3/22: My flight arrived at BKK on time, 11:25 PM. I took the advice Epi and others had posted in response for my request for help, changed money in the airport, and took a cab to Nana. On the way, we stopped at a traffic light, when I saw elephant for the first time—a relatively small specimen casually walking along the street behind its owner. An unexpected sight, confirming that I was in for an exotic adventure. The cab dropped me off and I checked in at the Dynasty Hotel, a few doors down from Nana Entertainment Plaza, before 1 AM. Two minutes to freshen up, and off I went to Hollywood Carousel to meet Dave the Rave, its manager. He introduced me to Jeff from San Jose (who was returning in a couple of days) and Leigh, an ex-pat living in Bangkok. It was hard to listen to them, with such beautiful creatures dancing on stage, bikini-clad with sexy high boots. Beautiful Asian dancers, all of them gorgeous. Half of them spinners. I was ga-ga at the go-go girls. Because of my predilection for the Asian look, I thought all the girls were stunning (and most of them actually were pretty good lookers).

When the gogo bar closed, we all went down to the Nana Hotel parking lot, where a lot of freelancers were hanging out. Walter, the manager of Big Dogs Bar, joined us when he finished closing his place, as did Dave. All the girls swirling around looked gorgeous. Leigh was saying we should wait until the disco closed, at which point a flood of girls would emerge. He was blowing my mind by informing me that some of the girls I was pointing out to him that I was interested in weren’t girls at all. Yikes, I was glad to have some advice on something I knew nothing about. Meanwhile, more elephants appeared—some BIG mothers. Guys were selling little bags of something to feed them for 20 baht, and you got the pleasure of having the elephant take the food with his (her?) trunk out of your hand. Wow, that was different.

Meanwhile, I had my eye on a hot spinner (Leigh said she was a girl, much to my relief). Su spoke little English, but when I decided I wanted her, it was easy. I negotiated a 1,500 baht ST deal with Su, who spoke almost no English. She was with her friend Nok, and Leigh suggested I take Nok too. Sure, why not start off Bangkok with a bang, I like duplas—besides, Nok spoke a little English. Both were from Issan, with kind of an exotic look. Nok agreed, and when we walked down the street to my hotel. When it turned out that Su didn’t have the ID required by the hotel, we went to the Penthouse short time hotel. I had a great time, although Nok was somewhat lazy in the dupla—she went off and stopped participating when I got involved with Su. Nok wanted to leave after one pop, which was fine with me.

Photos: Nok 01 02 03

I asked Su to stay longer—she was an incredible little sex machine, she got on top and would not stop. I gave her 2,000 baht when we parted, 2 ½ hours later. Penthouse was a pain in the butt, ringing the room a couple times. I paid 300 baht for 3 hours, but I think they were trying to get me out sooner—I wasn’t really sure what was happening, not speaking the language or having much of an interpreter.

Photos: Su 04 05 06 07 08 09 10

3/23: The afternoon was spent with my buddy Wayne and his fiancée, An. He said he had met her coming out of a store, and had fallen for her. He believes she has nothing to do with the hookers, never was one, and warned me not to mention my sex activities or the girls I was lusting for. Who knows—she‘s mid-30‘s, has one child who’s with her family in Issan, speaks a little English.

In the evening, I went to Big Dogs (a bar on the first floor at the entry to Nana Entertainment Plaza) at 7 to meet up with Leigh, Walter and Dave. We chatted for a few minutes, Dave went up to open his clubs, and Walter went off—but he sent over three girls to keep me company. I looked at them, they looked at me, we tried to talk a little—they were cute but not striking—all the Asian girls were cute at that point in my trip. After a few minutes, two of them peeled away, leaving me with a tall cutie, Lia. As I continued to look at her, she got more and more attractive—she had a subtle Asian look about her, different from the others, but I was headed for the go-gos.

When I got up to Hollywood Carousel, Wan caught my eye right away, a tall, very slim, pretty girl dancing at the pole. Dave called her over when her dance shift finished, and we agreed to LT for 3,000. I gave her 1,000 baht to pay her barfine, and she came back with my change. As she went to put on her street clothes, I realized that I wanted several of the other dancers, maybe even more than Wan. I would come to know this type of buyers’ remorse: there were so many (to my eyes) beauties around, that there was always one more beautiful once I had committed. We left the bar and went to my room relatively early. But Wan wouldn’t kiss, and wanted to put on a rubber to give head, despite my objections—and it was a generally lackluster performance.

After I came, I indicated my disappointment to her gently (I was starting to learn about the importance of “face” in Thai culture), and she soon asked if I wanted ST instead. I said yes, gave her 1,500, and went back to Hollywood Carousel. Dave asked what had happened, and suggested I would have a better time with Kung. He brought her over and introduced her to me. She agreed to LT for 3,000, and gave me a great performance that night and again the next morning. She was an almost-GFE who spoke decent English. Unfortunately, when I looked for her a few days later, someone had taken her off the market for while. Just as well, there was a professional element to her relationship with me, and I was looking for the Thai GFE I had heard about—the way the Thai women treat their man like a king (even the man of the night), wait on him hand-and-foot—and I hadn’t yet realized I wasn’t going to find that at the gogo’s (not being the young handsome stud some of my fellow mongers are).

Photo: Kung 11

After finding too many roaches at the Dynasty (in the new wing, too), I changed hotels. My friend Wayne had a half-price deal at the Marriott, and I could take it over for four nights; he was checking out to go visit his love’s family in Issan. I also went across the street to Jay Mart to buy a phone. I had information from this board that phone vendors abounded at MBK Plaza, but frankly, I was too chicken to set out in a new city, try to find my way to the unfamiliar place, find a vendor who had what I needed and negotiate to buy a used phone that worked—all to save a few bucks. Jay Mart sold new phones, I got a decent one for $100 and had the security of knowing that the store was right there if I had a problem.

