So in the morning, after the great sex, I invited Fabiana her to come along on an excursion to the Cristo statue on top of the highest hill of Rio. I did this with one of Don's taxi drivers and he delivered a very nice trip up the hill, which I filmed in detail for a project entirely unrelated to mongering. She really appreciated being invited and it seemed to solidify our relationship as a temporary couple.

Then she asked if we could go shopping, and I agreed, setting a budget of R$50. We wandered around the Rio Sul shopping center, and sadly there didn't seem to be much worth buying at that price. She finally settled on a blouse and pair of pants that totalled R$80. I decided that was OK and paid.

The taxi driver, who I'd treated to lunch (a shade under R$12 for him), wound up charging me R$60 for Christo plus R$40 for shopping. I think the Cristo charge was fair, but I'm not so sure about the shopping charge. Fabina seemed quite upset that it was as high as it was.

So I got Fabina up in the room, and it seems that it doesn't pay to pamper garotas; she called her mother, and said she had to leave right away without even a farewell fucky/sucky. And then she asked for R$100 for taxi fare! What a nerve she has. I said that was absurd, but in the end I wound up paying. So an entirely sex-free day (except the one romp in the morning) wound up costing me R$180 to her, plus the taxi charge and restaurant bill. Fabina told me she'd be back at 11:00, and so we'll see if she delivers well enough to make up for that very bad behaviour.

Late in the afternoon, I was out on my way back from dinner when I wound up near "the office" and noticed the gang of hombres sitting around. I told them I already had a 525 line trip report. Don said that he's been called every name in the book; I guess he was assuming I would bad-mouth him in some way. Or was he trying to pre-empt any bad-mouthing that might emerge? Either way, I was amused.

Everyone was discussing apartments; the general theme was that they would be a wise investment in the upcoming years, and hombres should buy blocks of them so they can control the associations thereof. Seems to me this is something that might be coordinated through ClubHombre and other web sites.

I asked about single family homes with ocean views, which apparently exist, but of course not near the city centre. I'd love to see real estate listings, but apparently there is no MLS and everything is very chaotic. I was informed that large and elegant single-family homes with ocean views might go in the R$500,000-R$700,000 range (US$177,300-US$248,226). The equivalent homes in Malibu with similar views go for beween US$800,000 and US$5,000,000, so you can see the Rio real estate market has, at least on paper, quite a ways to go. (I'd like to investigate this further; perhaps some of you could share your favourite Rio real estate sites with me).

Later on, on my way back from Citibank to grab some money, I was near "the office" (this is unavoidable since it's so close to Hotel Drebet). I noticed Sandman, Don and the gang were still talking, clearly plotting their new real estate empire. Or something.

Of course Fabina didn't show up at 11:00. Sorry, but not surpreised, I decided to make lemonade out of lemons and check out Help if she didn't show up by 11:45 when the admission charge at Help was still at R$15 instead of R$25.

11:45 came, and no Fabina, so I showered and visited Help.

Help is fun ... and frustrating. It's clear that there is some kind of social hierarchy at work there. Garotas below "your standard" will approach you, while garotas above "your standard" won't even look at you. Of course, like most men, I was keen on the "above standard" girls, but they pretty much blew me off, just like at a real disco.

One definite problem is that the number of real stunning beauties is low. I'd say about 5% or less of the girls were smoking hot, and they had the luxury of picking out the customers who might be allowed to see them. How do you become one of those guys? I'd say learning more than a couple of words of Portuguese would be a nice start :-).

I'd like to hear more about Help since I'm sure there is an art to picking up the garotas. I know part of it is to go to the disco as late as you can stand; unfortunately, my steadily accumulating lack of sleep made this a little tough.

One goal of my trip was to try and find the legendary Tiana, of Help and Monte Carlo, whose adventures are chronicled in various Club Hombre reports. I thought I saw her in the mist, but I think I encountered a younger, prettier version. Alas, this particular Taina, if indeed it was she, had a queenly aura about her, and didn't give me a second glance.

A few girls will try to pick you, and oddly enough the attractiveness of the women didn't seem like that reliable a guide to whether they would or not. But race definitely played a factor; 100% of the girls who hit on me were black. And this gave me a dilemma, since I usually want to pick the girls who hit on me, but I'd noticed that I seemed to do more blacks than any other racial group, and I wanted to at least try a lighter-skinned garota for a change. Unfortunately, virtually all the lighter-skinned garotas were ignoring me, so as the night wore on I started lowering my standards.

In the end, I succumbed to the charms of a strikingly tall black woman, whose stunning dress really showed up her assets. Unfortunately, she didn't look nearly as good in the unforgiving glare of the lights of my room. She was doing very well at trying to please when ...

Fabaina called. I thought at first it was the woman's friend, so I gave the phone to her, with the result Fabina knew I had a girl in the room. Oops. Not the soundest of moves. Now I know why the Drebet has a policy against having more than one girl up in a room!

To make a long story short, eventually I managed to eject the first girl, got Fabina back into the room and (apparently) forgiving me, fucked her silly and then drifted off to a contented sleep ... at 4am.

