By Kendricks on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 10:57 pm: Edit |
James, retarded kindergardeners might think that bin Laden was a CIA asset right up until 9-11. Any thinking person would realize that he stopped being a CIA asset when he was exiled from Saudi Arabia in 1990, for opposing American intervention in the fight against Iraq.
His involvement with the 1993 WTC bombing, the attack on the USS Cole, and attacks on US embassies in Africa were additional clues that he was no longer an asset of the CIA.
By Jamesbr1961 on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 11:26 pm: Edit |
Kendricks,
I have found 5 to 6 other sources of this story as well as firsthand accounts of hospital personel interviewed by Le Monde
but of course you did not see it on the 5:30 news so it could not be true, LOL
[© COPYRIGHT 2001, All Rights Reserved, Michael C. Ruppert and From The Wilderness Publications, May be copied and distributed for non-profit purposes only.]
Nov. 2, 2001, 12:00 PST -- On Oct. 31 the French daily Le Figaro dropped a bombshell. While in a Dubai hospital receiving treatment for a chronic kidney infection last July, Osama bin Laden met with a top CIA official -- presumably the chief of station. The meeting, held in bin Laden's private suite, took place at the American hospital in Dubai at a time when he was a wanted fugitive for the bombings of two U.S. embassies and last year's attack on the USS Cole. Bin Laden was eligible for execution according to a 2000 intelligence finding issued by President Bill Clinton before leaving office in January. Yet on July 14, 2001 he was allowed to leave Dubai on a private jet, and there were no Navy fighters waiting to force him down.
In 1985 Oliver North -- the only member of the Reagan-Bush years who doesn't appear to have a hand in the current war -- sent the Navy and commandos after terrorists on the cruise ship Achille Lauro. In his 1991 autobiography "Under Fire," while describing terrorist Abu Abbas North wrote, "I used to wonder: how many dead Americans will it take before we do something?" One could look at the number of Americans Osama bin Laden is alleged to have killed before Sept. 11 and ask the same question.
By Kendricks on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 11:53 pm: Edit |
LOL! You give credit to French newspapers? What are your other sources - The Arab News and Weekly World News? No wonder your head is so full of shit - you've been feeding yourself a steady diet of it.
(Message edited by kendricks on March 26, 2003)
By Jarocho on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:30 am: Edit |
James,
Here are the simple questions I asked myself: (You're welcome to give them a try).
First, did we suffer a terrorist attack before going to war with Iraq? Secondly, were terrorists planning more attacks regardless of the war on Iraq? Thirdly, what do you think will happen if we DON'T go after terrorists groups and regimes that will be very likely to support attacks on the U.S.?
We need to disrupt the plans of terrorist and regimes like Iraq because we need to think one to several moves ahead of the enemy. I don't solely based my opinion on that theory, but it makes sense to try get a MINIMUM probably of suffering more attacks.
By Dogster on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 02:55 am: Edit |
Who farted?
By Badseed on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 05:11 am: Edit |
Kendricks, you wrote:
W, keep on kicking ass, brother. God damn, it feels good to have someone with some balls in the white house for a change. What a great time to be an American!!!
...I agree. Exactly when will we be seeing you and your brother W on the front lines, kicking ass, in Iraq? I'm looking forward to it.
BS
By Dickjohnson on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 05:17 am: Edit |
Kendricks, you're a nutcake but at least Snappa worships you.
(Jamesbr I did not mean to imply that you are not entertaining in my previous post, if it could be read that way.)
Before I say I'm outta here, no point wasting my intelligence here, I'll just make a response.
Bomb the shit out of Vietnam? Dumb Kendricks, Do you know how big Vietnam is? Do you know it has tens of millions of civilians? Do you know how many bombs it'll take to bomb the whole Vietnam? The VCs are hiding in the jungle you gonna bomb every jungle in Vietnam? Piss the world off? The point of the war was not to nuke Vietnam and kill everyone you dumb fuck, it is to stop the spread of communism, which would spread from Vietnam to Cambodia to Thailand and more.
-DJ
By snapper on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 06:13 am: Edit |
Everyone here should worship Kendricks. He probably is the best writer this site has. While I don't agree with every stance he has I do agree with his statement of you being a dumbshit. Actually I was surprised to see him fall from his former parties' view on this war issue. Welcome to the right side Kenny.
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 06:45 am: Edit |
Batman, excellent post. Yes, there is little doubt that those protesting the war have emboldended Hussein. Much blood is, and will be, on the protesters' hands. This is why, even through their activities are legal, they are still traitors. They are endangering the very lives of the people who fight to protect their freedoms.
Badseed, I was in Gulf War I, during my 6 year tour of duty with the USMC. Now, it is the new generation's turn. How many wars have YOU fought?
Dickhead, go back and reread my post, where I stated "Dick, you dumbfuck, if the USA had simply bombed the shit out of the North Vietnamese command structure, we could have easily taken the whole country." Exactly when was it that I suggested we bomb the whole country?
Snapper, thanks for the welcome, and the kind words. The Democrats have really shown their true colors: pink and yellow. Grade A Asshole Tom Daschle even said, in a speech to the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees:
"I'm saddened, saddened that this president failed so miserably at diplomacy that we're now forced to war. Saddened that we have to give up one life because this president couldn't create the kind of diplomatic effort that was so critical for our country."
Hey Tom, now that we ARE at war, ever consider presenting a united front, to increase our chance of winning easily? It is people like Daschle, not Bush, who will be responsible for the unnecessary loss of many lives.
The world is a complex place, and the Republicans are the only party we have who demonstrate the will to defend and protect our place in it. The best defense is a good offense, and we simply cannot afford to lie back, and allow those who would destroy us to grow stronger.
Rock on, George W!!!
By snapper on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 07:18 am: Edit |
Have you ever seen Daschle's statements under Clinton's trim where he stated that we have exhausted all means of diplomacy? What a fucking hypocrite. They didn't even think about going to the same extent of diplomacy that this president did.
By snapper on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 07:18 am: Edit |
Have you ever seen Daschle's statements under Clinton's trim where he stated that we have exhausted all means of diplomacy? What a fucking hypocrite. They didn't even think about going to the same extent of diplomacy that this president did.
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 07:29 am: Edit |
"I hope Saddam Hussein and those who are in control of the Iraqi government clearly understand the resolve and determination of this administration and this country. This may be a political year, . . . but on this issue there can be no disunity. There can be no lack of cohesion. We stand united, Republicans and Democrats, determined to send as clear a message with as clear a resolve as we can articulate: Saddam Hussein's actions will not be tolerated. His willingness to brutally attack Kurds in northern Iraq and abrogate U.N. resolutions is simply unacceptable. We intend to make that point clear with the use of force, with the use of legislative language, and with the use of other actions that the president and the Congress have at their disposal."
Tom Daschle – September 1996
"Look, we have exhausted virtually our diplomatic effort to get the Iraqis to comply with their own agreements and with international law. Given that, what other option is there but to force them to do so? . . . The answer is, we don't have another option. We have got to force them to comply, and we are doing so militarily."
Tom Daschle – February, 1998
"I don't know what purpose it serves by attacking one another at this point. I mean, if ever there was a time for us to present a unified front to Iraq, this ought to be it. . . . Let's not . . . send all kinds of erroneous messages to Iraq about what kind of unity there is within the community."
Tom Daschle, March, 1998
"I'm saddened, saddened that this president failed so miserably at diplomacy that we're now forced to war."
Tom Daschle, March, 2003
"Rot in hell, Traitor Tom!"
John Kendricks, March, 2003
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 07:53 am: Edit |
Interesting that it looks like the civilians that were killed in Iraq yesterday were as a result of secondary explosions as we destroyed a rocket battery.
Ok Kendricks now I understand where you are coming from you are ex military. You are taught to never question authority, never question your government, never think for yourself, just follow orders. You would have had much praise for Saddam as a soldier in the Repubican Guard as well I am sure as your job is to support the status quo, but this is not your fault it is just how you were taught to think or not to think for yourself. Well anyway it really is looking like the people are taking to the streets and rejoicing our "liberation" This is perhaps the most Nationalistic country in the Mid East. In my opinion we simply do not have enough boots on the ground to be successful in hous to house combat in Bagdad. Basara could takes weeks or months with the small contingent outside that city.
So Kendricks let me ask you, what do you say to people that say that there is overwelming evidence that certain organizations and or persons here in the US/ CIA were aware of the plan of 9/11 and at the very least allowed it to happen. Is that just a crazy thought for you, as conspiracy theories are concerned that is the grandaddy of them all.
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 07:59 am: Edit |
Jaracho
I think that pre emtion on the scale of nation building could very easily destablize the entire world. I would think that we could think of something a little better than going in and destroying entire countries killine thousands of inocent civilians to combat terrorism. Once again Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and their ties to terrorism are dubious at best.
By Ldvee on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:03 am: Edit |
found this on another message board, thought I'd pass it along:
-----------------------------------
When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.
He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return."
It became very quiet in the room.
----------------------------------------
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:11 am: Edit |
Ldvee
Yes you are right, but it is my opinion that the attitude is changing fast. What many are talking about now is world domination by coporate US led by GW as possibly what is part of what is going on here.
By Ben on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:16 am: Edit |
Interesting article from Rueters today. French are basically saying the same thing.
Good fuckin luck!!
Go HAL.
Russia says to defend post-war Iraq oil interests
Thursday March 27, 6:54 am ET
MOSCOW, March 27 (Reuters) - Russia on Thursday moved to defend its oil interests in Iraq, saying it would insist that Russian oil company contracts with Baghdad be honoured after the U.S.-led war to overthrow the government of Saddam Hussein.
