Ok, so there are some bad people in Libya, no doubt. We send jet fighters and missiles. Blow up the entire place. Then what next? Ground troops? Do we occupy the country? Who are the rebels exactly and what do they believe in? Who are we fighting for?

Libya should have a democracy, but I do not think the United States should be meddeling in their affairs. Remember Vietnam? Remember Iraq? What exactly did we accomplish there?

The best course of action is inaction and I feel this weekend's festivities in Iraq...errr...Libya only bring us closer to another decade long occupation.

Assume the former Libyan justice minister Mustafa Abdel-Jalil is telling the truth when he recently stated it was Khadafi who ordered the bombing of Pan Am flight 103, on which a majority of those killed were Americans. Does this change your equation at all, or in your view should we just let bygones be bygones and instead spend our time looking for and posting pictures of Obama playing golf?

As long as it's only bombing and no troops on the ground, I'm fine with it.

It's totally awesome if you work for a company that makes cruise missile parts.

I think we should act on facts, and not assumptions, before we launch missiles, drop bombs or involve ourselves in any type of military intervention.

Lets say, for example, that he was involved in all sorts of terrorist schemes against the United States such as Pan Am 103 and that we know that to be a fact (versus an assumption). Then, IMHO, we still have to move carefully. First, we have to know the consequences of taking out Gaddafi. Who is going to be left behind to fill the power void? Who are these "rebels" exactly? Keep in mind the United States made this mistake before by training the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. In essence, the United States is the country that made Al-Qaeda. Second, we have to have a plan on how to take care of Libya once Gaddafi is gone. Once we rain down all our bombs and missiles, what will happen next? The truth is that Gaddafi may be just fine after the various bombing runs and the ones who suffer will probably be the civilians. Finally, we should not send American boys to do a job that Arab boys should be doing. If Arab boys do not do this job, then there might be left over resentment which then creates another Al-Qaeda.

So I believe that we need to move carefully in any scenario. Sending in our troops and using our military is not the answer. The Arab League should be using all its resources to reign in Gadaffi and then only after careful consideration of the various consequences.

The ultimate truth might be that we were better off with Gadaffi in power. What we do know is there are no good leaders in the Middle East and there is absolutely no one we can trust. I believe we are better off letting the European and mid-east countries deal with Libya then directly involving America. They are the ones that are closest to Libya and so they should get involved in such police actions and nation building.

America is many thousands of miles away from that. The American military should not be involved in policing the world or nation building. Neither Russia nor China involves themselves and I believe the USA should follow that example.

Here is another thought. Gaddafi does have weapons of mass destruction unlike Iraq. He does have chemical weapons and he may have biological weapons. He does have explosives and extensive ties to terrorist groups or at least that is what we strongly suspect.

The US leading the way into this might mean future terrorist attacks against the United States or in Europe in ways that we do not know about.

My stance is for the US not to get involved in such disputes. In fact, I did agree with Obama on getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan when he was a candidate. However, he has not really made good on that campaign promise. The longer we remain and meddle in the Middle East the more pain will come in the future.

A policy of non-involvement is the best idea.

Please provide specific information showing that Obama the candidate said he planned to withdraw from Afghanistan after becoming President. Not a link to some fuzzy opinion piece, but a news report demonstrating that he actually promised this.

I believe it is likely another one of your numerous false "facts," but I'm not positive so here is your chance to prove me wrong about my view that for Portege "fact" equals fiction.

Protege states " we should act on facts, and not assumptions", so the fact that some dictator is bombing his own populations right on display on CNN is not a fact? So you basically feel that the International community should just say "Not our problem"?

Obama only authorized the use of force after other nations, like Britain, France and members of the Arab League agreed to it as well. Also, so far you are providing alot of speculative critism about things that are not facts yet - the only option (so far) on the table for US involvement is air strikes, no ground invasion.

What is even more baffeling to me is your statement that -IF - Gaddafi actually had weapons of mass destruction unlike Iraq, such as chemical weapons, extensive ties to terrorist groups, etc, the US should do nothing? I guess you forget that terrorist's pretty much target US interests, so why - if that was actually proven - the US should not act?

How exactly does your policy of non-involvement make any sense whatsoever?

If you truly believe in the policy of non-involvement, instead of critizing Obama for playing golf you should have critized him for not playing more during the Japan disaster, correct?

