This is no joke...

I just heard Iraqi troops in northern Iraq are already trying to surender.

ben

"Our reaction to 9/11 was a show of strength and a complete dismantling of a terriost group that had been around a long time before Bush was elected President."

this terrorist group is far from being dismantled and now we assure ourselves of another strike here in the US, the very thing that our leader has said he is avoiding by aligning the 1 billion plus people of the Muslum world against us. The bottom line is that this in no way will make our country any safer, in fact the opposite is going to be true and I think you can take that to the bank.

I am not against going after Sadam and his thugs, I just think this is a very ignorant way of going about it. The weapons of mass distraction are just a commonly used group of words that seem to have many people brainwashed after 6 months of selling this war to us.

You say that these countries are with us, with over 85% of the people of England agaist this, I would hardly use that as proof of any support, or are you saying that the governments of countries count and the people do not, that is Tyranny.

"You say that these countries are with us, with over 85% of the people of England agaist this, I would hardly use that as proof of any support, or are you saying that the governments of countries count and the people do not, that is Tyranny"

Where did I say these countries are with us? Another fantasy from you?

I have found over the years that people in general react to crisis by either ignoring the problem or just go being in denial.

"I am not against going after Sadam and his thugs, I just think this is a very ignorant way of going about it."

We tried the UN and of course France and Germany stepped in to help. How would you get rid of Saddam and not offend the Muslim world?

Incidentally this great organization (the UN) now has Libya has head of the Human Rights Committee and Iraq and Syria as head of the UN Disarmament Committee. I think I will throw up!!

"this terrorist group is far from being dismantled and now we assure ourselves of another strike here in the US, the very thing that our leader has said he is avoiding by aligning the 1 billion plus people of the Muslim world against us."

I don't feel we can run our lives and our countries policies based on fear from Iraq, Libya, Iran, or other countries that support terrorism. That is what the French were good at doing both in WWI and WW II including the French government during World War II rounding up all their Jews and sending them to the Germans. Talk about a couple of countries with histories of defending human rights. Again I want to throw up!!

Price of oil has now dropped from $39 down to $30 a barrel over the past month.

Gee, I wonder if the big oil companies are going to tell Bush to back off this war stuff? How do the oil companies benefit from cheap oil?

I just got off the phone with my old neighbor in Manama, Bahrain. Great guy, an Iraqi who left in 1994, came through Jordan, got a Jordanian passport (they all do eventually - I think four boxtops from breakfast cereal can get you a Jordanian passport) and moved into the GCC region, first in D'oha and now Manama. Anyways, we bombed his house to shreds in 1991 (a 500-pounder about 500 meters away did the trick) but he didn't care because he hates Saddam with a passion, as every Iraqi I ever met in the Gulf does. There is quite a bit of support on the ground for killing Saddam, but quite a bit of dismay over the US doing it. Too bad we don't have a frontman we can use for these types of things.

Oh yeah, good to see that France may side with us if Saddam uses chemical and/or biological weapons. Good job fuckers, after our guys get gassed or germed by weapons France doesn't think Saddam has, after we blow the fuck out of anybody and everything that launched said weapons, the French will join the attack, just in time for the installation of a viceroy in Baghdad and to claim to "win" and get a piece of the rebuilding. Ah the French. Why fight, when you can just sign up at the end? Just like those little fucks from school who were always the last to join a fistfight and would hit a guy when he was already going down and claim the knockout.

Snapper,

Iraqis were actually trying to surrender as early as last week. Brits were sending them back and saying, "Not yet".

I don't tink he will use chemical weapons. He needs a place to run to and if he uses that shit it may be hard for him to find a place to hide.

Yes in the nuise last nite that did say a few Iraqi troops have already surrendered.
the only thing I am worried about is the sue-a-side bombers hitting the troops that could get messy has anyone heard anymore on these sew-ah-cide camps ?

Milk

Catocony,

Just an update to your recent post regarding the French offer of help if the Iraqi's use chemicals.

Official White House response was along the lines of: Uh, no thanks, we don't need any more of your help at this time.

benwhowillrefusetoeatESCARGOTlaBOURGUIGNONNE

I go away for a few days and miss all the fun.

ActionJackson,

Don’t forget the McKenzie brothers. Strange Brew is one of my all time favorite movies. I give you Canucks full credit on the humour and music end. But you guys are not as near as funny as some Americans like Jamesbr. As far as Bush being a terrible diplomat, sometimes diplomacy means going your own way when there are no other options available. Tony Blair, in his speech today to parliament makes it very very clear that the failure to reach a diplomatic solution to the problem rests squarely with the French. And his argument is very persuasive. I suggest you read it. His opinion was seconded by an editorial written for the Guardian by none other than Bill Clinton.

Jamesbr,

I actually believe that a lot of what you fear could occur as a result of the war, may indeed occur. Wars have a tendency to spin off in directions nobody can control. And it worries me also. Israel getting into it could be a disaster. And I don’t doubt that we will see an immediate but short-term rise in terrorism. But I still believe the consequences of doing nothing will be greater. So lets agree to disagree but hope that I am right.

What I really want to know is if you really believe all of that stuff you posted. You said you voted for George Bush. I don’t believe that any longer. IMHO your real reasons for opposing the war seem to be coming through. And I think your opposition is politically based, just like the majority of the opposition. You seem to really have it out for Bush and company. Which is cool with me, it just seems like you are way out there. But keep it coming. Its good stuff.

If you want the best reasons to go to war please go to the Guardian.Com and read the Speech that Tony Blair just gave to Parliament. He completely devastates all of the tired arguments for not taking out Saddam. Excellent, excellent speech. Blair may look effeminate but he has a set of balls. I give him that. I wish that our leaders were half as effective in communicating as he is.

To sum up all of the reasons for war, I will quote that hero of the American left, Bill Clinton. In an editorial that CLINTON wrote for the Guardian and published today, Clinton defends the decision of Tony Blair to side with the states and says the British Public should support him( funny how Clinton does not want to offer the same support to Bush. Could it be I am right about politics motivating most of the anti-war protesters?)

Clinton: “ If we leave Iraq with Chemical and Biological weapons, after 12 years of defiance, there is considerable risk that one day these weapons will fall into the wrong hands and put many more lives at risk than will be lost in overthrowing Saddam”

Clinton goes on to also lay the blame for the failure of diplomatic efforts at the feet of the French. And this was published TODAY!

There you have it. Need I say more? Clinton,, the wonder boy of the democrats, tacitly agreeing with Bushes arguments for overthrowing Saddam and defending Blair’s decision to side with Bush. And he basically makes the argument I have made all along. The risks of inaction will trump the risks of action.


Read Blair’s speech. Then, if you still think Bush had any options left other than war, tell me what you think they are. Or do you think sitting on our hands is a good option?


Batster

...and after Blair's speech public opinion in Great Britain is making a quick shift.

"An ICM poll for the Guardian suggests British public opinion is shifting towards backing war although more still oppose (44%) than back (38%) war."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2860717.stm



" There is little doubt that his speech in the Commons – one of the most powerful and compelling heard for years – will have won over some waverers, even perhaps one or two hitherto hardline opponents of his policies."
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=6299481



"Support for military action to disarm Saddam has risen... "
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20030318_841.html



Is this a tyranny?
...not even close. Tyranny is a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler. In a democracy absolute power is given to the voters when they elect the candidate that they feel has the experience, knowledge and integrity to make important decisions in the best interest of the country and it's citizens.

Heh. Welcome back Batster. As the sole voice of reason here I was starting to hear an echo. Just kidding guys. (Except you P.S. - your words are real dumb). ;)

I heard part of the speech online. But will read it in it's entirety. If their positions had been reversed and Blair was President, you can bet there would have been a near unanimous UN vote to tar and feather Hussein. Bush is an idiot who happens to be right on this occasion.

No surprise about Clinton. Though out of office, I'm sure his love of popularity remains intact and NO American politician worth his salt is going to criticize American use of force on the eve of war. Too risky that he'd be seen as criticizing the forces themselves.

As far as I am concerned Clinton, Carter, Daschle and all the rest that are really trashing Bush publicly have lost my support. I hate to even confess that I voted for Clinton twice. I hated Bush senior and was not a fan of Dole.

But Clinton was a huge disapointment in his last term and I thought good riddance when he got his scandal ridden ass out of the white house. But his obssesive need for attention just keeps him around. And he and Carter actively discrediting Bush when they are speaking overseas is disgusting. Clinton is still trying to burnish his legacy and he would just about die to get a Nobel prize.

Dont even get me started on Carter. I always thought he was a decent man, but a bad president. Lately i have changed my mind. I think he is a bad man and was a bad president. If Carter had any dignity left he would not have accepted the Nobel prize when the committe as much as said he was getting it for his opposition to Bush.

I was always suspect of Blair after he became such good freinds with Clinton. But I must admit the guy has courage. He is absolutely going alone against his party and public opinion an doing what he feels is right. That is leadership.

Oh and speaking of public opinion. Sometimes public opinon is wrong. The vast majority of "public opinion" in America and England had no interest in stopping Hitler either. I wonder if occupied France would have been happy with our "public opinion" to not intervene. And I wonder if African-Americans would have prefferred that Lincoln based his decisions on public opinion.

batster

I read the speech. It does my heart good to see words and logic put to such effect.

Blair is a brave politician, but he was never going it alone as you've said. Yes he was in danger of losing a good chunk of his own labour votes, but he always retained a solid majority when the Conservatives were counted - as was demonstrated by the landslide vote he received today.

Not that it's germaine to this issue, but I take a much more charitable view of Clinton, as I believe does a lot of the world outside of America. The most embarassing display I've ever seen was that the Republicans were allowed to put on in hounding the guy because of a blow job. It was literally incomprehensible to most of the rest of the world - and America was quite rightly a laughing stock because of it.

I find your comment about public opinion interesting because it's the flip side of something I was thinking about. When the dust settles and Hussein's head is on a pike...what will people have to say about the effect all this has had on democracy? While people have been wringing their hands about the marginalizing of the U.N., I have heard no one express any concern about the fact that despite the overwhelming public outcry against the war, (mistaken in my belief), governments have gone right ahead and sided with the U.S. Seems democracy only exists on voting day.

Btw, there's no proof Lincoln was against slavery, and quite a bit of circumstancial evidence to show he was more than ready to tolerate it. Still, he was your greatest President.

I hated Clinton because he was a lying hypocrite. If he said "hell yea that bitch sucked my cock and I loved it" then that would have been cool with me or if he said "fuck no, I'm not going to answer that question it is none of your damn business" I would had been cool with that too, but when he stares right in your eyes and lies through his teeth like I'm an idiot and I'm supposed to believe it or something, that pisses me off. Bush is way off on a few things but at least I respect the man. Clinton was a little punk. And Sadam made Clinton his bitch. At least you have to respect Bush for standing up for his convictions even if you disagree. And all these people who are protesting are all full of shit too because most of them were silent when Clinton bombed the shit out of Yugoslavia without UN approval. Hell, the French were all for bombing Yugoslavia, helped out and everything. It shows the hypocrisy of the French and all the antiwar crowd. Hypocrisy is the number one thing in the world that pisses me off.

This week it works out that I have tomorrow night free and usually in such a case I would head to TJ, but that would have me crossing into Mexico about 3 hours after the "deadline" expires. I'm not so much afraid of border issues coming back on a Wednesday night as I am afraid I will miss some cool, breaking news, Baghdad is being bombed, LIVE night vision bomb footage. I wonder if any bars will put the news footage on the big screen TV and if so will they still have strippers on stage at the same time. That may be an excellent combination. Live bombing, strippers, putas, 2X1 cerveza's all MC'd by a fast talking Mexican DJ. Sex, booze and violence. Yea!

I have to meet you someday Sancho.

You are my kinda guy.

The world we live in.

Hey, we merit a different colour. Cool. Is this the popular opinion map? Cuz if it is, America should be speckled green, or red. ;)

(Message edited by luckyjackson on March 19, 2003)

Ben, I missed this post of yours where you said,

"Incidentally this great organization (the UN) now has Libya has head of the Human Rights Committee and Iraq and Syria as head of the UN Disarmament Committee. I think I will throw up!! "

I sympathize with your view. On the surface it's absurd to have those nations in those roles, but what solution would you have for this? For the UN to work, it has to be inclusive and there have to be rules in place that govern how nations interact. I suppose you could put a process in place that says, if a nation breaks rules "A,B,C, and D" it will no longer be eligible to serve on the Security Council - or something to that effect.

Problem is, the U.S. routinely disregards rules it doesn't like, so it would be one of the first frozen out of serving in important roles. If the U.S. had behaved more responsibly on past occasions, it would now be in a position to make a convincing case against absurdities like the one you mention. As it is, the U.S. is hoist by its own petard.

I know you Yanks. You'll jump to the conclusion that just because I'm saying something against the U.S., I must be a hater of all things American. Not so. I have my hands full up here in Canuckistan - just pointing out that the good done in this world by America FAR outweighs the bad. However, it's undeniable that a lot of American attitudes are, IMHO, incredibly fucked up. Comments?

Jackson,

Countries outside of the United States may be used to scumbag politicians that feel they are so superior to everyone else that they are not accountable. We are not.

With Clinton it ws not about the blowjob, it was about the abuse of power, the lying under oath, etc. In my job, I probably would have been fired for poking an intern. And that under sexual harrassment laws put into effect by the Clinton administration.

Clinton was a brilliant politician, but I later saw throough tthe veneer. He is trailer park trash with no morals. It was the abuse of power that galled. That combined with his hideous taste in woman, is what americans dont like.

BatsterwhowouldliketopokaTHINintern

Batster,

"Countries outside of the United States may be used to scumbag politicians that feel they are so superior to everyone else that they are not accountable. We are not."

Oh Puh-leeze! Tell me you were cracking yourself up with laughter as you wrote that. The U.S. is not used to scumbag politicians? I don't even know where to begin with that one. What, are you trying to elbow James out of his comic relief role?

The Clinton scandal was about abuse of power? Why, because he got a hummer in the Oval office, lied about something he should never have been asked, and took some bric-a-brac from the White House? Tawdry sure, but for christ sake, why BE president if you can't get blown during the afternoon? I respect that impulse a hell of a lot more than letting your friends take the blame for something you did, (Reagan), or 'joking' about a woman you had put to death, (Dubya).

I don't want to turn this thread away from the title in the topic, but this whole Lewinsky 'scandal' will be analogous to the McCarthy red hunting thing in the future. It's still too recent now, but Americans will look back and ask themselves, "How could we have allowed this?". If American society was comfortable with sex instead of with violence - it would be a much cooler place. ;)

Btw, OF COURSE Clinton was tpk and without morals. How the hell do you think you get to BE President without the lack of the latter quality?

I'll agree with ya though on his penchant for big haired, big boned gals - but hey, whatever turns his crank. I think the guy should be given an honourary membership here!

LuckyJ,

I have always enjoyed my visits to Canada and have found the Canadian people to be very pro-American. They also know how to party and those little french Canadians who dance across the river from Detroit are some of the hottest women I have ever seen.

I am not surprised that Canada has stabbed us in the back as your government has lost its conservative bend and is now influenced by the more liberal politicians of your country. In other words I like the people that live in Canada and in particular Calgary and western Canada.

I plan to boycott any thing Canadian, French, German or any other country that does not support the United States and encourage all Americans to do the same.

Batster

I would agree with you about Clinton and I felt like Gore would be just an extension of the same scandal riddled administration, which is also a reason I voted for Bush. I voted for Bush because Republicans claim to want to protect the Constitution, this thought has been a mistake with the destruction of the US Constitution with the two Patriot acts and the Fatherland security act. I do not hate or dislike Bush, I think he is a simpleton that is being told what to do. I just think that the war is a stupid and dangerous move and I strongly question the motives because the reasons that are being given that have been spoon fed to us for 6 months, to go to war just simply do not add upp. The administration has been caught lieing on several occasions to justify their cause, this should evoke distrust to anyone that is not already brainwashed by CNN, MSNBC etc.
So no, I prefer to think for my self and my antiwar sentiment is not anti American or Anti Bush, although when someone cannot respond to the possition the easy thing now is to state that if you are ever anti war you are anti American, which is pretty weak I must say.

As for Tony Blair, yes great speech, he is fighting for his life, He needed the speech of his life.

So now I must ask everyone that has perhaps thought this through. With our own policy do we now put into motion the notion that any country can attack any other country that it sees as a threat, without UN approval. So China can attack Taiwan, India can attack Pakistan, North Korea can attack South Korea,,,,,, or is the US the only country in the world that has the right to do this now.

Ben,

You obviously have no travel or mongering plans then huh? You go ahead and do what you feel you need to, but patriotism of the 'freedom fries' variety has never been very impressive or effectual. If you think that kind of quaint gesture serves any purpose but to get Americans laughed at outside their own country, you're mistaken. And ironically, if you were successful and managed to convince a substantial pecentage of Americans to follow suit - you'd probably be hurting the world economy upon which America, and the rest of us, are dependent. That would actually hurt your war effort.

However, I certainly respect the impulse that makes you want to do SOMETHING that indicates your support for the removal of Hussein. I think the most effective thing ordinary people like you and I can do is to quietly, logically, and energetically counter the bad arguments that exist out there. That would serve your country much better, and therefore be truly patriotic, not mindlessly so.

James,

the point you bring up is essentially the same I made in my earlier post. (Therefore it's a good one. ;) ). Technically, I think the coalition is breaking the law by attacking Iraq. The fact that I think it's the right thing to do, does not lessen the seriousness of the signal this kind of action sends. America is again disregarding a rule it would expect others to obey.

In his speech Blair tried to hoodwink people into believing that the coming war is legal under Resolution 1441. But that resolution was intended to leave the "serious consequences" up to a UN sanctioned action. Not to America and a collection of other countries.

I actually plan to visit Mexico today. I need to donate some money to help the Mexican economy.

You can only carry patriotism so far!

As far as people finding my boycott laughable, I could care less what other people think in that regard, as it makes me feel better. Kinda like driving 55 mph when we had the last oil shortage back in the 70's

Also with the huge deficit in trade we do in this country each year, it might be a good idea for all Americans, when it makes economic sense, to buy American made products.

For you tuff guys one word
Bowling for Columbine

http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/

Who are the real terrorists ?
Who has trained the men that trained the terrorists?
Who has supplied weapons to the terrorists ?
How many innocent people have we killed over the years ?

Stupid White Men... and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation - Great book

Milktufferthanyou

Though BFC is a very entertaining documentary, and left me believing Charlton Heston is an asshole, and that the U.S. problem with guns certainly has A LOT to do with fear - I don't make the connect that he does to International politics and American use of force abroad.

I don't for a moment buy the argument that the fear which compels Americans to arm themselves is the same thing motivating the U.S. government to get rid of Hussein.

I find this thread very interesting, lots of information and worthy debate. There is so much I could respond to, but I'll only add a few of my own opinions.

Re: Clinton and lying under oath
In my opinion, which I believe is shared by many internationally, was that the thing that made this chapter of our history so ridiculous is the manipulation of our legal system to place Clinton in that Catch 22 in the first place. I won't leave Clinton blameless, he was reckless with his sex life, but I seperate that part of his life from the rest of his life, as I'm sure many of us do. Many of us are upstanding citizens, but if you include our sex life in the picture, perceptions of us would plummet in the minds of most Americans.

Jamesbr:
In retrospect, do you think you made the right vote? If you could alter the outcome of this past election, would you? I would never have voted for Bush, but one of my own private predictions that appears to be coming true was falling support for America across the globe with Bush in office. Since I have done and plan on doing a lot more traveling, this particularly bothers me. Although I lean in support of the war, I find your analysis of the potential negative outcome feasible. Mine are similar, though they were not quite as extensive as yours. Like you said, look what two individuals did to Maryland. How many people did it take to kill thousands in New York? I really hope our fears are never realized as life as we have lived could really go to hell if this doesn't play out right.

Freedom fries/toast
I wanted to hang my head in shame when I read about this.

BFC
I'm looking forward to it's release on video. I need to see that movie.

Bowloing for Columbine? You guys are seriously deluded.

From http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html:

Bowling for Columbine fails the first requirement of a documentary: some foundation in the truth. In his earlier works, Moore shifted dates and sequences for the sake of drama, but at least the events depicted did occur. Most of the time. Bowling breaks that last link with factual reality. It makes its points by deceiving and by misleading the viewer. Statements are made which are false. The viewer is invited to draw inferences which the producer must have known were wrong. Dates are transposed and video carefully edited to create whatever effect is desired. Indeed, even speeches shown on screen are heavily edited, so that sentences are assembled in the speaker's voice, but which he never uttered.

These occur with such frequency and seriousness as to rule out unintentional error. Any polite description would be inadequate, so let me be blunt. Bowling uses deliberate deception as its primary tool of persuasion and effect.

A film which does this may be a commercial success. It may be amusing, or it may be moving. But it is not a documentary. One need only consult Rule 11 of the rules for the Academy Award: a documentary must be non-fictional, and even re-enactments (much less doctoring of speech) must stress fact and not fiction.

The point is not that Bowling is unfair, or that its conclusions are incorrect. No, the point is that Bowling is deliberately, seriously, and consistently deceptive. A viewer cannot count upon any aspect of it, even when the viewer believes he is seeing video of an event occurring or a person speaking.

As I said before I have a arsenal in my house. Fear has nothing to do with it. I just like things that go boom. Have you ever let loose with an assault rifle with a 40 round magazine? Yea!!!!! what a rush. I bet if any of you actually tried it you would agree it is a lot of fun. And in a free country, I ought to be able to do whatever the hell I want to if I think it is fun and it doesn't harm anyone else. And don't go blaming me and my guns because someone else shoots someone. All this collective guilt crap people are always trying to enforce on me is a bunch of crap.

That Moore guy is so full of self loathing and self hatred. I can't believe anyone can have such hatred for his own culture and no doubt he hates his own reflection in the mirror. Oh well, it's a free country. I will let him have his right to make his crappy movies or do what ever the hell other crazy stuff he want's to do. I grant him his rights. I just wish him and people like him would spend less time trying to take away my rights. The political correctness police in the world really get quite oppressive at times.

So what are you saying, if Michael Moore had a gun he'd turn it on himself? -lol

-snapper-

Kendrick,

I went to see BFC. Did I walk in thinking, "Gee, let me buy a ticket to this here movie and educate myself about guns in America". No Kendrick, I did not. I, and most everyone I know who went to see this movie, know who Michael Moore is, and that he has an agenda. Did I think the incident with the dog that shot it's master's leg was representative of all gun owners? No. Was it funny and did it underline the absurdity that exists in a country where guns are so easy to get, so hard to keep track of, and figure so prominently in people's lives? Yes. This fellow who takes the time to 'expose' Moore, (yes I waded through it out of respect to you), misses the point completely.

I still believe Heston was an asshole to go there on those dates. Bottom line, victims, and families of victims didn't want him there, and didn't deserve the additional pain he caused them.

With roughly equal rates of gun ownership in both countrys, Canada's death rate by guns is roughly 1 percent of that in the U.S. How can any American be comfortable with that?

Sancho,

Good for you buddy. You get a rush from firing off weapons? See, you do have something in common with those guys in the Middle East. Knock yourself out. Just not with bullets coming back down, I hope.

I don't have a problem with responsible gun ownership. But for some reason, people in the U.S. use them on each other much more than any other place in the world. If you value freedom so much, surely you recognize the freedom to live your life without the constant fear of being shot? No? Is that unreasonable?

Snapper, if Michael Moore had a gun he probably really would turn it on himself. I really did laugh out loud on that one. But once he turned his own gun on himself he would miss and shoot an innocent bystander and then blame the death on hate mongers like me who made gunes to easily available to him in the first place. Also I suspect it would be my fault he was driven to turn his own gun on himself in the first place since my hate mongering is what made him hate himself for being an American/white/male in the first place.

Seriously, while I think Michael Moore is a lunatic and possibly a threat to my freedom because of the rhetoric he espouses. None the less, although I hold him in contempt, I have more respect for a man like that than I do for Clinton because at least he says what he feels and doesn't make any excuses.

Freedom is a double edged sword. Some people would rather live a tranquil life where they do not have to worry about anything but also give up their freedom of choice. I would rather run the risk of being shot than have my rites diminished. As for those who hurt innocent people with there guns. With great freedom should come great consequences if you take away someone else's freedom. But don't blame the actions of others on me. Collective guilt is not something I feel. (unlike many others who are all hung up in collective guilt) My guns never hurt anyone and never will hurt any innocent person. I feel zero responsibility for the actions of others that I have no control over, and resent it greatly if I should be penalized for there actions.

You guys joking about MM and turning a gun on himself obviously did not see the movie. As a kid he won a marksmanship award. So he knows how to handle a gun.

I don't know why you guys start crying about 'rights' as soon as the topic turns to guns. You don't think it's an infringement of your rights when the state obigates you to get a license before you can drive, why would you think your rights are being affected by a law to regulate ownership and use of guns? I don't understand that attitude. And before you come back and tell me that such a law would only be the first step in a government plot to take your guns away from you - let me tell you that's complete b.s. Look to other societies. That hasn't happened anywhere.

Sancho
"I have more respect for a man like that than I do for Clinton"

I must say that Michael Moore is a man of convictions, while Clinton is a man that should be convicted.


Lucky, I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm downloading(stealing) it right now. I must say that I don't really have a strong opinion on gun control, but I do have a strong opinion of our constitution. What's in the constitution is firm, and we can't let the wording of it be twisted around like a UN Resolution.

Yes, but your 'right to bear arms' is granted in the context of maintaining a "well regulated" militia for the purpose of securing the state. I didn't see anything about "letting loose for a rush" ;)

The men who produced this document, one of the greatest ever composed, had a genius for common sense. It they saw what their words were used to justify, they'd be the first to complain of twisting.

All this talk about bombs and guns has made my dick hard. I think I will be headed to Mexico in a couple of hours as soon as I get out of the office. Wish me luck at the border if hostilities break out. I'm working late tonight. Writing CNC programs for various missile parts our company sells. Been working long hours lately. There is a minor part I wrote the program for in every Tomahawk cruise missile. Funny. A year ago I programmed it. Our production machinist produced each part to exacting tolerances. Cute little Lao ladies hand finished each part with great care under a microscope. (only the Asian ladies can do that work since it requires tiny little hands) They were beautiful and perfect parts and our company really put a lot of work into making the best. Soon they will all be shrapnel scattered all over the Iraqi desert.

Two more hours till I'm off to TJ. Just have to finish this program.

You're too funny Sancho. Have a good night.

How can we lose, we have Uzbekistan on our side.

Michael Moore is a piece of shit. Did any of you hear how he abused the 5 pound an hour help in a venue in London where he was supposed to speak a few months ago. Living in Mexico where guns are illegal and only criminals are allowed to have them, I'll take US gun laws any day. At least the honest citizens can fight back if necessary.

Let us all hope that the "Target of opportunity" hit a few hours ago in ragheadistan was Saddam himself. If so, this whole war could end before it starts with no one getting hurt. That would be a very sweet outcome.

The border pedestrian wait was VERY s l o w this morning, although there were not as many cars as usual. It took me half an hour on my bike at 7:00AM, which is about 29 minutes longer than usual. Tomorrow should be interesting.

Back to the topic of this off-topic thread - THE WAR HAS STARTED! What a sweet, beautiful day. Soom, the real fireworks will start - it promises to be like nothing anyone has ever before seen.

In retrospect, as pissed off as I was when the 9-11 attacks occurred, it looks as if they will end up being a good thing in the long run. Just think, had the attacks not happened, Bush would currently be teamed up with Ashcroft, fighting a no holds barred war on porn, instead of the glorious war in Iraq we are about to partake in!

Finally got around to seeing Lord Of The Rings Part 2 yesterday. It was a little strange sitting in the theater watching the incredible battle scene at the end. On one hand I was totally zoned out on the nonstop action and the appreciation for the work that went into it movie, especially the last part. On the other hand it was hard not to think about the misery that aggressive confrontational people create throughout history whether it be in the Middle Earth or the Middle East.

Sorry Kendricks, but no war is glorious. It is the end result of the actions of assholes. And it really doesn't matter what flag they carry or what mumble jumbo god whose name they scream.

Not too long ago there was another movie, forgot its name already, where in the not too distant future a government agency went after people before BEFORE they committed a crime. Nice idea but obviously flawed. Still, it was fun fantasing about castrating all the 14 and 15 year olds that show extreme aggresive behavior. Catch 'em before they get out of the starting gate.

Damn, I'm starting to sound like some feminazi.

Hey, look who's coming back this summer. Terminator 3. Good ol' Arnold who ought to go after Grey Davis instead of wasting ammo on some robot from the future.

I'm watching the news channels with their instant coverage of the war. They even have a cam shot of Baghdad. I can't believe the people driving around. I'd be long gone by now. Nothing much is happening at the moment so I have to decide between reruns of video bombing shots from 1991 or firing up my well used copy of Diablo II where I am now a powerful and deadly Necromancer named Lord Spellbound.

http://www.tucko.com/hippypwnd/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3

Funnyshit, some Iraqi called in on a radio show.

Ok, I just got done watch'n Moore's film and it's much tamer than I thought it was going to be, or at least tamer than a lot of his other works. I always thought the best part of his work was when he would ambush CEOs and presidents of major corporations and make them look like idiots because they're not prepared for a interview/debate. If he had some of that in there then it would have been better.

...Oh yeah, he is 100% correct that violence in America is Dick Clark's fault. I hate that son of a bitch.

Ah, the calm before the storm. This is like prolonged foreplay. The excitement and tension build, our minds and bodies are constantly reaching higher planes of arousal, soon to climax in a glorious burst of mindblowing explosives and wholesale carnage. What a beautiful day!

Kendricks, you sound like Bin Laden describing 9/11.

Man this is absolutely disgusting.

It appears this war is all about profits for Halliburton.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rm/030319/bizfeature_energy_halliburton_1.html

benwhoownshalliburton

Ahhh yes we are bombing for peace, the same line that we used for Vietnam, The Smothers Brothers sang a song with the same name which prompted a call from President Johnson which soon ended the program.