Jocannon, I just returned from VZ. I saw the owner's sister and she erroneously characterized me as her "best customer"...very much NOT true. I didn't raise any complaints in person because of the nature of this controversy, but yes, I do think that the owners realize that a substantial portion of their customer base are gringo sex maniacs and our business is important to them. I believe they will respond to agreeable Email messages advising them that the nightly shakedowns are threatening your allegiance to the hotel.

Whether or not you can freely shuttle multiple chicas in and out is another issue...that is not exactly what the contract between us and the hotel allows. Nevertheless, I don't think the hotel management cares about it happening if it is handled discreetly.

I did ask questions about business and predictably they told me it was suffering. It's a buyers' market and our voices will be heard.

I really like Red's idea along with a practice of another amigo who I traveled to TJ with this week. He's a hardcore regular (truly the VZ's best customer) and he makes a point of saying hola to the desk clerk on his way to the room with the chica...in plain sight of the security guard. This process has a way of disarming both the guard and the clerk if he is planning to be complicit in any shakedowns. This is similar to Redongdo's approach, and similar to much of the other accepted conventional wisdom for avoiding all sorts of trouble in TJ...act really comfortable down there like you've been there many times before - get to know the people who serve your needs and treat them with respect. If the perception is that you know the score and you aren't some imperious gringo asshole, you may not be rendered bullet proof, but it will get you through hazard free much more often than not.

Erip,

If any of you remember Philosophy 101, there's a time to be a Reformist and there's a time to be an Act Utilitarian.

Sometimes ya gotta play with the hand you've been dealt.

With that being said I think the more "reformist" approach helped to alleviate the problem with car theft at VZ, since it's been a good 7 months since it's happened.

The multiple girl issue at VZ is a little different, afterall we aren't in the Zona de Tolerencia when in that part of town and there are actually family groups who stay there, not to mention what seems to be the occasional bus tour. Discretion is advised, the security guards will even "shoosh" people who are too noisy at night.

I agree with your "friend" (remember I taught him everything he thinks he knows...hah!) Erip re: involving the desk clerk as well when walking in and I do the same, assuming the guy is sitting at the desk.

Taking the utilitarian approach, just keep in mind that all it takes is a little respect (that doesn't always mean a propina) and acknowledgement to get the scales of resentment back closer to your benefit. Treat the security guards with said respect and realize if they like you they will guard your security.

Taking the reformist approach, sure it would be great to lessen the pressure somewhat and still allow the VZ to maintain it's "family" image. Perhaps Erip, with your background, could organize an appropriate approach other than a bunch of random complaints?

Red, actually it's my impression that "a bunch of random [consumer] complaints" all arriving at the same general point in time with a prevailing buyers' market just might qualify as an assertive organized approach.

The "family" issue really doesn't play into this other than the right of management to enforce a limit on guests to one chica guest per night...and thus effectively remove themselves as a player in the multiple chica insatiable monger market. Nobody is arguing with the right of management to send a shoosher to our door if we kick up a racket at night at this joint. Most of the time, the complaints are centered around an automatic response by security guard and sometimes the night desk clerk when they see a guy come in with a chica...whether it's his first of the night or his 4th. If this guy has failed to exercise the kind of cunning that's been ascribed to you and VZ's "best customer" and many others of us who are VZ regulars, he's likely to be harassed and it's nothing more than a scam - the "family hotel" image providing cover for the actions of the hotel's personnel. Not being a "toda de noche" kind of monger, I haven't brought chicas to VZ very often. Never had a problem when the chica was in my company, but on one occasion the chica arrived by herself while I was waiting in the room, and she was picked off by the security guard. It was a total scam since he demanded 200 pesos from her and you can be sure the Nelson family (who own VZ and Hotel Nelson) didn't see a single centavo - and of course the transaction had nothing to do with family values.

