Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive 01	50		2004/11/16, 08:15 pm
	Archive 02	50		2004/11/16, 08:15 pm
	Archive 03	50		2004/11/17, 04:11 pm
	Archive 04	50		2005/01/18, 07:08 pm
	Archive 05	50		2005/01/23, 02:11 pm
	Archive 06	50		2005/01/27, 02:32 pm

DD keeps bringing up the question about the house ownership. Have you, Mr. DD, ever owned or purchased a house in TJ?

I am Curious, and I ask the question, because I have been involved in such a purchase.

You know what we ended up with? A long letter from a lawyer (that we hired and paid for) that said basically that in his opinion, the person who was selling us the house did indeed have a right to do so, and that in his best opinion, that person was indeed the true and legal owner of the house.

That, and about 10 years worth of receipts for everything concerning the house, in the prior owners name.

Our lawyer then also drew up a short document that the previous owner signed saying that he transfered all his ownership rights to the new owners.

That was it. Nothing stamped or signed by any government office. No title documents filed with any recorders office. No tax deed, Nada.

Home ownership in TJ isn't like in the USA.

Bottom line, I (or most anyone) could type up such a document and send it to you. It would prove little or nothing. (Heck, I could copy the one I have, change the address, and send it to you.)

I have not bought a house but did meet a US/Mexican lawyer at a downtown San Diego Law Firm. This guy was highly recommended, and I was very impressed with his knowledge and thoroughness. It is too late to go over my notes, but it seemed his way was more detailed. That is why I was and still am skeptical of grunt03 and his vindictive campaign of smear. Curious, if all I had is what you say, I would still show it to prove my ownership. The real question is why Citlali showed this to MB and Grunt03 wouldn't show it to us.

Holmes wrote:

TextText"Here comes Dan Rather and his translator"TextText

That was funny and likely accurate.

Why is it that MB finds it neccesary to hold this "so called" information to himself for these days when all anyone wants is answers to some basic questions? I mean all that is neccessary is a couple of paragraphs, 10 minutes max of his time. No one is interested in a long boring dissertation about this subject.

I reread this whole boring topic yesterday, and let me tell you, all you need to come to your own conclusions about this topic is read what Grunt, Pagan, and Sr. Pauncho (the principals)wrote in the first couple of archives.

I guess MB is trying to MILK (pun intended) his fifteen minutes of fame, or maybe it makes him feel important to have information that others don't. I know he thinks we are all on pins and needles waiting for him to speak, but do yourselves a favor and just reread those posts I mentioned above, it will be as credible as anything else you read on a hooker board.

btw I dont consider Sr. Pauncho a principal in this drama but he seems to know, and have good relations with the girl.

I will be curious to see if pictures of MB and Citlali ever surface here......

I wonder if I gave Franco $20, if he would vouch for anything I ask him to say......

hmmmmm???????

Justdan-

You are right-

I think the best thing is that we do what others have requested and just let this subject die!

Really the main question has been answered that Grunt was just trying to smear Citali. Him accusing her of having HIV was just a little to malicious and some of us see through the story. Apparently she does have a health card.

Masterbates jumped on the wagon.....saw this as a way to smear Milkman with some grudge he holds against him. MB doesn't even give Milkman the couresty to respond to Milkman's PM to him.....but he gives Citila a.... SG the courtesty of withholding fundemental facts of this story.

Beachman, You are in all probability right about grunt and Citlali. What concerns me and a few of my buds that did this SG is the undenyable fact that this grunt dude either has AIDs or access to it. Was he planning a revenge campaign against her using the AIDs through either himself or as I theorized in earier posts through people anonymously sent to have sex with her.

I have two friends that are sweating this out bigtime.

They do not give a shit about the house, or whether Citlali is a nice street girl. What concerns them is she is on the shitlist of someone with a definite ax to grind that may be purposely exposing her to HIV.

They said they did her in first part of November.