Of course on the next morning it was almost impossible to get any kind of rise out of my hapless organ. A pity since this was the end of the trip. I finally tried part of a Viagra that was donated to me. It didn't seem to make a lot of difference, I think due to my extraordinarily high level of fatigue, but it did eventually enable me to perform.

Fabina was looking pretty good at this point, even helping me pack my bags and handle my clothes, both tasks I am not particularly good at. But then I handed her R$250 for the night, as agreed, and she started asking for R$100 in cab fare and some undefined additional amount for additional things I didn't even understand at the time. I extracted myself from her - not easy since I'd promised her lunch -and spent the remaining two hours between checkout time (I'd purchased a late checkout for R$105, which I recommend) and my trip to the airport at 7:15 for the 10:00 flight.

To be honest, Fabina's behaviour made me a little blue. It was a pretty downbeat ending for a trip that had certainly been pretty mixed. I'd done some great girls, and some OK ones, and I almost did someone I would have really loved to know better. But my exhaustion during the trip due to lack of sleep definitely took its toll and made the experience less than it should have been.

I think I can help you out on the whereabouts of Taina the Amazon that week.....

No wonder you ran out of money if everybody you came in contact with was trying to extort money from you. Tell them to kiss your ass and go to hell next time. Eat shit translates in any language.

(Message edited by aldaron on July 31, 2003)

Davidd,

I don't want to sound harsh or anything, but damn, you appear to have fallen for every low-level scam there is in Copacabana. Better luck next time dude - do some more homework before you go to Rio again, you got taken big time this first time out.

Davidd,
Hombrecito1 wrote a great article called "Latina 101". It is under Off-Topics, then Relationships.
Read it.
CG

If KidCisco reads this Trip Report, be prepared to be fired on. You made a lot of classic mistakes. Better luck next time.

Davidd,

Good reporting,

I'm glad you have experienced Rio.
Remember, this is Brazil a third world country where the average salary is $R300 a month. I know $R700 is nothing to you or any of us on this board, but we must stick to the rules and pay whats appropriate. I nailed taiza at 4x4 with photos for an hour (paid for 40min and she wouldn't pick up the phone while I was nailing).
Guys like yourself, must put an end to spoiling these garota's.
Sorry to hear about your trip to Rio sul. With my attitude, I would have told her, meals are on me and dont expect nothing else. If you dont like it, I'll walk around the corner and pick up a spinner within 10 minutes and be back to introduce you. It's a 50/50 but you have the Real's and make the calls.
If everyone paid between $R100-$R200 in Rio, the world would be a better place.


CN

Just be prepared when KidCisco reads this David....

Wow, and I don't want to be harsh (so I'll just let KidCisco do it), but you realy threw you money around - I'm just cringing! Taxis of R$100 (your Rio Sul trip and for Fabiana - twice!) that are more like R$10-20... buying clothes at 150% of your 'budget/plan' without a return on investment...

OK, but I wanted to post something positive, so I'll reply to your HELP question. Gentlemen - Help is not a pure monger place, it adds in many aspects (sorry, some aspects) of a non-monger place, aspects of a normal disco.... that some girls are picky, some not so 'in need' of a pick up, and thus are difficult to close. In summary, you need to have some game (as in non-pro game) to close the hotties at Help. I'm not saying I have game or I close them, but that's my take...

...that if you're into the hobby as a _total_substitute_ from non-pro play, vs. being into the hobby as a compliment to non-pro play, you may not like Help, especially if you are unlucky enough to randomly be there on a night when so many girls are being picky or the selection is slight.

This shows you that while Rio is a terrific (the best?) hobby destination, it is not for the inexperienced traveler or hobbyist. While Rio still has some honest people and GFE girls like less-traveled destinations, the prevalance and skill of the scammers there is reflective of Rio having been a huge tourist mecca for 30 years+.

Davidd, i think your first mistake was not to use a guide full time. Paying Don for that one night was a good gesture, but, in my experience, Don would never let all this shit happen to you if you were one of his full time guys. And, while even he can't control girls, they generally know not to pull shit on guys he introduces to them.

Your second mistake was spending more time at Meia Pataca and the lido bars (Franks, et. al.), which are fertile ground for scammers. Even vets get scammed there on occasion. On the other hand, termas are far more predictable, consistent and honest. The sessions vary in quality, but you rarely get blatantly ripped off (even Centaurus is up front about their unfair, b/s tourist charges).

The third mistake you made was trying to do this on a shoestring. Rio can get expensive and nothing kills a vacation more than running out of money. Anyone considering Rio and the higher quality girls (e.g., not VM or massage places, but nice termas and Help) should plan on at least $150US (450R) a day for a few sessions. Better to find a less expensive destination if you can't do Rio right.

Just my opinion...I could be wrong.

I did not even know that Help girl prices do not include the taxi. You are lucky they don't ask you for airfare also. Luckily, R$ 100 is enough for a taxi to the airport and the cheapest flight to São Paulo for around R$ 80.

