I am going to leave in the early morning tomorrow for the airport so I thought I might take some time now to conclude the report.

The conclusion is that there is no conclusion. You can make several trips to Pattaya over several years and never really get to "know" the place. Pattaya is probably one of the most diverse places I have encountered in my lifetime. In a little under a month I have met people from all over the world from very different backgrounds.

Heavy investment seems to be pouring into this region. Large cranes and partially completed buildings can be seen in the backdrop. A lot of money can be made in this place doing the right things, but I can also see where it can be lost by bad speculation and poor negotiation.

The fact is that in the next ten years at least 500 million people will be added to the Eastern Hemisphere. They all need a place to vacation and travel. Pattaya seems like that place. The Russians and Chinese seem to be taking advantage of Pattaya as evidenced by the Russian visitors to "Rock Island" and the long lines of Chinese tour busses. It definately does not seem as if Pattaya was deeply effected by the hard economic times. Every night I was out, it seemed crowded without any lack of action.

I believe this place would be an ideal retirement location or place to live for the right person. The "right person" would be someone who is savvy, street smart, full of common sense and shrewd. Someone who is used to negotiating and wheeling&dealing. Someone who is incredibly flexible and open minded.

This location would not be for all people though. In fact, I have noticed over the years of reading these types of message boards that most people start out well enough living or doing business in Pattaya, but then eventually disappear from the message board never to be heard from again. Usually no one reports back to the board that something went wrong and so they just disappear. Sometimes someone that knows them will come back on and reveal what really happened.

The women, obviously, need cash. Some are very good at getting it while others seem to hack along and eventually return to their home cities in Thailand. The majority of bar/go-go girls I met also derived income from doing things outside of the bar. A lot of them were what you might call hustlers or swindlers. Each woman I met seemed to have something else going on the side as evidenced by the activity on their cellphone. I found myself one day helping a woman open up her business. Some of the gogo ladies I saw working the disco or on the beach after their shift was up. These women are certainly much different in mindset then their Angeles City counterparts. Much more aggressive and out for cash.

Many Americans are used to taking the world at face value, believing what they see and rushing to judgement about people or issues. They will make the mistake of quickly judging Pattaya or the ladies in Pattaya. From what I have seen, there seems to be a lot more going on underneath the surface and much of what you see initially is an illusion. You may get told several different stories in Pattaya of the same issues, places or people and it will get confusing. For some guys who grew up within an urban setting, this is not shocking. For myself, I certainly encountered a lot of this "illusion" in the places I have lived. Im not shocked that a woman is telling me that I am the best looking guy in the world and then I see her out on the street tagging along with another guy the next day.

In regards to prices of service for the ladies, there are ways to bring down the price that I did not cover in the report for the safety of the ladies involved. I did not want the barowners reading this report and then firing the women involved. I will cover a few of those techniques without mentioning who was involved. One technique is to convince her to sneak out after her shift was up or to come to your room before hours. This way you skip paying the barfine.

There are many negotiating tactics to bring the prices down. You can go on google and find books on negotiation. I have been the owner of a business for the last 25 years where I would constantly negotiate. I am familiar with all of the ways a price can be negotiated. If you need to be told how to negotiate a price, then you should start reading some books or get out there into the world and get some practical experience. I certainly would never pay the first price presented.

I was impressed by the physical fitness of the retirees I met. Everyday around the beach, there are these retirees in their 50s-60s that look like they could make the cover of Mens Health. I am used to a different reality of going to funerals. Just last year, a 65 year old man I knew had a heart attack. This place could be used for life extension. If that 65 year old I knew had spent the last 5 years here, then he certainly would not have had that attack.

I have had a lot of fun learning about and experiencing Pattaya. I was looking around and had some ideas for my next venture which I might start here. I am one who enjoys and thrives when it comes to challenges. Living and doing business in Pattaya will probably be one of the most challenging ventures.

Here are some random thoughts from my last day.



There is a show called Pattaya People that is going 24 hours a day. One thing they do is tales from the Pattaya Police. They bring out a camcorder with the police or use the surveillance cameras you see all over Pattaya.

A few things I saw...

1. German tourist runs through Pattaya 3 times naked. They never really arrested this guy. They detained him 3 times and then finally called his embassy and relatives. They really could have arrested and made trouble for him, but they did the nice thing by contacting his family. They had video of him running through the streets each time.

2. Murder of a bargirl - Gruesome. They even showed the body.

3. Iranian tourists gets 60k baht stolen from Beach Rd hookups. They picked up some girls from Beach Rd, left them in the hotel room with their money while they went to the 7-11 and when they got back it was all gone.

4. French tourist mugged by street girl and pimp.

5. Armed robbery on a motorbike of bargirl.

6. Police re-enacting gold heist and hostage situation. It was cool to see the chief of police acting as the hostage negotiator talking over a bullhorn and dressed in full uniform complete with scrambled egg hat.

This one was my afternoon teazer from the Tahitian Queen 1.

Photos: Teazer - Tahitian Queen 248 249 250 251 252 253

I finally did my 2nd barfine with AEF from the Secrets. Normally the fine out of Secrets is 600 baht, but they will not let her leave unless you pay 1000. Its worth it though for her. Its not just about looks, but personality and she is totally sweet. She is hard to find as she is barfined most every night from the Secrets.

She left here last night asking me if I could be her boyfriend...she is not as innocent as she looks.;) All she needs is a few guys to fall for that routine and send her cash. She has her own place, her own motorbike and does very well for herself here when compared with other ladies. Maybe she has a few guys sending her cash.

As innocent as she looks, she is in her 30s.

Photos: Aef - Secrets 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267

I took her out to the Premiere Club on Soi 8 which is a Hookah Bar and also to Italiano on Walking Street.

Photo: Aef - Secrets 268

Cute girl, although she would look better in a Cubs cap

Anyone looks better in a Cubs hat -- except Milton Bradley !!

Portege

As much as I disagree with many of your observations- they were after all your observations and that I cannot argue with.

Your experiences certainly run counter to many of mine. Why ?? Who knows . Does not make either of our experiences invalid however.

So -- Is your next trip to AC or back to Pattaya ??

You have it must be said, just in the timespan of your report, become a good photographer. Some good composition and good use of depth of field.

Thannks for your report.

MM

How much did you spend on your trip?

I am eventually going to move to Jontiem and start a business.

One motivation for me is life extension. During the trip, I lost some weight and noticed my pants now seem loose. I also noticed some of the second stage of life folks are in much better shape here then in certain areas of the United States. I saw a few guys in their 50s who seemed to have no weight issues and generally very healthy.

I knew a man back where I lived who was 65 years old. One day, he seemed to be having some health trouble and then passed away in about 3 months. Before that time, he seemed fine.

This area of the world seems to be growing rather fast. I have not seen that much homeless and vagrancy issues as back in the United States. When I was at the Ontario Airport in 2008 taking a flight out, I noticed they had erected a tent city for the homeless. I noticed only 3 people sleeping on the street here. I saw a Thai couple sleeping on the beach, but I think they may have been doing that purposely. There was one man who seemed overly tan by the 7-11 near LK Metro and he was sniffing something. I got closer and could not tell if he was Caucasian or Thai. The sun had darkened his skin too much. There were no tent cities and some of the bar girls seemed to be living a better life then the people in the tents at the Ontario (California) Airport in the United States.

I was impressed by how little it could take to live. I saw a few nice condos priced around 5-8k baht a month. The condotel on Walking Street is 8500 a month. I wouldnt live near the bars though as it offers too much temptation. Discipline would be the key to making a living here practical.

I have a number of business ideas I developed from walking around and talking to people.

I will reiterate that I enjoyed reading this report as it was posted. You are entitled to all your opinions and actions.

From the beginning questions regarding monetary needs for your trip, you spoke like a potential "Cheap Charlie", but as your days moved along you ended up paying normal and even above normal prices for girls.

You seeked bargain accommodations , and realized you get what you pay for. There is nothing wrong with moving around , I have done it, but you obviously don't travel light either ( from photos)

The concept of meeting a girl after hours to avoid a bar fine has been around since the barfine itself was invented. Then again, I would rather get a girl when I want , not wait till 3AM to save $15.

Finally after your first visit to Pattaya, you are ready to open a business there. I wish you the best of luck and welcome to the group of those who have contracted "Thai Fever", for which there is no cure !

So.... How much did you spend in total for the month including girls, hotel, food, drinks, shopping, excursions, etc?

With regard to the report, while I may disagree or find fault with aspects of it -- you clearly spent a lot of time and effort. Thanks for sharing.

p.s. good improvement of the pictures as you progressed in the report. I would recommend learning how to adjust/control white balance as the next step.




(Message edited by donmarco on December 20, 2009)

Right now I am at the airport in BKK. I have some photos to upload.

I paid the following (in US Dollars):

Round-trip airfare on EVA Airlines- $850

Hotel-Nov 23rd to Dec 21st (Diana Inn and Secrets)- About $1000 or 35000 baht

Expenses (barfines, restaurant, etc.) About $3200

I brought $3200 in cash with me and I think I still have some packed away. I have a few 100 baht in my pocket left.

