Merlin got me thinking about the reputation and quality of airlines in Asia. Since I have flown a large number of them, I thought I would list the "safe" airlines that I have used in my travels around East Asia and Oceania, not counting US-based carriers. Please feel free to chip in with other recommendations.

Cathay Pacific - very safe, classy airline. Highly recommend.
Singapore Airlines - world's best international carrier. Highly recommend.
Thai Airlines - safe, modern aircraft. Recommend.
Bangkok Airways - safe, modern aircraft. Recommend.
Malaysian Airlines - safe, modern aircraft. Recommend.
Vietnam Airlines - this may be a surprise, but safe, with modern aircraft and all western pilots to boot. Recommend.
Japan Airlines - in the upper echelon of service. Highly recommend.
Air Mandalay - safe, modern aircraft, with western pilots. Recommend. Avoid all government-owned airlines in Burma.
Royal Air Cambodge - safe, modern aircraft. Associated with Malaysian Airlines. Recommend.
Siem Reap Air - Associated with Bangkok Airways. Safe, modern aircraft. Recommend.
Air New Zealand - rates in the class with Cathay Pacific and Japan Airlines. Highly recommend.

There, I think I've covered everyone I've flown in that neck of the woods...

EVA Airlines. Cheap fares. Decent service. Never crashed yet. Has "Evergreen Deluxe" class which is unique to this carrier only. That is a much larger, wider seat and much more leg room for only $150 to $200 more than economy. Not quite business class but a huge improvement over economy for less than half what true business class costs. You also get an individual LCD TV monitor for each seat in deluxe class. If you sign up for the FF program you can use the VIP lounges even when flying economy after your second flight to Asia. I thought the lounge in Taipei was rather nice for my last layover. Free booze, free food, free Internet, and a place to shower after my 13 hour flight, all on an economy ticket. The lounge in Bangkok was rather basic though. Free booze and food but no Internet or anything.

Last trip I also flew both Bangkok Airways and Siem Reap Air in Cambodia and concur with Murasaki that the aircraft were modern, nice and the service was good.

China Airlines has cheap flight from US to Asia and by all accounts has excellent service when they aren't crashing. And most of the times they don't crash. Only sometimes. They are doing good lately though. It has been a year and a half with no crashes since that last 747 disintegrated at 30,000 feet just out of Taipei, and the MD-11 they landed upside down and on fire only killed 3 of the 300 passengers. But then again the Airbus A300 that missed the runway in Taipai killed all 197 on board and the Airbus A300 they landed backwards in Nagoya, Japan killed 264 of the 279 on board. And then there was the 737 that ran into a mountain in Hualien, Taiwan. But that only killed all 56 people on board and the 737 they they crashed at Pescadores Islands, Taiwan actually hit the runway. Close but..........killed everyone on board. Only 13 on the plane though. I suppose an unlucky number. And the 707 that missed the end of the runway in Manilla. Well before it came to a stop it was on the runway and only killed 2 people so that hardly even counts as an accident. And the brand new 747 they drove off the end of the runway in Hong Kong didn't kill anyone, it only totaled the aircraft so it doesn't count. Still probably safer than your cab ride from the airport though.

Lol, Sancho! Viva China Air (Cheap Charlie Porker's carrier of choice)!!!

Thai Airlines is great - great service, very clean planes and fantastic looking stewardesses. I fly them (the airlines - not the stewardesses ;-)) every chance I get.

Crypton You really should try flying the stewardesses as well. The one I flew blew my mind !! They must get a little " extra " training in their schools.

Eva air is great. Evergreen Deluxe is nicer than most 1st classes in America. Not leather seats like 1st class but I like to recline my seats and have a rest for the entire back of my legs. Only about $200 more than Economy. Also I've never heard of anyone having a 6 hour layover with Eva. Eva is very professional and run a great airline.
KJ

Thai Air - SUCKS! The planes are getting OLD, the seats are worn down and business class sucks! I fly Thai at least once a month and man does it SUCK!
SIA - Singapore Airlines, now thats a ticket my friends. If your company dosent fly you SIA, make them! Its on par with Cathay which is also very good. Another up and comming airline in the region is Malaysian, they seem to have built a good rep for themselves but I havnt tried it yet.

I flew Thai Air Royal Executive class yesterday, it wasn't too bad. The plane was an old Airbus 300 but it was not bad.

I have now flown Air Asia twice this trip, and there are a few things to be aware of. First, like Southwest, there are no assigned seats. However, they don't even board by zones, but by the rugby scrum method. Get ready to throw some elbows and implement some blocking moves.

