With all of the talk about 'surviving' the long flight to Bangkok (BKK) and the rest of South East Asia (SEA), it occurs to me that there is a need for tips and information on dealing with the rigors of 14+hours flights.

Additionally, I keep reading about layovers, and how much they suck. The variety of air carriers used to get to BKK, and other SEA cities, result in an equal variety of possible layover experiences. Depending on your carrier, you may end up in Taipei, Seoul, Hong Kong, or Narita (Tokyo). (Yes, I realize that European travelers have yet more layover locations, but given that I'm from the US, I'm not familiar with these layover cities) Each of these locations offers a vision of a different country, as well as offering something different. (My plan is to address the layover issue in a subsequent posting.)

First let's address some considerations about your flight.

Setting up your reservations, your booking class and your seat assignment can make or break a trip. I'm not going to discuss one airline over another. Suffice it to say that most of the major carriers provide quality service, and everyone seems to have their own favorite.

Booking your reservation can be as easy or as complicated as you wish to make it. The on-line booking tools give you power once available only to travel agents. Then we have the travel consolidators who offer low priced fares, but with some restrictions, and usually with NO frequent flyer points. The key here is to examine the ENTIRE price. Airfare is only part of this equation. Will you earn frequent flyer miles for your trip? How long are your layovers? How much 'air time' is estimated for your trip? A $500 ticket LAX-BKK may sound like a great deal. BUT, if you factor in ZERO FF points, a 10 hour layover and a 28 hour total travel time, is it really that good a deal? I can't answer this question. It's up to each adventurer to answer for himself.

A general rule of thumb is that 'business' class is the way to go, IF you can swing it. There are two main ways to getting a 'business' class seat. 1. You pay the additional airfare. Or 2. You use frequent flyer points to get the upgrade. Some airlines charge very little to upgrade. As an example, EVA charges as little as $150 more for their 'Evergreen Deluxe' class. So, it's worth checking into the cost even if this is your first trip and you're going to have to pay for the upgrade. If you use FF points to get your upgrade, make sure that you keep track of the point charge, and MAKE SURE that you get the class upgrade applied to your frequent flyer points accumulation. (Most airlines give a fractional bump to the FF miles accumulated for flying in an upgraded class. More on FF programs later) "Business" class basically gives the traveler a 'First' class quality seat, with slightly less than 'First' class amenities. (i.e. Don't expect fuzzy slippers or eye shades like you get it 'First' class) 'Business' class travelers can also expect better food and drink selections, and maybe even free wine with dinner. (it all depends on the airline) Most of all, 'Business' class travelers can expect a 'better' type of surroundings. (fewer screaming kids, fewer seats per row, etc.) Is it worth the added cost? Again, each adventurer has to answer this question for himself. Personally, my answer is 'definitely.'

Tickets. Modern travel has made many of us used to using 'electronic tickets' for most domestic travel. For e-tickets all you need is your name and an ID. In the US or most of the 'Western World' e-tickets are just fine, and make travel much more convenient. However, when traveling abroad you should INSIST on a real paper ticket for travel. The last thing you want is to get to your layover city and then be told that the computer has no record of your continuing flight to BKK, or worse, the computer 'looses' your reservation for your return flight. With a paper ticket, you have OFFICIAL PROOF of your reservation, and most times this is enough to smooth the way to quick resolution of any reservation issues. Without that 'official' piece of paper, you might be up the creek for days. (We've all heard horror stories about this kind of thing.)

Seat Assignments. I, for one, will NOT accept a booking without an assigned seat. Knowing where I'll be sitting gives me just one less thing to worry about. I know going in that I'll get my fully reclining window seat. It also allows the traveler to know when he'll be boarding the plane, since most every airline boards based on class of service and row assignment. (This is unless you are a 'premium' frequent flyer member. More on this in a bit) For a long flight, there are a couple of things to be aware of when selecting your seat. First, and MOST importantly, DO NOT take a seat in FRONT of an exit row. These seats almost never fully recline (especially the window seat), and that is a real pain on a 14-hour flight! For those looking for the most legroom, you may look to sit IN an emergency exit row. (Again, make SURE that there is not an exit row right behind you, as many aircraft designs have two exit rows right together) Two other things to be aware of with exit rows. First, the bulkhead next to the window seat WILL get COLD during the flight. (I usually get a couple of extra blankets and set them up against the bulkhead to insulate me from the cold) The other thing is that, more often than not, the tray table folds up out of a fixed armrest, and the armrest will NOT fold up, as it will with most other seats. This creates some potential issues at meal times and with computer use. This set up also prevents you from spreading out even if the seat next to you is empty. But, as with everything, it's all up to the individual traveler what works best for him. Is more leg room worth more, or would you rather be able to swing up the armrest and spread out between two seats? Once again, it's up to the individual traveler.

I've alluded to Frequent Flyer programs, and it's time to address them in more detail, now. As previously stated, it MAY make sense to keep with a single carrier, or alliance of carriers, to take advantage of the FF points and the perks that go along with them. Each airline has it's own program, and the rules differ. Most of the programs are also part of one of the major 'frequent flyer alliances' which allow points to transfer between different airlines. (As an example, Cathay Pacific and American are in the same alliance) You may also find that some airlines 'code share' travel. This means that though you buy your ticket on one airline, you actually travel on another. (example: American doesn't fly from LAX to BKK, but provides 'code share' service via EVA. But, if one books the trip on EVA, the FF points can transfer to the America FF program via the alliance relationship.) Is it better to buy the ticket on the code share, or on the 'real' carrier? It depends. You have to ask about the particulars. Also, as I mentioned, if you do fly 'Business' class, make sure you get the extra points for the upgraded travel. (American gives a 50% mileage bonus for 'Business' class travel) AND, make sure that you check out the FF bonus programs. (As an example, Cathay Pacific has a 25,000 bonus for travel from Montreal to HK and back. If you're in, say, Chicago, it might make sense to take advantage of this type of promo. 25,000 miles is half of an economy class round trip ticket in Cathay's FF program. If you add in the actual miles for your trip, plus your bonus miles for upgraded 'Business' class travel, plus the bonus miles for being a 'gold or platinum' member of their frequent flyer program, you've got all the points needed to cover your next trip) I bring this all up, because when properly used, Frequent Flyer programs can make the over all cost of travel cheaper. In fact, one can use FF programs to make the over all cost of travel lower than it would be by searching for the lowest airfare for each trip. (In the Cathay Pacific example, the traveler essentially gets two trips for the cost of one 'business class' trip. You can do the math.)

There are other perks to the FF programs. As you build miles, and miles build QUICKLY with Trans-Pacific travel, one will get 'premium' membership in the FF program. Most airlines offer 'First' class check-in to all 'premium' members. Most also offer preferred seating assignments. Which means that the 'middle' seat next to you is blocked when you make your reservation, so that seat will not be used until all of the other seats are assigned. A majority of airlines also offer pre-boarding to their 'premium' FF members. This allows you to board with the 'first' class passengers, and gives you the opportunity to get all of your carry on bags stowed ahead of the other passengers. You'll really appreciate this little perk, as "the masses" are 'fighting' for room in the overhead bins while you settle into your seat and arrange your travel gear. Many carriers also offer complimentary or low cost, use of their 'executive lounges' in the major airports. Ask if there is a way to accelerate your frequent flyer membership to 'premium' membership. (Many carriers have this opportunity available) The key to FF programs is to use them, and ASK about perks and privileges.

I'll share my personal strategy for long flight bookings. (note: I logged more than 100,000 business miles last year, and that was in addition to my 'personal' travel, so I've got my own system down pretty well.) I always try to book a window seat in the forward part of the cabin, but NOT facing the bulkhead, and NOT in front of an exit row. This gives me a 'wall' to lean up against as I sleep. It also keeps me away from those damn service carts that ALWAYS seem to bang into my arm whenever I end up sitting on an aisle. I always make sure that I'll have a power outlet available to me for my laptop. If it's a daylight flight, I'll shoot for the south facing side of the aircraft, so that I get the benefit of sunlight against the plane. (This is not a "hard -n- fast" rule, but it's nice to have the warmth of the sun and access to some natural light) When booking, I always ask for any bonus programs, or special fares, and I try to offer some flexibility for departure dates and time, and departure airports. (Being in CA gives me options for leaving from a number of airports, and this often leads to substantial savings and/or FF bonus miles) I usually order a 'low sodium' meal, which generally gets me better food, and no MSG. And, I am sure to pick up my ticket at least a week prior to departure. (Remember, I use paper tickets for ALL travel abroad)


Okay, so you're booked and have your ticket in hand. Now what? What does one do to prep for a Trans-Pacific flight? What do I bring on board with me?

