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Nice report, i will spend more time reading the rest of it. It is nice to hear another prospective.
Slick1

A sad story. At least it demonstrates how proficient the Cubans are at sizing up and stripping down wealthy North American tourists. As for the comments on Castro and communism, Dave should spend more time in Guatemala, El Salvador, the DR, Haiti, Panama, even Costa Rica, to get a flavor of what the "non-communist" Caribeann/Latin America is like. Not that all is perfect in Castro's Cuba . . .but daily life is a lot more stable and certain than in most of the rest of the region.

Conoroc, I wouldn't exactly call it a sad story; I had a wonderful time in Cuba. True, some of the "friends" I met weren't, something clearer in hindsight than it was during the trip.

But I met a few genuine friends, had some mind-blowing sex, and enjoyed seeing a truly amazing place. It's not such a sad story that I won't be racing back when I can next afford to.

I have a Honduran friend who emigrated to the US who says basically the same thing. At the same time, the obvious problems with Communism, starting with the dismal restaurant scene, made me form my conclusion.

Let me just say that if Cuba's communist system was replaced by social democracy, free elections and a healthcare and welfare system supported by taxes on a free economy, the Cuban people would be so much further ahead it's not even funny.

D

David, I loved your report. So many stories are nothing more than a mind bogling list of suck and fuck. It's nice to read one by someone who obviously took the time to see the Cuban experience and is not afraid to talk about it. Maybe it's because of my own beliefs but I always wonder about those who defend political systems like that of Cuba. NO ONE risks their life to flee to Cuba just as NO ONE ever risked their life to cross the Berlin Wall to the east. And yet, you can always find those who will somehow ignore the suffering of the people who didn't make it across. Or compare the collapsing social and economic system to some equally poor "free" country as if that somehow justifies the continuation of a failed experiment.

On a different note, although maybe not in the long run, your pictures of the decaying buildings reminded me of when I lived in the Dominican Republic in the 70s. Santo Domingo was filled with equally picturesque architecture and many of the buildings were still being used. The living conditions inside were naturally horrible. Neither constant electricity nor water existed not only for these buildings but for the city as a whole.

During the 80s the government made a big investment to attract tourists. Certain parts of the country became maga resort sites while others worked within the existing infrastructure. The old part of Santo Domingo that looked just like your photos became a hive of rehabilitation. Building by building, street by street, the central core of the city was rebuilt to reflect the colonial styles. Today, it is an area visited by thousands of foreign tourists and a source of both jobs and income for many people.

In the 60s it would have been a toss up as to which country was in worse shape or had the most dismal future. Cuba or the DR. Today it's a no brainer. You mentioned something at the end of your report concerning the effects of the embargo. While there were specific cases where the embargo has had a detrimental effect the overall malaise within the economy and the society are related more to the failure of the system itself.

Your comments about the non existence of good basic restaurants because of the lack of quality food is a constant within these kinds of social manipulations. With no incentive for anyone to produce a quality crop or distribution line or finished product you end up with the crap that these countries are famous for. Cuban food is outstanding. In LA or Miami where I have had it. Even the sandwiches cubano in Miami International are good. The recipes are there but the materials in Cuba are not. And even where they are there is no incentive to use them.

David, again, I liked your report and enjoyed the time you took with your photographs. Concerning the sex and the rip offs, maybe you also got a better view of the Cuban system than some "progressive" who ignores the real people, since real people are never as concise and easy to work with than the figures created in some lab or ivory tower. Scamming is part of life in the DR and in Puerto Rico and everyone does it to each other. Since Cuba is a part of this triangle of common history it shouldn't come as a surprise when you encounter it.

Hey, if it felt good . .it was good. More power to you David . . .for enjoying the pleasures of Havana. True, socialist Cuba has created an unexpected paradox: a top-down planned society/economy AND an incredible street-level entrepeneurial culture of touts, jinetero/a's, scam artists etc. . .all eager to get their hands on that tourist dollar.

As for the Revolution in Cuba - - if you judged social accomplishments by the quality of resteraunt food . . well, you'd have to flunk Cromwell and the UK as well. Actually, in my trips to Havana, I've usually been able to find some really good paladars - - both legal and illegal. If you stick to the tourist haunts or the tout-guides, you'll end up with the worst - - food and sometimes-otherwise - -that Havana has to offer.

The DR is a bad counterproof to Cuba's achievements - - poverty there is extraordinary, standards of living outside the "colonial Disneyland" of SD equal to the worst of the third world, health care either non-existent or prohibitvely expensive, etc. etc. These are all reasons that NYC now boasts more Dominicans than SD itself.

I'm not saying that things are perfect in Cuba - - especially civil liberties-wise - - I am saying that to gauge the failure/success of Castro, one has to have more in mind than either "tourist designated zones" or American suburubs. My experience is that - - outside tout-land - - most Cubans want change, but they also want to preserve the real accomplishments of the revolution: education, health care, guaranteed housing, minimum standard of living, etc. How to preserve these in the shadow of the capitalist-imperialist behemoth only 90 miles to the north is the true paradox for Cubans.

Finally, Cuban women are like a drug . .once you've taken your first taste, you can never go back.

Dave:

Great report, it's good to see Cuba from an "average guy's" point of view. As for novice "mistakes", don't worry about them, after all mistakes are the first step in learning... I'd rather make mistakes and have my eyes opened than roll along fat and happy without seeing anything and then one day getting flattened when LIFE catches up with me.

