Tonight we went quickly to Golden Time than we wanted to hit regular clubs to see what is out there.

If you have been looking at my posts, you will notice that I am only a few years to retirement and looking to move out of country. Brazil was always my choice but in reality daily living in Brazil is a real pain in the ass.

I believe I can live a US lifestyle at a fraction of the cost if I move to Panama. Frankly its looking great.

Golden Time still has the best looking girls in Panama, but I find that they know their hot and so they don't work as hard.

The girl at GT was actually the worst I've had since mongering in Panama. Both Miami Club girls worked it better than the GT girls. I think I may be done with GT at least for this trip.

We ended up going to 2 clubs:

Next-This is a 20-40 something club with girls that would rival those at Golden Time...really.

Within 30 minutes of arriving and chatting up a few girls, we were able to fish out 3 and take them to another club. I ended up releasing mine since she was obviously wanting someone who wasn't going to fuck and leave.

If she was a Pro offering a freebie, I would have done it. But I don't like playing on the emotions of a young firl (24 year old) who probably doesn't want to be banged and left after my vacation is over.

Plus I didn't want the drama, plus there were many more clubs to go to.

Mansion-This club was better for me because it was a rock club. The girls were not as good looking as the girls at Next but still a wide variety of 6-7's. Drinks were cheap and admission was low.

Since we brought the girls from Next with us, we didn't really look for any other girls.

There is PLENTY of action down here for guys who don't want to monger with Pros.

At about 2:45am I sent the girl I hooked up with back to her car parked at Next. Other than making out with her for a few hours in the evening and getting her phone number, I didn't do anything with her.

Maybe this was a mistake but I am here to sample Panama, not get a girlfriend. However she was a solid 8 all the way around.

A little to add:

During the day I visited a mall at the outskirts of the city. There were many busses coming in from the country that brought people to good shopping.

The prices at this mall were considerably lower than the other upscale malls in Panama City. The merchandise was the same but up to 50% cheaper. I bought a friend a Von Dutch t-shirt for $6.25 at a chain store called Passarela. The same shirt at the Passarela in the city center was $15.

The downside to this mall is that the girls are more of what the European Panamanians call "Mayan". We may have seen one 7, mostly in the 2-4 range.

As long as you speak a little Spanish and seem to be in Panama for an extended period of time, you would have no problem finding a girlfriend or two.

I'd be interested to see what Alecjamer would say to this since he has the most experience in Panama on Club Hombre.

Sniper
Thanks for the trip report.
Is cbj the norm in Panama?
Are you looking to move assets to panama? How much is the cost and how safe is it from Uncle Sam prying hands?

Sniper -

Where you at the Albrook Mall (NW of downtown PC) or Los Pueblos (near Tocumen Airport)? Or, on Central Ave (dirt cheap prices...good blue jeans for $12)?

Also, the term "Mayan"...native indian?

I agree native indian women typically don't rate up there for me...be careful...their men shoot poison darts.

What day and time were you there when you mostly saw women that rated 2-4? I've strolled through the Albrook Mall as well as Los Pueblos in the early to late afternoon on a weekday and saw many good looking women...5-7 with a few 8s and every so often a 9.

IMHO...the best place to hang-out to scope the non-pro beauties is on a Friday or Saturday late afternoon/early evening in the atrium just outside the movie theater by Benegan's Restaurant and the Benegan's Sports Bar. Granted many chicas are with other guys...but times I've been there I also saw small harems of chicas just hanging-out or headed to a movie. By the way, many movies are in English with Spanish sub-titles...always ask to confirm before buying a ticket.