Given that many people seem to have trouble sleeping on airplanes, I'll include a little info to aid with this issue. (Please note: I have NO problem sleeping on an airplane with NO help or drugs, so the following info is from other people who I know and trust. In some cases, my sources for this info are health care professionals) Most people have heard about Melatonin, and it seems to work well for many travelers. It requires no prescription from a doc, and it's pretty inexpensive. Melatonin should be taken for a few of days PRIOR to travel. Follow the directions on the label for dosage. Also, take it as much ahead of bedtime as you will on your flight. The idea is to get your body used to the additional Melatonin and adjust your bio-clock to YOUR desires. Another well-known sleep aid is the prescription medication, Sonata. (http://www.sonatasleep.com/ ) This does require you to get a script from your doctor, and is a little stronger than Melatonin, but it seems to have a pretty good reputation for effectiveness WITHOUT causing any lasting drowsiness over the next few days. I've also heard guys suggest Valium and Halcyon, but I have some concerns about the safety of both of these drugs, AND both have reputations for causing long term sluggishness over the few days following their use. (Not effects I want on my trip to the land of fun and smiles)

I've also read a LOT of info about getting a few drinks and using booze as a sedative to aid in sleeping on the flight. This is a BAD idea. I repeat, GETTING DRUNK on an airplane is a BAD IDEA. The alcohol will tend to dehydrate you and that is the LAST thing you want, especially going to a tropical destination. The altitude at which you are flying accentuates this dehydration effect. (Remember, the cabin is only pressurized to about 7,000-8,000 feet) Drinking on a flight also increases the possibility of circulatory problems both during the flight, and once in Thailand. (Again it's the dehydration issue) This dehydration WILL often lead to the worst hangover known to mankind. I suggest that you stay sober on the flight, and save your drinking time for the LoS.

My advice is to bring munchies with you so that you know you'll have some snacks that you'll enjoy. Licorice, gum drops, raisins, nuts, pretzels, tortillas and the like take up just a little room, but offer a nice snack of familiar food. (The sugar and salt in the snacks will also help keep you hydrated as they help your system to retain water.) I also bring two 1.5 liter bottles of water that I freeze the night/day before. (I want them frozen solid, so that it takes 6+hours to melt on the flight. This way I have plenty of cold water to drink.) Sometimes, I'll add some powdered drink mix to one of the bottles prior to freezing. I have neoprene sleeves for both bottles, and strap them to the face of my roll on bag. (You can also simply wrap them in hand towels to keep the outside dry) The key here is that the experienced traveler knows that dehydration is one of the biggest problems on long flights, and it can be risky to depend on the airline to serve enough water to deal with the potential problem. (I once learned this the hard way, when the plane ran out of water 2/3 of the way into a 12 hour flight)

What else does one need for the flight? A couple of good books to read, a laptop with a couple of computer games and favorite MP3s (if you're so inclined) CDs & DVD movies (remember you can get more of these in BKK) I also download the latest version of Stickman's Travel and News web pages for last minute reading on the flight. (http://www.chopsticks.net/stickman/) I bring standard headphones with me. Though, I've been tempted to get the new Bose noise-canceling headset. (The head set usually will work with the on plane sound system as well as with my computer.) I, also have an inflatable neck pillow that I bring with me, and I make sure to snag two blankets as soon as I get aboard the plane. And, I always bring my Palm Pilot with two sets of extra batteries. This is my basic 'life support' system for the flight.

Additionally, at a minimum, I bring on board with me ALL of my meds, my shaving kit, a small towel and at least two extra days of cloths in my roll-on bag. (Usually, I can get everything I'm bringing with me for the trip into my two carry-on bags)

Before getting to the airport. I usually eat a light meal prior to getting to the airport. Low carbs and low bulk are what I mean by 'light'. A Club Sandwich is pretty standard for me as a pre-flight meal. I've found that I can generally get this on the way to most airports. (Though this particular meal CAN be a challenge to get abroad.) REMEMBER this is BEFORE I get to the airport. (Why pay $15 for a crappy airport sandwich?) This also gives me at least a couple of hours for the food to settle before flight time.

So, now everything is booked, reserved, packed and ready to go. Now what? I'll walk you though how I do things. I always make sure to get to the airport AT LEAST two hours ahead of my scheduled departure time. This gets me to the airport in plenty of time to get through check in, and security screening without having to stress missing my flight. Additionally, checking in early allows time to address any issues with flight reservations. I always check my return booking when I check in for my outbound flight. (Again, preventative measures. It's easy to check this while you're at the check-in counter.) If I'm checking baggage for the flight, I do so early, and double check that it will pass through to my final destination. And, I double-check the tags to be sure that they indicate my final destination. If you're going to have an extended lay over at your intermediate destination, now is the time to set up how you're going to spend your time. Many airlines offer hotel rooms and/or tours in the layover city. If you plan on taking advantage of these services, now is the time to confirm your desires with the ticketing agent. Taking care of any layover plans at check-in means that everything should be ready for you when you land. If you've got a shorter layover, you will want to confirm your freedom to leave the terminal and/or the airport, and you'll want to confirm the departure time from your layover city. (Nothing would suck more than getting stuck in Taipei because you missed your connection to BKK)

Once done at the check in counter, I proceed directly to the security checkpoint. The whole point of getting to the airport early is to get past any hurdles that may delay my getting on my flight on time. Security is one of these choke points. Depending on the departure time, security can be a breeze, or a nightmare. It all depends on how busy they are. Oh, and just because security isn't busy, does NOT mean that passing through will be easy. It always seems that these people make it a point to be pricks by doing more hand inspections during the slowest times. (One way to help avoid this is to keep your 'Premium' FF membership card and/or luggage tag in PLAIN VIEW as you enter the security checkpoint area. Keep the membership card with your passport and ticket. The concept here is that if you're a 'big time' frequent flyer it's not likely that you're a security risk worthy of a hand inspection.)

Once in the 'secure' part of the terminal, it's generally best to proceed directly to your gate. If you are required to do a gate check-in, do it now. If not, take the opportunity to say 'hello' to the gate agents. Ask what time they plan on beginning pre-boarding. (This is especially important information if you will be boarding with the 'first' class pre-boarding group.) The gate agents can be your best friends if there is an issue with your boarding or your seat assignment. (I've had my seat 'double booked' and I'm sure that I got the first class upgrade offer because I'd taken the time to be nice to the gate agents at check-in and to the flight attendants upon boarding.) Once fully checked in with the gate agent, feel free to wander around for a bit. Pick up any last second items you may have forgotten. (Did you bring a newspaper with you?) Then, find a seat to settle in prior to boarding. I like finding a seat where I can see the plane getting serviced, and where I have a clear walk to the boarding area of the 'Jetway'. By getting to the gate early, I ensure myself the pick of seating in the waiting area. I normally get to the gate area an hour to an hour and a half prior to departure.

I'm sure that there are a number of people who are wondering why I get there so early. My plan is to make my departure as stress free as possible. By getting there early, I avoid the panic and stress of running late for my flight. True, I usually end up 'killing' an hour in the terminal area, but on those occasions that there is some issue with my check in, or security screening, that extra time gives me plenty of time to deal with any issues without having to stress. Besides, most international flights begin boarding 30 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time, so I really end up having only a half hour, or so, to 'kill'.

My pre-flight ritual takes up part of this 'extra' time. Since I know when the gate agents are going to begin pre-boarding, I make quick 'head call' about 15 minutes prior to pre-boarding. I also always take a couple of aspirin as I come out of the rest room. The aspirin helps with any little aches I may have prior to the flight, and it helps keep my blood thinned down so as to fight any risk of clotting problems.