Second, Air Asia, and Tiger Airways, have very low weight limits for checked in baggage: 15 kilos. Given that many big suitcases these days can weigh 5 kilos easy when empty, that doesn't leave much. They charge you for each kilo over the limit. Be prepared to cough up some cash when checking in.

Lastly, nothing is free on board. You have to pay for any drink or snack you want. It's best to smuggle on your own goodies.

Yes, the prices are cheap, but they really are cattle car flights. You get what you pay for.

Thanks for the post Mura. Rugby scrum may be right, there's no concept of wait-for-your-turn type of thing in some parts of Asia.

A good rule of thumb, I think you mentioned this to me, is if the Asian carrier flies into the United States, they have to meet a certain level of extra safety requirements. My experience in Asia and Latin America seems to bear this out as many of the airlines that don't have a presence in the USA just appeared less safe.

I agree with your original post and your recommendations. I'd add some comments about some other Asian airlines I've flown.

ASIANA: 2nd largest Korean carrier and recommended. Mostly newer planes and many of their bigger planes have Aussie or Indian pilots. Awesome lounge in Inchon and pretty stewardesses. Great route into Clarke and they have good arrival record.

KOREAN AIR: Recommended, but not as highly as Asiana. Largest and oldest Korean airline. Many newer planes A330, 747-400, 777s and more routes than Asiana. In the past, they had several safety issues (crashes); many of their pilots are former ROK fighter pilots. Ironically, they've hired many Mexicana pilots for their domestic routes. They tend to have labor issues and strikes periodically. Customer service could be better. The stewies now have these fancy European designed uniforms and are generally cute.

China Eastern: the actually have newer planes (mostly airbuses), but I fly them only if I have to. Lots of domestic routes, espec. thru Shanghai and to Beijing. They had safety issues in the past. I flew them 3 times and thought their planes were older and their pilots less than stellar (one pancake landing).

China Southern: Recommend. I think they're the largest airlines in China. Lots of newer planes with great frequency of flights. But their services sucks and the 2 times I flew them they were delayed.

Shanghai Air: Only if you have to fly to Shanghai from Phnom Penh I'd recommend it. A smaller airlines with seemingly older planes and the service was terrible and lousy.

Merlin,

We used to joke that before getting on Dragon Air or any of the older low-cost intra-Asia carriers (mid-90's), it was a good idea to take a magic marker and write your name on both your arms and legs and torso. That way, just in case you were ripped apart in a crash, they could easily find all of your parts to put in the coffin!

Updates to Asian airline recommendations

Ok, now that I’m back it’s time to get caught up on the notes and updates, not to mention the reports. I rode 13 different airlines in Asia on the mega-trip that I just finished, all in economy or cattle class. Here are my thoughts on them.

Adam Air: I flew this airline twice in Indonesia, where they fly domestically. Both planes were newer 737’s and the service was ok. Both times, I was given the front row, which had massive leg-room. Thumbs up to the counter staff for being thoughtful about my height. Domestic prices for flights in Indonesia are dirt cheap, this airline being no exception.

Air Asia: Groan. I flew Air Asia twice, from China to Bangkok, then Bangkok to Macau. I will avoid them as much as possible in the future, only using them when other alternatives are just too expensive. Air Asia offers true cattle car ambience. Only two agents to check-in both times, resulting in very long lines at the airport. No assigned, and no boarding by zones. Boarding is a free for all, and if you’re in China, people race to the plane. Both times boarding turned into a rugby scrum. The weight limit is only 15 kg for your one piece of luggage. They charge for every kilo over the limit. You pay for anything you want to eat or drink on the plane (bring your own). And the legroom is nil. But it’s cheap!

Air China: I was pleasantly surprised the two times I flew this airline in China. The planes were new, plenty of counter staff at check-in, service was fine, and the food on my long flight was actually good, which I couldn’t believe. I would definitely fly them again.

Bangkok Airways: I love this little airline. They’re pricey, but they treat you like a king in their private waiting lounges, with free fruit juices and snacks, plus magazines and newspapers. They also fly to some great fossil-hunting destinations. Thumbs up from Murasaki.

Batavia Air: Avoid! Another domestic-only airline in Indonesia. The plane scared the crap out of me. It was a 737-200; the last plane of this series rolled off Boeing’s assembly line in 1988. This one must have been even older. I survived. Never again.

Cathay Pacific: One of the granddaddies of Asian Airlines. Flew them twice. Service has actually improved, with them picking up the meal trays quickly three out of four meals (they had a bad track record with this in the past). Leg room still sucks. But the in-flight entertainment systems are much appreciated, with plenty of games and movies to choose from.