Energy Minister Igor Yusufov said Russian oil companies should be involved in the reconstruction of Iraq's oil infrastructure as soon as the war was over.
"We are currently working on the immediate return of Russian firms, which have interests in Iraq, to the country as soon as peace is restored," Yusufov told local news agencies.
His comments came after some Russian oil bosses said they were sceptical about the prospects of keeping multi-billion dollar deals in a post-Saddam Iraq, especially after the United States began this week to hire its firms to rebuild the Iraqi oil industry.
"They should return to their projects, evaluate the situation with the equipment left and start working," Yusufov said of Russian firms.
Nikolai Tokarev, the head of Russian state oil firm Zarubezhneft, which has big interests in Iraq, told Reuters this week he saw no prospects for Russian firms in post-war Iraq as the United States would squeeze its rivals out of the region.
He also said he was sceptical about the prospects of using international law to keep existing deals under a government that might replace Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's.
U.S. oil services firms, including a subsidiary of Halliburton Inc (NYSE:HAL - News), formerly headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, this week was awarded U.S. government contracts to assess and extinguish oil well fires in Iraq and supply well control services.
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:21 am: Edit |
Ben
I think the bottom line is the reason as so many have pointed out here that Russia and France are against this is that they fear US corporate domination,
By Ben on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:26 am: Edit |
Jamesbr,
You are more or less correct in that the F and R never supported us because of their current financial interests in Iraq.
By Ldvee on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:27 am: Edit |
Jamesbr1961,
I don't buy the idea about world domination via war.
I remember Hawaii back in the 80s when the Japanese economy was strong and 40 years after Pearl Harbor. The Japanese were buying/developing enormous amounts of large and small Hawaiian properties. That's the way for a country, person, corporation, any entity to gain territory/riches - buy it, not steal it.
By Luckyjackson on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:32 am: Edit |
Batster,
As you know, I thought your post justifying the reasons for war was a fine piece of thinking. Since then though, what you've said makes little sense to me.
The argument put forward by Kendricks, i.e. that protest during a war equals treason, is a fascist view, plain and simple. I would say anyone who believes in that argument is a traitor who has betrayed the highest ideals of what America aspires to be, as set out in the Constitution, The Bill of Rights and The Declaration of Independence. In fact one of the reasons the Bill of Rights was created was due to the British Government's attempt to suspend rights during time of war.
I agree that the people protesting against this war are wrong. But suggesting that their rights be suspended during a time of war betrays the way of life you're fighting to protect. Rather than attacking them as traitors, those of us who support the war should be publicly defending their right to protest, and quietly reminding them that they'd have no such right if they lived under the rule of Saddam Hussein.
The view put forward by Kendricks is a shabby and cowardly one, unworthy of the history of your country.
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:49 am: Edit |
James said: "Ok Kendricks now I understand where you are coming from you are ex military. You are taught to never question authority, never question your government, never think for yourself, just follow orders."
No, you do not understand where I am coming from at all. My time in the military actually taught me to hate anyone who believes he has the right to excercise authority over me. If anything, my true political leanings are towards anarchy.
However, humanity is too fundamentally flawed to live under anarchy. Should any current civilization not organize itself, and provide for its defense, it would be crushed and controlled by external groups, such as radical islamic fundamentalists.
Clearly, we are best off with the USA running the global show, instead of letting assholes like bin Laden and Hussein call the shots.
It therefore follows that, when we are at war with those who would destroy us, it is necessary to act (or at least present the image) of a cohesive group, since that is all that the people we are dealing with understand. Appeals to the humanity of middle eastern dictators will get you nowhere.
Anything else is, in a word, traitorous.
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:54 am: Edit |
Unlucky Jackoff, you have entirely misstated my argument. Not surprising, since you are entirely unable to refute my words.
I have NOT argued that the traitorous protesters do not have the legal right to peacefully protest. Nor have I advocated that peaceful protests be banned by law.
In contrast, I have simply demonstrated that, since their actions are strengthening the resolve of our enemies during an armed conflict, and will result in increased suffering and death for our soldiers and marines, those who ARE publicly protesting are filthy, disgusting, cocksucking traitors.
You can take an action that is legal, but still reprehensible. A tough concept for a jackoff like you to understand, but maybe you can find someone to explain it to you very, very slowly.
(Message edited by kendricks on March 27, 2003)
By Luckyjackson on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:24 am: Edit |
Kendricks,
Refuting your words is not difficult.
You are wrong in more than one way. The first, and most important way you are wrong is in terms of a betrayal of your nation's ideals - as I already pointed out to you in my previous post.
But you are also wrong in terms of simple strategy. Here's the why and the how of it.
If your view were correct, i.e. peace protests encourage Iraq to torture and murder coalition soldiers in order to prolong the war, then it follows that Bush and Blair would play down those incidents. The reverse is true. Every time they come on T.V. both these leaders EMPHASIZE Iraqi atrocities. Why? Because they know that such incidents galvanize the public and wins supporters. The Iraqis may be doing many things to prolong the war, but killing and torture are not amongst them. There is a simpler explanation for those acts. Hatred. I'm surprised you didn't recognize that, since you use the word often and that emotion shines through in your posts.
Allowing protest while disagreeing with it is a strength of democracy, not a weakness. But perhaps I'm wasting my time pointing that out to you since you didn't seem to mind the label of Fascist in the least. Your contribution on this subject is the best proof of why soldiers should follow orders and leave the thinking to elected representatives.
(Message edited by luckyjackson on March 27, 2003)
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:31 am: Edit |
Jackoff, you again demonstrate an amazing inability to understand even the simplest of concepts.
First, Bush and Blair are NOT emphasizing the protests. They are bringing up the torture and atrocities committed by the Iraqis, as this will hopefully snap at least some protesters to their senses. In other words, your comments make no rational sense.
Further, in the minds of middle eastern fanatics, the fact that our government allows protest is a sign of weakness. You need to learn to think outside the confines of your little fantasy world to understand the true consequence of actions.
Read these words very slowly: Even though war protests are legal, they strenghten the resolve of our enemy. Therefore, people who excercise their right to protest during a shooting war are nothing but cocksucking traitors.
Try actually refuting what I wrote, instead of creating fictitious arguments to attack. Can't do it, eh? What a fucking surprise.
(Message edited by kendricks on March 27, 2003)
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:41 am: Edit |
kendricks
"My time in the military actually taught me to hate anyone who believes he has the right to excercise authority over me. If anything, my true political leanings are towards anarchy."
So do you think that the people of all these countries you think that we should invade, destroy, control and exercise our authority over, should have the right to hate us???
Furthermore do you not think that the mass slaughter of people and nations that have never attacked us would in these peoples minds give them and even greater cause and reason to bring to the terror to the US and our families in ever greater numbers. You would like to further inflame the Muslum world against us in ever greater numbers. You are just like many but not all other mindless numbsculls that have been programed by their military expereince that invasion and domination through war and killing is a great and wonderful thing. So next stop, Iran, Syria, Lybia, Saudi Arabia, so that we now have the right to In your words "exercise our authority over them" because 9/11 happened we now have the right to exort a terror campaign on the inocent civilians of the world at the time of our choosing simply because we can. You should read the US Constitution sometime as well by the way.
Many within the US intelligance community were aware that 9/11 was about to happen, and were suppressed by others that wanted it to happen, the evidence of this is immense.
By Dogster on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:45 am: Edit |
Goddammit, Luckyjackson, I called him a fascist before you did. (at least I think I was first). Therefore, I get credit for the kill.
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:46 am: Edit |
"So do you think that the people of all these countries you think that we should invade, destroy, control and exercise our authority over, should have the right to hate us???"
Anyone in the world has the right to hate anyone they want. If we have an ounce of sense, though, we will make sure that those who hate us do not have the ability to destroy us. That is what war is about.
If you support our enemies over us, you are a filthy traitor. You have the right to hold traitorous opinions, of course, and I have the right to expose you for what you are. Fortunately, Republicans are running our government now and for the forseeable future, so you and your ilk will be rightfully ignored by the power structure.
"Many within the US intelligance community were aware that 9/11 was about to happen, and were suppressed by others that wanted it to happen, the evidence of this is immense."
Which issue of the Weekly World News was that story in? I must have missed it... If the evidence is "immense", let's see some of it.
(Message edited by kendricks on March 27, 2003)
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:47 am: Edit |
Bitchster, you get credit only for being a pseudointellectual bitch. Now go run along to a traitor rally, and find some nice smelly hippie cock to suck.
By Luckyjackson on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:57 am: Edit |
Kendricks,
You need no help to make a fool of yourself. Here's what I wrote,
============================================
"If your view were correct, i.e. peace protests encourage Iraq to torture and murder coalition soldiers in order to prolong the war, then it follows that Bush and Blair would play down those incidents. The reverse is true. Every time they come on T.V. both these leaders EMPHASIZE Iraqi atrocities."
============================================
Somehow, you read that and understood me to say they are emphasizing the protests. Maybe you should calm down, wipe the spittle from your chin, and read a little more carefully.
Furthermore, demonstrating to these "m.e. fanatics" that a democracy is able to act AND protect individual rights is a sign of strength, not weakness.
You've said that the decision to protest is 'filthy'. You are wrong. If those people are out there protesting from a sincere conviction that the war is unnecessary, then they are right to do it. The quickest way to lose a right is not to use it.
If I understand your argument, you would say that people who disagree with the war should keep quiet. In other words, they can have the right to protest, but should never use it. That makes a lot of sense. ;)
How would you feel if in the future the shoe were on the other foot, and YOU disagreed with something the government of the day was doing. Would you appreciate being told that you have a right to protest, but would be considered a traitor if you used it?
