We’ll get to Casanova later. I took the SkyTrain over to CP2 around 4 in the afternoon. Recent reports had CP2 declining drastically in both the talent and service department, but I had to give it a try anyways.

I was quoted some prices that were very different from what I remember though. I was quoted 1900 for either the soapy ladies or just the bath and fuck ladies. And the time was only for an hour and half instead of two hours. Is this now correct for CP2?

They had a large selection, but it was quite difficult to find an attractive lady there. I searched long and hard before finding a target. The papasan was a fat old man with an American flag tie on and he looked Chinese with his goatee and mustache.

I chose a 23 year old that I thought had a really pretty face and who was probably the best selection there. The slip and slide was phenomenal. It was magnificent. She did techniques on me that I’ve never had during a soapy. She performed great up and down sliding motion on both sides of me, great pussy and butt brush movement all over my body and on both sides (front and back). She was awesome. The bath was equally as nice. She dried me off completely from head to toe, walked me to the bed, laid down a towel for me, turned the television my way and handed me the remote while she cleaned herself up.

Photos: CP2 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143

The BBBJ started off kind of bad, but got progressively better. It later became more sloppy and wet and included some terrific ball licking. The DFK and overall session quality was quite good. We received a phone call that time was up while I was pounding her in doggie, but she allowed to continue going at it with her until I finished. She was a very sweet and nice lady. Good time.

On the way back from CP2 I stopped by both MBK and the Siam Center and Tower. MBK still blows me away with all the mobile phone equipment they sell on one of the top floors. I think almost any mobile phone ever made could be purchased there for a price. I looked for my recently purchased Motorola V-300 and they had it. They also had the Samsung E-715. I probably would never purchase a mobile phone there, but it was fun just to look.

I hit the Siam Tower next and was debating seeing a movie at the EGV Gold Class Theater. I saw “A Knight’s Tale” there in 2001 and liked the idea of having food brought to me and kicking back in a custom-made lounge chair with reclining high-back seats and ottomans. But I decided I didn’t want to waste my last remaining time in Thailand watching a movie.

So I headed to Nana Plaza instead. I hit Angel Witch first and was all ready to barfine a really hot chick from there. Things really went downhill quickly after I thought I had made my choice. She didn’t ask me how much I would give her, but her waitress friend sitting next to us did. The waitress also said that she would only do short time. Now I don’t really have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with it being dictated to me. The waitress said 2000 for short time and I said no way, I would give her 1500. The waitress then rattled off some Thai to the lady and the lady shook her head no. There was also something mentioned about having to wait unless the shows were over before I could take her.

As soon as I saw the head shake no I immediately grabbed my bill and paid it. Then in some other weirdness as I was leaving the bar, the lady who had just refused my offer of 1500 for short time stopped me at the door. It almost seemed like she was preventing me from leaving. She gave me a big hug, finally let go and then I walked out. I forget if she said something to me though.

As I was walking down to Rainbow 2 I was debating my decision, but decided that it probably would have been a horrible session anyway. If she was demanding 2000 for short time, she had probably been spoiled by someone else and wasn’t worth it anyway.

Rainbow 2 was hopping and there was one GORGEOUS lady there I immediately wanted to barfine. Unfortunately she was occupied the entire time I was there. I hit Hollywood on the bottom floor next. This place was completely dead. With the exception of one other punter, I had the place to myself.

I played around and flirted with two ladies there for a while, but decided to keep them in mind for later. They were super friendly and a lot of fun.

I hit G-Spot next and was very disappointed. Seemed like the place had gone way downhill from what I remember in 2001 and 2002. I then hit Mandarin looking for Bee, number 19.

As soon as I got in I asked for number 19 and a waitress informed me she was upstairs. There were four ladies dancing on stage upstairs and then two ladies in street clothes were drinking Chivas and Coke. I asked one of the ladies in street clothes where number 19 was and she replied, “I AM NUMBER 19! I barfine myself tonight because I don’t want to work.”

Fuck! That was two times now that I missed out on this chick. But here is the thing. Bee is very outgoing and so friendly. She could also be described as “bubbly.” I decided I would just kick back and drink for a while. I bought her a few drinks and before long she was giving me lap dances and grinding all over me.

