Posted by traveler on October 22, 2000 at 00:48:30:
In Reply to: Re: strangelove posted by Strangelove on October 21, 2000 at 21:23:31:
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I would have preferred to not respond to your questions. I was content with my first post to you. However, i felt it was less than polite to not respond when you posted to me with a direct question. Look, perhaps i didn't need to be so harsh in my first post. As you know, some of us had a pretty good hashing out of the subject before and i did find myself frustrated by people that i believed to have extensive experience in mexico and dealing with those corrupt cops being basically told that they were wrong by people that have considerably less experience. It does piss me off when idiots tell people, that know what they are talking about that, they are wrong. It is entirely possible that when i read your thread, it touched off a bit of the frustration from that old conversation and i took a little of it out on you. If i did, or you feel like i did, i offer my sincere apology to you sir. Now for this latest post to me. I believe, that I may have angered you, and because of that you are having a knee jerk reaction to my position on the subject and that you are also reading much more into my posts than i have said. If you don't mind, i would like to cover a few points. Main Entry: hyp·o·crite As you can plainly see sir, I am quite capable of using a dictionary, so i do not require a vocabulary lesson from you. Since you did provide two options, i will tell you which one is closest to my "guiding principle" as you put it. Don't worry (not that you would), i am not a hypocrit. My point regarding such things as dealing with mexican cops is indeed simply a matter of convenience and practicality. Get in & get out safely and don't get fucked over in the process. As far as acting arrogantly? Hmmm... I thought i was rather humble in my response concerning mexican law. I stated that i am not an expert. The only thing that i can see you would be referring to as arrogant, is my black and white position regarding bribes. If you believe that someone is arrogant when they take a firm position on something without including room for grey area, then i think you and i have a different understanding of the meaning of the word arrogant. If you read arrogance simply from the tone of my posts, you would have to assume it is arrogance and not just frustration and someone with a strong opinion on something. So, apparently you have nothing i can see to base your accusation of my arrogance on. However, let me be honest with you. I may be a little arrogant. How about my "rules" not being "hollier" than yours? I wouldn't call them rules, but i can see how you might read my posts on the subject as containing rules. That is a minor thing and i won't bother contesting it. Think what you want. However, my opinion on mordida is not "hollier" than yours. It might just be right. Oh i can just see you steaming over that one, screaming subjectivity and all that. Slow down big guy. Before you blow a gasket, ask yourself some questions and try your best to be honest with yourself (if you want to that is). Why do so many less than experienced mexico adventurers pay mordida when they don't need to, and why do the old mexico hands generally not pay mordida when it isn't required? Why do the cops seek out mordida? Why do the cops not normally shake down street bums? In what circumstances do mexicans pay mordida and why do they pay? Well, i do not know much about you, so i don't know if you have the experience in mexico or the understanding of the culture to answer that last question honestly and correctly, but even if you are a new adventurer to mexico you should be able to answer the first ones with simple common sense. Please don't misunderstand my position on mordida. If one's goal were to clean up the corruption, then you would be entirely correct in saying never pay mordida. I am not out to clean up mexico. I did allude to that in the first sentence of my first post to you. I believe there is a time to pay mordida and a time not to. Mordida is required (or at least very helpful) in many circumstances in mexico and it isn't always having anything to do with cops. If i wanted to expedite a building permit for example, a little cash in someone's palm may go a long way toward motivating an underpaid and undermotivated person to help me. Of course, it works the same way in the U.S., but we don't call it mordida or bribe. We call it an "expediting fee". So my position isn't to never pay mordida, it is just to only pay mordida when it is needed. From what you told us, i don't think it was needed in your situation and i wouldn't have paid it. By the way, i have never paid mordida when cops have tried to shake me down for one. Regarding your 'second' point.... I would disagree with you if your claim is that 'the degree of urgency is subjective' in all circumstances. However, i will assume you meant that the degree of urgency was determined subjectively in the circumstance you were in. If that be the case, i agree with you. You came to a different conclusion about the situation than i did. In all fairness though, i was not there and you were, so it is difficult for me to understand the nuances of the situation. When i address this issue of mordida i am speaking in a general sense. You may also be entirely correct when you say that we have different ideas of "redhanded", but one of us may be wrong. You have been carrying on quite a dialog with other mongers regarding the legality of prostitution and your premise for paying appears to revolve around the notion that you broke the law and the cops were interested in enforcing it. In my less than qualified opinion you did break the law, but it is a law that is applied in a selective and temporal manner in the location you broke it. However, if you think the cops that shook you down were interested in enforcing the law, i disagree. If they wanted to enforce the law, you would be in jail and they would never have taken your money. They were only interested in shaking you down. As far as disagreeing with "almost everything" i say. OK. That's cool. Considering my background though, i might be right. In closing i would like to reiterate my apology to you if i slighted you, or you feel i did. If we were to ever run into eachother, i would happily buy you a couple of cold beers to make it up to you. You might not want to walk out of the club with me though, because i don't pay mordida when i don't have to. :) In light of your last post to me, i did feel the need to respond and clarify some things. Happy mongering to you sir!
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