Despite its financial woes, I've remained a loyal United FF member for the past 5 years now, although I'm hedging my bets by using Continental as my primary FF program.

Notwithstanding it's bankruptcy woes, United is adding more international flights. In fact, USA Today said 40% of its flights are international now. Last year, United increased flights to Asia 14%, mostly to China, Japan, Vietnam and Hong Kong. Their big hubs are SFO and LAX. Availability to Asia on United is quite good, and the availability of upgrades using miles is excellent compared to Continental. Additionally, in a survey done on airlines, United was one of the few airlines that actually improved in customer satisfaction last year.

The flipside is that United, although they claim they will be out of Bankruptcy this year, is facing possible strikes by its members in May because of United's inability or unwillingness to take responsibility for their workers' pensions, which is severely underfunded by billions of dollars. I'm a bit nervous, I'm not a shareholder but do have over 175K miles on UAL. I'm hopeful that United will weather this upcoming storm and be a better airline for it.

Let's keep our fingers crossed. If United, the 2nd largest U.S. airlines, goes belly up, this will drastically decrease competition among airlines to Asia.

(Message edited by merlin on April 28, 2005)

As you, I am a loyal customer of UAL also. I've been splitting air time between AA and UAL, about evenly. I must say, that AA really does take care of me much better. The downside is that getting flights on AA to SEA is a laborious task at best. I am not too worried about FF going away anytime soon, as that is a cash cow for airlines.

Yes, FF programs are cash cows, but, they are now managed like a revenue center rater than a loyalty reward program. This makes them less useful as a tool to maintain customer loyalty which is supposed to be their reason for existance. As a FF, I now am less concerned about them. If this then becomes their reputation, then their continued existance is no longer assured.

United has an extremely lucrative franchise in its Asian routes. It is one of the few American airlines that have "continuing" rights out of Tokyo, allowing it to compete with the Japanese airlines to other destinations in Asia. Tokyo serves as an Asian hub for them. In fact from what I've read, it's the international routes that are keeping the company afloat right now, as the domestic routes continue to lose money.

There has been talk of United becoming what Pan Am once was: strictly an international carrier, with minimal to no domestic routes. I wouldn't be suprised at all if that happened. If it did, they would probably retain their FF program and membership in the Star alliance. They also wouldn't have to compete against the likes of Southwest and JetBlue.

I used to fly United a lot. However, I had really poor experiences with them the last time I flew them to Bangkok, in 2001. Combined with their crappy arrival and departure times, I switched over to the Asian carriers and haven't been on an American airline outside the US since. I much prefer arriving at 3 or 4 in the afternoon and leaving at about 11 am or noon, instead of arriving at midnight and leaving at 6 am.

I stopped flying United in about 1998 as a result of a string of really awful experiences with them. I only recently took a couple of United flights owing to that they were the only ones flying particular routes I needed non-stop. The flights were adequate but inferior to their competitors with one exception, American Airlines.

For Asia, I have had good luck with Singapore Airlines, Japan Airlines, and All Nippon Airlines, with Northwest proving adequate but nothing more. FWIW, here is my list of airline quality (from those I have flown recently), going from IMHO best to worst:

1. Singapore Airlines
2. Japan Airlines
3. All Nippon Airlines
4. Delta
4. KLM
6. Alaska Airlines
7. Continental
7. Northwest
9. Southwest
10. United
11. American

As with just about everything else in life, YMMV.

Ack.

I agree with SA at #1, but the rest greatly diverge from my experiences. JAL coach SSSSucks unless your in business. Either that or you r a midget. They make cathay coach look regal.

I can't speak to JAL economy class as I've always flown it business. I guess I should have stated my ranking is for business or first class, with the exception of United, where my low rating applies to all classes, and Southwest where they only have economy class.

In my experience, Continental has the absolutely best web tool for booking frequent flyer flights; I wish other airlines had something even remotely close. If you indicate where you want to go, it will show you Continental frequent flyer availability for every class of service for the entire month you are trying to book in.

(Message edited by LAguy on April 29, 2005)

In recent years, my experience, supported by some recent studies, is that United has noticeably improved its service and performance.

