That is an unbelievable sign-photo...where can I get it.

I just got it in an e-mail. I havent looked at the web site listed on the left side yet.

Ben

You never anwered my question, what part of the 100 plus part of evidence are you disputing about CIA fore knowledge, many of these sources are US news papers. OR are you saying that even talking about a subject that sounds disagreeable is simply conspiracy theory. Just wondering.??

Kindricks

I am not sure if you read the post I listed over 100 examples of possible fore knowledge of 9/11, and your remark is what about Elvis and area 51, so are you saying that all of these newspapers many in the US, and news services are all just making all of this up over 18 months. ???

Jaracho

So tell me, do you know the difference between theories and facts. I have outlined quite a few facts, but since it is information with which you are unfamiluar with you use the term conspiracy theory..... Just a cop out

That's it Kendricks, now you're making some progress. Thank you for admitting that Blair and Bush see the value of bringing up the subject of Iraqi atrocities because they shine the light on the nature of Hussein's regime. And why do they want to do that? So that they'll convince people that such a horrible regime which allows such things SHOULD be taken down. You're almost there. I like the way you said I was "WRONG", and then proceeded to restate the point I have been making all along. You're a funny guy.

Now all you have to do is recognize the stupidity of claiming that peace protests could in any way influence the way the military is running the war.

Are you for real? The point you fail to understand is simple:

The peace protesters are traitors because they GIVE THE IRAQIS THE FALSE IMPRESSION THAT WE ARE NOT STRONG, AND LACK THE COLLECTIVE WILL TO SEE A TOUGH CAMPAIGN THROUGH TO THE END. This will result in additional deaths on both sides, as it motivates the Iraqis to fight to the end, instead of capitulating.

I never claimed that the US government has altered its strategy in this war due to peacenik activity. This argument is a figment of your imagination. Nice try at raising a straw man, but that shit ain't gonna fly here.

Do any of you have jobs?

Is it my imagination, or are most of you re-hashing the same points you were making about 3 archives ago?

Arguing that the Iraqi leadership or military would do anything differently based on protests in America seems the stretch of logic to me. The Iraqis are communicating to a world audience, what a minority of people are doing in the US is insignificant. Actually, a completely united American front while there was the same level of world opposition would seem to me to be optimal to the Iraqi leadership, as they could argue that the enemy was the American People. According to poll results I've seen and the articles I've read, people around the world are angry with the administration, not the American people. (of course this doesn't help with those who will not differentiate)

And Iraqi soldiers aren't sitting around cruising the internet to see who's protesting in America. If they are affecting by any news it will be whatever the Iraqi propaganda machine feeds them.

I don't think Iraqis believe that our administration cares much about popular opinion, US or world. I think Iraqis sincerely believe that this war is about control of oil and corporate greed.

What are you doing here, Mr. International-in-Whoring...I thought you moved to Rio. I can't wait to know about what goes through your head the next time you say hi to some girl and the the first thing out of her mouth is "Room?" It's always the best looking girls, too...

Interesting theory, but that is precisely the opposite of what our intelligence officer said when I was in Saudi the first time around.

In the Iraqi mind, a strong leader would never permit opposition within his own country. When they see people taking to the streets in NYC and San Francisco, and when they see high ranking Senators publicly denouncing our war effort, it creates the belief that we could not withstand a long, drawn out, bloody conflict.

As far as the world stage goes, that is utterly irrelevant at this point, since there is no one on the globe with the balls and the firepower to try and stop us.

It still wouldn't matter on the front line, all they would have to do is paste an American flag on photos of Sydney and Berlin photos and there you have an American protest photo to feed to the troops.

Iraqis have never cared for US opinion (and a minority at that) in the first place, why would they start now? They believe we are the devil. That would be like us (or at least our administration) being concerned about what the Arab world thinks when we're dealing with terrorists.

I disagree that the world stage is irrelevant. Look how long small forces have lasted in places like the Palestines and Colombia. A small force doesn't have to "stop" a large force to do an incredible amount of damage to it. In this instance, though, we are looking at a growing force. The entire Middle East thinks we're grabbing for oil, money, and power. Will they sit idly by while we logicially extend our campaign to take out terrorist groups in Iran and other neighboring countries? Or, from how they'll most likely see it, will they sit idly by while we attempt to take over their countries' wealth and resources.

Here's an interesting web site:

http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/

Commentary from someone allegedly inside Bagdad.


As for Kendrick's foaming at the mouth about how we wants to kick the world's butt, and how the immorality of opposing the policy of your leaders, I guess that he would have supported the Nazis during WWII if he were a German, or Stalin during WWII if he were a Soviet.

You know, it doesn't take any cajones to support the Boss.

"Iraqis have never cared for US opinion (and a minority at that) in the first place, why would they start now?"

