i just completed a five night stay in saigon (the local people don't seem to use ho chi minh). a buddy of mine got there two days before me and i left two days after he left, so we overlapped for 3 nights. could have stayed longer but felt like i did what i needed to do in that time (then i headed to phuket where i am now).

as noted by others, saigon is not in the same category as thailand, the PI, indo, etc.. i made a side trip on my way to phuket and probably would not have done it if my buddy hadn't booked a trip to check out vietnam for two weeks. i just joined for his saigon leg and i'm really glad that i did. i do think the city is worth a visit if you are in asia and have some time.

the international terminal is brand new and very very nice. unlike most passport control areas, you could pass through the line that said "vietnamese" regardless of your citizenship. so be wary of that. there was only one line for other passports and alot of people waited longer than they needed to (incl me). i stepped out of the line and got in the vietnamese line once i realize what was happening.

i walked past the usual taxi touts and got a meter taxi to the bong sen hotel. cost was 65,000VND (vietnamese dong). the exchange rate is 16,000VND to 1USD. i gave the driver 5USD. i think there is an airport fee that the taxi pays, they'll ask you to pay that if you give them the exact amount in dong (as my buddy did, i think 5,000VND). since i overpaid, that subject didn't come up.

the bong sen hotel is located on dong khoi. 90% of my time was spent in the area bounded by the streets nguyen hue, le loi, hai ba trung, and then the saigon river. if you walked the four sides of this rough square, you'd be back at your starting spot in 20 minutes. dong khoi runs parallel to nguyen hue and hai ba trung (and is in between the two). the streets running perpendicular (parallel to le loi and the river) are dong du and mac thi buoi.

the shops, restaurants, etc... located on dong khoi, dong du, and mac thi buoi were all very nice with tree lined streets. i was shocked. traffic on these was relatively light and that was nice. le loi and nguyen hue were heavy heavy traffic and i'd avoid hotels on those streets due to noise and needless time spent crossing the street getting to where you really need to go. i'll add more on hotels i suggest avoiding.

i thought the bong sen hotel was a perfect spot (note that there is also a bong sen annex, not where i stayed). first, i had junior suite with my buddy at $90. then i switched to a deluxe at $70 after he left. you could bring girls to the room (yes, i'm getting to the girls) but they had to leave by 10pm. also, the girl has to leave ID at the desk. i should add that the "fitness center" was really a massage parlor which offered hand jobs and blow jobs. this was on the sixth floor of the hotel. i didn't indulge but my buddy did before i got there. i think it was $20 for the hand job and $40 for the blow job.

i later found hotels with rooms from $30 to $50 that allow the ladies all day and all night, right in the same area. so the stress of not being able to have a girl in your room overnight is no more in saigon. these were not the short time mini-hotels that people write about, i saw those too. these were "legit" hotels. had sat TV and internet in room (and i'll get to more specifics on those).

now i'll give a brief commentary on what i call the lady bars. the vast majority are located on hai ba trung and most are simply known by their address on the street, like 49 Bar, 51 Bar, and 91 Billiards located at 49, 51 and 91 hai ba trung. one of my favorites was at the corner of hai ba trung and mac thi buoi and then my other favorite was on mac thi buoi (again more on each of the bars to follow). each of the bars had one or two pool tables and approx. 10 to 30 girls. they open for business about 2pm and close around 1am if they do not have customers. i think the beers were 20,000VND or 30,000VND. lady drinks were 50,000VND.

the charge to take a lady out was of course negotiable. i'll ballpark it at $60 and it is paid directly to the lady. reportedly, the lady then has to pay the bar an exit fee from those funds when she returns to work the next day (i believe 300,000VND or roughly $20). naturally the mamasan attempts to get this fee from you and add to the money you pay the lady. so they'll say $60 and then say $80 with the fee. i'm sure you can get lower but it will require some effort and i don't think you can just walk in and say "i pay $30 for your lady and want to leave now". we had good success with $60 (which probably means overpaying a bit).

