Dman,

Those are pretty harsh words directed toward a guy that is clearly a good upstanding member of our brotherhood. Why don't you try reading his thread "Chicas South of the Border". I think you'll see that you were a bit out of line, probably just a misunderstanding. Certainly you're welcome to your opinion, but I learned to really respect and admire this guy for what he's doing right now.

Not at all, I think I was right in line. Read what he said on the Monica thread. If he really feels that way, then all of my commentary is fully justified. If he doesn't actually feel that way, he shouldn't say it.

Dman,

"you are scum", "a leach", and "shit of the worst kind"..
Your pretty brave behind the keyboard, however, the real question is... Do you have the stones to not only say that shit to his face, but also having the skills to back it up???

Good luck!! And may the lord be with you...

Dman your way off base. First of all Strikingviking does around 5-6 SGs everytime he is down(once a week) and does pay the standard $20-30 most of the time. I also think he does lots of repeats including Paola. Whos helping who here???

If some jack-ass is trying to be some girls sugar daddy and trying to get the girls to charge gringos more money, he truly is an asshole.
The best thing you can do for these girls is giving them your business and recomending them to your fellow amigos.

Damn I have met you before and you seem like an OK guy but you really should watch what you say to some people.

Now were getting somewhere. I wouldn't wipe my ass with 90% of what I see walk into these bars. I don't have a personal axe to grind with SV but I agree with Dman on many of his points.

Number one being that personally if you're a "monger" in a plane screaming toward the earth about to crash and on board is a chica and me,plus 2 parachutes, buddy, you better start flapping your arms and learn to fly..... fast. Paying these girls 50 or 60 dollars a pop is almost criminal. I want to see them elevate themselves at every opportunity, whether they go to school or buy themselves an APT. building. I have been encouraging my fav to leave and never come back for months. I have been heavily and personally involved with a couple of the girls and have come to understand their plight. Many, many of them are from a poor background with little education other than the street, they get knocked up very early and then get stuck with the Mexican male equivalent of what frequents these bars, which is mostly alcoholic white trash. They are left alone to care for their children with no support system, government or otherwise. Then they have to put up with slime trying to screw them outta an extra 10.00 so they go brag about it on the internet.

It's 300.00 PER HOUR ON AVERAGE for an escort on our side of the border, the service isn't as good and the women aren't nearly as good looking most of the time ,not to mention the risk factor{LE}. WAKE UP!! They are women, were supposed to help them not figure out ways to take advantage of them.

SP says
"Number one being that personally if you're a "monger" in a plane screaming toward the earth about to crash and on board is a chica and me,plus 2 parachutes, buddy, you better start flapping your arms and learn to fly..... fast"

That is unless the monger bitchslaps you and takes your chute.when you started you were happy to learn about the zona from people whom 90% of you wouldn't wipe your ass on.

While your on your high horse and moralizing you keep on about how you like to spend big money on the girls and help them so much but doesn't this come somewhat at the expense of Mrs Panochas money for retirement and getting thru old age and the little Panochas future inheritance money?I'm sure they would be impressed with how your spending it.For being such a moralistic guy i'm guessing your being less than truthful about where poppa's spending all his spare time at.

Yes prices are higher in the states but were not talking about doing business in the states.We are paying fair market value prices or above for where the services are provided and assume risks in order to be able to do it.
I know it's coming so go ahead and spew back your crap.
Taxibob

Well, since it's 'be a judgmental asshole day' I guess it's time to play the Feud. In no particular order...

Striking Viking: What's it to you what other guys pay the chicas? Bajaboy hit that nail squarely on the head. The sky ain't gonna fall because most gringos aren't as dedicated to bargaining with hookers as you are. Quite the opposite in fact -- I don't think these chicas hopped the bus from BFE Mexico hoping to run into a bunch of cheapskates (she came to TJ, not Monterrey!), but rather came after hearing about generous gringos with fat wallets. Watch what happens if the fat wallets go away. (The sky STILL won't fall, btw!)

Senorpanocha: If we're all such scum, what the hell are you doing wasting your precious time consorting with us? Maybe you can pay some of your chica soulmates to discuss the finer points of boning your PAID MISTRESS (oh yeah, she's in it for the nights on the town and the middle aged guy's tongue...) instead of losers like us. Of course you don't wanna screw these chicas... No, no, lust is so pedestrian. You wanna save them from their cruel lot in life. Oh, uh, but only the beautiful ones with bodies that can stop traffic. Drop the delusions. YOU'RE A WHOREMONGER JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE HERE. YOU'RE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE DRUNKEN PEASANT THAT BATHES MONTHLY (if he can find running water) AND PAYS HIS 50 PESOS TO GET HIS LANCE WAXED BY A HOOKER EXCEPT YOU PLAY WITH DIFFERENT COLOR CHIPS. THE CHICAS DON'T GIVE YOU PLAY BECAUSE YOU ARE A SAINT, THEY TOLERATE YOU BECAUSE YOU PAY THEM. DEAL WITH IT.

