What a great site.. So much information, I'm already planning my next weekend.
One area I'd like to see covered In more detail is prices. Come on guys. Let's get things in to prespective. Why pay 80 - 100 USD for what can be had for 40 - 60.
I don't want to start the same ol' flaming seen on other boards about paying to much & driving the price up. Like anything else, it's should be supply & demand.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a cheap skate by any means. I'll pay what seems to be a fair price to get the girl in the room, and I'm very generous about tipping for great service. By the same token, I have no reservations about holding back if the service isn't what I expect.And I'm talking about plain ol' strait forward sex...nothing weird.
So let's see some comparison not only to relay info to new hobbiest but to help us all get things in perspective.
BTW. here are my normal standards: (USD)
Bar/Brothel: 40 - 60 half hour, FS, all inclusive.
Amature/part timer outside brothel: 20 - 40, sometimes includes hotel, sometimes extra 5 - 10 for the room.
Massage parlor: 35 -50 ALL INCLISIVE!!!!!! No exceptions.
All night in your room: Amature, 40 - 60. Pro 60 - 100 ( even 100 is to much for a pro in juarez but I have done it for exceptional ladies I've had short time before.

As I said before, no problem tipping what ever you feel is fair. It's cool that the girl gets all of it. I generally go 10 - 20 for excellent service.
Any comments?

Beetlejuice;

Bar/Brothel: $40 will get you there most of the time. $50 max if you got to have her. Never $60 remember, pay more get less. 50 peso tip if it goes well.

Amatuer (often a bar tender or masera at the little bars) or the girls that hang around the little whore motels attached to the bars: $30 complete (ok maybe $2 for the roll of toilet paper with vaseline in the center and a condom)
including room and no tip unless it's exceptional
(these girls are netting much more then the brothel girls)

Massage parlor; Always pay in pesos, never more then 400, 50 peso tip if you think you'd likr to repeat. Check the adds in the paper, if they advertise less then 400, bring it with.

All night in your room; I agree with your prices assuming that all night begins after things wind down, (after 1 am) If all night starts with dinner at 8 pm, then i'd say your a bit low since she didn't have the chance to make anything that night. Todo la noche is the one area it doesnt pay to be cheap

Glad to see your on the same page, see my post elsewhere, but I contend Juarez is the value leader among the border towns.

Yeah, this is all about right.

Your best bet, though, is to lure a girl to your apartment and makes friends with her.

I give my amante very little money now.

Course, you have to be here to do that, though, and have the apartment...

But after a year and half here I'd say these prices are about right.

how much for apartment ?

You can figure $250-300 a month including bills for a furnished one bedroom. Or you can get one with nothing in it for $100 a month, but you might have to buy every single appliance and stick of furniture. Been thinking about getting one like that and building it up, because then it would be so cheap in the future.

They are very hard to find, I can tell you that much. Looking in the paper is confusing because you have to look up almost every street on a map, and you have no idea regarding the neighborhood until you drive there.

The cab drivers can nearly always tell you where they saw For Rent signs and they can always find these places again but can usually only give you vague directions, like "somewhere around Constitucion and 5 de Mayo".

Finding an affordable apartment in Juarez is a tremendous pain in the neck, I can tell you that much, but well worth it once you are settled in.

Beatlejuice's prices are exactly in line with Juárez at the current time.

I can tell you how to get $20 pussy, or even $10 pussy, but there are a few problems associated with it.

In the market on De La Paz there is a little whore house in the midst of the market sandwiched between two bars where some very cute girls will take you upstairs for $20. There is no bullshit involved here, but just be ready to fuck the minute you drop your drawers because, although friendly in the common room of the whore house, they will not even take their clothes off for you. Some of them even just slip one leg out of their pants and want you to fuck them that way. Tried 4 of them and decided not to go back.

Or, if you just drive or walk around and around the Municpal Gym on Martinez and keep saying $10, you get get a really hot fuck from one of the street girls. There are some real cuties down there---meaning, for me, under 125 lbls and under 25. She will even get in the car and go to your house with you for $10. Two problems here. One, be damn sure she is also over 18 besides being under 25. Two, they all seem to want drugs. Three (as I think about it), they have a bad habbit of asking for more money once they get your cock hard in the bed. Tell them 1) no drugs (even if you like them you'd had have to be crazy to mix them up in your Mexican experience); 2) no drugs on their persons while in your house or car; 3) no "pregunta por mas dinero in mi cama"; and 4) "diez dolares todo!" 3 and 4 are the same, but you cannot be too emphatic with the street girls.

After she agrees, you can sink back into the seat and enjoy the drive to your hotel or apartment. There will not likely be any more problems.

Personally, however, I find it vastly easier on my head to just to a massage parlour, where you get great service for $35 todo.

That leaves me free to watch television and listen to my Mexican music collection all evening.

Hmmm, the market whore house sounds like, if noithing else, an interesting experience. For 10 or 20 bucks what do you have to lose??? May try that this weekend.

Actually, Beetle, it is an interesting experience, but you are going to need some better directions.