"In a recent survey United, was one of a couple of domestic airlines to have improved their service ratings United Airlines was the only major U.S. carrier that improved service in 2004, according to the annual Airline Quality Rating (AQR) study released this week by Wichita State University." See http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2005/04/04/daily10.html

As for CONTINENTAL, I´ve always had great service and response from them, plus, in terms of free domestic upgrades (including on Copa to Central South Amercia) I´ve always gotten the upgrades for me and companion travelers. CO should not be underestimated for the free upgrades and better ability to rack up the points. Their charges for Business First sucks and all but assures there will be few takers.

Anyone worried about accumlated miles with United? I have something like 155,000 and am worried that they might not be here to much longer.

Anyone ever swap miles? I did look arround and it seems that to sell them you only get $00.015 per mile. Doesn't seem worth it.

Think I will be switching my credit card to AA..thanks.....Doc

I'm not worried, I've still got over 200K after booking LAX-BKK biz class for the fall (using FF miles on their partners Singapore Air & Thai Air), and they remain my carrier-of-choice. Of course, I have Premier Exec status, which helps with perks and double miles, and connections at the check-in counter (which helps for upgrades). So I'll even pay (a little) more to fly with them.

Still, I recently got an AA-miles credit card, and will try to use the accumulated FF miles for my next trip to Rio. And United isn't the best airline for SEA, I'm discovering. American doesn't seem to be at all useful for SEA, so I have just applied for a credit card that gives miles usable on any ariline FF program.

United's pension-fund bail-out would seem to give them the financial viability they need. Now if they can only get rid of those old naked stewardesses....

HM is right, IMO, United's most valuable asset is the their loyal FF'ers. I also think the UA FF program is pretty good and not all that bad for ASIA (increasing routes). Whatever happens to UA, I'm sure they wouldn't screw with this FF asset base.

Jettisoning the pension plans does give United a lot of breathing room. Only concern now is that some employees are talking strike. Last thing I heard, all the unions are making headway towards resolving their differences and a strike may be avoided. I doubt the unions would throw the baby out with the bathwater and strike.

Having said all that, I am hedging my bets by using CO (skyteam), just in case, in addition to keeping my miles in UA. Keep our fingers crossed.

Ummm I would go as far to say UAL is better than gold when it comes to SEA travel-- name a better US carrier for SEA?

Star Alliance is the only way to go.


I've aquired 150k in points on AA, and the only way your going to book rewards in Asia is thru Cathay and JAL. Not bad options in a pinch, BUT you got to waste a lot of time dealing with core hubs every flight (nrt and hkg).

I would be happy if they kept their website up.
2 consecutive days now - no united.com
couldn't print my boarding passes

I had heard about a possible strike too, which got me nervous. Also reading that United was asking the bk judge to throw out portions of the union contracts....no wonder those workers are pissed off. But.. it's not like they can just move over to a better deal at another airline. Tough deal.

But as mentioned, not having to pay those costly pensions will make United much more viable. Now I just need more time to use those miles.......thanks for good coments....Doc

The site has worked fine for me the last few days.

Same here.

The miles are good on other carriers, too, maybe better ones for the routes you want (I've been finding Singapore Air & Thai Air fly to places I want to go).

I for one am not looking forward to the airlines getting their shit together. Right now we have a lot of cheap flights, I think that, that is going to come to an end soon.

Fortune magazine has a story about the airline melt down. Here are a few quotes.

"I think it's a concern for our whole society. During the 1990s, before the low-cost carriers became a factor, all of the legacy airlines like United and American agreed to labor pacts which were simply unsustainable. Fast forward to the post-dot-com meltdown, and low-cost carriers like JetBlue have cream skimmed all of the high-density traffic going point to point. The legacy carriers are left with expensive hub-and-spoke operations and it's impossible to compete. So all of them are going to offload their pension obligations on the PBGC [Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation]. It's not just United. They will be lining up just like a bunch of ducks. You know, it could make the S&L [crisis of the 1980s] pale in comparison."

Terminal Illness
The major airlines were praying United would go under. But with a pension bailout in the works, the turbulence is just beginning.
By Shawn Tully


For three brutal years the top brass at America's old-guard airlines have been telling anyone who would listen, off the record of course, that a single watershed event is all they need to put their carriers back on a path to profits: the liquidation of United Air Lines. "It's the best thing that could happen to the industry,"

I think that the future will bring us fewer seats, fewer flights, and higher prices.