Then she introduced me to her sister who was very quietly sitting on the other side of Bee. Oh my goodness! Oh my! Her sister was gorgeous. Was she a working lady or just hanging out with her sister? If Bee was not going to come back with me tonight, can I please take her sister? Please? She had the sweetest, most wholesome Thai girl next door look I have ever seen. But she was shy and quiet and didn’t speak much English.

What had me completely flabbergasted was what Bee’s sister did while I was grinding on Bee. When I stood up a couple of times to grind on Bee after she had just finished grinding on me or sitting in my lap, her sister would reach between my legs from behind me and start grabbing and massaging my dick. This happened several times in a row. Needless to say, I started grinding on Bee as much as possible. So now I really started wondering about Bee’s sister and I thought I had gotten myself into a quagmire.

Did Bee want to go with me now or was she just hanging out? Was Bee’s sister trying to work something in or was she just having some fun? I was intrigued and didn’t quite know what to do. After seeing Bee’s sister, I was totally in love and definitely wanted to take the sister instead of Bee. So what was I going to do?

Then OrionX called me. We last heard from OrionX on Day Seven of this report. That was when he was going after Princess, the waitress at New Makati in Hong Kong. He instead gave into his hormones and fucked a Wan Chai freelancer. But he was heading to Vietnam the following day to meet a lady from some Asian dating website. As it turned out, the lady in Vietnam was quite traditional. She would not even go up in his hotel room. Once he realized he wasn’t going to get any action there, he took off. He also didn’t think much of the sex scene there. He finally found and did one lady, but said the session was a little weird. His impression was that the lady felt guilty about receiving pleasure out of the session.

Anyway, he was in Thailand now and wanted to hookup. I told him where I was and he replied that he would be there shortly. Once he arrived I immediately pointed out Bee’s sister to him, stating that I was really in a predicament now since I had originally come for Bee instead and both Bee and her sister knew that. And Bee was really under no obligation to go with me since she had paid her own barfine this evening. It would really suck if I got left out in the cold and couldn’t fuck either of them.

But then all of a sudden Bee told me she was going to wish her other sister a happy birthday and that she would be back later. Hmmm. Ok. This gave me some time alone to talk to the sister because for some reason, they both didn’t leave.

The sister took a while to break. I found out her name was something that started with a T so I will just call her T. She was quite shy and it seemed like she felt guilty or bad by talking to me. OrionX just wanted to dance, drink and party and he was dancing with almost every lady upstairs. OrionX and I had the entire upstairs to ourselves.

After about an hour or so T tried to call Bee for me. Every time she called there was a message played that said, “Welcome to call back service.” So I guess Bee’s phone wasn’t on. It was so cute the way T would always say, “welcome call back service” in her Thai accent every time she tried to call Bee.

From what I could gather during our “getting to know you” conversation T use to work at Silver Dragon right next door. But currently she was either on a break, not working there anymore, or had the day off. I don’t know which it was though.

After a few more times of “welcome to call back service” I decided to ask T if she wanted to come with me instead. She was like, “No. You like Bee and Bee like you.” Then she kept rattling off and going on and on about “Bee this” and “Bee that” for like a half hour or so. I told her if Bee really liked me then why did she leave? Why wasn’t her phone on? Why wasn’t she answering? Why hadn’t she retuned yet? I told T that I liked her and wasn’t interested in Bee.

Then I asked the sister the all important questions. Do you like me? Do you want to go with me? She replied, “Yes I like, want to go but….” And then it was “Bee this” and “Bee that” all over again. T just couldn’t stop talking about Bee. Then I started getting “butterfly this” and “butterfly that” from her for about another half hour. If she weren’t so damn cute I would have given up two hours ago. But I just HAD to have this little hottie. I couldn’t give up yet.

I decided to try a different strategy and see if I could get her to leave to bar with me. Perhaps she wanted to go to Angels Disco? I asked her about that and she agreed, but she was STILL yapping about “Bee this” and “Bee that.” As OrionX, T, and I were heading out of Mandarin and past Silver Dragon, we were stopped by T’s friend Ice Cream from Silver Dragon.