Walk north on Avenida Juarez past 16 de Septiembre. It narrows and goes only one more block to Vincente Guerrero. You will see a lot of buses on V. Guerrero and the open air market dead ahead of you.

Put your wallet in your front pocket, because there have been reports of pick pockets operating in the market with a razor blade. They cut out your back pocket and take off with the wallet. You will likely be about the only gringo in a sea of Mexicans.

Anyway, stay on the right side of the market until you come to the first street which is also part of the market and pedestrian only. Turn right and immediately get on the left side of the street.

About, oh, 50 yards if that far, you will see a gaggle of young girls standing in front of a building. If you look inside of the doorway and see a circular metal stairway leading upstairs you have found the right place.

Here is the funny thing. These girls do not hustle the passers by. If you did not know they were selling pussy you would never get a clue from any of them. There is a little food stand in front of their building where you can buy a coke and check them out.

The most you will get is a hard stare, or she might almost imperceptibly nod her head slightly to let you know she is game.

They had about 4 or 5 really cute small girls there the last time I went, which was a couple of months ago.

They are all from Chihuahua and live in this tiny whorehouse.

Upstairs there are two older women who are very nice. The rooms are small and dumpy, of course, and you will feel a little rushed unless you are ready to fuck. But it is cheap pussy...

If you go would you mind jotting down the name of the bar on the right side of the whorehouse for future adventurers?

I did this a couple of times but could never seem to get home with the information...

D.E.
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to see your post until now. ( I just got back from Juarez) but I know what area you're talking about. I was in that exact area riding my bike. Funny thing is, I stopped at a small Internet cafe just off one of the side streets to get some info from one of your other posts but didn't feel like waiting. Wish I had now...
I took my bicycle & did a bit of touring the streets. Man, I really recommend this to anyone that's already familiar enough with the Juarez streets not to get turned around & totally lost. There's just so much more you can see without having to negotiate the crazy Wazoo traffic in your car. Plus you can cover a lot more ground than if you were walking.
My recommendation to all you others out there: get yourself a sturdy, inexpensive mountain bike with good tires. I stress the word sturdy and if you've driven the streets of Juarez, you'll understand why. Throw it in the back of the trunk or the back of the truck. After checking in to the hotel, hop on & have a blast. I bet you'll see things you've never seen before. Again, I only recommend this to those familiar with the major streets and driving habits of Juarez... LOL...I can't wait till I go back & see all the American men cruising the streets on cheap bikes & all the new bike racks installed in front of the MPs & whore bars. Well, that's one way of making them easy to locate.
On your recommendation, I always stay at the VMP and almost any thing worth seeing is just a short bike ride away. Also followed the directions given in yours & other posts & was able to locate most of the MPs mentioned here in the forum. I currently only frequent one so I can't give much new info on prices, quality, etc. However, as mentioned in other posts both here and on other forums, the gals are bringing up (not so much demanding) the subject of porpina before consummating the "relationship".This really didn't come as a surprise to me because it's been mentioned on the forums both in Juarez & the TJ boards too. Seems like the grapevine reaches all the way from Tijuana to Juarez and beyond. I'm not gonna get the girl I chose in trouble by ratting her out to her boss for asking but the tip will defiantly be less because she brought the subject up. I only hope this is a passing trend & wasn't brought about by patrons receiving satisfactory service & leaving without tipping. If the latter is true the then the tight asses out there only have themselves to blame.
To sum it up, had a great, relaxing & fun weekend. Funny thing about Juarez. Even after you've been there a couple days, you've done about all there is to do in a short time, and you know it's time to get back to the "real" world, there always seem to be something pulling me back when I'm trying to cross the border. Good thing they don't have a U-turn Lane or I'd probably still be there & miss work tomorrow. I don't know what it is, the people, the beautiful women, the adrenaline of this bustling city...Beats the hell out of me. Maybe I'll look further into it on my next trip in three weeks.

I certainly do not doubt you, but I do not believe any girl has ever asked about a tip until I was leaving, and not many even ask for it then. I have had them want $5 for a longer blowjob. But, then again, I do always tip $5 when I am happy with the girl, and I think that word gets around, also. (You would not believe how many regular clients never tip the girls.)

I understand about not wanting to leave. Juarez is a magic place for me. All my earthly cares melt into non-existence when I drive across the border. In my apartment I feel as safe as I have ever felt anywhere and surrounded by good neighbors, also. There is also a real neighborhood in my area. You have two meat markets to choose from, three little grocery stores, and a fresh produce store. There is also a good barbershop ($5), a dentist, an interesting bookstore, and lots of other businesses. You get to know the shopkeepers, and they know you. If someone is a trouble-maker in the neighborhood, they get the cold shoulder from practically everyone. If a person is honest and friendly with everyone, everyone is glad to see them come in, old or young, gringo or no.

If I could find a decent job in El Paso, I would be living there full-time...

By the way, I went to the market this Saturday, and the girls in the little brothel next to the La Flor del Valle Bar were not outside. I peeked inside the doorway but did not go up since I had no intention of buying any pussy. You can also look for a small hand-painted sign over the business on the left side of their doorway which says "Cafe - Te - Dulces - Cigaroos Y Sodas". Maybe they will be back...