RG.

Well so much for USAir-- they going to merger finally... A. West.

All's I care about is they stay in Star Alliance (not sure) and honer existing points (almost a given)

Does anyone know where on the web you could find out
how many flights UAL is cancelling each day in/out
of ORD?
Straightedge

I've been a pretty loyal UA flyer and Premier Exec, but UA's prices are getting outrageous. The fare from LAX-BKK is almost double the cost of Thai Air, so even though I will miss out on the double miles due to my status, I will likely fly Thai Air instead.

I am a platinum on AA and have a FF mile balance of over 300k miles in the account. I have enjoyed AA for many years.

However, the F*uck you fee for using FF miles to upgrade to Business as of last November, and the fact that they nailed me for a $60 fuel fee for my infant son to sit on my lap to CR has me seeing red. In the case of my son, I already had to get him a "lap" ticket which cost 10% of my tickets base price, and then had to pay the $55 or so dolars in Fed taxes and fees, then the $60 fuel fee on top of that. So a $40 lap ticket cost me $152! A 20 lb briefcase, would have cost me nothing and would have burned no more fuel, eaten no more food, taken no more space and required no more service, but would have been free.

In both cases, customer service says the government is MAKING them do it. This is a load of Bull. I also booked a Delta flt DFW-MIA-SJO for a friend, at the last minute. The fare was cheaper, and Delta had no 'fuel charge". As for the government "making" AA charge to use FF miles to upgrade....They must really think their customers are all stupid to buy into that crap...

Grrr.

(Message edited by Valterreekian on June 26, 2005)

Val,

350k miles, AA Platinum/Gold since 1997. Until February, I would have said they were the best US airline, but now with Less Room Throughout Coach and the ridiculous nickle-and-diming, no more for me.

In March, I upgraded (25k miles and $250) from Mexico City-Rio (through Miami) and another 25k/$250 Rio-National on the way back. I was double charged twice, both ways, both miles and dollards. At both Mex and GIG the upgrade was in the system but some chimp at AA never hit whatever key on her keyboard she needed to hit, so I had to wait at the counters for an hour (construction in Mex, usually shittiness of the non-Varig/United GIG terminal) and to top it off, I got hit with the $50 fee for "less than 21 days advance". You know why we pay for less than 21 days? Verbatim, "if it's greater than 21 days, we outsource the processing to the Dominican Republic, which is cheaper, but for under 21 days, we have to use expensive US labor to process the upgrade" Unbelieveable!!! I spent about US$10k on American last year, my average for the past 7-8 years, but at this point they'll get none of my money.

and the fact that they nailed me for a $60 fuel fee for my infant son to sit on my lap to CR has me seeing red. In the case of my son, I already had to get him a "lap" ticket which cost 10% of my tickets base price, and then had to pay the $55 or so dolars in Fed taxes and fees, then the $60 fuel fee on top of that. So a $40 lap ticket cost me $152! A 20 lb briefcase, would have cost me nothing and would have burned no more fuel, eaten no more food, taken no more space and required no more service, but would have been free.

Ahhh, but is there a crying briefcase factor? I'd be completely in favor of charging TRIPLE the passenger fare for screaming brats myself.

Personally, I don't mind the crying babies, as long as they're in coach and I'm upstairs in business class!!

E

United isn't about to disappear. Contracts are being worked out with the different unions without major problems. The problem is the whole industry has problems (at least the major carriers) including many in other countries. All of the airlines are nickel-and-diming all but their most elite customers. They get away with it exactly because they are all doing in; there's no competitive disadvantage in screwing the customer these days. The horror stories I could tell about VARIG...

But I gotta say, Cat, American has really gone down the toilet. At one point I almost switched from United to AA, but am very glad I didn't.

Actually, my son slept almost the entire trip, which was more than I could say for a large number of obnoxious, whiney, selfish adults I had to listen to.

Funny thing, I dropped US Air as my primary carrier two years ago and switched back to United. I live 2 miles from Dulles, a United hub, and I think I was on five United planes over a six year period. Lots of bad memories from Asia flights in the 90's, even though I had high status on United (thanks to a lot of Lufthansa flights), their perks compared to US Air and Northwest really blew.

