I'm a soccer fan (been to 4 World Cups) and am looking forward to a little samba soccer. Does anyone have any info on schedules or websites that would involve Rio club teams. I believe Botofugo and Flamengo are two local sides.

Of course this will not interfere with my therma time. Do any locals or tourists play pickup games on the beach?

All information is much appreciated.

hi funpaddy!try this oglobo.globo.com that will get you to the newspaper then esporte,futebol there the 5 largest fotballsclub in rio will appear.you may ask ayrton at meia pataca he is a vasco fan.knows all about the games when and where to get tickets.of course travel agency and hotels help with tickets.if you bring the futebal you will soon have a match.if you get me an adress i will mail you allmy info.iggy sca.

For info online use Iggy's link. If in Rio, pick up a copy of the pink sports paper for about R0.60. This has pages dedicated to each of Rio's 4 main teams as well as match schedules for the coming weeks.

The biggest games in Rio are Flamengo v Vasco or Flamengo v Fluminense. The size of the crowd depends on the competition and the importance of the match. I was lucky to see Fla-Flu in the final of "Taça de Guanabara" with 72,000+. Cracking atmosphere with a penalty shootout finale. However, other Fla-Flu games have had crowds of 5-10,000 which makes for a very dead atmosphere in a stadium the size of the Maracanã.

The current season is down to the last eight so there may not be an all-Rio game this year. Season will restart in Feb/Mar and has a Rio state competition early on, so this may be your best bet. Just don't expect high quality football.

Most gringos adopt Flamengo as they're the Man U of Brazil. For that reason, and because they're nicknamed the "Tricolor" I adopted Fluminense. Plus their fans are a little "safer" to mingle with. Their own ground in Laranjeiras is worth a visit if you like unusual stadia.

BTW, are you a real Paddy or a plastic?

funpaddy:

Ardgneas is correct. There are some regional matches in the first months of the year, most notably the Rio-Sao Paulo Cup, which can be fun (and includes all-Rio and all Sao Paulo matches, not only Rio-Sao Paulo). Unfortunately, if you are going now in December, there are no real games fro teh Rio teams, as none of tehm made it to the final 8 in the Brazilina Championship.

As for beach games, there are games going on all teh time up and down the beaches in Rio, especially Flamengo beach (onthe bay.. it's flatter). Although there are pick-up games (peladas), there are also organized leagues with uniforms, refs, etc.. But if you ask around, I'm sure you can find a pelada, especially towards the end of the day (too hot when the sun is all the way up). If you really want to show off your footy skills, try Fute-vol - that' stwo on two beach volleyball with a #5 ball and only football-legal touches allowed.....

BTW, it's BotAfogo (Firestarters), and they've just been relegated... the other Division 1 RIo teams are Vasco de Gama (popularly Vasco), Flamengo ("Fla" or "Mengao", pronounced "Flah" and "men-gaum"), and Fluminense (Flu as in floo, or Tri-Color, tree-coh-lore). Sao Paulo teams are Portuguesa (relegated), Sao Paulo, Corinthians, and Palmeiras (relegated). Hehehe, it's been a weird year in Brazilian football,too many top temas relegated (and my own team, Internacional, just barely escaped...).

Cheers!

BS

You forgot Santos ...

Santos is a Santos team! (although they often play "home games" in Morumbi stadium, Sao Paulo). Another nearby team is Sao Caetano, one of the best in Brazil.

BS

Saint Gypsy ... only in Brazil ...

Hey, where IS Santos the place? I thought it was a neighborhood of Sao Paulo?

Nah.. it's another city entirely, about 60 mile away. Actually it's the port town (on the seacost) for Sao Paulo.

BTW - I was wrong (AGAIN), there is a Rio team in the final 8 of the Brazilian championship - Fluminense. They must have paid of a LOT of referees this year.....

BS

The Hotel Debret has a soccer package deal for games at the Maracana. Saw bunch of Englishmen (don't they ever get tired of futebol?) going for it. Package includes bus ride from hotel and game ticket.
Much better deal imho is to go with a garota. Just invite a garota who is a home team fan and there you go.