Which brings me to your chica. I'm going to conciously make the mistake of preaching/giving advice when none was called for (and you should see what a prick I am when someone actually DOES ask me for advice). Overall, it's great that you had a good time with your gal, and that's all that matters. But don't go any further with her, or any other chica before you examine yourself and what you want in life/in a relationship a bit. Understanding that I'm basing my opinion just on what I read, you let this girl caal the shots and CONTROL you. The money doesn't matter, the "missed opportunites" don't matter, but the CONTROL does matter. She told YOU not to go out of your casa? She told YOU how often and when you were going to fuck? and apparently she controlled where you went, what you ate, what you spent, etc... Hello? At this point, you may as well get married! I'm not a Cuba expert, I've never been there, but Doosh and DonGringo will agree, YOU have to keep the upper hand, YOU have to stay in control. Remember, "jintera" means "jockey", and you can see why, this girl rode you like it was teh Kentucky Derby. Not at all the best start for a long-term relationship, "amore",etc. OK, that's my unasked-for 2 cents worth, feel free to call me an asshole (just David, the rest of you Hombres already have!). Just do some thinking before you go any deeper into your relationship with "X"...

Good Luck,

Abrazo,

BS

Thanks for taking the time to write your report, it will take a couple reads to absorb it all. I am glad you had a good time. Havana is an amazing place, isn't it? I have traveled out of the U.S. frequently (my passport is running out of places for stamps) but have never went any place that grabbed a hold of me like Havana.

Hey I don't see anything wrong with staying with one chica for the whole time if that is what you want. I do think you probably could have negotiated a better deal though, without hurting the performance of the girl. Actually in hindsight, as much for myself, as for you, I think bargaining more and taking charge of the situation more would have improved your experience. Even though it is difficult to keep in your mind when dealing with a beautiful woman, in Cuba you are the commodity, not her. I have seen it at work, if you take charge of the situation and stay in control, you will earn a little respect, which seems to go along way in Cuba. Believe me when I say that I learned first hand that being a nice guy doesn't cut shit in Cuba. It is my natural tendency to be nice and generous with people, but I am going to have to keep that tendency under control on my next trip. Don't just listen to what Doosbag tells you about Cuba, try to understand it also, because he is correct with the advice he gives. I am getting ready for my third trip to Cuba and can't wait to put some of my new moves into practice. I am sure I will still get scammed and cheated, but hopefully I will win as many this time. All those Cuba vets didn't get their information out of a book, they got it from experience, either to themselves or by watching it happen to others.

If you want to see "X' again, I would suggest getting there a few days before telling her you arrive. That way you can sample other girls also and have fun with them and then do the girlfriend thing later. You might be surprised how easy that type of relationship or arrangement is to come by in Cuba and for less money too. When I talk about saving money I don't want to be misunderstood. In Cuba it is easy to "buy into" the mindset of it is only a few dollars and I have so much and they have so little. While it is always nice to save money, in Cuba it is about setting a framework for the relationship to proceed, whether for hours or days.. In some way you have to establish some degree of control, even if it is just getting the girl down in price $5-$10, if you don't most times you are in for some type of scam. This is something you can talk about all day, but it is easier to understand after you have experienced it. I already see you starting to put he pieces together of how your chica controlled you and milked you for more money.

As far as the food in Cuba I agree that is mostly horrible, but there are some places that are decent. Dooshbag actually took me to a few places that were good, so you might want to check before going next time. As far as hotels, I think everyone agrees that casas are the ticket for sex and hotels are only for convenience in addition to a casa.

Actually I wrote this before I read Badseed's advice, IMHO he is giving you the straight poop, mine is just a softer more gentle version of the same advice.

I liked your report Dave. Cool format and lots of good info. ANd it was cool to see it from your perspective. I agree with you that it is nicer to have a GFE than alot of quickies, but if I were you, next time I would avoid X. Sex only once a day? Thats just not right. LOL

"if Cuba's communist system was replaced by social democracy, free elections and a healthcare and welfare system supported by taxes on a free economy"
like here in the US, where we have corrupted elections, a market subverted by unethical CEO's, and a healthcare system based entirely on greed?
it's a nice thought David, but kind of a fantasy.
Maybe Cubans would enjoy a better quality of living if the US embargo that is suffocating their economy out of pure spite was lifted. In fact, maybe then, coupled with their healthcare system (which is the envy of much of the world), they'd have a better standard of living then us gringos. Come to think of it, maybe that's why there's an embargo in the first place!
And maybe then you could go down there and tell if your chica was fucking you for pleasure or for money. Too much confusion, baby.
That said, I'm glad top hear you had fun and feel good about your experience.

"In the end, I gave her $200 extra so she could do her separaccion. I'm not sure if this was an honest problem, or just another way of performing the all-important "separaccion" between me and my money. Sadly, I suspect it was mostly real; Cubans have the most bizarre problems.

One thing that separated "X" from the garden variety is that when I agreed to give her the extra $200, I showed her what money I had, so she would know I was making a significant sacrifice. She counted it carefully, prepared a budget for our last two days that would keep me under, and we stuck to it religiously. And even though I gave her the money then and there, I continued to receive magnificant service through the end of the trip. This kind of thoughtfulness made me think she genuinely likes me and isn't into taking the money and vanishing, as many chicas would have. She cares, and it's a moving feeling to be with someone who does. She knows that what she wants is a long-term, mutually beneficial relationship, and she wants to do what she can to get it. I really appreciate that attitude"

After I read that, I didn't think it could get any worse, but you go on about how the sex decreased to 1x per day instead of the 3x you want, and you mimimize the likely lie about the "separacion" by saying she really appreciates you so it's ok?

To top it off, you showed her all your money and you let HER prepare a budget for you? I can't think of a worse scenario-let me guess, she got almost all of your money.

Wake up. She wants to take the maximum amount of $ from you that she can and it sounds like she did a great job of it during your trip. I would avoid her in the future at all costs because eveidently you're willing to give her more. I'd also go back and read all of Doosh's posts on these subjects and maybe some of it will sink in.

Otherwise, I liked the format of your report with the links and photos of Cuba. Just remember to use the word "NO" now and again.