T immediately starts working on trying to hookup Ice Cream with OrionX. OrionX really wasn’t that interested at the start. T told me Ice Cream (or as they pronounce it ‘Ice-a Cramee’) was 18 and when I told OrionX that he suddenly became a LOT more interested. We decided to head into Silver Dragon and I decided right there I would go ahead and barfine Ice Cream regardless of whether OrionX wanted her or not. I thought she was hot and could use her as a backup in case things fell through with T.

Inside at Silver Dragon we noticed Bee sitting with her Australian boyfriend. This was the same dude who I had seen Bee with previously at Mandarin. Once T noticed Bee with another dude, her attitude towards me changed completely. I didn’t hear anymore “Bee this” or “Bee that.” It seemed like once she noticed her sister had left me at Mandarin to meet another guy and lied about it; she wasn’t as concerned about hurting her sister by going with me.

Ice Cream and OrionX immediately hit it off and he wanted to show Ice Cream off to a lady at G-Spot who had quoted him 2000 firm earlier in the evening for short time. So we headed off to G-Spot to make that lady jealous.

After G-Spot the ladies want to head to Angel Witch to watch the shows, but by the time we get there they had already finished for the night. Then they said they want to head to Casanova. I never thought I would see the day that I stepped into that bar, but it did come. I think I am scarred for life. But at least I can now say I have been in and survived Casanova.

I know that I overcompensated waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much by grabbing onto T and holding her in my arms the entire time I was inside. Oh well. Some of the dudes there seemed to be post op and some just seemed to have their dicks taped up. It was pretty freaky watching dudes with long hair dancing a few feet away from me in bikinis. It was even freakier that some of them had hourglass shaped bodies.

We ended up closing Casanova down. It was past 2am but there were still customers in the place. Bee called T and T left the bar and went outside to speak with her on the phone. After about five or ten minutes I started thinking perhaps T ran off on me so I went outside looking for her. All the lights in the plaza were off and the bars were all emptying onto Soi 4. I found T around the corner as she was hanging up with Bee. OrionX and Ice Cream came out from Casanova and we were all about to retire to the hotel. T said she needed to give Bee something before we left. As we were walking down the stairs from the second floor, there was Bee standing alone and waiting for us. That was weird. Where did her boyfriend go? Bee gave me the most evil glance I had ever seen from a Thai lady. Oh well honey, it is your own fault. You ran out leaving me with your sister, remember?

Photos: T 144 145 146 147 148

They exchanged whatever it was they needed to exchange and T and I headed to the Dynasty. She took a short shower first and I quickly followed. She provided an above average BBBJ and I was quite satisfied with the session overall. I did get “jep, jep” a few times while I was doing her a doggie. I also remember hearing “jep” during a few previous sessions as well. I guess all those penis enlargement pills I am talking are finally paying off. LOL!

I never do this, but after the session I asked her how much she wanted. She replied with something like, “I no working. Up to you.” So I gave her 1500 and sent her on her way.

Small world. I have barfined T before but not at Silver Dragon....I remember it was at Nana though but not sure where. I also have been with your CP2 girl and she was really sweet...she was the first girl I hooked up with after breaking up with my ex... She was from my from my "Fast Break to Thailand report"

"Oh well, off to CP2....
My eyes were bloodshot from so much damn crying so I had to start drinking to forget about it and went looking for Thip at CP2. Mamasan told me that Thip was on vacation so I picked another girl who looked Filipina and was really hot. I needed a lot of gfe to get my girl out of my mind and thats what she gave me. Excellent session but I didn't plan on going to a massage parlor so I forgot my camera. "

Again, very beautiful girls....this is the best groups of girls I have seen photos from you ever and that is saying a lot because you have good taste...

Blazers,

Interesting. Guess I should rename this chapter to "Do some of Blazers' ladies."

I thought T was one of the most attractive, if not the most attractive Thai lady I have every done. Simply gorgeous. CP 2 lady was nice, too. It seems like we both had similar sessions with her.

