I am 100% with Thumper on the subject. When the girl tells me $300 within a half hour of meeting her then I am not interested. Even if she is drop-dead gorgeous. I want a girl that I can spend some time with, then as Thumper points out you can make the negotiation fun.

My experience has shown that I will end up having a much better time with the girl willing to hang out.

Obviously we all do what we think will provide us the best time when in Rio. At this point all I really am thinking about is that I will be at Help on Friday night.

It is absolutely silly to think that you have game picking up a woman at Help!

If you know the price and you are trying to lower the price it shows that you are cheap! Not that you are a player or you are trying to treat the woman with respect! Why in the world would a woman working at Help think having her fee negotiatied down is fun!

For Thumper
"Trying to lower her price is treating her like a street whore!"

Prophetg, if you reread my posts, you will notice that I didn't say that I tried to lower a girl's asking price. In fact, I never even mentioned negotiating a price.

What I said was that if you dont want to pay her high price for all night, try and schedule her for an afternoon tryst, which should be more affordable.

Prophetg negotiation price is the Brazilian way, regardless of what you are buying. Of course not in situations where price is already fixed like in a metered taxi, stores etc.
So no one is offended when you try to negotiate, and if you are good at it it's actually fun.
And whether the girl likes you or not plays a great role in pricing and service received, especially when she is not hard-core.

Prophetg, or anyone else thinking that paying say 200R is being cheap,

How many girls asking for US$200 or 100euros really thinks she's going to get it? Or better written, don't you think it's possible that many times, it not most of the time, (and even if it's only seldom) a Help girl asks for these amounts, she's not just fishing to see if she's got a dumb gringo, or an ugly American/Euro in her sights?

I offer that when a girl quotes a price like that, odds are she doesn't expect that amount. She's maybe be very happy taking R200 and closing the deal. It's too bad some men don't allow themselves the opportunity to find out, to test back before paying the first amount thrown out there.

Yes, but the point is some of these girls actually do make that kind of money (100 or even 200US$/euro), simply due to the supply/demand mechanism.
Most girls (80%) are in the 150 - 250 R$ range. But they will also start quoting 100$US/300R$, but happily go for a 200 R$ all-nighter, since they know virtually no-one will pay 300R$ for them, except the occasional sucker/newbee.
The top girls won't, and why should they since there are allways enough guys willing to pay theire price.

Hemp, SF_Hombre and I were sitting at TA last night, watching the B-team working the tables before the bell and Hemp mentioned one of the super hotties. R$400 for one hour, covered BJ, no kissing. She is always busy.

Then, Hemp pointed out this amazingly ugly fat, old puta who I have seen every night that I've ever been at TA/Help, but have not once seen get into a taxi with a monger.

What do these two have in common? They fuck for money and apparently, at least one or two people are willing to meet the price and grab a taxi.

My point? I've seen guys get garotas for R75 at TA. I've also seen guys fork over US$350 for a garota inside Help. So, I can say with some certainty that, depending on the garota, the range at TA/Help is anywheres between, say $30 and $350, for between one hour and all night.

For me, the average price for a Help garota has been about R$200. A few were 250, a few were 150/175, so average is about R$200. I only do all-nighters, which usually means a 9:00 - 11:00 wake up, sex and perhaps cafe de manha, then out the door. My latest programa ended around noon when I got her ass on the bus in front of Kice Sucos. The shortest, was the freak from Thanksgiving who wanted to take home my used, jizz-filled condom to look at in her microscope. I kicked her out around 4:30 A.M. after a couple of hours of sex.

Negotiation is the name of the game. I've seen bad methods - there's a black hump-backed guy who walks around in Help, he'll flash 3 fingers at the hotties (I hope 300 reals and not dollars) and tends to get a lot of no's. The worst method is to simply say "yes" at the first price mentioned.

I've seen guys negotiate for the bulk of the night as well. If you have the fortitude, pick a garota early in the night, do the interview, etc and once you decide you want her, negotiate a little but not hard. If she won't come down quickly, just walk away for a half hour or so, and then come back. Remember, prices go down as the evening progresses.