As pre-boarding is called, I 'rack up' my bags and head to the queue for the Jetway. The goal here is to settle into line right behind the 'first' class passengers. I like to get aboard as early as possible, so that I can test out the power outlet and the in-seat headset plug, and still have time to address any problems that may appear. (I once had to negotiate for a 're-seat' due to a failing power outlet in my seat. Because, it was identified early, I was able to move to another seat before the other passengers were even beginning to come aboard. I had no intention of flying for 12 hours without access to my laptop. And, again having been friendly with the crew, plus a few minutes extra time gained by pre-boarding, allowed for a smooth change out of seat assignments.) Once I'm sure everything is working, I can unpack my 'goodies' and my water bottles and stick them in the seat back pocket, as I shut down and repack my laptop prior to departure. (All airlines require electronics to be unplugged from the seat outlets and turned off before take-off and landing.) By now, my roll-on is safely stowed in the over-head bin, and my laptop case/overnight bag is under the seat in front of me.

As the other passengers are getting situated and seated, I usually take time to flip through the in-flight entertainment guide to see what's going to be available from the airline. As I check out the movies and music selections, I'll scan to a channel that sounds like what I want to listen to at that moment. (Usually, I pick a jazz channel, if one is available) This time also gives me a chance to match up the guide with what's actually available on board, and if they don't match up, I can ask the flight attendant about it prior to departure. The other thing that I ALWAYS do is to count the rows to the TWO nearest emergency exits, and I read the emergency safety card. Sure, I personally have read the damn thing enough to have it memorized, but I want to be SURE that I know the procedure for this particular aircraft. (There are slight variances between even the same plane, but those owned by different airlines, so I pay attention. If there IS an emergency there is no time to read the card, then.) Oh, and one other safety tip, do NOT remove your shoes until the flight is well into it's climb to cruising altitude. You want those feet covered in the event of an emergency during take off.

Once at altitude, go ahead and get comfortable. Kick off your shoes. (Out of courtesy, please keep your socks on during the flight.) I usually wear a polo shirt and dockers when I travel, so comfort is pretty much assured. I also bring along a pullover sweatshirt, so that I have something to wear if it gets cold late in the flight. As the flight attendant comes by, make sure that you ask him/her to wake you for meal service. (Or, not to wake you as you desire.) Forgetting to do this can result in a missed meal, or unwanted wake up call. Either of which may make you most unhappy.

By now, you should be able to pretty much feel how you want to deal with the first part of the flight. For most people, it's a question of staying awake and keeping busy between meals by watching movies, reading or using your laptop, vs. sleeping in the early part of the flight. The choice is yours to make, and there is no 'right' answer. My advice is to sleep if you're flight leaves late at night, and stay awake if you have a daytime or early evening departure. Trying to fight your body's natural rhythm is usually a loosing battle. Further, I'd advise you to stay up through at least the first meal service, IF that meal will be served during the first couple of hours of your flight.

If you're going to sleep after your meal, take your sleeping aid BEFORE your meal. Once you and your seating neighbors are done with your meals, (climbing over people who are still eating is VERY un-cool) I HIGHLY recommend that you get up and wander around the plane for a bit. Just walking up and down the aisle will help to work out the kinks and get your blood circulating up out of your legs. Remember, I'm not talking about some 'power walk' here, just enough motion to get things moving. While you're up, visit the flight attendants in the galley and get a class of ice water, or soda. You want to be drinking enough fluid so that your urine is clear as opposed to dark yellow. If you find that your urine is very yellow, you need to increase your water consumption. The other tip off that you're not drinking enough is if you find that you don't need to visit the head for several hours. You want to be drinking enough so that you need 'to go' with your regular frequency. (At least every three hours) It's pretty easy to deal with the hydration issue during the flight, and it will pay vast dividends once you've landed in your tropical paradise.

As you return to your seat, I'm betting that you'll find that you feel better for having walked around, even though it wasn't very strenuous or very far. My suggestion is that you take a walk at least four times during the 'average' 12-14 hour flight. The idea is to keep your muscles from cramping, and to get your circulation going every so often.

Okay, so if you've read this far, I'm sure, that you're either thinking that this StrikeEagle guy is NUTS, or you've found something of value written in this article. I'm hoping that it's a case of the later. Though you would not be wrong if you are thinking the former. No matter, I hope that this has been worth your time to read, and I hope that you'll give feed back.

If there is interest, I'll continue with info on surviving the layover, and I promise some detailed info and links for each of the major layover airports for the US to SEA traveler.


Humbly Submitted,

StrikeEagle

StrikeEagle,

Holy ****!

I think that qualifies as useful content.

I believe your post is another example of why the internet, discussion groups, and this site, are so great.

I will not be making such a flight any time real soon, but I also have no intention of checking out before I do. So thanks.

Eunuch

FF miles do not acrue if you use FF miles. If you upgrade with FF miles on United, American, Delta or Northwest from coach to business or first class you do not get the extra miles for travelling in business/first. I often upgrade as I am a premier/gold/platinum member of several airlines and I have never got those extra ff miles.
Note If you are going to Singapore DO NOT take any chewing gum with you.

694me,

I've upgraded on several occasions, and always received my 'bonus miles'. (note: this has always been on American) As I said, each airline has it's own set of rules, so others may not do this. And, it IS possible that I've experienced good luck with this 'bonus'. If they told me that my upgraded travel didn't qualify based on the rules of the program, I'd accept that. But, I'll take what I get. And, I will ALWAYS ask. If there is one thing I've learned about frequent flyer programs it's that you have to ask questions to gain the most benifits.

On the subject of chewing gum, why do you say not to take it to Singapore? Just wondering.


StrikeEagle

Singapore is a clean city by government order. Gum is actually illegal. The dont fine you but they give you a hard time especially going through customs if they see you chewing it.
On my last upgrade from coach to first on American (SD to Seattle) when I got my miles there was no first bonus.

Interesting stuff about gum and Singapore. I don't chew gum very often, but it's still good info to know.


StrikeEagle

Strike Eagle:

Hey, you certainly answered my question about what to do on the long flight to BKK - just bring along your post on how to survive, and read it, that'll kill most of the time on the flight.

Strike Eagle, either you are a major anal uptight person or someone who totally has their act together. I'll go for the second. Excellent report and one worth saving.

All joking aside, one of the primary reasons I have not gone to either SEA or Europe (I have the miles and then some) are for the hassles that you describe. I go absolutely bonkers if I don't get my 8 hours and even with the prescription sleeping pills that I take I still wake up constantly during the night. I read these posts from guys who do a 20+ hour flight with no rest and who hit the streets running for 48 hours of marathon sex with disbelief.

Hey, what do you think of the seat by the window directly behind the emergency exit row? It may be a 3 seater but you always get a huge space in front of you.

Tight Fit,

I personally like the seat BEHIND the exit row. You're right about there Usually being a little more let room, but without the hassles of the exit row seats. If you're not bumping to Business Class, this is a good way to go. And, if you're lucky, the middle seat will be empty for your flight. (Again, a 'perk' of being a Premium FF program member is the blocked middle seat)

On your insomnia issue, you might look at doing a Melatonin and sleeping pill mixer. TALK WITH YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT THIS, before trying it!! But, I do know a couple of people who do use Melatonin with a 'lite' sleeping pill. (I don't know what you take, and I'm not a medical professional qualified to give that kind of advice, anyway.) One other thing that you might look into is taking a 'nature CD' with you for your sleeping time. I personally use a Thunderstorm CD to isolate myself from the rest of the plane as far as sound goes. The rain pattern and the light thunder deaden the other sounds around me, and pretty much blend in with the jet and air flow noise in the cabin.

Don't let your concerns about travel stress or sleep deter you from exploring the rest of the 'hobbyist' world. There is a LOT of Sanuk (Thai for Fun) out there. Given proper planning, the travel can be pretty stress free.

In my next installment, I'll cover how to use your layover time to your best advantage.


StrikeEagle

TightFit/SE,

I also use the window seat behind the bulkhead row. The bulkhead row often leaves no where to support your feet/legs, which makes me uncomfortable. Additionally, exit rows often have unmovable arm rests.

The row behind the exit row has a little more room usually. You can curl up against the window and/or support a leg in the space along the seat in front of you and it's window space.

I use earplugs. I also put a shirt or something over my head. This can get a little warm so I open the air vent. The white noise of the air combined with the plugs blocks out most everything and I drift off with no pills except a few iubuprofin.