In the end the utilitarian approach you employ will be necessary for the forseeable future. We're talking about behaviors that are just too deeply socialized in Mexican border towns. The "reformist" approach delivered to conscientious management will produce short term results and needs to be regularly renewed.

Btw, our amigo who is VZ's "best customer" is always careful to acknowledge when his wisdom has come courtesy of Master Red.

Counselor please approach the bench!

Re: "Family issue" I wasn't defending/attacking the VZ. Just wondering which approach would be best in getting them to pull in the reigns on their security scammers. It's one thing to say "Hey I hear cars get ripped off here" and quite another to say "Hey I hear you hassle guys for bringing hookers here". I defer to your much more qualified judgement than mine.

Re: our buddy and whatever wisdom I imparted to him....basically I just showed him how 90% of the stuff you see on the boards is BS! HAH!

Nah Red, my judgement is no more qualified than yours. We are in the Court of Common Sense in the case of Supply v. Demand.

Porker
The quote you gave is from the movie "Die Hard With a Vengeance"

After the Mess I had at Travelodge a while back I have been avoiding using Credit Cards around the border.

I find that when I go Zaragoza,on the weekdays even that they allways try to up-sell a room to me. It seems like a waste of $12 to get a room that is about 8 square feet bigger.

Anyway,I want to use a Credit Card to make a reservation. I figure if I have a reservation for a room this won't happen.

I haven't seen that anyone has had a problem with stolen credit card numbers at Zarragoza but just want to make sure.


-snapper-

Snapper,

I've used my credit card to both reserve my room and to pay my final bill at the VdeZ without any problems at all with the card. And I've used this method to reserve a room both over the phone and in person.

The one problem with the VdeZ is that they always seem to lose my reservation, no matter how I reserve it or how many ways and times I try to confirm it.

I have stayed at several hotels in TJ. This is by far my favorite. Aside from the night security gaurd(witch Billfromreading you know about) the staff is among the tops. Very friendly.

As far as the up-sell is concerned, that is a common pratice even here in the US.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll be sure to confirm my reservation.


-snapper-

Snapper,

One last thing now that you mention it, about the security guards. Did not see the guy I had issues with before and had no issues with the ones I did see this time. One of them even smiled and nodded as I went by.

Maybe my reputation from my previous encounter proceeds me (LOL). Or maybe a new policy at VdeZ. Or maybe just good karma.

Since I was the "fellow monger" Jocannon mentioned in his post last October who had to pay an extra $20 for the pleasure of entertaining dos chicas for the evening, I should probably toss my dos centavos into the discussion and share my solution to the "security guard problem".

Being an ever-practical monger, and well knowing that I am pushing the "guest contract" by running multiple chicas through my room in 4 hour shifts, I decided to attempt to turn the guard's avariciousness in my favor.

To that end I found that when I was expecting company to arrive unattended and occaisionally in duplicate, that a little time spent with the guard(s) in advance, accompanied by a small propina of say $5 per guard would not only ensure their silence, but also their complicity. They then would stand watch waiting for her(them) to arrive at the street and deliver her(them) to my door!

I have to say that in the end, I'm a much more comfortable dealing with greed than principles. Greed is a hell of a lot easier to work with and around than principles.

Of course being that I'm retired and all, I'll never have to deal with a VdeZ security guard again...

drew

Retired again? Sounds like we need to organize an official retirement party...may I suggest TJ? What weekend is good for you?

I'll be sure to invite Angelica and your baby, Alexa, Rosy, and all your other ex-novias.

Everybody please book now before the VdeZ sells out for this extravenganza. Make sure to bring a wad of fivers for all the extra chica-escort duty the security guards will be pulling with the fat bastard in town.

In case you can't make it, not to worry, he'll probably unretire and retire another 6 or 7 times this year.

I have been to a recent pre or post retirement meeting for drew who aka "The Fat Bastard".

His behavior was not what one normally expects to see from a truly retired monger. I felt he was just as perverted and sexually aggressive as ever..