The best way to get an instant discount is something along the lines of what Thumper said. Remember, a lot of Help girls work the beach in the afternoon, or work in dive termas/massage places, where the prices are much lower than TA/Help. So, if negotations don't go your way, pull out your cell phone and ask her for her number, and say you'll give her a call tomorrow afternoon. She'll see that you know your shit, and understanding that she'll get jack shit the next day, or a discount to her night price if she is lucky, you'll get an almost-guaranteed R$25-50 drop in price immediately.

Tricks are the name of the game. Hey, the worst thing that can happen is you take an ugly garota home, or you settle for a 5 instead of a 7-8. It still beats jerking off in the US, or dealing with some bitch American wife/girlfriend.

Pickups just before or around doorbell time for agreed 1 or 2 hours is also a good option. 1 hour should go for 50-100, 2 hours 100-150 at most. Done it many times and sometimes 1 hour is plenty if you just want to pop especially if you live close to help and I have gotten some stunners that I never would have had for less than 300 or at all later in the night. The extra session is like a bonus income for the night as they know they can return and it makes them think different about the whole deal. Aside from that is funny to meet them inside later same night in your quest for another unit. Also nice way to cover a lot of pussy ground if you only have short time in town. Habana

Last trip I grabbed a young one at the Terraço and offered her 75 reais, told her I'd keep her no more than an hour, and just until I popped. She hesitated at first but I pointed out that it was like free money since she'd be back in time to get some guy to pay 250 for an all-nighter. She went for it.

That night I was tired and just wanted to get off, relax, and get some sleep. Other times I've grabbed a girl early for 75 reais and then come back later to pick up an all-nighter.

I agree; negotiation is part of the fun when done right.

As I suspected; the well known cheapo :-) Bwana does the same. It's not what they expect and the need for sudden mobilisation of brain cells make them puzzled so I agree; sometimes you have to help them understand what a great deal you are offering them.. Point is that done with a smile, it works quite often but not guaranteed.

Wow talk about being a cheap fucker....in a good way. I think that even the most tight fisted monger on the board would say that $25 to get laid is a bargin.

Yeah , there are woman who will drop there price from 300R to 200R because the demand for them warrants its. These are the ladies FlHobbyers and Thumper are talking about!

However some of us like to go for the ladies that will not drop their price because the demand for them is so high that they do not have to! These are the ladies FooledAgain1 and I talking about!

Again my point is missed. Prophetg - I'm talking about the hottest girls in there. The ones you think are the hottest, the ones someone else thinks are the hottest, any girl in there. Each very well may be asking for R400 or R500 or R300 just to see the reponse. She very well may have a strategy of "I won't go for less than R200, but I'll first throw out R400 and see if he's a sucker... If he will pay R300 great... If he will only pay R200, well that's fine but only after I ask for more."

One never knows until he flirts a little and negotiates.

Like I said, I go home solo from Help many times, I'm very picky.

There are girls there that always (almost) get picked for there asking price (300+ R$). So they never lower theire price.

The guys who stay at my apartment pay anything from R$ 80 to R$ 350 for a Help girl. Could not find out why these differences, it might be partially the quality of the girl, partially the guy's negotiation skills.

Personally, I don't go to Help, so I have no eperience.

I am surprised though about you guys getting R$ 75 for a quickie with top(?) girls. If that price is available before Help opens, then it should also be available in Meia Pataca and Hooker beach!?

I met a Centaurus girl at MP who would not budge below R$ 300 for short time. I once met a 18 year girl at Frank's, with perfect 32 D bra size, who would insist on R$ 300 for short time. She said she made R$ 600 per night for going out twice.

My roommate took her home, at the end of the night. After some sleep in the morning, I negotiated with her. I could not get her below R$ 200 for 1 hour, even though she was inside my apartment already, naked. No overhead, no wasted time to back to the bar. I gave up and paid up.


I have bad feelings about the strategy of hogging a girl for 2 hours before talking about money. That way it is so late that she almost has no other option then to stay with you, no matter what price you offer. This is the positive side for you. But the negative side is that the girl will wisen up and become more hard core. After a few experiences like that she will learn to negotiate price early on, a behavior that I find understandable but that you despise.