China Eastern: Ho hum. So-so airline that I flew once in China. Planes are new, service was ok. Nothing to write home about, but ok to fly.

Garuda Airlines: Garuda has upgraded their fleet. The Airbus 330 I rode in was definitely newish. Service was ok for the one flight I took, seats ok. However, the 3-hour delay wasn’t appreciated. Such is the luck of the traveler.

Japan Airlines: See entry on Cathay Pacific, except they’re faster to pick up the meal trays, and service is slightly better.

Lion Air/Wings Air: NO! AVOID. The horror, the horror. These two airlines are actually the same airline. Yet another domestic-only Indonesian airline(s). They fly MD-83’s and MD-90’s. And let me tell you: I have never, never, never, ever seen shorter leg-room than I did on my one flight. I kid you not, there was eight inches of space between seats, and that’s a generous estimate. When I got on board and saw this, I requested to be moved. Given that I’m 6-3, they understood and the attendants asked some 5 foot person in the exit row to swap with me. And that seat was still cramped as well. I was scheduled to fly on them one more time, but I canceled the flight and booked on Adam Air instead.

Thai Airways: Well, it’s Thai. Nice planes for my round-trip to Chiang Rai, but as usual, the laziest cabin crew you’ll ever find anywhere. But hey, if it’s Thailand, they usually go where you need to go.

Tiger Airways: Groan again. See Air Asia entry, as they’re identical. I will never fly Tiger again unless I absolutely have to. Like Air Asia, both times I flew there were only two clerks to handle check-in. I had to stand in line for 56 minutes in Angeles City to check-in because of this. And our flight wasn’t even full. But of course, everybody except me had five suitcases, six boxes, four carry-ons, and two screaming babies.

ValuAir: They rock. I loved this airline and look forward to doing business with them again. Not only did they have six agents to handle check-in for my flight to Jakarta from Singapore, but get this: the leg room in economy was HUGE! I couldn’t believe it. There was so much space I felt like Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music, twirling around on the hilltop with my arms flailing in the air. New planes. Good service and free food. Big thumbs up.

Did you notice the "Invocation Card" (Doa-Doa Perjalanan)in the seat back pockets of Lion Air. I thought it was fucking hilarious. They had a nice glossy card printed with preyers in five different religions and at least three different languages asking the relevant gods of each religion, please god don't let the plane or the crew fuck up. I was waiting for an announcement "ladies and gentlemen, in the event of an emergency please look in your seat back pockets and.......PRAY!!!!" They were obviously willing to accept any help they gould get from any god they could get without prejudice. Except Judaism was overlooked for some reason. They had Islam, Protestant, Catholic, Hindu, and Buddhist. The cards said "please do not remove from aircraft" but I just had to take one for a souvenir.

I guess Phuket Air has fallen by the wayside.

I did see those invocation cards on Lion Air. And I was cursing to all five religions about how crappy the airline was. They were pretty funny.

You should have been tipped off by Wings' company slogan. "Fly is cheap"

It would be cool is Air Asia offered such a quick translation card for intimate encounters dialog for all it's destination countries. Maybe with illustration cartoons of things like bj, hj, etc, so you can just bring it with you and point to what you want. Of course they would all be stolen ASAP, and they'd better be plastic coated and washable!

I think it's funny to watch all you tall fuckers with your knees tucked into your chins on the el-cheapo airlines! Long live SHORT PEOPLE!!!

Can anyone tell me if Thai Airways Premium Economy is worth the extra money for a non stop LAX to BKK?

They claim a 42" pitch, on a 2,3,2, seating row. The economy seats have a 36" pitch, on a 2,4,2 seating row.

RG.

I can't directly speak to how much more the premium economy seats are worth as I have never flown Thai economy (premium or othrewise), but a 6 inch increase in seat pitch can mean a substantial increase in comfort (even though it doesn't sound like that much).

I'm surprised at the 36 inch seat pitch on regular economny. That is more than almost all other airlines. Indeed, according to lovemyseat.com Thai Airways 747-400 Version 1 (the only Thai Airways aircraft they have on their site) the seat pitch in economy class is 32 inches.

The Thai non stop LAX to BKK is a brand new Airbus 340. It has fewer economy seats and 60 business class easts so it can fly non stop to BKK. Lighter load for better flight distance on fuel load - bigger charges to compensate.

That being said I have never flown economy on Thai so I cannot personally compare but my Thai travel agent/ex girl friend says the price is definitely worth it.