He said that he would "end the war" and get both out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Here is a factcheck.org radio address debunking the myths.

http://factcheck.org/Images/image/radio/FactCheckRadio_episode19.mp3

His original timetable out of Iraq was 16 months. Are we now out of Iraq and combat operations have ceased? Well, you can look at the casualty reports for yourself to determine if we have left Iraq. Clearly there is still a presence.

http://icasualties.org/Iraq/Fatalities.aspx

The current promise is to start withdrawing out of Afghanistan by July 2011. Quite honestly, by Christmas of this year there will still be Americans dieing in both Iraq, Afghanistan and soon to be Libya.

The more we get involved with the Middle East, the worse it gets. We only get drawn further into the conflict. It only pisses people off more and no one wins.

"so the fact that some dictator is bombing his own populations right on display on CNN is not a fact? So you basically feel that the International community should just say "Not our problem"?"

Yes, the United States should say "this isnt our problem", it isnt our fight and let the Arab nations handle it. All of the Arab nations have sizable Armies and modern Air Forces mostly equipped with US-made equipment. It is not our place to intervene in these matters.

Now if we are meddeling in Libya, why not in Yemen where protesters are being shot? Why not in Bahrain? The more we meddel with the different countries and choose sides the more trouble we get into. We should just wash our hands of this and let the Arab boys do what American boys should not be doing.

"Obama only authorized the use of force after other nations, like Britain, France and members of the Arab League agreed to it as well."

Thats what they say, but what do you believe. It sure looks like America seems to be taking sizable role in this and leading the way. I am of the opinion that America should not be involved at all.

"What is even more baffeling to me is your statement that -IF - Gaddafi actually had weapons of mass destruction unlike Iraq, such as chemical weapons, extensive ties to terrorist groups, etc, the US should do nothing?"

Has Gaddafi's weaponry ever surfaced somewhere outside of Libya? Possibly, maybe in Afghanistan or Iraq, but then again, it probably hasnt. So if Gaddafi is eliminated then the armory will be opened up and who knows where that stuff will go next. All that stuff will disappear quickly.

"How exactly does your policy of non-involvement make any sense whatsoever? If you truly believe in the policy of non-involvement, instead of critizing Obama for playing golf you should have critized him for not playing more during the Japan disaster, correct?"

Easy. The countries that have stayed out of the middle east have not experienced terrorist acts on their soil. Those countries are safe and secure. If you keep meddeling in these foreign countries, then it gives them reason to attack you. The smart policy is to let them alone and let them solve their own problems. Being the world's policeman and nation builder only complicates things and it hasnt worked ever.

As for Japan, that is a different story. We have been very close friends with Japan for many decades. Japan is pro-American and welcomes our presence. I've never seen any Japanese burning flags in the street and they have supported us for a while. If they invite America to help them out, then we should help them anyway we can because we have been friends for so long. The Middle East...clearly a different story.

As for Obama playing golf. During any crisis, a leader should be in a place where he can manage, lead and communicate effectively. If there is trouble in the world, then his place is the White House situation room or other such area where he can dive into the situation. I feel the golf course is not the place to be when such executive leadership is needed and expected. If your company was having issues, then would it be customary for the executive leadership to take vacations and go on outings?

Why isn't it any surprise the Reagan Worshipers start whining when Obama has to go clean up Saint Ronnies 1986 blunder.

The world has had about enough of Moammar Ghadafi and Obama acted responsibly by waiting for a United Nations resolution before sending in USA weaponry.

I cannot say that Libya will be much better off when the rebels take over, but it is hard to imagine things getting much worse than under the current dictatorship.

What about Bahrain? Will a no-fly zone be established in Bahrain as well? Isnt Bahrain ruled by a ruthless dictator?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110321/ts_nm/us_bahrain_protests

Anybody who equates Bahrain with Libya is a complete idiot. Portege, why don't you go to a different site with your political turd droppings? No one here really cares what a proven idiot such as yourself thinks. The very fact that you're spouting Republican talking points has probably convinced a few Hombres to support Obama.

One thing I'm pretty sure of is there are no decent mongering spots in any of these places. Therefore, I don't give a shit what they do to each other...

Most Arab women are not all that attractive and have excessive hair in odd places on their bodies. All the more reason to let them treat each other the way they see fit...

The U.S. should only send our sons to places they can enjoy a little mongering on their well deserved time off...

Portege: I called you out on your apparently false claim that Obama when he ran for President said he planned to withdraw from Afghanistan. I indicated though I wasn't 100 percent certain that Obama did not say this so I gave you the opportunity to present some "facts" in support of your claim.