R$ 100 for taxi. That sure gets you very far. It is even possible that she pays that much (I once had a girl charge R$ 80 on Sunday (bandeira 2) to come from São Gonçalo. But the guy wanted her in 40 minutes, not in 3 hours and was willing to pay that extra price)

But any normal decent non Help whore takes a darn bus for R$ 5, if she lives that far away.

This is one reason I don't go to Help. These girls are totally spoiled. Wasting money like it is sand. Because the find suckers who overpay.

The only worse thing is if you are in Cafe Photo in São Paulo and the girls comes in the BMW she bought from our money!

I like "normal" girls who come with the bus. At least when it is daytime.

A place like Help would be a good idea, if it had not gone wrong. A place where you can see girls, talk to them, choose is great. Most of the girls I meet are by introductions, one at a time, who come to my place.


The problems of Help are

1) "Help is fun ... and frustrating. It's clear that there is some kind of social hierarchy at work there. Garotas below "your standard" will approach you, while garotas above "your standard" won't even look at you. Of course, like most men, I was keen on the "above standard" girls, but they pretty much blew me off, just like at a real disco. "

Sorry, I do not go to a whoring place to be blown off by some semi-illiterate elementary school dropout! Then I'd rather go to a regular disco!! If I pay, I don't want second class, I want the best!

2) You guys overpay. I don't want to pay a month's wage for a few hours. I had cute girls recently, who told me about her wage. One was receptionist in a luxury gym in Copacabana. Salary 290 R$. Another one was cashier in a store in Copacabana. Salary R$ 260 per month, minus all money that was missing in the cash register.


"The third mistake you made was trying to do this on a shoestring. Rio can get expensive and nothing kills a vacation more than running out of money. Anyone considering Rio and the higher quality girls (e.g., not VM or massage places, but nice termas and Help) should plan on at least $150US (450R) a day for a few sessions. Better to find a less expensive destination if you can't do Rio right. "

Rio can be done much cheaper, with high quality. But it is difficult, I have trouble finding the quality girls outside of agencies, termas, etc. So I kind of understand your problems.

I just talked to a girl from a R$ 30 massage parlor. She came to visit me, and all her colleages were off to Help. Same R$ 30 girl during daytime, at night she suddenly is worth R$ 250!!


I even know a few girls that I met at the beginning of their career, a year ago. Through private discrete madams, through other girls, agencies, etc. Now they are hardened, at Help, stuck up, thinking their pussy is worth gold. They are more hardened, their price has gone up. You guys can keep them, I am hunting for fresher, humbler material.


I wish Help was more unspoiled. I wish Help had more humble girls. I wish there was an easy way how foreigners can find good girls with fine attitude for decent amounts of money.

Most of the girls I go with would never dare to be seen at Help. They are afraid of the hardcore girls at Help defending the customers they think are their property. They don't want to be in a well known whorehouse, where they are seen by hundreds of guys.

Sorry for my ramblings ......

Getting ripped off sucks, but you do not need a lot of money to have a mindblowing time in Rio. I know people who do Rio on ridiculously small amounts of money and party their asses off. (Not to mention the majority of Cariocas) Go to the youth hostel in Copacabana if you are young and poor and you will have an awesome time for free. Of course, Lapa will probably be your destination seemingly every night, but you will meet people who know the city super well and take you to shit you would never do otherwise. It kind of sucks that the natural fraternity of travelers is tainted with people charging to show you around. I sense a growing pressure to pay to whoever runs the office at Alcazar. Let's not start treating each other like hookers treat us.

(This is not an indictment of any guides nor am I saying they shouldn't exist. I wish I was one. But instead of people recommending guides that you have to pay for, how about just finding another monger to hang around with and watch each others back. Make a friend.)

As well, you only learn from the mistakes you make yourself. I think the 'me' that arrived in Rio (having done some research and confident) is a retard who probably almost got killed but was too dumb to even realize it.

It reminds me of buying fake polo shirts for school in Thailand. First week, thought we really bargained him down with our economies of scale (3 shirts) to 400 baht each. By the end of my year, I was buying the same thing for 40 or 60 or some ridiculously low number. And the funniest thing is that I was still getting ripped off.

But, seriously, I can't wait for KidCisco to make fun of this guy in his 'almost literate and hilarious' style.

Yo.

I have to disagree with the need for a guide, and the need for a large budget (us$150/day, given your guidelines). NO OFFENSE MEANT TO POSTER OR GUIDE FRIENDS.

IMO, if you do your homework and are a travel savy person, even if it's your first trip to Rio... Rios is an easy destination for the newby to master. A place like Columbia is more difficult, but Rio has well-known Termas, and easy street/beach scene, and the most famous disco in the hemisphere.

If anyone needed a guide, it was DavidD.

There is plenty of information on this site for you to know Rio like the back of your hand. However, if you are going down there by yourself for the first time, you shouldn't depend on running into other mongers along the way to help you get by.

I met DavidD while I was there, and I know he is a smart guy... outside of Rio. However, it appears he stuck his head up his ass when he got off the plane. He made mistakes he should have never made being a member of this website. I know he will have a better time next time though. He's a good guy, but he just made some bad decisions.