Beetlejuice, I thought I was the only gringo stupid enough to do the bicycle thing. The last couple of trips I have hauled my own bicycle down but once I flew to EP, bought the cheapest mountain bike they had at the wal-mart near the EP airport and rode it across. Wore the thing slap out in 10 days and then gave it to Efrain, the manager of the VMP.

My general plan is to park my car at the EP airport and ride to Juarez. It's almost all downhill from the airport to Juarez which is good but makes the trip back a real MF. I haul all my stuff in the standard backpack, too cheap to go for panniers and besides a backpack holds lots more stuff. I think next trip I will again buy a cheapie at wal-mart and give it away when I get ready to return, then just take the bus back to the airport.

Dougie is not just a bicycler, he is the Lewis and Clark of explorers of Juarez on two wheels or four.

He brings the mind of the scientist---which he in fact is in real life---to bear upon the art of mongering. His directions are not treasure hunts in which one searches for the X on the map by means of vague desciptions, such as "turn left by the tortillaria and look for the green building on your left a few blocks ahead." If you ask him for directions he will give you a precise street address you can hand to any cab driver and be sure of getting there---something sorely lacking on monger forums.

On his first bicycle expedition of which I was aware, back in late 2000 or early 2001, he mapped at least a dozen massage parlours---complete with addresses and business hours. All of the places I go to today on a regular basis are on that original list, and I do very little exploring myself because I am pretty content with the same 'ol as long as the same 'ol makes me happy.

If there were such a thing on this forum as the 'Juarez Award' I would definitely have to nominate him for it.

I like "vauge" directions. I think it adds to the adventure of exploring a foreign country. It gives you the oppurtunity to see and possibly appreciate the things you may not notice if you just used an address and street directions like "turn left here take a right there". As ugly as Juarez is, there is alot of history to see.

Okay...I'm not playing here...

We Juarez Monglers should get a bike tour together....!

I have not tried the "bike" thing yet in J-Town... but would love the adventure in doing so!
...But i think it would be best with an experienced person.

What do you all think of getting a few brave men together (rookies and vetrans) for a little nookie-nookie tour of Juarez... make a couple stops for the finer gals and a drink or two?

If anyone is interested...post your thoughts... I'm sure we can get something started...

~~Ciao!
elDiablo99999

Bike tour of Juarez?? Hmmm Sounds interesting but a large group of Americans would be way to conspicuous. In my opinion, the best way to spend time in Juarez is to blend into the crowd & being a part of a large group of bicyclist would make that quite impossible. Of course a group of 2 or 3 with al least 1 in the group being familiar with where to go & what to see would be great fun.

Fortunately Juarez doesn't share the notoriety of Tijuana so this could be entirely possible. These board seem to only have a limited number of Juarez contributors & most providing useful information.

Bikes or no, We should all try to use the "trip buddies or 'travel plans" features on the site to see if a few of us can make plans to hook up while in Juarez. I usually travel there on my own. Seems most people I invite have only heard of Juarezes bad reputation for crime & such and are reluctant to go. That's fine with me but it'd be cool to sit & have a few beers & exchange info with some of the mongers from the board.
My next trip is next weekend.

Dougie,
Just a suggestion. Instead of getting a bike at WalMart, find your way to one of the open air flea market type neighborhoods in Juarez. I'm sure you've seen them in your 2 wheeled travels. You can probably pick up a decent bike there for $20 or so.
Since you usually have to give the bike away at the end of your trip, this might be the way for you to go. I personally drive my pick up in to Juarez with mine in the back. Juarez being a fairly large city, this allows me to drive to different colonias & then take a ride. I tell you, my last trip was an exceptional experience. Saw so many different things.. Juarez is really an interesting city.
Let me know when you plan your next trip down....

Juarez does have a terrible reputation. Hundreds and thousands of guys on this side of the line whine about not getting the kind of pussy they want, and they don't have the balls to cross the line because of hearing horror stories about Juarez since being toddlers. Parents of teenagers are especially terrified of having their kids go to Mexico (for good reason, I must admit), so I believe they start in with the horror stories early. Juarez as the boogey-man is definitely a distinctive feature of the American culture here on the border in both caucasion and Hispanic families. But I've never had any problems with anyone there.

Hey D.E.
That just leaves more for us, no?

That's a fact, Beetle. I do not even waste my breath, anymore. They can stay home and jack off.

I'm of the personal opinion, however, that if 90% of the guys in the U.S. knew about Latin America firsthand, the continent would be depleted of every man who could afford to quit working and move there.

I saw one guy in San Jose, CR phone his stockbroker and tell him to send $100,000, tomorrow. Then he called his boss and told him he would never be back---no notice, no nothing. His first experience with an unlimited, unending supply of hot young pussy, and something in his brain just went "ping!" Suddenly the marriage, his vice-presidency at his firm, everything he had worked for his entire life meant absolutely nothing.