Dman -- Just cuz a guy wants to get laid for less doesn't mean he somehow has any less respect for a chica than you do. In fact I'd argue he's just more in touch with his GUILTY FEELINGS for screwing prostitutes in the first place. Repeat after me: IT IS A BUSINESS TRANSACTION. YOU ARE NOT DEFILING THEM. THEY ARE NOT PART OF A WHITE SLAVERY RING BEING FORCED TO TURN TRICKS SO GRANDMA WON'T LOSE AN EYE. YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOWER THEM WITH MONEY TO ASSUAGE YOUR GUILT OVER PAYING THEM TO PLAY WITH YOUR NAUGHTY PARTS.

And Dman, while we're at it, before the next time you get so pissy about another monger in this community or whine about not having enough info on this board to point you in the direction of a quality provider (since apparently you can't find your own damned chica despite your apparent riches) you may want to consider the Darwinian principles underlying that lack of info. "You are what is known as a Free-rider on the system, or, in layman's terms, a leech. You must contribute to get any consideration as a teammate." You, the ultimate WHINING leech, called out the wrong fucking dude. ASSHOLE.

TOMAS, BAJABOY -- Who's buying the botella next time?

For the rest? Why not save your self-righteous tirades? They really just make you look like an ass.

AMEN, lets all go and get drunk and find a few chicas. You can all moralize to them in English, which they dont understand, if you want. Im just here to get laid.

I probably have as many girls in the zona who I consider friends as anyone on this board, and far more than most, but I still agree with Striking Viking. This is possibly because I know him well enough to understand what he means, which would take more than the few sentences he has written to express.

Dman, you are entitled to your opinion, but the way you expressed it was uncalled for and made you look very childish, IMO. One of the reasons people are hesitant to share info on really good providers who don't charge top dollar is because it seems like every time they do, a few guys come along and try to impress the girl by paying or tipping her more. All of a sudden, she is no longer happy with the what she was getting from her old customers, and the guy who got her all this new business loses out.

Porker, on a lighter note, I think it's my turn to buy the "first botella". We haven't got fucked-up together in a long time. I can't make any promises, but this weekend is looking like a binge one. I'll know more, on Wednesday, but you can pretty much count on it.

I'm not taking sides on this one, but I agree more with Dman. I do think he was way out of line in saying the things he said about SV. Can we all just get along.

Taxibob- OH OH SenorP rode into town on his high white horse to save the chica's and nicked you in the process did he? Well, pay no attention to that self-righteous Bastard! He is in love and quite out of his mind right now. Point given on learning the Zona. Funny how perspective can change so fast in less than a year. Mrs. Panocha and all the little Panocha's are well taken care of,now and for the future, else how else could he justify the obscene amounts of time and money he spends down here. No crap forth coming,I said what I had to say.

Hey, I HAVE to do this once in a while just to see what comes outta the woodwork,lol, that post was directed at no one in particular by design and look who fell into the trap,the one guy I least expected. Porker, did you relate to the 90% I referred to right away or did you have to think about it a bit before you felt insulted? Which one got you, the slime who try to cheap the girls outta the ten bucks or the alcoholic white trash ? LoL. AW, come on, I still like you, you're cute when you're drunk and broke.

I fuck em to, I just like em to have a good time while they pretend to enjoy my condescending manner and obnoxious persona. You are right, I play with a stacked deck, there are some in the Zona with more charm, some with more looks and some with more money but there is NO one with with all three!! HA! Did you say I don't bathe??Come on.... that's what I bought all the Calvin Klein and Armani cologne for.

Hey Porker,

FYI, I was NOT going after Strikingviking for trying to pay less to fuck chicas. I went after him for suggesting that we essentially try to bring to weight of market collusion on them, and all join in a concerted effort to drive their prices down. That, to me is a hell of alot further along the path of being an asshole than to just try to negotiate them down on his own. And that he expressed a view of taking sides in this "conflict" that is completely in error. I'm not on his side, and I didn't want him to presume that ANY monger was on his side in this issue.

As for my guilt, well, yes, I certainly feel guilty if someone such as Strikingviking might presume to think that I might share in his views on these chicas. It certainly DOES cause anyone who is in the least bit thoughtful to reflect on their own actions, if one such as Strikingviking would presume that I might share his views.

As for me, in fact, Monica is the 1st SG that I have EVER found and enjoyed through the recommendations of this board. I have given far more recommendations on this board, both good and bad, than I have EVER made use of for my own gratification. You can say what you like about my attack on Strikingviking, but to accuse me of being guilty of the same behavior that I called him out for is just flat out inaccurate. I have NEVER withheld the information on a favorite chica in Tijuana.

Market collusion??? What hell do you think the SGs do?? They charge gringos TWICE as much as the mexicans pay!! Is that fair?? Hell no!! I think it's a little racist myself but so what.

So is it really so bad to suggest that we not over pay these girls??? If $20 is the stanard gringo price and since we are overpaying, why should you tip a chica in the first place????

And another thing. I keep reading about how some guys treat the ladies so well and they make it sound like the rest of us treat them badly.
Maybe because some of us use words like "monger,hooker,whore ect."

What is said on these boards is a hell alot different than what happens in TJ. Who in there right mind would treat a chica "badly" I always try to show them a good time. I do that by making them laugh, dancing with them, buying them drinks or whatever. Its all about trying to get a great sesson. If you do those things and you have some type of connection with your chica, money is not always there biggest concern.

Dman,
Once again I would urge you to read Strikingviking's thread "Chicas South of the Border"
Start at the beginning and read the whole thing. It is absolutely engrossing and will probably give you a different insight to the quality of the man's character. If you're not willing to do that, then you are really limiting yourself and sounding rather foolish.

I just react to what I read and the more involved I become with the chica the more sensitive my feeling are for them or her. I hope no one treats them badly. I do the same as everyone else in trying to show them a good time, be nice, get them to laugh, buy them drinks...etc.

The easy answer is to not read the board if your like me,and sometimes I don't on purpose for days, but it's like a traffic accident, it's hard to look away.

As far as money goes, we all, I assume just use what we have, looks, charm, ability to speak Spanish, proximity to the area,money,knowledge of the culture, whatever,to get the best session or experience possible. What I lack I try to develop and what I have I use as leverage, but the bottom line is to treat them as you would like to be treated in order to get the best possible experience for yourself and for them as well.

I agree with Tomas to some extent. I believe the girls are more classist than anything. Yes they do in fact charge more to some people, mainly Americans, but also a few well-groomed Mexican Nationals get taxed as well. One time I was walking by a famous street girl who charges at least $20 and heard her stutter $100 pesos while speaking with a “Local”. I say stutter because she looked into my eyes at the very moment she was speaking with the local. Boy did she feel stupid, and of course I went back later and redeemed my “Local” discount.

The only way we mongers would have any collective power to affect the la zona norte price of pussy would be if this web site reached a significant proportion of the consumers, and we were willing to collectively withhold our dollars for a period of time to make our point.

I don't think either situation applies here. There are too many isolated consumers who have no contact with each other except for possibly brief discussions in the bars. We are all bargaining as individuals. However, for the most part the chicas are also bargaining as individuals - they all compete with each other, and charge what they think the market will bear given their age, appearance, willingness to perform specific acts, and charm.

Dman said "As far as money goes, we all, I assume just use what we have, looks, charm, ability to speak Spanish, proximity to the area, money, knowledge of the culture, whatever,to get the best session or experience possible."

That is not a correct assumption, although it explains your attitude. It is true for many, but there are many others who put limits on their actions because they know that they may adversely affect others. A great example is not discussing this board to try to curry favor, or not paying way more than the going rate to try to get special treatment.

Lovepussy, I disagree. It sometimes only takes a couple of guys "overpaying" to cause a girl to raise her asking price. Aricelli is a great example of the power of this board to influence prices. For over a year, she would ask $20. After a flurry of posting here, I am told that she now requests $35 - $40 from new customers. While pre-existing customers are grandfathered price-wise, the quality of her service went down, and she became much harder to locate.

I get it, you don't pay more to the girls as an altruistic gesture to your fellow man? Shit, I was all wrong, I thought you were just trying to save money,LOL. What a kind and thoughtful gesture on your part and I thank you .

I don't pay more to try to get special treatment, I get special treatment at a large discount proportionate to the going rate by dating rather than using the hotel.

It's really simple, after 2 or three hour sessions during a one to two week period we end up going out, cause I LIKE IT, dinner, lunch, movies shopping whatever, then back to a nice hotel, cause I WANT TO, I like the atmosphere, room service, TV no knocking, I like to talk to the girls, find out about them. We end up spending hours together, I frequently have to leave before they do, they end up enjoying themselves in a no pressure environment, not watching the clock. I don't ask for anything, I get what they give. In the end if you figure it out by the hour I pay much less than the going rate, but I don't figure it out, I don't even think about it most of the time.