In 1997, I had at least 50k status on four airlines - United, American, US Air (100k status) and Northwest (100k status). I always liked American, right up until this spring.

I guess I'll keep United as my primary - they are stingy with upgrades and from Dulles, it's a lot of regional jets, but at least the flights are usually direct non-stop and these days, all the airlines suck so the less time spent on them the better. I used to not mind sitting in first class but connecting in Pittsburg or Charlotte, now I just want to get where I'm going as fast as possible.

I tried out Delta as a second airline - I've never really flown them much over the years - but I don't like their new "not really standby" mandatory pay for standby. Good snack service in coach though, having a flight attendent walk around with a basket and you get to select one bag of something (chips, pretzels, animal crackers, cheese n' crackers, a few others) is smart, it can't cost much but people love a choice.

I guess I'll keep enough status on American so that when I go somewhere United doesn't fly or has horrible coverage (like Central America, or Arizona/New Mexico/Texas) at least I can board early and occasionally upgrade. It's not so much that American hasn't gone to shit, its just that there aren't any better alternatives.

Val, don't all brats on long haul flights???

My most recent flight to Rio was on American business class. We got served all the appropriate meals. The people in the back got a free coke and the right to purchase sack lunches. The funniest moment was when the stewardess announced that they had only enough sack lunches (for sale) for about half the economy section and that she hopped the people in the far back would understand. At that moment I was trying to decide if I wanted the seafood appetizer with leak soup or the small steak.

Admirals Club vs. the United counterpart...the Admirals Club in LAX and Dallas offer complementary coffee, fruit and cookies. Also comfy lounging chairs with headphones. I believe the Dallas hub has showers and a small exercise room. What perks do the United lounges offer?

I'm regular AA, having earned between 2-3 million miles so far. But I'm glad they charge the $250 fee for upgrading, that will keep more seats open for the seriously loyal flyers (with VIPs or enough miles to use F).

But, yes, AA does fee the hell out of you, unless you are EXP (then no fees for less-than-21-days), and unlike DL, AA allows same-day standby for no fee.

Hey, anyone who wants to eat onboard should bring their own. Charging for coach meals really shouldn't impact anyone who wants to eat, unless strange enough to want to eat the airline food.

I doubt the airlines will cut food on long international flights. Americans may put up with shit like that but not foreigners who expect more from an airline. I guess Tight Fit was talking about a domestic portion of his trip to Rio, because American does serve a regular coach dinner meal after departure and a croissant and a bit more for breakfast, both ways.

Solid 808, since Dulles is now the main point for South America flights for United, I can give you a good rundown since it's my home airport.

United's main service flights are out of the C and D concourses, with the international flights (lots to Europe, three to South America, a few to Central America) are out of C. There are three Red Carpet clubs at Dulles. A small one at D7 that is ok, the carpet sucks but they have a lot of free drinks (from fridges) plus a bar, they usually have some snacks out. The one at C-17 is the main one, it is really nice - large bar, lots of free drinks from the fridges and snacks, conference room, etc.

There is a small regular club up around C-6, which is a little closer to where most of the international flights depart. That club sucks, it's old and they don't have the mini-fridges, so just bar stuff. They tend to be short on snacks and the chairs and everything are pretty old. There is an International First Class lounge, not really Red Carpet but it's pretty nice, just up from the C-6 Red Carpet.

FYI, the C and D concourses are "temporary" - they have been for 15 years and will continue to be for another 5-10. The concourses are drab and crowded, but not the worse I've seen.

IMHO, the main American club, the new one in the C concourse at DFW, is one of the nicest clubs I've ever seen domestically. The United club at SFO is excellent as well, the one in LA is a bit dumpier. I spend a lot of time in Red Carpet clubs, all over, so I would say pick the airline you plan to fly first, then join the club.

By the way, as far as American is concerned, the Miami clubs suck bigtime. The only real club is outside security (a useless fucking spot) at the E concourse, the temporary facility at D is a joke. No bathroom, no bar, they just walled in a side area on one of the concourses, put in some floodlights and a fridge and call it a club. Pathetic.

Any of you AA guy's wanna trade some of your mileage tix's for some United/Star Alliance tix's?

I'm not bailing on United, I just wanna trade!