BM

Also, I used to be concerned about whether a puta has a healthcard or not. I used to think it made a difference as to whether she was clean or not. However, after speaking to a few working chicas it has been brought to my attention that they fake em, buy em, and like when we were kids, trade em like baseball cards.

These are desperate people and their rent, food, etc. does not stop just because they are sick.

Of course they do what they have to do.

BM

Also, I used to be concerned about whether a puta has a healthcard or not. I used to think it made a difference as to whether she was clean or not. However, after speaking to a few working chicas it has been brought to my attention that they fake em, buy em, and like when we were kids, trade em like baseball cards.

These are desperate people and their rent, food, etc. does not stop just because they are sick.

Of course they do what they have to do.

Justdan, if this topic is so boring to you, why do you continuously log on to this thread? And no, I'm not looking for any fifteen minutes of fame, as you say. I am however looking for the truth.

Citlali, asked me not to post the exact dollar amount she and Grunt invested in this property deal, because she says, it nobody's damn business. And you know what? She's right. So, out of respect to her privacy I promised her I wouldn't.

Now, let's be clear on one thing; If and when I do report all my total findings, including dollar amount, that's definitely not to say I was pressured in doing so, because I didn't want posters calling me a liar. I will do so with the sole permission of Citlali and Grunt03. So far, Citlali is the only one who has agreed to talk to me.

I have found out a few things in my recent travels; for instance, some asshole from this board has been running their mouth about this chat site. They tell her everything, and I know I would quickly destroy my own trust and credibility with Citlali if I were to post things she asked me not to post. Why? Because I know she has access to monitor this thread.

Like I said before, I trust no one.

One other thing Justdan...you state whether or not it would be interesting to see if pics of myself and Citlali ever surface?.....now I know I have the upper hand in this argument.

Only time will tell.

Citlali has access to monitor this thread..Hmmm

Could that be the Padrote Damage Control that the Gruntman accused certain members of being. Makes sense.

Of course she is going to do everything in her power not to look like the RIP-OFF Ho she is.

Wow, whores have PR managers too!!!

MB

Yeah, it looks like she does have someone to monitor this thread for her. YOU!

Citlali has access to monitor this thread..Hmmm

Could that be the Padrote Damage Control that the Gruntman accused certain members of being. Makes sense.

Of course she is going to do everything in her power not to look like the RIP-OFF Ho she is.

Wow, whores have PR managers too!!!

Holmes, you really need to fix your K-Mart computer which you got on sale. Everything you post is repeated in the next post, or haven't you noticed that yet?

m bates

MB

He's trying to pad his CH post numbers...

E

Fuck your right I Gots to Stops tat.

Grunt must have bought his computer at the same place as holmes. He was repeating posts too. Starting with his first one.

MY FINAL COMMENTS ON THIS SUBJECT

RE: Citlali - Is she a sweet, innocent, angel sent from heaven? She is a Tijuana street puta who’s job description is to remove cash from anyone and everyone she comes in contact with. Whether it be by selling her body, or selling a fantasy such as the promise of marriage or the sick mother at home. The fact of the matter is that in TJ, the rules are, there are no rules. There are no scam artist or rip off ho’s, meseros, taxi drivers, etc. etc. Everyone you come in contact with, is street smart and hustlers, and if they succeed, its because they were smarter than you, and hopefully you’ve learned a lesson. If you allow it to happen more than once, well.......... You can’t go down to their country and expect U.S. standards of fair treatment. Stand up for your self, don’t be a PLM!!!!!

From my recollection the only “crime” Citlali committed was pawning off a wedding/engagement ring. By Grunts own admission he says “shortly after buying the ring (2 days) our house is robbed I had all sorts of medications and other items in the house but what did they steal? You guessed it the diamond ring, NOTHING ELSE” It seems to me there are only 1 or 2 members here on the board that are trying to besmirch her name, Grunt/Holmes, and they have failed miserably to get anyone to agree.