During the next few days, I went to Lólita's twice. Shane, the Aussie owner, was hanging at the bar the first time, killing time before leaving for Pattya, and we chatted for fifteen minutes or so. I had Ying the first time, who was OK but not great—she offered FS when I hadn’t come after a half hour—and Nok (the heavier of the two Noks), who was not that good.

One afternoon, exploring an alley off Soi Nana, I walked into Charming Massage on a whim, just to get a foot massage. After the hour, Da, who was a little spinner cutie from Issan with very limited English (like, 3 words), said now I should have an hour of oil massage. I really didn’t want to get greasy, but she was cute and sexy. Much to my surprise, Da kind of seduced me—I wasn’t really aware that sex would be part of the deal (although I was certainly open to it). When she turned me over and started to rub my front, she started putting her face close to mine, more than necessary. I couldn’t help myself, I had to kiss her cute little mouth, and she responded—enthusiastically. We had great sex, with the added excitement of being in a large room partitioned off by thin curtains and other people passing by. She asked for 1,000 baht, plus 550 for the massage. Da was good enough for me to come back two days later, this time I got the oil massage for two hours (500 baht—“one hour no good,” she said), which was less than one hour of real massage and sex, sex, sex for 45 minutes or so—this time she kept shusshing me, apparently there were others in the nearby booths.

Evenings were mostly started off in the Hollywood Carousel or Hollywood Strip clubs with Walkingdude, a buddy I had met in Brasil through this board, and Dave the Rave (when he could get away from his job of managing). One night, Walkingdude took me to Soi Cowboy. That was an experience, all those spinners out in the street, enticing you into to their club. I didn’t think the quality of the girls was that much less than in Nana. Maybe a little. The clubs were not as well laid out, and seemed more cramped. And there were more elephants in the street, the big ones. Who got to clean up after those dudes? (Ugh)

Walkingdude introduced me to Mano_Poderosa, and he showed up most nights. The loquacious Dave had a lot of information on the scene and the girls. Mano_Poderosa was a source of much information on local customs, and we all hung out and went barhopping a few nights; Mano and Walkingdude showed me around.

Leigh was at Dave’s clubs several times, and gave me some tips about the katooeys. Aside from looking for an Adam’s apple (these were not always that visible), look at the size of the feet. Deep voices were a tip-off, too, as was height. Silicone breasts were usually not found on real girls (Damn!). And the heavy make-up was a katooey characteristic, too. General rule: if she looked too good to be true, it probably wasn’t a she. They were aggressive, too, often grabbing my arm as I walked by. I stopped giving second glances to tall lookers with nice chests, partly because if I looked for more than 10 milliseconds, “she” would come on to me, and I’d have to deal with that—and there were just too many tall lookers to sort through. I was quite happy with the petite spinners. Unfortunately, as I was to find out later, petite spinners could be katooeys too.

During this period, I barfined two more girls from Dave’s bars: first Tom from Carousel, then Por from Hollywood Strip. Tom had a dynamite body, despite a funny face—tall and slim, with nice-sized breasts. She also had a squeezebox pussy, and making love to her was incredible. But she also had a real attitude. I had specified sex in the morning when we agreed to 3,000, but when morning came, she got up and started getting dressed—she said she was tired, we got up too early. I reminded her of our terms, and suggested that I should pay her less if she didn’t fulfill them. She got really mad and said “If I have to fuck you now to get paid, I will,” and started ripping off her clothes. THAT looked like it was going to be a lot of fun—she was seething—so I said, “Maybe you should come back this afternoon when you are feeling better.” She calmed down and agreed, gave me her number and told me to call her at 2 or 2:30. I stalled on calling her, since I went to Eden Club at 1 PM when it opened, and needed a little recovery time, but we got together around 5:30. The sex was great (love that squeezebox!), although she wanted 1,500 baht. I had thought she might take less because I let her off the hook earlier, but NOOooo. She was sweet this time, without the hard attitude, and I paid her.

Later, I realized that she had just plain manipulated me to get out of doing her job as agreed, and I was easy. But I didn’t know enough about Thai thinking, attitudes and behavior to try to do anything differently than let myself get ripped off. I hope to get some advice from experienced board members here. Maybe her behavior was influenced by drugs, I know they can cause you to be erratic.

Photos: Tom 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Meanwhile, Eden Club was quite an experience. I walked in just behind a large bloke who was also there for his first time, and Marc the owner was at the bar. He explained the deal to us. There were about a half dozen girls on each side of the line, none of them real lookers. I think the Asian look charm was beginning to wear off—not every girl was beautiful any more, some were better-looking than others, and some weren’t so attractive. Also, there were a few dogs there. I settled on one from each side of the line, Pi and Kan. Pi was a little on the heavy side, with a nice plump butt that would receive a load of my devotion, Kan was slim and slutty/sexy-looking. We walked out the back door, down the alley a short distance, and into a building that seemed to be a short-time hotel. In the tiny room, we took showers (Kan dried me off with a towel, very nice), the girls got into action on me, and we had 90 minutes of non-stop sex. Kan strapped on a dildo at one point and had at Pi, but that was boring to me (especially since it was contrived) so I interrupted and took matters into my own hands (and mouth). They couldn’t quite make me come a second time (and I wasn’t trying, since I was planning to see Tom right afterwards), but it wasn’t for lack of trying.

On Sunday, I went to the Chatachuk Weekend Market, taking the Skytrain for the first time. After a little confusion at what I thought was the ticket window (which just gave me the change I needed to purchase my ticket from the machines that dispensed them), I easily found the market. It was quite an adventure, a huge maze of booths selling everything from clothing to building supplies. Early in my wandering I saw a silk robe I wanted for 250 baht, and later when I had decided to buy it, spent an hour unsuccessfully looking for the shop. Nobody told me that each section had address coordinates, each shop had an address.