Pretty fuckin anal in my own right.

Gitano

I thought I would pass on another tip that I have used in Latin America. You can get award tickets on Taca with you AA points. They don't come cheap, but for a last minute switch they can come in handy. As an example, last winter I wanted to change destinations from San Jose, CR to San Salvador, El Salvador. The current prices of the tickets made a straight ticket switch very painful. The TACA (SJO-SAL) flight was also at $500. I used the TACA award strategy (30,000 points) and it worked out reasonably well. I don't recommend this as it's a bit of a pain, but if you get in a pinch it might be your best option.

StrikeEagle

Good info:

I use most of the same stratagies myself.

did you ever get stuck in a seat that the paneling next to you vibrates/ squeeks annoyingly? ( really bugs me) still have not found a way to deal with it other than changing seats if possible.

I find cathay pacafic the best layover for business class, really nice lounge, showers, food.
(and some isolation from other ppl, big plus for me)

also, from hkg to bkk is an easy flight, sleep most of the time from lax to hkg. so the few hours to bkk go quickly, and arrive about lunch time, so the remainder of the day helps get on schedule.


being able to sleep on the first flight is the best way to go ( for me anyway)


I didn't know EVA would take AA ff miles, I'll have to look into this next time, although, I still think cathay pacafic ( business class) is better tha eva delux or their business class ( I took both, and did not see much diff from eva delux and their business)( in their business class my carry on bag got "stuck" in the window bin next to my seat. a bit of a hassell.)


I took NW several times, and swore it off ( when i was paying for it), but last time i got a ff first class ticket, still nothing special compaired to some of the asian air lines.
( this nov. I got a nw business ff ticket, so I'll see how it goes). I have a life membership to the NW lounge, but rarely use it, as the others are better ( IMHO) Seems to me the NW lounge in narita is a bit of a hassell to access, has this changed recently?

About carrying water with me, I have been lucky getting all the water I request on the planes, ( and putting a few bottles in my bag in the lounge b4 or between the flights)

I can agree about alcohol on the planes, the few times I took the free drink, I did feel a little
"crappy" later. save ur drinking for land ( and with ur new found friends)

I also reccomend laying off the booze at least 48 hrs b4 flying back, I feel much better for it.
( did not follow my advice a few times and regretted it very much so)

As you said, being able to pre-board with a Buss ticket, or pre-fered card is really a plus.

several times I see the ppl in economy behave like they have never flown b4 ( maybe true) and scramble, pushing, shoving to get on like the seats may be all gone or something. not to mention all the weird shaped stuff they try to cram in the overhead bin.

I find my carryon bag ( nylon, flexable like a small duffel bag) is great, all my stuff is at my feet when I need it, no need to mess with the overhead bins.

I also find sometimes if I wait in my seat till all the "cattle heard mentality" ppl get off the plane it is better. funny how as soon as the plane gets near the gate they can't wait to stand up and wait
( sometimes for several minutes) for the doors to open.

One thing I would like to share:

some time ago, the plane I was on ( Nw7) had a problem leaving SEA/tac, and went back.

spent some time on the ground b4 they found they could not repair it easily and announced we should get off the plane and get rooms at the red lion ( they were paying of course).

I got to the curb shuttle area, and noticed all 300++ ppl waiting for the free shuttle ( about 12 at a time)
so i hopped a cab, spend about $6 and got to the red lion inn b4 the first batch.

The reception ppl at red lion already knew of the situation, gave me a room and a voucher for dinner.

they told me when the flight was ready to continue, we would all be called in time to get back ( by the shuttle I figured).

when I got my room, took a shower, went down for my diner, I noticed there were still ppl arriving on the shuttle ( about 2 hrs later)

I got back to my room, called NW reservations and asked to be booked in the flight the following day.
( not the one they were "repairing).

they did it no hassell:

the next morining I was tuning in my key, the staff told me I missed the "fun" as the call came in about 3 am the plane was repaired, and all were "shuttled" back to meet a departure of 4:30 am.
( they must have brought in a few more shuttles)

anyway, I got in the afternoon ( NW7) flight.
( noticed lots of empty seats also)

when I got to narita, I noticed some of the ppl from the orig flight still in the waiting area ( and they looked pretty pittiful/tired) I did not have the heart ( or nerve) to tell them I just got there.

so, if you are in this situation, don't follow/settle for what they offer you, just a phone call can make ur life/travel much more plesant.


Keep up this thread, I am sure we all can learn some valuable tips from it.

sonambin yote nai?

Good thread. Keep it going.

Another question for the frequent fliers. After a certain number of hours I find myself basically vibrating. It usually takes a night of rest before I feel ok again. I typically sit slightly back behind the wings. Are some parts of a jet quieter than others or vibrate less? Besides the first class which I only see as I walk by.

Tight_Fit

I have the same "sensation" after flying for several hours.

I find closer to the front of the plane is a smoother ride.

For me, getting to Bkk ( or wherever) early in the day, and staying up till my normal sleep time seems to put me on schedule quickly.
( if that is possible the first nite in bkk, and not keeping going till the next nite )


being able to sleep on the longest part of the trip seems to help a lot also.

The tough part ( sleep and psycologically) is comming back and being at work for the first few days. ( tough to hide the smile).

I think it is best to get better seats/service class. tourist class seats are just no good on long flites. Its no fun to arrive feeling crappy and have to wast a few days getting over it.

I did find temezepam ( sp?) lets me sleep easily on the flight, and also, seems to blank out any feelings of boredom ( a real killer ).

I feel fine by the time I reach bkk. do not seem to have any after effects.

I am looking foreward to Strikeeagle's next installment on what to do during layovers.

kai quai

Your layover city is fast approaching. The flight crew is coming around to collect the last of the rubbish from the flight, as they make sure that everyone has their "tray tables and seat backs in the full upright and locked position." You are now facing the part of the trip that everyone seems to loath; "the layover."

With luck, you've managed to get at least a little sleep during the Trans-Pacific part of your journey. If you've followed even a few of the ideas I included in my earlier report, I'd suspect that by the time you arrive in your layover city, you've managed a minimum of 5 hours of sleep. Perhaps it was not the best quality sleep that you're used to getting at home, but it's a hell of a lot better than the poor guy who's jammed into the middle seat three rows behind you.

Let's face it, you've been stuck in this airplane for airplane for the last 12-14 hours with a couple of hundred people. By now, you're sick of sitting, sick of being confined to the small space of the airplane cabin, and just want OFF THE DAMN PLANE! But, to what will you disembark?

Layovers come in a variety of shapes, sizes and satisfaction levels. Mostly the airport at which you're landing determines the "shape" of your layover. Much of your satisfaction has to do with your level of preparation, and knowing what you are going to do with your time on the ground. Most of the International Airports at which you are likely to land for your layover are BIG, but many also will allow you to leave the airport for the hours of your layover, thus making the area available to you much bigger. The key to everything, the secret to your being satisfied, or at least placated, with your layover is knowing what your options are, and having a plan in mind as you get off the plane.

The planning of your layover really begins with your flight selection. Depending on the airline, you may be facing a layover of a couple of hours, or a layover that takes up the better part of a 24-hour day. Depending on your thinking, you may want a short layover or a long one. There is no 'right' answer to this. Some guys view the layover as an opportunity to check out another "destination city." While others view it purely as a chance to get off the plane for a few of hours. If your main goal is to get to your final destination as quickly as possible, you owe it to yourself to make SURE that your flight has as short a layover as possible. But, DO NOT make the mistake of making your conection layover less than two (2) hours long, as you do NOT want to miss that connecting flight! If you'd like to take a few hours to explore an intermediate destination, then plan an extra long (read 24 hour) layover for your flight. By way of example, Cathay Pacific has flight itineraries from LAX to HKG (Hong Kong) that involve layovers ranging from 2 to 23 hours. The same goes for American/EVA with their layovers in TPE (Taipei). JAL (Japan AirLines), NW (Northwest) and ANA (All Nippon Airways) all have layovers that range from 4 to 22 hours at NRT (Narita). Asiana and KAL (Korean Airlines) offer the option of a layover in either SEL (Seoul) or the new Incheon Airport (IIA And, yes it IS spelled Incheon.), and they range anywhere from a couple of hours to 25 hours. (Note: The International Airport facilities in Korea are being transitioned from the Older SEL airport to the brand new IIA airport. IIA officially opened in March 2001, and all international flights will eventually be transitioned to the new airport.) As you can see, the options are pretty vast. Shoot, if you don't want to layover in Asia, United allows you to do your layover at the Seattle-Tacoma airport, with direct service from SEA/TAC to BKK from there. Still, you have to figure out what it is that you want to do with the hours you have on the ground.