They just want to work us to death to pay taxes and buy cars in the U.S. The titilate our minds with images of sex in the media 24/7 but expect us to settle down to one woman. When you pass 40 it gets harder and harder to get the kind of lovely young girl you want. She starts to identify you with her Uncle Robby, because to her a guy two years older is an "older man". Then you can pay $450 an hour or settle for an old bitch your age (because she will be a bitch if she's still single even if good looking) and listen to her theories of color therapy over a dinner that costs you $80. The worse thing that can happen is that she actually gives you some pussy, because then in her mind she owns you. Some men have even been known to resort to personal ads. This is what awaits the older guy in the land of the free and the home of the brave...

Ping!

There is a better world beyond that little culture dish if you have the balls to peer over it and make the plunge...

I'd just like to add my two cents worth. Wait, I think you pretty well said it all DE...

DreamingEagle...Great rant on American women. I could't agree more. I won't comment more since you've basicaly said it all.
Followed your directions to the market "stairway" brothel. Good directions. Found it with no problem. There were a few girls hanging out by the door way. Only one caught my eye but passed since there would have been a definate age issue & I really din't feel like spending the rest of my weekend plus a few extra years in a Mexican prison for screwing an under aged gal.
I kept walking past the place & discovered no less that 2 more brothel/hotels not 100 feet further down. Still didn't go for it since I had arraingements to meet a favorite later that evening.
Went back to the same area much later that night just out of curiosity & wow. Te place completly transforms itself from an open air market to a series of lively bars, dance salons and whores galore in the range from 3s on up to a few 7s & 8s, mostly young, some old but all appeard legal.
As you continue further west of the "staiway" hotel, the place becomes very seedy. When I say seedy I mean seedy even by Juarez standards if you know what I mean. I would only recomend this area to the most adventureous of us. I mean it was almost scary. However, I was never bothered by anyone except for perhaps a few stares. I guess this should be expected since I was the only American in the area. If you're feeling brave, this area is definatly worth a look durring the evening hours.
Ended up at a dance salon called VAQUEROS", one of those 5 peso per dance places. It was packed with non working gals just trying to make a few extra pesos. Danced most the evening with one named Carmen. Had a great time.
Talked a bit with a local. He told me it was unheard of to see an American in the place but no one there seemed to have a problem with it.
A tip to anyone planning on visiting one of these places: Don't even think of starting trouble. infact, trouble at all costs. Saw a couple fights break out & ALL parties involved were immidiately & roughly extracted from the place through the front doors to the hands of the waiting police.
not a good way to end your evening.

I think I have a handel on the propina issue at the MPs. Seems on Sunday the manager at Encantado was gone for the day & that's when the girls start asking for tips for extra services... The girls I chose for my last encounter before I had to return to the States (que triste) informed me that it was going to be an extra 20 pesos for services beyond basic massage. I told her not to worry because I would tip her if things went well.
I know I should have just walked out of the place but I was already on the table & on my back by this time so what the hell. Anyway, the whole session was just OK. At any rate, it was her loss since all she got was the extra 20 pesos she asked for & I would normaly tip atleast 50 for a "OK" session just for her effort. So guys, when you don't see the manager present when yu go to the MPs, be sure you make the terms of your deal clear before choosing. We've got to stop this trend.
Funny thing is, my session at Felinas the day before was a total sucess. The girl I chose, Etti, was great. A 7 on looks but a definate 10 on additude & concern for my needs. The subject of propina was never brought up except by me at the end of the session & she got herself a nice 105 peso tip. Belive me, it was well earned. I'll definatly add her to the list of favorites.
DE... let me know what e mail you use now. I've tried to write you but never a response. Need to discuss some issues with you I'd prefer not to mention on the board.
Thanks man.

If you ever had the Hotmail address, it's still good. My sister also said some of her emails did not get through. This was because my space limitation was used up. It will work now, since I cleared out all the folders.

Dreamingeagle:
Tried your hotmail. Cameback undeliverable???
I'll try it on Yahoo. Do you still use that one?

Yahoo mail just got returned as well....

I'm coming down next Thursday. Anyone gonna be there? Also, I'm very excited about the 'stairway' brothel. I love this sort of stuff, is there any more info and/or other places of this ilk??

Macgyver22, as far as I know, no, nothing like the brothel with the circular stairs in the marketplace, but if Doc is still posting he might give you some more information about out of the way places like that. He claims there is also a "secret garden of pleasure" in the De La Paz area.

By the way, you were very wise to avoid the underage girl. Mexico is so loose lots of people get to thinking they can get away with anything, and you can---until one day---one day when some wierd fluke of a circumstance leaves you eye to eye with a suspicious cop who nabs you with a teenaged girl or a roach in your front pocket. Then the party's over, muchachos.

Once a neighbor offered me a 15 year old babe of a girl for only $10. While she was showering I walked to the store to get change for a $20, and it hit me like a ton of bricks. That with my luck, this would be the day---of all days---a big green monster chewed a whole in the side of the building or something else happened to reveal me to be fucking this very young girl.

