Comparisons Between Rio and Sao Paulo

Taxis - In Rio the metered taxis (which means non rip off) are yellow, and in Sao Paulo, they are white. The entire scene is much more spread out in Rio, so taxis are much more expensive. For example, an expensive cab ride in Rio would be R$30 and that would be cheap to go just about anywhere in Sao Paulo. Since it is so big, you need where you are going a lot better. Have your addresses written down on a sheet of paper, then they can show the address to other taxi drivers if he gets lost. This has happened to me quite a bit. On our last trip, the driver got lost and it took 2 hours to go on a 20 minute taxi ride.

Flights - If you search carefully, you can get a very good rate flying from GIG (Rio's international airport) to SDU (Sao Paulo's domestic airport) on an airline called GOL. We paid R$119 each way, which is about 1/3rd the price of flying from SDU (Rio's domestic airport) to SDU. If you want to use the GOL web site, you need to have an American Express card.

Business - Sao Paulo is a sprawling massive city, and just like any huge city it is about business, and a lot of international business as well. This has a lot of ramifications and I will try and list a few.

Since the businessmen typically go home to their families on the weekend, the P2P scene hibernates during the weekend particularly on Sunday. The best night I have found is Thursday night. Actually, this seems true in Rio also. The Brazilians like going out on Thursday night to the P2P places, and the spend the weekends with their families.

I have found that English is spoken more extensively in Sao Paulo than in Rio, most likely since English is the language of business.

Lastly, the high end clubs are more expensive than the high end clubs in Rio. Having an expense account to entertain clients will have this effect on pricing.

The Clubs - When in Rio, I like going exclusively to the high end clubs. This would include Monte Carlo, Solarium, Centaurus, Luomo, 4x4, 65 and sometimes Praia 400. I would consider the high end clubs in Sao Paulo to be Millenium, Bomboa, Connection and Bahamas. I'm not going to exclude Cafe Foto on this list because I hate that place. The clubs in SP are more expensive, but with the increased cost comes some very attractive things. The clubs are much bigger and more spread out with higher ceilings. For me personally, one huge benefit is that the clubs are not as smokey. And they all have on site restaurants with menus that range from good to excellent. Millenium has free food from their restaurant before 5 pm and I tried the chicken parmigiana and it was excellent.

There is also more to do in the SP clubs. Connection, Bahamas,and Millenium all have pool tables. and Bahamas also has a big screen television. Bomboa has live music every night.

The facilities are extremely nice in all of the SP clubs are none are quite as small as the cabines at Luomo for example. A standard room in one of the SP clubs is roughly the same size as the party room at Luomo. That said, none of these clubs have anything as nice as the Sultan suite at 4x4.

Lodging - Sao Paulo wins hands down as far as lodging goes. The hotels are cheap. We are paying R$129/night at the Parthenon Excellence which is a block and a half from Bomboa. The hotel is brand new; has a nice restaurant downstairs; everyone speaks English; and includes internet access. They also have a gym and a swimming pool There is really no comparison with the Rio Roiss or the Debret which I stayed in a few times during my initial trips to Rio.

Going Solo - I have talked to a lot of Rio vets that have tried Sao Paulo flying solo. The results have been mixed. What I have found is because the city is so spread out, and the clubs are so big, it is much better experienced with a group of guys. At least a wing man.

Hotels - I live in Rio so I have not tried too many hotels, but I have tried the Debret and the Rio Roiss, and there is no comparison. The hotels in Sao Paulo are substantially nicer and also at a much lower price. I have stayed at least four times at the Parthenon Excellence which is a block and a half from Bomboa. It has a great restaurant downstairs, pool, gym, 24 hour room service, and in-room broadband access.

Conclusion - There are some absolutely beautiful women here same as in Rio. But it is more expensive, not outrageously so, but it is noticably more expensive for cabs, the girls and the clubs. For the added expense, the clubs are nicer, with better food, and facilities.

The cab ride from Connection to the airport cost R$150 on the meter. I couldn't believe it was so expensive.