The entire trip cost me about $5000 for about 28 days. The costs could have been brought down in a few ways. I could have stayed in a condo. I found some ads on the internet and that probably would have brought the residential expense down to around $300. Staying in the condo would give me the luxury of making my own food.

In the report, I said the food was not very good. What I meant was that I was sick for about 5-7 days during the trip until I went to the pharmacy. I think by eating the food it made me sick as I am not used to bacteria in this region of the world. I should have went to the pharmacy sooner.

I discovered the Beach and the Disco a little later in the trip and that could have been used more effectively to bring down expense. A lot of the women told me that if they could not find a barfine during the time they were at the bar then they went to the Disco. When I went to the Disco, it was indeed filled with lots of unaccompanied women.

The truly hardcore cheap charlies would sit on the beach with some beer they purchased at the 7-11 just waiting it out for the best one to appear. There were rows of guys during the night that would patiently sit, talk, drink and laugh waiting for the best candidate to appear.

I knew the regulars on the Beach Rd after about a week because I would jog and walk several times up and down it for exercise each day. The regulars stood in the same places each time. The non-regulars were the bar and go-go girls that could not find a barfine.

Then there was Walking Street around mid-night where the bargirls would start to walk around after their shift looking for a new fine.

There are some women in the go-gos which could not be haggled down. They were not going to let AEF at the Secrets go for anything less then 1000 baht barfine, but they had women there for 400 baht barfine.

The women will always quote you 1500-2000 barfine for short-time, but they all can be haggled down to 1000 baht.

I noticed that when certain mamasons were present at certain go-gos the ultimate cost seemed to skyrocket. There is a tall mamason at the Living Dolls who literally robbed me. I knew she understood English, but she pretended to have some trouble. She gave me back my change, winked at me and then took a 100 for herself. She then ran into the back never to be seen again until I left. Then another time I was there she asked if I could buy a lady's drink for her. I said no and explained I only wanted to buy a drink for the lady. Then two drinks came, one for the mamason and then the other one for the lady.

I also noticed that hanging out by the women's apartments can score some cheap action. There were quite a few guys that I noticed hanging out in the restaurants and shops during the day by the lady's apartments. Some of them were able to score some of the ladies that were walking around. They would throw the lady a smile and then the lady would just introduce herself.

I guess the best way to score cheap action is to look for the rows of guys hanging out in random places. If there are guys hanging around some place for no reason, then that usually means they are waiting for the ladies to wonder by.

The ladies love to hang around the many hair salons and there are always small bars across the way. Throw the ladies a smile and introduce yourself as they exit.

Any subsequent trips for myself will definately be cheaper knowing what I know now. I would not go to Beach Rd though, but the discos as that seems to be a more popular place for the after-work ladies. Arm myself with a cellphone and then with each girl I meet build a network. network

You sure provided some good information.

Really appreciated your stories.

MM

(Message edited by majormajor on December 21, 2009)

I'm glad you had a great trip - early on, you were pretty critical of the Thai, and, as I recall, you believed that they didn't like Americans. It seems that after you got to spend some more time with them, your opinion changed quite a bit (at least, I would assume so, given the statement that you are going to move to Jomtien and start a business).

I don't want to be "Debbie Downer" but a little advice about your plan to move to Jomtien and start a business: learn some Thai and spend quite a bit of time researching all of it before you invest any significant sums into it. I know it seems like a great place when you are on vacation (I had the same thoughts as soon as I was back in the LA rat race - Hell, I even looked to see what opportunities there were for "ambulance chasers" over there!), but owning/running a business in a foreign country where you don't speak even a bit of the language is asking for trouble. Almost all businesses require some form of documentation -- contracts, incorporation, etc. In addition, there are immigration issues to consider. This documentation is going to be primarily in Thai, so, unless you have someone there that you can really trust, you are running a serious risk of being ripped off.

Let me clarify that I am NOT saying "don't do it" or even remotely suggesting that it is a bad idea -- I am merely saying to do even more research, investigation and planning into it than you would into starting a business in a state in which you do not currently live.

As the great John Wooden is credited with saying, "failing to plan is planning to fail."

Nice trip report, thanks for taking the time, it's been fun following your adventures.

$3200 for 28 days is $114 a day not including hotel or airfare.

I spent $140 a day not including hotel or airfare.

I pulled just 1 freelancer and the remaining girls were from ago-go's which added a bit to the expenses. Barfined just 1 girl per day but had multiple pops with some.

I also did quite a bit of bar hopping in ago-go's, getting some lap dances and tipping girls on stage.