The one country United/Star A is really weak to is Colombia (at least from Calif). And American has a pretty good presence in Col., they fly to MDE, CLO, and BOG.

How about you Flhobbyer?

Or anyone else? PM me, thanks. sf4dfish

Hey Catocony, IAD is my homebase also. Hit me up when you get a chance so I can glean some of your Brazil knowledge (I'm a Far East monger...)

Thank you Catocony

Blimpy, inbox me any time. There are quite a few DC-area mongers, evenly split between Asia and South America.

Sf4dfish, let's stay in touch on that one.

For now all my trips are to AA type destinations (Colombia, Rio which only AA does nonstop from MIA, BA which again AA is best, etc.).

But maybe a New Year trip on Varig or maybe in six months or so I'll be looking into an Asia trip an UA will come in handy.

I'd be talking F tix...

FLhobbyer, I don't want to fly coach either.

Whenever you're ready? Let's do it! sf4dfish

I just cashed in 80,000 United miles to go to Rio in August with a "standard" award. I've still got 80k miles on American for the next trip. I don't mind flying coach if it saves more money for the garotas.

Well, you can use that 80k on AA for two different round trips, if you go both during low season. And, if you use the Citibank promo code you can get them for about 8k less for each. I hate UA - AA is much better...

OK, for you United experts, I have many, many FF miles, and I was wondering about using them to get a business class seat via Star Alliance, the chart says that 90,000 miles will do that.

Really? Are there seats available LAX-BKK?

Try Thai Airways through United award reservations. You may have to be flexible on the dates.

Well, now I can finally take a deep breath and sleep better at nights knowing that all my UA FF miles are safe.

UA finally got their Reorganization Plan confirmed by the Court this Firday and is now ready to emerge from bankruptcy in early Feb. 06. Hopefully as leaner, meaner airline. They'll still have to comply with all their promises to repay creditors per the plan but things are looking good as UA seems to have come out of the woods.

http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,6862,53592,00.html

I am sitting on 300K FF miles, so this is a Good Thing for me.

And I'm happy to rack up FF miles on United that I can redeem for Singapore Air biz class tickets to Asia. Finally, someone treats me the way I deserve (and the cute FA's almost make up for the old bags on United--almost).

ditto that Hman!

I'm off to a good start in '06. I've got 38k miles thus far for january

Bigger sigh of relief...I'm sitting on 1300K FF miles!

Given what I have experienced on some of the United flights I have flown on, I'm somehow not surprised by this:

United international flight diverted after captain, attendant fight

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/item.aspx?type=blog&ak=68494674.blog

Sao Paulo to Chicago, or at least that was supposed to be the flight plan before the diversion. I'm just hoping it was one of the absolutely awful flight attendants (as compared to some of the rest, who tend towards mediocrity) I have had the "pleasure" of flying with back when I flew United between the U.S. and Brasil.

Oh, that's pretty bizarre! One or both are going to get hammered by the company, as diverting a flight is costly and pisses off lots of people. I bet we never hear what actually went on between them.

"ordered the purser of the Boeing 767 to leave the aircraft because 'he' was not respecting his authority."

Looks like it was a male flight attendant that was involved, unless it was a typo.

H1

Airlines and massage parlors are like a box of cho-co-lat-es. One person can get great service time and time again, and the next person could get totally screwed-over. Therefore, you never know what your going to get.

Although each airline may have varying slants on the perks they provide; overall, airlines are only as good as the service their employees provide. All it takes is one bad gate/aircraft crew to alter our impression of that airline.

I mostly fly American, UAL, Continental, Delta and Northwest. I've been screwed in one way or another by each of them, but I've also had good flights on each as well.

I picked AA as my favorite routine airline simply because I carry the most FF miles with them and they typically fly to locations where I like to go. My overall favorite airline (after only one trip) was TACA. They had at least 2 additional flight attendants compared to the size of the crew provided by US carriers. Their employees at the gate and on the flight seemed genuinely concerned to provide the best service possible. I hope I get a chance to fly them again.

AJ

That crew must have been flying by the seat of their wet pants! Unless a medical emergency was involved, whatever problem arose between the crew members involved should have been handled on the ground upon arrival.

CFK

Apparently the United/Continental merger is going to have quit an impact on both equipment and flight attendants, witness: