It’s been about five years since I’ve done a trip report. After visiting Bangkok in January, October, and the end of December of 2015, and spending the first few days of 2016 there, I thought I’d share some of my recent experiences, and probably some older memories as well. Even though I haven’t written a trip report in a long time, I have been a regular visitor to both Bangkok and Jakarta in the interim. I’ve been visiting both cities every year; sometimes twice in a year for Bangkok when I’m on one of my longer trips.

Unlike my previous reports, this one isn’t going to have a narrative. Instead it will be a series of posts that jump around – lots of tidbits as opposed to a story. With that said, on with the countdown, as they used to say.

I’m going to start off with my overall take on the gogo scene in Bangkok, as a proverbial straw broke the mongerer’s back on this trip. Just about everyone who has regularly visited the gogo bars in Bangkok has paid witness to their decline. For those of you who read the Stickman weekly column, this has been discussed there extensively. Personally I’ve had some long talks with Dave the Rave about it. They have been sliding downhill for quite some time, and are picking up speed on their way down. Things just ain’t what they used to be, and I have grown extremely frustrated with the scene.

Gogo bars have always been my primary focus in my 18 years of visiting Bangkok. I’ve always been active participant in the massage parlor scene, both the big places and the teen places, plus other venues and the freelancer scene. But gogo bars were always my bread and butter so to speak. No more, at least for Bangkok. I’m rather fed up with the whole scene. Going forward, they will become a sideline, places I may visit a few times for kicks, but with most of my energy and baht focused on the alternatives.

The problems are many:
• Vastly fewer girls work in the bars now.
• The overall quality of those that do pales in comparison to former times.
• Prices keep going up, while
• Session quality keeps deteriorating, along with attitudes.
• GFE has pretty much disappeared.
• Meanwhile, the bars have resorted to the utilization of non-barfinable coyote dancers, who are not always easily identified.
• Bars have also in many cases created tiers of barfines for different ladies in the bar, sometimes in perplexing ways.
• And ominously, some of the worst practices of Bacarra, namely the minimum of buying two lady drinks before you can barfine a girl, and charging a cover charge to get in the bar by way of forcing you to buy a drink outside, are now spreading. It was only a matter of time…

It’s pretty easy for me to identify when the gogo scene began to slide. It was in the early 2000’s, when Taksin Shinawatra first became prime minister. That’s when his interior minister began a “moral” crusade that resulted in the disappearance of nude dancing at Nana Plaza. One can still see fully nude dancers in Soi Cowboy in some bars (Doll House, Long Gun, Suzie Wong, and Crazy House come to mind), but Cowboy is in a different police district, and the cops there have long looked the other way (from what I understand, Crazy House and Long Gun are owned by high ranking police officers). But it disappeared in Nana.

After that, several demographic factors came into play through the rest of the decade that substantially altered the scene. First came the Japanese invasion so to speak. When I first visited Bangkok in 1998, there were very few Japanese to be seen in both Nana and Cowboy. They mostly stuck to Soi Thaniya off of Silom Road. I’m guessing starting around 2002-2004 or so their presence exploded, changing the scene dramatically. That’s when long times and GFE started disappearing. That’s when many girls became “short time only” and started returning to the bars so they could turn multiple bar fines in a single night. It was also when girls in some bars (primarily the Rainbows and Bacarra) began to focus solely on Japanese customers, refusing to go with anyone else. Another consequence is that prices started going up. The Japanese don’t negotiate, and in many cases, their company is footing the bill anyway. So they just pay whatever the girls asked for – it’s not coming out of their pockets.

The impact of these changes gradually took effect over time, but they were enough to already drive some regulars away to other shores. I remember I used to frequently take girls out on dates. After paying the barfine, I’d take them to dinner and then a movie, before going to the room. It was a true “girlfriend experience” evening. Those days are long gone, and quite frankly, I miss them. I didn’t do it with all of them, but I did it with a large number, and enjoyed it. Now it is all about quick short times. The fun is gone. That fact really hit me on this last trip.

The other major demographic factor that came into play is that it became vastly harder for the bars to recruit girls to work in them, thus the drop in both numbers and quality. This problem has become really pronounced the last five years. I’ve talked to several mamasans about it, as well as Dave. Everyone says it has gotten so hard to recruit now. Thailand is indeed a wealthier place, and girls have a lot more economic opportunity than they used to. In that sense, great for them. From a mongering perspective, it sucks for us!

There are far, far, far fewer girls dancing in the bars these days compared to the days of yore. Even three weeks ago, the week of New Year’s, the peak of the peak season, many bars had severely depleted lineups. I’d walk in and wonder where the hell the girls were. I could count the dancers in some bars using a single hand. Others had decent numbers, but still nothing like the old days. The quality of what is on offer also pales in comparison to former times. I remember going into bars and struggling to decide which girl to take, there were so many of my type to choose from. Now I struggle to find bars that have one girl I’d want to barfine. If I find one that has multiple girls of my type, I feel like I struck a bonanza. Times have certainly changed.

The coyote crap that began in the bars owned by “the Arab” (as he is commonly called by other bar owners) on Soi Cowboy has spread like a cancer to Nana, manifesting itself in two different forms. First are the coyote dancers who can’t be barfined; they just dance and will sit with you for a lady drink. Mandarin Table and Jailbirdz in Nana are two examples of places that use these types of dancers. The second form is the use of the term “coyote” to describe girls who can be barfined, but at a much higher rate than the regular dancers. Mandarin in Nana and Shark on Cowboy are two examples of this (they have the same owner). Each of these bars has one shift of dancers who can be barfined for 700 baht. The second shift of dancers, what they call the coyotes, can be barfined for 1500 baht. And quite frankly, there isn’t always a discernible difference in looks. It’s simply bullshit.