Quite frankly I was discussed by his lack of discipline.

I'm not sure what is so great about this place. In my experience, the rooms are plain and don't smell all that great. Am I missing something?

Dogster:

Early last year I got the feeling that VdeZ mgmt didnt give a fetch about my business and I tired rather quickly of their "fetch-off" attitude towards me...Voiding reservations, no rooms available when they in fact had rooms, etc...Mind you, I neither drink nor smoke and am about as cleancut and respectful as they come in the Zona...I never paraded girls in and out of there...

I first shoved off for the Hotel America, and then the Rio Rita-- which is my favorite ZN/El Centro hotel-- and never really looked back...

I have posted about my negative feelings towards the VdeZ on Mexico chat but never before over here on Discus...

The VdeZ deluxe rooms are pretty decent, but not necessarily any better than the Rio Rita sencillas IMHO...

YoungBrig

Recently stayed at La Villa Zaragoza. Clean ok place. The chica liked it so I liked it. They had three prices for rooms on this off night. Approx $43, $45, $48. for Standard, Jr exec, deluxe plus tax. They upsold me to $48 saying they were out of the cheaper rooms. I think the total price with tax came to approximately $53. They would not begotiate on price. They charged me $5.00 deposit for the key but gave it back to me when I checked out in the morning. Clean, quiet. The guard walked us to the room. The carpet in our room was starting to show it's age though. Bed was clean.

We went to the restaurant a few feet north on the corner. Nice coffeeshop style restaurant.

Restaurant Ricardo's?

"I tired rather quickly of their "fetch-off" attitude towards me...Voiding reservations, no rooms available when they in fact had rooms, etc..."

YB - yes, I know what you are talking about. Tacky.

I like Ricardos
Food is very good and reasonable prices do nut get this place mixed up with the "whitemanstyle" mexican cooked food at Sanborns.

The chorizo here is one of the best I have had in TJ - Next to Bambis of course ;)

Seriously if you are staying at this hotel or are in the area and want a cheap decent meal eat here or try the never busy restaraunt above the hotel I recomend the Chicken Mole.

take care
Milkman

Restaurant Ricardo's
Yes that is the place. Just a few feet north of Hotel La Villa Zaragoza on the corner. Some local families were celebrating their kid's graduation there. The graduates were all dressed up like they were at a wedding but my chica asked what the occasion was and they said it was graduation. I initially thought it might be some sort of sweet sixteen party or even religious event since two of them were dress in fancy white gowns complete with tiaras. It is the time of year for graduations though.

I went to this restaurant instead of the hotel restaurant since the hotel restaurant was closing at 11:00pm, it was almost that time, and we did not want to be rushed.

Restaurant Ricardo's is clean. The bathrooms are even nice. The food was good and was reasonably priced for the coffee shop style of restaurant that it was. No rush. Service was very good. They even hunted down one waiter that spoke a little english just to explain an option on ordering an item on the menu. Separate english and spanish menus available. And my chica enjoyed it. Always the bottomline with me. If the chica likes it then she is happy and if she is happy then I am happy.

Recommended. Will return again if I am in the area. Coffee shop style fanily oriented. Reasonable food and reasonable ambience at a reasonable price.

[Reposted from Mexico Chat]

A couple of friends and now I, have been victimized recently by someone at Hotel Villa de Zaragoza who is stealing credit card numbers. I was called by the fraud dept. of my bank yesterday and advised that THOUSANDS of dollars of unauthorized charges had been run-up, or attempted on my account. I use this card basically only for my twice a month visits to the VdeZ, and my friends also were dedicating one card exclusively to the hotel when they were victimized.

I have been a satisfied customer of this hotel for many years...usually spend 4 nights per month there on average, and I've never experienced this or any other problem. I do trust the desk clerks I've been doing business with for all this time, and I suspect the hotel's lack of controls on the flow of paper with your number written on it is the problem. I don't think we have the situation that existed for years at the San Ysidro Travelodge where the manager of the hotel was directly implicated in credit card thefts.