(Message edited by aldaron on August 01, 2003)

My view on guides - if you're a newbie, even with a membership here and you've read everything on CH about Rio, it still may make sense to hire Don or another guide simply as an insurance policy. A little taxi service, good apartment hookup, cell phone use - I can take care of this stuff myself, but not everybody wants the hassle. Personally, I think Don does a good job and is most likely worth whatever he charges.

I would never use his or any other guides service because I've been around the block so many times in so many places the shit all runs together sometime. And, as far as latching onto other Hombres or mongers down there, that's great if you pick a popular weekend but what if you pick a quiet period when nobody is really around?

I know Seaman and he gives good advice. The only thing I disagree with him is the need to hire a guide however, it might have been helpful. You seem like a smart guy yet you allowed yourself to get scammed over and over. I think people in Rio can smell guys that are able to get scammed. I've never gotten scammed in Rio or anywhere else in South America I've been to.

Remember, you can only get scammed if you let yourself get scammed. I know some of you that buy girls presents (clothes, chocolates, etc.). That is all fine and dandy. I'm no stranger to being generous to girls. The key thing is to not automatically expect anything in return. If it makes you feel good to give them money, gifts, whatever then do it. Just don't automatically expect anything in return.

Good luck.

WHERE, OH WHERE, IS KIDCISCO WHEN YOU NEED HIM?!

I have been logging in every few hours just hoping to get a belly-shaking laugh out of what has to be an imminent Kidcisco rampage.
Maybe we can beam a clubhombre Batsignal into the clouds, and beckon our hero to set things right.

No offense taken, FLHobbiest...travel savvy and reasonably adventurous guys (me included) can do Rio without too much harm and without a huge budget. But, take away the savvy, and you see what happens (read above). A flexible schedule and budget help too as mistakes tend to be time consuming and expensive!

This is the same deal as real packaged tours. Some people don't have alot of time for fuckups, don't like to take risks, don't mind being a little less connected to the culture (e.g., language), and have the money to get the executive treatment - those people should use guides. Some guys love adventure, like to take risks, don't mind the fuckups and have time - those people don't need guides.

Some people don't need guides. Re-read this disaster of a report. Davidd needed a guide.

(Message edited by aldaron on August 01, 2003)

I think calling DavidD's report a disaster is a bit harsh. If we start labeling reports like that we will end up getting fewer reports from newbies.

But DavidD, DUDE! I thought you had made all of the raw rookie mistakes on your trip to Cuba.
You really ought to print-out Hombrecito's "Latina 101" and hang it above your computer. Don't just read it, memorize it.

In the future I also suggest that you garner some type of language fluency and/or taravel with someone who speaks the language. By dealing with garotas or chicas who speak English you unfortunately limit your contacts to the more hardcore and the kind who will use all of the tricks and wiles that you apparently resent but have poor coping skills with.

Enjoy the Life, Pogo

How about "disaster of a trip"? I haven't read his Cuba report though.

David is a good guy. He will learn one day.

(Message edited by aldaron on August 01, 2003)

This trip was contaminated with the results of Murphy's Law from the beginning, with the most important problems having to do with my having a huge rush of responsibilities in the couple of weeks leading up to the trip. These took time away from both my planned language learning - I wound up learning next to no Portuguese - and re-scanning of reports. So I walked in without nearly the knowledge I should have had, and I'd say that caused most of my significant problems.

I re-read Latinas 101 (per a suggestion someone was kind enough to make after reading my Day 2), and it definitely would have helped to have had done so shortly before my trip. I will be sure to do this right before my next one.

I'm less sure about the suggestions that I should have hired a full-time guide like Don. I enjoyed being around Don, but I can't help but notice that I had some fiascoes on his watch, and about the same number on my own. I think the real bottom line is that there is no substitute for experience and proper research.

If I were to take the same trip tomorrow, with the same knowledge of Portuguese I had then (namely none), I would confine my activity almost excusively to the termas. This was advice I read before the trip and chose to ignore, because I couldn't resist having a nice warm body in my bed at night. And I did love the warm body experience, but when I did some calculations at the end of my trip, it was actually more expensive and less satisfying than the terma sessions I had.

So as usually seems to happen on these trips, I think I can say I'm bloodied but unbowed. I will say that although I did get scammed on this trip, I got considerably less scammed than I did in Cuba. I am learning, just not as quickly as many of you might wish :-).

I hope you folks at least find my reports entertaining, and useful for some of the newer folks who haven't experienced these things first hand.

D

Davidd... I too read Latinas 101 a little while ago, and it was very enlightening for me also.

Being a full time client of Don's would have helped you have a better time. As I remember, your first bar tab at Frank's was around 400R, and he got it knocked down in half. You can't blame Don for the girls in the dupla playing you though. You were wise not to show up for Taiza though a couple of days later.

Don't worry about making mistakes. I made some too. The guys on the board (including me) are just giving you a little bit of shit, but it is all in fun. That is part of what makes this website so great. You get to learn from, and share in each other's mistakes.

Follow Latinas 101 next time and I'm sure you will be fine.

That's all well and good....but when KidCisco reads your report......All hell is gonna break loose!! Take it like a Man.

sbronx77: so what?