While I’m on the topic of Mandarin, a word of caution to you spinner lovers out there. For those of you who have been regulars over the years, you’ll know that Mandarin historically had two shifts of dancers. One shift consisted entirely of spinners in schoolgirl outfits, the other shift composed of the taller girls in bikinis. Mandarin has consistently been a steady source of hot spinners for me over the years. In fact I’ve barfined more girls out of that bar than any other bar in Bangkok. However, when I visited in October of last year, Mandarin had instituted the coyote shift crap I discussed above. Gone is the spinner shift in schoolgirl outfits. I didn’t barfine a single girl out of there in October; I did take one spinner a few weeks ago, but the loss of the “spinner shift” there is like a stab in the heart. Back in October, I bumped into one of the spinners I used to know at Mandarin. She was working in Bangkok Bunnies. Apparently one of the mamasans at Mandarin moved over to Bunnies, and this girl followed the mamasan.

In the early 2000’s, Bacarra on Cowboy was a great bar. Then it became wildly popular with the Japanese, and sometime around 2007 or 2008, Bacarra instituted a new policy where you had to buy a minimum of two lady drinks in order to barfine a lady. For me it was a bullshit move, and I boycotted Bacarra as a result – my last barfine there was in 2006. A few years ago, Bacarra also began their “cover charge” system of making guys buy a drink outside before they let you step foot in the bar. More bullshit.

Well they are now being copied. I twice tried to enter Crazy House over new year’s, and both times they had a doorman outside charging a 100 baht entry fee. More bullshit. Then on my last night in Bangkok, I went to Dollhouse on Cowboy to get a spinner I met on New Year’s Eve. I didn’t barfine her the night I met her, as the barfine was set at 4000 baht that night, but I did buy her two tequilas at the time. When I went back to get her, lo and behold, Dollhouse was requiring a minimum of two lady drinks before you could barfine a lady. Reluctantly I paid for two more drinks so I could take her out. Yes, more bullshit, and now Dollhouse is on the boycott list as well.

My current state of disgruntlement with the gogo scene has of course led me to wonder if the grass is greener down in Pattaya. Ceenotes has been telling me for years to get my ass down there. In light of what is going on in Bangkok, I am certainly inclined to give it a “third chance” and see if I can get some of the GFE from days of yore. We’ll see what happens when the time comes.

With that out of the way, here is some recent intel on the bars. Standard barfines at both Nana and Cowboy run between 600 and 700. I’d say more than half the bars are at 700 for the “regular” dancers, and who knows what for their “coyote” shifts. I’m not sure about all of Patpong, but I know a few bars there have gone to 1000 barfines, such as Electric Blue, which of course makes Patpong even less appealing than it already is.

What are the going rates? 2500 is the new norm for short time. Back in October during the low season, everyone took 2000 except for a Rainbow 1 girl who I paid 2500 to. This time I mostly paid 2500, though a few did take 2000. Many girls are asking for 3000, but will take 2500.

Long time is a minimum of 4000, if you can even find someone willing to do it. Back in October, I did my first long time in 5 years with a girl out of Suzie Wong, and she asked for 4000. A girl I spoke with at Nana also asked for 4000 long time.

Over the new year’s holiday, I checked out every bar in Nana that featured real women, with the exception of Rainbow 4 (hate that bar). Based on what I saw at the time, I would have to say that the best lineup was in Rainbow 3, believe it or not. They had by far and away the best collection of spinners, and is certainly worth a look.

One big positive change in Nana is the opening of Bangkok Bunnies. This vast bar took over the spaces where Voodoo and Pretty Girl used to be (Pretty Girl became Spellbound, but I’m using the old name). The bar is huge inside, with multiple stage areas. They did a fantastic job and everyone should drop by for a look. Back in October they had a huge number of girls on stage; a few weeks ago the numbers were vastly diminished. But it’s still worth a look.

Jailbirdz up on the third floor is also a large bar. Back in October it had a number of cute spinners; over new year’s they were gone, with the best looking girls being coyote dancers you can’t barfine. Billboard is worth a visit. There was one slinky taller girl there on my “to do” list that I never got a chance to get back to.

Spanky’s was good for a drink, if only because they play real music in there, and not that techno electro crap that most other places spew out. There was one cute spinner there who I called down for a drink, but she turned out to be a complete dud who made no effort to make a sale, so I threw her back in the pond.

Both upper and lower Erotica had weak selections over new year’s, which is too bad, given they are another historically reliable source of spinners. But one should always poke their head in to see what’s up. Mandarin Table had a smoking hot spinner, so make sure you look in there. And there was one upstairs at Mandarin as well.

Over on Cowboy, things were dire. I couldn’t believe a lot of what I was seeing on many of the stages: a lot of overweight, elderly women. In the past three trips, I’ve barfined a total of 2 girls: one out of Suzie Wong, the other out of Dollhouse. Shark, which used to be my go to bar on Cowboy, was pretty dreadful. And what is it with all the fake boobs there? Tilac was pretty busy, with a pretty good buzz going on inside. I didn’t see anything to my taste, but the place was crowded.

I read on Stickman that Crazy House has bought the old Dutch restaurant that sits at the end of Cowboy at the intersection with soi 23, and that they plan to knock down the walls and create a mega bar, with entrances on both Cowboy and soi 23. I wonder if they’ll keep the cover charge they had in place over new year’s.

More to come…

Excellent summation on a sad situation.

As we discussed last week, I loved the GFE in Bangkok. Whatever girl I was with - I let her deal with the taxi drivers, pick the restaurants, hit some clubs, saw many movies and THEN went back to the hotel or serviced apartment.

That's why I really like Colombia. The GFE was (and hopefully is) alive and well through 2014, the last time I visited. Weather is much better too. A pleasure to deal with the taxi drivers. Plus I speak Spanish. Communication is key.

As I'm now based in Malaysia, Colombia is not in the cards. The good news is, plenty of options here.