Be sure to check-out Hawaii Center in Calidonia (near the US Embassy) and Caribean Center (in El Dorado right across the street from the Do-It-Center). Since you seem to hang-out around Club Miami and GT...Caribean Center is only a city block away. From GT, walk across Tumba Muerto highway, head for McDonald's. At McDonald's hang a left. Walk about 200 yards...it will be on your left. The "Do-It-Center" will be across the street. From Club Miami, as you leave the club, go left, follow the road until it T-intersects the next road, cross the road and turn right...walk maybe 100 yards, it will be on your left. You'll find it is about $20 to $30 cheaper per hour compared to Miami or GT. There you pay $20 for a 1-hour massage and negotiate $40 with the chica in the room. Last time I was there they had a few Colombian and Dominican chicas working...I did the Colombian (a 6) the first night and went back and did the DM chica (a 5.5) with nice full tities and big black nipples the next night...very gratifying.

If you get a chance...ask a cab driver if the Golf and Cigar store is still open in the strip-mall near the Panama Canal HQs...across the street from the Martyr's Day Memorial (statue)...they used to have a great walk-in humidor with all brands of cigars...they also sold Cuban rum.

Sounds like you are having fun! Wish I could be hanging out with you rather than working!

AlecJamer

Athos,

I wouldn't move assets to Panama if you don't have to. While they have a lower tax rate and favorable terms for residents, nothing beats FDIC protection for banks.

That being said, no depositors lost their money in a Panamanian bank even when the US invaded and toppled Noriega. Assets were frozen for a few months, creating a lot of nervous people. However the assets were unfrozen and the banks even paid interest on the deposits.

Panama doesn't tax you on foreign income, no matter how much it is. Very nice benefit. You can also make up to $60K a year outside the US and Uncle Sam won't tax you for the foreign income.

The only asset I plan on having is a home. I have an appointment with a realtor tomorrow to see what I can get for about $50K. I should be able to get a 1500 sq. ft. apartment from what I can see.

Alecjamer,

I'll check out Hawaii Center and Caribean Center tomorrow. I went to Royale Elegance and Elite II this evening (Sunday). I think you were right in suggesting to get a phone number for a Sunday date. The pickings were slim at both places. I'll post my Day 4 report results a little later.

Mayan's refer to Native Americans. I went to the Albrook Mall and saw many there for Sunday shopping. They were even wearing very bright ethnic clothing. Attached to the mall was a large bus terminal that appeared to go into the countryside.

By the way, when did you live here? How long? Did you find living here to be an easy life or difficult? I'm not refering to mongering, just daily living.

Snipe, if you are interested in Panamanian real estate then check out escapeartist.com as they really promote Panama. Several years ago the promotion was on some coastal region on the Carribbean side. Lately it has been a very pretty mountain valley about an hour north of the city. If nothing else you can look at the pictures and fantasize.

Yeah I've been reading EscapeArtist for about a year. I've mainly used it to find information on Brazil.

However I'm a city dweller. I need a little hustle and bustle to keep me happy. The Carribean side seems to be more rural. The city on that side of the country is smaller and I don't think has as many Pros. I don't know what the women are like there either because the subject isn't covered that well on this site.

I know that you can get even more for your money on that coast than you can in Panama City. But I have a $600k house thats almost paid for in San Francisco plus my commercial property in San Francisco also with a lot of equity. I think the proceeds from those properties will cover any puchases in Panama City.

You are right, the countryside is beautiful. Hurricanes might be a problem.

Sniper -

Hurricanes are never a problem in Panama. Winds aloft over the region tend to make Hurricanes swerve northernly into Honduras, Nicaragua and further north. Not that a crazy event could happen...but very unlikely.

I was in Panama in the late 90s. I had a nice apartment in a high rise just off Balboa Ave with a nice Pacific ocean view out of my living room window.

Then I was paying about $1,500 a month for an absolutely huge apartment...actually, there were only two apartments to every floor...I had 3,000+ feet of living space including a maid's quarters. However, had a Panamanian rented the same apartment the rent would have been a lot lower. Gringo pricing I think is what they call it.

If you decide to buy, there are a couple things to think about.

1). Security - Get off the ground floor...high rise is better. Even better if you have 24-hour controlled access security.