Hombrecito,

You were a little more direct, but thats what I was trying to imply. Dave should run from this girl next time. Sex once a day? I can get tht with my steady girlfreind. I like hooking up with just one girl for several days. It can really improve the whole experience, but they have to put out and they have to pretty much do it on my terms. Sex for breakfast lunch and dinner is not too much to ask expecially for that ind of money. Not that I have been doing any mongering lately so my opinion is probably not valid nor wanted.

But I did like the detail in daves report. good job overall. Just stay away from x.

In the end, you'll all be glad to hear that "X" suffered from the curious phenomenon of excessive greed. When we next see each other, she said, could you bring me some gifts, some nice clothes, pretty please? And then pay me the same per day you did before? Even I could see there was something seriously awry with that.

It took me a few days without her for my head to catch up with my heart, but that was pretty much the last straw for my chica. And yet I found it sad at the same time, because on one level we really did well together.

I would like to thank everyone for their advice and thoughts on my report. One thing that pleased me to no end is that people were actually interested in the non-sexual sections, such as my take on Castro.

After due consideration of everyone's views, I have to say that mine have not changed. Cuba is, by all accounts, similar to other comparably misruled South American and Carribean countries. Surely at this moment, being in Cuba is better than being in Veneuzela. Does this mean the Cuban rulers can hide behind the shield of free health care and say they've done a great job? I think not.

In the future, I will have to exercise more control over my chica and my time with her. My chica was so much nicer and fun than any American girlfriend I had, it was easy to be hypnotized by her. And the bad experience I had in the Telegrafo was surely a real setup for what happened.

I can agree with Conoroc on one thing: Cuban girls are addictive. I hope to do better in later trips.

I'll probably write more later; again, thanks for all the great comments!

D

DavidD:

Great reporting style and enjoyed the structure of your report, especially the commentary on communism and the photos. As a recent Apple Switcher (17" iMac), I was impressed with and appreciated your footnote citing no PC was used - I ain't ever going back no way no how ;.

As I progressed through your report, I began to cringe as I made mental notes of the "mistakes" you were being suckered into by chica X - I almost fell out of my chair when I read that you showed her your wallet with all of your money - doh!. And then I found myself begin to sob and weep as you recollected that sex had diminished to once a day!!!

She was very good....very good at separating you from your money by hitting upon every monger's weak spot and that is creating a illusion that she really and truly does "like" you and enjoys being with you. But, we are human beings after all. I know it is difficult to grasp and probably believe, but X took you for all she could, and she did it with skill. Avoid her and all like her on your next trip.

HC1 hit the nail square on the head on this one. Keep the following analogy in mind: "X" is to CH Mongers as Kryptonite is to Superman.

...descending from my soapbox.

Davidd
Thanks for the report, very original format. Sounds like you're a newbie. I would not worry too much about that chica X. You'll get better experiences in the future and just forget about her. I think you made a few mistakes and went to a foreign country not knowing the language but you did OK in my mind as Cuba would not be my first destination as a newbie.

David
Have I recalled correctly from an earlier exchange that this was your first hobby trip?

David,

I too am under the impression that this is your first experience in hobby travelling.

If so I've got to tell you, man, you have a set of brass ones. To go to a place as lacking in a support system as Cuba, solo, with as poor as you say you are in language skills is pretty amazing. You have my vote for the most bold newbie I've ever heard of. But I gotta say, some of the risks you took (knowingly or unknowingly) made me cringe. Just thinking about trusting a total stranger to find me a place to stay in a private home makes me shake my head in wonder.

But after successfully navigating all that pretty much unscathed you really made the classic rookie mistake. You fell for what the 2nd girl you met, after a perfectly horrible 1st experience, one which everyone was attempting to rip you off. I don't wonder that even a average 2nd experience would leave you in such a position, and with a good one you were doomed.

Can I ask though, if this was your first trip in the hobby, why Cuba? There are so many other places that have spectacular opportunities. And almost all of these places have many chances to hook up with fellow mongers, an excellent way of keeping one's feet firmly pasted on the ground. And actually, for all the criticism you've taken, that's all that really happened here, you got carried away by the moment, and had no-one there to bring you back to earth. The next trip, no matter where it is, you will find yourself much less likely to be susceptible to the same pitfalls.

Good luck and an excellent report. Thanks for being so honest, it's much appreciated.

Athos and DonGringo, you are correct - this was my first hobby trip.

I had plans to study the language in an extensive crash-course for the month or so before the trip, hoping to acquire at least a DonGringo-like fluency with it. Unfortunately, a major (and likely to be extremely lucerative) project reared its ugly head and caused me to have virtually no time at all to study.

My destination selection process was simple. I read many of the TJ chica reports, and it seemed like it was very much a hit and miss destination. Further, it struck me as similar in its tawdry aspects to prostitution in the US, just cheaper.

So I considered Thailand, Rio and Cuba. Air fare to Thailand would have been about $1,400 for the days I needed to travel, and if I remember correctly the trip was horribly long, so that was out. Since I had to get a passport before I could get a Brazil Visa, Rio was out, too; there was simply not enough time to grab passport and then visa. I also didn't like the high cost of the Brazil visa.

That left Cuba, which also intrigued due to the Communist aspect and the success of mongers like DonGringo.

My showing "X" all my money was not a mistake. It would have been a mistake if I'd done it before she'd extracted it from me. No; I did it after, to show her there was a problem. Unlike American chicas, she was very cooperative in helping me to solve it.

In terms of the trip costing more than it needed to, I definitely made serious mistakes. In terms of having the best possible time, I made, well, the same mistakes pretty much. As SMan points out, my effort to be decent by holding on to a chica I liked even past the time it was clear she was costing me too much backfired.

But in the end, I loved almost every minute of my trip. I had the absolutely best time I've ever had in my life. I was with a beautiful, sexy chica who worked 24/7 to make sure my trip was a joy -- and it was. Yes, there were problems, and warning signs, but the trip itself was bliss.

Could I have had a better time? Yes, I could have. I keep remembering that chica I could have had for $30 that I met at the Malecon. She was a really sexy blonde, and I have a feeling she would have been a really good time. So I'm sad at the path not taken, but at the same time content with my trip, since it brought me closer to heaven than I've ever been.