Just so you, the reader, can follow my thinking, I'm going to break this into a few sections. First, we'll look at the short time (2-4 hour) layover where you don't have the to do a lot of 'off terminal' exploring. Then we'll look at the options you have if you're on the ground for 8-12 hours. Since, again, it is my impression that the members of the 'adventurer' community are more focused on gettting to their final destination as quickly as possible, and in the best shape possible, I'm going to forgo examining the options for a long (24+ hour) layover in this report.

Since most 'adventure travelers' are anxious to get to their destination, I'm going to presume that most of our community will choose to make the layover as short as practical. This type of layover can also be the hardest to deal with, because you really don't have the time to do very much, yet the prospect of just sitting in one of those uncomfortable plastic chairs is NOT very inviting. Fortunately, armed with options and information you won't have to suffer this kind of sad fate.

Here is a list of the major Asian hub airport lounge facilities as portrayed on the airport web sites:

HKT (Hong Kong) http://www.hkairport.com/eng/facilities/lounges/lounges_main_l7.htm
IIA (Seoul) http://www.airport.or.kr/index2.htm
NRT (Narita/Tokyo) http://www.narita-airport.or.jp/airport_e/guide/map/index.html
SIN (Singapore) http://www.changi.airport.com.sg/ (click on 'Airport Facilities')
TPE (Taipei) http://www.cksairport.gov.tw/E/e1.htm

If you are a frequent flyer, and are a premium member of your airlines frequent flyer program, you most likely will be able to take advantage of the airline lounge facilities. When you book your trip, ask if you are eligible for access to your airline's lounge facilities. Often you can gain access for free, or for a very small fee. ($20 or less) Some airlines, American as an example, are including free access to their Admirals Club with the purchase of a round trip ticket to the Far East. One of the best lounges is Cathay Pacific's facility at HKT. "The Wing" is considered by many to be the premier airline lounge in Asia, if not the world, with reading rooms, personal living spaces, two bars, a noodle bar, showers and a day spa, most any traveler can find a way to pass the time in comfort. Remember that Cathay is part of the 'OneWorld Alliance', so AAdvantage Gold, Platinum and Executive Platinum members can gain access to the Cathay lounge. (For details on 'The Wing' and a virtual tour, go to: %2C00.html,http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/airport/lounges/0,,,00.html )

The key here is to ASK about access to the airport lounge. You'd be amazed at just how much access and service you can get simply by asking for it. You might have to pay a few dollars, but $20 for a soft comfy lounge seat in the airport reading room with access to a shower may be WELL worth the small fee.

Other "free" options are also available. Do you have a Diners Club card in your wallet? If so, you have FREE access to their airport lounge in over 70 airports around the world. (For locations and details visit: http://www.dinersclub.com/airport.cfm ) As an aside, Diners also has a good 'World Traveler' info page at: http://www.dinersclub.com/news.cfm . If you're not a Diners member, you might want to consider joining just for the trip. Diner's Club is generally well accepted in Asia, and the annual fee is $80. So, even if you Only use it for access to the airport lounge on a single trip, you're paying $40 per lounge visit. Depending on your situation, it might be worth the money. I understand that America Express has lounge agreements in many cities as well. (I do not have personal experience with this, so I can't pass along specifics. If you have information on this, PLEASE post it, or e-mail me)

In addition to the airport lounges, most Asian hub airports have special 'pay to play' facilities.

In Hong Kong, there is the Plaza Premium Lounge. (http://www.pbc-asia.com/premium/hkairpor.htm) Open an hour before the first flight of the day until an hour after the day's last departure, the Plaza Premium Lounge, represents a unique concept in airport lounges, in that it caters to all passengers. This new publicly available airport lounge is of particular use for anyone in transit and in need of some relaxation and privacy between flights, regardless of which airline or class of service they're flying. The Lounge and Business Center are located in the West Hall at the entrance to the airline lounge level near gate 41. You may take the APM (Automated People Mover) shuttle or moving walkway and follow the "Common Use Lounge" signs. For an entrance fee of about $32US, visitors can stay for up to two hours and have access to all the facilities. The Plaza Premium offers luxurious sofas and armchairs for those who want to relax. There's a specially designed area for anyone needing to work on the go. (Yeah, I know, who's working on 'holiday', but the reality is that often we find ourselves dealing with last minute urgencies from work.) The lounge's business center offers desktop computers are tapped into the Internet and e-mail. Access to the Reuters information network is also available. There are also phone booths equipped with data jacks and IDD capabilities, while laptop-toting passengers who prefer not to work can recharge their computer batteries. Those who wish for nothing more than to relax before their flight can lounge in the airy entertainment area. Providing the background music are individual modern stereo systems and compact discs that offer everything from classical to jazz to modern pop. Or, you can catch up on the latest movies with the continuous DVD system. CNN news and a bevy of international newspapers and magazines are also available. The more unusual facilities at the Plaza Premium include massage chairs, a music appreciation center, video and board games. There are also hot shower facilities with massage jets. As far as food and beverages services go, with its own kitchen and chef, the Plaza Premium lounge dining area offers a menu more extensive than found in most airline lounges. A full buffet or hot and cold Asian and Western items are available morning, noon and night. The Plaza Premium Lounge also fills the role of a business center, offering all the services and facilities of an office away from home, digital photocopying, laser printing, translating and secretarial work.

The other alternative at HKT is the "Day Rate Special" at the Regal Airport Hotel. This special is about $65US for up to six hours, and includes access to the pool, gym and health spa facilities. (http://www.regalairporthotel.com/content_htm/pmo_pck/relax.htm )

The new Incheon International Airport (IIA) in Korea offers the T.S. Lounge in the Air Garden Transit Hotel for short-term layovers. (www.airgardenhotel.com ) The Air Garden is in the airport. At the T.S. Lounge you will find Western style as well as Korean food, fast food and snacks as well as your favorite beverage. Again, this is a brand new facility, so anyone with experience is asked to post.

If you happen to be in Narita (NRT), you can take advantage of the Airport shower and day room facilities. (http://www.narita-airport.or.jp/airport_e/guide/service/index_shower.html) Shower room access will run about $3US for 30 minutes. Day room rates are about $4.25 per hour.

A Singapore (SIN) layover will allow you to give the IN airport Ambassador Hotel a try. Actually, given a short time layover, it is more probable that you will opt to enjoy the Ambassador gym, sauna and shower facilities. (http://www.airport-hotel.com.sg/recreation.htm ) Prices range from about $3US (for access to just the showers) to $15US (for full access to all of the recreation facilities) Note that the gym and sauna is available ONLY in Terminal 1. You do NOT have to clear customs or immigration, because the Ambassador actually is IN the airport.

I currently know of no independent lounge facilities at the Chiang Kai-Shek airport in Taipei (TPE). However, the Evergreen Transit Hotel,
(http://www.evergreen-hotels.com/Web/Facility.php?WIN_ID=15#?WIN_ID=15 ) which is located in Terminal 2, does have a gym, pool and sauna facilities. This is a relatively new enterprise, so I have no personal experience with it. There are no advertised rates for 'day use' of the recreational facilities. If anyone has experience with the Evergreen Transit Hotel, PLEASE post or e-mail your opinions.

Many people I know use at least some of the time in a short layover to work out or just to walk around the terminal. Working out the kinks, stretching and getting your circulation going is a good idea. I believe that many of the terminal lounges have gym and shower facilities to cater to this popular way of spending layover time. Remember, in just a couple of hours you're going to be back on a plane, trapped, for another 4-6 hours.


The next group of travelers I'm going to address is the 'adventurer' who is on a 8-12 hour layover. In my mind, this is the toughest layover to deal with. If you KNOW what your in-flight sleeping habits are, you can properly plan for your layover. However, I realize that many, if not most, 'adventurers' have no idea what their sleeping patterns will be like on an airplane. If you do NOT know how tired you'll be upon arrival at your layover destination, be conservative, and plan for sleep time during your layover.