Whatever or whoever is to blame, be advised that using a credit card at the hotel will subject you to this risk. I will be writing to Rey Nelson...the owner of VdeZ and Hotel Nelson and giving him holy hell because he was made entirely aware about the previous thefts when they happened, and obviously has done little or nothing to fix the problem.

I invite the rest of you VZ regulars who like to use plastic to write him via snail mail as well (I suspect that Email addressed to this subject will not reach his hands). If you are a regular, you already have a card with the mailing address or know how to get it on their website. Rey and his sister who is also directly involved in day to day management, both speak perfect gringo English for those who don't know them.

They really need to feel our wrath about this. Unfortunately I haven't found an alternative to this hotel which offers the level of quality, service and convenience at a price I am able to pay for my frequent visits, and I like the convenience of using a credit card at this hotel. VdeZ really is a lifestyle for a good number of us, and I hope some of you will join me and make alot of noise in an effort to bring the place back up to standard.

hey erip,
I am very curious about this hotel. i am trying to find a nice place to stay but at the same time not looking to spend an outrageous amt of $. the credit card incidents are a real bummer but i guess i could always pay cash. I was also wondering about their parking if any, security, overnite guests, and rates. what are they charging you for a nite. I did ck out their website and their rooms look to be ok and very reasonable. i think their cheapest room was like 37 dollars. Would definitely like to chat with someone whos stayed there before so if you read this anytime soon let me in on some info or hit me up with an e-mail at jbr1176@aol.com thanks

Jbr1176, imo this is definitely the best overall bargain in TJ I have found within reasonable walking distance of the zona norte. Of course the VZ is extremely convenient for Revo activities.

The cheapest rooms at the VZ are better than a budget motel room in the U.S. (say Motel 6)...very comfortable with giant beds, good climate control, TV and reliable plumbing. Plenty of parking and security. The rates seem to slide up and down with the peso...my rate last week was $35 plus tax which is more than I paid 3 weeks ago, but LESS than I was paying a year ago when the peso was stronger against the dollar. Desk clerks and management all speak English, there is a decent and very inexpensive restaurant and bar on the premises and room service if you like. Local calls are free and there's an internet cafe right next door (inside a lesbian bar). The place ends up being cheaper than the dive joints in the zona if you have a car to park (except for Hotel Levya which has its own lot).

When it comes to chicas you will sometimes run into scams perpetrated by security guards in cahoots with the night clerk, though I've never personally had a problem. Your room rate is good for double occupancy, so they will hit you up for extra if you are shuttling chicas in and out all day and night. If you plan to bring back a single chica, be sure to write two names on the registration - yours and a chica name. Security will usually only look twice at you when you come back late at night when all is quiet - they may try to shake you down for extra cash...but if you have a chica registered, that will keep them at bay.

If you need any further info you can message me on this site or Email me at erip@earthlink.net.

La Villa Zaragoza is the only place in town for me. Their security is great at this place. I also like the food in their in-house restaurant. It's cheap and made to order for you. If you feel like watching a game or putting some money down, you can walk across the street to the Jai Alai Palace. Massages are across the street if you're into that scene. I'm bummed to hear about all the credit card troubles that are happening here, but this happens in the US too. Especially in Vegas. That's why I always pay in cash.

I stayed here once for a long weekend about four years ago and my experience was excellent for all the reasons Erip and Cantinflas mention: location, convenience and relative value. I never stayed there again because I personally would rather be in the thick of things in the Zona, but if you'd rather stay outside of the Zona and perhaps have 'takeout' plans for your chica preferences (or are going after the Revolucion girls, as Erip mentions), this would not be a bad way to go.

Is there a downside to using cash here such as having to leave a cash security deposit?