A few more questions to the Help specialists:

is it true that there are periods where fresh non pro talent comes in? someone told me that now is college vacation time and out of town college girls stream in!?? that would almost be a reason for me to interrupt my 5 year record of not entering Help.

what is the girls' attitude towards Brazilians? I had little success with the prettier girls in Help because they all think I am Brazilian, and seems they are not happy about Brazilians. I need to learn to cultivate a foreign accent, or maybe I should start speaking to them in English!??

FLhobbyer -- That`s not my experience in Help, i`ve yet to see a girl someone has pulled from Help for 150R that i would go with for free. I`D much rather pay 300R for the stunners i`ve pulled. The point Prophetq, coats001 and i are trying to make is that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and although you find the girl the hottest one in Help it doesn`t mean everyone else does, does she have mass appeal ? Mass appeal is barginning power, the truly beautiful don`t have to go for less than 300R, they have a line of guys at their feet. I`ve been in Help with guys from the board and i`ve seen their version of a hot girl, their hot girl stands alone most of the night rarly approached by anyone, is it any wonder why their hot girl accepted 200R, that`s our point. I`ve seen this senerio played out at Help a 1000 times.

BS;

The prices I quoted are the same at MP and Hooker beach. If not you overpay ask GCL. Another ting is that girls working MP and the beach are not the same and usually more ugly + the “bonus for the night effect” does not come into play. Lowest I had was 50 for 2 hours at the beach, but then again she was totally broke and I would not give her better more than 6 in looks. Sex was OK though. You live there, you should know this. For the record I also splurge now and then and don’t claim to get special prices. I would say on average I end up on price levels as Catocony described that includes some of the best girls. 300 was paid once for a trophy with bad performance :-(

As long as you have a good time, who cares what other people are paying. If I pay a girl 200R for all night and the next evening another guy gets her for 100R, I could really give shit, as long as I felt I got my moneys worth.

Now as far as beauty goes, its all subjectve. One man's 10 is another guys 5. As long as YOU like the way the girl looks and she turns you on, then fuck what other guys think.

I agree w/Fooldagain and Thumper. I've paid 200 dollars, not reals, for an 18 year old Help stunner and continued to party away the night there. Everytime I left to piss or buy a drink some Euro guy would beg her to leave by promising her more than that. Incidently, I don't "bargain" with the girls and pay whatever they 'reasonably' ask for. The girls that my friends have pulled for 150 or even 200, I usually won't do. I always pay 300 even if they never quote a price, and they're always happy. I could care less what Tom Dick and Harry pay, or if she tells herself "I'd have done him for less." I'm happy, and I know plenty of guys who do, in fact, throw more money at the garotas then I do.

Help is totally hit or miss and different for everybody almost every night. That's why it's a great place. I've had girls start at R500 and take them home for R200. I've had some offer R250 and I don't even bother negotiating and take it. I have a rule at R200 that I rarely break unless I get a really good feeling. BTW, that R250 girl was fantastic. I've even gone in July low season and told the girls I don't do Help girls, only termas girls. That one got me a freebie. Face it, it's a free market smorgasbord of pussy. Anything can happen and usually does. What I don't appreciate, however, are the guys that throw around the cash as if all gringos have money to burn. That's a problem for all of us. But, if I see a girl that has that certain "thing" about her, I'm probably going to pony up and pay. Like most guys, I don't get down there as often as I'd like and I'm going to have the best time I can, even if I go home $20 to $50 lighter on top of the $2500 to $3000 total cost of the trip.

One night at TA (the patio bar in front of Help disco), I closed the place down. As the lights went down, and everyone at my table was leaving, I noticed a familiar face sitting alone at a table nearby. Approaching her, I recognized her as one of the bundababes from Playboy's videos. Realizing that we had sessioned before, she told me she wanted to fuck. I told her I had a GF sleeping in my apartment and wasn't really looking to session. She said she'd just left Help without getting a client, and wanted some money.

She said she'd do a nearby love motel for $150R + $30R for the hotel. I passed.

She then dropped to $100R. I passed again.

She then dropped to $50R. Intrigued, I consented. We took a cab for 2 blocks and had a great session.

I guess the moral of the story is that you never know what can happen at Help.