As for her having HIV, I guess we will find out when Sr. Pauncho goes with her on Feb. 14 to observe and she gets the results back. Now does she have it? did she get it from Grunt? did she give it to Grunt? did she get it from someone else? Who can possibly answer that............... Btw I hope no one has it, and this is all about the smear campaign.

As for the real estate deal, it seems she has neither legal, nor physical possession so it’s a non issue to me other than trying to discredit Grunt.

RE: Grunt/Holmes - Grunt first joined CH on Sept. 9, 2004 he made his first post regarding Citlali on Oct 24, 2004 one day after Sr. Pauncho introduced this topic. His last post on this subject was on Nov. 18,2004 @ 3:07pm, and because he has closed his account on Dec. 10, 2004. There is no reasonable way to verify or check against Holmes, any of his writing besides what’s on this topic. MrHolmes joined CH on Dec. 11, 2004 and wrote his first discuss post on Dec. 20,2004 @ 12:25am on a subject that I’m sure no one will be surprised by, CITLALI. His first chat post was also on Dec 20, 2004 @ 13:26pm entitled “Should have called a barber!!!”its about some chica with hairy legs and ass that he did.
He has 69 discuss posts, of those, 47 has to do with Citlali. He also has 94 chat posts. I counted 79 posts related to Citlali. OK your asking whats the point in all these statistics? What are the odds of some newbie focusing on this one topic, with no typical newbie questions, no posts in the Welcome to CH section. Immediately jumped into the game as if he knew exactly how to play. My thought is either Grunt/Holmes are the same person, or, Holmes is a personal friend of Grunt, with intimate information of Grunts side of this drama, and was recruited by Grunt to continue the campaign against Citlali.



RE: Masterbates/Due Diligence - There is some speculation as to whether they also, are one and the same person. MB first chimed in on this topic on Oct. 24, 2004 @ 2:01pm, he posted 11 comments up until Nov. 2, 2004 @ 12:11am. Fast forward to Nov. 7, 2004 @ 12:45am and Due Diligence comes on to the scene. He says among other things “Lastly, I created this account today/tonight to post this message, and don’t want to post this on my other handle”. NEWS FLASH!!!!!!! As I am writing this I have discovered a MAJOR, MAJOR faux pas. If you’ll check half way down the 3rd archive, to January 12, 2005 @ 11:34pm there is a long post originated by DUE DILIGENCE, where he step by step challenges Grunts credibility, there were 8 items he listed as proof of his dishonesty. Well, if you go down to the bottom of this post by Due Diligence it is signed by no one other than MASTERBATES! MASTERBATES!! MASTERBATES!!! lololol -Busted-
Due Dilingence and Masterbates are the same person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Masterbates credibilty - This section was where I was gonna lay out MY challenges to MB’s credibility. From Milky’s involvement to whether or not he met with Citlali, and why she would agree to tell HIM all, to my disbelief that he’s in Hermosillo. And believe me, although I would not be able to prove that he wasn’t there, my arguments would have been good enough to make most have reasonable doubt. But that would be overkill.

In conclusion, I have nothing personal against MB, I’ve never met him, I wouldn’t know him if I met him. I felt that he was acting very arrogantly, and it was obnoxious for him to try to smear Milkman wihout STATING his evidence. Milkman’s reputation is important to him, as it is with anyone else, and I’m not gonna allow MB or anyone try to sully his good name without evidence, without a fight. These are my last comments on this thread, I am comfortable with what I have written, I have nothing more to add. Of course MB you are welcome to refute anything I’ve said, the balls in your court. I am done.

JD

correction, Masterbates signs a post by Due Diligence.

I stated that the post was in the 3rd archive, it's in the 4th archive.

JD,

Thanks pal for unmasking Due Diligence. But can you please guess what MB'S angle is in all this?

I am guessing Padrote Damage Control.