A few comments, some in agreement, some not. Even at clubs like Connection the prices don't strike me as more than Rio, particularly when you take into account the sessions are for one hour, whereas in Rio the standard is 40 minutes (with a one-hour option). Connection is R$220 per hour; I haven't been to Rio recently, but I thought that is about what it costs for an hour at most of the termas there (??) While one might counter that there is a consumption charge of around R$50 at Connection, that consumption charge counts towards the one-hour session if you do a session (and don't apply it to other things, such as drinks). There is also free food some of the days at Connection. Cafe Millenium is a bit more expensive (although in my experience not any better), and Tivoly, where the one-hour goes for R$190 is a bit worse by conventional standards (although the girls there are on average more liberal). Bomboa and Bahamas are more expensive than the Rio termas, but are arguably better (although I prefer the cheaper places in Sao Paulo, such as Connection and Tivoly, irrespective of the fact they cost less).

There are a number of mid-level clubs that are priced at or below Rio terma prices, e.g., Tivoly, Musas, Eu e Eu (or some such thing), etc. In any event, I'm not convinced Sao Paulo is really more expensive, unless you compare the most expensive Sao Paulo clubs to the not comparable Rio Termas. Or, unless you hang at Help, and consistently pull all-nighters for R$200 or less, something that can be done in Sao Paulo, but perhaps not as easily.

The last time I was in Rio, the taxis had raised their prices considerably compared to my previous visits. I believe it now costs either the same or more to get in the door in a Rio taxi than a Sao Paulo one; however, this is based on very little recent taxi experience in Rio. Having said that it is possible Sao Paulo taxis' meters run faster, but the price differential between Rio and Sao Paulo appears to have narrowed. I myself rarely pay more than R$25 for a taxi in Sao Paulo, even to go to clubs, but YMMV literally. Then again, I use the Metro alot, including to get most of the way to Connection.

If you don't have to go the top-tier clubs, or even the terma quality equivalent clubs like Connection, there are many less expensive places in Sao Paulo that some of us like (e.g., on Rua Augusta, or other locales). Based on a vague memory of spending some time with him and others on Rua Augusta, I suspect Bluestraveller, however, prefers to stick to the higher-level stuff.

Anyway, for me Sao Paulo is no more expensive than Rio., but I tend to avoid Cafe Millenium, Bahamas, Cafe Photo and Bomboa. If those are the places one goes to, however, it then will be more expensive, but as Bluestraveller points out you probably get something extra for the extra bucks.

I wouldn't recommend taking a taxi from Connection to the International Airport on the meter, especially on a Sunday when the meters are higher. Taxis to or from the Avenida Paulista area to the airport are a fixed rate R$75; they would be much more if they ran the meter. It is possible if you ask you can get a fixed rate from Connection (you can from most other places in Sao Paulo), but I am not sure about this.

They definitely clip you when you go to the international airport. I also went to GRU from Connection and they wanted between R$150-200. I couldn't believe how fast the meter was running.

My comparison was intentionally looking at the high end options in both cities. I, honestly, know frightingly little about the low end options in Rio or in SP. One thing that I left out is that Millenium for example has far more women than 4x4 would have on a weekday night. We were at Millenium at about 10 pm and they told us that there were 200 girls working there. That was an awesome night. But still my favorite club in either city is Connection.

So Bluestraveller, is the Parthenon Excellence a good hotel for a first-time visitor to SP? Is it close to any venues other than Bomboa? Also, can one take a train to the airport instead of paying 200R for a taxi? Thanks. Looking forward to SP in Nov.

I would certainly recommend the Parthenon Excellence. Almost everyone speaks English there. It is near Bomboa, but it ia actually quite far from Connection. I have not explored the Rua Augusta scene much, but if you want convenience, there are a lot of places all within walking distance from your hotel. I don't think any of these places are as nice as Connection or Millenium.

As far as cost goes here's what I remember from memory.

Bomboa
Entrance R$132 (goes against consumption)
Room 1 hour R$70
Girl negotiated R$200-300
Total R$402-502

Millenium
Entrance R$70 (goes against consumption)
Room 1 hour R$70
Girl negotiated R$200-300
Total R$340-440

Connection
Entrance R$70 (goes against consumption)
Room + Girl 1 hour R$220
Total R$290

Centaurus
Entrance R$70 (no tourist charge not against consumption)
Girl R$150
Room 40 minutes R$50
Total R$270

The 40 minute vs 1 hour thing difference is a little of a wash because the girl gets ready in the room in SP, whereas the girl is ready to go in Rio. Plus there are no phones in Centaurus anyhow.