In response to my challenge you presented an audio clip where buried at the end of a number of topics, it was stated that Obama, AFTER HE BECAME PRESIDENT (NOT AS A CANDIDATE), said he would BEGIN withdrawing some troops from Afghanistan in late 2011. The clip YOU PROVIDED specifically said the claim by McCain that Obama said all troops would be withdrawn by late 2011 was FALSE.

Now some might be wondering why I would even bother to call a liar (now confirmed by your own clip) a liar, particularly since from almost day one you lost all credibility on this board by calling board veterans who truthfully related the pricing in Thailand liars. Why try to point out that someone who has no credibility here has no credibility?

Well, as one of the posts above indicates, some are oblivious to your history of presenting false facts about mongering, about politics, and also your history of insulting those on the board who provide correct facts (as was the case with the prices in Thailand), or even post pictures you don't find attractive. And some may even be susceptible to believing your lies, especially when they are repeated over and over again. So, when you lie, there is merit in pointing this out, even if it results in your idiotic political threads remaining alive.

The insidious nature of the "lying process" is well-illustrated by the scum who "swift-boated" John Kerry, a true war hero whose military career progression was merit-based, not family-connection based. As ludicrous as the lies about Kerry were, enough people believed them (after they were repeated over and over again) to cost Kerry (and the Democrats) the Presidency. I suppose for this reason it is appropriate, perhaps even obligatory, to call liars liars when it comes to political lies, whether posted here, or disseminated elsewhere.

And while we are on the topic of disrespect for war heros, something you played up earlier in this thread when some of us recited verifiable facts about Politician McCain's military career, where was Portege's outrage when rather than point to verifiable unfavorable facts about a politician's military career (as we did about politician McCain), a bunch of swift-boaters spread lies (not verifiable facts) about another politican who was a genuine war hero? I realize you were not a member here then, but please tell us on which websites you posted your outrage about that attack on a true military hero.

I've said it before on this board, Portege, you are a hypocrite. Let me add, also an habitual liar. Incredible that you would try to support one of your lies by presenting an audio clip that essentially says "Portege is a liar." But somehow I am not at all surprised.

First, this part of Clubhombre is titled "Off Topic" and "Politics" or whatever its called. You can't expect to come to this part of the site and see the same mongering reports as on other parts of the site. If you do not enjoy or appreciate this part of the site, then by all means, don't read or participate in it.

Second, Bahrain is similar to Libya in many respects. In fact, most of these Arab countries are similar to Libya in many different respects such as:

- there is no form of democracy and they are either ruled by one or a very few

- violence against protesters was used in Bahrain and other Arab nations

- none of the Arab nations are angels and their entire system could be overhauled in ways of human and civil rights. Even Saudi Arabia, which is supposed to be one of the better Arabic nations, has many civil and human rights concerns.

Third, Obama did say he would "end this war" many times as a candidate. I took that to mean he would end the war completely with a full withdrawl from the Middle East. Well, that hasnt happened in Iraq and certainly not in Afghanistan.

Fourth, there are certain individuals in this forum who are quick to use the word "liar", "lying", "hypocrite", "scum" and other such extreme profane language. Notice how I have not introduced language like that in this thread. I did not call any of Obama's speeches or policies lies (although I did say that some people might consider them to be like that). I never used any extreme profane language against anyone in this thread and that is because I respect your opinion no matter how flawed I believe it to be.

So, please take a moment to think before you introduce extreme language into a political thread. Extreme language does not reinforce or strengthen your opinion and, in fact, weakens the debate. It is a serious debate because lives hang in the balance. Every day, another American dies in the Middle East and that is weak if all you have to say is something profane in the middle of a political debate.

I had some very happy moments during the Bush years. There were some twists and turns here and there during those 8 years, but there were a lot of good memories. Now, it seems every time I open a news site or read a paper there is another Obama scandal. I deeply respect Obama because he has taken a lot of flak during his time in office. I have never seen a man age so quickly within the course of 2-3 years. It almost looks like Obama is headed for a stroke and I wouldnt be surprised if that happened.

Nice try Portege. Lying does not contribute in any positive way to political debates. So please stop.

159 Tomahawks fired off so far..... Wooo Hooo!!!!.. They're gonna' be needin' to order some more of them things there. That's a bunch of good payin' American manufacturing jobs that can't be outsourced to the Chinese. You can call it 'stimulus'.