Let's not forget that in the end, the point of the hobby is to have a great time, not to save money. I, though, have learned an important lesson, which is that a very expensive chica is not the best option, since more highly sexed girls can be found much cheaper.

How does one detect a highly sexed chica? I notice many of the girls who seem hottest cool down rapidly in the bedroom (see the telegrafo experience). "X" was enthusiastic and fun, but not nearly as highly sexed as I had thought (in terms of the once a day rule).

Or do you just try as many chicas as possible until you find the best bedroom performers?

D

Davidd
I agree with some of the other comments that Cuba was quite a choice for a first time monger experience. I have mongered in the U.S. and Mexico for years with a little experience elsewhere in the Caribbean and Central America. I read some of the things that Dooshbag and other Cuba Vets had to say and thought yea, yea, sure. Well you have read my report and know Cuba put me back on my heels. I would have to say you did OK, so don't worry about it and just go forward armed with your new knowledge.

How do you find highly sexed chicas? A while back I thought I was really getting good at finding high mileage girls in American stripclubs. I was the one getting hand jobs and blow jobs in the back rooms while my friends just shook their heads, not being able to receive the same services. I was very proud and patting myself on the back. After some time I began to realize that I probably wasn't finding these girls they were finding me. I had spent enough time in that scene and knew how it worked so I didn't look like a cop and the girls saw that. A lot of these girls provide extras if they trust you in hopes of a tip or a long term repeat customer, to them it is just a business.

I think chicas in the hobby behave the same way as the lap dance girls (many of whom also are providers). If they respect you and know you have been around and know what you are doing, they will provide a better service. There are also intangibles, do they like you, do you have chemistry, etc But mostly it is business. If you have ever been in sales you know that some people just want to make a quick sale for as much profit as possible, but if there is a possibility of a long term repeat customer, you will do a great deal to keep that person happy. So in that sense you were really in control with "X" , so you should have been milking her for all she was worth. Hopefully next time you will know better, or maybe the time after that.

Also in Cuba there is good possibility of a relationship with a civilian, due to the poverty, but You would have to possess good Spanish skills for this to happen I think

DavidD,

I didn't realize it was your 1st trip and that does explain some of it. I disagree it wasn't a mistake to show your $ to X. Even if it didn't seem like a lot to you, $25 is a lot to them. Showing them your cash is never a good idea. The other thing is you tacitly accepted being with her the rest of the trip by letting her see the money and budget it for you. Trust me on this-she probably doesn't like you and she almost certainly doesn't respect you for letting her do this. I can only imagine the stories she told her friends about the crazy gringo who gave her all his money.

I'm glad you had a good time though. My advice would be to learn as much Spanish as you can and then try to team up with experienced guys like Doosh or Dongringo next time.

David:

As you wrote, it's having a great time that counts the most - you were happy, you were with a beautiful girl, and you learned some things about a new culture. Nothing at all wrong with that. You fell into a lot of newbie traps, but don't we all? and you came out relatively unscathed.

In your responses to everybody, you mentioned your mistakes and lessons learned. Forgive me for being blunt, but I think you are focusing on the wrong interpretation of what happened (and I'm just judging by what you wrote, so what do I know?). Your mistake was NOT spending too much money, focusing too much on one girl, trusting the Two Guys too much, passing up the $30 blond, or any of the things you've mentioned in the last post. Those events were all options you took, some better than others, but not mistakes (for instance, I too enjoy settling in with just one girl and not hopping around too much).

What was a mistake - the one that leads to all the other problems you experienced - is the loss of CONTROL. You let "X" run your life once you were her "noivo". No wonder you almost ran out of cash. OF COURSE she was very "cooperative" in helping you solve your money problem - you're no good to her broke - she just made sure that you stopped going to the rip-off joints so that there'd be money left for her). No wonder she cut back on the sex (what better way to control you?). I don't even want to go into her holding you hostage in your own casa.

Again, considering that you jumped into the deep end (Cuba), with no Spanish at all, and no buddies to help you out, you did great... far better than most of us would have done in similar circumstances. (Me? By now, I'd probably be buck-naked and chained to X's stove cooking rice and beans for her Mama, cringing when Mistress X called my name - "Hey WhiteBoyzito - Traga la comida! Rapido, bicho!" hehehehe.....probably loving every minute, I'm such a sick pup). But seriously, you've got to learn to stay in control. Remember the Golden Rule - he who has the gold makes the rules. You are paying the girl, not vice-versa, so she damned well better make you happy. X treating you well was her obligation, not a favour (especially at $100 a day... you DO realize that this is about 1/2 a year's salary for the average Cuban?). If you want to go out with her, go! If you want to fuck for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and flossing your teeth... do it! If she takes you to a lousy rip-off joint, let her know how pissed-off you are. If she gives you a "angry look", show her the door. No, I'm not saying don't be a gentelman, and I'm not telling you to be a brute. But there's only one of you and there's PLENTY of chicas wherever you go, so let her know it..... which means be ready to toss her out the door if she gives you problems (like sex only once a day!). OK, "toss", if you're a gentleman like most of us want to be, means give her a nice tip and a smile and say "Go home to Mama, I've got stuff to do now, I'll call you when I need you" or some other self-serving bullshit like that. Or just shove her out the door. Whatever. If you're starting to have "feelings" for her, tell her you need a "temporary separation", "need some time to think".... ;-) Just remember, YOU control how much of YOUR time/money/affection she gets, not vice-versa.

