Well, what a great night in Rio. Went to Help, walked 400 meters back to the Luxor and all I have to say is 23 stiches later I am back at the hotel. Not 200 meters from Help I got a nice little knife stuck in my arm and back. No fucking bullshit. My " date " is still at the hospital with a stabe wound to the chest. So FUCK Rio Last trip for me.......

walnuts,
sorry to hear about your bullshit in Rio.
hope you and your date will have a fast recovery.

Walnuts,

Man, that is bad news, but unfortunately, not unexpected. I have decided to absolutely avoid anything between Xavier de Silvera and Souza Lima at night. It just isn't worth it anymore. LAGuy and I were talking at dinner the other night about how we both feel substantially less safe than we used to, though neither of us has ever gotten hit. I was followed Friday night at 9:30 PM right on Atlantica down at Santa Clara, which was formerly a fairly safe area.

I think with the fewer number of tourists that means fewer targets, which means the muggers and pickpockets are more desperate and are basically trying to hit targets they wouldn't even have considered a year ago.

Get well, and certainly avoid Help/TA and the surrounding couple of blocks. I guess the advice to all is, except around Lido and possibly Posto 6, just take a taxi anywhere at night in Copa, even for just a few blocks.

On a side, did they rob you before or after stabbing you? That's really fucked up. I hope you did file a police report with the tourist cops over in Leblon.

A friend of mines uncle travels world wide always for work "Kuwait,mexico,brazil,asia" Oil Business.

He told me hands down , and this is a person whos been world wide , that brazil , but notably rio is the most dangerous place on the planet he has visited....probably short of iraq.

I for one will never visit there , plus i hate Brazilian women , not there looks , but con artist bullshit attitude , kill them all. Long story made short: My sisters father , married one , she milked him for all he had. There parasites.

Sorry to hear about your brush up.

I stayed at the Luxor on both of my trips.

My dates all looked at me like I was throwing money down the toilet when I insisted on taking a cab from Help to the hotel.

After reading your report, I am glad that I went that route.

When you get back to the states don't forget to pay a visit to your doctor for a checkup.

RG.

Smuckin,

I agree on the danger part but the con artist stuff? For a CR monger, you may not know the scene but I'll take the excellent con artists who you know are lying but don't give a shit since they're so fucking awesome in bed vs any other batch of females anywhere else on this planet. There is no better sex in the world than a garota, you just have to keep your head above the water and not get sucked under.

Walnuts,
I would like to add my wishes for a speedy recovery. Thankfully it wasn't "worse"....
I think Cat's analysis of the Rio scene/situation is dead on. Desperation is causing even more blatant attacks. I have been robbed once by the street rats; on the other side between Help and Mia Pataca at 10pm with people everwhere. As mentioned, no area is safe in Copa and surrounding areas, certainly Copa. This indeed is causing many "regular" travelers to rethink travel plans. Generally every three months or so there will be a news article discussing this.
Again, sorry to hear of your experience.
CFK

get well soon walnuts...JR

Walnuts, hoping you have a speedy recovery....

CF, about a year ago around 7pm I watched a guy go up to a tourist, pulled a gun out and demanded his money at the same place you were hit. The next thing I know Brazilians were yelling for the police and the chase was on. The cops were chasing this guy with weapons drawn, I did not stick around to see how it ended but was later told they had apprehended the guy.

Thank god your okay. You have me rethinking my upcoming trip.

hang on here a minute....i am drawing the lines now....

"My sisters father , married one"

let me see, if she is your sister, and you refer to her father...then would it not be your father also?????

can you send me the flow chart on this one.....

Walnuts,

I am really sorry about your incident. I have also been robbed in the same area, and at 9:00 pm at night.

I have learned my lesson and I NEVER let someone that I don't know close to me. That was my mistake when I was robbed. I let him close to me and I let him talk to me. When you see them approaching, just run.