Xen
Ya gotta love Thailand. Where else would you hook up with the sister of a BG and have her go with her to your room to screw your brains out and have her say " I no working, up to you " for payment ! That's what I love about Thai girls -- at least the ones I seem to hook up with . They really are not that much into money- more about fun and pleasure . Give them a good time and you can pay them whatever - they're happy with what you offer.

BTW -- T is indeed a very sexy beautiful Thai girl. She has a very familiar look but I am not going to tell you I barfined her.

Xen,

That's one hell of an evening!

Now my question to you is: what if T would have asked for 2,000, the amount you wouldn't give to the girl from Angel Witch?

And this isn't a knock - everyone has their style of mongering and prices that they're willing to pay, but the difference between 1,500 and 2,000 is $12.50. I know you have to draw the line somewhere, but I'm seeing contradictions here - On the previous night you kicked Juliette out of the room, even though she wanted long-time because you prefer short-time as you don't sleep well with someone else in the bed.

So now you see someone who is hot, and WANTS short-time, but you don't like being given only that option, even though it's the only option you want!

I'm just busting your balls a little bit, but it's just interesting how little things like $12 and saying short-time can totally alter an evening - even though this time it worked out well.

Wallstreet,

It has been my experience that ladies that only want short time up front and that quote 2000 are spoiled and will not really be worth the extra 500 baht paid and may, in fact, not even be worth the 1500 baht. That also seems to be the consensus on most of the Thai oriented boards as well.

I also didn't like the idea of a friend or intermediary talking between me and the lady. It wasn’t one individual thing that made me decide not to take her. It was the 2000 up front quote, the demand of short time, the fact I had to wait until after the show, and the use of an intermediary that made me decide not to take her. It was not one particular thing.

Regarding the difference between 1500 and 2000…

There seems to be a standard price structure in Thailand. Ever since my first trip I have understood this to be 1500 for ST and 2000 for LT. This seems to be universally accepted as the standard, fair, and going rates for Go-Go ladies in Bangkok at Nana and Cowboy. (This was also confirmed to me by the English manager of the Hollywood bars I met later in the trip.)

So let me offer you this oversimplified analogy.

Let's say that you frequent a Starbucks in New York. You are familiar with the prices and a have a general idea of what they should be across all the Starbucks. Every day you get a coffee, bagel, etc and it comes to right around $37.50 every time.

But now you walk into one particular Starbucks that thinks it is better than all the rest. They decided they want to charge you $50 instead of the standard $37.50. The difference is only $12.50, right? Do you just pay the extra amount because you can and it really doesn't matter to you, or do you walk across the street to one of the other 1000 Starbucks that are within a 1 mile radius?

I know we differ drastically on this. But I honestly do my best to keep the current price structure in place. It helps the expats living there making $750 a month as English teachers and it helps the others among us that aren’t as financially viable as some of the higher end hombres. $12.50 times 40 ladies (which is not unheard of for me on a trip) is $500. So if every lady only starting accepting 2000 for ST instead of 1500 no matter what, my trip expenses just went up by $500. (If I did 40 Go Go ladies.)

Let me give you another example. You go shopping at a bazaar to find a watch. You walk up to a counter and the price says $37.50. The clerk behind the counter sizes you up and says it is now $50.00. A similar watch with all the same basic features is at another counter for $37.50. Do you pay $50.00 because the difference is only $12.50 and that amount doesn’t matter to you even though you KNOW the watch should be $37.50? Or do you walk across to the other counter and pay the $37.50?

I am not at the top of the mongering food chain when it comes to finances. I'd like to continue to be able to go to Thailand and not be quoted higher prices just because "I can afford them." Just because you or I can, doesn't mean that we should. Just because you can afford to pay more for that coffee and bagel, doesn't mean you should.

This is especially true when it is outside of the norm of what is generally paid.

Now back to your question of what I would have done with T if she had asked for 2000. The answer is I probably would have given it to her, although very grudgingly. The major difference between that situation and the one with the Angel Witch lady was that I had already had a session with T and had a great evening of fun with her. Money came up very early in the conversation with Angel Witch lady and that is usually never a good sign.