Your question about how to find a "highly-sexed" chica is not really answerable - at least not in those terms. You're looking thru the wrong end of the telescope, the real question is how to MAKE SURE that the chicas treat you right.... and the answer is to be THE MAN. Staying in control is key. This has nothing to do with how expensive the girl is, who beautiful, how handsome or rich you are. Its attitude. You have what the girls want - money, some fun, an escape (even if it's just for a few days) from their hum-drum lives in Cuba, whatever (mostly it's money). So make them please YOU to get it. Although, to answer your question aout the "hot" girls a little more directly, in my experience, the quiet girls who give you a smile, lay their hand on your arm, have a "twinkle in their eye", etc are usually the hottest in bed. Then again it could just be me and my own particular hang-ups, who knows? ;-)

Wow! overlong rambling post AGAIN. Oh well. Last piece of mis-begotten advice - David, you'd enjoy Rio. Spring for the $100 visa and go enjoy yourself!

BS

David,

Listen to Badseed, there's a lot of truth in what he says.

I would add something that I've learned through hard experience. In many cases its the chicas that you end up liking the most that turn out to be the very ones you have to take a harder line with. Not because they see your innate kindness as a weakness necessarily, or that they are overly greedy or "bad" people, but the bottom line for most of them is that they are lazy. I'm not sure why, human nature magnified by their chosen line of work perhaps, but eventually, they will test the limits of what they can get away with. They will attempt to maximize their return (both monetary and pleasure) while at the same time attempting to minimize the amount of work they have to put into it (gee, that's not a whole lot different than the rest of us I guess). And that means doing things they don't "feel" like doing, having sex several times a day (lets face it, for them many times the thrill has long since departed and most of us are not the material that quickens a young girl's heart with lust), walking around sightseeing (it's hot out there, and they've seen it a million times before), talking to a barely understood gringo (many of us are incredibly bad at picking up languages), etc. It's a rare chica that over the course of several days or a week will consistently act in the same eager-to-please way as she acted the first time you chose her. And if you are lucky enough to find one, watch out, you're in for an incredible ride.

From my experience here are the top 10 things a monger wants to do with a steady companion 1)sex, 2)make out, 3)sex, 4) eat, 5)sex, 6)sightseeing, 7)sex, 8)clubbing, 9)sex, 10)sex. On the other hand the 10 top things a chica wants to do after she has landed a steady novio (read gringo with deep pockets), is 1)watch TV, 2)sleep, 3)eat, 4)lay around in airconditioning, 5)call family, friends on a cell phone, 6)watch TV, 7)sleep, 8)go clubbing, 9)watch TV, 10)lay around on the beach (or pool if available).

Its up to the monger to get and maintain the upper hand in these situations, if you lose it, you'll end up wondering whose vacation it was, and by then, its too late.

Badseed
That is some funny shit, but so true. You have definitely hit the nail on the head. The advice you give is true for anywhere, but X 2 in Cuba. 1.attitude 2. attitude 3. attitude
Sman

David
Your trip report was interesting. First, let me commend you for venturing directly into an intermediate hobbying destination. However, reading your report was akin to a landlord watching "Pacific Heights" with Michael Keaton - complete with agonizing terror as I yell "NOOOOOO - DON'T DO IT!!!!" at the screen.

Anyways, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. Even if you made some mistakes, you appear to have learned from most of them. My only concern is that you seem content to have found one novia. Dude, don't sell yourself short! If all you want is a novia, go to the amore dating websites. You missed an incredible part of cuba by limiting yourself to such a small number of chicas. PLEASE realize that you are no longer in USA and try the rest of what the island has to offer, namely plenty of available chicas who you should bang 3 times in 12 hours before moving along.

Girlfriends/Wives/Soulmates are seldom found curbside and fucked shortly thereafter Why not expand your horizons?

So, where will your next trip take you?

DG

DG
"chicas who you should bang 3 times in 12 hours"

I have a question, what should I do for the other 11 hours and 54 minutes?


As for the "Girlfriends/Wives/Soulmates" thing I couldn't agree more, It is much better to pick them up in a bar, than curbside.

The real question is how I can find time and money for my next trip. Problem is my company has no backup for me, so if I left for a week and things went south, I probably wouldn't have a job when I got back. This is why my trip was when it was; if I'd been able to select my own time, I would have proabably gone when Dooshbag or you were there so I could have had some expert guidance.

My secondary strategy is to change jobs to one in which I own a healthy percentage of the company, but my newer job would have the same problem; only difference is that if I wanted to take a few four day weekend trips, I would have the money to blow, no problem.

Maybe Rio would be a good idea since I could at least admit to the world I went there, and arrange to be on call.

Unfortunately, there's something other than "X" that makes me want to return to Cuba, and soon. I think it's the amazing range of photographic opportunities; as you may have noticed from my report, I am a truly fanatical photographer.

"X" has been emailing me. I told her flatly that I was afraid I could not possibly satisfy my expected financial demands. Should be interesting to see what she says.

I am going to say that even with the relatively weak dose I got, this kind of travel is very clearly addictive. Now I know why you folks go so often.

If Mexico is a "beginners" destination and Cuba (and presumably Rio) are "Intermediate" destinations, what are the "Advanced" destinations and what are the advantages of same?

D

Oh - one other comment - I don't think I'll find a real Novia until I've sampled what's available. I want to make sure mine has the proper touch of nymphomania that makes life worthwhile, to the extent this is realistic.

But the dilemma is: Do I want a "good girl" when my number one desire is someone who's more than a little "bad"?

I would hate to fall in love with a "good" girl only to find that she wanted sex once a month, or once a week. I already had that kind of relationship, and hated it :-(.

D

Sman
Your wit is almost as quick as your libido!

Davidd
You're off to a good start. Did you like/appreciate the general adivce you received from this board to prepare from your first trip? If so, listen to these guys. They know a lot. Your next trip will be greatly enchanced by following their advice.

Rio is a great longweekend destination. Send MitchC an inbox and he'll fill you in on RIO for COMMANDOS 101.