I'm starting to like Jakarta. Once you know how to manage the traffic, it's a lot of fun. Indonesian girls are WAY more fun than their Malaysian counterparts.

I still like Phuket a lot. Bangkok has lost it's charm for me. I wouldn't go to Pattaya for free. That doesn't mean you can't have fun there - it just doesn't work for me.

MS,

I'm the opposite...I avoid GFE and take the ST.

Sound like me at the end of my trip but once you get back to the states for a few months. You'll forgot about what you just wrote and purchase another ticket for Thailand.

I think the action fell off right when tent city went up with the 2014 coup. Never been the same.

Guess I've been going every six month now..I just roll with the punches, sometimes you have great trips and some are so-so. One thing is I stay out late. On my last trip, I was just about to go home at 4am leaving Level and decided to have one more drink at Climax and holy shit...found a 21 yo gem to party with until 9am.

Come on down to Pattaya! It's a shithole with no glitter like BKK but you can look at go-go after go-go.


Maybe you should consider what the girls do when they come in for work and pray for a "lucky customer" Before you leave your hotel, pray for a lucky GFE.

let me try to put out some positives, reasons, excuses, whatever we might label them. and i'm a go go guy 100%. the other stuff isn't that fun for me.

the drink policies at baccara aren't that bad. i always buy a drink at a go go bar. and i don't recall paying bar for a gal w/o buying her two drinks. so this might be more of a principle thing than a practical thing. it isn't one of my go to bars but i bring friends/visitors in there and they bar fine girls and are quite happy.

the 100thb door charge at crazy house (not sure if that is still going or just for holidays). after what i've seen in there, i think i'd do the same thing. there are guys in there that buy one drink and sit there for two hours nursing the drink and smoking a half pack of cigarettes (i smoke sometimes so i'm not knocking smokers). the waitresses hound the guys about another drink but they just wave them off.

i hope these two 'policies' are in place to try and keep the bar seats open for real customers. guys that buy drinks and pay bar fines. both of these places get really crowded and the last thing we need is 10-15 guys taking up the best seats with no plan to take a girl or buy a second drink. go home and watch a porn or something. let us get in there and do our business.

honestly i think the best approach would be to just kick these guys out. put up a sign (in five languages) that says you are booted after an hour if you don't buy another drink (for you or a lady). they'd get pissed off and hopefully never come back.

CN is right on with the stay out late. i've adjusted my schedule so i'm out until the bars close. a friend/visitor of mine got a girl from mercury just last month at closing time. no bar fine, he paid 2,000, and fucked/slept at her place !!!!

the girls don't even care about showing up 'on time' for work these days. so it doesn't really help to be there at 9pm or 9:30 hoping you'll get a look at the best of the best. those days are over. the girls show up when they want. some bars have late show penalties, 5thb a minute (i think some are 3thb). and this is deducted from their salary. most coyotes have drink quotas, i couldn't believe my ears when i heard 150/mo at mercury. maybe it was a lie. i remember shark bar required 12 bar fines and 60 drinks to qualify for the salary. 150 is out of hand !! the bottom line is the girls that get bar fined don't give a shit about their 10-12k salary. they make that in a couple days with customers. so they just show up when they want and that isn't at 9pm. more like 11pm.

as i noted in some recent posts, i'm on the fence right now about leaving bkk. i've been here for 6 years (before that 2 in phuket and 1 in pattaya). i'm hanging in there given the recent rise in the exchange rate. and i like using bkk as a travel hub for SEA. easy to visit HK, vietnam, the PI, etc...

i'm still figuring out the whole coyote deal but i know some of the bars make the girl pay 1,000thb if she doesn't show up. so you can arrange to meet them that night by paying 1,000thb to her (instead of paying 1500 to the bar). i'll try to put a 'coyote' thread together once i get more info and can remember what policies apply to which bars. i know dollhouse gets their own coyotes. but almost all other bars use an agency.

and to end on a negative note, there is a bar next to toy bar at the asoke end of cowboy. named cocktail club. all coyotes, bar fine is 3,000 (like cowboy 2). the shark coyotes rotate btwn this bar and shark. and they tell me guys pay the 3,000 bar fine. so we are in real trouble if that is the future bar fine level. that said, the girls prefer to work at shark as they get more customers there.

i forgot this beauty. it is hard to believe but many girls actually go back to their home town over the xmas/new year holiday. one of my regular girls went back to chiang mai for 10 days. and a buddy of mine had two of his three girls gone. he was happy as he didn't have to do the usual juggling act. at rainbow 1, i asked my waitress friend where all the girls were, and she said many went home and planned to come back for NYE. even then, that is so they can go party with their friends.

i think it is because they have kids at their home town and the kids get a break from school. why a buddhist country would have a school holiday over this time, i don't understand but i'm pretty sure that is the reason.

another reason may be the guy that sends them 30,000thb a month all year long makes one of his several trips during the year in that two week period. so the girls don't go to work.

(Message edited by buick on January 19, 2016)

The other issue besides easy to please Far East Asians is the increase in girls finding PLM's and dates on facebook, Line and Whatsapp. It basically takes out the middle man. Once the girl has been working in the gogo for a year and is hot, she has a core of guys that will send her money for doing nothing and at least one guy in town at the moment. Once the girl gets her core, she can then poach the guys monger friends if she can figure out that the guy has a separate mongering Facebook account and most of his friends are in the same hobby. Medellin girls have mastered this technique.

Mura, I fully agree with your Bangkok observations and the timeline.

I always preferred Pattaya to Bangkok since my first trip to Thailand in 2001 due to the sheer abundance and lower costs. Bangkok was just the first and last few nights of a trip so I didn't have to go too far to Don Muang airport. Later I decided to increase the number of days in Bangkok per trip (about 3 per year) just to see Bangkok itself, shop dine sight see and get laid at night.