KidCisco, KidCisco, oh where is KidCisco. At what point did KC become the "inhouse" hatchet man. I guess I shouldn't have stopped reading his posts. When I last saw any of his stuff he was trying hard to educate people but was being ignored or dumped on by others. And now he is the guy with the chain saw to deal with newbie posters. Either his ideas have now become accepted or else he took out the posters who used to put him down.

Rudy: What so?

Davidd...this past trip was a learning experience. On my first Rio trip, I hit the termas everyday and it was great. IMHO if you stick with your original terma game plan there will be more fun to be had at a lesser price. With all the valuable feedback your fellow hombres have shared with you, there's no doubt you've got the point. No sense beating a dead horse.

Sbronx77:

Please excuse my late night rudeness, that really shouldn't have been directed at you.

Tightfit more eloquently stated what i was trying to express.

Apologies,

R.

DavidD, wars are not won on the battlefield but in the planning room. Lesson number one through ten.
If you got nailed on your first trip to Cuba, and you didn't rectify your planning deficiencies the second go round, you were basically fucked the minute you got on the plan to start your second trip.

Where do you monger on a regular basis? I'm not that familiar with you so all I know is the one trip to Cuba (disaster) and this trip to Rio (partial disaster). I believe you live in California, so have you spent much time in TJ?

My analysis of your two trips is that you need to learn the basics. Going to Cuba and Rio are for experienced vets, although occasionally a newbie like Aldaron can hit a bullseye the first time out and not have any problems. A rare occurance.

You should hit some more forgiving spots for a while, figure out how to spot the grift and how to act and react to it. It sounds a little weird to say that you have to learn how to go whoring but you really do. If not, you will be (as you have been in Cuba and Brasil) identified as a mark as soon as you hit the ground and you will spend three times the money for one-third of the experience. If you're lucky. If you're unlucky, you end up face down in a ditch somewhere, or sitting in a jail cell, or sitting in the lobby of the US embassy or consulate trying to get a new passport so you can get back home after being rolled and cleaned out.

Finally, if you have any trips coming up in the next few months, like maybe Thailand or the PI or something, start planning today.

Rudy: KidCisco has a way of saying things. I just respect the way he tells it like it is. All may not agree with him, but he has a way of expressing his opinions. DavidD made some classic mistakes that KidCisco will "speak on". It can be rough to those who can't stand the truth. I, for one has followed his advice, and learned a lot. I always look forward to seeing KidCisco's posts.

I fall in line with the Kitesurfer, FLHobbiest, Viajero take on guides, but if you do want a guide, Don is the best one that I've heard about and I can vouch he's a cool guy, at least he was cool to me. But if you aren't specifically looking to meet up with certain guys in the Don group, you have all you need on this site.

I could see myself potentially using Don in the future, but the only reason would be to have him fill me in on some of the less popular places. The termas, beach, and lido scene are too easy.

I'm leaning along the lines of Viajero's suggestion that something about DavidD screams "TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME". Maybe your expressions? Maybe wide-eyed looks of confusion? The Rio you are describing sounds somewhat different than the one I visited.

"Going to Cuba and Rio are for experienced vets"

Cuba yes, Rio no-way. DavidD overpaid, but otherwise it doesn't seem like a disaster of a trip to me. It appears he recognizes and takes responsibility for overpaying. Stick to termas and metered taxis and Rio is cake.

DavidD, in a sense I think this is one of the more helpful reports. Mistakes are most often made from carelessness, not necessarily from the difference of being a newbie or vet.

My biggest mistake was made while I was a vet in Tijuana. The result was being naked in a bed at 7am in the morning with a gun pointed at me and having all my stuff stolen. Several years and hundreds of girls made me complacent about the fact that I was in a foreign country with a girl I really didn't know all that well.

Most of the Brazil reports are wild success stories, so it may give the mistaken impression that one does not need to plan ahead and pay attention. Your report is a reminder that such is not the case and I'm sure will help many people have a better time in Rio.

The problem with Kidcisco has nothing to do with his opinion or "the truth", but rather his way of telling it.

I for one do not need to be constantly reminded that he's a 6'1, 235lb, wealthy, good-looking, well-endowed PT Barnum circus seal that can balance a beach ball on his nose.

Add in poor grammer, constant repeating of crude phrases, capitilization of every fifth word, recent fondness for pretty little icons, and perpetual statements that it's what he says and not the way he says it that people have problems with, and you see my point of view.

If Kidcisco stuck to just "telling it like it is" many could respect that and him, but as it is, lots of people just ignore his posts or look at them like a car wreck.

I ain't gonna dog KidCisco. Different strokes for different folks. And so on and so on......

I felt like I was in some kind of twilight zone until I saw d'Artagnan's messages. Like him, I don't think my trip was a disaster.

Did it hit the highs that I have heard in other reports? No. Did I leave the experience hating Brazil? No. What I saw in my trip was a flash of light, a promise of a better world if I prepared a bit better and acted a bit smarter next time.

I think a lot of the difference between my experience and that of others is that I beat my own path for most of the trip. And that Tazia so much resembled that girl I fell in love with, and she took full advantage of that fact. I'm going to be a lot less susceptable to that now that I know where it leads.