No need to leave a cash deposit...just pay for each night day by day. They will never kick you out once you are ensconsed if you decide to stay another night...even if the place is booked up with reservations. That's one of the DOWN sides...reservations don't mean much if everybody already there decides to stay another night.

Of course if you pay with cash you won't be able to charge stuff to your room like the restaurant and long distance calls and calls to Mexico cell phones.

They charge $5 for a key deposit and give it back to you when you check out. Then you can use this for the $6 cab fare to take you back to the border. I pay $45 a night in cash, plus the deposit.

I stayed a weekend here last month, paying with a credit card, and so far there haven't been any extra charges on my card. I got a good exchange rate, but there was a small exchange fee. They didn't ask for a key deposit, perhaps because I paid with a card. There were two of us, and they only gave us one key, which was an inconvenience but it worked out by leaving our key at the desk, which is open 24 hours. Neither of us tried bringing a chica to the room, but some of the chicas in nearby clubs told us they could go there with us (we didn't ask. They ask "where are you staying?", and when I answered "Hotel Villa de Zaragoza", they add: "I can go there with you". We even encountered a street girl on Revolution offering to go to our hotel, as it was just a block away and probably obvious where we were heading.

Probably the same chica that propositioned me outside of the AMPM.

Anyway, I stayed there the past couple nights(like usual). I was suprised that when I checked in there was no attempt to up-sell this time.

-snapper-

I stayed there for the first time on Wednesday night and though the experience wasn't terrible, I'll save my pennies for future trips and stay at the Pueblo Amigo or the Lucerna (my usual abodes).

My two bestest amigos always stay here so decided to give it a shot. A "Traditional" room was $43 out the door but I also had to pay 2 $5 deposits for the room key and the remote control. These were both given back to me upon check-out.

As far as location, this place can't be beat. Easy walk to everything with Revo just a block away and the zona about a 5-10 minute walk. There's a convenient 24/7 AM/PM Market across the street. The room was decent but with a closer inspection, CSI would have a field day with all of the little stains & spots.

For TJ on a budget, it's the place to stay but if you have the dough, go for the Pueblo Amigo. For a cheaper rate at the PA, go to the Caliente in the restaurant area, tip the manager $5 (if you're not a gambler) and get a gambler's form to get a $65 rate.

Hey TJPhoenix, thanks for the great tip on the gambler's room rate at the PA!!! -Rasta

Just got my credit card statment, with the charge from the VZ, and, a week later, three unknown charges from TJ. Do NOT use your card here!

Sandy

I doubt it is the owners. They are very wealthy and just not their style.

Probably management.

If possible try to contact the owners.

Me and tuff guy Erip went through this a while ago.

There is so many other factors here.
Ben you are right I am glad Sampson is not rubbing off on you. The owners would have nothing to do with this but their is a paper trail left behind. People can sift through their trash. The processing company if located in TJ can use them.

It could be the janitors. In mexico Management does not make far more than the regular stiff working there. I could see one of those guys saying to themselves "these dirty whoremongers fuck them" and go through the credit card receipts.

If you could find out where they are being used at turn them in too. They can lose their merchant accounts if they are participating in this practice because it will be obvious they do not have the imprints of the cards just the number punched in.

Now going back to the Hotel and telling the owners is the right thing to do in the USA but in Mexico all they look at is the numbers and the hotel is doing great business. Not sure if you will see a change. Why use a credit card ??
You have been warned enough times at this place its your own fault. Use cash ,this is a great hotel.

Good Luck
Milkman

I lost confidence in this place in the Spring of 2001 and have never looked back...It began with the car rip-off situation(El Cochino?), and continued with management's "f-you" attitude towards me despite the fact that I am about as cleancut and respectful a Gringo as you will ever find in Tijuana...

The Villa de Zaragosa sucks, in my book...

In terms of Centro Hotels, forget the V de Z and move on to the Rio Rita, or at least to the Hotel America...