I'm glad to see at least one thinking man's conservative--who actually tells it as it is rather than making shit up--has joined this thread.

(Message edited by laguy on March 21, 2011)

You Libs.....


All the bashing about Bush and when Obama does basically the same thing you make excuses for your butt buddy who you worship.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/mar/18/obamas-illegal-war/

I would imagine Beachman is addressing the all-important premature aging issue Portege brought up.

I take political discussions and debates very seriously. As I said, lives and property are both on the line in a big way.

I can see that some here do not take this as seriously and seek to throw off the debate through different conversational strategies. Just remember, there are Americans that get killed in the Middle East almost every day. The faces are real, the people are real and I have been to a few funerals. I would never dis-respect someone else's opinion in the debate and use words as "lying" to describe the other person's conversation.

When you go to that booth in 2012 and push the button or pull that handle, then remember its not just about topics like abortion or taxes, but its about real American lives that hang in the balance. Obama said he was going to "end this war" and I dont see how it has ended. In fact, it looks like a new one has started and already we are seeing lives hang in the balance. Just the other day, a plane was shot down and thankfully those pilots were rescued. I do not want to see our country embark down the trail of being the world's policeman or nation builder. I would like our military to be used strictly in defense of the country and not to solve the internal conflicts of countries such as Libya.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42203513/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/

"I take political discussions and debates very seriously."

You have to be joking. I'm still waiting on your explanation of that "escalating taxes" remark. If you really took anything seriously, then you would respond.

My answer to that is to simply look at your healthcare premiums, the price of gasoline and many other different costs. As I have stated previously, I consider these other costs to be taxes just like "income taxes". Government is doing its best not to raise the "income tax", however, they have placed pressure upon business through increased regulation. When you increase regulation on business then they simply pass the cost on to the consumer and I consider that a tax. I will give you one example if you cannot imagine this simple concept. Think about the Runway Delay Penalty. As a result of this rule, it does cost airlines in many ways and those costs are simply passed on to the person who buys the ticket. In that same way, there are many new regulations which are indirectly increasing your costs. There are also many new inspectors that have been hired under Obama and enforcement has picked up.

I know some of you hate links to outside articles, but I need to put one in order to demonstrate exactly what I am talking about.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/13/us/politics/13rules.html?pagewanted=all

In this article, it talks about the many new regulations under Obama and how it has increased cost for business.

I hope this answered your question in regards to "escalating taxes". No, the individual "income tax" rate at the federal level has not increased(although it has increased at the state and municipal level in certain areas). However, there are a lot of other items that have increased. Pressure has been placed upon business through new regulation and heightened enforcement of existing regulation. The costs are then passed on silently to the consumer. This is what I consider to be an "escalating tax". These hidden costs will not end under Obama. Of course, if you are a homeless bum, then these hidden taxes obviously have not increased for you.

(Message edited by Portege on March 22, 2011)

As I said when you go to the polls in 2012, you will have to justify your decision somehow. For me, I will think of my family, my friends and even those kids going to school. How about those kids? When they get out of high school or college will they have the same job opportunities as you did? Will their only opportunity be the armed forces? Im not going to just think for myself, but think for other people.

My stated opinion is that I dont believe Obama will be helpful to those kids when it comes time to get a job. This recovery has been weak. Many different economists, businesses and even Alan Greenspan have come forward to say that Obama is hurting the recovery. I dont want to wish upon the kids this economy in the future. I dont think we can afford another 4 years of Obama and so its time to give someone else a turn whether it be Romney, Huckabee or someone else. I dont see how it can keep going like this and I wouldnt want to wish it upon the children.

Only an idiot would equate buying gas to being a tax. If you mean a "cost", then yes, they're both something you spend money on.

The price of gas on the Nymex, according to stockcharts.com, is $3 a gallon, but when I pull up to the pumps its like a dollar more. What happened? There are a ton of taxes added on. Lets not mention that many of Obama's policies against oil drilling and off-shore drilling did not exactly make the price of oil cheaper. I do equate that to taxes as the government has encouraged the rise of oil and lumped taxes on it at the pump.

I have a few more questions. What if it was Bush that ordered the bombing of Libya and this happened in 2007? Do you think that Obama the Candidate would have been for or against it? You and I know that Obama would have taken to the television set and used it as a campaign issue.