One thing I think many people don't realize is that this is only my third mongering trip. During the seven odd months between my first trip and this one, I have been to Cuba once, TJ once and Brazil once. During this same period, many of the more experienced here have been on at least a trip or two every month. So it seems like I am not growing and gaining experience at the same rate as them, but considering the frequency of my trips, it should not be that much of a surprise.

In my Cuba trip, I let touts and my one girl lead me by the nose. It was a great tour of Cuba and I learned a lot, but I largely missed the joys of the mongering scene, and managed to spend a lot more money than I needed to. In this trip, I was much less vunerable to touts and basic scams. My Latinas 101 still needs a lot of work, and my language skills are still hopeless -- but I think I grew during the trip.

Finally, perhaps being a naive, wide-eyed pseudo innocent is part of the fun. May I never lose the wonder I feel when going to a new strange place, and learning what I can from it. Maybe that cost me a lot of money this time -- but hey, it was what I budgeted, so that's not quite so horrible as it might look from the outside. I expected to make mistakes, and I expected to spend a lot. Well, I did.

If you don't go out into the world and do things, well, you never learn in the end. And perhaps that's my main defense; give me some credit for not being one of this board's thousands of lurkers, but for actually going out there and giving it my best shot.

And for caring enough about other newbies and this board to write a report which, after all, doesn't reflect all that well on me and my abilities.

If even one of them dodge the bullets I caught thanks to reading this report, it will have achieved its purpose.

D

DavidD:

I just wanted to thank you for being so frank in your report. People in general have a bias to try to look good, and sometimes this gets in the way of communicating real experiences. You are who you are and you had some fun and learned some lessons. There is nothing to be apologetic or defensive about.

David... it was good to have met you down there. I'm sorry that your trip didn't work out a little better though.

I haven't been on this site very long, but I am finding that there are many lurkers on here that never write reports, and only jump in to criticize or make fun of people. You made some mistakes your first trip (as did I) and you admitted to them. You deserve credit for that, and others should be able to learn from your experience. I know you will do better next time.

DavidD
I want to chime in here too and thank you for the honesty in your report. This board is about sharing information in an attempt to improve all of our mongering experiences. Like d'Artagnan I also get tired of some of the bragging and self promotion that goes on here. I have been mongering for a while and have friends that have been doing it for even longer. We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from those mistakes and should be willing to pass that information on to our fellow mongers.


d'Artagnan

Thanks for hitting the nail on the head. I really enjoyed what you had to say. Well done!!

I think the majority of the members here want others to do well and have a good time in Brasil. Yes, some people are critical and some can relate to similiar experiences. Some members, I believe, are excellent writers. And some members don't write too well. It doesn't mean they are lurkers and make fun of people. Everyone here is learning from each others experiences in Rio. The "ribbing" is to be expected, either here or "at the office" in Rio. If Davidd does not learn from his mistakes and reports the same mistakes, of course folks here are gonna get on his case. For some, Rio is easy. Then again Rio can be a very difficult place to monger for others. I believe, if one reads these Trip Reports are applies what's in them, [the good tips], one can have a BLAST in Rio!!!

I'd like to thank DavidD for writing his trip reports. I enjoy his writing quite a bit even if my hair get a rise now and then.
Sounds to me he had a good time but overpaid at times. Also he seems to like having a warm body in bed which is not the norm in Brasil.
My advice for Rio, first learn to speak some Portuguese so you can participate in garotas games. Second never be pussy whipped, if you think a garota is a must do hottie, do not show your cards, speak to her as if she were just another girl. As soon as a garota sees she has a spell on you, you're toast for pricing and quality of services. Third if you need tln, just befriend a garota at a terma and get her tel numbers. Most terma garotas can be available after their shift at 1:00 am. Also unless a garota licks your ass and takes in the butt, you're just another hombre. Even if she does, you're just a good safado hombre.

As far as guides, you gotta be a complete newbie imho to use one. I like to try new girls on the program. Rio is very safe as far as tourists are concerned. A newbie can stick to Copa and take metered taxis and be fine. There is also tons of info on this site.

With the information available on this site, you really don't need a guide to get around the city. However, I don't regret using Don. He took care of everything for me before I arrived, and he made sure I didn't make the kind of mistakes in this report.

For those guys thinking of going down there for the first time and don't speak Portuguese, send me an email and I will list all of the things he did for me that I didn't put in my report.

DavidD, remember this, a monger is great not because he avoids mistakes, but how he recovers from mistakes. I appreciate your candor and your report, and I picked up a few things for my next trip. Cheers.

"May I never lose the wonder I feel when going to a new strange place, and learning what I can from it."

Davidd, you've been a real class act here with your willingness to relate both the good and bad of your trips. What makes this group so great is that there will always be someone here to help you along.

I copied that line from your last post in the thread because it spoke to almost all of us. The day a visit to Rio or BKK or even TJ just becomes part of the grind on the way to get laid is when the thrill is truely gone.