I also could consider the extra 500 baht a tip for good service, rather than a straight fee. I also didn’t pay a barfine for T. She came with me by her own personal choice. It also would have been MY own fault (getting stuck paying 2000) for asking her how much and not just giving her the standard 1500 since no money was talked about at any time during the evening.

As for the LT, ST issue with Angel Witch. All I can say is what I said before. I am definitely a short time guy. Short time was not really the issue though. I probably would have kicked her out after short time anyway. It was all just part of the evaluation formula I used in my mind. I just didn’t like those terms being dictated to me. Perhaps there was a good reason why she didn’t want to do LT, perhaps she had things she needed to do in the morning. That is all fine, but dictating short time, demanding 2000 very early in the conversation, using a friend as an intermediary all equaled what I thought would be a bad session. So I passed and walked 100 feet to the next lady.

Now let me poke a hole in my argument. The analogies I provided above are merely used to illustrate a point – a point I know we will still disagree on at the end of the day. I told you before of the conflict that goes in my mind about this issue.

One cannot really compare the purchase of coffee or a watch to the purchase of someone else’s body for sex. However, the focus really shouldn’t be on the commodity traded, but rather the overall idea of paying more than the going rate for something just because they can. It is mostly perspective. And we come from two very opposite ends of the spectrum.

You come from the New York area, live and work in Manhattan and don’t like to haggle. Money is not really an issue for you and it is not worth it to you to spend any amount of time worrying about this issue. You are also a very generous person. You’ll find a good provider and stick with her for the entire trip.

I come from Tucson, Arizona. I live and work here. Money is a big issue for me. I don’t make a lot of it and I need to stretch it as far as it will go. I generally don’t like to haggle, but will do so if needed depending on my mood. I try to evaluate potential performance based on interaction in the bar or elsewhere because every session is valuable to me. I also like to session as much as possible and don’t like to repeat. So I like to get the most out of each unique session.

So given these two extremes, it is natural that we have the different viewpoints that we do. The only thing I ask you to consider when evaluating my argument is how your style affects mine and others in a similar position. If your style becomes the norm instead of mine, I fear that I will eventually become squeezed out completely and unable to partake in the wonders of sex travel. Certainly that is a “sky is falling” argument, but a scenario that is entirely possible. Service quality will down, prices will go up and none of us will benefit.

I would also argue that my style does not affect yours the same way yours affects mine. You could easily pay going rates, get the same level or service and help to maintain the status quo in the mean time.

I always thought Blazers was over-exaggerating the whole “Japanese tour bus” issue when he said that the Japanese were ruining Nana Plaza. 5000 ST was the norm for them and they paid it because they could. When they all leave all the ladies think they can get that from the average punter. They can’t. Their attitude sours and they start trying to squeeze punters for all they can. This is not good for the hobby. The English manager of the Hollywood bars upstairs told me virtually the exact same thing and that is why I think it is important to stick to the generally accepted prices.

That was way too long winded. I am going to shut up now. I certainly hope this post does not offend you as that is not its intention. It is merely a rebuttal to the points you brought up and it got kind of long as I started analyzing my response more.

Blazers was not exaggerating about the Japanese influence on Nana. I complained about the same thing on my last trip there back at the end of 2002. When I first started visiting the gogos of Nana in 1998 (the golden age: all nude, all the time), the Japanese guys were few and far between. By November/December of 2002, they had literally taken over several bars in Nana, and the prices the girls in those bars were asking for had gone through the roof. 3 or 4000 baht for short time?

However, they're not all doing it because they're loaded (though many of them are). They're doing it because the Japanese, as much as I love 'em, are clueless about the art of haggling. Bargaining basically doesn't exist in Japan. You always pay what is asked for, or you don't buy. They don't even think about counter-offers. And yes, this little cultural attribute has ruined much of Nana, much to my chagrin, as I am firmly in the Xen camp of mongering. I have to watch my expenses and stretch the dollar as well.

Mura
Actually I have come to believe the girls are smart enough to know there is a definite difference between what a Farang pays and what a Yippoon would. My problem with the second Pearl Harbor attack is that the girls, if given a choice, are likely to choose 4-5,000 baht for 3 minutes of playing dead, vs 1,500 baht for 2 hours of pounding . Seems to be an easy choice if you take the BG's perspective. Once you get them to acept barfine I think they expect no bigger tip than before. Except for a few total idiots at AngelWitch who think their shit don't stink.