Then as you described, the scene deteriorated, I think in large part due to the new airport being closer to Pattaya. If it took longer to go to Bangkok which is pricier than Pattaya and you've seen it's major highlights, why keep going there? Multiply that logic by thousands of Euro trash tourists and Pattaya exploded in mongering growth while Bangkok declined.

However the growth was in more go gos which killed off daytime beer bar action and later turned Pattaya into a massive tourist trap for Russians. Coyotes abound and those damned ping pong balls and everything else make go gos essentially a has been option for me. I would go to them, then go to Lucifer or Insomnia and pick one of the hundreds of freelancers. Sure you don't have the recourse of a mamasan but other than an occasional dud, I never had a safety or security issue and best of all never got pressured to buy a girl a drink. I'm a grown up and can choose whom I'd like to buy drinks for.

Blazers is right that the dynamic has changed due to social media. Customers are "stakeholders" and expected to give "feedback" to businesses so they can "better serve them" and it's just horse shit to get free market research out of wannabes. Well working girls operate like this now and few businesses are going to have things all laid out for the casual monger anymore. The public meeting point is disappearing with one exception: discos.

Insomnia and Lucifer were the go to freelance pick up spots in Pattaya and I prefer dealing directly with girls there and not having some mamasan push me to buy drinks. Yeah there's no angel witch style show, but there's far more girls in a disco than any one go go ever had eliminating the chore of bar hopping buying dozens of drinks before you see a girl you like. Typically you'll find one within minutes and you're already in a semi GFE setting from the get go. You can always do the movie and time in Sabai Lodge's pool the next day if you hit it off. In fact you can talk about it before you even leave the disco and if she's not down, you can trade whats apps and be on to the next girl and you're only one drink down.

Judging from your commentary Mura I'd say you're graduating out of go gos and perhaps you haven't given Pattaya, which has always been more conducive to GFE anyway, a complete day in court so to speak. All the best, I'd love to see your opinion on a Pattaya/Bangkok compare and contrast.

Ceenotes, of course I'll be back to Bangkok. It's just that the gogos won't be the centerpiece of the action when I'm there. And who knows, maybe I'll take a liking to Pattaya if I can recapture the quality GFE from days of yore.

Also, GFE doesn't always equal LT. I frequently did LT when I took the girls out on dates, but not always. ST after the dinner and movie was actually more common. I always wanted to see how she was in bed before I made the ST-LT decision.

Poppa, I've given Pattaya two chances in the past, and it failed both times. But time has passed and maybe the third time is the charm. I will give it another go and see what's up.

Buick, I've been seeing the same issue about the numbers of girls in the bars for the past several years, in a variety of different months: January, February, March, April, August, September, October, November, December. Regardless of the month, many bars simply have few girls available compared to the past. And about 12 years ago I spent the week of Christmas and New Year's in Bangkok, and the bars were filled to the rafters with girls, as it was the peak, peak season. So this going home thing is definitely a recent phenomena.

Also, it has always been extremely rare for me to buy, let alone need to buy, two lady drinks. When I pull off the stage, I'm already 80-90% certain I'd like to spend time with her, or bang her. The drink buys me the 1-3 extra minutes I need to get to 100%. That's all the time I need to pull the trigger or cut bait. If I need to buy a second drink, something is wrong!

Buick: "I think it is because they have kids at their home town and the kids get a break from school. why a Buddhist country would have a school holiday over this time, i don't understand but i'm pretty sure that is the reason."

It's the same reason that most countries have the holidays at that time of the year - they follow the calendar. January begins the school year and December ends it with breaks in between. Mostly the US starts in September. ..not the rest of the world.

i didn't mean to suggest that the bars don't have fewer girls than the past. i actually submitted an email to stickman early last year about the decline at shark bar over a two year period. they went from 100 girls to 50 and now 25. then they had to get coyotes to fill the place up. i'm practically a staff member at shark so i get this info straight from the mamasan, dj's, service folks, etc...

and i want you guys to know that buick has finally stepped up and now has a smartphone !!!! a friend of a friend had a problem with 'ice' in bkk and wanted to borrow some money. as a former banker, i refused the loan and instead suggested some type of asset sale. so i got an iphone 4 and apple tv for 8,000thb. i will confess that i 'loaned' an additional 4,000 a couple days later so the guy could pay his hotel bill and get to the airport to go back to the US and get his life straightened out.

murasaki, i hope you don't mind if i do a semi-hijack of your thread and post my first lady picture. this is my chiang mai girl. known her about a year. who knows how long she will be in my stable. i know she has a japanese supporter so could depart my stable at some point.


i've been the last person on earth to get started on the social media. i have line and whatsapp now. blazers notes the girls have their 'core' group and there is no doubt about that. i chuckle a bit when i see one of the 'hot' shark ladies that has been absent for several months and then shows up for work. obviously, her 'core' got a little to small and she needed to rebuild. it is a tough go for them, they don't look you in the eye for the first couple days. they figured they were done with shark but have to do the 'work of shame' again !!!!

Muraski: "... wonder if the grass is greener down in Pattaya. Ceenotes has been telling me for years to get my ass down there. ..."

Number-wise, you stand a better chance of getting a go-go girl's gfe in Pattaya than in Bangkok.

However, like Bangkok, the quantity of girls in Pattaya has also declined a lot and competition has increased. Nevertheless, during the daylight hours in malls and among tourists, I see a bunch of senior dudes limping around with girls (most are young).

I supposed, but do not know, if you lower your standard to beer bar girls, you might score gfe with one of those girls. Or, try the go-go girls in the clubs on Soi LK. Those girls are older and frequently have a kid or two.