Citlali's business has got to be taking a beating and MB for whatever reason came to the rescue.

Good try MB, now you can drop your cock. LOL LOL

There goes your credibility MB. Guess you'll come back soon with a new handle.

Justdan-

As much as I would like your research to check out...the reference you make to Due Dilegence posting Wednesday January 12, 2005 11:34 PM under this topic and signing as Masterbates. DueDilegence in the first paragraph points out the following is Masterbates finds...

What follows is a copy of what Masterbates posted under the Mexican chat on Monday January 10, 2005 22:28 PM.

So he copied what Masterbated posted 2 days earlier and that is why it looks likes Masterbates signed under a Due Diligence posting!

Even though I suspect maybe they are one and the same .....we have to look at the facts.

Masterbates still is playing games and said he would get to the bottom of this and now he is withholding facts.

His crediability is shit when he gives more respect to the Street Girl Citali than to a well liked member Milkman.

Beachman,

you are correct, I will have Hombre remove that part of my post and continue on with "Masterbates credibility"

My apologies to the membership

Justdan-

You did make a good call on Due Diligence creating an account on 11/6/2004 and his first posting the next day 11/7/2004 where he admits he was already a member. Almost 100% of his posting have been to agree with and cheerlead Masterbates on the Citali topic!

He is a challenge Masterbates.....give CH Hombre permision to tell us if you and Due Diligence are the same are your posting from the same IPS?

I bet you Masterbates won't respond because he in't respond when Milkman PM him privatly and MB proudly let us know he didn't respond to Milkman.

YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL OBSESSED!!!!! LET´S JUST DROP THIS AND LET THESE POOR PEOPLE GET ON WITH THEIR LIVES.

I know Citlali very well and she just wants to get on with her life quietly. She was brought to TJ at 17yrs by her pradrote who got her pregnant the first month she was here. This guy has enormous control over her and, like many foolish young women, she accepts this. Maybe someday she will smarten up, maybe not. But she is no different than a thousand other naive young women.

As one of her former marks I got played for over a year. The point is ...I LET IT GO!!! It´s history.

GRUNT or _ _ _ _ , I tell you this as a friend and fellow victim...LET IT GO!

As for those armchair critics so ready to attack this man, please remember that he has been living a nightmare. I met him at a restaurant the first day he called me and we met several times since. It was through comparing notes and interviewing mutual acquaintences that we both learned the truth. My relationship as novio had ended six months earlier but he was still living with her. He had planned his life and future around this person who promised her heart, only to have his own beating heart torn right out of his chest.

I do not know if his AIDS story is real or not. If it is true, the question remains whether he got it from her. From what I know of AIDs contracted through heterosexual contact I know it is very rare but not impossible. I do know the man is in pain. Certainly his desire to strike back is understandable. To strike back in this manner is more benign than his other options, so maybe it is reasonable to vent. But there comes a time to move on. It is definately time for him to move on (if he can).

As for you guys. It was time for you to move on about three months ago. So let´s do it. Let´s leave these people in their misery and let them be.

Whoa, wait a minute here...Pagan: You mean to say there actually is reason to believe, (based on your own personal involvement with Citlali) that she is really a scam artist?

Yet, you ask us all to forget this and move on....we're trying, but how can we when you've just presented another possibly credible piece of evidence to back up Grunt's story?

And you say you met him? You actually sat down and spoke with Grunt personally? After speaking to Citlali and putting some of the pieces of the puzzle together, it came to light that there was more than one monger involved in a romantic incident with her (refer to my previous postings on this very issue)

Hmmm, I don't know....

M. Bates.

Im afraid you will have to go back to the original postings on this issue.. but then that is my point. This thing has developed a life of its own. Too many people have been eager to join in without ever reading the posts from the beginning. I said what I had to say back when this whole thing started and I have chosen, for the most part, not to participate in this ongoing farce. With six archives of commentary now existing on this subject I can not imagine what could be gained by yet more re re rehashing of the same shit.