Are there apartment options in SP like there are in Rio? Can you get a reasonabley nice apartment in SP for say $75 to $100 per night like in Rio? This would make it far more interesting.

Actually, at Connection the consumption charge goes against the room + girl (assuming things haven't changed in the last couple of months), so if you go there, have no drinks (but possibly have some of their free food (depending on which day of the week it is), and have one session, the total cost is R$220. I've done this so I know. (Incidentally, it is the same deal at Tivoly, but with a R$190 per hour charge).

It doesn't work that way at Millenium though. The consumption charge does not go against the room there. Also, the last time I was at Millenium I ended up paying R$150 for the girl, although most I spoke with wanted R$200 (as did that girl before I offered R$150); my experience at Millenium is not extensive though, so it may be that some of the girls are asking for more, and getting it.

There is no way anyone is going to pay a friggin' R$200 for a taxi to/from the airport to/from the Parthenon Excellence unless they have newbie gringo written all over them, and even with that it would be rare indeed. The fixed fare should be around R$75 (the only reason I don't say "exactly" is because I have not specifically taken a taxi from that hotel; others located within about five minutes of there are exactly R$75). The highest fixed rate I encountered was around R$90 from the Hilton Morumbi, although this may have been for a luxury taxi--I'm not sure; it also was about a year ago, so it could have crept up slightly since then.)

The high taxi fares to/from Connection cited above reflect one of two things:
(1) a failure to ask for a fixed price to the airport from there, or
(2) the taxis are specifically taking advantage of gringos leaving Connection by not quoting a fixed fare. It may be the fixed fares only work from hotels although I suspect you can get one from Connection, particularly if you telephone for a taxi rather than use one of the sharks that hang directly outside. Indeed, it would be cheaper (but a pain in the ass) to taxi back to one's hotel, and then get a fixed fare taxi from there, than to pay some of the extraordinary prices quoted here for a direct Connection to GRU taxi.

Also relevant perhaps, when I was a newbie in Sao Paulo I had one instance where a taxi "metered" me to the airport. I have since learned that they NEVER do that, at least from a hotel, unless they think they have a live one.

With regard to the one-hour/40 minute comparison, my experience in Sao Paulo is some of the girls are ready to go when they get in the room, others shower in the room before beginning the session; I can't break down the percentages. For me though what is important is I nearly always get two shots during a one-hour session in Sao Paulo; I'm not sure that would be the case with a 40 minute session in Rio, although I usually spring for the 60 minute sessions there so I don't really know.

Val: I know of one instance where someone is going to rent an apartment, reasonably priced, for about a month; I don't know about day or week rates though. However, with the decent but not luxurious hotels starting at around $50 U.S., and the fact most are guest friendly, it would appear there really is not a need for an apartment scene like in Rio (unless I am missing something).

A little correction.. Sao Paulos domestic "local" airport is CGH (Congonhas) not SDU (Which is Santos Dumont, Rio's local airport).

The advantage of doing SDU (Rio local) to CGH (Sao paulo local) is the flights are every 30 minutes during peak times and then every hour after that.

IMO, with a population of 15-18 million people, you're gonna see and hopefully meet alot more prettier garotas (non-pros and pros).

And in general, are far less stuck up than their Carioca cousins.

But hopefully, most of the membership still sticks to Rio.

I arrived September 3rd at the international airport. After questioning the porter about cab fares to the Jardins Mercure he pulled out a book that details fixed prices to all the locations in Sao Paulo.

There was a 72R price listed for Paraiso but nothing for Jardins. The cab driver then stated the rate is 75R, which was the same price that I paid back in May 05.

During my stay I met a cab driver named Carlos, who is stationed at Al Franca/Rua Pamplona. He quoted me and another adventurer 60R for a ride to the international airport.

My friend left last Friday and myself on Sunday and the driver arrived on time with no incidents to the airport. Interestly, on my trip to the airport he turned the meter on with the # 2 displayed. The total of the metered fare was almost 75R when we arrived at the airport. However, he only ask for the 60R he originally quoted.