Lets look at it from another angle. Obama received the Nobel Peace Prize, but there is nothing that he has done to encourage peace. Is bombing Libya encouraging peace? Is sending more troops into Afghanistan encouraging peace? I used to have great respect for that prize until they handed it to a man who is responsible for only encouraging war. He has not made good on his promises of ending the war. There are still occupation forces in Afghanistan and Iraq and coffins fly home each week.

One day I hope that Congress will invoke the War Powers Act and bring the troops home.

Are you that fucking stupid? What is the federal gasoline tax? What is your state's gas tax? Add those two up, and it's your tax on a gallon of gas. The federal gas tax hasn't changed since the early 90s. When did your state last change it's gas tax?

By the way, did you buy your gas from Nymex at a Nymex gas station at a Nymex refinery? Or, did you buy it at a PRIVATELY-OWNED gas station, which needs to make a profit to pay the rent, pay the employees, the insurance, the pumps, all of that in addition to the gasoline they resold to you. By the way, the gas you bought was transported by a PRIVATELY-OWNED tanker operator who also has to make a profit to pay for the driver, the insurance, the rig, the accounting system and everything else.

Or are you just so fucking stupid that you, oh nevermind, when you wrote your first trip report about a place you had never been to, that pretty much put you in the dumbass category.

Obama has lost his leftwing political base now. It is amazing to me that he jumped into this quagmire in Libya. I mean how stupid can you get???????

In spite of what Michael (the nazi) Savage says, the political left is really pissed off now at Obama. Dennis Kucinich and many others are up in arms. I am a leftist and I am really pissed at this point. The fucker is just another dupe of the military/industrial complex. He has sold us out.

Catocony, I will not stoop to your level of name calling which is none too classy IMHO. As I said, this is a serious debate in which people's lives hang in the balance. It amazes me how you can sit here and treat these important issues. In any event, your name calling does not bother me, but is a reflection on yourself and your true person. If this is how you like to represent yourself, then go ahead.

My first trip report was about Angeles City and I have been going there for well over a decade BTW. I would appreciate if you stayed on-topic in this thread and had some respect for this sites "Terms of Service". The language you are using is vulgar and abusive. I dont believe you have any respect either for this site or yourself so you go down this path of vulgarity. Be my guest as its clearly not a reflection on me.

(Message edited by Portege on March 23, 2011)

This is a whoremongering board, not Daily Kos. We can say shit and fuck and everything else on here. Now, about those gasoline taxes, do you have an actual answer? Didn't think so.

The thing is, Catocony, is that you are using a destructive messageboard conversational strategy to throw the thread off and to disuade me from responding or posting further. That strategy will not work as I will keep responding. Furthermore, it is a destructive strategy that usually tears message boards apart leaving harsh feelings and it also brings a shadowy curtain down upon yourself. Hey, but what do you care about respecting the board? You dont have any money or time invested in this board so you use destructive techniques to have a good laugh and promote your own self interests. Who cares about Hombre? Right? Anyway, I am going to continue on point with this discussion despite your destructive conversational strategy.

I saw an article today by K.T. McFarland which was interesting about limiting the wars we fight vs. fighting limited wars.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/03/22/airstrikes-libya-welcome-brave-new-world-obama-doctrine/

(Message edited by Portege on March 23, 2011)

The funniest thing is that Portege has repeatedly spoken for CH like he is a founding member or an admin here. I see he has quoted the TOS twice in a month and now he is attempting to direct CH.

I miss the days of Bammer, Masterbates and Beachman, Milkman, Kendricks and of course WestFargo. They were all amazing writers with high intelligence. Arguments are a reality for all message boards. I used to look forward to reading the written challenges and arguments of the good writers.

Now, we have Portege.

I never said I was an English teacher or college professor. However, that doesnt make my opinions any less valid. If you dont like what is being written, then you dont have to read or participate in the discussion. Many times people will hit the "1 Day Search" button, see something written and feel they must insert themselves into the discussion. You dont have to be here if you dont want to be. Not all discussions are meant to be read.

The reason why I quote the TOS is because I respect the site and hope that everyone here has that same respect.

D00d, I have been here since RedSnake. But you're right, I will not post on this anymore - but you are not the boss of CH and are in my eyes a Newbie.

Oh to relive the days of RedSnake and thinking that TJ was the shit.

Has it really been 11 or 12 years since RedSnake went toes-up? Even though we've all moved on from Mexico, I do wish the Mexico board was still alive here on CH.

