Im going to Roarito Beach this next weekend with about 15 of my buddies for a friends bachelor party. The majority of the guys have never left Washington so its kind of a big deal for them.

I however could careless
"Tijuana are you freakin kidding me..."
Those were my inital thoughts when asked about the safety. However, the more I read the more Im starting to question (slightly). Has anyone been to Tijuana or Rosarito beach that can give me an update on the scens down there?

Others can speak to TJ issues (I avoid the place for reasons other than its safety), but some friends of mine were headed down to Rosarita for an annual surfing trip a few weeks ago and were pulled over and robbed at gunpoint by banditos. No one was hurt, but they lost everything, including their passports, so it was a clusterfuck.

Tijuana is safe unless you are in a drug cartel, police officer, govt official or military. Not much to worry about if you are an American tourist.

I have heard of a couple isolated incidents around Rosarito. I really think it is quite safe. Take the toll road to your hotel and you should be fine.

If I listened to the media about Phoenix kidnappings and Chicago murders I would be afraid to go to either. However, I live in Phoenix and visit my family in Chicago always without incident.

Roberto, do Chicago cops typically shake down visitors before leaving the city?

I can't speak to Rosarito but TJ is as peaceful and free of police shakedowns as it has been in many years. There are even stories in the SoCal press about a revival in tourism, including the return of spring breakers this year to the Baja beaches, including Rosarito.

The hyper-publicized crime picture was always overwhelmingly nothing more than internecine warfare between cartel factions and cartels and the police. After some early public shootouts in which amazingly only a few innocent bystanders were injured, the killings became surgical and dramatic and terrifying. TJ would wake up each morning to find mutilated bodies strategically displayed and carrying messages. But the bottom line was all the victims were drug warriors themselves - not tourists or any kind of innocents. So even at the peak of the terror, the bottom line is to say you won't go to TJ for fear of crime is like saying you won't go to L.A. because the Bloods are killing Crips and the Florencia 13 are at war with 18th Street Gang, etc. etc. etc. Unfortunately, and you can believe that this is a sad fact, in L.A. and some other larger cities, the way the violence is committed leads to more innocent bystanders being victimized than in Mexico and TJ in particular.

A few months ago the authorities captured the most notorious of the cartel warlords from TJ - a lovely fellow known as El Teo. This animal set the tone for the terror - killing and torturing his rivals in ways that were not commonly employed before - the decapitations, dissolving bodies in acid, etc. He tried to intimidate with these methods, and it resulted in raising the bar higher on terror killings.

Since Teo has been in custody, the killings have not stopped, but the arc of terror has quieted considerably. It's back to old school gang warfare - and that will never stop so long as drugs are illegal in the U.S. and Mexico remains poor enough to spawn literally millions of desperate young men over generations who have no hope for anything in their lives beyond abject poverty and will never be deterred from seeking wealth and power in the narco business by threats of death and incarceration.

But again, bottom line right now in TJ is a sense of calm like we haven't seen there in years.

Of course if you venture into the zona norte you will need to be alert as you would when spending time in the red light district of any U.S. city. But overall there is hardly any street crime within the major activity districts of the zona, downtown TJ and Zona Rio - that is beyond old fat gringo whoremongers walking around in shorts on chilly nights. Most of the handful of street punks who may be on the prowl are not armed and put their victims to sleep via chokeholds, empty pockets and scram. Unfortunately the future looks like TJ will be more like the USA as the high volume of firearms that have been smuggled to the cartels from the U.S. are slowly trickling down to the street punk level. Still most are reluctant to use them as they are a guarantee of long stays in the carcel and the cops constantly search and harass suspicious locals on the street without any steenking probable cause. For now, you are still more likely to be robbed at gunpoint in NYC, L.A., Chicago, D.C., Philly, Memphis and Peoria than in Tijuana.

Police shakedowns have been rare over the last 2.5 years following the worst year of all for shakedowns, 2007. A new mayor and police chief came in on New Years Eve 2008 and simply found a formula....for now. I would never expect the problem to not return at some point, but for now, it is not perfect, but police problems are rare where they once were common.

thanks for the update -- my last time in TJ was 2.5 years ago (late 2007), thus unaware of the major changes!

(Message edited by donmarco on May 16, 2010)

Wow Erip thanks for the detailed report that was a little more than I expected so thank you.