Mongering is not just about sex and the time spent in bars and brothels. There is a much larger environment that includes restaurants, shopping, play activities, and interacting with the local population. This is where the real adventure lies with numerous opportunities to expand one's world.

You clearly enjoy these new and seemingly exotic locales. Sure, there is a learning curve to every place you visit but that's part of the fun. And if you miss a few spots here and there or take the wrong approach in some area you can always start over the next time or just head on to your next stop noting what worked or didn't work at the first one.

Davidd,

Listen to D'Art. He gives good, objective, clear and valuable information. I've never met the dude but I hope to one day on one of my adventures.

I agree with him. You sounded like you had a fun time and in the end.... that is the most important thing. We all make mistakes so don't feel bad about that. You will know how to navigate Rio better the next time you go. And I'm sure there will be a next time.

One thing to keep in mind is that whether you are in Rio, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or a host of other countries without a fixed pricing structure, there girls will try to get as much as possible. Most of them never expect to get their asking price but they will through it out there. Some super hotties will ask for that price and stick with it but those girls are few and far between. It's just like buying a new car. The ones that do their research and due diligence will end up spending a lot less than those that just accept the first price thrown out by the car salesman.

I'm glad you had fun and if Kid Cisco does chime in don't get too frazzled. I agree that sometimes he makes valid points but most of the time he does it in a way that offends people which is not good. Swearing, constant offensive language and poor grammar drives people away from his posts.

I for one appreciate your honest post. It is posts like yours that help others. Not every post has to be the same. Good luck in your future trips.

I enjoy reading the positive responses to DavidD. It shows that there are some members that want others to learn and have a better experience next time. Again,if one reads the Trip Reports, and applies the positive aspects of the reports, one can have a BLAST in Rio. DavidD experienced somewhat of a good time. It also could be said his experiences could have been worse. If he learns and improves, he wins. If he repeats the same mistakes, he loses. Both vets and newbies all make mistakes. We all try to learn from them!!!

Tight Fit - You're right about mongering not just being about sex, termas, etc. I've been on conventional vacations on six continents and done some crazy weird independent traveling, and the most fun part of all of them is getting to know the local culture and perspective, often through meaningful time with locals. I learned more about the plight of the burmese through an overnight hiking stop at a buddhist monastery than I ever would have from lonely planet.

I originally thought a "monger trip" had to be different. When visiting a friend in Thailand and hitting Patpong, I looked at the "sex tourists" with disdain, thinking they only came to the country to fuck young thai girls. The prevalence of schnitzel restaurants and televised german soccer matches didn't help either. Like those who frequent all-inclusive resorts, these guys showed no interest in anything thai OTHER than pussy.

It wasn't until my trips to Rio (and reading this board) that I realized that there's a sizeable portion of mongers that do get the real experience, perhaps even more so than the wanna-be cultural tourists with their Tevas and Lonely Planets. Not that Bwana and some of the other vets on this board aren't first class perverts (hehe), but its clear that hobbying is just a (valuable) part of the experience.

In fact, I'm starting to think hobbying itself helps the cultural side of this. Speaking some porutuguese on my last trip not only made the sex easier and better, but it also made the trip more enjoyable by helping me talk to the girls and others more. Funny, people look at monger tourists with disdain, but I'll take a culturally sensitive monger over an insentive, ugly-american packaged tourist any day.

I think this also answers the guide question. If you just wanna get laid, don't wanna put a lot of effort into it, don't care much about how things work, and have the money, then get a guide. Otherwise, if you really want to learn the country, culture, and make and time investment to do so, going independnet with its ups and downs is the way to go.

Sorry, something in my morning coffee made me a wussy today. I fully expect an ass kicking from KidCisco, et. al.

After reading all the comments here about Davidd's trip, I went back and re-read his five days of trip reports. While there evidently were some mistakes made, I was expecting much worse given the tone of some of the posts here. It is not as though he fell in love and got married to someone only interested in his money, the ultimate scam (which happens much too often, both in the mongering world and moreso in the "real" world). His mistakes were relatively minor and not of such magnitude as to ruin a trip.

While there are clearly lessons to be learned from his experience, all-in-all, I don't think his trip could be characterized as a disaster, maybe a learning experience with some good and bad thrown in.

I also am with Seaman on mixing with the culture. From a pure mongering standpoint, this may have more risks than hiring a guide and having him hold your hand as you go from terma to terma, but from my perspective the terma circuit (with or without a guide) can get old real fast if that is ALL you are doing on anything more than a few day trip. That is one of the reasons I like to go to other venues (as described in my recent trip report), not just to save money (by U.S. standards the termas are a bargain; by Rio standards they are very expensive). It is also one of the reason s I usually come home with between 500 and 1000 non-monger related photographs; there are some interesting places to see in the Rio area.
While KidCisco may chime in here with a different conclusion about Davidd and his trip, I hope that the criticism voiced here does not deter other newbies from posting their experiences, good and bad. After all, trip reports probably are most valuable to the newbie, and the newbie needs to know about common newbie mistakes.

Seaman,
Thanks for the compliment ("first-class pervert") but isn't that a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?