I agree that people should do whatever that makes them self happy in your monger hobby and life in general. There is one dilemma though; this is fine as long as your behaviour don’t influence other people’s life or possibilities. Maverick; “I always pay 300 even if they never quote a price, and they're always happy.” Sure they are happy, and laugh as they leave your place. I guarantee you; once you overpay within a few days all her friend will know the price and ask for the same. Been there done that, seen it happen to others too. Seriously; you don’t get better sessions. Period. Sure, you are not moving the pussy price alone, but if everyone acted like you that would definitely make our vacations more expensive and that I don’t like. Performance would probably suffer too. Last time down there I went to help 5-6 days a week for 11 straight weeks, do the math yourself. Some people get an ego boost of showing that they have plenty of money, but your behaviour is just stupid and short term egoistic. If you want to be nice to the people down there, join a charity org. and give the money to people that really need it if you money doesn’t matter. Except from that I really hope you and everyone have a good time there really, but your pricing is dead wrong. Pls show some responsibility man :-)

I hope for all your guys sake Maverik doesnt get to RIo too often.

If R$300 is good, think how happy they will be with R$3000? Why wouldnt you just pay that? (Answer--because it is too much) So then we agree there has to be a price that is too much. So what if your screwing up and ruining the market?

I agree with GCL and DG.

You guys owe to the rest of the future mongers the duty of keeping the prices low so everyone can enjoy the Brazilian Eye Candy. As a guide I've seen time and time again dudes at Help wayyyyy overpaying the Ho's but often times they are not my clients so my opinion is not appreciated. Some learn and some dont and it has nothing to do with how much money you make at home but your ability to maintain the integrity of the mongering environment.

After an almost 1 year absence from the boards and the Rio scene I'm finally coming back and back in action. rio-turist.com and all my services as a guide and cool trips to Angra and Buzios are back on. I also have great contacts for apartments in Rio at the best prices and locations.

Take care

Jose

Well I feel that I have to take the contrarian view here. Any negotiated price is a function of two variables.

1. How badly the buyer wants to buy
2. How badly the seller wants to sell

Sure, you can play games and pretend that you don't want to buy, as can they. But at the end of the day, in aggregate, that's what the price is.

In the case of Help, a motivated seller is a good thing, but if you are a motivated buyer, then your price may not be so good. Personally, even in my hey day, I never went to Help looking for sex. Just to hang. So I am unmotivated buyer. I will always pay less, and I have done so.

But there are many guys that go to Help just to have sex. These are motivated buyers, and they will tend to pay more. There is an interesting dynamic as the evening wears on. The buyers become even more motivated, and the sellers become more motivated as well. Because of this, it is not clear to me ON AVERAGE that prices go down as the evening wears on. Remember I said ON AVERAGE. I am sure that everyone has a particular example, but I am trying to analyze the larger economics of the situation.

BT,

I realize that you may not have been motivated when you entered, but things always change. I know that I have entered unmotivated, but after seeing a particular girl, become very motivated.

My bet is you have too.

Later.

From a similar discussion on another board:

About ruining the market for others:

Please take the following remarks as an honest opinion that may not be politically correct, but does reflect reality. This is a free market. You spend your money to get what you want, and others spend their money to get what they want. How you affect the market prices for others is not a consideration. This would be like an older person complaining that young good-looking guys are ruining it for them. Everybody uses what they have to get what they want.

About the girls laughing at the sucker:

Nobody is talking here about what they may think of you as long as you get the service you want.

About the sucker throwing away money:

I have not heard anyone talk about how stupid people are who fly first class to Bangkok. They spend more than quarter of a million Bahts on the ticket just to get better service for the ride. It's their money.

I'm not into needlessly throwing money at girls, but I'm also not into waiting until 4:00 AM to see what's available and try to score with some leftover. I've watched many an hombre at Help "pick up" a girl later in the night, and for the most part it's not any different that doing the same in TJ, at CC or AB. Going up to a girl and asking "how much" is not my style. I can do that any day in TJ. That's why I prefer not to even mention money with the chick and just hang all night with her. I'm not looking simply for sex, and I've seen many guys strike a deal (even early) and take the girl out of the club. If that's all I wanted to do, I agree negotiating is well worth it. So I'm not trying to drive up prices, but when a girl asks for 300, I gladly pay it. I'm not going to squabble over a few bucks, and if you think that some "collective mongering price capping" is going to influence the effective quoting price, I suggest there are way too many guys out there (from Europe for the most part) who pay way, way more than that. Has nothing to do with inflating ego, I just don't ever want to squabble over a few bucks. If they ask for 150, or 200, I pay that. Sorry.