WOW, this thread sure is weird. It's all over the map. I'm going to hi-jack the thread to help me understand how any American can support the puppet who is now flying air-support for al-Qaeda. Here is the interview with the Libyan rebel commander. He states al-Qaeda freedom fighters who fought against the US millary is now fighting against Ghadafi. And the US air force is flying fighter cover for them! Ok, someone explain how this happens?

The article is here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html

In political threads on internet forums, its fairly common for someone to disagree with the discussion to come in and hijack the thread. Usually the hi-jack involves unrelated banter, personal attacks and other such conversational strategies.

The best you can do is stay on topic and ignore these obvious attempts at squelching discussion. America is a free country yet there are so many of its citizens who focus on ways to squelch discussion. If you really believe in the Constitution and especially if you were in the military, then you would look down upon such thread-jacking manuevers and encourage discussion rather then thinking of ways to squelch it.

Portege, you obviously have no clue about the constitution and what it means. It, for example, forbids the government from infringing citizens' freedom of speech. It doesn't deprive citizens who wish to call trolls what they are, or who wish to point out that someone is posting stupid shit, of their freedom of speech.

For that matter, the constitution doesn't forbid trolls who do such things as posting "ugh" in response to other Club Hombre members' pictures (as Portege did), or doing other similarly rude and offensive things on this board.

Fortunately, the constitution does not forbid me (or anyone else) from re-posting some of Portege's rude posts that helped him establish his reputation on this board as a troll not worthy of respect by other members of this board:

PORTEGE NUMBER ONE:

By Portege on Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - 07:57 am:

Ugh!!! This is one trip report that would have been better WITHOUT pictures.

**********

Here is Portege insulting a board member who spent the time to submit an informative trip report

PORTEGE NUMBER TWO:

Portege on Saturday, December 18, 2010 - 10:18 pm:

I will not read one word of a report without a photo of something. If you dont want to share photos of the ladies with us, then at least take a picture of the room and general scene.

Even if you lose your camera or it got stolen still no excuse. Go buy a disposable film camera.

This report should just be a chat threat without pics.

**********

Or, how about this one, another example of how polite Portege is to other members of this board

PORTEGE NUMBER THREE:

Portege on Monday, December 06, 2010 - 05:27 pm:

Hombre should take out the last woman in black with the hairy arms and comical face. That picture is simply disrespecting this website and Colombia. Dude! My arms have more hair on them then that chick. I didnt read parts of the report because I thought Blazers was going to tell us how he poked that chick with the hairy arms. I did not want to lose my appetite for the next week or so. I do need to eat food.

**********

Or how about this series of Portege posts, where the site administrator had to step in to "correct" Portege's unjustifiable insults directed to another board member

PORTEGE NUMBER FOUR:

Portege on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 05:02 pm

Sorry guys, I am calling "bullshit" on this report. Let go into exacting detail:

- There are watermarks in two photos in the first batch. www.darienx.com and www.sofocus.net. Those are websites of photographers in the DR.

- Every picture in the first batch of photos was taken in a different room. Were there 5 or 6 hotel rooms involved over the course of 4 days?

- In photo 4 (last batch) there is a date on one of the photos saying 15/09/2010 then on the boat it says 21/01/2010.

- The photographs look like they were collectively taken by different cameras. Some look done with SLRS while others look like a cellphone cam.

My guess is the pictures were farmed from different websites.

*****

By Portege on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 05:07 pm:

I also looked at the pictures of the rooms that the poster provided versus whats on the web. They do not look similar. Where are these ladies exactly in the photos?

http://www.hideawaybeachresort.com/vacation_rental_gallery.php

If the pictures uploaded were provided by the women, then where are the photos that you took?

*****

By Admin on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 06:01 pm:

It seemed fairly obvious from the report and follow-up posts as well as how CH integrates photos that this would be self-explanatory, but apparently not.

"I thought it would be best to include some of the pics that I received before the trip so you could all see the girls that were with us."

The photos that are not integrated into the galleries were not taken by the writer, the photos that are integrated were taken by the writer or friends.

More gallery photos, including candid photos of the Venezuelan in the professional photos, will be posted soon.

**********

There are, of course, countless many other Portege examples scattered like turd droppings throughout this website.

So, Portege, how about ceasing your "oh, everyone is being so rude to me for no good reason" hypocrisy act?

stop feeding the monkeys bananas portege

LAGuy is using another "conversational strategy" to squelch the debate. Instead of attacking the message, he attacks the messenger, because he can't form a strong enough argument against the actual message. You can type what you want, but if you go down this road then I am free to point out what I believe you are doing.

