When I booked a trip to Thailand in January, the last thing on my mind was getting hung up on one lady (see ‘AC Bargirls: Snack or Meal?’) In fact, my plan was to get a coupla dozen girls under my belt.

But, as John Lennon once said, life’s what happens while we’re busy making other plans, so I was met at BKK Airport in April by the same girl who saw me off in January. A near-fatal accident summoned me back to her, my main intention to see just what we might have.

Why the about-face? Obviously, the girl. I met her early in my January visit, and she grew on me day by day until I was no longer particularly interested in anyone else. When I learned she’d been in a coma, I saw it as literally a wake-up call and booked a flight. The time we spent together (and apart) on this second foray only intensified our entanglement, and now, for better or worse, I’m smitten, besotted, poleaxed, gobsmacked, hooked.

Later I’ll float a few generalizations about pros & cons of getting involved with a girl in Thailand vs the Philippines. First some observations on Bangkok and Pattaya in April:

• Prices continue to escalate. In January, Soi Cowboy was a refuge of sanity in Bangkok, for both value and enthusiasm. Ladies who didn’t discuss price and were happy to be given 1500 after ST now request 2000 before they leave the bar. One ray of sunshine is the soapies in Pattaya, which at about 1600 are half of Bangkok’s asking prices, and are conveniently clustered together not far from Soi 6 (Epi’s Epicenter.)

• Dave the Rave remains a stalwart ally of the brotherhood, and Angel Witch still boasts the most elaborately staged shows in both Bangkok and Pattaya – a great way to kick off your trip. Dave recommends that if you are inclined to try Soi Cowboy and Patpong, you do so before 9 PM, returning to Angel Witch a little later when the shows are hitting stride.

• Bangkok Teen has opened a branch, Teen 2, on Soi 24. I’m puzzled that nobody posts about other Soi 33 massage shops that offer the same services, such as 33, Patou, Euro, and Orchid (which even lists ball massage on the menu.) Perhaps the area is better known among Asian and Arab clientele, though Teen for one enjoys a substantial percentage of repeat farangs. This month an incident at Euro caused a ripple in the neighborhood: supposedly a receptionist was let go with a sizeable severance, but she spitefully called police, who showed and shut the place down for a bit. Word got out and spooked customers, who avoided the area for several days, and all massage shops suffered.

• Pattaya’s Superbaby and Supergirls are picked clean early in the evening by Japanese. These clubs remind me of Bangkok’s Rainbows and AC’s Blue Nile & BN Exec.

• Happy a Go Go is currently the most freewheeling, exciting bar with in Pattaya.

• One or two clubs in Pattaya still specialize in spectacles such as ladies pulling long strings of double-edged razors from their pussies. Others do strap-on shows with penetration.

Differences between Philippines and Thailand:

• The Philippines traded centuries of Spanish dominion (Catholicism) for American sway during most of the last century, and English is taught in schools. Thailand has never been ruled by a European power.

• Philippine provinces are distinct from each other in language and customs as well as racial mix. Thailand is largely more homogeneous, and 96% Buddhist.

• Almost everybody wants to get out of the Philippines, and most know someone who has. According to a recent LA Times article, 9 million Filipinos live abroad, and another 3,100 leave each day. Many Thai people struggle economically, but they’re generally in no hurry to evacuate.

• Filipinos have a national inferiority complex. Thais are generally more proud of their heritage and homeland.

• Corruption hamstrings Filipinos. Thais typically perceive greater opportunity for advancement despite distrust for politicians.

What does this mean to you? Simply that a Thai girl is less likely to be waiting for a prince to whisk her away. A Filipina (especially a bargirl, who believes she can never hope to marry an upstanding Filipino) perceives her options to be extremely limited, and foreign marriage the ideal solution. She will often leap at her first opportunity. A Thai bargirl, or even a good girl, may like your money, but she doesn’t believe she is irrevocably tainted by loss of virginity or even the work, and is much less motivated to abandon her homeland.

OK, I am not unaware of a need to convince myself that I stand some chance of success in my new obsession, and acknowledge an attendant bias. But, as a matter of fact, it would be easier in a way if my new love wanted to be rescued – instead, her plans for higher education and career are already in motion, and must be reconciled to this entanglement. She is an independent spirit who was happy enough being self-sufficient.

This is both bad and good news: While I’m reasonably sure that she doesn’t view me as her ticket out, her family ties are strong, so there will be challenges.

Also, she doesn’t live in a tourist center. In fact, there are no farangs in her town, and many inhabitants have never met one.

The greatest obstacle is, of course, US Immigration. While some board posts deal with getting a Mexicana or Filipina a fiancé visa, very little has been said about Thai brides. A Swedish diplomat in Bangkok led me to believe that I have no reason to expect any less of an imperious attitude from US Immigration in Thailand than in the Philippines, so any counsel is welcome.

I am always happy to see a new Tujunja report. You always have excellent observations and insights.

Getting a Thai girl a tourist visa is impossible unless she comes from a wealthy family or has direct US Citizen relatives.

Like your observations as I have been telling people the same thing since I have been to both places. Both have thier pro's and cons.

"A Thai bargirl, or even a good girl, may like your money, but she doesn’t believe she is irrevocably tainted by loss of virginity or even the work, and is much less motivated to abandon her homeland"

Any thai bar girl is tainted in their society, regardless of whether she wants to leave or not.