Best

BT

we had a discussion a few weeks ago about booby-trapping beach bags and leaving them unattended so that when the little shits rob them and open up the bag and reach in....either boom!! or some kind of acid that will burn the shit out of them. these low life scumbags need to be removed from society. i dont understand why the local businesses dont have an association that can hire security and offer rewards for protecting the tourists that keep their businesses in business.

i have a simple rule. In my home by 10PM. After 8PM take a taxi. That way I avoid problems. Then, I rarely go to Help or any of the boites. Rio is not safe.

Wish you a speedy recovery and glad you were able to write about it.

Stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! True, shit happens in Rio....but do not carry on this histeria. Believe it or not but people do survive 'Help' after hours!!! Just use common sense and use a taxi late at night and you will be fine!!! People get mugged, killed, and stabbed all around the world. It is unfortunate and terrible, but it does not just happen in Rio!

Thank you all for the the comments and wishes. I will be fine and my date is home now. I was just stupid, but for Pete's sakes it was crazy. Needless to say, I have had it with Help. I do have to thank the Police for coming so fast and the ride to the hospital. Shit happens and at times we think it can't happen to us. Trust me it does.

For those who do go, DON'T walk, I mean ten feet. My bad and I have learned.

Walnuts

hey walnuts, did they catch the piece of shit that knifed you?

Walnuts,
Glad to hear all is well, it could have turned out much worse.
But i have to question your decision to walk 400 meters (3 or 4 blocks) after help closes. I am EXTREMELY careful just walking to Bob's at that hour, and always take a cab to my apt around the corner from help on Miguel Lemos. In fact if I leave my apt after 8pm I take a cab the 2 blocks to TA. It always happens when you think its OK.
Look, Rio is a great place, but it is dangerous.. so we need to do all we can to avoid a great trip ending like yours. So always walk straight out the door to the street, ignore the Help taxis and hail a taxi driving by, even if its a block.

Walnuts my question is, how did the hospital charge for their services. Did you have to pay cash or credit card before exit? Or did they bill you?

Walnuts, could you tell us exactly what happened? I know you were robbed, but What time? Location? Multiple robbers?

hey walnuts, these are some good questions. we would really like to know the entire story and how the whole hospital thing went down. hope you recover and get back to hobbying REAL SOON...JR

I'm not current on Rio but this reminds me of the problems of the mid 90's. It seems to be cyclical and now peaking again. I've wandered VM and other places at al hours and never had a problem...but I also know i've been "sized up" fairly often. The combination of my size 6'2" 200lbs, "Dressing down" and "street awareness" has always made me appear as a poor proposition. That being said I think the observation of slimmer pickings probably hold true...

I'd follow the suggestions and be extra careful at night if you go. But it sounds like Rio is getting as bad as SP can be. I've literally been stopped dozens of times in SP from going down one street or another by locals who flat out tell me I'm likely dead if I got that way (in and around financial district). I've also noticed alot more body guards for "normal" people my last few trips to SP.

Nothing has changed..... It really sucks that Walnuts got stabbed, but taking precaution has never and will never go out of style. I live in Rio full time and have never been scared. The area around 'Help', all the way up Copa beach is dangerous late at night. Just take a taxi and you will be fine. Random shit does happen unfortunately. Hell, I was just in South Florida visiting my mother and heard about the serial rapist caught in Miami, a serial killer has struck in Boca Raton... come on - things can happen anywhere. In Rio you know the areas where it is more likely. Most stuff that happens are robberies, purses and cell phones being stolen, etc.

Lovingmarvin,

you are correct, the only real thing that has changed is your marital status! LOL

How's it going?

Sorry about this attack, but you did not follow the protocols. Rio is not Bangkok. Thank God, you still have your dick and balls intact. Perhaps the hospital will allow you to call in a few escorts to speed up your recovery.

My first trip to Rio is coming up, and I am staying in Ipanema and taking cabs everywhere after 6PM, period. I think this is going to be my only trip there, however.

PussyBoy

Pussyboy'

Rio is like Lays potato chips, one is not enough!

The whole bag isn't enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I always take a taxi if I have a girl with me.. If there~s trouble, it~s hard to react with a girl on your side. OTOH If you~re by yourself (and not drunk), you can run if someone gets too close to you.

