OK, so I dont post as much as I should for a foreign resident of Bangkok. But there really isnt all that much intel to add to the board.

And frankly, while the scene is still a veritable fantasy land for mongers who are on the Western expat salary with the housing allowance and bonus for the 'inconvenience' of living overseas, for those of us on a budget or earning baht the scene is sliding downhill fast.

Case in point, my night out on a recent Saturday:

Ended up at my favorite bar, Tilac, during happy hour. Drank three beers for 210 baht, and bought a drink for a girl I've had my eye on for awhile who I wanted to get to know a bit better. She remains a candidate, but I rarely pull the trigger on anything less than exceptional nowadays, so once the rain let up I decided to head home, not having the intention to barfine anybody.
Stopped into Five Star bar on my way out of Cowboy, only cuz i saw a cutie there who was giving me the eye before she started work. this is a funky litle bar, with a limited and kinda worn out selection, but on second inspection, this chica was inded a diamond in the rough: 19, just started to work bar, spoke no english. My kind of girl. She was very friendly and was giving a great vibe.
Paid her bar, and she asked for 10 mins to go eat. No problem. or so i thought.
Her cousin, the mamasan, brought me outside, away from the deafening music to tell me she might be as long as 1 hour. ha, i said, sounds like she's going with another customer. OK, she said, if she's not back in 30 mins, you get your barfine back. Very well.

So I took a stroll myself to get a bite to eat, and when i returned the mamasan gave me a free beer. However, 30 mins passed and I dont care for sloppy seconds, especially if i am paying for it, so i got my baht back and headed home alone.

So many hit and miss experiences in BKK gogos, adn so many guys paying too much,it has truly ruined the scene. The concept of customer service that predominated a few years ago has disappeared. Now the name of the game is extract the maximum amount of baht from the customer in the shortest time...admittedly this has always been the case, we are talking about prostitution here after all...but the disturbing trend is that the girls, and even the mamasans and managers, dont give a shit about the service provided in exchange for the baht.

Considering some of the nightmare barfine experiences i have had lately (runners who split before even giving me the agreed-upon shag), I suppose Five-Star showed above average ethics by even returning me the barfine.

This is a case in point, why experienced Asia mongers like MongerX, et al are turning to China and Indonesia...BKK is great point and click for newbies who dont know how good it can really be, for much less money.

Unfortunately, it looks as if Indo moving out of a golden age. As recently as a year ago, $30-$40 all nighters were easily obtained in places like Batam, Jakarta, Surabaya, and even Bali. Granted in some places this was from take out bordellos and other places it was from FL'ers. But pretty much that in now the shortime price. Now days long time is gonna start around $50 and often will cost you $100. Luckily, if you pick your venues wisely, you can still get great service. But the key word is pick your venue wisely.

For Jakarta in particular, the prices of most other things has risen at bout 15-20% per year. Also, the bluebirds have now rised their prices again; the flag down price is 6000 if you catch them in the street and 7500 if you catch them from a hotel stand. A year ago this was 4000. Also, if you are raw sex loving guy, you will now be dissapointed in the brothels of west and north Jakarta. Overnight you have gone from widespread BB sex to 100% covered FS.

Changping in China is still near the top of its game. But the number of the BBS and the typical service you get from them has gone significantly downhill the last two years. There is tremendous pressure with the large upswing in tourist whose main mongering source is to make chicken runs here. Prices, here are holding steady, but the appreciation of the Yuan is making thing more expensive.

But as negative as this news is, things must be really bad in the LOS, Cambodia, PI triangle of horny white guys in Asia; my PM box here was been literally gettting flooded with questions about China and Indo. While I do pimp these locations more than I should (too many white faces always seems to ruin the scene) I hope people realize, that this is real Asia and in know way caters to westerners. You will not have the comfort of having reasonable communication in English, nor the benefit of girls used to dealing with westerners and understanding what our typical tastes and M.O.'s are. To paraphrase what Tujunga has said, if you really only have a couple weeks a year, do you want to spend 90% of that dealing with culture shock, learning curves, and language barriers?