Flamengo (?) the team with red and black stripes, their home stadium or is it their training field looks like a real piece of shit from the 30's is right by Solarium, 5 min at most.

Its Maracana Stadium.

There are no scheduled games till February. Ona can visit the stadium daily though.

jose

Flamengo's training HQ is in Gavea, on the way to Solarium which is in Jardim Botanico. Rio has a number of local teams besides Flamengo, such as Fluminense, Botafogo and Vasco da Gama. Botafogo's training HQ is right near the Canecao and Rio Sul Shopping, anyone notice it?

I am heading to Rio this week. I noticed the Fla-Flu match is on Sunday the 13th at Maracana stadium. Does anyone have any tips on the best way to get tix or transport in/out. Given what was said in previous posts on this thread, I don't know whether to expect 70,000 or 10,000. I can't read the portuguese in oglobo.

Debret and other hotels sell futebol package for games at maracana. Bus and ticket, i think i remember seeing R$60. Maracana rarely sells out as 170,000 seats, well it used to be 200,000.

i went to the flu/fla derby 3 weeks back, and was blown away by the whole spectacle. whether you get your tix through the hotel, (which involves going on a bus and stopping at several hotels for p/ups and dropoffs) or just jump in a cab, make sure you get the caderia especial tix. (special seats) that will put your in reseved seats in the section right between the two rivals. its like nothing you will ever see in any u.s., stadium for any sporting event.......ever! bring a video camera to film it, only if it is a day match, as way too risky for a night match.

expect to pay 40-50 reals for a reserved tix. enjoy.

Fox Sports Net shows a lot of international soccer and rugby matches, including Futebol Brasileiro. Sunday matches in Brazil are shown Sundays in the US with a couple of replays during the following week. FSN showed the Carioca 2003 tournament, including the final match in which Vasco defeated Fluminese.

Faca Turismo has a "guided tour" which will take you to and from your hotel (ask your hotel for details) to Maracana and provides tickets for 60 reals. You could do this a lot cheaper on your own, but what's 60 reals, nowadays.

Oops. My bad. Fox Sports World is the soccer channel. It also has Argentine, European and, in particular, English Premier League football. Futebol Brasileiro is at 8PM eastern time on Sundays.

But UEFA Champions League is on ESPN so ManU vs Real Madrid tomorrow at 11:30 am live on ESPN2. FOX cannot show highlights, neither does CNN International.

Nomar going to the Fla Flu derby -- I am SO jealous!! But I got tix to WC Final, one semi-final, 2 quarterfinals, Germany 2006, nyah nyah nyah. They haven't even announced which stadiums or the prices, but a tour operator is speculating so what the heck I just went ahead and dumped $1000 US. And no I can't give you a link, it's currently illegal and through a friend of a friend of a friend, sorry.

The only USA coverage of UEFA Champions' League (IMO best football ever) is on ESPN or ESPN2, which means you have to suffer through Tommy Smith and JP Delacamera complaining about 99%-excellence and misunderstanding the rules -- AGAIN -- geez. Fox Sports World is the best USA coverage of English Premiere League, also has Brazilian, Argentinean, Scottish, German, Spanish, some English first division, but they dropped their Italian (my fave).

The "caderia especial" tix - ah, that's the ticket to get. The tour gets you into the lower level section next to the caderia especial -- about the 10 yeard line. Sit anywhere you want within the section. Primarily, a section of tourists with a smattering of brasileiros.

The WC? Now, you've stirred the jealousy in me. I was thinking of giving that one a go. More realistically, I'm thinking of the 2003 Confederation Cup in France in June. Tickets are reasonably priced and are available via the web. Tickets for 4 games in a venue (3 venues: Paris/St. Denis, Lyon and St. Etienne) are 130, 90 or 45 Euros. Brazil, USA, France, Japan, Cameroon, Turkey, Colombia and New Zealand.

soccer
I would not worry about getting tickets to Confederation Cup 2003. French people do not like sports in general and follow only their "winners" so what I am saying only the games involving France will sell out if played outside Paris. Games in Paris will not sell out in June time frame as team is struggling despite easy wins in Euro 2004. Brazil always seems to have Brazileiros following them all over the world so Brazil games may sell out at last second.

book_guy
I'd rather have lousy commentators and game shown than no game at all. For example wed Barcelona-Milan is not shown on ESPN2 but can be seen on ESPN International outside US.
Brazileiros are insane about futebol between watching their league, Champions league and European leagues.

