My fellow mongers...
I discovered the Zona late last year around November and was in heaven. I am 46, balding, and not the greatest looking guy in the world. So the zona was like a new life for me and I set out to do every trophy I could do as a daytime monger in AB. At first I was only going down about once a month and was having a great time with most of my encounters. Eventually, my visits were happening more often and my roaming included many of the hottie dancers. I was an occasional repeater on days when I was in a hurry and knew I could get a GFE form a particular girl. Then I met this very pretty girl (23yo) with an average body and we had a great time together. I soon found myself seeing her about once a week, buying her gifts, taking her to lunch etc... needless to say the other half on this side of the border is starting to seriously question our bank balance. But the real problem is the FAV. I truly like her and she treats me wonderful, but I want to go back to fucking any girl I please, and lately, there have been some beautiful one's in AB on Thursdays (my normal visit day). Instead what I end up doing is seeing the FAV, have a great session with her and then I seek out an SG to satisfy my craving for variety. The FAV has already started calling me her novio (even though she knows I am married)and doesn't want me doing other girls. From where she stands (outside of HC) she sees me as soon as I walk in the door and watches me like a hawk until I get over to her. If I wanted this type of relationship I would not have wondered from the one I am in on this side of the border. Although she calls me her novio I am not stupid to think that I am more than a customer to her, but on the same token, I don't want to cause any problems either. I just want to go back to doing anyone and everyone. Jees... I haven't even had a chance to do Tania yet. And I REALLY want to! Any suggestions from my fellow mongers? Or am I just screwed?

Oldsailor

Oldsailor
Instead of treating your chica like a favorita, treat her like a sex slave. With sex slaves, I pick any chica I want, in front of them, I do not flirt with then, just grab them whenever I feel like I need a sure thing, you don't have to buy them drinks, just kiss them while standing.
If you treat your chica like a fav, then you should not pick chicas in front of her.
Next time she calls you her novia, just tell her you have no novia.

Oldsailor:
Welcome to the club. Don't ask me how it happens, it just does. This stuff about being a "novio", they all do that. They prolly think it's the status that we want. I, on the other hand, introduce my friend to the guy friends I take to the club as "my friend" (mi amiga). There's prolly more not said than said and the roles are assumed and before you know it everything is going 100 mph and you're hanging on for dear life. If this is not what you want, then be very sincere with her (meet her outside the club, it would be more appropriate) and let her know what you want to do. I'll caution you, these girls are very vindictive and will do stupid things on account of something like this. I'm telling you from experience. I think the best analogy of how these girls operate was told to me by a male club employee one night, " these girls don't love anyone, they love money". We, the less experienced in the street ways of a working girl, think they are jealous, they're not, they're greedy.
I could go on and on with stories of similar situations. Be sincere with yourself and her and you'll be alright. I have always considered the girl I know to be two different people, 1) a nice, petite, beautiful latina girl with so many nice attributes it would be impossible to list them all, 2) a vicious, hot tempered, greedy person trying to make it in life.
Good luck!

If I were to find myself habitually in these sorts of situations, I might start to wonder what it was about ME that brought about that sort of behavior, and that sort of relationship. I know that I, personally, tend to "let the chips fall" rather than actually pro-actively seeking the company of those people who I might most wish to be around. It sounds like maybe there's a hint of that in this pseudo-relationship, too, in that she wasn't exactly your personal preference physically but you "ended up" with her anyway; and emotionally, although she wants something you don't want (or is that financially?), you find you've again "ended up" in that situation.

I've been trying to learn for a while now, with providers and with civilians, how to do more of (a) knowing what I want and (b) saying it, or implying it, or acting like I deserve it, or somehow going about getting it. I don't mean we all have to be vindictive Machiavellians about the whole mess, but I do believe that girls working in Tijuana are probably a heckuvalot more scheming than most of us give them credit for. Deciding what we want, our own selves, and then seeking it, is probably the best path. It provides a type of enlightened self-interest, and a great deal more self-defense.

So in specific, maybe you just need to realize that there's some kind of responsiveness in you, that answers to the demands of others. Either realize that you value that part of yourself, and thereby admit that you've gotten yourself into exactly what you're asking for and you're going to revel in it; or decide that you don't value that part, and work bit by bit to move away from it. What DO you want with this chica? Relationship? Just good sex? Great GFE sex for a low price, but no emotional hang-ups? Make up your mind on which thing it is, realize that you have a right to making trade-offs in the direction of attaining that sort of thing, and then start to bring that thing about.