Rio is safe enough if you stay alert and use common sense.

"Rio is safe enough if you stay alert and use common sense."

There are few Rio Vets that over the years and many trips still haven't been robbed, if not by the street kids alone, and I assure you we were all alert and using common sense. In some cases within 100ft of many people and at reasonable times of the day/night, even two large men walking together. EVENTUALLY shit happens!
The problem is the locals and the authorities turn a blind eye to all this [complaints,etc] and don't give a thought to the fallout and how this can/could affect tourism in the scheme of things.
There is probably not one of us that hasn't heard a negative remark about Brasil's crime when telling a friend or acquaitance of an upcoming Brasil trip. People simply are becoming more afraid, and now even the seasoned Vets are concerned.

Rio is a huge city and once i a while muggings are going to happen to mongers even when taking precautions.I'm sorry it had to happen to one of the board members but it serves as a reminder that while out of the country on vacation one has to be deligent no matter what the destination.(yes this stuff happens in Costa Rica also)

i wish I could say I had sympathy.. but its been said here a billion times.. always take a cab at night.. no matter how close it is..

As Sweet used to say.....is your life worth $5.00, then take a taxi at night.....

Even though I'm in Sao Paulo quite a bit, I rarely go to Rio, a 45-minute airplane flight from Sao Paulo, anymore. It is just too dangerous for my tastes, particularly given the idea is to relax and have a vacation, not worry about all the precautions one must take to stay safe. Catocony and a few others recently saw me in Rio on one of my rare visits, which I made because a number of people I wanted to see were there at the same time.

Sometimes I see something on this board to the effect Rio is not so dangerous. Often these posts come from people who have a vested interest in saying such nonsense. Those who go to Rio should realize there are substantial risks and they are greater than in nearly every other city members of this board would be likely to see (unless one is in the military heading out to Iraq or Afghanistan). Although the risks in Rio can be mitigated, for example by prudent use of taxis and so forth, it is impossible to avoid the risks altogether.

Although there are areas of Sao Paulo that also make me a bit nervous, I can't agree that the level of violence in Sao Paulo comes close to that of Rio, with the exception of a couple of instances in the last year or so where there was literally a war between the police and the criminals (or perhaps better stated the criminals and the criminals) that lasted a few days. During that time period, the best thing to do was to stay in one's hotel, at least at night.

Hope you have a fast recovery Walnuts, and try to stay safe.

"....these posts come from people who have a vested interest in saying such nonsense". Interesting and bullshit statement. I live in Rio and have absolutely no vested interests. I do not make a living of tourists, or benefit in one way or another. Well, actually I would benefit if LESS tourists came as it would bring prices down.

You mention Sao Paulo. I married a Paulista and the condition of our marriage was to live in Rio. She was scared of Rio and made all those same nonsense statements made by Laguy. The same comments came from all her Paulista friends and family. With all the nonstop news in Sao Paulo focusing on the bad things in Rio, I guess I can understand. How her opinion has changed now... also now one of her friends that comes to visit us occassionally would like to live in Rio but can't because of the crazy prices in Zona Sul compared to Sao Paulo. Her family also has started to like Rio very much. All deathly scared of Rio before, but then realizing that all the news is greatly hyped. Before I spent alot of time in Sao Paulo (when my wife lived there) and spoke to many people. Each had heard something bad about Rio, but then as conversations continued almost all had experienced some type of violence in Sao Paulo. Her friend was robbed at a traffic light, my mother-in-law witnessed several robberies, others had cell phones stolen, etc, etc... but I needed to remember how dangerous Rio was and how much better Sao Paulo is. Hmmmm.

I think at this point in following this e-mail chain it makes no sense to continue trying to fight perceptions, so I will stop.

The reality is that most reported violence takes placs in the Favelas. Shoot-outs are common there as well as internal wars, but this typically does not spill over into Zone Sul (i.e. where Copa is located). Robberies do take place...but it is not the Wild West.

....and I have no vested interested in you coming to Rio or not!