Now onto the more pressing matter..Because of the tourist "drought" has the talent gone down in Adelitas and HK? I was never a fan of HK, but in looking at their website they seem to be stepping their game a little but the talent still looks a little "iffy"

Is Adelitas still the place to go?

Adelitas is still full of plastic chicas, but HK has been number 1 for a couple of years. Personally I can not stand either.

So Sampson which ones do you go to..? Obviously TJ is not the ideal mongering destination...

Sampson give me the scoop bro..Have you ever been to the Luxor massage parlor? I went there about 2 years ago and those gilrs were actually pretty hot.

I think Sampson gets free massages now. He is a highly esteemed TJ icon.

Joseph - I like the "666" on your name!

I started avoiding TJ perhaps 15 years ago, long before the increase in the drug wars, and so forth. There were three reasons: (1) after visiting other mongering locations, I lost much desire for TJ sessions;(2) TJ is the only place I got mugged although they didn't get anything from me; and (3) I detested the crooked cops, and with good reason.

During my visits, I saw some men robbed (sometimes in daylight) via the old chokehold (one instance that paticularly bothered me was an old man who then fell down on the ground and didn't get up), but one night I was walking in the Zona when someone came up from behind and put me in a chokehold. An accomplice then tried to get the wallet out of my front pocket. Somehow, while barely staying conscious, I kept kicking and after about 30 seconds something must have happened because they ran away without getting anything.

There was also the time I brought my car across the border, was going exactly at the speed limit while Mexicans were speeding past me, and then got pulled over by a couple of crooks with badges who claimed I was speeding and wanted me to leave my relatively new car on the side of the road while they brought me to the police station. Yeah, right. Paid them off as there was no real choice, but this was just some more TJ/Mexican shit I didn't want to further subject myself to.

Since I knew these things--the attempted mugging and the crooks with badges--weren't isolated occurences, and since I wasn't enamored with the TJ sex anyway, I eventually gave up on the place. Even when I need to go to San Diego, I don't bother crossing the border.

Although the reports above suggest it may be better safety-wise and crooks-with-badges-wise than at the height of the drug wars, how does current TJ compare to around 15-20 years ago in these respects?

(Message edited by LAguy on May 16, 2010)

Joseph...your question came along around the time I compose my annual "State of TJ Safety" lecture.

Unless you are a TJ veteran or speak decent conversational spanish, do not pay attention to any of mi amigo Sampson's pastimes or comments regarding which bars to frequent. I guarantee you absolutely that you would be highly alarmed if you progressed even 5 feet deep inside any of the bars that Sampson prefers. He is not even working the in between zone, he is planting at the very bottom. But he's not a monger either - he's a TJ resident with excellent spanish though spoken with a hilarious Indiana accent. His program in the zona couldn't be more different from yours.

So if you and your friends are newbies or relative newbies and spanish is limited, HK, AB and even CC at night are really the only bars you will be very happy in. Sampson is right that AB is now an established no. 2 to HK, but definitely still worth shopping in. Generally the service at AB is the worst in TJ (other than SGs), but there are still chicas there who are worth $60 just to be naked with for 30 minutes.

All TJ bars are up and down from day to day much less month to month. Generally though, HK is pretty strong right now in selection and strong electric fun vibe.

The in between zone are bars like Tropical and Las Chaveles. Chicas at these bars mostly go to the hotel but don't look for high volume. They want to be romanced or at least part of a party in the bar which involves dancing and lots of expensive ficha drink purchases. So if you have enough spanish and like to dance and like to entertain a chica at your table and drink with her, you will find excellent opportunities at these bars - and much better service as a general rule than you would expect at the gringo havens. Cheap TLNs, girlfriends and wives are also available from these bars.

Tropical had been my favorite bar for years, but recently it has not been great the limited amount of time I've been able to pass time there. Last weekend I was in TJ and Las Chavelas was fucking incredible. Over the years it has righteously been the butt of jokes - referred to as "Las Chubbies" for its infamous selection of fuglies and grandmas, and the fuglies and grandmas are moving over to the bottom end bars that Sampson hangs out in. But now that its remodeling is complete, they are working hard to change the chica demographic. Last weekend it was amazingly full of hotties and spinners and I never found my way to HK, AB or CC. Took one young spinner upstairs for a top notch short term session. I may post a TR about the weekend with some more details about the surprising new scene I've been finding at LC from time to time.

But bottom line is that if you are going to be part of a group of gringos without TJ experience and don't speak spanish, focus on HK, AB and check out CC after 9PM.