I would not focus on attacking the messanger, but study the message and reply accordingly. The current message is about Obama and Libya. Lives hang in the balance and its a very important issue IMHO.

My critical critique of past trip reports is not an issue that should be debated here. That is not on-topic and has no merit in this thread. The area of the site this thread is located in is "Off Topic" and "Politics" The thread is clearly labeled as a debate of Obama in Libya. My past critique of trip reports does not align with what is being discussed and being used to throw the debate off. If you want to know about trolling, LAGuy, then just read what you posted. Those are classic trolling techniques of throwing off debate and discussion in legitimate threads.

Do me a favor? Read the news, digest it and then come back to discuss the issues. Dont come back here posting some stuff about how I called out some guy for stealing a photo from some modeling website and then reposting it as a trip report.

Actually, numerous times I have attacked Portege's supposed message by pointing out (and documenting) that often what he presents as facts in the political threads are lies. I also have presented well-reasoned arguments in support of my political beliefs although as with all things political others may disagree with some or all of my conclusions.

I challenge any objective observer to state otherwise after reading through my posts.

However, there is no reason why doing this--presenting documented facts and well-reasoned political arguments--should preclude one from pointing out that Portege has consistently acted essentially like a troll on this website, and that many of his posts critizing others for their demeanor here are hypocritical.

If Portege doesn't have the "bandwidth" to be able to process more than what he himself writes in "his" threads, or what conforms to his own "rules" about what others should write, fuck him and his sanctimony.

Redbus + Portege = a taco and a burrito shy of a combination plate.

Message boards like this one are all about stating your opinion, discussing and debating. Im not representing as fact that Obama is not the best leader in the world...that is just my opinion. Having an opinion on the issues is American and trying to squelch my opinion by calling me a liar is not very American.

Laguy, if you want to legitimately discuss and debate the issues then you are perfectly welcome to do so. However, please refrain from personal attacks, off-topic discussion and off-the-wall accusations. Its not very classy. If I offend you or you dont like me, then you can simply stop reading and participating in my posts. If you are here just to harass me then I refer you to the "Terms of Service" of the board which keeps this place from turning into the Yahoo Finance message board. In short, intelligent debate is welcome, but destructive conduct is not.

Back to the topic at hand. I was reading an article today and it made me think about Japan. Obama could have used the resources he is using to bomb Libya to help Japan. Japan has been a good friend since World War II...not just an ally, but a good friend. They have been closer to America then certain other so called allies like France. Obama could have ordered that carrier they are using to bomb Libya with to sail to Japan and help them out. I am certain the Japanese would welcome any help right now no matter what form it takes.

When I listen to Obama's speech tonight, I want to know why Obama diverted resources to bomb Libya when he should have been helping Japan. In fact, if I were him, I would get every ship and plane I could find and send over all those unemployed people to help the Japanese. Send a few million of our unemployed to help rebuild their nation and get it going again.

I guess there are no easy answers and nothing is simple, but certainly we could have done better by helping Japan then bombing Libya. Yep, I am stating that as my opinion if some here couldnt figure that out. If you mistook that as fact, then I guess thats my bad...

Dipshit, what resources used to bomb Libya - that being fighter aircraft, tankers, electronic warfare and other assets based in nearby Europe - would be used for Japan? How does an F-16 or an F-18 help out tsunami rescue efforts?

As to the rest, maybe you haven't notice that Clubhombre isn't a message board, it's a site about mongering? If you want to have pro-Republican chats, I suggest you go to a conservative web site and chat away.

Portege is a delusional crippled elderly guy...let him have his fun.

"Dipshit, what resources used to bomb Libya - that being fighter aircraft, tankers, electronic warfare and other assets based in nearby Europe - would be used for Japan? How does an F-16 or an F-18 help out tsunami rescue efforts?"

The resources are dollars which are being spent at an incredible rate in this new campaign. The estimates I have seen have demonstrated about $500 million in costs. The 200 Tomahawk cruise missiles alone cost $1-2 million per missile. It costs about $10,000 an hour to operate one of those aircraft. Another resource is manpower. The manpower for this mission could have been used in Japan. Personnel can be easily flown or shipped out to a destination. Yet another resource is the ships. A carrier group can use its unique abilities to provide humanitarian aid and it does have helicopters and other aircraft that could assist. So, yes, they could have diverted some resources used for this strike to Japan. America's ability to help other nations is now spread thin with its forces committed to fight Libya.