I've flown several of the airlines mentioned here and can add a couple more. Most of my miles however are on Northwest and United (Platinum and 1K on each, respectively) as I fly back and forth between the states and Thailand monthly, but work out of Thailand for other work I do in Asia.

By the way, my definition of "pretty good" is "comparable to major US airlines, which shows how low my standards have sunk (or more accurately, how poor airlines around the world have sunk) in quality.

Thai Air:
I agree with Auto69, Thai Air has gone downhill. I also fly it about once a month and would be at least Gold on it if I didn't put my miles on my United card instead. It's only comparable to U.S. airlines now whereas 3-4 years ago I'd have rated it higher, except the flight attendants are cuter (duh who DOESN'T have better flight attendants than the US?) but am sick of their food which is frankly not as good even as the crappy U.S. airlines food. (I get ill anymore at the smell of red curry, thanks to the crappy curry duck they always seem to serve and have to smell all the time). They have a heck of a time keeping the toilets clean on the Bangkok-Beijing run which I take a lot, but I think that's because of the poor hygiene of the Chinese nationals (sorry for any Chinese nationals I've offended, but that's my observation of most of them, I'm afraid, and I spend as much time in China as I do in Thailand).

Emirates airlines:
pretty good and would recommend

Bangkok Airlines:
pretty good and would recommend

Siem Reap Airlines:
pretty good and would recommend

Singapore Airlines:
very good and highly recommended. One of my favorites. Has among the most beautiful flight attendants, I almost managed to pick up one once, or maybe that was part of their style, to make you think they are "available"

Malaysian Airlines:
also one of my favorites, and highly recommend; with attractive flight attendants, although it's a bit disconcerting nowadays knowing they have a muslim praying room on the plane somewhere and the map on the screen always has a pointer showing which direction Mecca is.

South African Airlines:
also one of my favorites, highly recommend especially for their business class (fly out of Hong Kong)

China Airlines:
pretty good and would recommend

Air Asia:
ok for a discount airlines, but basically a cattle car

Tiger Airways:
ditto to Air Asia

Jetstar Asia:
ditto to Air Asia, actually I like this one best of the Asian discount airlines I've flown, maybe it's the cushy leather seats, but still a cattle car.

I think I've flown a couple other discount airlines but forget which ones now.

Most of the mainland Chinese airlines suck:

China Eastern Airlines:
barely tolerable but wouldn't recommend if there is an alternative (spartan service in coach, horrible food, not well kept up). The only plus is that it's usually easy to get business class when it's offered (and often it's not) because most of the Chinese passengers can't afford it. There the service is so attentive, it's almost annoying. (like the attendant feels compelled to personally tell me everything the pilot announces on the PA, even though he does it in both Chinese and English).

Air China (not to be confused with China Airlines; I believe China Southern is now part of Air China, and it was crappy too):
Same as China Eastern

Shanghai Airlines:
Same as China Eastern

Someone asked about Phuket Airlines. I flew down to Phuket earlier this month on Bangkok Airlines (being off season, it is only serviced by Thai and Bangkok Airlines) but checked to get rates on Phuket, only to learn they don't fly there, at least not right now. I did see some of their planes on the tarmac at BKK though, so maybe they are flying somewhere.

Check out www.airlinequality.com for really detailed ratings on most airlines in the world. The one thing that is clear is from their ratings is that some airlines that are better in one class of service than other airlines, may not be better (or even worse) in another class of service. This website breaks down ratings by class of service and more.

Hi Sojourner

Its nice to read that you rate South African Airways (being South African) although I can't help but feel the cabin crews on SAA have gone to shit lately and stay away from their frequent flyer program it sucks, on the bright side SAA has joined star alliance and has a relatively new fleet, good pilots, and a safety record better then most so things are looking up. I fly them locally about once a month and next month I will be flying on SAA to NY. For Thailand I usally fly Qatar. Its OK and from SA has the cheapest flights with a free stop over in Dubia on the way back to do a little shopping.

Isawal,
Thanks for the input. Been wanting to try Qatar since it is on the list of 5 star airlines on the website I cited. Maybe I'll do that next time I get a chance to fly from BKK to South Africa.

Sojourner

Sojourner

Next time you are in SA give me a shout.

I have flown Thai, KAL, China Airlines, NWA, Cathay Pacific and JAL to BKK many times. Thai from JFK-BKK is pretty good, but getting to JFK from ORD is a hassle. China was horrble, bad food, crappy entertainment system and a buckboard seat. NWA was actually not bad, but required a layover in Minnasota. KAL is ok, but thier food is so so and the entertainment system isnt available on all flights. Cathay was good, I wish they flew deirect out of ORD. I like JAL the best, ORD-NRT-BKK. good service, good food, even in Economy and no surprises. free internet at Narita lounge and even snack trays for munching between meals. I have not tried Singapore Airlines,but I have heard very good things about them, EVA as well. Mojo.