Good luck. I don't mean to be on your case about this at all. I totally sympathize. In civilian life, I often find myself in similar situations. I'm not married (thank God! heh) but part of that is because I haven't ever ended up dating a woman that I was actually turned on by. At least I had the good sense (and good for me!) not to STAY in a permanent bond with someone I wasn't attracted to ... but I did have the bad sense to get involved initially with several people in arrangements I didn't really want. That's because the people I dated, were the initiators, and I was just a milquetoast wiffly-waffly "ok, I'll do what you want" type of loser. It didn't work for me.

It's taken me a great deal of soul-searching to start to ADMIT that there's a level of "getting what I want" that I actually have a RIGHT to, in this life. I guess I got an excess dose of Protestant Work Ethic and not enough of Mediterranean Catholic Loving Life, or something. It's probably also genetic -- my dad is a "by the books only" type of guy, which essentially means he never takes advantage of any windfall, and he never thinks (like me) he (or his child) has a right to rewards. We're just supposed to live in misery -- that was the message. Well, you see how it can seep through, in subtle ways, and color your own approach to your own goals and goal-seeking?

I'll leave off, now.

Oh, wait, one more point. I agree, that most providers are probably a lot more canny, and greedy, than we generally give them credit for. But they are also a lot more vulnerable, and needy ... it's an odd combination. That can lead to some strange double-messages, among other things.

Book guy,

You're over analyzing. It's not that complicated. Simply said we usually find what we are looking for.


Old Sailor,

Whether or not you want to admit it, you are where you are cuz you want to be. Most of us have been through it (the single guys anyway, I think the married guys find it easier to not focus on one girl too much).

How to get out of it? Buy other girls drinks and let her see you sitting with them. Don't flaunt it, but don't go out of your way to hide it either. She might get pissed, depends on how much you've sworn your monogamous love for her (and I know you have). Eventually it'll tone down to dirty looks, then she'll just ignore you. You might have to write her off unless it's a really slow night.

You probably just enjoyed the vibe of having a person jealous and possessive about you, made you feel wanted. You created the situation and are probably cultivating it. If you are honest about wanting to get out of it (and I'm not sure you are, I think part of you is getting off on saying "gee, this chica digs me so much she's jealous" and bragging about it to all the other guys on the site) it's easier than shit. The only hard part is dealing with whether or not you really want out.

I've heard it all now.

A guy cheating on his wife is too afraid to cheat on the chica he's cheating on his wife with!
(Say that fast five times).

"Eventually it'll tone down to dirty looks, then she'll just ignore you."

Nah. Red, I don't believe you.


Hey book guy, my therapist is out of town.
Do you have any openings for next wednesday?

OLDSAILOR...I WILL MAKE IT SIMPLE FOR YOU FROM THE MONGERING SIDE OF IT. JUST DO WHAT YOUR FEELINGS CALL FOR and do what you come down here in the first place for. Sounded like you wanted to go back to bag "anyone and everyone". Rock on!!! Do that and see if she still calls you novio and bags you for free. If she's not...screw her. I have 4 girls from both bars CC&AB that call me their amigo especiale/novio eventhough they know I bagged other chicks besides them when my horny soul called for it. One recently called me a "puto" and just gave up on me...screw her. The other three still craw in my bed at night for free. Glucks to your confusion lil' soul.

Rock on,
Sakebomb

Another take on the subject that works!I had an amiga especial @ AB.A very popular sweetheart of a lady.Before she started with the "stuff",I told her It hurt me to much to see her go up with other guys,which it kinda did,and Ineeded to move on.She apreciated my honesty,we still always say hello,flirt a bit,and on a real special occasion I take her to the room.Works great!No problems.I do all the chicas I want @AB..she does her job.And I always assure her she has a special place in my heart...give it a try...tell them how you feel if you have feelings and enjoy the best of both worlds.

My .02 on the matter once again.
There are basically two ways out; 1) Crash and burn, 2) the diplomatic (gentlemanly) way.