Thanks for the tips everyone. I will report back on how it went. My traveling partner just called and told me the forecast is for rain during our stay. Oh well, guess we'll have to find some indoor entertainment.

Nomar:
Sit in the lower level, which will provide cover from the rain. They will play soccer no matter how bad the rain.

I went to a game last week. Did the tourist bus thing for R50. Signed up at Bobby/Blame it on Rio. Got me a bus ride, an english speaking guide, and a seat in the covered area among a multi-national group of soccer fans.
The game I saw last week was the first game in the first series of the National Championship Tourny. So long as the Rio team continues to kick butt there should be football to watch for the next month. The level of play that I witnessed was FAR above what I'm used to seeing in the USA.

McDIJJ

P.S.

Flamengo won the local championship and is representing Rio in the National Finals. Lots of red and black stripes being seen around town.

I will be in Rio in the first week of June. I have never seen a soccer game live. Do any of you guys know if there will be games in June?

Yes, the Copa Brasil will be coming to it's conclusion and the Campeonato Brasileiro will be marching along.

Just to explain this, Brazil, like England, has two national championships... The Copa Brasil (Cup) is an elimination tournament, all the state champions and vice champions plus some extra invitees are seeded and then play "deathmatches" - usually the aggregate of a home and away game - until there's one cup champion. The final is in June sometime, if there is still a Rio team in it, then it wil be pretty big. The Campeonato Brasileiro is a League chamionship - there are 24 or 28 teams (I forget) in the "1st Division", they all play against each other, a home and away game, the top 8 teams on points go on to an elimination format playoff. To spice things up even more, the bottom 6 or 8 teams on points get themselves a ticket to the "2nd Division", with a huge loss of prestige not to mention TV and gate money... (3rd Division, god forbid, has semi-pro players and games often are delayed as they have to chase grazing goats off the field, I mention this becuase one of the "greats" - Fluminense - managed to fall all the way to 3rd a few years ago). The 1st Division Rio teams are Flamengo, Vasco, Botafogo, Fluminense and any others tha I may have forgotten.

Enjoy!

BS

McDijj, I thought Vasco beat Fluminense to win the local championship this year. Yes, you will see lots of Flamengo shirts around but they're all tourists. The fact that Flamengo are the most popular team in Brazil may also have something to do with it.

If I'm going to the Maracanã I take the Metrô which has a stop beside the ground. Much cheaper, and quicker if traffic is bad. Match tickets can be bought at the ground.

"Brazileiros are insane about futebol between watching their league, Champions league and European leagues."

Athos, I have to disagree. I think your average Brasileiro does not know that much about the European football. There is some knowledge of the Spanish league due to the large number of Brazilians that have played there but very little knowledge of the English, German leagues etc.

Also wrt national team I think a lot of the passion you see is more to do with the fact that it's the one time Brasil gets to beat the rest of the world. The situation is analagous to the inordinate amount of coverage Gugu gets. It's not that tennis is popular, it's just that it's an opportunity to show Brasil is no. 1.

Why do I say this? I spent the entire World Cup there as Brasil has always been my second team (not any more). Two things really struck me

- A complete lack of interest in games not involving Brasil, or a rival that could stop them winning the cup. When I tried to talk to waiters, cabbies etc. about other games they didn't know anything about the lesser countries. This contrasts with the UK/Ireland where people watch practically all the games purely for the football.

- A complete lack of perspective and willingness to discuss the game. I got a lot of in my face abuse during Brasil games when I offered a neutral viewpoint e.g on Rivaldo playacting vs Turkey. Also, afterwards I got abused by strangers in the street presumably because I look vaguely German. If you lack graciousness in victory it must be really tough in defeat. Which explains why 4 years later Brazilians refused to accept that France had beaten them fair and square in 98 complaining that France had paid off FIFA, Nike etc. to buy the World Cup.