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:59 am: Edit |
Kendricks
or any one else that might be interested
This is just one of mamy timelines that have some information about forknowledge, this is less detailed so that the copy and paste is not too too long. As for me, I am not sure what I believe in all this, but I will say the some of the evidence is quite compelling, especially where the Executive director of the CIA's bank made millions on put options on AA and UA stock that were placed just days before the attacks.
AT the risk of pasting too lenghy a list I will post this rather un detailed timeline
"Oh Lucy! - You Gotta Lotta
'Splainin To Do"
A TIMELINE SURROUNDING SEPTEMBER 11TH - IF CIA AND THE GOVERNMENT WEREN'T INVOLVED IN THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS
WHAT WERE THEY DOING?
by Michael C. Ruppert
[© COPYRIGHT 2001, All Rights Reserved, Michael C. Ruppert and From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. May be copied and distributed for non-profit purposes only.]
[Expanded and Revised Sept. 4, 2002 - Evidence of Bush Administration Foreknowledge and complicity is now overwhelming. Since our last revision July 11, 2002, 16 New Items! (noted in RED)]
Nov. 2, 2001, 12:00 PST -- On Oct. 31 the French daily Le Figaro dropped a bombshell. While in a Dubai hospital receiving treatment for a chronic kidney infection last July, Osama bin Laden met with a top CIA official -- presumably the chief of station. The meeting, held in bin Laden's private suite, took place at the American hospital in Dubai at a time when he was a wanted fugitive for the bombings of two U.S. embassies and last year's attack on the USS Cole. Bin Laden was eligible for execution according to a 2000 intelligence finding issued by President Bill Clinton before leaving office in January. Yet on July 14, 2001 he was allowed to leave Dubai on a private jet, and there were no Navy fighters waiting to force him down.
In 1985 Oliver North -- the only member of the Reagan-Bush years who doesn't appear to have a hand in the current war -- sent the Navy and commandos after terrorists on the cruise ship Achille Lauro. In his 1991 autobiography "Under Fire," while describing terrorist Abu Abbas North wrote, "I used to wonder: how many dead Americans will it take before we do something?" One could look at the number of Americans Osama bin Laden is alleged to have killed before Sept. 11 and ask the same question.
It gets worse, much worse. A more complete timeline listing crucial events both before and after the Sept. 11 suicide attacks, which have been blamed on bin Laden, establishes CIA foreknowledge of them and strongly suggests that there was criminal complicity on the part of the U.S. government in their execution. It also makes clear that the events that have taken place since Sept. 11 are based upon an agenda that has little to do with the attacks.
[June 19, 2002] -- As the revelations of Bush Administration foreknowledge have progressed from silence, to trickle, to cascade, the question has now changed from forcing the evidence into the open into one of forcing both the media and the people to avoid denying this information in the hopes that their desire for a sense of "normalcy" can be fulfilled. As many of us have known for years, normalcy went out the window forever when the first plane hit the tower. And what has been revealed will not be resolved with an expensive fact-finding commission, a few firing, or even an impeachment proceeding. What is needed in America -- and in the global economic system -- is an overhaul, not a tune up.
1. 1991-1997 - Major U.S. oil companies including ExxonMobil, Texaco, Unocal, BP Amoco, Shell and Enron directly invest billions in cash bribing heads of state in Kazakhstan to secure equity rights in the huge oil reserves in these regions. The oil companies further commit to future direct investments in Kazakhstan of $35 billion. Not being willing to pay exorbitant prices to Russia to use Russian pipelines, the major oil companies have no way to recoup their investments. [Source: "The Price of Oil" by Seymour Hersh, The New Yorker, July 9, 2001 - The Asia Times, "The Roving Eye Part I Jan. 26, 2002.]
2. January 1995 - Philippine police investigating a possible attack on the Pope uncover plans for Operation Bojinka, connected to World Trade Center (WTC) bomber Ramsi Youssef. Parts of the plan call for crashing hijacked airliners into civilian targets. Details of the plan are disclosed in Youssef's 1997 trial for the 1993 WTC bombing. [Source: Agence France-Presse, Dec. 7, 2001]
3. Dec. 4, 1997 - Representatives of the Taliban are invited guests to the Texas headquarters of Unocal to negotiate their support for the pipeline. Subsequent reports will indicate that the negotiations failed, allegedly because the Taliban wanted too much money. [Source: The BBC, Dec. 4, 1997]
4. Feb. 12, 1998 - Unocal Vice President John J. Maresca -- later to become a special ambassador to Afghanistan -- testifies before the House that until a single, unified, friendly government is in place in Afghanistan, the trans-Afghani pipeline needed to monetize the oil will not be built. [Source: Testimony before the House International Relations Committee: http://www.house.gov/international_relations/105th/ap/wsap212982.htm]
5. August 1998 - After the U.S. cruise missile attacks on Al Qaeda targets in Afghanistan in retaliation for the African embassy bombings, Unocal officially withdraws from participation in the CentGas trans-Afghani gas pipeline project. [Various sources, Unocal]
6. 1998 - The CIA ignores warnings from Case Officer Robert Baer that Saudi Arabia was harboring an Al Qaeda cell led by two known terrorists. A more detailed list of known terrorists is offered to Saudi intelligence in August 2001 and refused. [Source: Financial Times Jan. 21, 2001; "See No Evil" by Robert Baer (release date February 2002)]
7. April 1999 - Enron with a $3 billion investment to build an electrical generating plant at Dabhol, India loses access to plentiful LNG supplies from Qatar to fuel the plant. Its only remaining option to make the investment profitable is a trans-Afghani gas pipeline to be built by Unocal from Turkmenistan that would terminate near the Indian border at the city of Multan. [Source: The Albion Monitor, Feb. 28, 2002]
8. July 4, 1999 - President Clinton signs Executive Order 13129, which freezes Taliban assets in the U.S. and prohibits trade between the Afghan fundamentalist regime and U.S. entities. [Source: Federal Register, Vol. 64, No. 129, July 7, 1999]
9. 1998 and 2000 - Former President George H.W. Bush travels to Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the U.S. While there he meets privately with the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden family. [Source: Wall Street Journal, Sept. 27, 2001. See also FTW, Vol. IV, No. 7 - "The Best Enemies Money Can Buy"
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/carlyle.html]
10. March 2000 - An FBI agent, reportedly angry over a glitch in Carnivore that has somehow mixed innocent non-targeted emails with those belonging to Al Qaeda, destroys all of the FBI's Denver-based intercepts of bin Laden's colleagues in a terrorist investigation. [Source: The Washington Post, May 29, 2002]
11. 2000 (est.) - The FBI refuses to disclose the date of an internal memo stating that a Middle Eastern nation had been trying to purchase a flight simulator. [Source: Los Angeles Times, May 30, 2002]
12. August 2000 -- Suspected Al Qaeda operatives wiretapped by Italian police made apparent references to plans for major attacks involving airports, airplanes and the United States according to transcripts obtained by the Los Angeles Times. The Times suggests that the information might not have been passed to U.S. authorities (hard to believe), but it did report that Italian authorities would not comment on the report. The Times also noted that "Italian and U.S. anti-terrorism experts cooperate closely." [Source: The Los Angeles Times, May 29, 2002]
13. Oct. 24-26, 2000 - Pentagon officials carry out a "detailed" emergency drill based upon the crashing of a hijacked airliner into the Pentagon. [Source: The Mirror, May 24, 2002]
14. January 2001 - The Bush Administration orders the FBI and intelligence agencies to "back off" investigations involving the bin Laden family, including two of Osama bin Laden's relatives (Abdullah and Omar) who were living in Falls Church, Va. -- right next to CIA headquarters. This followed previous orders dating back to 1996 that frustrated efforts to investigate the bin Laden family. [Source: BBC Newsnight, Correspondent Gregg Palast, Nov. 7, 2001]
15. Jan. 30, 2001 - Sept. 11 hijacker Ziad Jarrah was questioned in the United Arab Emirates (UAE). A number of UAE, Middle Eastern, European, and U.S. sources were cited in this CNN report, which said the CIA requested Jarrah be interrogated because he had been in Afghanistan and was suspected to have ties to terrorists. An unnamed CIA spokesman said the other sources' claims that the agency knew anything about Jarrah before Sept. 11 were "flatly untrue." Jarrah's Jan. 30 detainment at the airport in Dubai, UAE came six months after he took flying lessons in the U.S. Jarrah was released because "U.S. officials were satisfied," said the report. [Source: CNN, Aug. 1, 2002 http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/01/cia.hijacker/index.html]
16. Feb. 13, 2001 - UPI terrorism correspondent Richard Sale -- while covering a trial of bin Laden's Al Qaeda followers -- reports that the National Security Agency has broken bin Laden's encrypted communications. Even if this indicates that bin Laden changed systems in February, it does not mesh with the fact that the government insists that the attacks had been planned for years.