I say what I said before. If you really have questions, go ask Citlali. She will probably tell you, as she has told others, that he freely gave her half the house and that her relationship with Grunt was business. She will point out his offer to give her family $25,000 after they were married. I am sure he meant it (as many Americans will) as a way of enhancing himself as a prospect. From her point of view (remembering that she saw him as a mark from the beginning) it was seen as a bribe and further diminished her respect.

My advise is that if you REALLY MUST try to figure this out at least go back and read the original reports.

Other than this I say again.. PLEASE LET IT GO.

Pagan, you've posted very wise statements here. I hope everybody pays attention, including Grunt/Holmes.

And please guys spare the board any grumbling about a chica who takes advantage of a guy who delivers his heart to her on a silver platter. A chica who removes $5 from some dude's pants while he takes a shower is more worthy of board identification and derision than a chica who plays the hand that is dealt to her by the delusionals. I do empathize with these victims (including Grunt), but enough accumulated collective wisdom has been distributed on this subject by now that the actor has to take full responsibility for his own actions. It's lousy in border red light districts and lousy shit like this happens all the time. That will never ever never change in a place like Tijuana.

AMEN

The posting of another member's "height,age....color of hair", etc... would be a TOS violation. A request for such information is not a TOS violation, but it is in poor taste.

To put to rest this wasteful speculation and research that Masterbates = Due_Diligence or Masterbates = Grunt03 or Masterbates = Mrholmes, I can confirm that this is not true from multiple sources, including that Masterbates was in Mexico while Due_Diligence and Mrholmes were not. And yes, our confirmation eliminates the possibility of a single person logging in from two or three different computers.

Aside from preventing any TOS violations, I have neither the time nor desire to tread in this topic. I think it best to get back to on-topic reporting rather than wasting further space here.

Hombre: Update, on closer inspection our access logs can confirm at least three separate computers, not eliminate the possibity that Due_Diligence and Mrholmes were in Mexico. Other security logs still confirm at least three separate individuals.

This post continues MY discussion on the DOES CITLALI HAVE HIV ?? subject.

My previous posts were:
. Archive 1 - Sat Oct 23 at 2:30 pm
. Archive 4 - Sun Jan 16 at 1:41 pm

Today, February 14th, 2005, at 8:25 am I met Citlali and we went to the clinic.

This clinic is the "Hooker Health Clinic" provided by the governmental authorities for regulating the health of prostitues in Tijuana.

Normally, the next test date for HIV for Citlali would occur next month, but, the doctor in the clinic agreed to perform this test early in light of the circumstances.

The Doctor was Sylvia Olvivares Fuentes. She performed the normal physical exam on Citlali for which I was not present.

Then I went with Citlali and the doctor to the blood drawing room. I did not note the name of the person drawing the blood nor that of the clinic staff person who was also present.

The test ID number for Citlali was 28-7231.
The receipt serial number was 24885.

I watched the blood being drawn. After drawing the blood, the sample container was marked with the test ID number and Citlalis initials. I examined the container personally to verify this fact.

Having previously heard that Tijuana uses an older HIV test, I asked the doctor what test they used. They use the ELISA test, same as used by San Diego County.

We will return next Monday to pick up the results.

I certainly don't want to get wrapped up in this whole debacle that is the Grunt/Holmes/Citali novella but I figured that this thread would get noticed before the "Men's Health" one.

There's been news lately that there's a new strain of HIV/Aids that is more deadly and immune to any type of medication...and they're looking for the 1 of 2 known carriers in...San Diego County.

Citlali was looking better over the weekend. Was not sporting the trademark head band. Also she was giving me some cum fuck me expressions in a pleasant way.

I had an agenda and she wasn't part of it. Doubtful she gets added to the list unless she starts shouting 50 pesos. Not that she may not be worth 150 pesos but too many others to my liking.