I once asked my friend what would happen if she saw (or heard) of me buying another girl drinks or better (table dance/vip/etc). She said it would be all over. That's something I've kept as the cyanide pill for this relationship. The rest of the girls in this club where my friend works basically stay away from me. I once commented to my friend that I went in there on a night when she did not work (which she did not appreciate at all) and saw this at work. I told her that her peers were either afraid of her or respected her greatly. She said it was respect. My friend has a sister that works at the same club as she does. Sometimes I stroll in and sit and look around for my friend, if she's busy or stepped out, the sister will come and sit with me until my friend appears (or until the sister hooks a client). I think the sister does this as a method of protecting the sisters' (my friends') interest (me). My friend (however) is very jealous (greedy, etc) when this happens and queries me at great length about if I bought her sister anything, what we talked about, etc. . This even happens when I talk to the sister outside of their workplace. Who knows?
The thing we all (most of us anyway) need to remember is that this is kind of like a spectator sport, the guys that sit in the bleacher area do not have the same point of view (or stake) as the team players. These girls are making a living at this (and most are doing quite well) the mongers are out to get jollies or staisfy some void in their life somehow.
All these girls know they have a limited amount of time to do this (until their beauty wears out) and need to grab all they can while they're still hot (ie novios gifts, free meals, etc).
The money is the first thing that upsets the possibility of this being a normal relationship. How far do you think you would get with one of these girls if you had no money, gifts, etc ?
If any one has a cure all method, please tell me.

Nogi The sister seems interesting. Crash & Burn with her!

Fellow Mongers...

Boy.. the advice gives me a broad spectrum of options and I appreciate all of you for you opinion. Even Book-guys psycho-analysis. Are you a shrink? And San Puto's tounge twister about the married guy cheating on his wife and (long story there, but book-guy would analyze it), and afraid to cheat on his FAV is pretty good. All this being said, my biggest problem about myself is that I luv to fuck beautiful women, but I am too nice of a guy. If a girl treats me right, shows me a great time (as my FAV has), then I go out of my way to help her and return the same treatment. Its not in my personality to treat a women like a whore/slave. I buy her things for her apartment, clothes, birthday presents etc... plus the fact that this girl is 23.. beautiful and fucks and sucks my brains out when I am with her. Do I have feelings for her? Sure, she has treated me well. Do I luv her? No. Do I want to do other women? Hell yes. Its just the nice guy part of me wants to continue to help her out. The preverbial "I want my cake and eat it too". I will be seeing her for lunch tommorrow and will probably end up with in a heated session upstairs. Then down the alley for my SG variety. I make sure I do a different girl each time to avoid getting too friendly with them. That's all I need! But then again, Guadalupe's ass sure looks good from behind! Will have to see how things play out. I do know that I have been in the zona way too many time over the last month and I need to cut back for my bank accounts well being. I think after tommorrow I will try to stay away for about a month and re-group. But then again I start reading these post and I start thinking with my third brain. Thanks for the advice my fellow mongers.

Oldsailor

Funny ... I thought my post was the LEAST analytical of the lot ...

Anyway: remember the dichotomy. "Ended up doing something" versus "Decided to go out and make something happen."

(Just makin' it simple, fer some of ya.)

;)

The way I handled this was to take mine to lunch and explain that I still loved her and wanted to continue seeing her but that I also wanted to do other chica's as well. WHY? SHE ASKED.Variety, I said. I NEED it. This she would not go for, and it ended the relationship, but I was prepared for it to end. You know and they know, men are like dogs, mine tell me that all the time, they expect you to stray. I told this one I didn't have feeling for the others but it didn't matter to her, deal breaker. So if you do this be prepared. BTW, I see her still, she told me recently to call her, she misses me and still loves me. Thats fine, I love her to, I also love my wife and the other 30 plus chica's I have been banging every week for the past year as well.

Ain't love grand ?

694me:
Oh, don't think that has not crossed my mind. And it was not a self induced thought either. My friends third degree about what I do with her sister actually caused me to take a second look at the sister. She's not half bad. ;)
Senorpanocha: That part of men are like dogs that you left out is that besides straying, we won't be half interested in another bone until we see some other dog go for it. It's natural.

Repost from "the old days"...

1) The 'ol "duck and cover" approach. The key is "to see them, before they see you". The only problem with this approach is when you've got 4 or 5 of the cunts trying to hunt you down - they will sneak up on you from all kinds of angles. Peering around the wall near the men's bathroom helps - you can duck into the Men's room if you see one 'acomin

2) The 'ol "hide you face in your beer" approach. Avoid eye contact at any cost. Hopefully they won't remember your profile. Stay well-hunched over. A big jacket helps with this technique(this technique is usually useless in the summer).

3) The 'ol "stay on your bicycle" approach. Keep moving - that's the ticket. Problem is - I'm getting too old for this approach.

4) The 'ol "no mas dinero" approach. They will invariably say, "Cuanto tienes, pues?" - "How much DO you have, then?". My stock answer is "Ya Gaste' todo!", "I already spent it all!". Then, of course, you must remember to move on to another bar, lest they see you buying another beer, and thinking "Que mentiroso!!" - "What a liar!!".