17. May 2001 - Secretary of State Colin Powell gives $43 million in aid to the Taliban regime, purportedly to assist hungry farmers who are starving since the destruction of their opium crop in January on orders of the Taliban regime. [Source: Los Angeles Times, May 22, 2001]
18. May 2001 - Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, a career covert operative and former Navy Seal, travels to India on a publicized tour, while CIA Director George Tenet makes a quiet visit to Pakistan to meet with Pakistani leader Gen. Pervez Musharraf. Armitage has long and deep Pakistani intelligence connections. It would be reasonable to assume that while in Islamabad, Tenet, in what was described as "an unusually long meeting," also met with his Pakistani counterpart, Lt. Gen. Mahmud Ahmad, head of the ISI. [Source: The Indian SAPRA news agency, May 22, 2001]
19. June 2001 - German intelligence, the BND, warns the CIA and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists are "planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture." [Source: Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Sept. 14, 2001; See
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/f_a_zeitung_story.html]
20. June 8, 2001 - Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) publishes a story headlined, "Central Asia: Charges Link Russian Military to Drug Trade." According to the article, figures for 1999 published in a report by the United Nations Drug Control Program (UNDCP) revealed that 80 percent of the heroin consumed in Western Europe originated in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The UNDCP report also revealed half of the drugs in that 80 percent traveled through Central Asia. A study by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace published in March 2000 said Russian soldiers headquartered in Tajikistan were suspected of helping drug traffickers by providing them with transportation facilities. This was confirmed by a Russian intelligence officer who told the Moscow News weekly, "You can come to an arrangement [with custom officials] so that the search of military transport planes remains purely formal. The same goes for train convoys carrying military cargo [to Russia from Tajikistan]." [Source: www.rferl.org/nca/features/2001/06/08062001111711.asp]
21. July 2001 - FBI agents in Arizona write a memorandum warning about suspicious activities involving a group of Middle Eastern men taking flight training lessons in Phoenix. The memorandum specifically mentions Osama bin Laden and warns of connections to terrorist activities. [Source: The New York Times, May 14, 2002]
22. summer 2001 - The National Security Council convenes a Dabhol working group as revealed in a series of government e-mails obtained by the Washington Post and the New York Daily News. [Source: The Albion Monitor, Feb. 28, 2002]
23. summer 2001 - According to a Sept. 26 story in Britain's The Guardian, correspondent David Leigh reported that "U.S. department of defense official, Dr. Jeffrey Starr, visited Tajikistan in January. The Guardian's Felicity Lawrence established that U.S. Rangers were also training special troops in Kyrgyzstan. There were unconfirmed reports that Tajik and Uzbek special troops were training in Alaska and Montana."
24. summer 2001 (est.) - Pakistani ISI Chief Gen. Ahmad (see above) orders an aide to wire transfer $100,000 to Mohammed Atta who was, according to the FBI, the lead terrorist in the suicide hijackings. Ahmad recently resigned after the transfer was disclosed in India and confirmed by the FBI. The individual who makes the wire transfer at Ahmad's direction is Ahmad Umar Sheik, the lead suspect in the kidnapping and murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. [Source: The Times of India, Oct.11, 2001.]
25. summer 2001 - The online newswire online.ie reports on Sept. 14 that an Iranian man phones U.S. law enforcement to warn of an imminent attack on the WTC in the week of Sept. 9. German police confirm the calls but state that the U.S. Secret Service would not reveal any further information. [Source:
http://www.online.ie/news/viewer.adp?article=1512332.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/online_ie_story.html ]
26. summer 2001 - Jordanian intelligence, the GID, makes a communications intercept deemed so important that King Abdullah's men relay it to Washington, probably through the CIA station in Amman. To make doubly sure the message got through it was passed through an Arab intermediary to a German intelligence agent. The message: A major attack was planned inside the U.S., and aircraft would be used. The code name of the operation was "The Big Wedding." "When it became clear that the information was embarrassing to Bush Administration officials and congressmen who at first denied that there had been any such warnings before Sept. 11, senior Jordanian officials backed away from their earlier confirmations." This case was authenticated by ABC reporter John K. Cooley. [Source: International Herald Tribune (IHT), May 21, 2002]
27. summer 2001 (est.) - The National Security Agency intercepts telephone conversations between bin Laden aide Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Mohammed Atta and does not share the information with any other agencies. [Source: Jonathan Landay, Knight Ridder Newspapers, June 6, 2002]
28. June 26, 2001 - The magazine indiareacts.com states that "India and Iran will 'facilitate' U.S. and Russian plans for 'limited military action' against the Taliban." The story indicates that the fighting will be done by U.S. and Russian troops with the help of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. [Source: indiareacts.com, June 26, 2001]
29. summer 2001 - Russian intelligence notifies the CIA that 25 terrorist pilots have been specifically training for missions involving hijacked airliners. This is reported in the Russian press and news stories are translated for FTW by a retired CIA officer. (Note: The story currently on the Izvestia web site has been edited to delete a key paragraph.) [Source: Izvestia, Sept. 12, 2001,
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/izvestia_story_pic.html]
30. July 4-14, 2001 - Osama bin Laden receives treatment for kidney disease at the American hospital in Dubai and meets with a CIA official, who returns to CIA headquarters on July 15. [Source: Le Figaro, Oct. 31, 2001]
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/Le Figaro_osama_dubai.html
31. July 15, 2001 - Members of the G8, meeting in Genoa, Italy, discuss the Taliban, pipelines, and the handing over of Osama bin Laden. According to Pakistani representative Ambassador Naiz Naik, the U.S. delegation, led by former Clinton Ambassador to Pakistan Tom Simmons warned of a "military option" if the Taliban did not change position. [Source: Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, "Bin Laden: La Verite Interdite," pp76-7. Thanks to Prof. Peter Dale Scott]
32. July 2001 - Immediately after the G8 Summit three American officials -- Tom Simmons (former U.S. ambassador to Pakistan), Karl Inderfurth (former assistant secretary of state for South Asian affairs) and Lee Coldren (former State Department expert on South Asia) -- meet with Pakistani and Russian intelligence officers in Berlin and tell them that the U.S. is planning military strikes against Afghanistan in October. A French book released in November, "Bin Laden - La Verite Interdite," discloses that Taliban representatives often sat in on the meetings. British papers confirm that the Pakistani ISI relayed the threats to the Taliban. [Source: The Guardian, Sept. 22, 2001; the BBC, Sept. 18, 2001; The Inter Press Service, Nov. 16, 2001; Alexander's Gas and Oil Connections, Feb. 21, 2002]
33. July 2001 - The G8 summit at Genoa, Italy is surrounded by anti-aircraft guns, and local airspace is closed off after Italian and Egyptian officials (including President Hosni Mubarak) warn American intelligence that airliners stuffed with explosives might be used to attack President Bush. U.S. officials state that the warnings were "unsubstantiated." (But I wonder if they would have taken away the anti-aircraft artillery?) [Source: Los Angeles Times, Sept. 27, 2001]
34. July 26, 2001 - CBS News reports that John Ashcroft has stopped flying commercial airlines due a threat assessment. Ashcroft told the press that he didn't know anything about what had caused it.
35. Aug. 2, 2001 - U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, Christine Rocca (a former CIA officer), meets in Islamabad with a Taliban ambassador and demands the extradition of bin Laden. This was the last known meeting on the subject. [Source: Brisard and Dasquie, p 79. Thanks to Prof. Peter Dale Scott]
36. August 2001 - The FBI arrests an Islamic militant linked to bin Laden in Boston. French intelligence sources confirm that the man is a key member of bin Laden's network and the FBI learns that he has been taking flying lessons. At the time of his arrest the man is in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals. [Source: Reuters, Sept. 13, 2001]
37. Aug. 11 or 12, 2001 ‚ U.S. Navy Lt. Delmart "Mike" Vreeland, jailed in Toronto on U.S. fraud charges and claiming to be an officer with U.S. naval intelligence, writes details of the pending WTC attacks and seals them in an envelope, which he gives to Canadian authorities. [Source: The Toronto Star, Oct. 23, 2001; Toronto Superior Court Records]
38. August 2001 - As reported in the IHT both a French magazine (name not given) and a Moroccan newspaper simultaneously report that a Moroccan agent named Hassan Dabou had penetrated Al Qaeda to the point of getting close to bin Laden, who was "very disappointed" that the 1993 bombing had not toppled the WTC. Dabou was called to the U.S. after reporting this, which curtailed his ability to stay in touch with the organization and gather additional intelligence that might have prevented the attacks. Though not proved beyond a doubt, these stories have been met with a wall of silence. [The IHT, May 21, 2002]
39. August 2001 - Russian President Vladimir Putin orders Russian intelligence to warn the U.S. government "in the strongest possible terms" of imminent attacks on airports and government buildings. [Source: MSNBC interview with Putin, Sept. 15, 2001]
40. August 2001 - President Bush receives classified intelligence briefings at his Crawford, Texas ranch indicating that Osama bin Laden might be planning to hijack commercial airliners. [CBS News; CNN, May 15, 2002]
41. late-August 2001 - Prince Turki, the pro-U.S. head of Saudi intelligence (also known to be close to bin Laden), is replaced by his more neutral half-brother, Prince Nawwaf who is an ally of Crown Prince Abdullah. [Source: Saudi Arabian Information Resource, Aug. 31, 2001; http://www.saudinf.com/ - Thanks to Prof. Peter Dale Scott]
42. August/September 2001 - The Dow Jones Industrial Average drops nearly 900 points in the three weeks prior to the attack. A major stock market crash is imminent.
43. August/September 2001 - According to a detailed 13-page memo written by Minneapolis FBI legal officer Colleen Rowley, FBI headquarters ignores urgent, direct warnings from French intelligence services about pending attacks. In addition, a single Supervisory Special Agent (SSA) in Washington expends extra effort to thwart the field office's investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui, in one case rewriting Rowley's affidavit for a search warrant to search Moussaoui's laptop. Rowley's memo uses terms like "deliberately sabotage," "block," "integrity," "omitted," "downplayed," "glossed over," "mis-characterize," "improper political reasons, "deliberately thwarting," "deliberately further undercut," "suppressed," and "not completely honest." These are not terms describing negligent acts but rather, deliberate acts. FBI field agents desperately attempt to get action, but to no avail. One agent speculates that bin Laden might be planning to crash airliners into the WTC, while Rowley ironically noted that the SSA who had committed these deliberate actions had actually been promoted after Sept. 11. [Source: Associated Press, May 21, 2002]
44. Sept. 3-10, 2001 - MSNBC reports on Sept. 16 that a caller to a Cayman Islands radio talk show gave several warnings of an imminent attack on the U.S. by bin Laden in the week prior to 9-11.