Awww Maverick, don't spoil the fun for the rest of us. R300 is about $100 give or take. You can get FS from a US gringa that will BBBJ and eat your ass for $200 to $250. Now, with airfare, hotel, ground transportation, etc., you're really not getting value for your dollar at R300+ a spin. You might as well stay in the US and do internet escorts. The fun of Brazil is that it's inexpensive by comparison. If people throw around the dough like that, it may not be for too much longer. At least try to get their price down! I always tell them that termas girls cost R150 and the girl only gets to keep R100 (numbers are approximate), so anything better than that is good for them. R200 is tops unless she is very special and only on very rare occasion. Nobody likes to squabble, but people have to be sensible about what they pay.

Many people, many people hobby in Brasil because it is not the same cost as the US. It is not US100 per session or per BBBJ or what ever.

I've never had P4P in the US - never. Probably wouldn't like the typical product (event, not girl) anyway. To me, P4P and itnernational travel go hand-in-hand.

Viewing paying R300 as fine because it's easy and not a lot of money (back home), unless it's for that girl that really does get R300 every session (and IMO their isn't that many of them, but I agree with mav that when it's needed it's justified) is as much that stereotypical tourist thing as going around screaming in English, ignoring local culture, thinking of locals as lessers, or even caring that there's no good American-type food to be found.

A stripper in Vegas will blow in your ear for 100 bucks (for 2 songs), and I hope you're joking about escort thing (you're right--if the escort is a crack whore). Here's my bottom line: after four trips to Rio, I've spent a total of about 20 or 21 nights at Help. No expert, but I've had enough interaction to know what works for me. After several of the girls quoted me 300, and me countering with a polite objection to that, I finally realized "what the Hell do I care--it's not worth it to me to play this game like I'm trying to buy an Elvis painting in Tijuana." Others might have to be more penny-wise; I don't need to be. And I tend to buy the girls drinks too. Except when they ask for those special 7 real ones. That's too much!

I just don't see the sense in paying 300 at Help if you don't need to. I've yet to have a garota turn down a lower offer. Never have I not gotten the girl I wanted because my offer was too low (under 300 always).

200R is my RECORD high price for TLN from Help, and I'm not proud of that price either. 150R is plenty for an allnighter with an eyeopener.

To put it in perspective? 250R is approximately one month entire salary for a minimum wage earner. In USA, a month's minimum wage is $850USD.

So when you pay $300R, you're effectively paying the Brazilian equivalent of $1000USD. To each their own, but I've never paid a Grand to have my grand gland grabbed. Those Help Hoes that ask 300 are already tainted goods in my books. The fact that they know enough to ask that much makes them damaged goods to me. YMMV, but I've had consistently better results from the less jaded girls who don't know enough to ask this much.

I'm not slamming ya Maverick, just trying to open your eyes to a different perspective. You're missing the better GFE available from the less jaded garotas who don't have the guts to ask $300R. And if you think my bundababe for $50R is a leftover, keep thinking that. She's smoking hot except for that gap between her two front teeth!

DG,
I watched the bundababe video about a week ago and have had dreams about her every night since. I sure hope I run into her tomorrow night.
SL

ok only way to settle this debate...lets watch who is in town at the same time..we need one el cheapo and one picky big spender...the two will agree on a babe and off the el cheapo goes to pick her up for R150 TLN..if he succeeds those of us you have been guilty of over paying the R300 will bow down and never do it again....If he fails then the el cheapos must agree..some of these hotties are worth R300....

As I will be there soon , I will agree to this experiment...I know sweet will be there also.hell he is there more than those that live there...he can be the el cheapo and me the picky bitch...

anybody up for side bets please let me know..I will give 2-1 odds ...

For the life of me, i don't know why women agree to fuck you Layne.

I'd need one helluva lot more than 300R for you to cram that Kentucky Kielbasa of yours into me. Wait - lemme rephrase that - aw hell u know what i mean

I'll pay the R300 if you post good pics of the micro-spinner. She haunts me....