Even absent problems with the law, my other neighbors would have lost all respect for me had they seen her leaving my apartment after being in there a long time. So I called the deal off the second I got back. She came out of my bathroom without a stitch on, and, my god, this girl was already a woman and a half. Talk about a perfect little body! I gave her $5 for her trouble, fed her a bowl of frejoles since she was hungry---with the door open---and then sent her back to the neighbor who had offered her up to me. I still fantasize about what it would have been like to have had that girl in my arms.

But why take chances with the only life you've got, 'cause if you go to jail for something like that south of the border you ain't gettin' out. Ditto with drugs. Even if you like 'em in the U.S. run the instant you get around them in Mexico.

Dreamingeagle, Finally may get a chance to get out your way in Oct. for a weekend. e-mail me at uhalum@excite.com if you can get away...Later amigo...

I will not disclose what happened to me with the police this weekend, but do not get involved with the street girls. Some of them are as sweet as can be and will do you for $20. But my advice is to just walk on, pay more in a safe place, and forget it. That's a mess of drugs, girls with big personal problems, corrupt cops, and eyes behind the mirrors all mixed up with each other down there in el centro.

Avoid that scene at all costs. You are ok in the whore bars and in the massage parlours. Life as you know it can end in about the length of time it take to blink your eyes one time when you stray into a seedy hotel to fuck a street girl to save $20, or because you like her so much your judgement lapses.

I'll post more later once I'm sure this matter has really died down. For now, that's all I'm going to say.

Good night.

Is it possible that some of what I've put forth n this board only to be dissed, has hit home? oh well my friend, hope it wasn't too bad for you!
(This is why I refer to Juarez as a shithole. Not the whole city, only the part that gives first timers their primary impression of that fine city)

I never said el centro was not a shit hole, Borderjumper. After all my lecturing, I was doing what I advise others to never do and had only myself to blame. What caused me to criticize your previous posts was they did not come with any qualifiers about el centro vs. the rest of the place. From what I can tell from reading the posts Juarez still has the best massage parlour scene on the border, and I'm going to stick to the MPs in the future. But I would not be surprised to see a vampire walking sideways up a wall downtown.

I totally agree with you on the quality of the MP's in Juarez. Generally, not specifically. Here in NL, if there are MP's, I've not found them and believe me, I've looked. My issue with Juarez is not the town in general but specifically the area in the zona and the cretins that inhabit it form the Policia to the hustlers to the drug deallers, right on down the line. I was in Juarez for three days about a month ago or less and I have oticed some relatively positive changes in the town. specifically, I was astounded at the absence of the Vialidades on each and every corner. I was disappointed at the level of service available at the GENESIS MP. I guess time changes everything. I found my self in a big hurry to get back over here to NL. At any rate, sorry to hear of your problems with the Policia over there and welcome to the club. But, you haven't lived until you've spent an hour riding around centro in the back of a paddy wagon with 2 drunk whores on your lap and 20 drunk Mexicans on the floor trying to make you feel genuinely welcome! BTW, remember reading about the two "truck drivers" arrested in Dallas with all the illegals in the truck and two dead? One of them was a pretty good friend of mine who was a close associate of Ricardo at the Casa. He's looking at a Federal death sentance now and fromwhat I understand, singing like a canary. Friend or no, I'd like to be the one to pull the switch on his ass for what he did to those poor people. And I'm not trying to get a discussion started here on the relative merits of capitol punishment. Just a reflection~

I'll pull it to...

And I've got to tell you something. I've felt for a long time that your whole negative impression of Juarez derrives from the fact you found yourself in association with the absolute worst elements the city had to offer down there in the zona.

From what I can see, most of those P. Smurf imports down there at Casa are like your "friend" who would let a person die in the back of his truck for few extra dollars and represent about the worst elements our society has to offer the Mexicans.

You put the worst of our society mixed up with the worst of theirs, and what do you get? A negative impression.

You need to look me up next time you are in C. Juarez and let me take you to my apartment and let you pet Camalita's dog and have a beer or two in the tranquility of my apartment.

That's why I have taken extreme offense at your categorizing the whole city as a shithole when I know better.

Any place is what you make it and the people you choose to associate yourself with...

That's something you also know and sounds pretty harsh but I do mean it. You are welcome to call me anytime you are down here and have my email address. I never disliked you, but I'll always be a pretty staunch defender of Juarez---not the Juarez of el centro, but my Juarez where things seem to be the way they are for you in NL now.

I'm in total agreement wth you on this one mano. The Juarez I was introduced too 20 some odd years ago is the shithole it's become. The zona roja, the clubs. Unfortunately, the Juarez that I was first acquainted with is the Juarez that most first timers to the city see and rmember. Not naming names, but these are the people hat may get down there for a day or so once or twice a year. They need to be prepared and warned. They don't have the luxury of exploring and getting to know the city as you and I and a couple of others have. I've noticed positive changes in the place my last visit, I'll admit to that. I'll let others have the zonas and except for an occasional visit to a MP when I'm there (we don't have them here in NL), I've willingly retired from the scene. I support your efforts to put a positive spin on the city because the town and 95% of the residents deserve it. Check out a recent trip we made down south if you like at

http://www.mexicovacations.netfirms.com

That's a nice site, BorderJumper. I looked at the pictures of the family gathering and of Bernal and bookmarked it for tomorrow night when it's not so late. Just got back and have work tomorrow.