45. early-September 2001 - An FBI internal document, based upon field notes from Minnesota field agents discloses that the agents had been investigating and had questioned the "20th hijacker," Zacarias Moussaoui. The field notes speculate that Moussaoui, who had been taking flight lessons, might crash an airliner into the WTC. Interestingly, the field agents' requests to obtain a search warrant for his personal computer were denied. French intelligence confirms to the FBI that Moussaoui has ties to terrorist groups and may have traveled to Afghanistan. The agents also had no knowledge of the Phoenix memo (See Item #18). One news story states that agents were in "a frenzy," absolutely convinced that he was "going to do something with a plane." [Source: Newsweek, May 20, 2002 issue, story by Michael Isikoff].
46. Sept. 1-10 2001 - In an exercise, called Operation "Swift Sword" and planned for four years, 23,000 British troops are steaming toward Oman. Although the 9-11 attacks caused a hiccup in the deployment, the massive operation was implemented as planned. At the same time two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive on station in the Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast. Also at the same time, some 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO troops in Egypt for Operation "Bright Star." All of these forces are in place before the first plane hits the WTC. [Sources: The Guardian; CNN; Fox; The Observer; International Law Professor Francis Boyle, the University of Illinois.]
47. Sept. 4-5, 2001 - A freshman at Brooklyn's New Utrecht High School who had recently emigrated from Pakistan reportedly predicts the destruction of the World Trade Center a week prior to the 9-11 attacks, according to the JournalNews newspaper in White Plains, N.Y. Citing "three police sources and a city official familiar with the investigation" as well as confirmation from the FBI that the bureau had received this information, the paper reported that in the midst of a heated class discussion the student pointed to the World Trade Center from a third story window and said, "Do you see those two buildings? They won't be standing there next week." New York City Board of Education spokeswoman Catie Marshall confirmed for the JournalNews "that school officials reported the matter to police within minutes of the Sept. 11 attack" and students told the paper that "FBI agents and NYPD detectives descended on the school on Sept. 13 to interrogate the student [who made the prediction] and others in his class," which was "an English class for Arab-American students." [Source: The JournalNews, Oct. 11, 2001, http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/101101/11warumors.html]
48. Sept. 5, 2001 - "Five hundred websites -- many of them with an Arab or Muslim connection -- crash when an anti-terrorism taskforce raids InfoCom Corp. in Texas," reported Britain's the Guardian on Sept. 10, 2001. A taskforce of approximately 80 federal agents and officials from the FBI, Secret Service, INS, Customs, Bureau of Diplomatic Security, IRS, and Commerce Department occupied InfoCom's office building in the Dallas suburb of Richardson, Texas for four days, "copying every hard disc they could find." InfoCom hosts many websites for Middle Eastern clients and is located across the street from the Holy Land Foundation, a charitable organization which has been alleged to have connections with terrorist groups. InfoCom's vice president of marketing, Ghassan Elashi, is also the chairman of the Holy Land Foundation. [Source: The Guardian, Sept. 10, 2001, http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,549590,00.html]
49. Sept. 7, 2001 - Florida Governor Jeb Bush signs a two-year emergency executive order (01-261) making new provisions for the Florida National Guard to assist law enforcement and emergency-management personnel in the event of large civil disturbances, disaster or acts of terrorism. [Source: State of Florida website listing of Governor's executive orders]
50. Sept. 6-7, 2001 - Put options (a speculation that the stock will go down) totaling 4,744 are purchased on United Air Lines stock, as opposed to only 396 call options (speculation that the stock will go up). This is a dramatic and abnormal increase in sales of put options. Many of the United puts are purchased through Deutschebank/A.B. Brown, a firm managed until 1998 by the current executive director of the CIA, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard. [Source: The Herzliyya International Policy Institute for Counterterrorism (ICT), http://www.ict.org.il/, Sept. 21, 2001 (Note:The ICT article on possible terrorist insider trading appeared eight days *after* the 9/11 attacks.); The New York Times; The Wall Street Journal; The San Francisco Chronicle, Sept. 29, 2001]
51. Sept. 10, 2001 - Put options totaling 4,516 are purchased on American Airlines as compared to 748 call options. [Source: Herzliyya Institute - above]
52. Sept. 6-11, 2001 - No other airlines show any similar trading patterns to those experienced by United and American. The put option purchases on both airlines were 600 percent above normal. This at a time when Reuters (Sept. 10) issues a business report stating, "Airline stocks may be poised to take off."
53. Sept. 6-10, 2001 - Highly abnormal levels of put options are purchased in Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re(insurance) which owns 25 percent of American Airlines, and Munich Re. All of these companies are directly impacted by the Sept. 11 attacks. [Source: ICT, above;
FTW, Oct. 18, 2001, http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/oct152001.html]
54. 2001-2002 - It has been documented that the CIA, the Israeli Mossad, and many other intelligence agencies monitor stock trading in real time using highly advanced programs reported to be descended from Promis software. This is to alert national intelligence services of just such kinds of attacks. Promis was reported as recently as June 2001 to be in Osama bin Laden's possession and, as a result of recent stories by Fox, both the FBI and the Justice Department have confirmed its use for U.S. intelligence gathering through at least summer 2002. This would confirm that CIA had additional advance warning of imminent attacks. [Sources: The Washington Times, June 15, 2001; Fox, Oct. 16, 2001;
FTW, Oct. 26, 2001, - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/11_19_01_magic_carpet.html
FTW, Vol. IV, No. 6, Sept. 18, 2001 - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/sept1801.html;
FTW, Vol. III, No. 7, Sept. 30, 2000 - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/052401_promis.html]
55. Sept. 9, 2001 - President George W. Bush is presented with detailed war plans to overthrow Al Qaeda, according to U.S. and foreign sources speaking to NBC News. [Source: MSNBC, May 16, 2002. Thanks to Prof. Peter Dale Scott]
56. Sept. 10, 2001 - This item has been removed solely at the request of the party previously named in this entry. Recent court proceedings – which occurred after the news story we had cited - have indicated that there was no connection between the story listed here, the person named therein and the attacks of 9-11-01. At the request of the previously named party, FTW has replaced the $1,000 reward with a $1,000 donation to The Childrens Defense Fund on behalf of the named party and the issue is now amicably resolved without any hard feelings between that party and FTW.
57. Sept. 10, 2001 - According to Newsweek, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly cancelled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns. [Source: Newsweek, Sept. 24, 2001]
58. Sept. 10, 2001 - The Houston Chronicle reports the FBI was notified of a fifth grader from a Dallas suburb who told his teacher, "Tomorrow, World War III will begin. It will begin in the United States, and the United States will lose." The Chronicle was unclear on specifically when Garland, Texas school district officials told the FBI about the incident, but it was some time between Sept. 13, 2001 and the story's publication date of Sept. 19, 2001. [Source: Houston Chronicle, Sept. 19, 2001 http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/metropolitan/1055222]
59. Sept. 10, 2001 - San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown receives a call from what he described as "his security people at the airport" eight hours before the terrorist attacks "advising him that Americans should be cautious about their air travel," as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle. Brown was scheduled to fly to New York from San Francisco International Airport. He told the Chronicle the call "didn't come in any alarming fashion, which is why I'm hesitant to make any alarming statement." [Source: San Francisco Chronicle, Sept. 12, 2001, http://www.sfgate.com/today/0912_chron_mnreport.shtml]
60. Sept. 11, 2001 - The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), the federal agency that runs many of the nation's spy satellites, schedules an exercise involving a plane crashing into one of the agency's buildings. "On the morning of Sept. 11, 2001," according to a website advertising a homeland security conference in Chicago run by the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute, CIA official John Fulton and his team "were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way." Fulton is the head of the NRO's strategic gaming division. [Source: National Law Enforcement and Security Institute, http://www.nlsi.net, http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020821/ap_wo_en_ge/us_sept_11_plane_exercise_1]
61. Sept. 11, 2001 - After the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon occur, National Public Radio's congressional correspondent David Welna reports, "I spoke with congressman Ike Skelton, a Democrat from Missouri and a member of the Armed Services Committee, who said that just recently the director of the CIA warned that there could be an attack -- an imminent attack - on the United States of this nature. So this is not entirely unexpected." [Source: http://www.thememoryhole.org/updates.htm]
62. Sept. 11, 2001 - United Air Lines flight 23, scheduled to fly from New York City to Los Angeles was delayed after four Muslim passengers began demanding that the plane take off immediately. This happened apparently after the first plane had hit the WTC. The passengers were thrown off the flight. [Source: The Globe and Mail, June 13, 2002]
63. Sept. 11, 2001 - Gen. Mahmud of the ISI (see #16), friend of Mohammed Atta, is visiting Washington on behalf of the Taliban. He is meeting with the Chairmen of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, Rep. Porter Goss, R-Fla., and Sen. Bob Graham, D-Fla., [Source: MSNBC, Oct. 7, 2001; The New York Times, Feb. 17, 2002]
64. Sept. 11, 2001 - Employees of Odigo, Inc. in Israel, one of the world's largest instant messaging companies with offices in New York, receive threat warnings of an imminent attack on the WTC less than two hours before the first plane hits. Law enforcement authorities have gone silent about any investigation of this. The Odigo research and development offices in Israel are located in the city of Herzliyya, a ritzy suburb of Tel Aviv that is the same location as the Institute for Counter Terrorism, which eight days later reports details of insider trading on 9-11. [Source: CNN's Daniel Sieberg, Sept. 28, 2001; MSNBC Newsbytes, Brian McWilliams, Sept. 27, 2001; Ha'aretz, Sept. 26, 2001]
65. Sept. 11, 2001 - For 50 minutes, from 8:15 AM until 9:05 AM, with it widely known within the FAA and the military that four planes have been simultaneously hijacked and taken off course, no one notifies the President of the United States. It is not until 9:30 that any Air Force planes are scrambled to intercept, but by then it is too late. This means that the National Command Authority waited for 75 minutes before scrambling aircraft, even though it was known that four simultaneous hijackings had occurred. [Source: CNN; ABC; MSNBC; Los Angeles Times; The New York Times; www.tenc.net]
66. Sept. 11-12, 2001 - Nearly a month before the first reported outbreak, White House officials start taking the powerful antibiotic Cipro to treat anthrax. By the end of the year it will be known that the Ames strain of anthrax used in the attacks against Sens. Leahy and Daschle was produced by CIA programs coordinated through Fort Detrick, the Batelle Memorial Institute and the Dugway Proving Ground. [Source: NBC; CNN; www.tetrahedron.org, www.judicialwatch.org]
67. Sept. 13, 2001 - China is admitted to the World Trade Organization quickly, after years of unsuccessful attempts. [Source: The New York Times, Sept. 30, 2001]
68. Sept. 14, 2001 - Canadian jailers open the sealed envelope from Mike Vreeland in Toronto and see that is describes attacks against the WTC and Pentagon. The U.S. Navy subsequently states that Vreeland was discharged as a seaman in 1986 for unsatisfactory performance and has never worked in intelligence. [Source: The Toronto Star, Oct. 23, 2001; Toronto Superior Court records]
69. Sept. 15, 2001 - The New York Times reports that Mayo Shattuck III has resigned, effective immediately, as head of the Alex Brown (A.B.) unit of Deutschebank.