I contrast this with e.g. the Dutch fans who came to Dublin when we beat them to stop them going to the World Cup. An hour later we're all in the pub together drinking and singing the night away.

I'm not denying football isn't popular but even so you can get Rio derby games such as Fla-Flu where there are less than 20k at the Marcanã. Again this wouldn't happen in the UK for a big derby. Essentially I think most Brazilians are insane about winning at football rather than watching football itself.

Just my $0.02.

Ardgneas,

You got to remember that I am depending on a tour bus guide for my info. I watched a red and black stripe home team play in the first round of the National. I assumed they had won the State Title because they were playing in the Nationals. But, if you say that both the winner and runner up get to go ... then I stand corrected.

McDIJJ

Ardgneas,

You're not too far off. Unfortunately, the professional directors in Brazil have bled national football dry.

To start with there are a ridiculous number of fixtures - this year, for example the Copa and the Brasileirao (Brazilian League Championship) are both going on AT THE SAME TIME, while some state championships are still wrapping up, and some teams are also playing in Libertadores. It gets ridiculous when one team has to play 3 or four matches in a week, and it's even happened that one team wound up with 3 matches ON ONE DAY, in two different countries! Anything to make an extra buck. The result - mediocre football, burned-out players, and lackluster fans. No wonder only 20,000 fans show up for a Fla-Flu, they know there will be another one in a month and anyway, one or both teams are probably using their reserves.

Add to that the fact that security around the stadium is pretty bad, the stadiums haven't been renovated in a million years, and the clubs treat their supporters like dirt, so no wonder most people, if they give a fig about the game, would rather watch on TV.

As for the national team, the "Selecao" which used to be the pride of Brazil has become a joke. Prior to the 98 disaster, there were already all kinds of scandals, but it really came into the open during the leadup to Japorea. Players were being capped for no other reason than to inflate their trade value, in a kick-back deal between club directors and the national coach and club. To illustrate what I mean for the non-footy fans, what happened was that Club A would pay off the national team to take on one of their second-string players for a few games - capping him - that would boost the palyer's trade value because presumably, if he was capped he must be good, then Club A would sell the player to some unwitting European team. The british, especially, got suckered... although I hate to say it, my EX-idol, Christian, probably got his cap just so he could be sold to PSG. Furtherore, the real TOP players have a bad habit of saving their best play for their club teams (why not, they're getting paid zillions there) and sleepwalking for the Selecao. In the old days, they played for pride (and fame, of course). Nowadays, it's all bucks. In addition to this, the Selecao was (and still is) playing games against whoever would pay them for the "privilige" of having a match. So, while everyone else was having real warm-up matches, the Selecao was playing ICELAND!, THAILAND!!, and MORROCO!!! to warm up for Japorea. BTW, as happy as I am about the "Penta", Brazil won because the other European players were also all worn out from too many fixtures (Brazilian-based players were all on break in May - not this year though!), because they got a suspiciously lucky draw, and because FIFA insists upon using "balanced" refs instead of the best ones, just IMHO.

Anyway, back to my rant, you're absolutely right that "modern" Brazilian fans cheer mostly because the players are dressed in gold and green - they'd cheer circus fleas if they wore the "Canarinho".. heck, they cheer Guga. In the 70's and 80's they had losing teams at the Cup, but they cheered them on anyhow because of their excellent football. And our opponents were also admired. Nowadays....

BS

P.S. Notwithstanding what I wrote above, Les Bleus suck! They didn't deserve to win '98, and Merci Senegal! ;-)

OK, so I *DO* go on about Brazilian footy, but I'll admit that I'm still passionate - about how football was when I was a kid....

Feel free not to bore yourself further by reading this, but let me tell one more story to whoever is still interested:

Believe it or not, in Brazil when a major Division 1 team gets a bad result, they run to the civil courts !!! to get the game overturned under one ridiculous pretext or another. The Fluminense case about 7 years ago was the worst - not to go into the whole gory detail, they got relegated one year, managed to get re-instated in court! back to Division 1, got relegated the next year, sued again, reinstated again, relegated AGAIN, finally this time went to Division 2 and then sucked so badly that they were relegated straight to Division 3. But then the next year, thanks to all the other clubs that felt that they had a right to sue at the drop of a hat, the entire championship was cancelled and a rump "invitational" chamionship was held. Not to mention the fact that FIFA threatened to keep Brazil out of the World Cup if the clubs didn't do what the top commisioners wanted... coincidentally, Joao Havelange, the head of FIFA at the time is the father-in-law of the top commisioner of Brazilian football, Ricardo Teixeira. Even more coincidentally, the rump championship was named "Copa Joao Havelange" in his so-called "honor".