This is called a free market and one of the by-products is customization of service. You can do a SG for 15 minutes at 20 dollars if that's what the rate is or spend all day or night for a couple hundred, it's a nice choice.

Just thank me for not ever going with the SG's and completely pricing you out of the market,that will suffice and your gratitude will be my reward.

You go booooyyyy!!!

dman I wouldn't mind kicking your loudmouth pompous ass, and not because I am a latent queer or latent anything else. BA(big university with good football team) MA (small northeast ivy league school also; JD (best law school in TX). You are right that SV pays too much in taxes. I don't pay nearly so much and I am a self made rich m***** f*****. Go away dman. (sorry TJ Hombre)

Getting back to the topic at hand, Whenever I ask a street girl how much, she says 20 bucks. I immediatly respond "en pesos" and am ALWAYS quoted 100 pesos. I am whiter than the driven snow, BTW. Some of you worried about dollar prices might want to change some of the cash into pesos, you would be amazed the discounts you can get.

As to SV's tax situation, DMAN might want to ask his tax advisor about how self employed people (which I think SV is) get fucked on their income taxes. 55% sounds about right. ugh

FUCK taxes, man. (bet that's the one thing that'll get all ya'll street-fightin' mufuckas together, for a minute at least, til ya'll go back to talkin' about scrappin' and blastin' each other! HA!). I'm sick a this socialist bullshit in this country. Can't even make a dollar without them treacherous bitches in Washington stickin' ya up...

lorenzodenl:

I didn't know that they had any good law schools in Texas.

The only one I'm familiar with is U-T Austin. I hope THAT's not the one you're bragging about! Hook 'em Horns!

As a graduate of The University of Texas, in both my undergraduate Degree and my JD let me say I think both the college and the college of Law are excellent! Damn right Hook 'em Horns!

Dman;

I do not know SV but honestly- did you read his posts about his trip to some place I suspect most of us would be afraid to venture? He was kind and decent to people, in a way I am sure many would not be.

As a nod to his violence, or your assertion there is no need for violence in todays world.... I disagree. We need tough guys. Seriously we do, otherwise graduates of the University of Chicago, like yourself I am guessing and Lawyers like me end up hugging and talking about our feelings. Guys like Viking keep it real. I think we share a unique hobby that is frowned upon by "polite society" let us not attack each other.

Jim

PS-

Texas has numerous colleges of law.

Dman, congratulations! You've managed to make
enemies of half the posters here. You sound so foolish chasing that arguement down into the gutter. The language that you used in your first diatribe against Strikingviking calling him "scum and shit of the worst kind" was so childish. You really make yourself sound like a self centered creep.
I am not going to direct any more messages to you, because you've obviously disregarded my previous advice and continued beating that dead horse about how terrible you think Strikingviking is for making one statement that you disagreed with. Were you really surprised that he wanted to kick your ass after the things you said about him?

Why don't you grow up?

"Texas has numerous colleges of law."

Yes, and UT Austin's is considered one of the best in the country. Maybe not in the top 10, but way above average. Rice and SMU are also well regarded. Once again, Dman insults someone (at least that is what I inferred from his comment), without knowing what he is talking about.

SenorPanocha, the fact that you can't believe that a monger would actually take other mongers' welfare into account says a lot about your character.

Does the fact that paying a girl more than the going rate might have an adverse affect on others in the future affect my decision not to do so? Yes.

Is it the only factor in my decision? No.

Do I know for a fact that there are other guys out there who feel this same way? Yes.

When I began mongering in TJ, I was making a six figure salary, and had no wife, kids, or house to spend money on. I did occassionally throw money at a girl, but changed my behavior quickly. I know guys who have far more money than I, who also refuse to overpay, and for the same reasons.

If someone wants to pay a girl twice what she normally charges, that is his business. He may get better service as a result, or he may not. If he thinks that she will like him more because of it, or that there is no chance he is doing other mongers a disservice, however, that man is a fool.

Laredojim,

I stand corrected - We DO need tough guys like Strikingviking. If not him and his peers, our penitentiaries would not be full of homosexual rapists, and thus prison would be a far less effective deterrent to crime then it presently is.

Incidentally, I do owe YOU an apology. I should not have impugned the University of Texas-Austin, merely for the apparent fact that their normally meritorious standards were allowed to lapse in granting a Law Degree to Lorenzodenl. My own institution of graduate study has also on occasion been prone to such a lapse in standards, such as the time that they let Antonin Scalia out with a degree, thus proving that even the finest institutions of higher learning sometimes fail to effectively screen out some truly dangerous individuals before granting them credentials.

TJHOMBRE, how much more of this shit is necessary?

Who needs to get laid???

It sounds like all of us do, huh? We sound like a bunch of pent up bitches.

Move on, nothing more to see here...