So you want to work at an FKK?

Some observations, opinions and pointers.

I know a lot of girls that work at FKK’s quite well. They are not retards and they are not rocket scientists. If one has an IQ of 50 and the other of 120 then these girls are at around 85 on average. They are normal girls of normal intelligence, and some of them have ended up in a difficult situation and some are just lazy and find this easier than a real job. It all depends.

The following Statistics are based upon about 50 girls whose story I know well.

Very few girls are actual students. I know only one girl who is a full time student at a German institute of higher learning. I know one Bulgarian who has taken a semester off to get together enough money to finance 4 years of university (5000€). I haven’t seen her in a month so I hope she has gotten the money together. Otherwise I have to say that I have not even heard a lot of girls claim to be students. It is not really that typical a story here like in America at Strip Clubs.

I know 4 girls who used to be, or still are Nurses. Funny thing is one was my nurse when I was in the hospital a couple of years ago, then I see her working in a club. We recognized each other, it was strange, but I still booked her, and had her do all the things I would have liked to do to her during her nightshift when I was in the electric bed ;°). These girls say that as a fpart time nurse (the type of job that is most readily available they were earning between 850 and 1000€ a month, that is about 650€ after taxes. They do much better in FKK’s. The strange thing is all of these girls offer full service including CIM (one even swallows). They must know the risks, but they are up for a lot, so the risks must be reasonable.

The professions where the most girls come from is equally divided between hairdresser and cosmetician. I am not kidding. I know about 10 girls who have learned (apprenticeship) each of these. My first Provider was a hairdresser, and between that and Cosmetician it probably accounts for 40-50% of all providers. I know girls who have worked in these jobs for a while before coming to FKK’s, some who still work in them and some who just started the apprenticeship and switched to this job.

The other category where lot’s of girls come from is without an other wok experience or secondary education whatsoever. I would say that 14 girls fall into this category. Many started an apprenticeship and quit before it was over, some were just lazy and bored and never tried to get a real job. Some just hung out, some wrked at a restaurant or two, some worked as go-go dancers in clubs. These are the sort of girls that get into the job because it seems like lots of money for little work. Most of these girls stay in the job well beyond their prime because they cannot get anything else. Sometimes these are girls who have left their country for Germany and have not been able to get any other sort of job.

The rest fall into the miscellaneous category. I know an ex-secretary, some retail sales girls, one who learned to work at a supermarket in Poland, and a couple who had children at a young age and got caught up in life.

These girls are not dumb, but there are not a lot of Phd. Candidates doing the job either.

If your friend is very intelligent and looking for good deep conversation with the other girls between sessions she will probably be disappointed. Some of the girls are nice, some are world class bitches to the other girls. But most of the talk is about how they are doing today, whether there are any weird guests in the club and normal small talk, including where to buy cool stuff, and make-up tips and such.


What she can expect to earn…

Most decent looking girls have an average net income of between 200 and 300€ per day of working. If you hustle and offer a wide range of services you might be able to beat that, if you are very laid back it might be less, but most girls I know that work regularly pull this sort of cash. Being pretty much Tax Free it is not bad money, but you are not going to get rich off of it.

Remember one of the reasons we men like FKK’s so much is because it is really a great deal for us. We get fair and excellent service at a reasonable price. There are many settings and parts of the world where the sex is much more expensive, and where the girls even earn much more per session. Many of these girls do not earn as much total due to lack of traffic. That is one of the key things this girl needs to answer for herself. Does she want to offer a fair and decent service at a relatively low price and have quite a few (4-8) customers a day, or is she into working less often for more money per session.

If the girl legitimately likes sex and working as a sex provider and wants to offer customers DFK and BBBJ as standard, then she should go for it. People used to providing in other situations have trouble adjusting to this some times.


Where to work…..

The clubs advertise in the “Bild” and other tabloid type newspapers looking for girls. It is usually in the same section where they advertise for us men, in the bottom corner there is usually a “Hostesses Wanted” section. Here the top clubs have a small ad with a phone number. The numbers are the same telephone numbers listed on Kaleu’s Site though.

All the girls need is a legal status in Germany. If she has a UK passport she will be gladly accepted at any club. If hse is really moving to Germany for longer she might want to take another legitimate part time job to get her social insurance and health care covered. A simple job with 30 hours a month can cover this in most cases.