I am flying Evergreen Deluxe class to BKK in the first week of Feb. I will get a few pics and a write-up for the board. Evergreen Deluxe BTW is coach class service in a seat similar to Business Class for only about $100 more than the standard coach seat. A great value. I'll let you all know how it works out.

Val

I just flew Evergreen Deluxe to Bangkok 5 weeks ago. I've been meaning to update this thread with my findings. The good news for both legs, SFO to Taipei and Taipei to BKK is that the seat was large and the leg room rocked. That in itself is enough to get me to do it again.

Unfortunately on the SFO to Taipei leg, EVA flies an older 747 that is actually half a cargo plane. Couldn't believe the back half was all cargo, but it was. The interior was a little worn, and the inflight entertainment system sucked. Neither of this was a problem from Taipei to BKK, as we were on a 777ER. The entertainment system was much better on that plane.

Overall service was decent and the experience was good. I'm sure I'll be repeating in the future.

Now if they'd just offer Evergreen Deluxe on the flights to and from Jakarta, life would be improved another notch.

I flew the EVA taipei-Jkt route 2x now, and although they call it "economy", the last trip they had seats that appeared to be the older "deluxe" seats on the 747 Combi jets. The first trip, however, they flew the A330 on that route where they had no deluxe seats.

Also, if you get a deluxe seat on a 777 and you are an EVA elite member, there is more of a chance of an upgrade to Laurel class b/c there is a very limited number of Deluxe seats on the 777.

I was on the A330 for the Taipei-Jakarta flight. There was only two classes: business and economy. Five hours sucked in that standard seat.

INDONESIA BUDGET AIRLINES

If you've been following the news lately, they still haven't found the wreckage of the 737 AdamAir flight that crashed in Indonesia around new years. This one hit a bit close to home, as I had seriously contemplated taking Adam Air to Jakarta from Surabaya near that time period. Also, the flight that crashed flew out a day or two after I flew out on AirAsia from the same Surubaya airport, their check in desk was two stalls from AirAsia's.

Anyway, did a bit of research on budget airlines as I've had other issues with budget carriers in Latin America. Some interesting articles for those contemplating using the budget airlines in 3rd world countries.

http://bialoglowy.blogspot.com/2006/02/fear-factor-flying-in-indonesia.html

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2007-01-03-asia-budget-airlines_x.htm

I don't think all budget airlines can be, or should be, tarred with the same brush. In fact, I had a great experience with ValueAir/Jetstar Asia (new A320) planes. AirAsia is based out of Malaysia, but they also had minor safety issues and the AirAsia planes looked old (engines seemed to be dirty and had bit parts exposed).

(Message edited by merlin on January 05, 2007)

Interesting site from one of the previous articles (notably written a year ago) which gives you average age of airlines:

www.airfleets.net

Out of curiosity, checked on a few airlines I flew last year.

COPA AIR (Closest Call yet w/Emergency Landing), can't believe if this is right, but 77.6 years as an average age???
http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/COPA%20Panama.htm

EVAAIR is 7.6 avg age of aircraft (good)http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/EVA%20Airways.htm

JETSTAR/VALUEAIR brand new planes 1.6 years. Great outfit and partly owned by Quantas. http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Jetstar%20Asia.htm

AIRES (COLOMBIA) heard noises on one flight, and the average age of the fleet is 17 years.
http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/AIRES%20Colombia.htm

AIRASIA seemed ok, at avg age of aircraft at 7.6 years, plus it's based in Malaysia and its CEO is a reputed rising star.
http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/AirAsia.htm

AVIANCA's (Colombia) planes are averaging 14.6 years (relatively high), but the ages of their larger planes are in the high teens and it shows.
http://www.airfleets.net/ageflotte/Avianca.htm

(Message edited by merlin on January 05, 2007)

For the Brits out there, Air Asia has been in the news all week announcing some huge partnership that may result in something like 80 USD one way tickets from the UK to Kuala Lumpur.