You fail to understand the Iraqi mind. Their opinions are obviously not influenced by the content of our opinions, but when they see open dissent, it means one thing to them: that our country is divided, and cannot muster the will to endure a long, drawn out battle.

"It still wouldn't matter on the front line, all they would have to do is paste an American flag on photos of Sydney and Berlin photos and there you have an American protest photo to feed to the troops."

It could matter to a lot of other Iraqis, and their commanders and strategists. The protests are doing zero good, and potentially getting American soldiers killed. Therefore, the protesters are disgusting traitors.

"I disagree that the world stage is irrelevant."

Well, you are wrong. Who in the world stage is going to stop our assault? No one. We righteously flipped the bird to the UN, and the UN has done NOTHING to stop us. Watch for the UN to continue to do NOTHING in the future, too. You don't think that France is going to intervene, do you? HA!

Like it or not, the USA will do whatever it takes to win this war, even if traitorous protestors:

1. Waste money spent on police overtime;

2. Waste police time and resources which could be spent on counterterrorism activities; and

3. Strengthen the resolve and determination of our enemies.

You're not going to deny that the police time spent dragging protesters out of the street could be spent more productively, are you?

Wow, now Exploder is comparing the USA to Nazi Germany and the USSR? You truly do not deserve the freedoms this country provides you with.

Explorer

Wow Bravo

"They believe we are the devil."

Well at least the Iraqis have one thing right


Milktuff

Kendricks

The grandfather of our president was put into prison for helping the Nazis after our troops were fighting them, in 1945, dummy, his family at that time were Nazis

Kendricks

The grandfather of our president was put into prison for helping the Nazis after our troops were fighting them, in 1945, dummy, his family at that time were Nazis

Kendricks,

What you see as a 'simple principle' exists only in your mind.

So you have insight into the Iraqi mind huh? That's hilarious.

I'd be the first to admit that Hussein supporters aren't the sharpest lot, but to be dimwitted to the point you describe - to bet the continued existence of their government on the peace protests - is so ridiculous that only you could buy it. This is the same group of people who saw peace protests in 1991 that did nothing to prevent their losing Kuwait.

By your logic, the torture of American soldiers should lead to more protests, which would place more pressure on the government, and force them to lose the resolve needed to fight a prolonged conflict. According to that twisted thinking, America should have become even more anti war following Pearl Harbour. Instead, that attack which was seen as cowardly, unified all Americans and gave them the resolve to fight a long war. Same thing here, but you're too thick to see it.

I repeat for the last time, the facts support my view, not yours.

Kendricks:

>I was in Gulf War I, during my 6 year tour of >duty with the USMC.

...A jarhead, I shoulda known! Open lid, scoop out brain (if there is one to begin with), insert bullshit, screw lid back on... TIGHT

But you're sure right about one thing - the Big Green MuthaFuckin Machine sure does teach you one thing - FUCK AUTHORITY.

Semper Fi and all that good shit...

BS

P.S. This ain't your father's War ;-)

(Message edited by badseed on March 27, 2003)

I still say it's an incredible stretch of logic and simplistic to argue that a minority of the public demonstrating in the US leads to a strengthening of resolve in Iraq and therefore a prolonged war while neglecting to factor any of the following:
1. The Iraqi regime's need to stay in power.
2. Fear among Iraqis to show any sign of disobedience
3. Iraqi's belief that they are being attacked because of oil.
4. A lifetime of propaganda that paints the US as evil.
5. Support from the entire Middle East
6. Sympathy from most of Europe and other parts of the world (public, not government)
etc...

By your logic it would seem that you believe that if there were no protests in America, billions of people would roll over and say, "You win, come take our oil". Aren't we talking about people we suspect are willing to strap bombs to themselves to make simple statements as martyrs? Do you really believe that after a lifetime of poverty and propaganda and fanatic allegiance to Allah, that their conviction is so shallow?

I thought I was pretty clear that I wasn't referring to anyone "stopping" us. At least that's what I wrote. I'm talking about the consequences of this war afterwards, at home and overseas. I'm under the impression that you believe that our lives will be the same as before once Iraq falls and that we have nothing to be concerned about billions of ME'ers that despise us for making an oil grab(their perception, not mine).

I will agree with you that protesters could be doing better things, like getting laid, but I don't consider protest traitorous.

Anyways, who's next? Iran, North Korea, France, or Russia?

well we are sending 100,000 more boots, so the house to house fighting that probably come to pass may just work, but at what cost??

Haliburton's army LOL

And by the way I own an oil and gas company, small one in Texas, information is more important than pussy, LOL sorrry not true

Kendriks

Do you point an M16 at the girls head so you get laid, or is it your fist, LOL, You must be a fat ass, LOL>

yes, fat ass MF

Kendricks,

No I am not comparing the US with Nazi Germany, you misread my post.

Let me try this again: if you had lived in Nazi Germany, would you support your government's war, or would you oppose it?