Laguy:

Although the reports above suggest it may be better safety-wise and crooks-with-badges-wise than at the height of the drug wars, how does current TJ compare to around 15-20 years ago in these respects?

Sorry I missed your pertinent question while posting my last. I can speak to 14 years ago, but not 20.

When I started going to TJ in 1996, the main fear was the street chokehold specialists. They were said to be a constant threat and I had a few amigos who were victimized, but I never had a problem personally. I was however victimized by a tranny SG pickpocket on my very first walk through the zona - but he got only a few one dollar bills. So that was another feature of the zona in those days - both the hill on Constitucion and the block of Ninos Heroes between Calle Coahuila and the alley were thick with gender confused individuals who would put one hand on your balls and the other in your pocket. I knew exactly what was happening but the guy was large and hard to push off. From that point on I simply presented a stiff arm and a warning anytime a tranny on the street tried to get near me.

But a few years later the cops opened a substation in the heart of the tranny pickpocket concentration on Constitucion. They decided they'd monopolize the larceny in the zona and pretty soon the tranny's and the regular chokehold rateros all but disappeared. Thievery in the zona was now taken over by cops (i.e. rateros with badges). As far as I was concerned, this was a deplorable development. You could always avoid rateros by choice of route and street smarts, but when you were confronted by "color of authority", you had to deal with the situation.

Most TJ regulars with the great assistance of CH and its ancestor TJ Boards learned how to deal with the cops without having to submit to their shakedowns - though many thought the inherent delays in the process were more than they'd like to deal with and just paid the mordidas to walk away ASAP. The level of police misbehavior was up and down year to year - at times not real bad and other times unbearable. 2007 was the worst with institutionalized interceptions of tourists exiting taxis at the border by the cops (as Don Marco referenced), and vastly increased shakedown attempts everywhere. I myself probably endured 8 police contacts that year, though I never paid a single peso to get out of the situations. The worst was being kidnapped out of a cab by police and then driven around for 2 hours in the middle of the night with them trying to extract a bribe. However, I had them all ready to commit suicide giving them 2 hours of respectful lectures on the role of police v. judges, and insisting that I would pay a penalty only pursuant to a judge's conviction of my guilt.

But still, the situation was unbearable and were I not deeply involved with a developing harem of special chicas delivering max good times when I was in town, I would have wanted to quit TJ during this time.

The incoming mayor promised this police rampage would end on inauguration day, and damn if he wasn't successful. He will be out of office after this year so we will hold our breath to see where it goes from here.

15 years ago a single powerful cartel controlled the cross border drug trafficking in Baja California - the Arellano-Felix cartel. Drug related violence was usually limited to cartel aligned cops fighting honest cops. The drug war as we know it now had not created a stir. But eventually there were factions in A-F that led to some massacres, and then the arrest/killing of the highest ranking A-F brothers who commanded the cartel. With the heads cut off, the lower ranking soldiers and commanders fought for control and against other cartels which flew around the bloodied A-F cartel like buzzards. It was ON! The new federal president declared a war like never before and that's what he got - the bloody mess of the last several years. It still rages with great brutality in further east Mexican states - especially Juarez in Estado Chihuahua, but TJ is pacified as to the level of brutality, and of course the drugs still pass through the border.

So here's the scorecard of now v. 14 years ago:

Cops - Much less threat than years past - for now;
Rateros - Not a significant threat now, a huge threat in 1996
Cartel Violence - Continues but with less terror tactics than prior years. Doesn't touch tourists or sex tourists. Was virtually invisible in 1996.
Chicas - Not as many hotties overall IMO as 4-5 years ago, but incredibly more lookers now than in 1996.

One other factor: Revo was a fully operational 2nd red light district in 1996 though full of scams and gender confusion. Revo today is all but completely dead. I used to enjoy both playgrounds as I learned to navigate the scams in the Revo clubs. Sorry to say now that it is the zona or a burgeoning escort scene right now - no more crazy nights on Revo.

I haven't been to TJ in quite some time even though I've been to San Diego a bunch of times since my last visit. I'll probably hop the fence again one day - especially if the cops continue to behave themselves. But, it won't be anytime soon. In fact, I think my last visit to Mexico was probably in 2005 and that would have been Agua Prieta I think.

Very interesting post Erip. Thanks!