With a half day to deal with, you should figure that you will have enough time to leave the airport terminal for 'greener pastures'. There are two routes to take with this. You can plan on a mini-tour of your layover city, or plan on finding some 'sleep -n- shower' facility. Many airlines give you the option of booking this time through them. Some offer tours that you can book either prior to getting on your flight or upon arrival in your layover city. (If you can, book before leaving, so that you have the maximum time for your tour.) Once again, it's important to ASK your airline what services they offer. Similarly, many airlines offer hotel accommodations as part of your travel price, or for a small additional fee. Ask when you book your airfare to see if there are any hotel options available to you.

Presuming that you're 'on your own' in your layover city, let's look at some of your options.

By far, the most common option for the 'half day' layover is to grab some food, maybe a quick swim or workout, a shower, and some sleep. To this end, the city you are in for your layover really determines your options.

If you're in Hong Kong your best bet is going to be the Regal Airport Hotel. (http://www.regalairporthotel.com/content_htm/opening/frame_main.htm ) Here, reservations and preplanning REALLY pay off. The 'regular' rate for a standard room is about $150US per night, but if you book 28 days in advance, the price drops to about $75US. Book 58 days prior to arrival, and the price drops to about $60US. As with most everything in Hong Kong, this is one of the Nicest transit hotels in all of Asia.

If you're layover is in Narita (Tokyo) you have a bunch of options available to you. "Mike Newman's Narita Layover Page" (http://net.saipan.com/personal/mike_newman/narita/narita.html ) IMHO is THE definitive resource for layover info. My suggestion is to read then entire page to get a feel for what you want to do on your layover. Also, make sure to check the links for more detailed information on your selected plan. My personal suggestion is to strongly consider partaking of the pleasure of going to a 'sento', or traditional Japanese bath. (Be SURE to read the 'Bath' section of Mike's page.) The experience is like no other, and, IMHO, is VERY worthwhile. Some bathhouses even have 'overnight' rooms available. Another experience unique to Tokyo, and to Japan, is the Capsule Hotel. Basically, this is a human cubbyhole with a reading light, TV, radio, phone and a comfortable bed. (Location info on capsule, and other types of Tokyo area hotels can be found at: http://wwwforum.inet.fi/yritykset/m2meklarit/stay.html)

In Korea, the Incheon International Airport (IIA) offers the Air Garden Transit Hotel. (http://www.koreahotels.net/inchon/index2.html) For about $41US, you get a standard single room for 6 hours. Each additional hour costs an additional $6.50US. Included with your room is a western style breakfast, lunch or dinner. Korean meals are optionally available.

Should you find yourself in Singapore, the easiest and best option is the Ambassador Transit Hotel. (http://www.airport-hotel.com.sg/index.htm ) The rates are pretty affordable and it's IN the airport terminal. (Actually, there is an Ambassador in both Terminal 1 and in Terminal 2.) The budget room is about $22.50US for 12 hours, and includes a TV, phone and wake up service. (The bath and shower is in separate area. i.e. Shared) The standard room is about $32.40US for 12 hours, and includes in room bath & shower, TV, phone, coffee & tea making equipment and wake up service.. Reservations are VERY MUCH suggested, so make this part of your pre-trip plan.

If you're in Taipei, the CKS Airport Hotel (http://www.ckshotel.com.tw/traffic-e.htm ) will run you about $80US per night for a single standard room. They do NOT offer a 'day rate'. (Reservations are Strongly recommended.)

The other option at TPE is the Evergreen Transit Hotel in Terminal 2. (http://www.evergreen-hotels.com/Web/Facility.php?WIN_ID=15#?WIN_ID=15 ) Here, a Single Standard room will run about $83. (I have no personal experience with this option. If you have stayed here, PLEASE post your experiences.)

As you may be able to tell, Narita (NRT) is my favorite city for a half day layover. Hong Kong (HRT) is a close second favorite for a mid term stay. I freely admit that my views are biased based on my personal experience. When I stayed in Singapore, (SIN) I enjoyed myself, but the experience was more 'detached'. It lacked the warmth of the Japanese culture, and the refined hospitality of Hong Kong. This is not to say that I had a bad experience, it was simply different from HRT and NRT. I personally have never stayed for a mid term layover in either Korean airport location (SEL or IIA), nor in Taipei (TPI), so the information and observations in this report are based on web assets and the experience of friends.

I have elected Not to include information on the half day tours that are available in the various Asian cities. Again, it's my impression that this info would be wasted, since most 'adventurers' are more focused on getting to their final destination than they are in playing tourist in a layover city. (If I'm wrong about this, feel free to let me know.)

I know that this report, like it's predecessor, has turned out to be long. I hope that you feel that it's been worth your reading. And, I hope that you find the information useful. Please, let me know what you think, and if you would, post your experiences. I know that I'm not the only one who's traveled to the Far East. My wish is for my reports to be used as starting points for the exchange of information to help us all better survive the trips to Asia. In fact, it's my hope that with the information available, our community can come to enjoy the travel experience.


Humbly Submitted,


StrikeEagle

Great Info:

This is the first time I heard of a direct flight from SEA to Bkk. ( is that non stop)

I still wonder why there are not more( if any) direct from west coast usa to bkk. the stopovers are a pain, the flight could not be that much longer, and great time to get some good rest.

I agree about the business lounge in hong kong, best I have found. that shower/shave is really nice b4 the short hop to bkk. ( not as much fun on the way back for some reason, probably showering alone after so many days of not solo)


Hope this thread keeps on for a while with more contributors.

Pasathai,

FYI, here are the details of the SEA-BKK flights. This flight would beging in LAX. As you can see, this is not the cheapest flight, right now. But, this is also priced based on pretty short travel notice.

1 adult @ USD 806.60 (758.00 plus 48.60 taxes/fees/airport charges)

Outbound:
Flight: United Airlines 1821 on a Boeing 737-300 Jet
Depart: Los Angeles, CA (LAX) - Fri, Oct 12, 7:45am
Arrive: Seattle/Tacoma, WA (SEA) - Fri, Oct 12, 10:26am


Flight: United Airlines 875 on a Boeing 777 Jet - 1 stop
Depart: Seattle/Tacoma, WA (SEA) - Fri, Oct 12, 12:30pm
Arrive: Bangkok, Thailand (BKK) - Sat, Oct 13, 9:25pm


Return:
Flight: United Airlines 876 on a Boeing 777 Jet - 1 stop
Depart: Bangkok, Thailand (BKK) - Fri, Nov 02, 7:00am
Arrive: Seattle/Tacoma, WA (SEA) - Fri, Nov 02, 8:05am


Flight: United Airlines 1937 on a Boeing 737-300 Jet
Depart: Seattle/Tacoma, WA (SEA) - Fri, Nov 02, 10:15am
Arrive: Los Angeles, CA (LAX) - Fri, Nov 02, 12:55pm


StrikeEagle

The SEA to BKK stops in NRT. This is where the LAX/NRT and SFO/NRT all get together. Another way is LAX/LHR/BKK, sometimes this is cheaper.

The LAX/BKK flight is $760 on United if you fly mid week to mid week with a saturday stopover.

my flight from SFO to BKK (on united) was smooth and easy. left SFO at noon and it took 10 hours to get to NRT. tried to sleep the last 7 hours of the flight. used 10mg of valium to assist. have used excedrin pm before also but it tends to hang with you a bit more. the valium seems to clear out of the system quicker and no real side effects (for me anyway). not a perfectly sound sleep but relaxing for sure.

my layover time was only about 2.5 hours. enough time for 3 beers, a snack, and a few cigarettes. also, there is a second SFO/NRT flight that leaves at 1:30 which would make for a layover of just about an hour - basically no layover at all, you just walk from one plane to the other.

then the NRT/BKK leg took 6 hours. i ate the meal and then took another 10mg and slept/relaxed for the rest of the flight. got into BKK at 9 pm and took private car to hotel for 650B. only took about 30 minutes.

i think the best thing you can do when booking flights is to make sure you arrive at 4 pm or later. arriving in the morning really sucks.