5)The 'ol "try a different watering-hole" approach. This is how you end up running into Tomas in Amor Latino and Las Chavelas.

6) The 'ol "I just got here" approach. Tell them you just got there, and are going to drink a few first, and you will look them up and fuck them later - then, split to another bar.

7) Here is a rarely used approach, which actually seems to work surprisingly well... the 'ol "tell 'em 'no - because you're ugly'" approach. You must say it with a bit of a smile on your face - then they won't smash your nose in. It is kind of like getting out of a ticket by making the cop laugh. Having a bit of a buzz on helps with this technique - actually, the drunker the better. However, sometimes this approach backfires, and they will start to pressure you even harder.

8) Here is a new one that I'm going to try - the "Groucho" approach. I've bought a cheap Groucho eyes, nose, and moustache disguise. The problem now is that the girls will think that I'm Redongdo.

There were a couple other good ones some guys came up with, rounding it out to an even "top ten ways to avoid an Adelita girl"

9. Tell her you'll only go with her if she gives up the life and leaves with you. No way she'll take the pay cut.

I almost got rid of mine by merely letting my answering machine screen all calls using a female friend's voice saying "We're not home right now....". But damn it, she kept on calling. Finally we almost collided at a corner in the zona, and she said she wanted to talk, so we went to a hotel room for privacy. We went, and I told her I wouldn't pay her for her time. She begged, pleaded, cried, and even took off some clothes. (Please come back to me..) I didn't bite (Don't ask me why....). I finally told her "No te creo" (I don't believe you.) and she got pissed and ordered me out of the room. I left, and she doesn't call me anymore.
I'm either a terrible shit or she's the world's best liar, but after all her bullshit (and a great deal of financial aid to her), I'm just glad to be rid of her - But damn, she was beautiful. You can tell I'm not good at this.
Pauncho

Old Sailor sez...

"Its not in my personality to treat a women like a whore/slave."

Who suggested anything like that? My advice is to treat her like a human being and not play mind games. You're acting like a kid who pets and feeds a dog and then complains to his mom "but he followed me home!". That pup wouldn't have followed that kid home unless the kid encouraged it. This chica would not be so possessive of you if you didn't encourage it.

It's much more respectful, in this scenario, to let her and all the girls see you talking to lots of other girls and be on friendly terms with all of them. They accept the fact you're a guy who likes a lot of different girls and will still smile and say hi when they see you.

Book guy claims....

"Funny ... I thought my post was the LEAST analytical of the lot ..."

Well that's what you get for thoughting...er thinking. That thinking stuff will mess you up everytime.

Actually I think your post was pure analysis and almost totally lacking in content. If you were a therapist you'd have the kind of patients that come to you weekly forever, never receiving any kind of real resolvement to their issues.

Answers are generally pretty simple, the measure of someone's intelligence and communication abilities aren't measured by all the nifty terms they can spout. At a certain point you have to say "Am I genuinely trying to help somebody and convey solid concepts, or do I just get off on showing everyone I'm the greatest thing since peanut butter".

When I was in radio these concepts were pounded into us again and again...."if you can say it in 8 words don't say it in 20" .... otherwise you're just listening to yourself.

I heard you were the only one listening to yourself anyway.

Wow, what a friendly point to make. That you dislike what I had to say. I see that you took more than 20 words to complain about it, in fact two full posts worth, in which you manage to address the content of my post literally never. Here is your idea in less than 8 words:

"I disagree. You said too much."

But then, we wouldn't actually expect you to practice what you preach, would we, Redongdo?

Look, seriously, I'm sorry if you took umbrage at my initial post in this thread. I think I had a valid point to make; I made it, perhaps in a manner you disliked. Whether or not you would have me say it differently, in no manner addresses whether or not the point is valid in itself. You've made the mistake of equating those two rather than differentiating them. It seems to me, in fact, that you've made the mistake of believing that saying something short and punchy and pithy, is the only valid way of coming to an understanding. God help me if I actually begin to think about the world in 8-word sound-bytes. I believe in introspection, depth of analysis.

Further, you impugn my character rather than my advice. "You would be the sort of therapist who ... ." Not polite. Not to the point. Not constructive. I'm sorry if you feel I wrote too much, but then, I don't know if you feel that this is the particular problem or not, since you didn't actually address what I wrote, but rather merely the form of it. Too complicated, evidently.