Later, I was in Big Dogs talking to Lia, and decided to try her out. I asked how much she wanted for ST time, and she said 2,000. I countered 1,500 and she said no, 2,000. The barfine was 600, too. So I walked away, and just around the corner on Soi Nana saw Fon. I thought she was gorgeous, and got her for ST for 1,500. She was a hot little spinner from Issan, and we had incredible sex—she almost made me come during 69, and just kept going when she got on top of me. Afterwards, she said she was hungry, and I asked her to help me with the local food. So we sat down at one of the folding tables on Sukhumvit between Soi 2 and Soi Nana, and she prepared some kind of Issan dish. The street vendor brought a clay pot on top of a charcoal hibachi to our table, along with the ingredients (and I think there was some stuff in the soup in the pot). She tore up some kinds of leafy things (vegetables?) and put them in the pot, and slid some slimy things (meats?) off a plate into the pot, and after a short time spooned it out into a bowl for me. It was very good, whatever it was; I could not identify any of the ingredients, although I think I had come across some of them before in Thai food. I asked her if she wanted to spend the night, but she wanted to go home, she lived far away. So I made a date for the following night, and she said she would stay all night.

Photos: Fon 20 21 22 23

The date didn’t work out so well. She was supposed to come over at 10 or 10:30, after the traffic had died down (?—was she driving? Don’t these girls take public transportation, or do they actually take cabs?). It was raining sporadically, she called a couple of times to tell me she was delayed by the rain, and arrived shortly after midnight. Immediately, she plopped down on the bed and turned on the TV, to watch the finish of the Miss Thailand Universe contest. Then, the sex wasn’t as good as the night before (although it was still pretty good). And I knew things weren’t going well when she asked for 1,500 as we were getting dressed to go out to eat. I was too newbie to tell her I’d pay her when we were done to my satisfaction, so I paid her, and we went out on the street to look for a place—I didn’t know at that time that the Nana Hotel restaurant was open all night, and somebody handed us a flyer for Josephine’s, at the top of a building across Sukhumvit from Soi 2. The sign out front said Morning Night, and there were a number of bars with pool tables on the ground floor that still had some cuties hanging around (I went back there a day or two later, daytime, there were some attractive girls available). Fon ordered a steak (400 baht), then a drink, then got a headache and said she’d have to go home.

Photos: Fon 24 25 26

Somewhere along the way, I met Porker, Unspongebob, Phoenixguy, and Woodway, all at Bus Stop restaurant before heading off to Pattaya. It’s always good fun to meet fellow Hombres, to put faces behind the posts I see all the time, even if we didn’t have enough time to get to talk much.

One night, I was in Hollywood Strip with Walkingdude, and he had a spinner cutie named Por join him—she was all over him in a minute, and I was jealous, I LOVE that kind of affectionateness. So a couple nights later, I barfined Por myself (after asking to make sure that he didn’t mind—anyway, he was busy with another cutie named Jum by then). We didn’t discuss price since I was catching on that LT was 3,000 in the gogos. Por was another Issan hottie who provided an incredible sexual dynamo experience for me. I just loved the way she was affectionate and playfully sexual, too. I decided I would spend my last night in Bangkok with her, but she told me she hadn’t expected that I wanted to do LT, and wouldn’t do it again, she only wanted to do ST. If her English had been better, I would have pressed her a lot harder for another LT night.

Photos: Por 27 28 29

Your girl, Tom, is the girl that Porker met on his first trip down at the Landmark Hotel ATM. She's changed her look a few times (including blonde, wavy hair). She moved from G Spot to Dave's bar quite some time back and kept churning that ST ass. I interviewed her and within a MINUTE I got the impression I shouldn't barfine her. Sounds like you got a different vibe, and it worked out.

I also recognize your freelancer Fon. She's been around that area for a while.

Sounds like you were having fun, but paying too much for the girls. Now, I've not been spending much money in BKK lately, but if LT went up to 3000B LT then I guess I'll just keep dropping my money in Pattaya/Batam/AC.

Good start. Looking forward to the next chapter!!

E

Hi Hunterman, I thought you had an excellent first time "tour of duty" in LOS. For a newbie to Thailand you hooked up with some hot babes and had a great time, how can that be bad? No major incidents or BG disasters means that you did very well. Now take a rest because you were certainly VERY active!

So is it Brazil or Thailand for your next trip?

MM

MM - I can't reveal the ending to this story....

Dave - Take a rest? Only when my body gives out. Tantas garotas, tão curto tempo (as we say in Brasil-so many women, so little time).

E - Tom's vibe was pretty bad for a few minutes in the morning. But she straightened out when I bahted her around...around 1,500 more baht

Hunterman, were you satisfied with that quality of looks that you have pictured above?

Some of them look pretty harsh...

Hunterman:

Hehehehe, your experience with "Tom" doesn't sound much different from the little dramas everybody has had in Rio. Remember, he who has the gold makes the rules. You should have either fucked her in the AM or kicked her out with just the 1,500 baht for the previous night's fuck. Never trust a garota to come back and fuck "for free" (don't trust for much anything else either). Again thailand might be different, in Rio she'd have to "put up or shut up".

BS

Hunterman, it was nice meeting you, and sorry it was so brief, as we were headed for Pattaya that afternoon. Sounds like you had a lot of fun, and I'm enjoying the report as well.

Epi, she sure looks different without all the makeup she had on that night we met her, but when I look hard I'm sure you're right. She also looks a lot skinnier than I remember -- that girl had some NICE boobs.

Porker

She was a rail - same as when we met her.

Since you first met she's become quite the hard pro. Her look now is significantly more contemporary. When we two years ago, she was working bar for a while. You could see some pro attitude, but she seemed like she could be fun too. Now, she is a denizen of NEP. I think she's empty inside and only baht will fill her up...