Hey, I took that Surabaya-Manado flight last June!
The thing probably ended up in the drink, otherwise someone would have seen the crash and reported it by now.
I’ve done some island hopping in Indonesia, sometimes in planes with only 14 seats or so. In one place a puddle-jumper had a bad landing and everyone on board got their legs broken, including the pilots and the island’s only doctor. Note to self: while a plane is landing pick legs up off the floor.
Once on a Lion Air flight it was incredibly cold in the cabin. Complaints to the stewardess (an Indonesian equiv of a dumb blonde) did no good, she told people to adjust those overhead things, but the cold was blowing out of the walls. No blankets either: “nothing! nothing!” said the stewardess. It was only a one-hour flight but it was torturous.
With a lot of these routes to less popular destinations there is no way to find out the schedules until you arrive at the departure place. As dumb as this sounds it is true, I went to the airline offices as well as travel agents, and the best I could get was “yes, the route exists, but we don’t know when the flights are.” The bitch of it is when you get there you can be told there is one flight a week, and it left yesterday. The tickets go on sale the day before the flight.
Once an Indonesian travel agent wrote my ticket for the wrong destination. After having to hang around the shit hole town for four days waiting for this flight, waking up at 4am to get to the airport on time, and then finding this out, I said “that's it!” and headed off to Surabaya for a three-day fuck fiesta before leaving the country.

The race is on to see who can bring the authentic Third World bus experience to the air. I have to admit that the AdamAir flight was the only internal flight I took that was of comparable standards to flights in the civilized world, even though they did delay the flight till more people showed up. I think I paid $60 for the Surabaya-Manado run.

Then there is Taca in South America. I think it’ll be just a matter of time before there’ll be people carrying goats and chickens into the passenger compartment. I also think they will be the first airline to install pay toilets on their planes.

Wow Bendejo, you should get hazard pay for island hopping on questionable aircraft in Indonesia. I've had many unpleasant experiences w/ rinky dink Chinese airlines flying outdated "Yakov Smirnoff" Rusky Planes as well as a Cambodian airline that recently went bellyup (pilots looked like disheveled street vendors and needed phonebooks to sit on to see out of the cockpit).

I'm also not flying Taca anymore, the service, scheduling and airline is all messed up as you noted. They're gonna ruin those new planes w/those inexperienced pilots doing those pancake landings.

Here's one I've been on a few times, and the one involved with the "all legs broken" incident.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASA_C.212_Aviocar

Bear in mind that it is a wiki page, so accuracy is questionable.

have also been produced under licence in Indonesia
Scary!

Have now added China Airlines to my stable of experience. I must say I was pleasantly surprised. The SFO-TPE leg was on the newest 747 I have ever seen. The inflight entertainment system rocked, even in economy; the best I've seen on an airline. Huge selection and the ability to start, stop, and pause at will, not to mention fast forwarding capabilities. The food was good and the service was some of the best I've ever experienced in economy. Oh yeah, and some hot attendants as well.

The only downside was the seat pitch, but that's a problem with everyone in economy.

Unfortunately, on the return flight to SFO I did not hit the lottery. They used a much older aircraft that was a return to the 90's - a large projection screen for everyone to watch the same damn thing. No personal entertainment systems. The FA told me it was always a roll of the dice which aircraft they'd get on the run.

At least China Airlines has proved to be a viable alternative when I can't get the schedule with EVA to work out.

Now all you have to do is join me in China Air's first class and you will not fly anyone else.

Strange about the roll of the dice thing. I swear I get the same plane every time as I always book seat 1A and the seat has the exact same quirks every time. First on China has only one seat on each side of the plane in each row. Sweet !!

He flies out of SFO, you fly out of LAX. Big difference in regularly scheduled flights to TPE.

I was actually hoping to fly out of SFO a couple years back, as they were the ones that offered the "conexion by boeing" in-flight internet service. 30 bucks for the whole long-haul flight. But Boeing has apparently now scrapped that service on every airline, and the airlines are looking for alternatives.

From what south east asian countries can I fly directly into Clark Air Field. I would prefer a flight from Bangkok but will but will be travelling to other areas aswell.

From Clark Field

AirAsia-Malasia, Kuala Lumpur Kota Kinabalu
Tiger Airways-Macau, Singapore
Asiana-Seoul Korea
Hong Kong Airlines-Hong Kong

And any connections you can pull off from there.

Does anyone have any recent experiance flying on EVA 777 Elite class out of LAX? I am trying to compaire it to Thai Airways Premium Economy class.

Right now TA wants $1400 for a Sept/Oct RT out of LAX in Premium Economy class. It's a nice flight, as I've done it once, but there is NO way I would want to be stuck in Economy for a 17hr nonstop flight.

Thanks RG.

Has anyone flown from Manila to AC? If so details please. Thank you colleagues.

Manila to AC you are talking SEA airlines and that's about it . There is a guy who does private flights but I cannot remember any details.