And I agree that there's so much to do and see when traveling beyond the mongering activities. Those that know me know that I schedule my days in Rio equally around mongering and other activities such as surfing with the locals, going to concerts, checking out good restaurants, and hanging with Brasilian friends I've made over the years. The cultural options are the main reason I avoid places like Pattaya, which is exclusively a monger spot, and prefer BKK, Phuket, and Chiang Mai, which are rich in cultural opportunities as well. Rio offers it all, as do most other haunts (with the possible exception of TJ).

Seaman, I particularly felt this when I was going to Cuba. In Cuba, you literally have to go "through the looking glass" to enjoy a mongering trip, because local girls are not allowed in local hotels. So you have to stay with a Cuban family at a Casa instead of a tourist hotel, and you'll probably bond with them to some extent. The experience of seeing the world through your host family's eyes, and through your girl's eyes, is something I will always treasure.

I felt that only mongers got to see the true Cuba, and they saw it exactly because mongering bends the rules.

My trip to Rio was much more of a pure mongering trip, in part because I didn't spend much time there, and in part because Rio is a more or less normal place. The secret police are not spying on you, as they do in Cuba; the restaurants are excellent and normal, as they are not in Cuba, and so on.

I think the bottom line is that Brazil is a better place to live in, but Cuba's a more interesting and strange place to visit.

Incidentally, would anyone be interested in seeing the movie I made during my Rio trip? It features a fully clothed (darn!) Fabiana and our visit to Cristo. It might be helpful for those of you who want to know what a visit to Cristo is without actually taking the time to go there :-).

D

Davidd:

Two things:

First - Thanks for a very thoughtful and honest report.
I found it very informative, which is one of the main reasons I take time to read reports - to learn the good and the bad;

Second - Who is this KidCisco, and why are some people waiting for his response with breathless anticipation when from all accounts here we already know what it will be?

Davidd, btw what was the extras Fabiana charged
you additional 20$

hey seaman..I dont remember us doing much in the culture dept in May...ok well getting lost downtown and walking past the art museum was enlightnening..

Davidd! Great honest report man. It sounds to me you were able to have a good time despite the negative things that happened to you. The way I look at it is that if you don't make any mistakes and you feel like you are in control 100% of the time, IT'S NO FUN! Rio is a fantastic place and it offers challenges for everybody no matter what "level" you are. I've spoken to guys who have been to Rio 30-35 times and they STILL get into situations that are new to them and requires some street smarts. My advise is to spend time outside Copa as often as you can to get a feel for the "real" Rio. Very often guys think of Copa as Rio. It couldn't be further from the truth. Copa is a place for business, that's it. Most of these girls are smarter than any woman you've ever met, and they will see how far they can stretch the limits. Don't be too nice, they will never respect you. Never be afraid to say NO. Treat everybody with respect, but don't be too nice. It's ok to say NO!
If you think you made many mistakes, don't worry. Thanks to the members here you have been guided in the right direction, and the next trip will make you feel more confident in your decision making. Imagine all the guys who go down to Rio who know NOTHING about the scene. They make mistakes WAY worse that yours. Trust me.. If it makes you feel better my friends and I spend our first day on the beach (copa) drinking, flirting and having a great time (thinking all the girls in Rio were VERY friendly..) only to discover the beach chair guy charged us $170! Yes gentlemen, that's US dollars. 3 sunbeds, drinks for us and some girlies and of course the obligatory rinsing of the feet after swimming.. Been there done that I say! I'm much smarter now (I hope) but I still keep on making mistakes. To me it's a part of the game and a part of my learning curve. I hope I never feel like I have control of Rio...

Keep the reports coming! It makes my days go by faster at least.

This has been a most interesting thread. Says a lot about peoples different perspectives.

Aldarons and DavidD's experiences as newbies could not have been farther apart on the compendium but both seemed have a good time.

Lot to be learned from both of them.

Sandman

Seaman hit the nail on the head. Definitely take time out to see all of Rio. It took 4 trips before I went to Sugar Loaf and hit all the other sites. Some of you know that I'm not that much fun anymore in Rio now that I've been with my novia for several months now. But to be honest, there is a lot more to Rio then just the girls. Yes, you heard that right. The city is beautiful and definitely go to a concert with your favorite garota, a nice restaurant, the Marina, downtown (yes, other than the termas), Santa Theresa in the electric cable car, etc.

I plan on traveling throughout Brazil in December/January and I'm looking forward to a little bit of everything. Good luck.

Davidd, I liked your report. I winced a few times when reading it -- I know what it's like to travel on a budget and worry about excess charges -- but shit, in the end, it's only money and when's the last time you got laid like that at home??? You gotta stop taking crap from cab-drivers and bill-padding waiters, though! THAT I won't stand for!

I thought I saw something about you planning to go to Angeles City? D'artagnan can compare the places better, but if you are on a budget and want a girl in your bed all night, dude, for 19 bucks plus MAYBE a SMALL tip in the morning (depending on your generosity and her attitude), you can get a hot young girl to pretend (???) she LOVES you and then get another one every night of the week. If the termas are the easiest places in the world to get laid, I wonder where the AC bars rank on that scale? Hopefully you'll get to try it for yourself.