E

well, you made some newbie mistakes by overpaying and maybe drinking too much before choosing barfines(I'm sure you were surprised how the girls looked once you got the pics back) but at least you had a great time and went into Thailand head first. One thing you might want to do on your next trip with regards to freelancers is ask a couple questions before barfining them.
1. Are you a woman? But be nice when you ask as some girls get offended.
2. Do you have children? If they say yes, you might want to pass. There is a reason why Mom's choose to be freelancers more oftern and its because they cant get into bathing suits with deflated tits and spiderweb stretch marks...scroll up.

Looking forward to the rest of your report as your writing is quite good. Hope you had a chance to go to Pattaya.

Thanks for the write up!

I agree with others that you overpaid. Nana girls after disco is closed can/should be had for 1000 or less with easily equal or better looks.

And the 3000 LT gogo would be for a super hottie.

Bargain...and the bargain again...and again...

Bargain...and then bargain again...and again...


(Message edited by concarne on April 15, 2005)

Concarne, there you go again popping off about how other people overpaid. Why the concern over what other people paid their bargirls?

Simple Porker...he may not be aware he did.

If he is then, as we agreed upon before, he is free to do so.

That is all.

Well I thing the girl with the big teeth, should have paid you, versus the other way around

I'm sure I overpaid--typical newbie mistake. But I started out at the gogos where the prices were highest, and the music was too loud/their English was too bad for me to negotiate. Anyway, for the first few days I was too awestruck by the beautiful girls to WANT to negotiate. And, heck, it took me a while to learn to negotiate in Brasil (the little head did too much of the thinking).

DM and Blazers- I don't think the pictures do justice to some of these girls. Since I don't drink, I was under no illusions--but as I said, I was just gaga over anyone with slanted eyes at first. Su looks awful in the photos, but her attitude was a 10, which is more important to me than looks. Yes, I learned about asking "are you a girl?" the hard way. But I seemed to pick girls at first who spoke little or no English, and I haven't figured out how to interview a Thai yet (I can pretty well do it with non-English speaking Brasilieras)--but I will.

Hunterman great trip report, thanks for sharing. Since I don't know you it is hard to bag on your BF's. But Dude that looks like MY THAILAND! And I have well deserved horrible reputation for my Thailand BF's. Actually, after I second look, I think I still hold the crown of the man who fucks the ugliest women in Thailand and pays for the privelage. Maybe we can meet up some day in Thailand and barfine a couple elephants, I hear they can work magic with those trunks.

"Dude that looks like MY THAILAND"

*ahem* - who introduced you to "grandma Joi"...?

E

Epi - Do you have a picture of this lovely? A slut from "My Best Friend's Grandmother." perchance?

MX - My Brasil photos haven't won any contests, either (although I know my garotas are prettier than some of the others I have seen in person whose photos get higher ratings--some guys are just really good photographers). But I repeat, I'm more interested in attitude and sexual performance than looks, and I don't (usually) try to compete with the young studs for the stunners. Look forward to meeting you, your reputation looms large here, but elephants?

HM, you need not explain your choices, if your happy with them that's all that matters. I asked originally only to understand how you perceived the quality of girls u chose (in terms of looks) vs the general pool of available talent. Coming from Rio, I assume your making comparisions continually at least internally, and "hotness" perceived or real always looms large.

DM is right Hunterman, your vacation, your options, your choices. He poses an interesting question re your choices and the general talent pool.

I remember when I was in Nana picking up a girl based on her body language and the general way we communicated (mostly in sign language). She was pretty enough and turn out to be quite fun in the room.

I agree 100% with you that attitude should superseed looks if one were to make a choice.

Personally, I think it is important to let the guys know when they may have gone beyond the price structure in the event they may be unaware. Once they are informed then is up to them.

My first time in BKK all the girls were asking me if it was my first trip...the answer should be NO (mine was not).

And, as someone once said, when negotiating if you must ask how much than they got you allready.

Anyways, thanks again for the report and rest assured that I meant no critique of your choices. Maybe we can party in BKK sometime. I plan on being there this December.

No offense taken at any of the comments, guys, I'm posting so I can learn more. Fire away.

I resolved NOT to make comparisons of the women while in Thailand, and I'm still thinking about the differences (I need to do more research). As far as my choices, I think I did poorly at first, just as in Brasil, and the quality improved as I lost my initial wonderment. I know the quality of attitude improved, you be the judge on looks.

I am reporting the prices I paid so you guys with experience can set me straight on what the "market price" generally is. My first half dozen trips to Brasil, my cousin was telling me that $100 was appropriate pay in most situations, only after I joined CH did I learn otherwise. While I agree with Porker on payments, I prefer to be able to negotiate with some knowledge of the normal compensation scale. I didn't have enough time before the trip to do the necessary research on this board--there's a HUGE amount of information to sift through--so I didn't negotiate prices as much as I will next time.

I know some hombres believe if you negotiate much with the girls over prices, the session will suffer. In my experience in Brazil this is not the case and those who don't negotiate because they think paying the asking price will make for a better session are IMHO wrong. Since I tend to use the soapies in Thailand, where the only limited negotiation would be with the mama-san or papa-san, this hasn't been an issue for me in Thailand, or to the extent it has been (at a few go-gos) I don't have enough experience (or memory of them) to say.

Anyone out there with further opinions on how hard to negotiate (in Thailand, Brazil, etc.) and at what point it becomes counterproductive?

The only way to go about it is know what the going rate is, NEVER discuss it with a girl (if they bring it up, give them the boot), and hand them the amount once the session is over. PERIOD. If they really sucked or knocked your socks off, add/deduct where approp.

I'm sure, opinions will vary, but I will always stick to the following general price model:

BKK: LT= bf + 2k tip (2.5 if they blow my doors off). ST 1.5k period, 1k if looking for a one pop freelancer.

Pattaya LT= bf + 1.5k. ST= bf + 500-800k.

BKK: LT bf + 1500-2000 depending on look (super looker may go to 2500 but she better be the shit)

ST never done. Freelancer: 1000 all night, 1 to unlimited pops.

Pattaya: Go go LT bf + 1000-1500 depending on look (super hottie 2000). Beerbar 1000 tops.

ST: 600 + bf. Freelancer: 500 ST (3-4hr), 1000 LT tops.

That was what I forked out. I lost on 1 super hottie in Pattaya and it pains me to this day but I really believe on maintaining a rational pay structure.

BTW, my rule of thumb is to pay 25-30% of what a worker (bulk of pop) makes in a month for LT. This has been applied succesfully in Mex, caribbean and Thailand.

Last comment: even when you get a consensus of the price paid in a site such as CH you should factor in other things that may affect the price besides the hotness scale of the girl and most of those have to do with the monger. Are you personable? Do you speak some of the language? Are you young/old? In good or bad shape? Dress well? Smile a lot, are funny? Those can all affect your bargaining position.

As an example, in the DR I read here that people were dishing out 1500-2000 pesos for LT ($33 is about 1000). I paid no more than 1000 with some 500 and some freebies (thanks to my spanish no doubt).

In Mex a lot of the guys pay the SGs $15-20...I average about $9-10 for pretty nice unrushed sessions (spanish again)

Hombre: we should work in creating a spreadsheet with the country pricing scale ST and LT plus type of score (free lancer, casa, soapie). It has been talked about before but it would be very nice to have that cheat sheet.

Concarne, you're assuming money and bang for the buck is as important to all people as it is to you. Some guys really don't care that much. Then, as Laguy mentions, it's a question of 'should I negotiate and will it hurt the quality of the session'. I have never been to Brazil, but in Thailand I think it could be argued that offering higher amounts could in fact be an incentive for the girl to perform better. Personally I have been bitten before with girls telling me that they didn't want to put forth maximum effort for the amount I had agreed to pay. In those cases, obviously, you're throwing good money after bad no matter how much you pay.

Hunterman's post is very instructive as it's a good account of the negotiation process that goes on every night in Nana Plaza go gos. If bang for your buck is important to you, as it is to many of us, Nana Plaza is probably not going to be the recommended place to get it.

And while Don Marco's advice is probably solid, to assume we're all Thai babe magnets like he is and that we are pros at the Thai bargirl compensation game and can pull off his techniques (my take: Unspoken pay after 1K for all BKK freelancers and 1500 for a Pattaya gogo LT girl will generate some pissed off or whiny girls) is probably giving us a little too much credit.

>>>NEVER discuss it with a girl (if they bring it up, give them the boot)

Gonna have to disagree with this one DM. I don't fault a girl for bringing up the amount if what she asks is the standard going rate, or if she immediately accepts a counter offer at the normal going rate. But if she was coming off with the attitude that she's got the golden pussy then yeah, it's time to throw that fish back.

Pork-- I lost track of how many barfines I've had over the years, but I have had exactly ONE negative experience (my last trip-- RB2) and only 1 who whined about the payment (another RB2 BF, but who was otherwise a great experience).
There are two morals of the story 1) I should stay clear of RB2 and 2) it is very rare a BG whines or bats an eye at my payment.

I've yet to have a gal say anything except THANKS! in Pattaya. In BKK, I've had two out of around 100 that whined a little.

PG --
the "rule" is more based on attitude of the BG and not solely the fact of her inquiry. I have nothing against a gal wanting to make cash, but I do have a pet peave against a gal thinking of her payment BEFORE she earns it. Also, I have a sliding scale depending on the level of service. In short, if a gal makes sure I'm happy, I make sure they leave happy.

DM, I'd love to have the same results, but mine are vastly different. Maybe I do indeed just RADIATE cheapness!

Porker...hardly. My one assumption was that Hunterman may not have been aware of the average going rate.

As I stated b4 once he is aware is all up to him.
My experience (limited) in different countries is consistent with what DM suggests. Even the super hottie that I gave $15 for LT in the DR did not bat an eye and later she kept on looking for me.

Guys....is not like there is only a few girls out there...there are thousands!!!!

Nevertheless...for the benefit of CH and mankind I will continue my research in SEA this year and report how many girls gave me 'tude or bad sessions when receiving the average.

Ah Another argument we've had too many times to count. Negotiate or not to discuss amount. Well once again my 2 baht. I totally agree with Don Marco . Believe me I am no babe magnet but I never discuss money up front. If the girl brings it up that is the end of our evening. I will say something to the effect of Why ? You don't trust me ? Giving her a chance to drop the subject. If she persists in asking I say goodbye and tell her she missed out on a big payday ! Or as I have said before I tell her " up to you " turning around the usual talk. She will for sure ask what you mean . Then I say - You make me feel good - I pay you good . You make me feel great - I pay you great ! Gets a laugh every time and money is usually forgotten about. Of course it helps I'm speaking Thai but I never negotiated before learning Thai either.
Over 25 years now I have rarely had a girl ask me how much you pay ? As I have said I get to know the girl a little bit before asking about BF - buy a couple of drinks - maybe one for Mama or service girl and your BF will sense you are no cheap charlie and go willingly without negotiation. It is different in the street which is one reason I do not do the street girls. My loss I'm sure , but one I can live with. I'm not hurting for company in LOS.
I pay the girl what I think she was worth after the session. Fairly close to DM's scale. I fold up the bills and put them in her pocket or purse and it is very rare they ever even count it before leaving. I have never had a complaint about amount given and the girls are glad to repeat if asked.

Again I think each hombre has to do what he is comfortable with . Many I know want an agreed price. For me that ruins the evening and makes it a purchase not an encounter.