Carlos speaks broken english but I conversed mostly in Portuguese with him. He seemed honest, reliable, and works 24/7. If anyone is interested in his phone number just e-mail me.

Indamix: And what, may I ask, were you doing in the vicinity of Al. Franca and Rua Pamplona? :-).

There is a taxi counter just as you walk out the doors at the arrivals section of GRU. They take credit cards, and can give you the fixed fares to the various places. As before, the fixed fare to the Avenida Paulista area is R$75. Never asked them about a fixed fare to Connection though. Does some bold soul out there want to try it as an experiment (I mean just asking; I am not requesting that anyone for the sake of this board actually go straight to Connection from the airport, but hey, maybe that would be a plan too)?

Just one more thing Indamix. When are you going to report some of your findings about Sao Paulo (other than those that pertain to taxis?). I need to learn something about the casa scene from an expert.

As a disciple of the "LAGUY" adult exploration organization Sao Paulo bureau I will be reporting my findings back to the master.

Just not sure which reporting channel to utilize: updating existing topics or a full blown report. Any preference??

Whatever works best for you, Indamix. And sorry I had to leave SP shortly after you arrived. Maybe we can hook up some other time.

as BT stated above gig to cgh and back is best deal on gol and you avoid sp's int airport and major league cab ride. less # of flights but still plenty. internet fare R119 vs R250. if booking in country go see bobby at blame it on rio and they can get you the internet price. taxi drivers in sp dumber than dogshit. expect them to get lost. we took 2 taxis to bahamas one afternoon. first one--20 minutes -R23. my taxi-1 hour, 40 minutes and turned of meter when finally he admitted he was lost. paid him same R23.

LA Guy,

Do you know of any other hotels that are closer to Millenium and Connection? I like the Parthenon Excellence but it is a little bit of a haul particularly to Connection paricularly if there is traffic.

BT: Off hand no. I would have to put my deep thinking cap on to come up with something near Connection (along the lines of look at a good map and start checking out the solmelia and accor websites for starters). I would probably use the same strategy for Millenium, but suspect it would be easier. Maybe if you catch me sometime we can figure this out together.

Bluestraveller - I stayed at Parthenon St. Lawrance. It is right next to the Paraiso Metro station. I took metro to Clinica and walked down to Bomboa. The taxi from the hotel to Millenium at 9pm was 10R. It was about 7 minutes away. I didn't make it to connection this trip. You can hop on the metro and go south on blue line three stations and then take a taxi for about 10R to Connection. Clinica Entares is couple of stations south of the Paraiso station. You can get anyway on the metro for $2.1R. Just look up the address on the web and see where it is located and figure out which metro is the closest and then take taxi from there. Not only is much cheaper, you get there quicker without the traffic jam. The room was a little bigger than Parthenon the Excellence. I stayed there because they had a better price @ 90R/114R for 7-10 Sept. I use to hate the cost of transportation in SP but learned to use the metro and bus, SP is really much more fun without all those tourist!

I was going to take the bus back to the international airport but had a hard time finding the bus stop when this guy said he had a taxi and would take me to the airport for 40R. Sure enough he had a nice white taxi and drove well to the international airport, took 40R, and thank me and gave me his card for next trip. That is the cheapest I ever paid for a ride to the airport in a taxi. The bus is 24R. I don't have his card right now but can post later. 150R from Connection to the airport was a ripoff!

BT, I would suggest either the Parthenon-St. Germain (in Jardins) or the Parthenon-Times Square (in Moema). St. Germain is much closer to Bomboa and reasonably close to Millenium. Times Square is very close to Bahamas and Akaza, and reasonably close to Millenium. Neither are close to Connections. I think that staying closer to Connections would be a mistake. Times Square is the best bet, although St. Germaine is right on the metro line.

I would have to say that my favorite place is Connection followed by Millenium. My mind is still numb from the time that I spend R$1810 in a 7 hour period at Connection. I have witnesses!

Mitch, I'll look into those Parthenons. I was investigating and I think that I found a Somali closer to both Millenium and Connection. The search continues for the ultimate experience.

That was a great night BT. I believe my total bill that night at Connection was a mere R$650. But I have sessioned their for about $R230. That included one drink and a one hour session. About the same as Luomo in Rio

BT: Did the R$1810 include the price of the Cialis?