Much to everyone's suprise, a former second division team - Sao Caetano - came out of nowhere to reach the finals - truly exhibiting teamwork and the beautiful game. God forbid they should win, so the directors blatantly fixed the finals (ref calls a non-existent penalty in the 4th minute of overtime during the home game and the commisioner CANCELS the away game while Sao Caetano was winning). Needless to say, there was a huge outcry, so for the next year (2001), the directors "restart" the old Brasileirao championship, invitation only, disinviting Sao Caetano and inviting 3rd Division Fluminense! Another outcry, Sao Caetano invited back (vice champions again, but at least this time they lost fairly) but by now the Brasileirao league swells to 28 teams (it used to be 14), so the entire schedule for the championship comes to some 500 games... and now no team without a super-deep bench (i.e. lots of money, in other words one of the old established teams) can consistently win becuase there's just way too many games. And this is just the SHORT verion of all the bullshit that happened!

This is why Brazilians don't really care about the professional games anymore - half are rigged, there's too many of them, and anything significant that happens gets overturned in back-room deals anyhow. Add to that players that trade teams whenever they (or their agents) sniff an extra real, and fan loyalty is about 0. And don't get me started about MY team (Sport Clube Internacional de Porto Alegre), who sold out their last shred of dignity in 99....

Rant over for good!

BS

BS
You have to admit giving up 1 goal in the run of play in 7 games was not bad. Eric Cantona was the only good forward except he was not selected.
I have to agree, I was very surprised by the penta but Brasil seems to always produce a bunch of good players. Damn I even root for Brazil these days.
So where does Gremio fit? I thought they were POA's team. Elizabeth at Carmen was rooting for Gremio, but then again she is also a SuperSonics fan.

Yeha, yeah, but look who they played: Turkey, China, Los Ticos, Belgium !??! Puh-leaze.... The only real teams the faced were England and Germany and they both turned out to be old and over-rated. Actually, Turkey was a suprise, of all the "spoiler" teams, they were the ones that truly deserved to get where they did, I betcha they would have given Germany a run for the money as well.

Gremio - my arch-rival team. Porto Alegre has two teams - Inter and Gremio. When you're born, you're either one or the other... usually all the aunts and uncles in the family rush to the hospital to be the first to dress the baby in the "correct" team issue baby clothes (they do exist, believe it or not... heck I've even seen team micro-calcinhas (panties), I could never convince my wife to wear my team's...). Anyway, Inter is red and white, while Gremio is Blue, Black, and White. Porto Alegre is split about %50-%50, although Rio Grande do Sul is predominantly Inter (Inter fans are called Colorados, Gremio's are called all kinds of things, but they call themselves Gremistas). If you want to start a fight, show up in the wrong bar on gameday wearing the wrong colors.... To make things even more divisive, back during the Farroupilha Revolution (1840's), when Rio Grande told the Emperor of Brazil where to stick it, the Rebels wore Red and the Imperialists wore Blue... and memories last a LONG time in Rio Grande do Sul. In addition to this, Inter (traditionally Italian) was the first club in Brazil to admit black players, and Gremio (traditionally German) of course immediately made all kinds of racist ephithets. I'm German, white as can be, but, thank the football gods, I was born Colorado! So there you go, a friendly rivalry that's been going on for almot 100 years... On the bright side, even when my team is not doing so well, we can always make fun of Gremio and pray for them to do worse... and we won the last two derbys - GreNal. As long as we win the Grenais, who cares about the rest of the season? ;-)

Anyway,as you can see, most Brazilians have a love-hate relationship with their own team and a hate-hate relationship with the rival!