Now on to some explanations of the top clubs.

FKK World

This club is actually owned and run by the Hell’s Angels, but that is more of a positive than a negative. I have never heard either a customer nor a girl complain about any negative aspect of this. The girls are not seen as property, they are workers. I have never heard of any having to give freebies to people or the like. They are working super clean in this endeavour. The problems they had getting talent at the beginning shows that they are not involved in any human trafficking or other such stuff in this club. They rely on the legal ways in this club, and it led to a lack of women for at least the first two months. Everyone who has dealt with the club professionally has been impressed. The advertise heavily in the German Forums, and have hosted their partys which have been excellently organized. FKK’s are so successful because most of the negative aspects of prostitution are not apparent, and they are happy to follow this at World.

The girls pay the same entrance fee as the guys, 65€ a day, plus 15€ if they are sleeping there (if she lives further away and works multiple days). They keep 100% of the money they earn. The session includes BBBJ, DFK and Cum on Body is standard and costs 50€ for 30 minutes. Couch action is expected as well as sex in the movie theatre, in the whirlpool or on the lawn. If the girl has a problem with semi-public sex this is not a good club for her. Upcharge for CIM is 50€, anal is up to the girl, but upcharges range from 100-150€. A 2 Girl session is the same price, just per girl. Lesbian show is an additional 50€/girl. Each additional half hour is 50€, but the upcharges for extras are one time only. They also have champagne sales at this club, where the girl gets half the price of the bottle.

Good points: Excellent facilities, and a decent amount of daily traffic. The price structure is on the higher side, and if you sell the extras well you can make some good money. There also are not that many other working girls there for the size of the club, so there is not as much competition.

Bad Points: It is more a Giessen crowd than a Frankfurt crowd (more foreigners, less money). Traffic can be spotty. If the weather is good and on weekends it is full, some days it is slow. The daily rate is high and forces the girls to get more rooms to start earning money.

FKK Oase

The managers name is Michael or something else with M. I have met him and he is a nice guy, I just forgot the name. Lot’s of girls who have been working there for years, and seem happy with the setup. Know girls who have gone down to work for a couple of days and left again, but no complaints about the management.

Price structure is exactly the same as World. As is what is expected as a normal standard of service.

Good and bad points are the same too, other than that Oase gets more of the bigger money Frankfurt crowd, but also more American servicemen, who are into sport-fucking.

Schieferhof in Lichtenberg

This is the grand daddy of FKK’s. The owner is a nice old guy, and the management are women. Here the service level that is expected is high, and 2 customer complaints leads to dismissal. Recently a girl who had been working there for 4 months was asked to leave based on some internet complaints.

The girls pay 18€ a day and 13€ for sleeping over. The club is only open Monday to Friday. Now they have changed the cost structure and raised the entrance fee, but lowered the per session fee. Now the girls keep 100% of what they earn. Most of the girls who work here stay here. They do well. The crowd is older and very loyal. The girls have a lot of regulars and never complain about a lack of traffic. It gets full early and the girls have plenty to do, but you better like old guys.

Standard service includes DFK, BBBJ and CIM. You are expected to warm him up with kissing and a BJ on the couch, that doesn’t count to the time. A session costs 50€ and the time is basically as long as it takes. That means anything under 50 minutes counts as a half hour session. The girls are not paid after each session, rather when the guy leaves. The girls write down the session upstairs afterwards. If you are not into a high service level then this is not the club for you.


Planet Happy Garden

Don’t know the new manager, knew the old one (Tome) well (He is currently at Goldentime). But the people running this place are nice normal guys.

They have raised the WEEKLY price to 100€ a week, no matter how many days you work. Sleeping Over is included in the price. This means if you work 5 days a week you are averaging 20€ a day. Again this is much cheaper than the Frankfurt clubs, so it is at least one room less necessary.

Here there is not really a club standard, it is up to the girls, but a lack of service could lead to dismissal or lack of booking when it speaks itself around. Some girls don’t offer DFK. Virtually all do BBBJ. The weekly cost for the girls is lower and the cost for the men is less too.

Half hour sessions start at 25€. This is for a covered BJ with sex. Hardly any of the girls like this and most try and steer customers away from this option. BBBJ and sex is 50€ and this is seen as the standard session. Each additional half hour is 25€ extra. This leads more people to book longer, which I think is more pleasant for the girls (less sessions a day at higher value per session). Upcharges are cheaper too. CIM is 25€ and anal is 50€. Two girls is also just double the price, lesbo show 25€ extra each, more intense lesbo is 50€ each extra. It is up to the girl to decide what she offers and what not.

There is very good traffic in this club, with lots of regulars, especially from Holland and Belgium in addition to all the Germans. There are also a lot of girls, usually averaging 50 girls a night. Like all clubs they have some rules on the times you work. You have to show up by a certain time, and if you stay beyond a certain time you have to stay till closing and such. But in general in all clubs you are free to come and go as you please. They need the rules to ensure that there are enough girls when the customers are there.

On the negative side I sometimes see guys who hang out but do not session, but often enough all 24 rooms and huts are full so there must be some fucking going on. Girls here do just as well as in the Frankfurt clubs, they just have less pressure per day. Also in these clubs it is absolutely not allowed for the women to solicit the men, which is normal in Frankfurt Area.

Parksauna Wildenrath

Here the managers name is Felix. The other managers are Frank and someone whose name I just forgot. They are all about 35-40 and very normal down to earth guys. Here the pricing is the same as Happy Garden, except the weekly fee is still 75€. Here the general atmosphere is a little more laid back. The girls are not as aggressive in trying to make money as at the other clubs. Some girls do very well here with regulars who book them for hours (Sylvia is often booked for 3-5 hours in a block).

This place has less visitors than Happy Garden, but also much less women. Most girls who have worked both say they earn the same in both, but like the atmosphere for the girls better in wildenrath.

FKK Goldentime

Owners used to own Relax in Limburg and the manager is Tom who used to be at PHG for years. Generally a good atmosphere. Same service level as Happy Garden and Wildenrath, except they do not have the 25€ session. BBBJ is standard. Extra time is 25€ per half hour. Otherwise everything is similar to the two clubs above.

Here the girls pay 15€ a day including sleeping. If she only wants to work 3 days a week that means she only pays 45€. So the daily rate is basically nothing. First room and you are already in the black. That is what makes the Düsseldorf Area clubs a good deal.

There are a lot of other clubs, but I am running out of time and energy, so I will end it up.

If she has any more specific questions PM me and I can answer most of them. The other clubs I know the structure of are Cocoon, Tropicana, most of the Red Carpet clubs and a couple of others.

Hope this helps.

Peter

It is still interesting reading your updates Peter, your postings are essential reading for those visiting an FKK. Keep it up.

Thanks for the flowers.

I should have clarified that this was in response to someone who had a female friend who was moving to Germany and was wondering whether it would be a way to earn some extra money.

Peter

Peter:

Nice and unique information. Thanks.

One remark. You mention cum on body is part of the standard 50 Euros at FKK World. My information is that it is an extra 50 just like CIM. Was there a change in policy?

Peter29,

Nice information. It will be most helpful as I continue my research for my first Germany trip later this year.

Peter, you are THE expert around here on FKK clubs. In fact, I don't think I have ever read a post with such detail regarding the women who work in a brothel/bar/terma/etc for anywhere in the world. Most places are pretty much a mystery to the men who use them as to where the women really come from, how they got there, who runs the businesses, what the women actually make. I love this kind of back scene description. It makes the whole experience seem more real and fuller.

Sabio,

I am not 100% Sure on the Cum on Body thing. It is not really my thing, I like to come in the condom, which is included in the price everywhere.

I know that there has been discussion on this on German Boards, and I remember it being included at Oase and Atlantis. Better check with the girl ahead of time.

Otherwise I have to say that "behind the scenes" has always interested me. I had a close friend who was an active pimp in high school, and that was the first exposure I got to the scene. He explained in detail, where he found the girls, how he recruted them, how he got them hooked and how he turned them out. It was slightly appalling, but interesting nonetheless.