My other pet peeve is getting stuck sitting at a table between 2 groups of chain smoking fools who sip one beer for an hour and act like they are Buddha's gift to women !

Xen,

In addition to being a very nice guy and fun to hang around with, you are a very accomplished hobbyist with scores of conquests spread over numerous continents.

With that said, I respectfully disagree with you on several points.

Could it be that the waitress was being used as an intermediary because the waitress spoke good English and your prospect did not? And because your prospect didn't speak English, she was using this opportunity to make sure that the terms were understood?

I was so happy to be able to avoid Nana Plaza on my last trip - no encounters with drunken Australians or English Hooligans who probably don't treat their barfines the way you and I do. Tipping in not in the European culture - there are many restaurants in New York that will add the tip to a check when the party is English or Irish or French or German because they have a reputation for "playing dumb" when it comes time to tip, which is how a restaurants’ waitstaff makes a living - just like the girl in go-go bars. Maybe she’s gotten stiffed in the past and was trying to ensure that wasn’t going to happen.

I could be way off base here, but I'm going with my instincts. The fact that she hugged you when you wanted to leave - I'm interpreting that as she wanted no hard feelings or to show you that she really wanted to be with you. Of course, you were there, and had a different feeling.

Remember the first cab driver who picked us up going to Bangkok Cozy? He didn't want to go there because of the traffic - you were sure it was because he wasn't going to get a commission. And then we sat in monumental traffic both ways - the guy would have never gotten his cab back to the garage in time. So things aren't always as sinister as they seem.

You make a very valid argument that when multiplying 500 baht times 40 ladies, you're talking $500. That's real money. When you look at it that way, you make a very good point. I don't do 40 women in a trip so my thinking is different.

But I will disagree on two points with paying 1,500 vs. 2,000. I think 2,000 is in the same ballpark as 1,500 - for some the difference is a dealbreaker (both the girl and the punter) but in my opinion it isn't "overpaying". The Japanese paying 3,000, 4,000 or 5,000 - THAT'S OVERPAYING. [Khun Mor - that's one of the lines of the year: second Pearl Harbor attack!!!]

And I'll agree with KM: these girls are sharp enough to know that the Japanese overpay and don't require much action in bed, so why not cater to them?

And while I feel that maintaining local price structure is a very valid concern, you made a point that I've never heard on this board: we need to maintain local price structure so the English teacher ex-pats making $750 a month can afford sex too. Novel argument, but I think it's flawed.

Guys living in Bangkok shouldn't be going to Nana Plaza, which is a tourist joint. They should know about places that are better and cheaper and only known to them, just like I know about places in New York (or Brooklyn or Queens) that the average tourist from Iowa will never see.

Also, if I'm to follow that argument, should I not bathe, dress poorly and behave ill-mannered towards the girls? This way, I'm not shining above anyone else and everyone has an equal shot at getting the hottest girls at the best price?

What about the guys who learn how to speak Thai? How unfair! More girls are going to feel comfortable with a guy who speaks Thai. How unfair to the rest of us who don't!

Xen, I'm exaggerating a bit, but my point is, when I'm on vacation I'll do whatever needs to be done to ensure I have a great time. And so far it's worked. Hopefully that doesn't affect another person's ability to have a great time too. And I don’t think that it does.

Let’s go back to the Japanese: they HAVE altered the scene in Bangkok to the point that some places cater ONLY to them. Yet that hasn’t stopped me from having a great time EVERY time I’ve been to Bangkok (5 times now).

And I don’t think it’s stopped you from having an awesome time too!

1. I have countered the second Pearl Harbor attack by divebombing right over to Pattaya....doesn't have the restaurants and shopping of Bangkok but there are more girls, prettier girls and endless possibilities. It's also cheaper and the Japanese stick to one bar...Superbaby.