Khun Mor,

I totally agree, this is what I have been saying about building a rapport with the BG's. You are one of a dying breed of old school gents. The Thai BG's love guys like you because there's no confrontation or hard-nosed bargaining. The Thais try to live in a non-confrontational world (even BG's are Buddhists), and would much prefer the encounter with a farang to be "sanuk maak luey"(a lot of fun), than just one big "puwat hua"(headache). One of the biggest complaints I hear from the girls is that many farangs are too confrontational and "mie sanuk luey"(no fun at all). Some really hardcore mongers sometimes forget the "fun factor" which is why I call Thailand "land of sanuk/smiles." NB. I decided that I wanted to present the Thai girls' side of the equation for a change.

Khun Mor's method, above, is exactly the same way that I handle things. Getting to know the girls first is a big plus. One example that I'll give, Tom (pictured above) has an almost impossibly hot body, when seen in person. That being said, I don't think I'd ever barfine her, just because she puts out an attitude that fairly screams--"I don't much like you, and I'm not inclined to pretend that I do." That's fine, and that's her choice. But it would seem to portend a less than satisfactory experience, in the sack. If you're friendly with a girl, and there's some kind of mutual attraction, money has seldom been an issue, at least in my experience. That being said, I'm not the kind of guy that's going to quibble too much over an extra 500 baht, here or there.

Manos

Hi Manos,

I agree that it certainly helps if you know how to interact with BG's. Speaking good fun and friendly Thai is a BIG bonus for sure. (BTW your Thai is coming on leaps and bounds, and it will pay a windfall in terms of how you are perceived by the Thais). One of the biggest changes I have seen is how professional some BKK BG's have become. They avoid "cheap charlies" because they really do not need the money that badly. This is a significant distinction between BKK go-go girls and other Thai BG's. Some guys are throwing huge amounts of cash at go-go BG's in particular and spoling them way too much. The elite have several "sponsors" on their books who are sending large sums of cash, plus they have their own customer base located in their mobile phones. The glamorous BKK BG's are extremely entrepreneurial and after all they are not turnin' tricks for the goodness of their health!

"Tom (pictured above) has an almost impossibly hot body, when seen in person. That being said, I don't think I'd ever barfine her, just because she puts out an attitude that fairly screams--"I don't much like you, and I'm not inclined to pretend that I do." "

Mano

This is exACTLY what I found about her. She's all business. I would describe her as the ubercunt, and she's got a LOT of company...

KM

Like you, I make my time with the bargirls more social then business. Thai is NOT a requirement to have a GREAT time as you've seen me in action with my 10 words of Thai.

"This is a significant distinction between BKK go-go girls and other Thai BG's."

DTR

Jesus Tittyfucking Christ ain't that the truth!! I've even found this shitty attitude among many working in/around NEP in the beerbars as well. Guess that's why I'm slummin' in Pattaya most of the time or grabbing girls away from the Patpong/Nana scene.

E

Hi Epi & Manos, you are both right about Tom, my friend Khun Leigh agrees too, she is very professional. Not all of the NEP BG's are like Tom, some are sweeties as Khun Mor knows. You don't have to speak Thai but I was trying to emphasize that fun & friendly is the way to go.

Hunterman's photos did not do Tom justice she does have a killer figure, which could not be appreciated with all tose layers of clothing.

Epi, in defence of the go-go girls if idiots would stop giving these BG's HUGE amounts of cash it would help attitudes. It's supply and demand - many naive Westerners are parting with vast sums of money and that ain't helping the mongers cause. In all fairness these morons are ruining things for your average guy. The worst offenders are the sad losers who send money from abroad.

DTR

Yeah, there are some severely fucked up people that can't seem to understand that "buying" love ain't the way to do it. There are so many guys from US and Europe that absolutely hurl money and gifts at these girls - it's a joke.

I know one girl working a beerbar on Soi 4. She's got a boyfriend from England and another from Norway. The Norwegian knows about the Brit, but the first BF is in the dark. The Brit is puking money at this girl when in town, buying himself a place and letting her live there, giving her 20kB/month and all for nuthin'. She's STILL working that bar and STILL fucking that Norwegian (and anyone else that pays her bar).

I told my GF that she should NOT introduce me to this guy as I might disturb the bed of lies he's sleeping in. My GF asks me why I think it's bad "farang lie to Thai pooying, why not pooying like to farang?" I tell her "imagine how he's gonna feel when he figures it out (and he WILL figure it out). How you think he's gonna treat the NEXT pooying?" I think she's finally starting to understand...

E

Epi, if some guy wants to part with all his cash then he's the fool and good luck to the BG I say. There's no welfare system here and little chance in an extremely prejudiced society for "low class" Isaan girls with little or no education.

Examples of idiots in action - one guy bought his Thai BG a Toshiba laptop just so she could regularly keep in contact with him; plus he was sending a small fortune to her monthly. Some fools buy houses, pick up trucks, motorcycles and others are damned near sponsoring the whole village - it's insane! One guy from England bought his BG's family a whole farm with live stock. How the hell can you compete with that? There are some crazy SOB's out there in Farangland. Their BG is still banging all and sundry, plus the Thai boyfriend loves the new motorcycle that "Buffalo Bill" from Farangland has just given her!

LOL. Now that IS funny

"There's no welfare system here and little chance in an extremely prejudiced society for "low class" Isaan girls with little or no education."

I suppose it would be one thing were the girls to actually SAVE any of their money. Let's face it - money will flow through her fingers like sand while everyone in her family and her boyfriends will be there to help her spend. Hell, her family will probably whore her worse then her boyfriends...

Even if she worked bar for five years, two weeks after she quit she'd be right back there again because:

1. She doesn't have any other marketable skills
2. She's not saved one satong

I suppose it would be one thing if these girls were actually SAVING any of their money. However, these girls are pissin' it away as fast as the t$$raks can ship it via WU.

E

Epi, in a lot of cases this is so true but not all BG's blow it. One of the most prolific BF specialists "JUM" #35 from Carousel showed me photos of the one million baht house she had bought for her and her family. That's impressive by any standards but a BG like Miss Jum is definately in the minority.