Should you decide to return to cuba anytime soon, let me know...I may be there when you are. And if you stay in Havana, you can get a cell phone there and an internet card in the event you had to be reached for work. How do you think I make it there so frequently? ;)
DG

David-Now you're talking. Go to Rio for a few days. I think it would be perfect for you. It's hard to get scammed in a Terma, unless you go to Centaurus-even there it's a great value compared to here. You'll get to sample tons of gorgeous women just Terma hopping, but there are tons of other places too.

About "falling in love". If you seriously think you might fall in love or that you want to, you should immediately stop this hobby and go find a regular girl.

David:

Rio also has a wealth of photo opportunities. Imagine Los Angeles mixed with Habana's colonial architecture (in good repair) mixed with the Virgin Islands, and with mid-sized mountains and tropical jungle winding thru the middle of it all.

As for work, assuming you do computer stuff (being a computer geek myself, I can sniff out another one a mile away), between cell phone and Internet you'll be fine. There's Internet cafes with broadband all over the place in Rio, if something breaks, just telnet on over to home. Or spend your mornings coding and your evenings mongering. Take a laptop, whatever. Where there's a will there's a way.

Lastly, relationships... Hombrecito is absolutely correct - if you are going into this thinking of finding a long-term relationship (beyond a few days at most), then you'd better stop mongering NOW or even thinking about mongering. NO.

I've seen mongering described as "sportfucking" on various boards. Absolutely - you fuck, you have a good time, some laughs, a cute girl nibbling on your ear, live a fantasy for a few minutes, hours, or days, and then get back to your real life, refreshed and happy. That's it - SPORT. Wondering if a girl is "bad" or "good" or right for you or not is COMPLETELY outside the realm of sportfucking.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't treat the "chicas" as human beings or act like she's your girlfriend (and vice-versa - but remember it's an ACT). Treat them right and they'll treat you right. Have fun, make sure they have fun. But don't get things mixed up. Save the "romance" for the real world.

BS

David:

One last note... [[[Cynical bastard mode ON]]] you wrote:

"X" has been emailing me. I told her flatly that I was afraid I could not possibly satisfy my expected financial demands. Should be interesting to see what she says.

----------------------------------------------

What she's going to do is lessen her asking price in "gifts" untill she finds a level of money that she can sucker you out of. Dump her. NOW. Don't even bother telling her, just bounce her email.

Your photo of X looking at your air ticket, sad becuase you had to leave and she couldn't, etc? What she was probably doing was wondering how to hock your ticket for cash. Cut your losses now.

Sorry to be so blunt, crude and rude, but you're heading for a fall with "X". In Cuba, you lost some money and missed some opportunities because of her, but you had a good time overall. The "next chapter" of this story won't be so nice...

[[[Cynical bastard mode OFF]]]

Take care of yourself,

Abrazo,

BS

...."Your photo of X looking at your air ticket, sad becuase you had to leave and she couldn't, etc? What she was probably doing was wondering how to hock your ticket for cash.".....

ROFLOL

Man, you really who how to break it to him gently.....

Davidd,

As much as it may pain you, any chica that immediately starts emailling you for "regalos" after you return home is not someone you want to even communicate with. Not only is she only after one thing (your money), she not even very smart about it (or more likely she is so sure she has her hooks in you that she not even bothering to "play" you any longer).

Bouncing her emails is probably the best idea, because you'll soon be the recipient of an endless flow of sad stories that can only be solved by her American Novio sending just a little money. And because you are the person you are, you will agonize over every one of them, every terrible thing that has happened to her, every sick relative or friend in trouble. Best not to even open up a dialog at this point, and start planning another getaway in a different location.

....which is why I was being so blunt about the airticket photo. Anyone who's read most of my posts know what a caring, gentle guy I am normally....haahhahaha... hey, anyone interested in some Enron stock?

Seriously, Dave, come to Rio, you'll love it!

BS

Davidd,

The advice you have been given here is excellent. (And I LOVED Dongringo's reference to the landlord yelling NOOOOO!!!). In all honesty you were fortunate that your trip ended up as well as it did.

As for photos, i have traveled through-out Central America (especially Guatamala and Costa Rica), Colombia and recently Rio and there are amazingly beautiful places in each of these locations which rival or surpass Cuba.

Consider Cuba as your innoculation to our hobby. If you are able to get over your infatuation with Madam X then you will be able to enjoy your life and travels on your terms.

Suggestions:

1) Kiss off Madam X. She does not, and never did have your interests in mind. Any girl I give my e-mail to who asks for a gift or regalo or "help" within 3 months of writing I summarily dismiss>

2) Take another trip, to a different country. (You can always return to Cuba in the future.)

3) Buy some Pimsleur Spanish tapes and listen to them when you drive. It will immesurably improve your enjoyment of ever future trip.

4) Decide whether you are looking for a "bad" girl or really want a "good" one. Costa Rica or Colombia would be my suggestions of places to go to look and decide.

5) Keep writing. I enjoyed your report, even when I was cringing at some of your choices.

Pura Vida, Pogo

Good advice Pogo, particularly the part of looking for a "good" girl in Colombia (never been to CR so I can't comment on that location).

Colombia is a wonderful place is mix both the sport and a search for a good girl. And in fact the two at times intermingle to a degree because many of the girls one may meet in a club do not consider themselves pros, do not have that pro 'tude and make excellent companions that are eager to spend some quality time with an American. The payment system is often not discussed openly and the discrete slipping of a cash regalo in the purse or jeans of your "special friend" is a normal occurance.

I'm in contact with two friends I made on my last visits to CTG (both email and phone), and although one did ask for some "emergency funds" the other has never asked directly for a thing and neither have made a big deal of any money issues. (And other than the one "emergency", neither has received anything either.)

One thing I would strongly urge (and I I'm doing myself) is learning Spanish before a intense search for a "good girl" is undertaken. There's really little chance to develop a relationship with a "good girl" if you can't talk to her.

Hey but the search for a "bad girl" ain't bad either.