I have no vested interest either and spend as much time here as anyone. Other than the area around help I have never felt in danger(except walking with Jag). The main thing is keep a low profile an blend in. I see to many Americans walking the street talking loud so everyone can hear them, actually kind of nice as they will attract the scum. I have a very good friend who grew up in Sao Paulo and she was robbed three times in her teens. Once they broke into her families middle class home. If you take proper precautions you should be okay although anything can happen anytime anyplace.

Lovingmarvin, I wasn't thinking of or referring to you when I posted. I was thinking about a thread perhaps a year or so ago in which one of the guys who does make a living off of tourists was really touting excessively how safe the place was. To the extent there was a misundertanding about who my statement was directed at, I apologize; it was not directed at you or your post, which I must have read over very quickly.

My take on Sao Paulo is it is much less dangerous now than 10 or 15 years ago, and that is what many of my Brasileiro friends have suggested also. I have Brasileiro friends and business associates in both cities, some of whom now rotate their locations week to week, and all with whom I have discussed this consider Rio presently more dangerous than Sao Paulo.

I live half my time in Rio for years. I agree that violence in Rio is way over blown in the media and Zona Sul is less dangerous. BUT, I have heard more gunfire in Rio (and Zona Sul) than everywhere else I have been in the world. I have also seen more pulled guns and ready to be fired in Rio (Zona Sul) than any other place I have been. I have seen more robberies, theft, etc.

I'm not saying don't go. Most probably you will be OK if you practice reasonable caution. But if your a first time tourist, don't feel that you can walk along in Zona Sul and not look over your shoulder. Predators know easy victims, so until you know the ropes be careful.

Laguy, no problem.... I just needed to state that I have no stakes either way. I simply love Rio and for that reason started to live there.

You certainly need to be careful, especially if you have never been to Rio before.

I guess I have somewhat gotten used to looking over my shoulder and adapted a "don't carry with you what you cannot afford to lose" philosophy (i.e. lots of money, etc).

With that being said, for those newbie’s coming to Rio for the first time - Just follow the following tips and you will be fine:

1) Take a taxi at night, especially if you leave 'Help'. Try to avoid the taxi's parked around 'Help' (not a danger thing, but you WILL be overcharged) walk towards the street and get a passing taxi. If you walk through the Terraco Atlantico you should be fine - it’s a short walk.

2) Stick your hands in your pocket if you see street kids (there are plenty around 'Help') approaching you or it looks like they will swarm you. This prevents them from pick pocketing if you keep a firm grip on your valuables. In crowded areas always be aware of pickpockets and protect your valuables accordingly

3) Giving in to a beggar and pulling out your wallet to give money is not a good idea! If you are so inclined, keep small change in your pocket - the last thing you want is someone grabbing your wallet and running away with it.

3) Leave flashy jewelry & watches at home.

4) When taking a girl home, just play it safe and ALWAYS assume she will rob you. Prepare your hotel or apartment beforehand and put everything valuable in the safe or hide it.

5) I usually lock the door from the inside and have a hiding place for the key. This avoids the girl being able to sneak out with valuables while you are sleeping or not paying attention.

6) Carry minimal cash, but leave some in your wallet and put the rest in your socks. If you are robbed at gun point and have nothing, they might get pissed. It’s better if they get something, i.e. R$100

7) Do not walk around on the street talking on your cell phone in open areas. Someone can run by and steal it from you

8) Walk with confidence and do not act like a scared tourist waiting to get robbed. Try to blend in the best you can.

9) While it might be hard as a newbie, try to anticipate trouble. If you see some unsavory characters eying you, walk to the other side of the street or head into another direction.

10) Remember the type of girls you are interacting with. Act accordingly....do not try to impress them with how rich you are, all the cool gadgets you have, expensive laptop, etc. You are just asking to be robbed and potentially be kidnapped. Be low key!!!! There are plenty of rich people in Rio and there are a few that show it off, but more keep it out of sight. I certainly would not want to be driving around in a Porsche - "Rob me please, I have money".

11) I take it a step further still - Do not use debit cards. Always use credit cards. If the card is cloned, stolen, or otherwise compromised you are protected. With debit cards things get much more complicated.