DM, the BG and her Thai guy are laughing but the fool from farangland certainly isn't!

A good friend of mine knows a BG who has landed a BIG sponsor. She doesn't even like the guy and my friend is banging her for free. My mate gets a kick out of the fact that this idiot is indirectly paying for him to get laid. DM you gotta just love than one!

shit, i need to find me some of that

Hunterman nice write up. It was great hanging with you in Los. The pics of Tom don't do her justice as she is quite hot. Incredible body. I posted some pics of her before as well she just isn't very photogenic.

I'm glad that you have enjoyed yourself and I will see you again in Paradise soon.

On payments DM & KM are right on the button, I rarely negotiate up front and pay between 1,500 -2,000 long time, 500 - 1,500 ST in BKK. The lower figures are rarer nowaydays and I have paid 2,500 for steller performance and when LT has been more than just an evening and morning. Also take into account where you find the girl, you must expect to pay more from a top go-go or CM2 than the Grace or the beergarden.

From my experience if a girl starts haggling early on your chances of a good session are dramatically reduced, unless she is a trophy stay well clear.

What/where is the Grace? I missed that.

Grace Hotel - located up Soi 3. Some freelancers in the area. Many girls there are of "questionable" quality.

E

Hunterman

IMHO you have not missed that much, Grace is a place to go when all else fails, if you are heading there you have usually had a bad night or arrived in BKK after closing time and missed the Nana kick-out stampede.

I personally wander up sukky in the other direction if the "stampede" yields nil. I checked out grace once and retreated fairly quick.

I've given the whole asking for money topic some thought. Here is an example to illustrate my point...

DM tenet 1. I don't mind a girl wanting to make money-- that's why there are here...

DM tenet 2. If they mention money they are gone. I've made one exception to the rule (last trip at RB2 and she was gone later rather than sooner unfortunetely).

Hypothesis: I believe that in the end it is not the asking about money that i object to, but the manner in which it is apporached. For example:

what they do: "i like u, if I go with you (1) how much u give me or (2) u pay me xxxx baht?

My response: beat it. Next.


Now let's say a hottie walked up to me and said this:

BG: DM you stud, I want to fuck you until you collapse.

DM: ohh really (as dick gets hard)... hmmm what are u drinking ? (time to inspect the belly for baby signs and do a little screening grope)

BG: If I leave you limp, exhausted, knock your socks off, while gasping for air-- do u mind giving me 2.5k?

DM: baby if your that good, I'll even buy you some tom yom mu for round 2.

Point being there was a connection between my satisfaction and the "tip". In this case, I would be eager to take her up on her offer. What happens though is the first example... Someone needs to teach the girls the art of negotiation... assuming they can deliver the goods.

Regarding girls asking for money - my bottom line is this - do I feel like the girl is being really mercenary? If the answer is yes, she's going to want to bail ASAP to go make more money. Not my idea of a really good time.

Like you say DM, they are there to make money, so I can't fault a girl who wants to be sure she's going to get paid a reasonable amount when all is said and done. The real question for me is are they willing to agree (without a lot of haggling) to the going rate, and then forget about the money and have - and show me - a good time? Or am I talking to some uber-mercenary who's going to put forth the least possible time and effort for the maximum possible bank?

I do agree that a girl asking about money early on is probably a bad sign. But once we start talking bar fine it's fare game for discussion in my book.

How many of us would take a job (even for a day) without asking how much we're going to get paid?

PG-- your assumption is that it will be discussed. My point is that you should NOT talk and haggle about tip at all. My example was me digging a little deeper into why I feel the way I do. To illustrate my point, how can one possible talk about a tip and settle on on amount when it is a f(service provided).

PG

You ever discussed tip with service staff in a restaurant before your meal? No - there are established parameters. However, just like in a restaurant here in the states I'll tip more then normal if the service is good (or she's got a hot gumby/spinner bod and/or big teeters). Methinks the same applies to barfines. The girl that concerns herself with taking care of me doesn't need to worry about her tip.

E

(Message edited by epimetheus on April 20, 2005)

The girl that concerns herself with taking care of me doesn't need to worry about her tip.

Don't want to be negative here, but how is SHE supposed to know this in advance and trust you to compensate her in her accustomed fashion when she's ready to leave? Obviously most bargirls at some point are going to run into a guy that woefully underpays them and causes a good deal of bad feelings. Unless you're puking baht in the first place (JAI DEE, lol!), have a known reputation with either her or her friends, or maybe just EXUDE some 'I know what I'm doing and will tip you if you earn it' vibe, any popular chick (she has options besides you for a BF that night) that's been around for awhile will at least have DOUBTS over what she'll be paid.

In my experience, plenty of Thai chicks are hedging their bets over the unknown in such situations. It'd be GREAT in theory, however, if they delivered services in advance with the confidence of American waitresses that they'd get at a minimum the 'going rate', but somewhere along the line, this act of trust is getting fucked up by extreme cheap charlies or I doubt the bargirls would be so distrustful and so apt to hash out payment details ahead of time.

BTW, anyone ever wonder if internet mongers are REALLY responsible for determining the 'going rate'? If they WERE, why would the girls be asking for so much in mongering locations around the globe in excess of OUR 'going rate'? And maybe the stereotypical over-compensater has led them to think that just about ANY of us could foolishly throw a windfall amount at them?

Porker,

It's a game of probability for them and not a blind risk. Think of a bell curve.

"In my experience" I've only had around 6 or so girls ever mention the word tip while in LoS. Also, I highly disagree that girls ask for more than my going rate. I think they approach it as buyer beware.

DM, if you so rarely discuss money with girls, how do you know how much they generally ask for?

Yet another thread hijacked !!! Sorry Hunterman but I gotta join in .