Just try to suffer through the CBJ.

I can confirm that DG's BundaBabe is a wonder to behold, and she cost me 200 for TLN (thanks, again, DG, for the tip). As to Layne's wager, shit. there's not a garota in Help that will do him or Sweet for under 300. Now, put GCL in there (OK, put him on the Terrace) and I guarantee you he'll walk away with that hottie for under 300 (nobody said 150 was an average price, Layne).

BTW, here in Bangkok (where I am now) I'm getting TLN hotties for $37. I could pay more, but why?

Not that this is the forum but GCL showed me a few of his favorite sex apartments in Centro the other other day. The first was R60/R80 (half hour/hour), the second the same and the last I think was R50/R70. I like the Roman Emperor selection method - the donna sets you in a chair in the entry way or living room and then each garota comes in and introduces herself, then leaves. I call it Roman Emperor style because you're effectively giving a thumbs up/thumbs down to each girl.

Now, I'm not saying I'm a convert to the GCL school of mongering, but I can see the benifits of going to centro an hour or so earlier than usual, hitting an apartment (they're quite nice, actually) and kicking out a warm-up nut for R50 and then cruising on over to your terma of choice.

I will take that bet my friend...GCL it is... but no terrace ... under R300 on the terrace is easy even for me...has to be inside help..because we all know the shadows wont enter the terrace area...I will even increase the allowance to R200...

Layne, what is the bet? That I cant get a top shelf girl in Help for R$200 or less?

On one hand, I think I can do it, although I havent really tried that often to negotiate anything there. I can tell you there was a very hot chick this week who wouldnt budge from R$600. Of course, a girl asking for that already has an attitude and I wouldnt recommend her to someone if she dropped her price to R$100.

If you have to have a bet to prove that you can get a top shelf girl in Help for R$200 or less that proves that you guys do not regularly do it. You usually take the bottom and mid shelves ladies.

So the guys who pay the R300 for Top shelves will not have any influence on your market price at all. You simply select from a different pool!


BY the way for thoughs of you who don't know. Top shelve woman in the USA start at $5000 and up!

Only $5,000? Sign me up!

So your saying that I never go with a top shelf girl, nor does Layne or Deeg? Sorry Prophet, but you dont know what your talking about.

In the USA they go for $1000 or less depending upon the venue. Can be as high as $5K...again depending upon the venue.

I can vouch for Gcl and the others on that one. Also, I think $5000 is a bit over the top. You can have an hour with a porn star for under $2000 and the super-hottie model types in NYC were between $600 and $1000, maybe up to $1500 for "legit" swimsuit and lingere models. $5000 might get you a "legit" supporting actress, but don't hold your breath.

I can personally vouch that GCL has top shelf girls that he is not paying 300R for.

So Brasil is still a bargain, regardless of the occasional hottie charging 300R$ or even 200 U$/Euro for an allnighter. Especially when you consider the level of service you recieve
But I heard about Brazilian supermodels charging 1000's of R$ as well.

I guess that compared to a seasoned wool-puller such as Profitq, most of us are just idiots who fuck ugly women for cheap.

On the other hand, having met a couple of dozen Rio Hombres at this point, I can say that most of us are in the same ballpark when it comes to price. Guys like me, Layne, Ablissman and a few others seem to stick to spinners whenever possible. Other guys like bigger girls, or blondes, or mullatas, something along those lines. Hemp's garotas must be certified in CPR, just in case something happens in the cabini, but other than a few small requests like that, we all tend to behave similarly from a financial standpoint.

Ah, cabina is finally retired.

Throwing our US dollars around in foreign countries is never a good idea. It taints the waters, and leads garotas to the conclusion that a fool and his money are soon parted. There - I said it.

Pay the going rate as if you are a local, and no more.

If you're inclined to pay more - agree to half of what the garota asks, then tell her you will give her more only if you are well satisfied with her performance.

Consenting to 300R or more is foolish unless you get off on being financially abused by genetically gifted women who don't respect you.

Which begs the question - why hobby beyond the USA if that is all you want? (Spoken by a guy who can no longer hobby stateside)