A reactor in Japan continues melting down out of control. People are dieing and suffering. Obama could have used the funds, manpower and equipment to help Japan, but that is not the path he is taking. In fact, I have not heard one speech so far where he has told us he was going to dedicate US resources to helping Japan.

"As to the rest, maybe you haven't notice that Clubhombre isn't a message board, it's a site about mongering? If you want to have pro-Republican chats, I suggest you go to a conservative web site and chat away."

I have noticed it is a site about mongering, but I have placed these threads in a forum specifically marked for such conversation as I have stated before. If you dont like it, then dont read or participate in it. I think your main purpose for responding in this thread is to intimidate and harass people. Thats not classy and goes against the website's rules. If thats the destructive avenue you want to take then feel free to denigrate yourself and tear apart the site with your foul conduct and true personality.

Please note. I have not attacked or used profanity at you once, however, you have decided to harass and go on the attack. Believe me, I will not lower myself to your level and will not be intimidated to stop posting in this section of the site.

(Message edited by Portege on March 28, 2011)

Do whatever you want, dipshit.

I dont have to. You already make yourself look like a fool through your profane personal attacks and insults. Maybe this is your true personality and you make it a policy of attacking people when you disagree with their opinions. I am glad that you reveal that to the good folks here rather then they finding it out later when they have the opportunity of meeting you. They know now to keep their distance rather then risking an unprovoked personal attack later on.

"When I listen to Obama's speech tonight, I want to know why Obama diverted resources to bomb Libya when he should have been helping Japan. In fact, if I were him, I would get every ship and plane I could find and send over all those unemployed people to help the Japanese. Send a few million of our unemployed to help rebuild their nation and get it going again."

Over on the RADIATION thread you state that you will not go to Asia to monger because of the radiation, but now you are saying we should send a few million of out unemployed CIVILIANS to a location that you will not go near????

You are a poor excuse of an American for having that type of an attitude!

Going to Japan or Asia during these times is a matter of personal choice. I am not going to go near it when there is a reactor melting down or has melted down. I would rather stay away until there is a conclusion to the situation. That is my personal choice. However, I believe there are plenty of unemployed Americans that, if offered the opportunity and advised of the risks, would go. The radiation risk is probably minimal, but I would not take that chance. Others would probably take that chance. If I went to Asia or Japan, I wouldnt expect to have any ill effects and I wouldnt expect others to have any ill effects. It is my choice though and I would rather stay away. We do get to choose in the United States you know.

As for me being a "poor excuse" for an American...to that I reply that you dont know me. When I turned 18, I went right into the Army recruiter's office. I completed my contract with the Army successfully and honorably. I also have volunteered for the Red Cross for over 10 years. There are a lot of things I have done and accomplished. When you have completed a contract in the military and have done as much volunteer work as I have...when you have created a company, employed people...then we can talk about who is a "poor excuse" for an American. I did everything I could do from serving in the military to volunteering to creating a business and employing people. Lets see you do that.

So, the government should pay unemployed Americans to go into hazardous situations in foreign country that they otherwise wouldn't if they were so financially desperate? We have that plan, it's called that Iraq and Afghanistan.

I do make some profit off of Obama. I trade the CL oil futures...oil drilling used to be my business for 20 years BTW. Obama has filled my bank account up with his handling of the different situations in the middle east and his clean energy dream. I am actually making a check out to the Red Cross right now to send to them because it has been a wonderful day on the oil front.

Let me tell you something about the clean energy dream. The company Emcore bought a certain solar oriented company today for $450,000. This was a company in which $29 million was sunk into it. They have been in pursuit of the clean energy dream since Carter was President and they have gotten nowhere fast. So Obama will continue to deny everyone drilling permits, bomb out middle east nations and pursue what doesnt work.

Obama is great if you trade the oil, but bad if you drive a car. In fact, they had to modify that payroll tax last year and keep taxes where they were...thats so you will be able to afford gas this year. Any benefit that you may have seen out of it is now being paid at the pumps.

If you really believe the middle east or his energy policies have nothing to do with the oil price rise, then I have a lot of things here that I want to sell you. So, go ahead and get behind Obama, but you will surely be paying the man at the pumps. My prediction is that oil has another $40 or so to rise and gasoline probably at least a dollar. Its not even driving season yet!

"Redbus + Portege = a taco and a burrito shy of a combination plate"

Now that's funny.

Go Obama '12