You mention pollo mole, and I had my first taste of pollo mole two weeks ago, actually. Carmalita brought be a huge platter while I was moving into a new apartment upstairs, and, man, it was good. This weekend she asked me for two beers on Saturday, which was highly unusual since the old lady does not drink. When I brought them down her son, Tony, was the only one there. I told him she was welcome to the beers but noted the request was highly unusual. He agreed and seemed totally perplexed. We put the beers in the refrigerator anyway, of course, and then on Sunday when I passed by her apartment she saw me and called out loudly from the kitchen for me to come in and see her a minute. She wanted to explain that she did not want to drink the beers but that she was making "pollo barracha" (drunk chicken).

This old woman is the manager of the building and has become something akin to my own mom. She had a big fat cocker spaniel, a little cat, and four parakeets. She keeps the hallways mopped and plants hanging and thriving everywhere in the building. Our building is very tranquil, and she is the reason. Her little kitchen is stocked with every kind of spice and utensil you can imagine, and when she cooks for you---like most Mexican women---she is not happy unless there is nine different good things to eat on the same plate. She claims not to know how old she is, but I figure it's close to 80. She wears glasses and has crooked teeth, but after a long week when I finally trudge up the stairs her's is about the prettiest smile I ever saw, because I know I am home and am safe there among friends.

I should be safe. My next door neighbor---who is about the gentlest guy you ever met---is a professional wrestler who goes by the name "Enoch".

We have the best landlord I've ever had. Every Friday night he's in front of the building with his little notepad making a list of problems the tennants are having. If you have a problem, you know you can count on seeing him on Friday evening. When the swamp cooler did not work in my first apartment, I got a brand new one by the next weekend which about froze me out. When I moved downstairs, that apartment did not have a swamp cooler, but he bought one for it, too. The hot water had a peculiar smell, so he had the hot water heater replaced. When it got cold he installed a nice gas heater on the wall in the bedroom for me. Now that I've moved upstairs he is replacing the refrigerator and putting a heater in that apartment for me. And it's not because I am an American with money. He does all these things for his Mexican tennants as well. Many of them simply do not want swamp coolers and gas heaters because of the utility bills.

Looks like to me you have also discovered the generousity of good Mexican people. That family gathering looked really nice and made me wish I could have been there. I'll bet there were a gillion kids all over the place, something I really enjoy long as they are not my own...

You have really delved deeply into Mexico. I am often reminded of "Dances With Wolves" when Kevin Coster's character writes in his journal after living among the Sioux: Nothing I have been taught about these people is true...

The zona. As I say, I would not be the least bit surprised to see a vampire walking up a wall down there, BorderJumper, and you know that's only a slight exageration. And you are right when you say people who only come once or twice a year need to be warned about the dangers in el centro. I myself almost went to prison a couple of weeks ago because I got myself in a situation downtown that I knew from the onset was dangerous. There was a girl involved, of course, one I have loved for about a year now. If the cop had not taken a bribe, I would be in a little urine stained jail cell...

That's Juarez. Some parts of it are shitholes worthy of every bad thing you ever said about Juarez. Then there is the loving muchacha you slowly strip to the sounds of "Secreto de Amor", and in her kisses and arms you find within yourself a second youth most men will never know. You realize any amount of danger is a tolerable risk for the feeling of being truly alive again.

You won't find that in the whore bars, or even the MPs. You can't just be a visitor on the halodeck. The Mexican people are like any people anywhere. It takes them a while to get to know you before they trust you. Then you get chicken mole and get to play with the kids. They don't have much in the way of material things, but they sure are rich in spirit. Hell, I'm almost as poor working down here in the southwest as they are by the time I pay rent on two places, but I have to be one of the luckiest guys alive. I'll bet you feel the same way.

Most definately...everytime I walk in the door and have a smiling lovng woman anmd four kids waiting to reet me. The exxence of Mexico! I'm here to stay!

Adelante...

More to report next week I hope. I'll be leaving Thursday afternoon right after work for a nice three day weekend...

And it was...

Those of you who speak Spanish fluently know how much being able to communicate with the girl enriches the experience. It's been one long, damn road for me to learn what I have in the past two years, but I'll never quit studying because the pay-off is so incredible.

This weekend I went to LePetit, a massage parlour on Montes de Oca at Avenida de la Raza. The usual parade of about 10 smiling fat girls came streaming into the parlour with one striking exception: a slender young lady named Alexandra.

"No puedo decidir!" I said, feigning an agonizing decision over which girl I would choose. (I cannot decide.) "Pero," I said, stepping up to the slender girl. "Alexandra, puedo ver tu mano un momento, por favor?" (But, Alexandra, may I see your hand for a minute, please?)