Could it be that some of you guys are just getting burned out on the Thailand scene in general? Even though the currency in Brasil has partially crashed, and prices are down at least 40% from when I was last there 2.5 years ago, I don't have a major desire to go back at this point. 50-some trips in 10 years pretty much did it for me. I was getting pickier and pickier, and the return on investment of going down for 9-11 days, the long plane ride, the same old, same old once there. The girls didn't seem nearly as hot as they used to be, all of the small hassles over the years had chipped away at my patience, some of the old places had closed with no new places to really replace them.

I don't think it's a Bangkok problem as much as it is that 15-18 years after mongering hit the internet age and exploded, there isn't much new to discover at this point. Also, the rules of the road are way different. We had the upper hand 15 years ago. We could read trip reports, develop strategies, really get educated and prepared before hitting a spot. Which places to avoid and which to hit. Which women to avoid, which ones to seek out. How to avoid scams, how to avoid danger, how to minimize the bullshit, or at least not fall for it completely.

Now, a lot of girls know how to use telecommunications to up their game. As mentioned above, a girl with a few regular customers can easily build a book of business via social media. WhatsApp is so prevalent in Brasil now that I have girls I haven't seen in years occasionally ping me for a program. Communications is so easy now that a guy can have a whole week of girls set up before they even get to the airport. Why deal with a whorehouse when you can deal with mongers directly?

I agree completely. I travel a lot for business now in Brazil, Europe and just starting to go to Asia.

I used to do a lot of research just on this site before going on a trip. Now the level of posting is almost non-existent and I have to go to a bunch of sites to find information. Maybe its up to date, maybe its not. Even the girls are quoting their prices in US Dollars...funny.

I hate to say, this is going to make our hobby much more difficult and expensive in the long run. I just decided to relocate to Europe so I can be closer to the action (an hour and about $100 in airfare) and go on much smaller trips, usually associated with a business trip. I'm lucky, most are not.

I'm depressed!

As Cat put it, " there isn't much new to discover at this point". No new frontiers to explore. I was in Bangkok when Thaksin's moral crusade literally changed Nana Plaza over night. More recently in Rio, we saw the lights go out at Help and Terrazo, and then Luomo. My perception was that, once again, it was a moral crusade that had the chilling effect of stifling the night life on Avenida Atlantico and Zona Sul in general. Colombia still maintains a lot of it's provincial charm especially in Cali and Medellin, but those venues lack the wonderful nightlife and fun we enjoyed apart from the pursuit .That said, the business is still the same as are the market forces. The Internet has changed the game. Consequently, maybe the vehicle through which we shared our experiences has lost a bit of it's glimmer.

Another point is that we're all 10-15 years older. I used to do my DC to Rio 16 hour door-to-door trip, throw my luggage on the bed, grab a change of close, run down to the ATM to get some money, get some credits for my phone, and I was off to a termas. No sleep, no stopping for lunch, just dive right in. Hit a termas, have dinner, go to wherever that night. These days, that's a bit harder to accomplish. For most of the guys who've been on this board since the beginning, there are a lot of you in your late 50s and 60s. It's definitely not as easy anymore.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks for the lowdown, Murasaki. I'm skipping Thailand this year for a return to Medellin, so we'll see.

And I don't have a cellphone, never sent a text in my life, let alone a fucking WhatsApp....

Guess I'm shit out of luck, huh?

I think my first posts were around 2001 or so. I just got back from Costa Rica and met a guy who turned me on to this site. Scott was his name, I don't even know if he's still alive as he was about 60 or so when I met him.

I am 49, about to turn 50. I agree it isn't as easy as those manic days when I'd go to an FKK club and fuck all day into the evening. However I am still good for 3 pops if I take my time.

One of the things I love about living in Europe is the access to local talent. Sure its a bit more expensive per pop but if you start taking away 16 hour flights and 10 days of hotel room, the price is actually less. Harder if you are in the US (I actually am from California originally) where you are only close to Mexico.

Another thing about Europe, mostly Czech, Germany, Switzerland and others, prostitution is legal and regulated so you still get the "Terma" experience and fairly good selection.

A lot of good points here, especially on being burned out. However, the observations about things in Bangkok and Pattaya, are true. I'd say it's also true of Angeles. When it starts costing significant money to monger and you have to take a 24 hour trek all in from the US to AC or Bangkok, it burns you out.

When Thailand was a new horizon with brilliant bright buddhist temples next to the highway that made me feel like I was on a new planet, mongering was quite exciting. I haven't taken a trip solely for mongering in years, but I do my homework on what mongering options are available wherever I'm going. My best advice for veteran mongers is find a hobby that brings you to new horizons whether it be diving, cycling, photography or whatever.

Sniper, I hear you about relocating to where pussy is better and cheaper when you cut out airfare etc. Visting prostitutes in Germany is almost as casual as watching porn in the US. You can probably go once a week and then enjoy great cuisine as part of everyday life. Sounds great!

Burned out??

Hey fellas,

After reading all the downside of Thailand. Shit...I put Pattaya at the very top of my list.

My routine is to meet up at TG around 3pm. Then to Soi 6 at 5pm, then to soi 7/8 at 7pm, then a light dinner. Go-go bars on walking street/LK Metro around 9:30pm, then the disco's at 2am, then JP pool bar at 7am.

It's alot of boozing but 3-4 new pops a day.

Where in the fucking world.. you can see hundreds of girl selection in 12 hour day and taking anyone of them down. Better yet...if I happen to see a stellar while walking out with one on my arm...no worries...comeback in two hours or the next day.

I can do this in Pattaya for 3 months straight (less drinking). Then I'll start getting tired of it.

If Pattaya didn't exist. My Thailand trips will be cut by 3/4.

Final note...alot of folks prefer BKK over Pattaya since they say its a bit extreme. Like most call it BKK on steroids. I even friends call it a cess pool and they'll never go back.

Buick; I have to ask you for some intel on HCMC if I decide to check it out.