Once I got actively involved in the mongering scen 4 years ago I was in a moral quandry. I felt bad about fostering the demand for the sort of thing I knew from my high school friend. In a typical attempt at rationalisation I wanted to know which of the "bad" things associated with prostitution were really involved in the sort of mongering that I was partaking in.

the other thing I have to say is I am the sort of person that people tend to tell their deepest secrets to. I don't know why, but people I hardly know tell me the most intimate details of their lives. I don't know if this is a gift, but I got it. The same thing is with the girls. I have girls tell me about their pimps, their children, the performance of other customers and everything else you can imagine. They do not tell me this in a, "Help me get out of this" way. It is just to get it off their chest. Sort of like we use the forum. We cannot discuss our mongering with many of our friends, so we do it here on the net. I get the same thing from a lot of girls.

that is how I get all the info. I also use gained info to get more. If you know some things and you mention those, people often think you know the whole story and they will fill in the parts that you don't know, thinking it already belongs to your known info.

I can pretty much guarantee that the FKK scene is one of the most equitable set-ups for the working girls around. Pimps are not allowed on the premises of most of these clubs (They check on their girls by having various girls spy on each other, keeping him up to date on their daily earnings). But pimps are not necessary, if the girl wants to get themselves into that situation, then it is her thing (The pimps rarely intimidate with physical violence, it is usually just psychological stuff, love stuff). The girls are free to come and go as they please (within normal working time restrictions). There are no hidden fees or things of that nature. The girls also have to have their papers with them to get the job. this means the girls have their own passports and can leave the country at anytime. I mean there are some girls that get involved in strange schemes to gain legal status in Germany, and most of the Polish girls that have been there for years are married to some guy in Germany they rarely see. Many of these girls had to pay fees for this to happen, but most of these have been repaid and the girls are earning for themselves. these show husbands are often older men and they are paid between 5,000 and 10,000€ for the marriage. Then the girl is fully legal in Germany. Many then lend their legal papers to illegal girls who work a legitimate job in their name for the social and health insurance, and they get to keep the money.

It is an industry that always has some shady parts, but the current FKK scene is about as free of it as possible.

Peter

Is there no pimp who takes most of the girls' money? Do you know them well enough to be sure they really are independent workers and keep their money?

What about the Russian mafia? usually the prettiest girls with the best attitude come from Ukraine and other ex Sovjet countries.

Why would a US passport confer legal status to work in Germany?? Are FKK happy to employ aliens on tourist visa??

The pricing is also very interesting. Compare 100 $/Euro per shot (including admission) in a country where nobody makes less then 800 per month. That is 8 times is a monthly wage.

Now compare Brazil. R$ 200 per shot in a decent termas. Almost an entire monthly minimum wage of R$ 260. 1/8 th of 260 is aproximately 30, the price of my favorite cheapo places.

How come German prices are so low? it is almost worth travelling to Germany, instead of Brazil :-))

Brazil,

Some girls have pimps, some have real boyfriends who vrge on pimp, and many girls have nobody behind them. I consider the difference between pimp and boyfriend to be that pimps usually have more than one girl working for them, while boyfriends usually only have their girlfriend working. Some of those Boyfriends pressure the gils into it, others just happen into the job.

I'll us the story of the ex nurse of mine who works at a club. She used to earn 975€ a montha s a part time nurse. Now she tells me she earns about 400€ a day in one of the cheapest clubs I know. she makes this money because she offers all extras and goes for about 10 sessions a day.

She has a 4 year old daughter and a husband (but not the father). He is a music teacher (piano and Cello) and she works in the club 5 days a week. In the meantime they have enough money together for the down payment on a house and have just signed the mortgage papers for a 275K€ house. She pays her husband a portion of her (tax Free) club earnings so his income looks bigger for the bank.

Is this guy a pimp or a real boyfriend. This is the sort of situation that quite a few of these girls get into. Their boyfriend does not convince them to give it a try, sometimes they just do it to improvwe their life together.

Pimps are not necessary, and are not allowed in the clubs, but there still are some girls out there working for pimps. That will never be avoided. But the girls get all the money and leave the club with all the money they earn.

For the girls who did marry GERMANS for citizenship there is most definitely a couple of illicit people involved, but those people are looking for one time earning potential and don't want to have those liabilities on the books forever.