12) Did I mention to take a taxi late at night, especially around Copa? Yes, but it is a good idea to say it again.

These tips do not just work in Rio - but everywhere outside the US! Rio, Colombia, Costa Rica, Peru, Tijuana, etc, etc (And yes, I have been to all of them).

Good guide, Marvin, thanks.

I think LM has it right. There's no need to be overly paranoid about safety, but one should always be vigilant.

Here are the safety tips from my guide:

There is a fair amount of petty crime in Rio directed at tourists. Most of it is of the pickpocket, mugging, and petty theft variety, but armed robberies are not uncommon. What can you do to avoid being a victim? Start by following these 10 tips:

First, simply don’t carry around anything you don’t need at the moment, and make sure you have a good grip on anything you are carrying. I almost never carry a wallet with me, and if I do, I make sure I’m wearing pants or shorts that close in a way that makes pickpocketing more difficult (buttoned or zippered pockets work fairly well). You should always carry a photocopy of your passport (the inside page with all the info), but not your actual passport. It’s a good idea to carry a card with your hotel information as well. Otherwise, carry whatever money you need for your purposes and not much more.

Second, if you’re heading to a termas or somewhere where you need cash, carry the cash somewhere where it can’t be easily grabbed (i.e., in a hidden money belt, in your socks, etc.). You may want to keep 20 reais in your pocket as potential “mugging money.”

Third, don’t wear any flashy jewelry. Leave your Rolex at home and wear your cheap Timex. The only people likely to be impressed by your jewelry are potential thieves.

Fourth, don’t leave anything on the beach unattended that you can’t live without. You’ll notice that most of the locals will bring a t-shirt, a cheap pair of sandals, and maybe a towel to the beach, and nothing else. I have a little waterproof case that I put a few reais in and keep in my pocket while I’m in the water.

Fifth, stay off the beach after dark. Lots of muggings by groups of adolescent males occur at night on the beach, especially on Copacabana. The beach looks beautiful at night, but it’s not the place you’ll want to take a romantic or relaxing walk.

Sixth, take cabs most places after dark. Cabs are dirt cheap, and a mugging will pretty much ruin your Rio experience. The later it is, the more important it is that you heed this advice. Recently a group of kids attempted to rob my friend and me as we walked the 1 1/2 blocks from Help to my apartment at 3 a.m.

Seventh, keep valuables (cash, passport, cameras) in the safe in your room, especially when you’ve brought a working girl (“garota de programa,” or “garota”) back to your room. Most are trustworthy but a minority may not be. If renting an apartment you might want to check first to see if it has a safe (ideally, one that is built in or bolted down, or heavy enough that it can’t be stolen). If not, lock valuables inside your largest suitcase in order to minimize the likelihood of their “walking off.” Lock your apartment door from the inside and hide the key so she can't slip off with your valuables while you're sleeping.

Eighth, think twice about bringing more than one garota back to your hotel or apartment at one time. Several guys have been robbed when they brought two or more girls back to their room. While one was screwing them senseless, the others were stealing everything not locked up. Unless you know the girls, you may want to confine your duplas (sessions with two girls) to the termas or love motels.

Ninth, if you are going to be out on the streets after 1 a.m., travel with a group. The muggers look for single guys or couples. Don’t make yourself an easy target. Better yet, take a cab to your destination, even if it’s close by. This is particularly true for the area around Help Discoteca. The streets around Help become “Mugger Central” after 2:00 a.m.

Tenth, if you’re walking around town, do not talk on your cell phone, carry it in plain view, or carry any other valuables (cameras, MP3 players, etc.) in plain view. If you need to use your phone, step inside a restaurant or other public building. Thieves wander the streets looking for people (especially tourists) with phones, cameras, etc. If you must go somewhere with your camera, take a cab.

Follow these rules and you should be able to relax and enjoy the greatest show on earth. The crime situation is much worse in Copacabana than in Ipanema or Leblon, so if safety is an important consideration, you might consider staying outside of Copacabana.