BS

BTW, my wife's ENTIRE family are Gremistas, I suffer tremendously whenever I visit my inlaws, but I call them up from the US every time we win a GreNal and razz them, so it all balances out. For the past two years, I've been paying to send my nephew to football clinic (he's 9 and pretty damn good) - I offered to send him to Inter's school (make him a real footballer) but of course my sister-in-law protested... Inter's stadium is by the river (Beira-Rio) and the pratice fields are flooded whenever the river rises..."What you want to drown my son in your godamn swamp?!?". OK, I have to admit it, I actually give money to GREMIO to improve my nephew's game.... the shame!

The Brasileiros didn't have the best players but they won. They were opportunistic. I think they might have had trouble with some of the more athletic teams like Nigeria or Cameroon. I think the gap between the top countries of the yeter year(Europe and South America) and the rest of the world has narrowed, as evidenced by the recent World Cup.

Badseed, so when Brasil played the Germans in the Copa, who did you root for?

Brasil, of course! I had my shaven dome painted green and yellow...... ;-)

I love the fact that the Dutch support "good footie" regardless of who plays it. That's why I support the Dutch "selecao" ...

Seeing Holland lose to Argentina in 1978 was one of the most painful losses in my lifetime and I am not even Dutch. If only the ball had gone in instead of hitting the post in the dying seconds of regular time. Forgot the guy's name, wearing no 11, very good player, left footer.

BS
About 1978, so who offered the most money to Peru? Brasil or Argentina. Well Argentina won only 6-0.

hi athos!if you had asked for the 74 team i would have known for sure,but 78 i think it was willie van der kerkhof.any body knows how the new brazilian championship will work?as i understood it it will be one home,one away game.

Iggy:

Yeah, the Brasileirao will be one home, one away for each possibale pair of teams - resulting in 500+ games! Insane....

Athos:

Yep. The real mytsery is, for all teh bullshit we all know happens in football, why do we always keep coming back for more? ;-)

BS

Iggy
No 11 was Rensenbrink, he was not playing for Ajax (maybe Anderlecht in Belgium). Smooth player but played only one world cup as 1974 Dutch team was so loaded, all Ajax players except for 1 midfielder.
1978 broke my heart. That SOB Mario Kempes played well for 3 weeks in his entire career.
I am surprised so many follow the Brazilian championship. I always thought it was second tier.

1978 broke my heart; Semi-final 1998 vs Arg broke my heart; semi-final 2000 vs Italy broke my heart; qualifying 2002 broke my heart ...

Those damn Dutch women. Breaking my heart all the time ...

Two of the most beautiful women I've met were Dutch. Met a girl in Sumatra from Eindhoven. What a goddess she was.

Book_guy, I wish we (Americans) were as progressive as the Dutch were...we still cling to our Puritanical legacies...

Guys:

The "ClockWork Orange" was sorely missed at Japorea, FIFA has got to stop loading up the Cup with second-tier teams at the expense of the European and South American Federations. And the '94 quaterfinal game with Brazil was a classic, which I remember fondly. IMHO, it's the last time that Brazil played a good game at the WC against a worthy opponent (ie. there have been other worthy opponents, but not good games.. or vice-versa).

In other news, my beloved (bitch of a team) Inter/RS is at the TOP of the Brasileirao table, first time in 5 years. Then again it's only the 3rd round, but gather ye rosebuds while ye might....



BS



(Message edited by badseed on April 12, 2003)

Any body have the web address of a site that an English speaking guy can keep current of the Brazil Football scores?

McDIJJ

I was watching futebol brasilerio on Fox Sports World today, and three women were the referees for the (men's league) match. When the crowd disagreed with an offsides call, they started chanting, "Pu-ta, pu-ta..."

For Brazilian soccer scores, try O Globo on Line: oglobo.globo.com
Is in portuguese, but shouldn't be too difficult to read the team names and scores. Just a shot in the dark for me since I don't follow soccer, but should help you.

Periodically, this site has South American scores: Fox Sports World<br>

Btw, the woman officiating crew did a great job. The replays vindicated their calls.game.

Badseed must be celebrating. Gremio is on the verge of descender de primeira divisao. They have to win and are on FSW's Futebol Brasileiro this week (week of 12/15) playing the Corinthians.