70. Sept. 29, 2001 - The San Francisco Chronicle reports that $2.5 million in put options on American and United airlines are unclaimed. This is likely the result of the suspension in trading on the New York Stock Exchange after the attacks, which gave the Securities and Exchange Commission time to be waiting when the owners showed up to redeem their put options.
71. Oct. 10, 2001 - The Pakistani newspaper The Frontier Post reports that U.S. Ambassador Wendy Chamberlain has paid a call on the Pakistani oil minister. A previously abandoned Unocal gas pipeline project from Turkmenistan, across Afghanistan, to Pakistan is now back on the table "in view of recent geopolitical developments."
72. Oct. 11, 2001 - The Ashcroft Justice Department takes over all terrorist prosecutions from the U.S. Attorneys office in New York, which has had a highly successful track record in prosecuting terrorist cases connected to Osama bin Laden. [Source: The New York Times, Oct. 11, 2001]
73. mid-October 2001 - The Dow Jones Industrial Average, after having suffered a precipitous drop has recovered most of its pre-attack losses. Although still weak and vulnerable to negative earnings reports, a crash has been averted by a massive infusion of government spending on defense programs, subsidies for "affected" industries and planned tax cuts for corporations.
74. Oct. 29, 2001 - The Bush Administration drafts "an executive order that would usher in a new era of secrecy for presidential records and allow an incumbent president to withhold a former president's papers even if the former president wanted to make them public," wrote the Washington Post. The order also required members of the public to prove "at least a Ôdemonstrated, specific need'" for a president's papers to be released. Critics contend this would overturn the 1978 Presidential Records Act, which releases documents after 12 years. The White House maintained that a Supreme Court decision in 1977 allows presidents various privileges for their records. [Source: Washington Post, Nov. 1, 2001, http://washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A20731-2001Oct31?language=printer]
75. Nov. 21, 2001 - The British paper The Independent runs a story headlined, "Opium Farmers Rejoice at the Defeat of the Taliban." The story reports that massive opium planting is underway all over the country.
76. Nov. 25, 2001 - The Observer runs a story headlined "Victorious Warlords Set To Open the Opium Floodgates." It states that farmers are being encouraged by warlords allied with the victorious Americans are "being encouraged to plant as much opium as possible."
77. Dec. 4, 2001 - Convicted drug lord and opium kingpin Ayub Afridi is recruited by the U.S. government to help establish control in Afghanistan by unifying various Pashtun warlords. The former opium smuggler who was one of the CIA's leading assets in the war against the Russians is released from prison in order to do this. [Source: The Asia Times Online, Dec. 4, 2001]
78. Dec. 25, 2001 - Newly appointed Afghani Prime Minister Hamid Karzai is revealed as being a former paid consultant for Unocal. [Source: Le Monde]
79. Jan. 3, 2002 - President Bush appoints Zalmy Khalilzad as a special envoy to Afghanistan. Khalilzad, a former employee of Unocal, also wrote op-eds in the Washington Post in 1997 supporting the Taliban regime. [Source: Pravda, Jan. 9, 2002]
80. Jan. 4, 2002 - Florida drug trafficking explodes after 9-11. In a surge of trafficking reminiscent of the 1980s the diversion of resources away from drug enforcement has opened the floodgates for a new surge of cocaine and heroin from South America. [The Christian Science Monitor, Jan. 4, 2002]
81. Jan. 10, 2002 - In a call from a speaker phone in open court, attorneys for Mike Vreeland call the Pentagon's switchboard operator, who confirms that Vreeland is indeed a naval lieutenant on active duty. She provides an office number and a direct dial phone extension to his office in the Pentagon. [Source: Attorney Rocco Galati; Toronto Superior Court records]
82. Jan. 10, 2002 - Attorney General John Ashcroft recuses himself from the Enron investigation because Enron had been a major campaign donor in his 2000 Senate race. He fails to recuse himself from involvement in two sitting federal grand juries investigating bribery and corruption charges against ExxonMobil and BP Amoco, which have massive oil interests in Central Asia. Both were major Ashcroft donors in 2000. [Source: CNN, Jan. 10, 2002; FTW, "The Elephant in the Living Room, Part I," April 4, 2002,
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/04_04_02_elephant.html]
83. Jan. 23, 2002 - Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl is kidnapped in Pakistan. Pearl is reported dead on Feb. 21. Lead suspect Ahmad Umar Sheik, former colleague of Gen. Ahmad, is arrested on Feb. 12 and named as the lead suspect in the kidnapping and murder. Legal sources close to the Pakistani government tell FTW that Pearl was investigating the ISI. [Source: CNN.com]
84. Feb. 9, 2002 - Pakistani leader Gen. Musharraf and Afghan leader Hamid Karzai announce their agreement to "cooperate in all spheres of activity," including the proposed Central Asian pipeline. Pakistan will give $10 million to Afghanistan to help pay Afghan government workers. [Source: The Irish Times, Feb. 9, 2002]
85. Feb. 18, 2002 - The Financial Times reports that the estimated opium harvest in Afghanistan in the late-spring 2002 will reach a world record 4,500 metric tons.
86. mid-April, 2002 - World Bank chief James Wolfensohn, at the opening of the World Bank's offices in Kabul, states he has held talks about financing the Trans-Afghanistan gas pipeline. He confirms $100 million in new grants for the interim Afghani government. Wolfensohn also states that a number of companies have already expressed interest in the project. [Source: Alexander's Gas and oil Connections, citing an Agence France-Presse story]
87. May 13, 2002 - The BBC reports that Afghanistan is about to close a deal for construction of the $2 billion gas pipeline to run from Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India. The story states, "work on the project will start after an agreement is expected to be struck" at a summit scheduled for the end of the month. Unocal will build the pipeline. [Source: BBC, May 13, 2002]
88. May 2002 - A number of sources report progress on both oil and gas pipelines. Regional sources state that Unocal will re-emerge as a pipeline contender after withdrawing from the CentGas pipeline project in 1998. Unocal denies plans to revive the gas pipeline but curiously neglects to mention whether or not it has any interest in the oil pipeline, which local sources say is moving ahead. [Source: The Dawn Group of Newspapers, May 7, May 17, May 22, 2002]
89. May 30, 2002 - Afghanistan's interim leader, Hamid Karzai, Turkmenistan's President Niyazov, and Pakistani President Musharraf meet in Islamabad to sign a memorandum of understanding on the trans-Afghanistan gas pipeline project. The three leaders will meet for more talks on the project in October. The Turkmen-Afghan-Pakistani gas pipeline accord has been published and can be viewed at the following website: http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/nts22622.htm. [Source: NewsBase, June 5, 2002]
90. May 16, 2002 - White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer states unequivocally that while President Bush had been warned of possible hijackings, "The president did not -- not -- receive information about the use of airplanes as missiles by suicide bombers." [Source: CBS News, May 15, 2002]
91. May 19, 2002 - Former FBI Agent Tyrone Powers, now a professor at Anne Arundel Community College states on radio station KISS 98.7 that he has credible evidence suggesting that the Bush Administration did in fact allow the Sept. 11 attacks to further a hidden agenda. [Source: http://www.indymedia.org - May 20, 2002]
92. May 31, 2002 - FBI Agent Robert Wright delivers a tearful press conference at the National Press Club describing his lawsuit against the FBI for deliberately curtailing investigations that might have prevented the 9-11 attacks. He uses words like "prevented," "thwarted," "obstructed," "threatened," "intimidated," and "retaliation" to describe the actions of his superiors in blocking his attempts to shut off money flows to Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. These are not words of negligence. They are words describing deliberate and malicious actions. [Source: C-SPAN website]
93. June 4, 2002 - Air Force Lt. Col. Steve Butler, who had called President Bush a joke and accused him of allowing the Sept. 11 attacks to happen, is suspended from his post at the Defense Language School in Monterey, Calif. and could face a court martial. [Source: Associated Press, June 4, 2002]
94. June 14, 2002 - Common Dreams website publishes an account from a former member of the 1/118th Infantry Battalion of the South Carolina National Guard: "My unit reported for drill in July 2001 and we were suddenly and unexpectedly informed that all activities planned for the next two months would be suspended in order to prepare for a mobilization exercise to be held on Sept. 14, 2001. We worked diligently for two weekends and even came in on an unscheduled day in August to prepare for the exercise. By the end of August all we needed was a phone call, which we were to expect, and we could hop into a fully prepared convoy with our bags and equipment packed." [Source: Common Dreams, http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0614-02.htm]
95. June 17, 2002 - Reuters reports that Butler's case has been resolved without the necessity of a court martial. (I guess so. There's enough material here to prove him right. -- MCR) [Reuters, June 17, 2002]
96. July 2, 2002 - Motions from Zacarias Moussaoui are unsealed in federal court, indicating that Moussaoui wants to testify before both a grand jury and Congress about the Sept. 11 attacks. Moussaoui claims to have information showing that the U.S. government wanted the attacks to happen. [Source: The Washington Post, July 3, 2002]
97. July 3, 2002 - The first-ever shipment of Russian oil, 200,000 metric tons, arrives in Houston. [Source: The Moscow Times, July 6, 2002].