Photo: CM Girl 01

Photo: CM Girl 02

PV - you got to get the smart phone. even buick is learning new stuff now. i feel like i just graduated from college again. off into a brand new world.

i still can't take pictures worth a shit. but i can upload pictures taken by others (typically selfies !!!!).

sniper - i visit europe once a year. i was in amsterdam and nice in march 2015. and amsterdam and milan in 2014. i love using amsterdam as a transit hub. and with my operating base being bangkok, flights are dirt cheap. in 2015, i actually stepped up and paid for business class on emirates only $2,000usd. into AMS and out of NCE. decent layovers in DXB. the year before i flew in/out of AMS on EVA in econ for $800usd (nonstop flight !!!). you can still find ladies in AMS, not what it used to be but still fun for me. and i go to the other places for a change of pace. scenery is great (the cities, the ladies, and the countryside).

hopefully i get a pass on going a bit off topic as i just posted my first pictures to clubhombre since i joined via the redsnake merge many years ago !!!!

Photo: Coyote

the above is a 3k bar fine coyote. she has since taken off the braces for fashion, cut her hair, and dyed it blond.

as a coincidence, i'm wearing a shirt i picked up in AMS (per previous post). the super thin material is perfect for the heat of bkk.

i have not paid the bar fine for this one. but do buy a couple 200thb drinks for her once or twice a month. still working on a no bar fine outing but it doesn't seem to be in the cards.......

Buick, no worries about posting photos. Post away!

However, a 3000 barfine for that is simply absurd, especially in light of the 4000 girl at Nataree that I am about to mention.

Historically there were two features of the gogo bar experience that had me placing it in priority over the massage parlor scene. First was the fact that they gave you the opportunity to completely scope out a girl’s body, particularly back in the days when all the bars had fully nude dancers. But even bikinis still let you examine the goods. Massage parlors were historically at a disadvantage, given that the girls were in fishbowls (sometimes at a decent distance from your vantge point), sitting down, and clothed.

The second was the GFE – the ability, if one wanted to, of taking the girl out on a date, and having a real night on the town before the horizontal gymnastics. Frequently this led to long times and repeat sessions, or short time sessions with multiple pops. Massage parlors were again at a disadvantage, with the built-in time limit and on site enclosure (although one could get a phone number and develop a relationship outside of the parlor, which some of us have done).

But of course, things have changed. Massage parlors have closed the gap on the first feature, with fishbowls mostly disappearing, enabling you to get much closer to girls and interact with them. And the girls frequently stand, such as Nataree, or lineups are done for you, such as in the many teen massage joints on Sukhumvit. It’s still not like a gogo, but it is now far easier to assess a body than it used to be.

It is the second feature where the narrowing of differences is most pronounced. Gogos have in some ways turned into virtual massage parlors, with the girls rushing to get back to the bars to get another customer. This is frequently encouraged by the mamasans, and by the bars paying a bonus to the girls if they return to work. Ironically one can get a better deal in the massage parlours, with their 90 minute sessions, or in the teen places, where you can get two hours for just a few hundred baht more than the price for one hour, plus multiple pops. Try getting multiple pops with a gogo girl these days! Sometimes it is possible, especially when they fall asleep in your room, but it is extremely rare. With the price increases in the gogos, the value proposition of the massage parlors is mighty attractive.

I am happy to report that the massage parlor scene in Bangkok is a bright spot, especially because of the value. For those who are not all that familiar with the scene, there are essentially two types of massage joints in Bangkok. First are the big massage parlors that are sometimes referred to as “soapies.” These places are quite large, and sometimes have large numbers of girls available (easily over 100 in the case of Nataree). Many of these palaces are on Ratchadaphisek and Petchaburi Roads. Wealthy locals are the main clientele for these joints, but they are also popular with the Japanese and westerners.

Second are the “teen” massage places that line certain sois off of Sukhumvit Road. These are much smaller venues that occupy row houses, and strictly cater to farangs and the Japanese. The number of girls at each venue varies, but ranges from around 4 or 5 in the smallest houses up to 30 or so at the biggest, such as Addict and Angel. I consider the teen places to be the best bang for your buck in Bangkok, aside from a great freelancer you might find on the street.

For the big massage parlors, by far and away my current favorite is Nataree. The downside of Nataree is that the building and rooms are really old. The upside is the selection on offer can be heavenly. Nataree still has a fishbowl, but there is rarely anyone in it. They’ve shifted to a freelancer model where the girls come and go as they please and hang out in the lobby. Many of them are college students earning extra cash in the evenings after classes. Another upside is that Nataree is located very close to an MRT station, so it is quite easy to get there any time of day – one never needs to worry about surface traffic.

Nataree is also known for having a selection of girls from Myanmar. But these girls are not from the Burmese ethnic group. They are from the Shan group. The Shan state is in the golden triangle, and borders Thailand in the Chiang Rai area. The Shan people are ethnically Thai, so these girls basically look like Chiang Rai girls. This is a very good thing because in my book, Chiang Rai definitely has some of the best looking women in Thailand.

The best time to hit Nataree is around 6ish. That’s when all the girls are there, ready to receive the first wave of guys coming in after work. There will easily be a 100 girls available, sometimes more. Most of the girls are offered at the basic price of 2600 baht for a 90 minute session. For the remainder, prices are something like 2800, 2900, 3000, 4000, and 5000. Very few girls are at the 4000 and 5000 range – probably a dozen or so. One time I even encountered one at 6000, who was quite breathtaking to say the least.

Frequently there is no discernible difference in looks between the girls at the lower end of the scale, though usually at the higher end they are very good looking, or have really pale skin. Back in October, I took a smoking hot spinner with a beautiful face, and she was only 2600. Go figure. She was from Myanmar, from the Shan state.