She gave it to me, and I turned it upside down as though reading her palm, tracing the lines on her hand with my finger. "Ahhh ha!" I finally said, touching my head.

"Yo veo algun sexo muy caliente en tu futuro imediato," I told her. (I see some very hot sex in your immeidate future.) The entire room burst into laughter as Alexandra pulled her hand back to put it on her chest she was laughing so hard.

She looked like a brushing bride as she led me to the room, and to say her performance was enthusiastic would be an understatement. She had a great tight little bod with nice pechos, tambien. It wasn't the best sex I ever had with the girls of Juarez, but some girls just fuck better than others. She had done her best, and I was content.

She was a very nice person, I thought. She had no children at 25 and had lived in Juarez all of her life. I told her she was very smart to have avoided pregnancy, and she just smiled and nodded her head. "I want to wait until I have a good husband I can have confidence in, and then I want to have children," she told me. (Nevermind the translation.)

We talked about the fact that there are not many alternatives when it comes to making money for a young girl in the city. The maquilas paid about $40-$50 a week, and other jobs about the same or less. I told her if I were her, I would be also be a prostitute under the circumstances, that my last girlfriend had worked in the MPs.

"Why are not with her?" she asked.

I told her because I did not want to marry, that she had finally married another man and was living in a nice little house in east Juarez and was not having to work any longer, and that we were still good friends who talked a lot on the phone.

"Good for her!" she said earnestly. "And good for you that you are still her friend."

"So, believe me, I understand. So when you see me walking in the door next time you will know I understand and that I have a lot of respect for you," I told her.

She nodded appreciatively and smiled a little smile. "That's good to know."

I asked her if she drank or used drugs, and she shook her head no, like she would have to be crazy to do drugs. "I smoke a little and I like wine once in a while, but that's all I do."

When asked about her future plans, she replied she was saving her money to get a little house for her mother. "For your mother, not for you?"

"No, I'm young. I have a lot of time. She's getting up in years and needs to have a place of her own."

So here is this girl fucking anyone who walks through the door so she can have a decent life and saving money for her mom's future house. Not a bit surprising once you've been here a while. All most American girls her age would be thinking about is a new Camero.

She struck me as a pretty solid person, just like a lot of the girls working in the MPs here in Juarez.

If I could do a mind meld with a Spanish speaker I would, but, alas, only lots of study and practice and immersion in the Spanish speaking world will do the trick. The things you learn from books you often forget. The things people take the time to teach you you never forget. I've learned 90% of what I know from people the same way a child learns a language. The other 10% was an academic pursuit time permitting, and time has not permitted much formal study.

But even if you are like the Chinese housekeeper in John Wayne's "True Grit" who say everything wrong but meaning clear you are way ahead of the game and will have a more rewarding experience in Mexico.

Even eating out is more fun. Mariscos d'Mazatlan has had a special going a while where you get 16 fried shrimp for 80 pesos served on a bed of rice with a salad in the middle along with mashed potatoes and a delicious fish soup. It's a fairly upscale restaurant in Juarez near the Cordova bridge with a sunken dining room in the middle and three elevated dining rooms with a nice decor throughout.

The young lady at the door handed me a menu in English. "Menu en ingles para mi!" I asked her incredulously, putting a finger on my chest.

She laughed and said, "Tu no Americano?"

The manager of the restaurant instantly focused on our conversation in case there was a real problem developing.

"Soy Americano, pero porque ir a Mexico hablar inglis?" I said, making a face like that was unthinkable. (I'm an American, but why come to Mexico to speak English?) "Inglis es aburrido juntos espanol!" (English is boring compared to Spanish.)

She was really laughing now and took the English menu back and handed me another one. "Menu espanol, signor! Solo usted?"

"Si, solo uno, puede darme un mesa fumando, por favor?" (Yes, just one, can you give me a smoking table, please.)

This made her laugh again because I think she heard it as a "table which smokes", which is the say everything wrong but meaning clear part kicking in to the learning process.

Meanwhile the manager of the restaurant, having taken in this conversation, is beaming from ear to ear as we pass by him. I had no more than pulled my chair back to be seated before he was at the table with an ashtray, and he was right back five minutes later when I reached for a cigarette to light it for me.

I also ignored my waiter's attempts to speak to me in Engish and spoke to him solely in Spanish.

Damn it! It's finally paying off...

Say everything wrong but meaning clear... Who cares? Don't you give someone a break when it's a foreigner trying very hard to speak English? I know I do, and people in Latin America are perhaps even more patient that we are with someone who is trying hard to learn.

The ladies in the little grocery store by my house have been kind to me as well. Kind of strange not being able to ask for bacon or have to point up to paper towels on the top shelve because you don't know what they are called in this strange new place. How nice to have an old lady teach you the name of everything she sells you once she's gotten to know you and knows you want to learn. Sometimes still I hand her too much money because I get confused because she throws the centavos in behind the pesos and that confuses me. She just smiles and shoves a coin back at me and makes change from the rest. I'd bet my last dollar that she has never cheated me out of a penny.