Actually obtaining a fiancee visa is pretty easy. I think that it took me around 90 days from when I filled out the application to when we landed in US. I think that having US citizen relationship when trying to obtain a tourist or student visa can be a hinderance. To some extent immigration feels that if they have connection within the US they will not leave. I have tried 3 times to get a couple of her sisters for a visit. The first time I showed US officials my Statement (in excess of 50K) and was denied. The I put 1.5 million baht in an account with her parents names on the statement (parents didn't know about the account until I had the statements for 6 months printed out and the money recovered). Two of my Wife's sisters were able to obtain student visa's and go to english school.

In any case best of luck to you. It is very challenging and frustrating to deal with US immigration. Thank god my Wife is now a US citizen and she can deal immigration for her family now.

Gotta be the dick in the crowd: "JUST SAY NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"!!!

Great to see you posting Tujunga and I appreciate the observations. I'm glad your novia is ok and that you're both doing well with each other. I seemed to have done the same thing regarding hightailig it out to Colombia unexpectedly to hang w/my novia here. Kinda neat to find someone that can make you do things like that, eh. Interestingly, I'm actually trying to see if I can get her a visa to visit me in the States as well, but it seems it'll be a major task.

Thanks for the encouragement, MX, Blz & Merl. We all succumb at one time or another.

And as for the well-deserved splash of cold water, Porker. I figure I'll get my dose of reality soon enough - just part of my continuing education.

DM, I didn't mean to suggest that being a bargirl in Thailand is accepted as matter-of-factly as, say, being a ladyboy. While I imagine you are better informed in this than I, it seems that, unlike in RP, a Thai girl can work a while and still have a chance of marrying despite not being a virgin. And if she comes home with lots of dough, she may even get some respect. Full disclosure not required.

Ezgab, thanks for sharing your experience. Perhaps I can pick your brain on the pitfalls some time. You only get one shot at this.

Tujunga
Gotta agree with DM about the bargirls in LOS as an ex BF of a Thai bargirl that had every Thai guy drooling when they saw her. She told me that any Thai guy would be turned off and never marry her if they found out any of the following.

1 She was not a virgin -- not a huge deal but still important to a large number of Thai dudes.

2 She had a baby - almost impossible to get a Thai guy to even be serious about her let alone even consider marriage once they knew she had a child.

3 She was an ex bargirl - even for a few months. THE kiss of death and no Thai guy would go anywhere near her unless she was supporting him . Even at that he would only be using her and she would be untouchable in terms of marriage. She could return home with a million baht but she would only be able to use it to help her own family or take care of her younger siblings. The money would not attract a husband or garner any respect. She would usually remain unmarried thereafter as her family's neighborhood would know where her money came from.

Many Thai girls in the bars are looking for a farang husband but not necessarily looking to leave Thailand . The Pinays are just it seems a bit more desperate and indiscriminate about the whole process.

Not sisters or brothers for US Citizen relatives...for some reason only parents and/or children will work as far as tourist visas are concerned and that is just a chance not a gurantee. The higher rate of obtaining a tourist visa comes from having a bank account that has consistenly demonstrated high income and parents that can demonstrate the same or documentation showing a successful business. Translation: Chinese Thais.

I stand corrected. Casting back in memory, I think my basic misconception is derived from a Tom Robbins novel. Sometimes fiction is stranger than the truth.

Great obsevations Tujaunga and a good report. But considering the historical conquests, or lack of, one would assume it would be the other way around in regards to Filipinas waiting for that white knight in shining armor to come galloping along on his trusty steed and whisk her away.

Master Bates.

MB,
The miserable known is usually preferable to the unknown, and, for better or worse, America is familiar. When I visited a remote village on an island in Samar, strangers clamored to ask how they could find jobs so that they might come to America.

Tujunga,

I believe religion plays a large part in the integration into American society. A Christian Filipina would have a much better time integrating then a Buddhist Thai woman. American culture seems centered around Christianity with Christmas, Easter, the days off on Sunday, etc.

I dated many nationalities of women when I lived in Los Angeles. When it was holiday time, I felt at home in a Filipino household because all of their customs/traditions were very familiar. When it was holiday time in the Thai/Cambo woman's household, I felt very much a stranger. I didnt truly understand what they were doing as I never grew up with their ideology. Everything had to be explained to me and then I had to grin, nod my head and make believe that I understood.

I would be very cautious about bringing anyone over here to marry as attitudes seem to change once they cross into US territory. The woman you brought over here might not be the same a few years after they get to the United States.

However, I can see where an older gentleman would enjoy the company of a younger woman. For example, a 45 year old male bringing a 20 year old female over to America. The woman will retain her looks and youth for at least 10+ years to come. You also might be able to mold her attitude in the way you want versus having to put up with an older American woman who cant learn new tricks.

Ironeagle,

Thank you for your thoughtful advice. I respectfully suggest that many of the considerations you mention are incidental to matters of heart, and offer no guarantee of success.

I know of a man who met a good girl filipina on the Internet, paid for her university education, visited her periodically, and finally brought his virgin bride to Southern California. Despite years of preparation, the religious and cultural familiarity you describe, and the comfort of a sizeable local filipino community, she mostly stays in her room, eating, weeping and whining.

I suspect that he laid out a careful plan on paper, but failed to cultivate a real connection. I think you have to go with your gut.

Once when I was having a discussion with an old friend, his new (American) wife interjected, "I don't know why you are friends anyway - you don't agree on anything!"

I responded, "I don't know anyone who shares all of my opinions. I pick friends who share my values."

Everybody changes. You can't change anybody. All you can do is go for a good heart and hope that you will continue to listen to each other.

As for the comfort zone during holidays, organized religion has traditionally sucked the juice out of Christianity, and I for one welcome a bit of fresh perspective from someone who practices a religion that doesn't institutionally condone the massacre of those who hold different views.