2). Realtors/lawyers - Many bad apples mixed in this bunch. You need to seek out ex-pats who recently moved to Panama and get two of them to agree on an honest realtor and lawyer for you. Ex-Pats in Panama maintains a data-base of good and bad lawyers. You will need realtor and lawyer services to buy property in Panama.

3). New construction - New buildings in Panama, purchased by American retirees get a 20-year real estate tax break. After 20-years, then you pay like everyone else, but Panama rates are about 1/2 to 2/3rds of real estate taxes in the states. Also, be careful that someone doesn't try to sell you an apartment as new. If the building is 5-years old, my understanding is that you will get a 15-year break on taxes.

4). Expect red-tape and bundles of paperwork to accomplish the simplest things...registering a car...you'll probably have to pay taxes. Getting a driver's license...long lines, and if your turn arrives at lunch-time...they slam the window shut and there you sit in a 90 degree hallway for an additional hour. Setting up electricity, cable and telephone...big hassles...security deposits, and in some areas of Panama...not enough telephone lines...so, go cell. Getting insurance, they do not like US based insurance companies. Buying appliances...hard to find US quality and sizes for stoves, refrigerators. Also, no central a/c...for God's sake, they use high energy window units that force your power bill into the $300 a month range, if you need to be cool.

5). On average I'd get pulled-over by the transito (cops) once or twice a month on trumpet-up traffic charges...they see you are a gringo driving a car...you must be rich...so, they want some of what you have in your wallet. Low of $5, but I had one Fuck stop me after I just went to the ATM...all I had in my wallet were $20s...he literally reached through my window and pulled a $20 out of my wallet! He told me the ticket would have been $50...so, I got off lucky. Atleast he didn't stick a gun in my face.

6). To retire in Panama you must meet certain financial conditions...like you need to have enough money in the bank ($100K?), and an uninteruptable retirement check coming-in before you can move to Panama. Also, must pass a health screening...HIV/AIDs test. You cannot have a criminal record in the states or elsewhere.

There are lots of negatives that one must consider before becoming an ex-pat in Panama. Of course, there are the positives too...overall cost of living (once you've gone through the hassle to become established) is about 25-30% cheaper than in the states. Although, you can live in Panama on US prices too if you are not one who seeks out the best deals. And if you are the type who can adjust to a different culture...you can put-up with 1950s era technology in certain govt run offices, and customer service has no meaning to you (because, I'll assure you in Panama it has no meaning to them)...then go for it!

Now, would I do it?...I'm thinking...maybe 6-months out of the year would work for me.

AlecJamer

A resource for those considering retiring (or acquiring vacation or investment properties) abroad:

www.internationalliving.com

free e-mail newsletter plus escalating subscriptions and seminars

They publish a guide to living Panama for $59, comes with a companion manual on doing business in Panama (finance, taxation, very technical).

I moved to Panama a year ago and love it. Panama is becoming a hot hot retirement destination. If you plan it right you can get in on the ground floor but time is running out. Prices are skyrocketing in areas like Boquete which is a hot retirement destination. Boca de Torres is very overpriced at the moment. Pamana city is in a building boom and there are plenty of bargains to be had. In Panama city choose a good highrise and forget about breakins. Always go by the place you want at midnight in case there is a disco in the neighbourhood.
The 100k that another poster mentioned has been raised to $200k. Easiest way is on the pensionado program. Here you need to demonstrate a monthly income of $500 and you are in. There are some real bottom feeders here living on the $500. On the pensionado program you get 15% off for virtually everything; utilities, hotels, air tickets, meals.
Yes the red tape is here and minor things can take a long time to get done.
Health insurance is a fraction of what it is in the US. Anyone wanting to move here do it now and lock yourself into property. Land title system here is as good as in the US and much better than Costa Rica which is expensive and very corrupt.
In one year here I have been stopped by the Transito once and that was for not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle and I deserved that one.
When buying take your time ask lots of questions and check out a good yahoo website called viviendo en Panama to avoid some pitfalls. Good luck