Priew posted this a while ago in another thread:

"My point is, I think we should at least make an attempt to create an environment for others to want to post reports.

There are numerous members that would love to post reports but they don't because they don't want to be attacked with negative comments, therefore, they just pass.

Why would anyone want to make the effort to post and then be attacked?? I hear this from other members all the time.

Those that do take the time to post trip reports, realize its time consuming and takes a lot of effort. Why not show some appreciation for the members who take the time to post, in turn, the whole board benefits!

Nobody is forcing ANYONE to read any report. If they are offended by something in it, don't read it and take a pass on it."

If you don't like my posts or trip reports than you don't have to read them. You dont need to like or unlike anything, just dont read what I post. When you constantly add negativity to the board you create this environment which discourages free thought.

So before you type one more thing on this board think about what you are doing. Calling people names, placing up comments laced with profanity, etc. does not add to the board. People spend a lot of time trying to add to the board and negative commentary just tears it all down. I can understand critical commentary, but when it gets to calling people names, profanity, challenging their values etc. it does no good. It amounts to trolling.

Maybe the best thing Hombre can do is to create an "ignore" button. That way if you dont like my posts or don't like someone elses than you can filter them out from the list.

There may be some people out there who do not pay much attention to Portege's history of posts on this site and therefore would fall for Portege's crybabying "it ruins the board if you insult me" hypocritical schtick.

I too can play the quoting other threads game. But in my case, what I am quoting below is the sort of thing Portege has made a habit of doing on this board, and a habit that created the environment where many on this board don't give a rat's ass what Portege thinks or crybabies about.

What follows is Portege's response to one of the trip reports/pictures Hunterman posted in his trip report, and some "back and forth."

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By Portege on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 12:29 pm:

Ugh
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By Majormajor on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 05:09 pm:

Portege:

It is really hard to find any positive comments in many of your replies to other people. Also, you do seem to get a fair share of crap in your reports as to the accuracy of your postings.

I even gave you a positive remark in your DR trip report.

I think you out to chill out a little. Also, for the most part the postings of others are their own opinions. While I don't always agree with whatever people post, this is sort of a live or let live place.

A little less criticism would get you are lot further an more respect on this board.

MM

PS: Hunterman is a long time and well respected member of this board, and his options are valued by me and many others. Enough said.

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By Portege on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 05:15 pm:

Ugh
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(Message edited by laguy on January 24, 2012)

As I said LAguy, there is a difference between critical commentary and a personal attack. If someone says they dont like the women in a report that doesnt mean they are attacking the author. When someone rolls out the name calling and profanity, as you oftentimes do, than that is just a personal attack.

I am not for cheerleading. I say you speak your mind and provide an honest assessment, but leave out the profanity, name calling and other personal attacks. If you like the women than say so and if you dont like them than say so, but dont call a person an idiot or question their values. Don't follow them around Clubhombre and attack them at every turn like you oftentimes do.

I seem to remember in the Priew thread that LAguy was somehow mixed up in it as he has been somehow mixed up in all these fights in the past. Its as if he is looking for trouble. Contrasting opinions are always welcome, but this isnt a flaming or warfare website. Its a place to share your experiences about a trip. If you get your jollies from taking a shit on the board, than move that to somewhere else. There are plenty of websites out there where you can flame and attack people personally.

If Hombre did put in an ignore function, than LAGuy probably wouldnt even use it. There is some enjoyment for him in harassing members on the board.

It figures that Portege would think posting "ugh" twice in response to a trip report is critical commentary rather than rude flaming. And I am sure many here would agree that only someone who has shit for brains would post such a thing, or claim it is critical commentary.

But that is Portege, and given his track record here I suppose it will never change.

This is exactly the kind of language I am talking about.

"someone who has shit for brains...and given his track record here I suppose it will never change."

That kind of posting clearly goes against the rules of the forum and should be rewarded with at least a warning from Hombre if not an outright suspension from the forum. LAguy's behavior is clearly over the line and can be considered harassment. Its that type of behavior which discourages other members from participating and providing content to the forum.

In regards to my conduct on this forum, the most questionable it will ever get is me saying something like "ugh". I won't openly attack someone in this manner. However, LAguy goes way over the line with personal attacks and outright profanity.

I would like an explanation from Hombre as to why this type of conduct is not addressed. I would also like to make it clear that LAGuy's harassment towards myself will not in anyway stop me from posting in this forum and only hardens my resolve in these matters.

Portege, you have shit for brains. And I stand by that.

Portege...you practice a passive-aggresive style which is even worse than direct criticism of the original reporter. Talking shit about the choice of one's barfines is also a violation of board rules. I do it from time to time but usually in response to someone making comments. Basically, if someone wants to talk shit about my choice in barfines then it's game on and I can do the same back.

Blazers, that sounds totally fair. If someone makes a critical remark in your report than you have every right to respond back to them in kind.

Im talking about outright trolling where someone inserts stinging profane remarks which dont have anything to do with the topic at hand such as "you have shit for brains". Those remarks are certainly not called for and go way beyond critical commentary. Another tactic which trolls use is to follow someone around the board and remark on every post they make whether they are truly interested or not. Thats outright harassment of a member.

Passive aggressive is ok with me. Critical remarks about the ladies or money paid is ok with me. On the other hand, "you have shit for brains" should not have a place on this board. There should at least be a bare minimum standard of decorum. Right now it looks like there are no standards. Anyone can jump on a report and tell the reporter some profane crap.

Portege, you've done nothing except troll the whole time you've been on the board. And you do have shit for brains, as your own writing confirms.

I would like to have an ignore key so we can better choose which users to follow or not follow. Users like Catocony and Laguy stopped posting trip reports a long time ago and now just liter the board with profanit pretending to be whatever. I think LAguy has contributed two pictures to this website while users like myself have posted hundreds or thousands.

Cat and LA Guy,

I agree with both of you that Portege has shit for brains. The flaw in your logic is that you think that somehow through sheer will power, he can somehow be intelligent. You know this is not true. Portege is just stuck being stupid, and no badgering and belittling will change that simple fact.

You guys can do what you want. Im a member of a few other forums where trip reports, pictures and stories are posted on a daily basis by most everyone. Trip reports on this website are not posted daily and sometimes there is a month or so in between new reports. When a new report does pop up, it has no pictures as if the author is afraid of getting attacked.

Whats it worth for someone to post a report when you have other non-contributing members launching personal attacks against you? If you feel so offended by a report where you have to personally attack the author than simply don't read it. Throwing around profanity and attacking people...trolling...takes away from the site.

Poor hombre is working hard on the forum and some of you just come to take a shit and leave.

Portege,

Once again, "than" does not equal "then." Third grade grammar.

Although there is some merit to Portege's first post in this topic, it's difficult to address appropriately given his history here on CH. First, a short reply for anyone that wants to skip the long post. We decided late last year to apply stricter standards to moderation in the trip report section regarding flaming. The same will apply to our upcoming Trip Planning section. These decisions were unrelated to Portege's posts as I believe that is a separate issue.

Long post follows:

As for the separate issue, Portege's first report (March 2008) was universally well received

By Portege on Saturday, March 15, 2008 - 08:33 pm
"...Thank you everyone once again for the commentary. Its truly been an adventure."

Portege's tone changed a lot between then and November 2009. Prior and during his second report, he throws out (or implies) a lot of accusations, some directed at well-respected, high profile members such as Blazers (19 Trip Reports - 19 Awards), Khun_Mor (4 Trip Reports - 4 Awards) and MongerX (11 Trip Reports - 11 Awards).

His implied or actual accusations included intentionally providing false information, faking trip reports, and pursuing minors.

By Portege on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 08:00 pm
"...You can never trust what you read on these boards even from supposedly trusted members. I came to Pattaya with certain pre-conceptions based upon what I read on various boards and some of those pre-conceptions seem not to be true. When reading these reports, you have to take everything with a grain of salt. When you touch down on the ground, things might be different then what is in the reports. I guess everyone has their own perspective and experience depending upon how they set the trip up. There are also those guys who do not really go on the trips, but just fake it and write reports as a way to fantasize."

By Portege on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 10:11 pm
"I will be honest. There is plenty of wrong information on this board...There are quite a few trip reports on here that are misleading which do not balance out the entire scene.

By Portege on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 - 01:47 am
"Over the years I have heard a lot of things on message boards that seemed to sound valid, but were completely untrue...I have been all over the place and I am experiencing the real thing while some of you just want to live what you want to live out on a message board. There must be another Pattaya in Thailand, because the one I am visiting is not the one you guys visited."

From my reading, it appears that Portege received accurate information from CH, but never acknowledges, retracts, nor apologizes for calling many members liars.

By Khun_mor on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 11:13 pm
"What happened to your buddies from the other boards that told you we were all stupid for telling you your budget was unrealistic??"

By Mongerx on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 07:46 pm
"To follow-up on KM's comment. You made a rather huge call out on the Asian Discussion board to the Club Hombre community that we "were providing wrong information." When in fact, it sure looks like the hombre information was right on target."

By Blazers on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 11:27 am
"Thanks for the detailed report. You have to understand that there are guys on this board that have been to Pattaya over 20 times and they will provide useful information. The problem lies is when you ask for information without reading the entire forum/site and then tell everyone on the board that they are full of shit."

Some comments from other observers at the time

By Fooledagain1 on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 04:24 pm
"To be fair and if you wanted to be honest with yourself which it doesn't appear you do, you would understand you brought alot of bad karma on yourself from pretty much day 1 of your postings here. You bashed everyone here trying to give you good advice about your budget and then claimed you found the "real experts" on another site that gave you cheap hotel offerings only to find the "real experts" were right here on club hombre all along. Those cheap hotels didn't work out as those others said and you never made it on your $2000 budget you claimed you could. Eveyone here was right and you were dead wrong yet never offered any apolagy to anyone. Had you been a little more appreciative of the good advice instead of trying to come across as a now-it-all who knew more than the many here trying their best to give you damn good advice maybe you would have been recieved differently..."

By Jurgen01 on Wednesday, December 23, 2009 - 08:10 pm
"...Let me see. Members of the board tried to help you. In return, you calls us liars and trolls. You implied that many on the board made up our experiences in LOS. You suggested that many of the trip reports were fake. You called out people by name, like Blazer, Priew, Khun Mor, Knockkneedman. You suggested that we (including myself) were engaging in illegal activities. This is where I went off on you because in a semi public board, you cannot let an accusation like that stand, even if it is only suggested...Personally, I think you owe the board an apology. And such an apology would go a long way towards repairing your relationship on the board."

By Gurock1 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 - 12:48 pm
"...Your first argument began on how much the trip would cost. I told you before you left for LOS that a one month trip would cost four to five thousand US Dollars, if you were careful with your money. You scoffed and said that people from other boards said you could get away for way less. Now at the end of your trip you are saying that you spent about $4,200.00 and airfare...As to all the other non-sense. If you tread more softly you won't have problems with the other members..."

From these or other discussions, Portege also drew the ire of a number of other long-time members including Bluestraveller (6 Trip Reports - 1 Award), LAguy (7 Trip Reports - 1 Award), Catocony (8 Trip Reports - 1 Award), DonMarco (14 Trip Reports - 2 Awards), Buick (16 Trip Reports) and three other reporters who shared their opinions with me privately, but have decided to stay out of the fray. Together, the three unnamed reporters have a combined total of 73 Trip Reports and 24 Awards.

In Summary

The posting environment on CH is worth addressing, but I don't believe it's nearly as bad as Portege suggests. I think it seems so to him because of his posting history on CH. As for his comparisons to CH and other sites, I'm pretty sure he's mostly if not exclusively referring to free sites which are in a different niche than CH. There are challenges to running a pay site that I think better explain less content compared to years past, such as keeping new memberships up and encouraging new members to participate while minimizing burnout of veteran members. But there are benefits to being a pay site such as exclusive content, the actual fact that we are a smaller community with ways to limit access, on average a higher level of education and income among our membership, and lots of unique organization, entertainment, and information features that no other site offers. Better yet, my schedule and priorities have changed a lot in the last few months giving me a lot more time and energy to devote to CH. A lot is planned over the next few months including a server upgrade/move, new features, site improvements, additional content, and new marketing strategies. I think CH has a lot to offer despite the repeated negative view that Portege keeps trying to paint.

To be honest, I got a little mad at some of the guys who were posting some negative commentary in my Pattaya report and it erupted into a flame war. After that report, my attitude changed towards those posters and this site in general. It seemed like whatever I posted from that time forward is met by comments like "shit for brains".

Like I said, if we just have a gentleman's agreement going forward not to flame, disrupt or erupt into profanity or tantrums than all will be fine. I will not be posting in reports where my presence isnt wanted. I will keep negative commentary to myself.

In regards to Pattaya, it seems every report is different and everyone has a different experience of that destination. Priew's reports of Thailand seem very different then Blazer's for example. We all have different experiences of each destination. Each one of us takes away something different and has a different view. We all have to respect each other's views which is not done all the time here.

If I got out of line in that Pattaya report, I apologize. I should have exercised more restraint and simply discussed the situation in a PM with the individual posters instead of venting to the public. Going forward I will more carefully choose my words and we all should in that respect. If someone in a report seems to be getting a bit off then send them a private message to discuss what is happening rather then subject everyone to it.

(Message edited by Portege on January 25, 2012)

When a new report does pop up, it has no pictures as if the author is afraid of getting attacked.

Portege, you seem to place an undue emphasis on photographs. I've addressed this point you've made about "no photos" before, so I'll just reiterate it: the lack of photographs in a report doesn't meant a person is afraid of getting attacked. It is your supposition, not a universal fact.

Not everyone takes photos. I haven't taken any in several years. I may do so again some day, but either way, I don't believe the value of my trip reports is diminished by the lack of them. Nor for that matter, the reporting of anyone else.

Then there are people who do take photos but don't like to share them period, regardless of what reaction they may elicit. Not everyone is an open book about this type of thing.

I think its nice to see pictures of the hotel, the city, the overall environment, etc. Pictures of the ladies are helpful too. My personal preference is for photos because it helps me become more familiar with a venue and everything that is there.

While not all people are afraid of getting attacked, there might be a few or some guys out there who will not post photos because of overly critical commentary.

As I said above, I am operating under a gentleman's agreement where I will not comment in a report where I am not wanted and will not insert negative commentary into a report. You guys can do what you want. I think it would be nice if everyone just got along so the board would flow more smoothly.

Last month, I saw Priew getting attacked in his report and I didnt think it was fair. He has contributed a lot of high quality reports and he seems like a nice guy. I dont think he was deserving of that treatment.

i have never owned a camera, although i did buy a disposable camera a couple times 15 yrs ago. my phone doesn't have a camera. i've never posted a picture on hombre and i will never post a picture on hombre. i don't take pictures. it doesn't interest me at all. some guys love them, it is a real hobby and i'm glad they enjoy it and share with others who are interested in them. but for me the important pieces of a report are the basics, how did you get there, where did you stay, where did you eat, what bars/clubs did you go to, and what non mongering things did you do. and of course including some costs, experiences, etc.. from the above. with that info, i'll go there and see with my own eyes.

i will say i was a bit surprised when my eyes saw AC. no picture can give a true 'picture' of that place. you have to see it 'live'. while that can apply to many places, i think AC takes the top spot in 'a picture will never give the real look' (and i don't mean the girls, i mean the 'city').

Buick, its 2012 man. Get yourself a camera.

that would be a waste of money because i would never use it.

I just want to say I'm confused by this:

Portege, January 24:
"I would like to have an ignore key so we can better choose which users to follow or not follow."

Portege, January 26:
"What I will usually do is give folks like Buick the courtesy of reading the first few lines in their report. However, once my mind hits a spot that I do not fancy then I have my own electronic feature where I simply move on to the next report. Some folks may not have been built with this electronic feature when they were born, but I can tell you my mind has that feature built in. When I hear or read something which I believe to be shit, then I automatically "deny" it and move on.

"Some here might need that "deny" function because they havent reached my level of evolution of where they can skip past stuff they feel is total shit. Im not putting them down and I realize how the law is worded. The law basically states that Hombre needs to construct this site so that all individuals can be able to use it. So implementing a "deny" function might satisfy the law of allowing everyone to be able to use the site, but I feel Hombre should just be able to put up a website and have everyone be able to use it without having to implement such features. I really dont feel that a business needs to build ramps for the handicap or Hombre needs to go out of his way to implement a "deny" feature for the challenged who have not reached that level of evolution. However, I respect the law and understand why these features might be needed."

Can someone help me understand?

I sure will be willing to assist you.

For you, I would like to have an "ignore" key because, while I have a good sense of rejection, I believe its better to ignore your posts all together. Why you might ask? It takes up too much time weeding through your posts and I only have so much. However, I believe most of us here should have that mental faculty to be able to ignore or deny the information which proves disagreeable and simply "move on".

(Message edited by Portege on January 27, 2012)

I doubt everyone who posts "LOL" is literally laughing out loud. And for that matter it is hard for me to believe people can actually laugh so hard their asses fall off. Indeed, I think we can all agree the vast majority of those who post "LMAO" actually have asses that are still attached to the rest of their bodies, notwithstanding that they claim to be LMAO.

However, upon reading Portege's last post (and the earlier Portege posts he was attempting to reconcile) I am literally, honest to god, LOL.

I did, however, observe my ass is still attached and hasn't fallen off. But I am going to take some license here and state that figuratively speaking I am LMAO as well.

Thanks once again for the laugh Portege. LOL and LMAO.

(Message edited by laguy on January 27, 2012)