Back in January of 2015 I wound up forking over 4000 for a gorgeous girl, also from the Shan state. I had never paid that much before, but she was so damn good looking that I splurged. Geez she was a sight to behold. And the look on her face at first penetration was worth the entire price of the session. I still chuckle about it and will never forget it. I think her eyeballs might still be rolling on the floor somewhere.

Next up, I’ll talk about the teen places.

i almost moved from my sukhumvit place to a bldg almost across the street from nataree. just a few steps from the MRT huay khwang. no lack of talent in nataree but the sub 4000 girls just don't look that great when you see the 4000 and up girls. like you say, i saw a 6000 girl and she was looking really really good. i couldn't justify the pricing immediately. then i started to get more comfortable with it (as i saw her strutting around). and some guy picked her off right as i was telling papasan i'll take her !!!!

and i'll leave bkk before i pay a 3k bar fine (unless baht goes to 90 per dollar !!!). i think the bars with these girls want them to stay in the bar and generate drink business. i keep telling the girl i'll give her 3k for short time if she shows up at my place before she goes to work. but she has not accepted my offer yet.

rainbow 1 was looking very good on saturday night. an aussie friend of mine took home a real stunner 4k for l/t. i had reserved a shark coyote, the one that pulled a 'runner' on me a couple weeks ago. so i got l/t from her for 2.5k since i wasted the 1.5k bar fine the 'runner' night. took awhile but got some payback for that. the last girl i took from rainbow 1 didn't want l/t but was fine to leave nana, have some food and drink, and then go to my place (paid her 3k). there seem to be more and more girls in there that don't require use of the s/t rooms at nana. i think rainbow 1 is the best go go bar right now. they don't allow smoking. it doesn't get overcrowded (like baccara and crazy house). no coyotes or lady boys. it might not look real good on a monday or tuesday. but friday and saturday are great.

Photo: BGirl

buriram girl. she's been in my core group for years. she's got her own core also and hasn't needed to go back to the bar for years. spends alot of time in buriram. i go up there a few times a year to hang out. not a bad place to go for a break from bkk (i fly on air asia $50 r/t). she's 30 yrs old (no kids). she has two nieces who pumped out kids at age 16. so she is getting anxious on the baby front.......

the girl in the first photos up above (two of same girl), is 22 and has a 4 yr old son.

The teen massage places have proliferated in recent years, and on this most recent trip I discovered a whole new batch that I previously never knew about. The scene is very strong, and as I said previously, I consider them to be the best bang for the buck in Bangkok. Ground zero for the these places is the general vicinity around the skytrain’s Phrom Phong station.

Just off of soi 24 in a little horseshoe alley (the same alley where the back door to Baron’s used to be, RIP), you’ll find about 5 or 6 places, including the famous Mango, and the best of them all, Addict. Addict appeared on the scene a few years ago now, and generally has the largest lineup of any teen place. The girls are all dressed in flight attendant outfits. Prices run around 2000 baht all in for an hour session. I think 90 minutes was 2100 baht, and two hours was 2300. The girls here offer multiple pops, like Mango and Snow White.

Back in October, I found a very good looking girl here, that I wound up coming back for a repeat. She was a college student at Ramkhamhaeng University. Honey was 20 and tallish, with light skin. She had been working there 8 days, and planned on another two months before going back to school. She had a fantastic body and I had a great time with her, both visits.

Walking towards soi 26, one will encounter a little alley just before 26 that is soi 24/1. This little soi is a packed goldmine of teen joints. There are about 10 places in a row, with Angel sitting at the very end. Most of these places have anywhere from 3 to 6 girls. Angel usually has around 15 to 20. I have found gems in just about all of them at sometime or another. The prices are usually pretty close to what Addict charges. Figure on a base of around 2000 for one hour. On my most recent visit, the two “Otemachi” places had raised their base to 2500, trying to go upmarket. There is no need to pay that when everyone else is 500 baht cheaper. Boss and Dream Heaven have been very good to me, but I’ve pulled from almost all of them at some point in time.

Over on soi 26, sitting by itself, is the famous Snow White. Snow White has never had what one could call an attractive lineup. Most all of the girls are in their late twenties or thirties. But once in a while you find a fantastic MILF in there, and they all throw down, like they used to do at Tulip back in the day. A number of girls at Snow White will do anal, something that is not commonly on offer from Thai girls.

In all these years, I had never gone down soi 26 past Snow White. But I heard from a girl in Dream Heaven on soi 24/1 that there was a Dream Heaven 2 located down on soi 26. So I decided to wander down there to check it out. It was located at the head of a side soi not too far into soi 26 – maybe another 100 meters or so. And what I discovered was that it was not alone! There were two places across from it on soi 26 (one was called Paradise, the other Yorimichi), another place adjacent to it, and then walking down the little side soi were a few more small places, intermingled with several Japanese izakaya. And the at the very end was a larger place called 101 Premier. Here is an easy map showing where they are, on their web site: http://www.101premiermassage.com/en/location/

I can’t speak to the quality of the lineup, because they only had two girls available when I visited. It was the week of new year’s, and all of these places were packed every day. The constant refrain I heard was they were all upstairs with customers. But I will be sure to check them out on future trips.

There are some teen places scattered elsewhere. A number of them are down soi 33, though I rarely check them out. I believe there are some down soi 22 as well. And on soi 8, there is Bamboo, a place opened by a former Mango girl. I did go up to check out the lineup, and it was “elderly.” But if that’s your thing, it’s real close to Nana station.

Tulip used to be the reigning champ in this scene before it went downhill some 5 years ago. Has anyone been there recently to check it out? I’d be curious to hear what they have to say.

My daily routine the past couple of trips was to go hit the teen places in the early afternoon, have dinner, then hit the gogo bars at night for the second girl of the day. As you’ve already read above, I’ll be changing that formula in the future. I will still hit the teen places in the afternoon, but I think I will start hitting a lot of the big massage parlors in the evening, occasionally mixing in a gogo bar or other venue for diversity.

Good intel Murasaki, thanks. If what's shown on their website is any reflection of reality, 101 Premier has got a pretty solid lineup.

Great update Murasaki, thanks for sharing! Lots of different ways to find hotties and good GFE besides bars or clubs these days. If you have a stable of regulars from over the years typically they have FB and you can introduce yourself to their friends and go from there. Whatsapp, Viber and dating sites work as well. I've gotten to the point where I hardly ever bar fine gals anymore, even on extended stays. Are there costs associated? Sure but typically much less than what you'll spend on an entry fee, drinks, bar fine and a tip for 30 minutes of hopefully a good session. If you're the type who likes monkey fucking force marches to rack up the numbers then it can get even more expensive. Social media has changed the way people connect and the gals in Asia are the same as everyone else their age, they spend 90% of their waking hours communicating on one cell phone platform or another. Also, I always have a wing woman in tow for a few reasons. They have lots of friends, they put other gals at ease and if your pull is a dud or a runner you've got a back up in place.

Ah, the emergency hooker. Open only in case of pulling a starfish.

I had much better sex at the teen massage/oily places scattered around the Soi 22-24-26 area than I did with the go go girls.

The lineups at these places vary from day to day and week to week. They are close enough together that you can hit a half dozen, check out the lineups, and then return to the one you liked the most.

I just returned a few days ago from BKK and was quite disappointed in the go gos. The lineups weren't strong, the mama sans were unusually pushy, and the prices are high. To get a girl out for short time will set you back about 700b bar fine, 2500 st, and any drinks. You can occasionally get girls for 2000, but not the lookers, some of whom won't leave for under 3000bt. Even at these elevated prices, the quality of the service was mediocre at best, and occasionally lousy.

The massage places don't have as many lookers, but the services were always good. The bar girls want to split after one pop. The massage girls are with you for whatever time you pay, and you can fuck them repeatedly.

I find it bizarre, but BKK is for me now more expensive than Rio, at least with respect to the sex. I pay $62 in Rio for my freelancers (FOR 2-3 hours). In BKK freelancers were asking 3000-4000bt , or between $80-$100 (for one pop). Pulling a bar girl cost over $100. The only deal in BKK was the massage places.

As to Catacony's point about burnout: it hasn't happened for me yet with respect to Brazil (and Rio specifically), but that's probably because my trips there have always been about more than mongering. Days on the beach, surfing, visiting with friends, bike rides and long walks all add to the enjoyment.Plus, there's the fun of running around downtown visiting the real-a-minute fast foda casas, drinking in the street side bars with local friends, dinner at any of dozens of excellent restaurants, catching some live music in Lapa, and so forth. With Brazil's economy going into the shitter, I found that my freelance girls had lots of young friends anxious to make a little money. Yes, the scene has changed dramatically over the years, but I'm enjoying the new Rio quite a bit. The only thing missing is the other mongers. Their loss.

(Message edited by Bwana_dik on January 30, 2016)

Bwana, where were you meeting freelancers wanting 3000-4000 for ST? They were asking for 1500 in the Nana Plaza parking lot.

I hope the freelancers in the Soi 7 Beer Garden aren't looking for that kind of money.

Actually Cat, open anytime I get the urge. Nothing better than a hot, passionate threesome!

I avoid the Nana park girls. They are for the most part a scary lot. I'm referring to girls shopping their wares in Tinder, Facebook and LINE. The Soi 7 Biergarten girls? I did't ask. I stopped by twice and all were either unattractive or looked to be over 40. I've had luck there in the past, but saw no doable girls this time.

Bwana,

Maybe prices are high since the girls are off setting the 36/1 THB rate. Few years ago, I was getting 30/1


MS,
1500 in Nana parking lot??
Way to high!
I never pulled but been quoted 800-1000 on my out of Nana to grab a cab.



Beer Garden don't have any talent but you can get out there for 1000-1500...depends.

Level nightclub and Mixx Club still holds the highest prices for freelancers. (or they try)

there are a whole bunch of soi 11 club girls that try for outrageous prices. a guy sent stickman a good summary of their 'escapades' a few weeks back. the girls will ask as much as 8,000. they do look fantastic, i don't get to soi 11 all that often when i'm running solo but i always take visiting friends over there. that is when i hear the huge quotes. their goal (as outlined by the guy who wrote into stickman) is to out drink the customer (and they have a high tolerance) and have the guy passed out before any action gets started. then, give a quick morning session before they bail out.

you can usually catch them doing their pre-party at oskars (across from levels), sipping wine and looking good (one girl 'graduated' from shark bar into this higher level business, i've seen her numerous times). guys buy them drinks all night and they only need to 'hook' a few guys a month at 5,000+ to get by.

the soi 7 biergarten is open but it is done. there is no reason to go there unless you enjoy the food.

I've enjoyed reading this discussion. Back when I was active on this board I was almost exclusively a LatAm guy, but life and business has given me a lot more time in APAC over the past 8 or 9 years. A lot of that time has been in Thailand, both for work and for fun.

Things certainly have changed, and I can understand it being perceived as for the worse. It's natural - when you find a new place and become enamored, you do so on the basis of what said place has to offer at that time. So when things change, it is natural to see that as a bad thing.

Personally I like a lot of the way things are now. I love using WeChat, Line, WhatsApp etc as tools for hooking up. I don't find the price increases to be out of line with the way prices for other goods and services around the world have gone up, and maybe out of dumb luck I've still found really great GFEs on a pretty regular basis. The bar scene has changed, but definitely is not dead, and it's still pretty easy to meet girls in the massage places...even the quasi-legit 300 baht/hr foot massage places often have cute girls that can be chatted up and taken out later. LOS has changed, as has the world, but it still offers access to good times and beautiful girls in a way no other place I know can do.

LM