I have been in BKK for four days now and have had absolutely no problems with any jet lag.

p.s. i did go business class using 90,000 FF miles. not sure i could handle it in coach, would be very tough.

Strikeeagle
Thanks for the flite info, but it still looks like there is no non-stop service to bkk from west coast. ( seems like it is possible as far as the equipment is concerned, maybe just pays better to stop and consolidate passengers to the areas they want to go to) ( not all are in a hurry to get to bkk for some unknown reason )

I'm using NW buss class in nov. with ff miles ( 89000 and $38 cash/tax)
( coach is the pitts)

go from san/sea/nrt/bkk. should be a plesant flight.

I have not been in nrt for a while, is the NW ff lounge still difficult to use between flights.

( I got a life membership to it, but rarely use it)


Buick/ I bet ur having a good time, hope the new time schedules for bars does not put a crimp in it:

I would suggest temzepan ( sp?) over valium to sleep on a flight ( or getting ur internal clock re-set after getting back )

I have used it, and notice no after feeling like with valium.

also, I think getting to bkk ( Cathay pacafic does) about noon is great, makes getting on Bkk time much easier.

getting in at nite ( like on the *&#!! NW flite schedule) is the pitts, the next day I feel crappy.

also, if you can get it, ritalin helps re-set ur internal clock to Bkk time.

Agin, great subject/thread. keep it up guys.

My flight on United is a non-stop, no-connection flight. Travelocity.com has it. Type in SEA-BKK, dates flexible, and see what's there. I tried SFO and LAX, but found no non-stops. I had to juggle my vacation schedule to fit it in, but I think the convenience of one plane is worth it. One disapointment is in the cost of business class... $2000! Forget it! That's $1250 more than coach and will buy my week's worth of pussy, hotel, meals and gifts! I'll take the coach seat, get there an hour early and get an emergency exit row seat that reclines. Then, maybe sneak into business class anyway.

According to the United 1K desk the flight from SEA to BKK stops in NRT. The United web sit agrees with the international reservations desk. That makes for three sources that say one stop. However let me know if you take the flight, UA875, one stop according to the OAG.

Indy,

DO NOT ACCEPT A BOOKING THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE AN ASSIGNED SEAT!!!!!

If your Travelocity booking does not include an assigned seat, DO NOT DO IT! If you do, you can possibly expect to wait unitl the very last person has checked in before you'll be able to get your seat assigned. (don't laugh, I've seen it happen)

If you've already booked through Travelocity, without a seat assignment, take the ticket to the airport ticket counter, and have the seat assigned there. (You should also be able to take it to any of the airlines ticket offices, if that's easier)

As an aside, make sure that you are signed up for the United FF program, and that you are getting credit for the miles on this trip.


Chok Dee,


StrikeEagle

I've looked at Travelocity a few times, always do better with local "bucket" ticket shop.

also, the schedules they offered at low prices were not so good.


Indyseattle: I agree the $$ for business class is a lot. ( I only use it when it is a ff ticket/free)


When I have to pay, I have setteled on Eva economy delux. ( at a discount, costs abotu $700-$900 depending on season)

Speaking of sesons ( high/low season) in regards to air fares. I can never figure it out, one airline seems to say low/high season is different than another. ( in regards to getting a ff ticket)


I would be interested in hearing about any non-stop flites from west coast to bkk.


also, anyone else have good ideas to get ur internal clock on schedule asap when you arrive/return.

snauk yai

I have been on the flight from Seattle to Bangkok on a number of ocassions. It has always stopped in Narita. The nice thing is you don't change planes, but you must get out and reload the plane. This was over a year ago, so things may have changed.

Re:Eva
How is their economy deluxe?Been on their web site,but almost impossible to get any info.Anybody have a contact for them?

My flight is with Thai Airways. It is a direct flight which means I don't change planes but there's one stopover. I fly from LAX to NRT (Narita). The plane stays on the ground for 1.5 hours then proceeds to BKK. The Narita International terminal is very nice so 1.5 hours is just enough time to stretch my legs, grab some Sushi, then get back to my seat. The price was $730 plus taxes. I booked through a travel agent instead of "on-line". It costs an additional $15.00 per ticket but I got a seat assignment. I was able to get bulkhead seating both ways... (prog)

Swadi

I like EVA economy delux.

I have taken it several times, and it is great.

I got upgraded to their business class a few times, and no real difference to me.
( and in business class they have bins nest to the window seat which are a pain, got my bag stuck in it twice ( did not learn my lesson the first time)

their ffl program is a little "stingy" the past few years, but the econ/delux tickets can be had for just a little more than coach on other airlines, just shop around with some discount agents.

also, their schedule is nice, leaves after midnight in lax, but arrives in bkk b4 noon.

the flight from tpe to bke is quick too, barely enough time to eat and watch the movie.

( the food is pretty good also)

If you ask, you can get a few freebies ( minature bottles of baileys, ect> too.

Next time I have to pay for a ticket, I plan on EVA.
( also, looking at the data plates in the door frame on entering, I can confirm the planes are the newest I have seen. ( some of the NW ones are older than the flight attentants )

Progman: I think narita is ok for a stopover also, getting "marched" thorugh the xray routine is not so bad, gets the blood flowing wheather you want to or not.

I do notice a lot of asians don't seem to pay attention to the smoking areas. ( bummer for me, messes my my sinusis), but other than that it is at least amusing to wait/watch. ( even found some japanese porno magazines sitting on the seats in the waiting area.


go for it

i just got back from BKK via NRT. the airport is brand spanking new. last time i went through (maybe 3 years ago) it was a real shithole (although the united lounge was okay back then).

now they have two united lounges and one of them is HUGE, although you really don't even need these "private" airline lounges. i strolled around a bit to check the airport and stretch the legs (leaving my luggage in the UAL lounge). they have a nice bar with a smoking area right nearby - this smoking area is not enclosed so you can actually inhale only your cigarette. this was in the general vicinity of gates 20-28.

it sounds like alot of posters are looking for nonstop flights to BKK from the U.S. i don't think one exists as i searched far and wide. remember that "direct" is not non-stop. if anyone finds a nonstop please post for all of our benefit. i think the problem is that the plane simply can't make it that far without refueling - it isn't a question of enough people to fill a non-stop. I was on the upper deck of the 747 from NRT to SFO and at least half of them were on my flight from BKK to NRT.

Buick:

Thanks for the info>

is the old narita terminal still in use also?

I went throught on JAL 2 years ago, and we used the new one, but I am sure we saw the old one in operation also. I was never impressed with it,(the old one) but it was ok..


On the planes not being able to make it all the way to bkk, I don't think this is the case, as places like Singapore are about the same distance.

I think it is more profitable to let off/take on ppl along the way, probably not many ppl going directly to bkk to make it pay. ( only us )

I think there are some quantas flites that go to australia from west coast also.

Still, it would be nice to get on one plane, "zone out" for several hours and end up in bkk.

we shall see.

not sure on the old narita terminal. the terminal that i was in seemed to be 100% united gates and was very very nice (not quite like the new HKG but close).

on second thought, you must be right on the range for the planes. yet another example of us suffering from those capitalist pigs !!!!!

I will be filling out my trip report in the next day or two. I hope all of my fellow club members will enjoy it. I know I did. As a preview, let me provide my criteria for the girls:

(i) looks
(ii) attitude (typically need to assess after the bar fine is paid)
(iii) looks the next day (absolutely know way to know until the sun shines).

for this trip, i hit an all time high and achieved success in all three categories. on one trip to phuket in the past (five days), i failed in every category a couple days and barely got one covered the other couple days - what a tough trip that was. Finally, i got pay back !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buick,
Glad to hear you had a good trip to Thailand. I took advantage of your helpful tips on my recent trip to Phuket... Thanks! Sounds like you had a better time in BKK than in Phuket. Look forward to reading your report. Apart from Cristin's in Patong, I can't rave too much about my time in Phuket.
NCsnake

Buck:

Thanks for the reply, I look foreward to your trip report.

did you every try to get on IRc from thailand,
its always fun for me that way, I will try to be on line early nov if my trip pans out.

Over all, how do you guys like Phuket, for me it feels like home after so many times.

Only time I had a proble is when a gf from bkk heard I was there and came to find me, but it worked out pretty good after a few hours of hassell.