It seems as though you fell for almost every trick in the book, including the $20 leche scam. Sorry to hear that but I'm glad you posted about it for other mongers to learn. I made many mistakes in Cuba as well because the place is so disjointed and the people are so dishonest. The crackdown is really taking money away from the girls and putting it in the pockets of chulos. I agree about the food, it's horrific. The plus side is that some of the chicas are abslutely stunning.....although most of the non-pros have some of the hairiest bushes in the world.

That was a great report that touched on several important issues. I'll echo what Tight Fit wrote... it was nice to read about the whole Cuban experience rather than just a blow-by-blow report. This is a sex travel site, and though the "sex" part of that description justifiably receives more attention in most cases, it's nice to read a vivid description of the setting. Many of us don't know a whole lot about Cuba except what we've soaked up from the media. I find it interesting that in this instance, many of the media accounts are right on the ball. And the pictures were great.

Now on to the meat of the report... even for a diehard romantic like me, your report raised more red flags than you'd find at a pro-government rally in Beijing. But others more experienced than me have already doled out excellent advice, and I'm not going to be guilty of "piling on".

Here's a novel, although somewhat obvious, way of determining this chica's true intentions. I think the best approach (advocated by several others) is to break off contact, because it's rather apparent that she is milking you. But if you have difficulty doing that... why not just tell her something like, "I don't have a lot of money to spare right now, but I value your friendship..." blah blah blah, you get the idea. That puts the onus on her to display her actual motives, and she will either: 1) tell you that your friendship is more important than money, in which case I'd say you may have yourself a winner after all, or 2) realize that YOU are not a means to some quick money, and most likely decide to not even bother replying back.

But, as others have noted, I'd bet a fair sum of money that she'd choose #2, based on what you've written. If that happens, you can rest easy and remove all doubt from your mind as to what kind of girl she was.

Damn, I'm getting jaded.

"your report raised more red flags than you'd find at a pro-government rally in Beijing" Farsider you're a classic.

As for being jaded, permit me to offer one more observation about cubans in general. If David follows your path of advice, she will respond with love. Cubans earn $12/month. Even at only $25k/year, an American earns over $2000/month, or 174 TIMES what a cuban earns. They all know that Americans have the most money, the biggest hearts, and the poorest negotiating skills. That's why she will always love Davidd. Damn I am TOTALLY jaded anymore!

DG

Great report, DavidD. This was a wonderful TRUE story, devoid of the cynicism that catches up to us as we become veterans of this hobby.

I think DavidD did just fine, except for getting ripped off, eating bad food, renting the wrong places, bribing the wrong people, misinterpreting peoples' motivation, losing control of the chica-monger interaction, falling in love with someone who doesn't speak the same language, and not getting laid enough.

Billfromreading, Dongringo, Badseed, Farsider, etc., how can you be such cynics when actual romance is at stake? The child will be beautiful.

[[[click]]]

Actually, the one thing I'd do the same is to rent the place again. My Casa Landlord - not to be confused with the two guys who brought me there - was great.

I'm a little overwhelmed by all the support I've received here. I expected to be knocked down by all the flames, especially since my report was pretty sex-free. Instead, people here seem to appreciate the novelty, the photographs, and the attempt to honestly get to know Cubans.

A couple of people have written me apologetically about the tone of their responses. I write these reports not to brag, but to learn. The more positive exchange we can have, the more successful we are as people. So I want to tell everyone who's written that I warmly appreciate all the replies, and all the time people took to reply.

I think that before I honestly seek any kind of romance, I have to learn the language. I'm working on this, but finding time for it is not easy!

Farsider, I'm pleased to report that I did in fact write "X" basically what you said - I actually told her that I can't afford a Univision soap opera lifestyle - and I haven't heard form her since. It confirms your cynical vision, but is certainly the easiest way to free myself from someone who was clearly going to be a major burden in the future.

I would certainly not be against some kind of real romance in a foreign land. I'm worried, though, that if I tried for a "good" girl, she'd who would want sex monthly if that often. I'd prefer a genuinely semi-reformed bad, but discussions here make me think such a thing doesn't exist.

In that spirit, I wonder about the mongers who have genuinely come up with true favourites. The most prominent seems to be BluesTraveller, who despite his efforts to kick the habit, seems to have a real thing for his Patricia. And who would bet against DonGringo seeing BTG again?

I must admit that I really look forward to the next episode of the continuing soap opera. But I have a feeling that both BTG and Patricia treated their monders a great deal better than my "X" did me.

"X" was the first relationship I've had in which I've been confronted with a true expert, both in sex and manipulation. It was sort of like being thrown into the advanced course after having never seen anything but the bush leagues.

Anyway, again, my thanks for all your comments. I'll have more later, and for fans of my photos, I might release a few more albums.

D

Davidd
BTG is a great girl. She truly is a gem. I just saw her again last week - so you're correct not to "bet against DonGringo seeing BTG again". In fact, I saw her two times last trip. After the second time, I took my new buddy Hector over to see her so he could enjoy some time with her. She is after all, a service provider and needs to work, right?

Since you're a newbie, permit me state what is a given in this forum - our dicks and our hearts CAN and SHOULD operate independent from each other. If a service provider shows you the time of your life - treat her well and tell a friend, but don't spend the rest of your trip (or your life) with her! Wake up man!

BTG was met on my 3rd? trip, after sampling maybe upwards of 30 chicas in Havana. Instead of indulging in your fair share of 5 or 10 chicas in 6 days, you kept your numbers down and missed the boat. To be fair, as a newbie in cuba, you were likely blown away by the cubanas approach to sex. They really enjoy fucking and it shows. Perhaps you thought that 'X' really enjoyed fucking you more than the next guy? If so, those Havana cold showers should be taken to wake your ass up!

You state that a favorita is worth seeing again. True. But not if it keeps you tied down.