Don Marco, Chicago cops do not shakedown visitors to the city. They can be corrupt and assholes but not for that reason. I used to have some classmates that would go down to the city to buy dope and they would tell me tales of the police kicking their ass.

Joseph666: I am not much on Luxor either.

I like more of the fun girls. If you are into looks only the places you mentioned will have plenty of girls that look nice in their light.

I prefer Delicias, Karla's Place, La Valentina, La Gloria, Playboy, Las Chavelas, La Botana, and Tropical Bar. If you are not in TJ much I would say Las Chavelas, Tropical Bar, and La Valentina would probably meet your comfort level.

But you have to understand that Sampson goes to TJ to drink and recruit girls, not to fuck. All the bars he mentions are fun bars though and diamonds in the rough galore...many even recruited to work at Hong Kong.

US cops don't shake you down like Mexican cops but a lifetime of experience has has taught me that almost any encounter with a cop in the US is in the long run likely to cost me many times more money than any encounter with a Mexican cop.

Now if the hookers would just give semi-decent service I'd be in TJ every other day, corrupt police and rateros or not. Alas I don't go to TJ much any more.

If I actually did the crime, I love the system of paying for it. I hate the long-term consequences of getting arrested in the U.S. They can last a lifetime. I was told that arrests fall off my FBI file at age 99.

But, for the non-criminal members of this board, I think we prefer US cops to Mexican cops.

Roberto..FBI file...little weird, lotta questions..

Metal

Thanks Bro.. My other screen name is maynordj (Maynard James Keenan "TOOL") Im sure you'll appreciate that.

Erip

Thank you so much for all the info I really appreciate it.

Erip (or anyone) have you ever been to Rosarito?
Im trying to create an image in my head about what the talent is going to be like. I REALLY hope that its not dry down there..

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also We got 2 penthouse suites at the new Rosarito Condo Hotel and would be happy to have you there Erip.
If anyone else would like to come please PM me for details. You just have to be able to put up with a bunch of Italian meatheads. Just picture The Jersey Shore ...in Tijuana

I love fake tits
J666

How far are you guys traveling? If you're getting on a plane, there are about 500 better locations to go to than TJ/Ensenada/Rosarito.

Let me clarify. To work in the securities industry they run a thorough FBI background check on all brokers before they decide to license you once you have passed your exams. I got my licenses but it was a bitch just having some misdemeanors for fake id, etc. I had several arrests in college between 92-96 and they never go away on an FBI background check which is what they use. At each of my 3 financial employers it created a big problem and held up my licenses. All 3 nearly fired me and I was even up front about it. That is how strict they are. I was placed on heightened supervision at each employer and even denied a corporate card. I just chose the wrong industry for a person that made several mistakes in my youth.

Also, they ran my background for my concealed weapons permit but no problems. I have no felonies nor misdemeanor domestic violence convictions so I got my permit.

Cat,

We're just going to TJ 1 night and Rosarito for 2 nights and then heading back to San D.
I am the world traveler in my crew. None of the other guys have really been out of Seattle THAT on top of the fact that most of them are broke AND cheap so ...not a lot of resources to work with ;)

Its my best friends bachelor party and everybody wanted to go to Vegas but thats such a cliche.. so I thought I would shake it up a bit and instead of getting raped for US P4P prices Id rather get twice as much for half as much..

It was originally going to be just the groomsmen and I was going to use some FF miles and take everyone to CR (which is a tropical TJ) but then we decided to just keep it local and involve the crew.

Anyway still lookin for some tips or opinions on Rosarito Women/Venues/Experiences...etc

Roberto..

Im not even going to read your reply.. to be frank im disgusted and ashamed...jk no worries ;)

(Message edited by joseph666 on May 17, 2010)

I'm beginning to think we need a thread named "Explain Yourself Please." Maybe Cat can be the friendly moderator. LOL

(Message edited by LAguy on May 17, 2010)

I would just go to Vancouver, the mongering is better there than in Rosarito and better than TJ as well. Why fly to San Diego just to go to TJ, why drive all that way either?

My rule is the same as always - if, for non-mongering reasons, you find yourself in San Diego or even in Orange/Riverside/LA and you have a spare afternoon/evening, then sure, hop the fence and have at it. If you live in SoCal, then hop the fence. If you don't live in SoCal and are traveling just for fun, 100% if you're getting on a plane and pretty much any road trips longer than Fresno, then you're going to the wrong place. If it's a dozen guys who've never been anywhere, have no cash and no jack about mongering, then Vegas is the place to go. Going all the way to San Diego and then into Mexico is a gigantic waste of time and effort.