i didn't feel the ratio of good, fair and poor looking ladies was any different than what i've seen in pattaya and phuket (haven't been to the PI or indo). if you had 10 gals, you had a 9, an 8, a couple sevens, couple sixes, etc.... i'll get more specific as i report on each bar but suffice to say they are not loaded with absolute stunners nor do they have a bunch of fat hogs.

when you want to leave with your gal, you go to a short time hotel via taxi. very close by. maybe a 30,000VND charge. $20 for the room and i got the feeling you could stay until morning if you wanted. i usually arrived around midnight and left two hours later. taxi usually waits as it all a package deal. one gal told me the owner of the bar and the hotel was the same. i think one even owned the taxi also but can't be certain my memory is correct on that.

my standard program was to get to the bars about 3pm and there were generally no other customers at all until maybe 8pm. i played pool with the girls and gambled drinks (my buddy and i teamed up against two girls). the bet was 2 drinks for us versus 4 drinks for them. so the deck was loaded in their favor. we got slaughtered at one place and lost $100 on drinks. another gamble was 100,000VND to each lady or they lost they would take off their clothes and run around the pool table three times. that was kind of funny stuff. suffice to say i didn't find much else to do in saigon and i love to play pool with ladies in skimpy outfits and enjoy beer and music. so, generally speaking i was in the perfect place.

these ladies are also available for travel within vietnam should you choose to have a female guide, etc... two mamasans told me this and i didn't even ask.

i also went to apocalypse now and Q bar which are known as the late night hot spots with all the stunning women. i'm not sure what late night means but i'm guessing at least 1am. i was in both around midnight and all i saw were western folk including middle aged women. saw maybe five gals at AN that were certainly on the program but i had expected many more than that. my buddy and i hit both of these on a sat night (one and then the other). didn't even finish our beer at either one. i thought i was in a trendy bar in san francisco, new york, miami or some other major US city with an ethnic mix. certainly not a fenwick or neptune in wanchai, hong kong.

on saturday during the day, my buddy and i hit the saigon racing club or phu tho - the local horse racing track. that was a real blast. i think donkeys raced in most of the 8 races (joking somewhat). one did have real ponies. but this was a real great scene. paid 100,000VND to get in the VIP section. you can pay 10,000VND to hang with the masses. not many westerners in the masses or the VIP. the benefit of the VIP was a/c and no lines at the betting windows. i'll add more details on the track but wanted to let you know my other activity outside my main hub of streets described in the beginning. the taxi ride provided for some real fun with all the moto bikes, etc... it is unreal on the streets.

i'll add in some stuff about restaurants separately. food was great and i'm not easy to please on that front. my buddy can eat anything but i can't. i had no problems.

i had a great time and met some really nice gals. will be going back to sgn on my next tour of asia early next year. i'll book a $35 room and be able do do all-nighters which i don't expect to cost much more, if any, than the short time (you'll see why in my reports on specific bars). will probably take one with me to some other cities, we'll see.

lastly, i didn't encounter any language issues so don't let that hold you back from making a trip.

Buick,

Good to get a positive report on VN. I loved the place whan I was there in 1974... I may have a chance to go back in the next year or so for work and spend some tine in Saigon. Look forward to the details...

Regards, BP

Solid report my friend.

Just to let you know. My uncle who is native born often returns to Saigon to see friends says he pays $10/ST at cafe oms. He took me to one and the girls were in 6-8 range in quality. The cafe oms are a local hangout but you should give it a try.

If you are going to drop $60, you should go to MGM cafe/disco/lounge. It is a local and Viet Kieu hangout spot. On the 3rd floor also known as the hip hop room, the girls will seek you out. However, you have to remain patient. You arent going to get that 'Hello sexy, man' stuff. In my opinion, there were quite a few 10s working.

Go to AP if you are desparate. The girls are overpriced for their looks. Too old and too ugly in my opinion.