Example:
This past trip, I spent New Years Eve with my one of my favoritas (NippleRings). Great night. The next morning, her best friend shows up at the apartment to be with NR. I'm getting ready to start the New Year off with a bang, but I cannot possibly concentrate on nailing my favorita while her sexy 18 year old friend waits for us in the next room. I tell my novia to invite her friend to join us and she immediately responds "NO". What do you do now? With the help of HombreCito1 and others on the board who drill us with the latino machismo concept of "be the man", I light up a cigarette and tell my novia "No problema - tu e su amiga van - adios", or "hit the road". With a shocked look on her face, she raises an eyebrow, puts a hand on her lovely naked hip and lets her jaw drop. I took a long draw on my cigarette and just looked at her. You could feel the tension in the room. She then busts out into a smile and shakes her finger at me while walking to go get her friend. My New Year got off to a great start with the two of them ;)

This type of machismo behavior is foreign to me. Completely new. Unheard of. The session I had with these two was foreign to me as well. After 4 trips, my novia had a newfound respect for her gringo yuma. It came through in her performance. I'm not blowing my horn, but both these chicas had a respect for me that I could sense. I directed them around the bed and we all had a great time. That shit is priceless.

Davidd, you paid to join the board. What you do with the information is up to you. Have fun buddy.

DG

And the next beer is on me HC1

Davidd,

Fair warning, if you stay at the same casa the odds are that the leeches (excuse me I should have said touts) who directed you there the first time will find out that you are staying there. The coconut telegraph is awesome to see in action, especially when they have made easy money off you before. And didn't this casa owner tell you that "There are no oceanview casas around." Personally, I think that you are confusing a good raport with business providers ( Casa owner, touts and X) with friendship. You are paying these people, they are supposed to be nice to you!
When you get the chance watch a Latino (or Latina) anywhere when they are buying an item or service. They tend to have a commanding tone. (ie. It's my money and I am in charge here.) It's amazing to me how adopting this attitude improves the way I am treated in Latin America.

As for learning Spanish, I highly recommend the Pimsleur series which are on tapes or CD's. I pop them in the tape deck in my car and make use of the time normally wasted in this lousy Atlanta trsffic.

Good fortune to you, Pogo

(More red flags... great line Farsider)

DongGringo, I hate you even more after that last story. Please teach me everything you know.

But if she lubricates naturally and offers BBFS, doesn't that mean that she loves me?

DavidD--You came, you saw, you conquered, not necessarily in that order. Something tells me that your subsequent trips to Cuba will blow your mind, especially with the advice you got here. Can't wait to go myself. We won't be competing for the same chicas--I'd like to meet a few genuinely un-reformed bad horny teenagers.

damn DG..you have become hardcore on us...davidd..come to brasil and I will introduce you to DG's favorita!! she is really sweet...she will even care for you if you become sick....

Thanks for the story, DG. Seems like on my next trip, I should arrange to be in Cuba at the same time as you or Dooshbag, so I can watch true professionalism in action :-).

Pogo it was the tout who said there were no ocean view casas, not the casa owner. But nonetheless, I can see your point.

Anyone know how much an ocean view casa would run me? I caved at that point because I assumed one would be much more expensive anyway.

D

Layne perhaps it was the high fever, but I still have wet dreams about a blonde nurse sponge bathing me while waiting for my temperature to drop enough to climb aboard. What an angel. Speaking of doing best friends, how about your wife and mine together? Ever thought about that?

DG is just a product of his environment and the company he keeps....he he!

Sandman

Davidd. The "mistakes" you made are classic rookie mistakes. We all make them. I remember agonizing over whether the first puta I shacked up with was really in love with me, LOL. I would recommend one year plus of hard-core mongering without the slightest notion of attachment. See how they operate, even the seemingly sincere ones. See how manipulative they can be. Then decide if you want a "relationship" with one -- or even if one deserves to be your favorita.

hmmm dg..may have to look into that next week since you enjoyed her so much..

Layne you dog, if you're lucky enough to get the two of them together for a dupla, I'll expect some details. Have fun and tell my gal that her Leche Chocolate sends love. When are you in Rio?

Davidd:
She probably liked you, but was jaded. Dangerous combination.

Typical "First Visit" Sad story in Cuba. Actually if you're not a dick, you would likely find it hard to leave any fun, loving, non-North American attitude women in Cuba.

I have been there 6 times and will go another 2 times this year.

I am recently single and look forward to what lies ahead.

Does anyone have experience with Canadian Men marrying Cuban Women and either staying in Cuba or moving back to Canada?

Thanks for the feedback.

Wow. I never saw this trip report. I only went back after I read DavidD's Rio trip report. His Rio mistakes were nothing compared to the Cuba mistakes. Anyway dude you had fun and that is what matters. Badseed I thought offered the best advice.

The money mistakes aren't a big deal to me. It's the control that you gave the girl. To me it's also the kind of delusion that you had about the girl's true feelings for you. I'm not saying girls we meet this way can't have feelings for us. However, I've met several girls in the hobby that wanted a relationship and I can tell you the one thing they all have in common is they never want any money. In fact, they will not mention money. They wanted me to look at them as a person and not a transaction. I often times offered to give them money and had them refuse.

If you go back to Cuba it's ok to see that girl again but if she is going to treat it as a financial transaction then so should you. You can see her for a "session" and then see other girls as well. Be strong and don't be afraid to say NO once in a while.

Good luck.

Just rediscovered this "lost" classic by DavidD. I read this report many months before I went to Cuba, and somehow forgot about it until now, after returning from my first visit to Cuba. This is spectacular stuff -- a phenomenal report.

David... I finally got around to reading your infamous Cuba report.

First, I have to give you credit. Your balls must be the size of basketballs to go to Cuba alone on your first trip. I also have to give you credit for your writing style, and your photography skills.

However, after reading this report, I see a pattern in your Rio report. You make too many excuses for these girls and their actions when they are with you.

I give you credit for being so honest though. I hope you can get your game together before your next trip so that you can really experience something other than being treated like an ATM.

(Message edited by aldaron on August 18, 2003)