The clubs advertise in the newspaper looking for girls, they do not have groups of dubious mafia smuggling them in. That is more in the appartment style prostitution. These places are pretty tough to hide, they are big houses and everybody knows what they are. They usually are properly registered companies. They cannot risk having girls with illegal or no papers, or in dubious circumstances working for them. they are not going to tkae the risk of getting the whole thing shut down after the investment to buy and rebuild expensive houses.

The price is even more reasonable if you go for more than one session (as everybody does) because it lessens the entrance fee per session. I usually go for 3-4 sessions on a visit. Why is it reasonable, because the customers are local regulars, not tourists. If locals are going to be going onece a week or so the price has to be reasonable. The parking lots of these places are filled with Mercedes and BMW's and Porsches. the customers have money (there are also second tier clubs where more VW's are in the parking lots). They usually budget 200-300€ for an evening out, but that is for multiple sessions. I have met Dutch business men who go every friday night. It is their night out with the boys. They all have wives, but they don't know exactly where they go, but they leave work at 4pm on Friday, drive 120KM to the club, spend 4 hours there, session a coupe fo times and head home at about 10 or 11. They have been doing this every week for years.

Also the distribution of income in germany is more equitable than in the developing world. That means there are not super rich and super poor. In Brazil most of the clubs cater to the foreigners and the super rich locals. Here the clubs want as many of the locals as possible.

Also there are lots of German girls who work these clubs too. They can make a decent monthly wage working here, but will not be richer than all thers in their age and education bracket.

I want to head to Brazil at some time to have a comparison, but I have travelled to Easern Europe, and most parts of Asia, and Germany offers me the fairest and mosst consistent service at the best price.

Peter

Peter - I loved Atlantis: What is the true story behind their closing? It sounds like you might be the only one who knows for sure...

By the way, I'll be back to the Fkk's in mid-November.

As far as I have heard from all sides the newspaper articles in Germany are quite accurate.

Just like they got Al Capone, the tax authority was the main problem. They are convinced that the club withheld millions of dollars in taxes. There is some controversy what basis they are using to esgtimate their income.

On the day of the raid they completely sealed the club and made every guy there count out how much money they brought with them. They are trying to use this as the basis of what the club was turning over each day, and I think this is wrong. I generally bring 400€ to a club, but I budget about 200€ for a visit. If the tax Authority thinks my bringingn 400€ means I am going to spend 400€ then they are way off base. I think this will be tough to prove in the real case when it happens.

I Think the tax authority wants to make the club responsible for the entire turnover and the tax on that and not just on the entrance fee. If the club was trying to cheat on their taxes on the entrance fees, then they were just stupid. There are very well documented records how many men and women visited each day, and multiplying that by 65€ is easy. Again the D.A. is taking his time putting together a case.

The other big thing is the claim of human trafficking. I personally believe that is a tonne of BS. They have been pushing that for a long time, and I have been involved in a police blockade coming into Altenstadt looking for human traficking. I think these people are watching too much TV. I know girls who have come to Germany via Human traficking, but they are not going directly to a FKK. That is the way some of the appartments work, but the FKK's for the most part don't get into the direct recruitment of girls, they outsource that to concentrate on their core competencies.

they also found a prosecutable amount of Cocaine in the club, so that will cost the manager some guaranteed time in Jail.

What is also pretty much a given is that they paid of a police officer to tip them off to potential raids so they could get girls with questionable papers out of the place.

No one really knows how much of it is true, that will be up to the courts to decide.

Fact is the club will never reopen. Once thetown is against you you have no chance, just ask the people who lost millions opening Oase 2 in the Aachen area (which was opened all of 32 minutes) or the Relax in Limburg (who now opened the Golden Time around Düsseldorf). If the town tolerates you you have no problem running the club, once the town turns against you you have no chance.

There is specualtion that they used to pay off some member of the town council who they cut from the payroll, and then it all started falling apart.

When they had a town meeting a tonne of people showed up supporting the club, including the restaurants and hotels near the club as well as the security and service companies that were working for the club.

The town is against it now, the girls have found new places to work, and even the most die hard fans have found other clubs.

I liked Atlantis 3 years ago, but my 3 subsequent trips were disappointing. At soem point it had an amazing atmosphere, but in the last 2 years it was not so great.

Try World, Oase or Palace, or head to PHG, Goldentime or Wildenrath, you will not miss Atlantis for long.

Peter