YoungBrig

"I am about as cleancut and respectful a Gringo as you will ever find in Tijuana"

I will second that YB

Again i have never had a problem in this place and highly recomend it to any monger - Just use cash

The Rio Rita is noisy and is located right in the middle of REV so don't expect much sleep.

Hotel America on the other hand is away from REv and looks very nice. They are advertising specials for around 30 fucks a night but then again the hotel V is advertising phantom rooms for 37 fucks

good luck
Milktuff

Milkman sez, "just use cash."

What he meant was "Just use somebody elses cash."

BenwhoissickofKramer

plus, he doesn't even have an option, no way he can get a credit card

jocannonwho'dbebrokeinamonthwithMilkyasaroomie

(Message edited by milkman on April 09, 2003)

A common crime scam in Mexico (and throughout So Amer I'm told) is for a masera to carry a small, pocket sized hand scanner which reads your magnetic strip. As they carry your card to the register to process your bill they slide your card through. Later they can input your strip code to a computer which can produce a different card with a totally different name and picture but charging your card. I works well because you usually don't know there's a problem until you get your bill. Point is: Never let your credit card out of your direct site.

I have tried to keep my business away from VZ. The credit card scam pisses me off (didn't hit me), as does the security guard shake-down (hit me once).
However, there are simply not too many reasonably clear and safe centrally located hotels in TJ at this price.
Just now I was looking for a 1-2 week rental for a friend of mine and ended up getting private quaters, since none of the hotels I liked are cheap enough for him ($300 a week).
I didn't want to suggest VZ for such a long time. However, for a few days, if you are on a budget and NEVER use your credit card this place is diffcult to beat.

You guys have room under the limit on your credit cards? What the fuck kind of whoremongers are YOU?

I've never had a problem in this place. I come here often and they know me by name. I pay cash and they've always taken good care of me. When I came here on Superbowl weekend, they were sold out of rooms but they were able to find me a room in the hotel (apparently they never received my Internet reservation.) I've never had a problem taking chicas to the room or with security at this place. The restaurant is great too and the prices are cheap. But based on what I'm reading about having problems with credit cards, I am NEVER using a credit card at this place (or any place else in Mexico.) This type of activity happens in any U.S. City and I surely expect it to happen here.

"I am NEVER using a credit card at this place (or any place else in Mexico."

Me neither!!! I am MAD and I AINT GONNA TAKE IT ANY MORE!!! Right, TRW?

just kind of scanned the most recent posts. first about pagan's comments about the scanners--that is more popular in the united states. the problem is that when you are the victim of this crime in the states that it is hard to figure out which business did it. their are crooks everywhere--and they are often the lowest paid employess of the company.

the problem i ran into was they told me their credit card machine was broken. i didn't believe them, but i paid cash. it was late and i was horny. must have been over a year ago. i have ran into the broken credit card machine at several tj businesses.

me personally--i don't get all bent out of shape about charges that appear on my bill. i just make a phone call and have the charges removed.

Regarding credit card fraud, be careful if you go to Vegas or Reno. The Russian Mob has a lot of employees working behind the counter and they do all the credit card scams. It's what they're into. This recently happened to a friend of mine and the cops made the proper arrest.

I have a question about reservations and availability. (Havent stayed there before).
I will be heading into TJ on a Monday. Cant get to VZ till about 4:30PM and will need a "single executive" room. Im leary about using a credit card for reservations due to the CC fraud issues and the reports that they lose the reservations anyway.
Will I be able to get an exec. room without a reservation at this time or should I take the chance and make one.
Hoping for advice from you Vets!
TIA

I am currently staying there. They are pretty well sold out. I spoke to the manager yesterday when I checked in about the problem with the CC. He is pissed, and I think that a few heads will roll. They are not in business to lose business. You might want to garentee the reservation, but make sure you watch your bill for a couple of months!