98. July 6, 2002 - Afghan Vice President Hajji Abdul Qadir is assassinated by Afghan warlords. The New York Times reports that Qadir may have been assassinated by opium warlords upset by Qadir's efforts to reduce the rampant opium farming and processing that has taken place since the U.S. occupation. Qadir had been overseeing a Western-backed eradication program, according to the Times. However, the opium warlords of the region are same ones sponsored, protected, and in some cases released from prison by the CIA and who have been protected by President Bush's special envoy, Zalmay Khalilzad. It is reported that the raw opium is being refined near U.S. bases at Kandahar. [Sources: The New York Times, July 8, 2002; Far Eastern Economic Review, April 18, 2002]
99. July 26, 2002 - White House security prevented the legal watch-group Judicial Watch from serving Vice President Cheney with a lawsuit filed on behalf of Halliburton shareholders. Before becoming vice president Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, which has filed for bankruptcy. [Source: Cybercast News Service, cnsnews.com]
100. Aug. 2, 2002 - The FBI asked members of the House and Senate intelligence committees to take lie-detector tests as investigators try to determine who leaked information to CNN about communications in Arabic that made vague references to an impending attack on the United States. The communications were intercepted by the National Security Agency on Sept. 10 but weren't translated until Sept. 12. [Source: Associated Press story published in the Boston Globe, Aug. 2, 2002, http://www.truthout.org/docs_02/08.03A.fbi.lie.det.p.htm]
101. Aug. 5, 2002 - The Associated Press reported Russia's major role over the last five years in the trafficking of Afghan heroin into Europe. [Source: Santa Fe New Mexican, Aug. 5, 2002, www.sfnewmexican.com]
102. Aug. 16, 2002 - A Knight Ridder story discloses that members of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's staff have created a special planning unit for an invasion of Iraq. The unit is composed primarily of civilians and was spearheaded by conservative members of Rumsfeld's staff, such as Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. The story was headlined, "White House Methodically Preparing for Iraq Campaign." [Source: Knight Ridder Newspapers, www.truthout.org/docs 02/08.17B.wh.prep.irq.p.htm]
103. Aug. 28, 2002 - The Globe and Mail of Canada reports Afghanistan will become the world's top producer of opium this year, surpassing Southeast Asia. [Source: the Globe and Mail, Aug. 28, 2002]
Now, let's go back to the Oct. 31 story by Le Figaro -- the one that has Osama bin Laden meeting with a CIA officer in Dubai in July 2001.
The story says, "Throughout his stay in the hospital, Osama Bin Laden received visits from many family members [There goes the story that he's a black sheep! --MCR] and Saudi Arabian Emirate personalities of status. During this time the local representative of the CIA was seen by many people taking the elevator and going to bin Laden's room.
"Several days later the CIA officer bragged to his friends about having visited the Saudi millionaire. From authoritative sources, this CIA agent visited CIA headquarters on July 15, the day after bin Laden's departure for Quetta.
"According to various Arab diplomatic sources and French intelligence itself, precise information was communicated to the CIA concerning terrorist attacks aimed at American interests in the world, including its own territory.
"Extremely bothered, they [American intelligence officers in a meeting with French intelligence officers] requested from their French peers exact details about the Algerian activists [connected to bin Laden through Dubai banking institutions], without explaining the exact nature of their inquiry. When asked the question, What do you fear in the coming days?' the Americans responded with incomprehensible silence.
"On further investigation, the FBI discovered certain plans that had been put together between the CIA and its 'Islamic friends' over the years. The meeting in Dubai is, so it would seem, consistent with 'a certain American policy.'"
Even though Le Figaro reported that it had confirmed with hospital staff that bin Laden had been there as reported, stories printed on Nov. 1 contained quotes from hospital staff that these reports were untrue. On Nov. 1, as reported by the Ananova press agency, the CIA flatly denied that any meeting between any CIA personnel and Osama bin Laden at any time.
Who do you believe?
WATCH THIS PAGE FOR CONTINUING ADDITIONS TO THIS TIMELINE
By Ben on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:03 am: Edit |
Jamesbr1961,
Please give me the names of the people that knew about 9/11 so I can turn them in to our government. Give me the names and proof to back it up.
I agree that there were several people that suspected something was going on, but have never heard of anyone in our intelligence community that knew the date and time of attack or could say it was 100% going to happen.
You are so full of shit it is laughable.
"Many within the US intelligence community were aware that 9/11 was about to happen, and were suppressed by others that wanted it to happen, the evidence of this is immense
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:17 am: Edit |
Ben see above
By Ben on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:20 am: Edit |
Jamesbr1961,
Sorry about not reading this before, but I just got back from my morning run where I ran into both Bruce Lee and Elvis Presley.
By Luckyjackson on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:21 am: Edit |
James, I hate you for making me agree with Ben again. ;)
By Ben on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:24 am: Edit |
LJ
Besos
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:36 am: Edit |
Jackoff,
You totally miss the point. Here is what you wrote:
"If your view were correct, i.e. peace protests encourage Iraq to torture and murder coalition soldiers in order to prolong the war, then it follows that Bush and Blair would play down those incidents. The reverse is true. Every time they come on T.V. both these leaders EMPHASIZE Iraqi atrocities."
Here is why you are wrong:
1. Peace protests embolden the Iraqis.
2. The Iraqis MISTAKENLY believe that the protests mean our collective resolve is weak, and therefore televise scenes of our prisoners being tortured.
3. The fact that our Prez points out the torture does NOT support your position that the protests do not encourage Iraqis to torture our prisoners.
The Iraqis are simply miscalculating - but their miscalculation is encouraged by the traitorous (yet legal and constitutionally protected) wartime protests.
Get it? I understood exactly what you wrote, and was simply pointing out why you were wrong. I did miscalculate the depth of your stupidity, though, which is why I followed up with an even more detailed breakdown of where your attempt at logic falls apart.
James, you are even dumber than Jackoff. Be careful, man, I'm sure the feds are headed for your door, since you are now publicizing their conspiracy!
(Message edited by kendricks on March 27, 2003)
By Milkchops on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:58 am: Edit |
Kendricks is back and your gonna be in trouble
la-la-la-la-la
Who took off kendricks muzzle ?
thanks it refreshing to see him back in form.
nobody goes to a pg-13 film that was originally a nr-17 film
I want Kendricks uncut
Milkman
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 11:25 am: Edit |
Ben
Ok then what information in the above post do you think is not true. I would suggest checking out the sources. Or is the idea of pre knowledge just too unbelievable so you discount it out of hand without looking at the evidence above.
To answer your question specifically
1. the superiors in the FBI that stopped Colleen Rowley from taking specific evidence of the coming attacks including the persons about to do the attacks, when they would do them, how they would do them, and on what airliners they would be using, to report to the President.
2. the current executive director of the CIA, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard, notice the source of this report is the Wall Street Journal, purchased put options on AA, UA, and their insurers just one day before the attacks.
3. The CIA in Pakistan is the ISI, summer 2001 (est.) - Pakistani ISI Chief Gen. Ahmad (see above) orders an aide to wire transfer $100,000 to Mohammed Atta who was, according to the FBI, the lead terrorist in the suicide hijackings. Ahmad recently resigned after the transfer was disclosed in India and confirmed by the FBI. The individual who makes the wire transfer at Ahmad's direction is Ahmad Umar Sheik, the lead suspect in the kidnapping and murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. [Source: The Times of India, Oct.11, 2001.]
4. The executive branch USA, January 2001 - The Bush Administration orders the FBI and intelligence agencies to "back off" investigations involving the bin Laden family, including two of Osama bin Laden's relatives (Abdullah and Omar) who were living in Falls Church, Va. -- right next to CIA headquarters. This followed previous orders dating back to 1996 that frustrated efforts to investigate the bin Laden family. [Source: BBC Newsnight, Correspondent Gregg Palast, Nov. 7, 2001]
Other than that, perhaps not really many smoking guns so to speak, but there are indeed many converging coincedeces here that are indeed very strange.
I am not saying that this is all true or that this proves pre knowledge, but that the evidence is quite immese in my opinion. Just because the idea is against what we want to hear does not mean it might or might not be accurate.
Thinking a little outside the box some of we would say here but check it out for yourself.
And as for the motive of such a truth, well that could be another discussion.
Like I said before I believe this to be the mother of all conspiracy theories, believe what you want, keep your head in the sand if you want, but what you believe will not change whether or not anything that I have pasted above is true or not true. As for me I am not sure what to believe, but I will say that there seems to be something that really stink with regard to our itelligance services before and after 9/11.