Schedule is extremely limited only one flight and not even every day. You are better off with a car or bus. Only 1 1/2 to 2 hours by land vs 30 minutes flight time. However add an hour for the BS of air travel and it's about a wash.

Check the current schedule and fares at

http://www.flyseaair.com

Time for some updates. The flights on EVA rocked on this last trip. A bonus surprise was that my Elite card was waiting for me on my return, which will now get me lounge access. They are running two a day out of SFO now, and I got a new 747 on the outbound, and an old Combi on the inbound. Didn't matter much on the way back as I either read or semi-slept all the way.

I added two new airlines to my stable of experience. The first, don't cringe, was Lao Airlines. I didn't die. I flew three legs on them, all on Chinese MA-60's. No problems, the planes were new, and their marketing lit emphasized that although the plane comes from China, the engine, landing gear and avionics all come from the US. I laughed when I read that.

The other new line was Viva Macau, a budget airline out of Macau that has a limited schedule, running mostly 767's. I took them on a redeye from Jakarta to Macau. The plane was new, crew was fine, and it was the cheapest option from Jakarta to either HK or MFM. The problem was that although 90% of the people on the plane were Indonesian, they wouldn't accept rupiah to purchase food or drinks, including water. I couldn't believe it. I was told it was because their bank in Macau doesn't handle the currency. I about died of thirst until they took pity on me and brought me a cup. Fuckers. They also have a low baggage limit and charge a lot if you're over. Can't say I'd really recommend them unless you were desperate like I was.

I continue my love/hate relationship with Air Asia. I love the prices and ability to fly last minute. Hate many other things - that baggage weight limit sucks of course. And the exchange rate they use on board for currencies outside the "plane's nationality" is outrageous. For example, flying to Jakarta from Bangkok, you are on "Indonesia Air Asia." So a bottle of water was 10,000 rupiah (a little over a dollar); but if you wanted to pay in baht, it was 75 baht (2.5 dollars). Yes, if you didn't have rupiah, you were fucked, which is par for the course with them.

Bangkok Airways still rocks. Love their lounge at the new BKK.

i tried thai's LAX/BKK nonstop premium economy last week. not sure i'd pay extra for premium next time (think it was $400 more). the best features were nonstop and in flight entertainment and you get both those in economy. both premium and economy were pretty empty. only 8 people in premium section and it looked like all solo travelers in economy had an empty seat next to them. recline in premium was nothing special.

i usually take united to HKG or SGN as my "gateway" to asia. pay economy and upgrade to business with miles. sometimes i bite the bullet and fly one way in economy ("economy plus"). i hate united's LAX or SFO to BKK via NRT. flight times are ridiculous (arrive bkk late at night and depart before the sun is up). since i've flown united my whole life, i'm a slave to their schedule and partners.

anyway, i'd been thinking about trying the thai nonstop since i get UA miles and i've been operating out of LAX the last two years. glad i tested it and i'd do it again but save $400 next time.

THAI NONSTOP LAX/BKK IS ON AGAIN, FOR AWHILE.

i can't remember where i saw it on the site but there were some guys talking about this nonstop going away. it WAS going away but now it is back on due to lower fuel prices. there is an article in the bangkok post today if anyone has interest.

i paid for premium economy, as noted in the previous post. when i extended my stay in asia, i was told the nonstop was done for my new date and i'd have to go back in regular economy, plus stop for fuel in osaka.

now it is back. whew..... i didn't need the 2 hr fuel stop.

Thought I'd post about a great experience and a horrible experience this last trip with Asian discount Airlines. The great experience was with Jetstar/Valueair based out of Singapore. Used them many times. Excellent service, on-time, and responsive customer reps as usual.

The horrible service was with VivaMacau (VM) airlines from JKT-MAC, this may serve as a cautionary tale for the Asia traveler -- skeletal staff, cancellations, no customer service, etc.

VM is a relatively new airline that serves Macau nonstop to places like JKT, BKK, etc. I was booked to leave JKT to Macau to join the South China Hombre convention. As is my habit, I called the day before to confirm the flight. On the date of departure, I arrived at the JKT airport about 2 hrs before my flight and stood in line. We waited for about an hour and a half to check in but no representative was in sight. Eventually, the people standing in line rightfully grew impatient and demanded to see someone. Soon, there appeared the "controller" of the airline who knew nothing about what was going on. A near riot broke out. We stood around for another 2 hours, when the check in signs finally told us that the flight was "cancelled", and that the next avail flight was in 18 hours. No explanations Again, a lot of angry locals. There was no one to talk to about comps or hotels or other matters. I finally had an audience with the "controller" who assured me that my ticket would be refunded if I did not fly out on the next flight. So, I cancelled all my plans to fly out that and decided to stay put in JKT and enjoy the rest of my stay there (not a bad thing but I missed out big time in China). Later, there were rumours that the flight was cancelled for some reason related to the LOS airport troubles. Whether this was true or not, I used this as an excuse to get my visa overstayment penalties.