The DOES CITLALI HAVE HIV Saga

In the following, I have copied from my previous messages that which I believe pertinent, and added that which I observed today:

###############
January 15th, 2005

Attention !!!

Please note that I (Senor Pauncho) made the FIRST POST on this girl on Oct 23rd, 2003.

On the date of my session somewhat before (I forget exactly) Citlali had a heath card and she showed it to me (Including seeing the picture and her name on the front).

At that time it was valid and current.
###############
January 16, 2005 1:41 PM

I visited her (Citlali) today. We went to the room.
She knows me as we had gone to the room a time or two before all this mess began.

At that time in October I saw her health card and verifed the picture matched and the stamp overlaying the picture and the inside front page of the health card were in register. This would TEND to indicate that the picture had not been switched.

Also at that time, I noticed that her given name was ***. I noticed this because that was the name of my multiyear favorita of past years.

Just after that post, Grunt e mailed me and mentioned her full correct name.

Today I again asked to see her health card. She had to go get it. She returned and showed it to me.

I again verified the photo and the stamp, etc.
I noted the HIV date on the orange square stapled to the front of the health card. It was dated late November 2004. Yeh, I forgot to write it down.

I verified the most recent RESULTS date as 20 December 2004.

I verified her most recent lab tests were taken 14 January 2005.

I verified that she is scheduled to pick up her recent results on 21 January 2005.

###############
January 23, 2005 12:54 PM

Yesterday, January 22nd, 2005;

I walked down the alley and Citlali flagged me down. She said "I have my results, let me go get them and show them to you", and she scurried away into the Mini Hotel.

A couple minutes later she returned with:
- Her Health Card
- Her "Hoja de resultados" (page of lab tests results)

At this point I need to point out that:

- Tijuana hooker health testing tests:
- HIV and syphilus every four months
- Clap (I can not spell the "G" word) and assorted minor conditions monthly.
- The results she showed me were of the "normal monthly" variety and do not include HIV testing.

She allowed me to examine in detail the results she received 21 January 2005 from the health authorities for tests performed 14 January 2005.

The lab tests page enumerated the tests and all checked good (once again Syphilis and HIV were not tested on this date).

The annotation on her health card reflected the results on the lab tests page.
###############
Febrauary 14, 2005 9:36 AM

Today, February 14th, 2005, at 8:25 am I met Citlali and we went to the clinic.

This clinic is the "Hooker Health Clinic" provided by the governmental authorities for regulating the health of prostitues in Tijuana.

Normally, the next test date for HIV for Citlali would occur next month, but, the doctor in the clinic agreed to perform this test early in light of the circumstances.

The Doctor was Sylvia Olvivares Fuentes.
She noted that Citlali had kept current her health card.
She performed the normal physical exam on Citlali for which I was not present.

Then I went with Citlali and the doctor to the blood drawing room. I did not note the name of the person drawing the blood nor that of the clinic staff person who was also present.

The test ID number for Citlali was 28-7231.
The receipt serial number was 24885.

I watched the blood being drawn. After drawing the blood, the sample container was marked with the test ID number and Citlalis initials. I examined the container personally to verify this fact.

Having previously heard that Tijuana uses an older HIV test, I asked the doctor what test they used. They use the ELISA test, same as used by San Diego County.
###############
Today, Febrauary 21, 2005

At 8:15 AM, Citlali and I went to the clinic and picked up her results.

Note: Routine results are given on white paper, results which include HIV testing are given on green paper.
Both types of results are on a 8.5 x 11 paper. The results are ANNOTATED on the health card.

The results page (Which I previously referred to as HOJA de RESULTADOS) is more often termed the CLINICO.

I observed that all test results were NEGATIVE. I took special note that the HIV tests (1 and 2) were negative, as was the VDRL.