And anyway, my post wasn't particularly complicated. I summed it up in a subsequent post. The ideas were very simple. If you missed them simply because the vocabulary was over your head, or the sentences were compound-complex in grammatical form rather than simple, the problem isn't with my ideas, now is it?

Did I lead him astray? No. Are you repeating what I said and then pretending I didn't say it? Yes. Is your complaint about my advice constructive for this guy who started the thread, and for general understanding? No. Your approach foregrounds yourself, gives you an excuse to claim that you know more about communication (this is typical of people with a background in broadcasting), and generally attacks people rather than ideas. I'd suggest we all take a different approach in the future.

All the answers to the posed question were helpful.

I like your style, book_guy, some things can be said briefly, but I think your approach on this topic offers more depth and insight and provides a valuable angle on the situation.

Thanks, book_guy. Check your Inbox.

Redondgo said, "You're acting like a kid who pets and feeds a dog and then complains to his mom "but he followed me home!"

That's perfect! I think Red hit it right on the nail. I can relate to OldSailor very much because I'm the same way in that regard.

I'm weaning myself off of a novia right now, for the same reason: quiero la variedad! I'll have to avoid the bar where she works for a while so as not to hurt her feelings or embarrass her. My (ex)novia is a pro, but she's also very honest and sweet. Sure, she wants my money, but she's even honest about that, and even hookers have feelings.

So I'm just (I think) like OldSailor: I'm sometimes too "nice" for my own good (and, ironically, that of others). I'm a softy (read: sucker) extraordinaire. In fact, I probably compound the problem by the fact that *I* deliver the GFE (rather, BFE) experience to every chica I'm with. I don't (intentionally) act like I love her, and I NEVER tell them I do. But for me, the GFE means just that - lots of passion, no holding back.

I don't think, IMHO, that OldSailor (or myself) gets into novia/novio situations because that's what we *want*, but more we're "asking for it" by our behavior (at least this is the case with me). What is difficult for myself (and maybe OldSailor, too) is to do what we should do: hold back a little. I know why I don't hold back: it's because I've been without a real novia for too long. But I'm sure there are a variety of reasons for getting into this jam. That little puppy that follows you home - that's me, for sure.

Actually, I think book_guy nailed it, too: "So in specific, maybe you just need to realize that there's some kind of responsiveness in you, that answers to the demands of others. Either realize that you value that part of yourself, and thereby admit that you've gotten yourself into exactly what you're asking for and you're going to revel in it; or decide that you don't value that part, and work bit by bit to move away from it. What DO you want with this chica? Relationship? Just good sex? Great GFE sex for a low price, but no emotional hang-ups? Make up your mind on which thing it is, realize that you have a right to making trade-offs in the direction of attaining that sort of thing, and then start to bring that thing about."

Finally, Gitano's suggestion is a great one: "Tell her you'll only go with her if she gives up the life and leaves with you" (and maybe has to move to the USA with you, too)

This is a great thread - this discussion helps me, too.

Great point, Bubba, that "I don't think, IMHO, that OldSailor (or myself) gets into novia/novio situations because that's what we *want*, but more we're "asking for it" by our behavior". For me, it's all a question of trying to figure out how to DIRECT my own life, rather than just letting things FALL AS THEY MAY.

I was trying to get to that point with my idea of, talking about how things "end up happening" as opposed to "making things happen." I don't know how to go about doing it -- getting some chutzpah, some balls, some cojones, deciding what I want and going out and getting it. That much I have no idea about. But, the idea that I ought to be doing that ... that much I'm pretty certain on.

Harrumph ...

Bubba-17,

If I was articulate, I might have said the same thing.

Pauncho

San Puto,

What did you say? I can't hear you cuz I'm talking!

Book guy,

I'm sorry, can we be best friends? I'll even give you my favorite plaster surfing monkey.

Look, all I'm saying is our behaviour is dictated by us right? We have to take responsibility for our actions, whether they be in the name of directing our fate or exploring where it will go. We get "stuck" in whatever situation cuz we put ourselves there. Whether conscious, subconsicous or unconscious..admitting it and taking responsibility puts us closer to awareness of ourselves and in theory mastery of ourselves. In other words "shit, what did I get myself into this time".

Now let's get a picture of ourselves sitting on a Zebra Donkey together.

Redongdo:

You betcha. I think we agree on the subject, as you've outlined it pretty clearly ("How DID I get myself into this mess?" LOL ... how many times have I said that to myself), and the rest is just silly internet bulletin board crap ... bygones.

Personally, I'd rather picture ourselves sitting at a bar drinking a beer together, but whatever floats your boat ...