Yes, after what you've posted about the women in China, especially for someone who would be disappointed by the decline in service and increase in prices elsewhere.

(Message edited by Hunterman on October 11, 2008)

Yes, after what you've posted about China.

i'm working on a trip report for bkk now. i spent a month there. hotel, ladies, booze, food cost me just under $5000 for the month. hotel was $50/nt (president park monthly rate). i barely spent money on booze and food so the rest was on women.

i can't imagine being able to afford anything in bkk if you are earning wages in baht.

Is Pattaya a cheaper trip?

Yes, it can be--but you can always spend a lot, depending on your venues (e.g., the gogos are the most expensive).

i always seem to perk up my ears when i hear you vets talking about what is and what was. it's kind of disheartening for a newer kind of monger like me who tries to play within the rules of making it enjoyable for all of us while i work on a fixed budget. i guess the hunt will be all that much more harder from now on.

Ten years from now, these will be the 'Good Olde Days'! Just can't stop 'progress'.

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quote:

Topfotog sez: Ten years from now, these will be the 'Good Olde Days'! Just can't stop 'progress'.

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Zupe, if you ever read my Bangkok report, "A Change in the Weather" from 3-4 years ago, you'll see I cover just about everything you said. It was in many ways a lament for what had happened to the scene. I still love BKK, but I don't spend nearly as much time there as I used to, and when I do go, my expectations are drastically altered from days past.

most places seem to change for the worse over time. they are still good but less so. it is the sad truth. i'm not a long time bkk guy so i can't really assess before/after.

i did recently report on patong beach in phuket and i have a relatively long history there (first trip in 1996 and have made 10+ trips since then). patong is one place that has improved in pretty much every area since i first visited. more women, lower prices for women, more restaurants, more hotel rooms/lower prices.

i'm not suggesting this is the new #1 mongering spot in the world but i do think it is one of the few, if any, places that has actually improved over the last 10 yrs.

i guess what that probably means is the downhill track is about to start !!!!

I was @CP sept.Non-mandarin speakers may have problem.At Walter hotel one guy [manager]spoke a little english.Pimseuler 1 Mandarin pulled me through.The girls in CHINA as a whole are cuter than any where else.A pity it is so far from North America and we need a Visa.

Buick, I concur with everything you say about Phuket(Patong beach). I went there with a mate of mine in 2004 and we ended up at the Aussie bar. It turned out that the owner Chiller served on the same navy ship as my mate. They havent seen each other for over 30 years.Hence we had a great night.
I felt the girls were better looking,total GFE, and didn;t cost the earth.We are heading back next year in May.

Another case in point why Bangkok gogos suck:

Had a(nother) runner tonight from a kings castle bar. (Had one from Mandarin a few weeks back I never reported on, thinking it was an isolated incident--but the circumstances were similar, eg: ditch the customer who already barfined you to go with a regular who pays more. Only difference is, Mandarin wouldn't return my money)
we agreed EXPLICITLY on price and amount of time she would spend for ST--as soon as she got to my room, she got a call from her mamasan telling her a japanese customer of hers wanted to see her.
she then dressed in a huff, and told me she had to go.
'hold on, you can go, but first i want my 500 baht barfine back.'
'i'll bring it to you later'

a nasty argument ensued where i told her i wasnt about to wait around until she got done shagging this japanese dude to get my money back, and i ended up having to go back to the bar and chew out the mamasans.

despite the fact they returned the barfine, i find this business practice outrageous...wasted my time, money on drinks and taxi.

i know it's really bad form in thailand to lose your temper and put the girl in the spotlight, but fuck, there has to be some consequence, and i am sure the mamasan will let her know it's bad for business when angry farangs to come back to the bar demanding refunds from the mamasans--other western customers see this, and it doesnt reflect well on the bar, although to the thais, this sort of drama reflects awfully on me, not them.

buyer beware: in bangkok, there is no such thing as customer service anymore. if you are overpaying, that's the only guarantee you'll get the bare minimum of service that used to be a matter of course.