2. Xen, you must be making more money now because now you are making 4-6 trips a year instead of 2 like you did before and I do notice that you stick to a budget but also like getting multiple sessions from Soapie girls who charge a lot more than bar girls if you look at the time you spend with them. I see many days that you are spending about 300 dollars a day if you include all expenses and that's a lot. I would say that you and Wall Street spend about the same amount of money cause WS likes LT and you like ST. I do appreciate you trying to keep the market as it is and not fuck it up...it does make a difference.

3. I still can't stop drooling over the girls you picked on this trip.

Very interesting discussion. This whole debate about the pricing structure has been on-going for some time now. There is one thought I have though.

There is a big difference between some nitwit paying 3-4K for a go-go gal vs. someone paying 2000 instead of 1500. The latter is within the realm of reasonable and the former is outright idiocy. I doubt any of us have paid the idiot price, but I'm sure many of us will admit to have paid 2k for a hottie in Nana.

During my last few trips to NANA, I couldn't find a hottie who would go for less than 2000 ST, although some 6s and 7s were willing to go at it for that. About a year ago, 1500 was the top price. Like WS, I'm on vacation, I travelled 8K miles to get there, and I need to have a good time = I don't mind paying a little premium if the subliminal returns warrant it.

I look at the 1500-200 differential a little differently -- i.e. a natural, envitable process of price inflation due to currency conversation rate fluctuation, the passage of time and the additional mongers now going to NANA. This price inflation happens everyhere, TJ was $40 ST when I used to Monger there in the 90s and it's now $60, same with LOS, ten years ago, I would imagine it was 1K ST, and even before that, I'm sure it was less for ST. Costa Rica is now $100 for a super hottie and no bargaining, whereas you could have gotten away with paying $60-$80 a few years ago.

It's my belief that the perceived price inflation will continue, and it is more a function of ill-informed, inexperienced mongers than any one group of guys. NANA is inundated with the weekend, tourist punter or guys who couldn't care less about an informational website such as ours.

So even though those Japanese may pay 3K-4K, I seriously doubt any of the girls will have the temerity to demand that of us in the know.

As for the Japanese, most of these guys that venture to Thail/Phillipines are not the
uppity/wealthy types you'd imagine. Most of these guys are young, run-of-the-mill salarymen who want the best bang for the buck. You should check out some high end karaokes/saunas in the Japanese Patpong area, Macau or even Ratchada to see how and where the big bucks are spent. I'm sure their cultural aversion to confrontations has something to do with their perceived inability to negotiate.

In Summary, the moral of the story is for everyone to get out to Cambodia before the $5ST inflates to $6.00 soon. And if some nitwit is paying $6 ST now, then I'm going ballistic.

Well all I can say is that I didn't discuss money before the fact with any of the ladies I barfined. The one lady that talked about money up front at Angel Witch I didn't take.

I took two ladies from Carnival, two ladies from Hollywood and one from the Dollhouse. I paid a straight 1500 baht for short time with each one. None of them gave me any problems about the money.

I recently read stories about the ladies not being happy with this amount or demanding more up front. I just don't get what these guys are doing that is so different from me. In my three trips to Thailand I don't think I've EVER had a confrontation over money at the end of the evening when I went to pay them. And I've never had a problem with my MO of not discussing money and just giving them around 1500 ST, 2000 LT.

BTW,

In a chapter I am going to post today, I talk about the manager of the Hollywood Bars upstairs I met at Woodstock. He told me this year has been horrible for them because of the social order crackdown and not being able to show tits and ass.

There is a recent report on another board from Soi Cowboy that some ladies there are offering 500 baht short time so they can get their number of required barfines per month.

The wisdom seems to be that higher drink prices, no showing, the early closing and the ladies trying to squeeze their customers is taking a toll and there are fewer tourists now.

Xen
I could not agree more with your philosophy of not discussing money upfront. It's always been my way of dealing in bars as well. If a girls first thought is : How much you give me ? " her second thought is not about to be " How can I make this guy happy ? "
We have had long discussions here about the two styles - negotiate vs. do not discuss-- you just have to do what's comfortable for you. I also agree about the service girl butting in. This happens not too infrequently. Some of the girls have a deal with a service girl to do their asking for them because they think it makes them look less mercenary. There are other service girls who are wannabe mamasans and try to impress Mama by sealing a deal for a barfine.
Whatever the reason it is one of my huge turn offs and I have walked out of bars because of pushy service girls , making sure to let the Mamasan know why I am leaving. I do not need a lady pimp to negotiate a deal for me. Even if the bar girls know ZERO English they know how to negotiate a deal if they want to.