If for nothing else if one person here looks at some of the evidence that is out there, perhaps you might at the very least find it entertaining.
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 11:31 am: Edit |
At least some of the fucking consipracy whackjobs have finally shut the fuck up about the Kennedy assassination.
Got any good Area 51 theories there, jimbo?
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:14 pm: Edit |
Kendricks
LOL yea, that was one hell of a shot, magic bullet was indeed very magic, in fact defied the rules of physics, so what you are saying is that everything that was purported in 1963 as truth you accept, I can see the level of your intelligence is what the problem here is, or your ability to understand and comprehend evidence is somewhat lacking in my opinion. Once again we are back to your training to not go against the grain, to never question authority. I am glad that the founders of our country and the authors of the US constitution had the balls to question authority.
Kendricks, so tell me would you have gone against the grain in 1776, and tried to fight the ruling powers that be, the British, I think not, you simply do and think what you are told to do and think, but alas that is the way many people in this country are, so you are not alone.
By Catocony on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:17 pm: Edit |
Man, Kendricks on a flame warpath and Ahora is nowhere to be found. What is this world coming too?
By Luckyjackson on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:52 pm: Edit |
Kendricks,
I have no reason to come down to your level of childish name calling. The fact your argument does not bear any kind of examination is sweet enough revenge. ;)
Nice try at trying to deflect attention from the fact you misunderstood my post. Sorry I'm not in the mood to let you off the hook. You said,
"First, Bush and Blair are NOT emphasizing the protests.",
As your quote of my words shows, that wasn't what I said. Be man enough to admit you read it wrong.
According to your logic, Iraqis are miscalulating things to the point that they believe the torturing of prisoners will encourage more peace protests. Can't you see what utter nonsense that is? It makes no sense.
Your president is playing up incidents of torture and murder precisely because he knows it will sway more people to his side. If you were right, Bush would not utter a peep about the atrocities.
If the peace protests are having any effect, it will be to encourage the British and American governments to win this war even faster. There goes your argument that protests may prolong the war.
Take a step back, you'll see my version of things tallies much more closely with the facts than yours.
I will grant you one point. I'm sure Iraqis do favour the protests. But any help the protests could have given to Hussein ended one week ago when the first bomb dropped. From that point on, the protesters have been irrelevant to the prosection of the war.
The war will be longer than the American government believed, but the reason has nothing to do with your argument. As your General Wallace said today, Iraqi soldiers are fighting the war in a way Americans did not expect or train for. My worry is not about any trouble America may have conquering Iraq - but about the trouble they'll have holding it if Hussein's adherents are committed to waging a guerrilla war.
By Jarocho on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:59 pm: Edit |
James,
A lot of your arguements are based on conspiracy theories or what MIGHT happen.
Back in 1936 the U.S. had the perfect opportunity to take Hittler down because he wasn't prepare to go to war. They could have save 40 million lives, but they thought they could deal with the problem through diplomacy. In some cases diplomacy works, but in Saddam's case we tried for 12 years and it didn't work. Just how long do you allow someone to take you for a fool? Isn't it fair to learn from our past mistakes?
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 01:06 pm: Edit |
Jackoff, you are a true dumbass. I'll smack down your statements one by one.
1. The reason I wrote "First, Bush and Blair are NOT emphasizing the protests" was because it would be asinine to think that Bush and Blair making comments about the torture of US prisoners supports your argument in any way. The point I was making was simply what I said: that Bush and Blair are NOT emphasizing the protests - a point I made because it was relevant to the topic, yet you had glossed over it. Your inability to understand this point only provides firther evidence of your inability to understand complex issues (as if we needed any more evidence of THAT!)
2. You say "According to your logic, Iraqis are miscalulating things to the point that they believe the torturing of prisoners will encourage more peace protests." That is not my point at all. Follow this really closely:
The peace protests lead the Iraqis to think that our national will is weak, and that if they torture and kill more of our soldiers, we will give up and leave.
Since we will NOT leave without victory, peace protests are just ensuring a longer and bloodier war.
3. You say "the protesters have been irrelevant to the prosection of the war." They have been irrelevant to the US government's determination to win, but the protests have encouraged the Iraqis to fight, instead of capitulate.
If you cannot even understand this basic argument, you are an even bigger dumbass than I previously thought.
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 01:09 pm: Edit |
Jarocho
I think that first of all in 1936 all of America was strongly opposed to any war no matter what was beginnig to show up on the horizon, ie. Hitler. But Iraq's military is nothing compared to Hitler's, so there is little comparison there. Besides many US companies were profiting from building the Nazi war machine, including Henry Ford and a bank by the name of Brown Brothers Heriman who's assets were siezed and many in this company were indicted for the trading with the enemy act. Oh and by the way the CEO of this company was a man by the name of Prescott Bush of Main, George W's grandfather,, LOL
By Luckyjackson on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 01:32 pm: Edit |
Kendricks,
If you were right, neither Bush or Blair would be saying anything about the tortures and murders. The fact they are talking them up supports my argument - which is that they realize these atrocities will win support for the war at home. You've said I'm wrong about this, so tell us what YOU think their reasons are for talking about these incidents.
This statement of yours,
"The peace protests lead the Iraqis to think that our national will is weak, and that if they torture and kill more of our soldiers, we will give up and leave",
is ridiculous. You really believe that?
You don't think it MUCH more likely that it is in the interest of Bush and Blair to press harder than ever to get a quick end to the war?
Your entire argument is based on the assumption that peace protests = harder fighting by Iraqis. Nothing suggests that is true. Peace protests may have delayed the start of the war, but once it started they became irrelevant.
By Jamesbr1961 on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 01:34 pm: Edit |
Jarocho
Further documentation on this subject here as follows
Prescott Bush
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Prescott Bush Sr. (May 15, 1895 - 1972) was a Connecticut Senator and partriarch of the Bush family in America. His son, George H.W. Bush, and grandson George W. Bush would both later become US Presidents.
Born in Columbus, Ohio, Prescott attended Yale University and served as an Artillery Captain in World War I. He entered business in the organization of George Herbert Walker and Averell Harriman and became an officer in Harriman Bank (later Brown Brothers-Harriman) in 1926.
When Adolf Hitler's financiers, the Thyssen family, formed a joint venture, Union Banking Corporation to manage Thyssen family investments in America, they needed an up-and-coming youngster to run the new firm, and Prescott Bush was made Managing Director. The later congressional report described Union Bank as an "interlocking trust" with the German Steel Trust responsible for supplying the German Military. Union Bank was also involved in raising funds from German-sympathizing Americans, and brokered the illegal transfer of aviation fuel technology that made the Luftwaffe possible. The coordination between Union Bank and the German Steel trust was so tight that Prescott spent some time in Europe in the late 1930s overseeing the mining operations in Poland which used slave labor out of Oświęcim. A July 1942 New York Tribune front page article about Prescott's bank headlined "Hitler's Angel has 3 million in US bank"; ("Hitler's Angel" being Fritz Thyssen) prompted the congressional investigation which closed Union Banking Corp, but caused only a brief dip in Prescott's personal and political fortunes.
Prescott Bush's business interests seized during World War II under the Trading with the Enemy Act included:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
Union Banking Corp. (for Thyssen and Brown Brothers-Harriman)
Holland-American Trading Corporation (with Harriman)
the Seamless Steel Equipment Corporation (with Harriman)
Silesian-American Corporation (with Walker)
External link
Straight Dope column about Prescott Bush's links to Nazi Germany
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/030214.html
By Catocony on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 02:06 pm: Edit |
Well, my views on protesters and protesting are as follows:
1. Having the right to protest is a good thing.
2. Peaceful protest is a good thing.
3. Lying down in the middle of the street or a bridge so that average working joes can't get to work, kids can't get to school and life in general has to come to a halt should be grounds for summary execution on the spot of said people.
4. Protesting about something you know nothing
about, i.e. hobby protesting, is a waste of everyone's time.
I'm coining the phrase hobby protester. Not all protesters fall in to this categor, mind you, but at least here in DC, a lot of the people protesting the war are the same ones who have protested against capitalism, the World Bank, NAFTA, foreign trade, racism, lubricated condoms, the fact that the ink of The Washington Post rubs off on your hands while reading it, meaning that you can't really read the paper and eat breakfast at the same time without consuming newsprint ink, etc etc etc. Basically, anything and everything that has gone down over the past five years or so. Young white kids, too ugly to get laid but with mommy and daddy sitting at home in the suburbs paying their way through school and life, they have nothing else to do but protest.
As I have said many times before, I have not yet had a rational conversation with any of these people. They have never been anywhere; they have never done anything. They read an article about some factory in Vietnam paying workers 25 cents and hour and start howling mad, without even knowing that it's either 25 cents an hour, which is a hell of a lot better than a lot have, or starve. But, in their limited, sheltered existance, they can't see beyond the end of the Volvo they were carted around in before they left for college (or the protest march itself) so they apply the rules and norms of the US to the rest of the world. They are dumb shits.
I'm going downtown tonight, I'm going to find a little protest rally and try my dambest to stick one of these ugly-girl protesters right in her ass. If I'm really angry I won't use any lube either.
By Kendricks on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 02:09 pm: Edit |
Jackoff, you just don't get it. Here is what you said:
"If you were right, neither Bush or Blair would be saying anything about the tortures and murders. The fact they are talking them up supports my argument - which is that they realize these atrocities will win support for the war at home."
WRONG. Although the Iraqis think that torturing and murdering prisoners will weaken our will, the Iraqis are wrong. Bush and Blair talk frequently about the atrocities committed by the Iraqis, because they know it proves their point about Hussein's regime.
So where did the Iraqis get this mistaken notion from? From watching war protesters on the television, which give them the mistaken idea that US resolve is not strong.