Buick has the right idea: use BKK as a transit point to points beyond, at least if mongering is the main purpose of your trip.

I hate it when they get phone calls and texts messages when they get to the room. I have the perfect resolution.

http://www.fububling.com/ha5cephsibl.html

My phone is dead too but I don't want to be bothered at all during that time anyways.

I use it when I go to meetings and I bring it with me to the movies. You can not believe how many people don't turn off their ringers or actually receive calls during the movie. Not near me .

(Message edited by abramom on October 18, 2008)

Now THAT's a constructive post.
Good idea, and a nifty gadget.

Snooky, do those things really work? If so, I may get one too. I can count on many hands the times one of those gadgets would have come in handy.

Zupe, this doesn't surprise me at all. It is a perfect example of the type of things that can happen. I've encountered similar scenarios. It is one of the many reasons why I have much expectations of Bangkok these days, as much as I love the place.

The one way street that is saving and giving face in Thailand mongering is the MAIN reason I pretty much refuse to monger there. The face of a westerner is never considered, only the face of the Thai. Operationally that means your are supposed to always put them first, kiss ass, and always give way when there is a conflict. Fuck that it's my holiday amd I am the customer. absolutely too many other places that appreciate your business and take good care of you to waste your time in Thailand

Murasaki,
Mine works like a champ. Only problem is it is only AC 240V or charged w/ a car charger. So if you want to use it in the US, which I do. You have to charge it in your car or buy converter.

this story brings up another "lesson" that i've been served over the years. a few years back, call it my formative years, i read alot of stuff on this board as i went down the monger path. and one thing i did try to practice was "the interview", i was not on the negotiate to win program (still working on that one) but i was concerned with the services/timeframe from/with the girl. but i have to say the girls often lied in the interview and then this led to issues back in the room. through some trial and error, i didn't find that the interview was particularly helpful. certainly agreeing on the price was something (have to do that), but the time and the service were totally up for grabs in many cases. no girls lied about anal. but the time, number of sessions within that time, the bj's, etc.. were often not quite what had been discussed previously.

so i pretty much bagged the whole interview deal. i didn't like getting all pissed off and angry. just didn't make for a good trip. now, i'm much more good natured about the whole thing and just deal with a 3 minute bj or whatever might happen that isn't so pleasing. i simply know that i'll move to a different gal and chalk up the not so exciting session to the "had it, didn't like it so much" category. then, i take a girl from the same bar and serve notice to the "no so good girl". you ain't so good so me make change.

when i get pissed off, it can simmer for hours. maybe even fuck me up for whole day. this no interview is not for everyone but if you find yourself getting upset a bit too often, maybe try the no interview and just let things go the way they go. i enjoy a less than stellar session so much more than i used to, it is incredible. and i love going in and taking a different gal from the same bar, that makes the first gal angry and me happy. the opposite of what occurs with the debate in the room.

I'm coming in late to this discussion, but here's the issue with Bangkok in my eyes. It's always been more expensive than Pattaya which means people spend less time there than Pattaya or Phuket. That used to just mean you pay 1500 LT instead of 1000, but what the hell if you're only in town one or two nights?

Somewhere along the line the girls and some of the establishments have realized that they only have a limited time to get that baht out of Joe Monger before he goes to Pattaya. And they want a cut form every Joe because their will be not repeat business ala a Pattaya girl who hangs around with you for 5 days. Oil massage joints exploded over night, which are inherently more expensive than bar girls and must have emptied the go gos cuz BKK go gos are weak now.

The ST mentality spread and now has reached the point where even Pattaya now has more daytime go gos with an overpriced ST rooms on top of the barfine, plus mandatory 1000 ST for the girl. The days of grabbing a beer bargirl or two in the afternoon and using your own hotel room are disappearing.

Bangkok has spread to Pattaya.....Buick is right, Patong may be the only place left that is not over engineered towards mongers.