As you exit AP, parked to the left, scooter girls should approach you if you are walking back to Dong Khoi. Please, Please, Please be careful because it is 50/50. You will either get a good lay or you will be set up. A buddy of mind got clipped one time.

Gossip disco used to be a good place but it shut down. Club X isnt too bad. The clubs in 'nam turn up the volume and your ears will be ringing.

If you want a girl friendly hotel, Giant Dragon on Pham Ngu Lao for $15/$20.

You should check out Vung Tau the next time you are in Saigon.

Very informative report Buick, good info by SAD as well. It's been awhile since I saw the City referred to as "saigon" -- Ho Chi Minh City as the stalwart commies will say. I have been itching to go to Vietman for so long now, and it's good to know the language wasn't too much of a barrier. But $60/gal sounds kind of expensive for fun, espec. if doing 2 or 3 a day is the norm and considering Cambodia had plenty of $5-$20/Viet gals. Too bad there weren't too many 8s and 9s', plenty of them in Lil Saigon I can report.

to all:

i appreciate the gentle commentary. i'm not the kind of guy that easily achieves the "market" price or rock bottom, etc.... over the years i've seen and been part of alot of banter on this site about overpaying, etc... and sometimes it is downright ridiculous. one of the most classics may have been back in the redsnake board days when guys were arguing over paying $5, $6 or $7 for the taxis in TJ. not even worth a minute of discussion.

everyone has their own style and skill set, getting the best price compared to the market isn't mine. so if you are good in that dept, don't let my $60 hold back a trip.

i'll be sure to report back after my second run early next year. i don't plan to spend much time in the US over the next couple of years. i quit my job and will return only to pay taxes in april and watch football in dec and january.

unfortunately, i'm not a real trailblazer so i'll probably be spending most of my time in thailand. when i go someplace new, i like to have a wingman. most of my friends are saddled with debt or families or both so they have a tough time getting out. i will be making my maiden voyage to the PI though. a friend from HK is moving there and i'll be visiting him there.

enjoy the life.

Buick,

Thanks for the report. It's good to know that there are GF hotels in Saigon and fun to be had. I've heard reports to the contrary that made me strike out Vietnam as a future destination, at least for mongering.

SAD,

Also thanks for the specific hotel recommendations and additional mogering info.

I enjoy going to new places to sample another culture as well as for mongering, I don't necessarily need Pattaya or AC over-the-top-mongering to enjoy a place. But by the same token if there's too high of a cost or too many hassles I wouldn't be interested in the locaiton. You both have moved Saigon up from an "avoid" to a ''try" in my book.

As I've said before, Vietnam is not a place to go specifically for our type of activities. However, they can be found, it just isn't as out in the open as it is in other locations.

Apocalypse Now used to be a really good place a few years ago but more tourists see it as a regular disco now. The working girls that are in there though tend to be overpriced.

Catwalk has always been a favorite of mine with stunning women, but it's not for someone on a budget as it can be pricey also to take one of the girls out.

Info: CATWALK East Wing New World Hotel Saigon 76 Le Lai, District 1 Ho Chi Minh City Tel: (84-8) 824 3760

Next time you are there, if you have some time and patience, you can try to get into the non-pro scene with one of the many beauty salons around the city. These are staffed with cute girls in skimpy outfits that treat you like a king. You can get anything non-sexual done there ... hair cut, shampoo, shave, facials (not the kind you want to give them), massage, etc. If you can get to know your girl it might lead to something down the road. However, be discreet because if their boss finds out, they'll get fired. One of my favorites is Dyen Dang because it's clean with new facilities and a lot of cute girls.

Info: Duyen Dang 2 Address: 41 Le Anh Xuan St Phone: 8247390

Regarding food, I liked Pho 24. I ate at the one across from Benh Thanh market a lot.

Also, there is a small restaurant that serves traditional Vietnamese food called Restaurant 13 that I liked.

Info: Restaurant 13 Address: 15 Ngo Duc Ko, Q1 Phone: 8239314