Thereafter, I came home and sent emails and called to get the refund. But no one responded any of my attempts to contact VivaMacau concerning my refund request (which was refundable biz class tx). I called during their business hours, but they kept transferring me to a voicemail that said to call back during "regular business hours". This has gone on for about a week and a half. I finally got a hold of someone yesterday (2 wks upon returning home) and got her email and assurances that I would get a refund. I Sent her the email right after I spoke and still have not heard back as of yet. In 20+ years of airline travel, this bad experience takes the cake.

(Message edited by merlin on December 16, 2008)

All--

My list is alot like everyones: One caveat, as an airline employee, I view them from an "insiders" viewpoint..

SQ- First class all the way.. My only gripe is that SQ is notorious for being very inflexible.. Good schedule intra-asia, but gets really thin as you move outside of the region. Being a founding member of Star Alliance helps their coverage reach.

OZ- One of my personal favorites.. Nice cabin crew, decent equipment (I love their remaning B74M combis) and reasonable fares.. My only gripes? Their schedule LOOKS deep, but when you look carefully you'll see they only fly to many staions 2X or 3X weekly.. Also, connections to Europe/US *usually* involve lengthly layovers in ICN..

MI- As the low-cost arm of SQ, they retain most of the good things of SQ, but at a more reasonable price point. A regional carrier only, and limited network.. But if they fly your market, you'll love everythig about them!

BR- I love those size 0 or size 1 girls dressed in that hideous green uniform. But, in fairness and in the spirit of self-disclosure, I dated a BR Flight Attendant for almost a year.. They try hard.. They decent coverage and frequency within asia (like CI) and usually are the cheapest or near to it in all markets they serve.. I'd recommend them for US-Asia flights.. why? they are phasing out their B74M combis and moving into more B773's on those markets.. IMHO, the B773 is the most comfortable aircraft for long-haul travel (kudo's to BR and CX for ordering)

NH/JL- I lump them together as one.. I like NH a little more than JL. Why? NH has a better intra-asia network with market leading service to/from PRC.. If you need to get to the PRC and you aint flying a chinese carrier, chances are that NH can get you there. Both have excellent "premium" economy product and new-gen First/Bus seating too.. Service is typically japanese.. crip, prompt, with a smile, but lacking in personalization (i like personalization-- my choice)

TG-- I love TG.. My only gripe is that they have struggeled for years with a mish-mash fleet.. Like Forrest Gump, "you never know what you're gonna get".. Many of us fly a particular carrier or particular flight for the specific plane type. However, with TG, you get a suprise oftenly.. With limited exceptions for markets like LAX-BKK-vv, that has dedicated equipment, you just never know.. TG's pre-departure Flight Attendant uniforms-- the sarong-- get my vote for most beautiful.. I dislike SQ's open toe shoes..

PR-- Not much to like here... Mr. Tan screwed this carrier up years ago.. Shame on him.

FD-- Air Asia, I love them and those oh-so cute girls that they call Flight Attendants.. Perhaps I'm jaded, but if we had to ditch/divert and emergency evacuate, I do wonder if they would be able to control the situation...

CX-- Don't think you'll any carrier with better coverage in asia, to asia and thru asia than CX.. First rate equipment and they never fly with something broken (deferred) in the premium cabins.. Like the new style uniforms.. Sexy, sleek and I like the color pallate.. My gripe? Like SQ, they tend to be a bit rigid and inflexble in some aspects of their operation..

MH-- Award winning cabin staff.. (They do staff their a/c with at least 1 or 2 more f/a's than most western carriers).. decent network, good price points but limited coverage outside of the region.. I have flown their KUL-ARN-EWR and LAX-TPE-KUL services and found it to ber very pleasant.. I prefer their B777's to their older, but refurbished B747's..

MU/CA-- I'll lump all the PRC-based carriers together as they are all in the same developmental stages.. They growing and experiencing the growth pains of any worldwide carrier.. I fly CA and MU only when no other options exsist.. Mind you that it's note that they are bad, but.... as nice as a Holiday Inn Express is, it's not a Hilton..

(Message edited by gopbi1 on January 06, 2009)