When I moved into the apartment two years ago the old lady who runs the building was in the apartment asking me about something I didn't understand, and she finally said, "You don't know the names of the things in your house, do you?"

I shook my head no, and she began to laugh as she walked to the stove. "Oh, Ron! Estufe...estufe!" she said patting the stove. "Suelo! Suelo!" she said, bending over the pat the floor. "Mesa...mesa," she said, patting the table. "Refrigador!" she said, touching the refrigerator. "Mira! Mira!" she said, leading me into the bedroom. "Tu cama, tu cama!" patting the bed. "Tocador, tocador!" patting the dressor.

And on it went until she had gone through the whole apartment and taught me the names of everything in it, and I never forgot a single one of those words except for the one for the hangers in the closet. Been meaning to ask about that again for the past two years but can never seem to remember when I see her because we have so many other things to talk about now---like who's moving in and who's moving out of the building and what the latest gossip is. She also knows the whole story of what transpired between me and my ex-amante and is always wanting to have news of her doing well in Zaragosa. We can now discuss the most complicated things imaginable. Since I am the ignorant one who says everything wrong but meaning clear I wonder which of us deserves the most credit, me for trying to learn, or her for being one of the many people in Mexico who had the patience to help me and teach me until
we could really talk.

At first I was hesitant, but now I open my mouth and it just goes until I have made my point. Say everything wrong is okay so long as meaning clear.

Hell, it takes even a child 4 years to learn a language, and I've only been trying for 2!

Some things are just worth doing, and learning Spanish is one of them if you want to make the most of your experiences in the Latin world.

Hangers = ganchos

So I found out this week when I brought my ganchos back to the bundle service which does my clothes here in Las Cruces. There is a delightful lady there who speaks very little English and she told me when I asked. But thanks... Is your Spanish pretty good, BorderJumper?

Everybody here says it is excellent but I know they're lying. My vocabulary needs strengthening and my grammar; forget it! I think in English and try to talk in Spanish and that doesn't work. But, lola understands me at least!

Yes, it does not take long to communicate in Spanish if you have a patient partner who learns what you know and don't know and adjusts her Spanish accordingly. It really shows some intelligence on the part of the other person to be able and willing to do this for you...

Prices continue to go down in the MPs.

Lorey's: $25
LePetit: $30
Felina's: $35 (down from $45)

You also get 10 pesos for ever dollar now.

Dreamingeagle and Bettlejuice,

I'll be going down to CJ from Mexicali, and since you guys seem locals in CJ, Please give me the best MP in Juarez with the best looking girls, I'll be there from N0V 5 till NOV 10.

Hope that maybe we can meet and hit these or other places together,

Masterater

Stay at the Villa Manport Hotel at Hermanos Escobar and Calle Panama, and there is one called Sirena's right across the street. There is another one 1 block to the west on H. Escobar called El Encanto (upstairs). Try Marilyn's at 2900 Del Ejido, Maseje Roma on Lopez Mateos by the Church's Fried Chicken, or LePetit on Montes de Oca at Avenida De La Raza. There is also Felina's at Jose Borunda & Peru, and Corpus exactly one block to the east on Borunda.

Dreamingeagle and Bettlejuice,

I've been reading your postings and you two seem to know juarez pretty well.

I'll be taking a trip to El Paso from Houston late Nov or early Dec and would like to go there with someone who knows the best placeses to get the hottest girls.

If intrested let me know. Thanks.

PS. I'm hispanic and can speak spanish like if I was a mexican. I can translate everything!!

Lost my earlier post due to Netscape freaking out for no reason, which was kind of a heartbreaker.

But I had a great GFE one block from my house in a massage parlour with as lovely a girl as one could imagine----26 years old with black hair down to her butt, perfect bod, perfect smile, perfect everything.

Price: $25.

Finding girls like that here is like panning the mud in the river for a gold nugget. But they are there if you are patient.

If you have the time to explore it, nothing can beat Juarez. You are never more than 10 minutes from the border and can work in the U.S. and go all the time. The bad raps come from people who don't have time to explore.

I lived in El Paso for more that 10 years, I left in 1982. I also had many girlfriends and lived in Juarez during that period. Nothing was then like I have dicovered now exist in the area. Ther were absolutely no streetwalker in Juarez back then. The clubs in El Paso was at best a matter of good luck. What a change for the better.

Although I am going to Thailand this year, Iam planning a trip home to visit ElPaso one weekend. Very soon. This is a great site with lots of well written reports.

I lived in El Paso for more that 10 years, I left in 1982. I also had many girlfriends and lived in Juarez during that period. Nothing was then like I have dicovered now exist in the area. Ther were absolutely no streetwalker in Juarez back then. The clubs in El Paso was at best a matter of good luck. What a change for the better. I even drove a cab when i livedthere and received a commission for taking client accross the border to places like the cave.

I feel like I have never been to this area. It is so unlike what it was, for the better. The changes are unbelievable.

Although I am going to Thailand this year, I am planning a trip home to visit ElPaso one weekend. Very soon. This is a great site with lots of well written reports.