I bet the airlines are missing a chance on some good bux, I would think they could fill a plane at least twice a week with adirect flight to bkk from west coast.

maybe its some kind of goofey regulations holding them back.

but I think the " capitalist pigs " are at the bottom of it.

but also, glad I am one of them, more or less.

kin hee loa snauk

pasathai - i laughed when i typed capitalist pig, also knowing that i fit that description !!! glad to see you think the same.

ncsnake - in my report I will also provide some key differences on BKK versus phuket. I think the key advantage to BKK is the huge number of women and primarily the freelancers - seems like the dancers can't pass the attitude test. We bar fined quite a few and tossed them back due to bad attitudes. We never had to toss back a freelancer, seemed to always payoff. I was not impressed by the quality of the freelancers in phuket - seemed to be below 5 on our 1-10 scale.

to all: my buddies here in SF demanded that I play golf today and give them the report. So, my report will get on this site later today or tomorrow. don't get overexcited, i didn't do anything that out of hand but it should be a good read and get the blood pumping for those of you with upcoming trips.

Buick,

My first day in Bangkok has been a blast. Thanks for the scouting report. I had a wonderful time in NEP... prog

Buck: ( got to ask, is that buck as in male anamal or as in $1 )


for me, capitalist and pig could be 2 different descriptions.

in Phuket, the nite moves bar ( after hours bar near soi expat) used to be the best freelancers area in phuket , but now its kind of dead
( at least last june/july it was) now it seems like that whole area is dead ( agin as of june/july).

with the new closing times, I think it will die altogeather. ( bummer)

I also heard franco's bar ( flash agogo) got a 14 day forced closure for under age girls, ect.
( like they just now got into enforcing that).

buck: you ever hang out at the oasis bar on soi patong resort ( across from soi sea dragon)?

One of my favorite places to start the evenings activities.

Buck: " can't pass the attitude test." really true, the ones that think they are "key lawn" (hot shit)
are not worth the time when there are so many willing ones to pick from. ( send them back to issan)


Progman : you were actually posting that at about 5:30 am bkk time? wow!

I hope you have some words of encouragment for all of us dreading the new "policies" and eary closings.

These new closing policies are being enforced but most bar owners do not believe they will last very long. To be honest - It's kind of nice to have the girls for a longer period of time... I have been keeping a journal of my adventures and will post soon. I'm in Pattaya at the moment and had a great first night. Spent the night with a dancer from Lipstick A-Gogo... All for 1500 Baht. I love this country! ... (prog)

Pasathai,

I liked Phuket too. But then again it was the fianl three days of my trip after schleppin all over SE Asia seeing the sights. A little bit new to the hard core mongering. But I think I had the best time down there the one night I went out to party in Phuket. Kinda more relaxed there than in BKK. At least in my mind. I think all the girls, drink and good cheer just overloaded my senses.

But Phuket, met this one BG ard 10pm we partied till about 4am...this was beginning of July. couldn't go back to my place as A. I saw some guy getting rebuffed by one of the staff for trying it. B. My friend was feeling like crap and wanted to go back and get some sleep and I was in no mood to put on a free show for the guy. So i told her we gotta go to another hotel, she said oh no go to my place.

Go to her place..bear in my mind this is my first time, long time with a BG. But I figured what the hell, I think I could take her and the moto guy if they act up..LOL. So we go, and my god just blew me away with her abilities and attention to detail. Did it once, fell asleep for a few minutes and then woke up thinking I was going to miss my flight. She wakes up a few minutes later says sleep, I say can't so she tries to assist we go at it again. Again same result this time freaking rooster outside her window... Lay really still trying not to wake her till I am parched and dying and move for water...she says can't sleep, I say no... She says i give you a massage helps, ok... well you know what that turned into thrid time in ard 5 hours. Then left, and have thought about that ever since...all for 1000 baht. But I figured with that kinda service i'll leave her 2000.

So when you say it feels like home after many trips. I can say it AMEN brother! This is after one...next one Spring 2002.

Khunk

When were u in phuket? I was there end june/early july.

Bummer about the room you had, I now like to stay at the Neputna. in the center if activity ( hope there still is some LOL)

NO hassell, great place.

I agree, the girls really know how to treat you
(or is it" reel u in")

but from past experience, it does not last for long. about 3 days usually sees a change.

I've setteled on phuket for my fun times, maybe just because it is familiar to me. Other places just don't have the "feel" hard to explain, but when the car is going down the hill into patong I still get "tingly" all over.

Pasathai-

I was there 7/13 thru 7/15. I definitely plan on going back, probably only have another 3-4 days to be there so I will remember your advice about the 3 day expiration date. I never drink milk past the date. LOL.

I will check out that hotel too. Always good to get arecommendation. Saves a lot of trouble later on as I found out.

K

EVA is offering a SMS mobile messaging service to alert you to last minute changes of your flight. This includes delays and late flights. It sends a short SMS message to your mobile phone.

To use this, you have to sign up and register your flight info, but the service is free.

I have NO idea of the effectiveness of this system, but would be interested in feed back if anybody tries it. I'll be trying it this spring.

For more info, go to:
www.evaair.com/html/global/english/global_tools/smap/gb_en_gt_home.htm and click on the SMS link in the 'Travel Planning' section.


Chok Dee,

StrikeEagle

The following link is to seating charts for major airlines. This is a great resource when choosing your seat assignment. - Rasta

Enjoy:
http://www.frequentflyer.oag.com/airlines_airports/seating.asp

FWIW, United offered a similar service to a buddy of mine who was "King Platinum" with them. Let us know your number, and we'll page you if anything happens.

The drawbacks:

1- You had to register for every flight. This to me was stupid, since his FF# was attached to each ticket. If he was on it, the FF# should have pointed to the pager#. No "registering".

2- The one time he did register, and trouble did happen, he was sitting in the airport, three hours after arriving to find his flight had been delayed, when his phone beeped and told him his flight was delayed by 30 minutes.

Dem Gnomes

I am going on a long trip to Thailand and Cambodia. I want to take my laptop and some other things with me. When I leave Thailand for Cambodia, I want to leave my laptop and some luggage in a safe place for approx. a week or two. Does anyone know of a safe way to rent this type of storage in Thailand? I had heard that the Majestic Suites (my hotel) can accomodate bag storage, but the last time I was there, it didn't seem to be true. And, I'm hoping to store my luggage in Pattaya, not BKK, or else maybe ship it ahead of me to Phuket to rejoin with it later. Not really sure how to handle this, but looking for advise. Thanks! Rasta.

A word about melatonin: it helps you to fall asleep, but does not act to ensure that you sleep well.

Bendejo,

I'd agree with you, but then I don't suffer from an inability to sleep on a plane so I have no personal experience to pass on to the community.

What's your best method of dealing with sleeping on a flight? The goal of this section is to pass on everyone's best tips and ideas for dealing with a long flight.

StrikeEagle

I to do not usually have trouble sleeping on flights but I have discovered an herbal substitute for melatonin or other prescription drugs. It is called Passion Flower and can be found at a web site with the same name. No drowsey or sluggish after effects. Only warning......you will have very vivid dreams.

Nice report with lot's of good advice for those who may not have as much experience traveling. One of the best things to do while hanging out in the airport waiting for the plane to board is to check out the women and find a single one traveling. Not often on real long flights but occasionally one gets lucky. Just amazing how being on the same flight lowers the barriers to striking up a conversation and pursuing even more after you land. Worked a couple of times for me.

Re:chewing gum and Singapore. It is not illegal to chew gum there! They just don't sell it there. It is illegal if you throw it on the street or sidewalk. Dispose of it in a trash can and you are OK. Interesting country. Remember, the five stars in their flag stand for diversity amongst the multi cultures of their society.

Sandman

StrikeEagle,

I'm getting ready for another long trip... Thanks very much for the wonderful guide you wrote about long-distance travel tips. I really appreciate it and got a lot of good advise.

Rasta.

PS Here is a link to view seating charts for your flights. Also, one tip is that EVA will pre-book your seat on the telephone if you are at least a green card frequent flyer and booking into Deluxe class. Use the carts below to pick a good one:
http://www.frequentflyer.oag.com/airlines_airports/seating.asp