LA, I would moderate that thread, unfortunately some admin on the board deleted my legitimate attempts to clarify the question that the guy asked a few weeks back on "how do I get my girl an ID and does she need a passport to go to a foreign country" thread. I make zero assumptions at this point that logic and/or intelligence will be used in the formation of mongering plans.

Here's an example: I was sitting in Monte Carlo last month and a new guy entered the boite. He sat down next to me and asked if I spoke English, I made the mistake of saying "yes". The conversation was highly irritating - "man, these girls are taller than I expected". I guess the guy neglected to look at their feet to see that they were all wearing 6-inch putapumps but hey, that's ok. Then, after a series of increasingly stupid questions, when he asked me "how many Russian girls work in the termas", in lieu of beating him senseless, I just got up and walked to the other side of the boite.

Cat: Do you have any recent information on Vancouver and/or Victoria? It used to be that Victoria was the better mongering place to go (or, at least that is what I was led to believe), but that was sometime ago and my information (as well as that on this board) is not current.

My recollection though is that Victoria at least was primarily incall apartment/houses and escorts. Not really suitable for a bachelor party. On the other hand I believe Vancouver had some strip clubs, although I'm not sure what was (or is) available at them.

If you have any information about any of this, perhaps you could post it in the Vancouver or Victoria sections so I'm not responsible for hijacking this thread, anymore than I just did .

(Message edited by laguy on May 17, 2010)

Joseph, thanks for the invite but I won't be able to make it down this weekend. And after that "Jersey Shore" comparison, don't want to be anywhere near your boys anyway - and I lived in Joisey before relocating to L.A.!

I don't know shit about Rosarito - only TJ and Ensenada as far as the Baja Coast goes. I do know that it is NOT a mongering destination - there's a couple of strip clubs and you could order escorts from the TJ agencies, but don't expect much in the way of local P4P action. I have played the dating game in Rosarito - bringing chicas there from TJ and L.A., but never hunted fresh panocha down there. Years ago I hung out with a chica in TJ who loved to go to a great multi-level dance club called "Iggy's" in Rosarito. Don't even know if it is still there given the economic hard times of recent years, but worth visiting if your boys want to try flexing their muscles for the local chicas and any SoCal chicas who may trickle down these days. As I mentioned, they had a good spring break for the first time in years, but don't know if there's much still going on post-spring break like in years past. If you get bored, you're only a $15-20 taxi ride from the zona norte. I think your crew could probably have their interest kept up in HK alone over several nights. I'm getting the feeling more and more that HK is the place you want to focus on, with side trips to AB and walks up and down the SG alley.

If they haven't been to an open flesh market before, your amigos' eyes will be popping out of their heads cruising the streets of the TJ zona given the high number of knock out adorable young SGs lining the streets these days. Beware though, alluring these chicas may be, but the service they offer is pretty lame in general. But for the cost of a decent lunch out in the U.S., the crew may find them to be a worthwhile investment. I don't want to get into a primer on TJ mongering, but at the very least make sure you guys negotiate every detail with SGs before taking them up - fundamental stuff like their agreement to get fully naked. That is considered an "extra" in SG culture. Also IMO you get a much better experience with SGs if you offer more money for a longer session - gets them out of their standard "get 'em in, get 'em off, get 'em out" rhythms. Bar girls are a whole different culture and overall a better one at a higher price.

Bottom line is have fun but don't let anybody act stupid on the booze outside your hotel rooms!

I was unpleasantly reminded of how dangerous TJ is yesterday. I posted the story in the general message board section.

Maverick

where is this general message board you speak of?

Click Homebase (left side of your screen; vertical menu), then Mexico under the Chat Board.

Erip and Sampson
Thanks for putting my mind at ease that even though HK is supposedly #1 that AB still has a fair share of my much desired plastic breasted hotties to take upstairs.

Maxi,

I say HK is #1 because it is the busiest bar in Zona Norte by far. It is not my personal taste as I don't like either one as I had mentioned before.

When I get back from my 7th trip to The Philippines, I think I will go to TJ once again. Haven't been there since late 2006. Hong Kong bar per Radiohead and a few others reports seems to be super kewl right now...

Metal
That would be Kewl
It has been a long time indeed.
I would love to join you and chat about your adventures.