As to price-- since I pay after and the girl does not know how much she will recieve - I pay 1,500 for average service ST and 2,000 or rarely 2,500 for extraordinary service. IMO it's only fair to base on service not on pre set pricing.
If the girl asks how much I will give her after I BF her I say " Up to you " turning their favorite phrase back on them. They almost always ask what I mean. I say " Up to you-- What you do for me I give back to you." A little incentive program never hurt anyone !

I like the "up to you" comment if they ask about money after the BF. Nice touch!

Bwana_Dik just posted an interesting comparison to Brazil and Thailand. He says Rainbow ladies were quoting 3000 to 4000 longtime and Angels Disco freelancers were quoting 4000 to 6000 LT. I would seriously laugh out loud if an Angels Disco lady quoted me anything above 2000 for any amount of time.

And then I still read stories on other boards about guys being confronted by the ladies for more money after the session when they are being paid. Or they are being quoted extremely high prices while chatting in the bar. Even though Angel Witch lady’s price was 2000 ST, it was not completely out there like some of the prices above.

I really wonder what these guys are doing or if I've just been incredibly lucky. I think they are being sized up by the women if they are getting price quotes that high. I am a firm believer in the "act like you've been there before" school. I even acted like this on my first trip. It was very uncomfortable for me to try and pull this off but I did and it has worked well for me ever since.

Maybe since I DON'T discuss money beforehand they know that I know the score and don't give me any trouble. Or maybe the ladies I pick are shy and don’t like to talk about money. Maybe they storm off pissed because I only gave them 1500 baht ST and don't confront me about it because Thais are from a non-confrontational society. I dunno. I just don't get how all these other guys are having problems and I rarely do.

Am I wrong now to assume that 1500 and 2000 are still standard? Or is 2000 ST, 3000 LT really more the standard now?

Xen
I have NEVER had a girl ask me for more money after I have paid. As I have said they rarely even count the money before they leave. I put it in their purse when the are in the hong nam.

As an extreme-- this last trip in Pattaya before I rehooked with Da. When my little 19 yo spinner from Living Dolls left in the AM, I walked her to street and gave her 100 baht for taxi. ( I know big time sucker to give taxi money ) Anyway she said nothing but just looked at me sort of looking hurt. I asked her what was wrong but she said nothing. Then I suddenly realized I had not given her any money upstairs-- I had completely forgotten. She obviously thought I was going to pay her 100 baht for staying all night with 3 fantastic sessions. I wonder what she would have done had I not realized my mistake. She seemed to not be willing to say anything.

Far from the claims of girls upping their prices, and much more in line with my overall experiences with Thai girls.

I just to add to this discussion, because I have just fallen off my chair in disbelief, 4-6000 baht for LT from Angels Disco!!!!!!! I have never paid more than 2,500 for a real classy, 9+ from CM2 let alone that price from Angels. Firstly, I have never seen one I would take from there because the quality has always been bad, secondly I would not pay more than 2,000 anyway. I can understand the prices rising at Angel Witch since its reputation has gone up in recent years but even then I would still regard 2,500 negotiated upfront as excessive.

I personally still believe that in BKK you can get good looking 8+ ladies for 1,500 St and 2,000 LT from the go-go’s. My pricing aim is still 500-1,000 ST, 1,000-1,500 LT from beer bars, 1,000-1,500 ST, 1,500-2,000 LT from the go-go’. I will be shocked if the price is much more than this when I go in November.

WW,

I'll look forward to hearing about your experience. It seems there are a ton of newbs in LOS that are paying too much and don't know the score. Those prices you quoted above are in line with what I like to pay and what seems to be universally accepted as the going rates.

KM,

Glad you caught your mistake. I felt sorry for the poor lady just reading that!