I've barfined I'm sure well Over 500 girls in Thailand and I have yet to meet these "distrustful girls apt to hash out payment details ahead of time. " Even the girls I have barfined from Soi 33 have never mentioned anything about payment. If you act like you've been there before the girls assume you know what your doing . Even before I could speak Thai I had very few if any girls mention anything about payment let alone amount.

Maybe that's why you really prefer AC to Thailand Porker.The price is fixed and you do not have to worry about how much you're going to pay or any negotiations.

Before the internet the " going rate "was established by asking fellow mongers questions in person- now it's a bit more convenient and researchable ahead of time. There has always been an expected or normal amount to pay even in this unorganized situation.

Is not like that does not get discuss here enough...and when you get together with the fellows it does come up on occassion.

I like the technique DM...

Geez...I wonder if girls have ever thought of me as a cheap charlie??? Have not gotten that vibe yet.

Pork-- I don't recall stating they asked for anything...

If your referring to:

" highly disagree that girls ask for more than my going rate..."

I'm not sure your point. I think I'm clear-- I rarely discuss it, they rarely bring it up, and 99% accept payment quite happily.

You made a bold claim in the following line:

".... would the girls be asking for so much in mongering locations around the globe in excess of OUR 'going rate'?"

I don't know what "rate" you use, but I've run into a disagreement over payments a grand total of once in all my travels around the world. My going rate/s go over very well-- thanks.

Concarne-- if your truly a cheap charlie, they will let u know-- thai bargals ain't shy when it comes to this. Thai girls like to eat and be festive. Keep them happy and they take care of business.

Even without words, it's easy to pick up on. If your girls are usually happy, energetic, want to do multiple sessions, c u again, etc, etc you know one thing at least-- their happy to keep working for the same amount u paid em. From what u wrote, you are far from a CC.

It amazes me so much discussion is generated over something so mundane. Just like AC vs LoS diatribe...

After looking at the pics...Im confused...which ones are the spinners and which ones are the elephants.

Interesting stuff guys! I think this is the first post I have ever read that has generated so much buzz from so many serious mongers, in such a a short period. Good to know I haven't been overpaying. For what my discounted Canadian penny is worth, I prefer not to discuss money before hand, as it takes away from the GFE, IMHO.

When the deed is done, I usually fold money and put it her purse, 1000 for ST. and 1500 for long time, with maybe a couple of extra 100's for "taxi", if she was worth it. I never had any problems to date.

I usually try and get to know the girls first, speak a little Thai (not well, but enough) to let them know I did not just arrived in BKK with my pants around my ankles (ok, cock in hand), and buy them some drinks. I always let them know that no matter how hot they are, the are others other there. Walking has not been a problem (choosing can be). I like to go to the same joint a few times, and almost always ring the bell once if the girls and mamasan are nice to let them know I am not afraid of spending, it their attitude is good. If you treat them well (but that does not mean putting up with any bullshit), smile alot, relax, and try not to take yourself too serious, most girls will treat you fine.

Hunterman....good report!

BTW: I have been on Hombre for a couple of years and have yet to venture out to meet anyone. I will in BKK from May 6th to 20th(+/-), working out of my Silom Road office. If anyone is in the area and cares to meet for a drink or two, send me a message.
Paul

FDR

Be proactive - start dropping messages in the tripbuddies section and shoot out a few messages yourself. Why, you never know who's gonna show up... like ME for example

E

FDR-- I was always enjoyed mongering solo in years past, but have thoroughly enjoyed playing wingman many a trip with some stellar hombres. The guys u see posting here all the time are all great guys to tip one back with... If you meet up with Epi, you won't soon forget it

E

Good idea. I know accompanying you or some of the other mongers would be an experience I would not soon forget.

DM

I monger alone probably out of necessity, because my work makes me a very unrealiable guy, since it is my own business and I cannot simply pass the buck when work needs to get done. But I will sure try and hook up with some monger sometimes. Also, I did not know that Dave the Rave ran a bar in Nana, so I will go and introduce myself to him some day.

Paul

Fdr -- Thanks for the kind words, I enjoy writing the reports, it's giving back to the community which has given me so much.

Like DM, I had pretty much been on my own until I joined CH and started hooking up with hombres in Brasil. The quality of my overall experiences improved a lot, I had a much better time with some great guys (can't stay hard 24/7), and friends can help out in various ways, from improving the conversation with our prey to actually pulling our asses out of the fire if need be. And the Asia board guys I have met so far are GREAT, and very willing to be helpful.

Hunterman, you are right about the inimitable sight of elephants in Thailand. For the benefit of your confused Hombres who visit countries other than LOS, here are photos of elephants in Soi Nana. Of course other countries have elephants but NOT in the bars. Val and I spotted an elephant over the road from Dynasty Inn visiting a bar!

Another photo with BG's greeting the elephant. BTW, this is Melody UK bar...

I spent a LOT of time in Melody's UK throughout the last few years. WONDERFUL girls...

E

I had to go back and read this report for Hunterman. I have met him and he is a real nice guy and that might be his problem. Seems he always feels he has had a great time even after being fleeced and the girls not giving him anything near what he expects. He made the same mistakes here as he did in his new report. Some of it is really learning the language but a lot of it is being on guard a bit and not so trusting with everyone. Time for Hunterman to go to macho classes.

He can study abroad with me in Havana...

I'd love to take you up on that, Jonesie. I can stand to learn from a master--Epi isn't doing SA.

Thanks for the compliment, Blazers. In between the two reports (and before), I have mostly gotten what I wanted from girls, and I don't have a problem being not-so-nice when I want. Like with Michelle in Medellin recently. A lot of my problems in Cali (and even Medellin) were lack of preparation/knowledge--I'd been counting on Barry as a Cali wingman, and didn't have time to do any research when he dropped out.

But you're right, I'm more nice than macho with women, it's my upbringing that makes me that way. It's getting better, I was a total doormat 20 yr. ago.

I'm mongering my way to personal development!