I verified that results bore the serial 7231, same as the blood sample drawn.
The clinic also stamped as current the health card belonging to Citlali.

I asked Citlali the last time she had sex with *** (Grunt). She said that she thought it had been before September 2004.

Based on the elapsed between the contact and the test date, I believe that she does NOT have HIV.

Admin: Real names removed from post

Thanks Senor Pauncho,

that is great news for her and our community.

jd

Senor Pauncho, you are one of the most respected mongers on this board and thanks again for the low down on the Ho-down

Perhaps everyone can just move now

Good news.

Now can we PLEASE put this whole saga to rest?

My 2 pesos worth, I don't think she works anymore. Especially after some mexican put up those, shall we say brochures, all over the Zona.
She is a hot topic in the "community".

Too bad Unicornio closed, she was destined for that place, sooner or later.

I saw her out there today at about half past three pm

Many of the messages not relevant to Citlali have been moved to -Off-Topic-: -Entertainment: Outside: Citlali - HIV+?/Scam Artist?/Who Cares?. There are still probably messages still in this thread that should be moved as well, but it's not worth the time to go through all of them that carefully.

However, new postings to this particular thread will be more closely monitored. If the post has little or nothing to do with Citlali, it will be moved or simply deleted.

Saw Citlali Thursday morning. It seems she's apparently changed her shift now. She's usually there in the afternoons, but this time she was working her shift mid-morning. She now stands to the very left of the Monaco bar, which is under rennovation.

She recognized me and smiled. I approached her and said hello. There was just small talk, nothing more. Everytime I look at her I wonder if she would be worth taking upstairs.

M. Bates

Tight pussy.
Juvenile tits with inverted nipples.
No head nor tit sucking allowed.
(I don't think she likes me.)

Is Citlali still working? I've looked for her on numerous occasions and never seen her.

"I never look back [...]. It distracts from the now."

E

I see her every Sat/Sun morning as I pass by going to visit my grandaughter.

Does your granddaughter work in the Alley, too?

I did her about 2 weeks ago. Nipples are still inverted. The tits aren't large but I think they are now larger than juvenile.

Is now giving head but will try to jerk it with her hand at the same time.

She has a nice meaty ass for those that are into the BOOTY.

I may repeat my next trip down.

You are correct. I meant juvenile nipples.

Wow, it was just by chance I checked this thread to see if it was open again. Saw her when I was in TJ last week. She recognized me and just smiled.

Haven't seen her for a long time.

I spoke with her just before she left. Said she was going to take of her mother who was sick BUT the girls working next to her told me that was not true. They said she returned to Puebla because she was pregnant. So much for the I do not have a boyfiend and always use condoms bullshit.

Went with Citleli this Saturday night. This is BEFORE I read all the drama in this thread. Negotiated was N$200 for everything (but she said she'd only suck for 2 minutes). However, she proceded to give me a BBBJ OF HER OWN VOLITION, that exceeded that time frame! Needless to mention, the girl and I had some chemistry going. After a great session (her dialated pupils, and sweaty body proof of at least some enjoyment on her end), we spent some time talking in the room. She says that she recently had a baby. I asked where is the father, she said that he is sticking by her, and that he actually knows and supports her occupation. I asked if he is her padrote, and she laughed and told me that he was a Mexican client who got her pregnant. I asked her how is he so sure the baby is his, and she just laughed. How much of it is true I don't know but it jibes with much of what is said here.

bottom line: She is a sweet, fun girl, with a good attitude, and great sex technique. As for HIV risk, anyone who assumes that a puta is clean is living in self denial. ALL putas are high risk for HIV, and you need to ask yourself if you are willing to take that risk. If you are, like myself, use a condom, and stop worrying about it. If it happens it happens. If you are too scared, don't get prostitutes, period.

Not all that long ago (1 month ?) I ran into Citlali in the clinic, renewing her health card.

So I would estimate that she is not diseased...

She's looking a little cuter than before...