"I'd be the first to admit that Hussein supporters aren't the sharpest lot, but to be dimwitted to the point you describe - to bet the continued existence of their government on the peace protests - is so ridiculous that only you could buy it."

Simpleton. The peace protests are obviously not the only factor, or even the most important factor. But they do serve to strengthen the Iraqis resolve.

"This is the same group of people who saw peace protests in 1991 that did nothing to prevent their losing Kuwait."

In a swift, bloodless (on our part) campaign. No comparison.

"By your logic, the torture of American soldiers should lead to more protests, which would place more pressure on the government, and force them to lose the resolve needed to fight a prolonged conflict."

Wrong. The Iraqis are miscalculating, as they usually do. Just as you fail to understand them, they fail to understand us.

"I repeat for the last time, the facts support my view, not yours."

Well, you are wrong again, no matter how many times you say it.

As far as "fatass" goes, jimbo, I am actually in great shape, and work out regularly, including weightlifting. If you go to Tijuana, your favorita is probably thinking about me while you are fucking her!

Explorer, the comparison between the USA and Nazi Germany is bogus, and irrelevant to the situation at hand.

James,
Sorry I have a life and just got home, but thanks for the info. Something like learn from your mistakes doesn't make sense to you because it IS NOT the same. So, if a truck ran you over in your killed you in a past life, are you not going to move out of the way because this time is a small beetle car? What's your criteria for going after someone like Saddam who would love to see your ass in flames? BTW, please try not to crush me with your encyclopedia.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Matthew chapter 5 verse 9

Yeah, I know Kendricks that Goddamn peacenik Jesus Christ

Those STDS must really be eating at your brain tissues

Health and Peace,
Lancer

Peacemaking and peacekeeping are two different things. This line totally justifies this war.

Now the Pope can shut his mouth on this issue and go back to hiding child molesters.

Badseed,

I know a few Marines, in fact I have a cousin that retired as a bird Col. from the Marines. He has a masters degree from The U of Texas and certainly isn't stupid.

Another one of my cousins who was a Marine (one day older than me) died in Viet Nam protecting your ass.

I think your insulting of the Marine Corp is in very poor taste to say the least, when these guys are dying for our country as we speak.

Oh, another thing, I saw a couple of Marines at Adelitas yesterday who I would love to see you make those remarks to their face.

(Message edited by ben on March 28, 2003)

Lancer, Jesus Christ can suck my cock. That peacenik faggot is one of the bigest assholes to ever walk the face of the earth. Why should I care about any of the bullshit quotes attributed to him?

Ben, you are right about the Corps. What pussified peacenik faggots will never understand is that guys actually can have brains and balls at the same time. Since the peaceniks typically have neither, this is tough for them to understand.

Our current crop of Marines in the field have a hell of a job to do, and I don't doubt for a minute they are up for it.

Your Marine buddies might enjoy this joke (even though they probably heard it already):

A kid walks into a public bathroom, where he finds a sailor in full uniform.

"Gee, are you a real sailor, mister? Like, you go out and ride on ships and stuff?" asks the boy.

"Yeah, that's right, kid. Why, you want to wear my hat?" asked the sailor, placing his sailor hat on the little boys head.

"Gee thanks mister!" shouted the child.

A moment later, a Marine walked through the door, in his full uniform. The little boy beamed with excitement, and ran over to him.

"Wow, gee, mister, are you a real Marine? Like, you go out and kill people and stuff?"

The Marine looked down at the little boy and scowled. "Yeah, that's right, kid, why? You going to try to suck my cock or something?"

"Oh, hell no!" yelled the boy. "I'm not a real sailor, I'm just wearing his hat!"

Jaracho

"James,
Sorry I have a life and just got home, but thanks for the info. Something like learn from your mistakes doesn't make sense to you because it IS NOT the same. So, if a truck ran you over in your killed you in a past life, are you not going to move out of the way because this time is a small beetle car? What's your criteria for going after someone like Saddam who would love to see your ass in flames? BTW, please try not to crush me with your encyclopedia."

Were you drunk when you wrote this LOL, hope ya got laid at least

Hey Kendricks

I saw several Iraqis talking to A CNN crew in Southern Iraq, they said, "so you kill our children and then you bring us food, this is an insult" since you have such profound insight into the Iraqi mind, is this just bull shit or by giving them food, do we win them over LOL

Kendricks: Ya caught me! I'm a swabbie-pushin' squid. See ya "in the barrel!"

Ben: Chill out, huh? Parris Island's Finest have heard themselves being called Gyrenes and Jarheads since the Revolution. Yeah, they're all heroes and Georgie Boy is giving them yet another opportunity to die for their country. Of course:

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George S Patton

BS

Jaracho

I do not like to repeat myself but once again, Iraq had nothing to do whatso ever with 9/11, so what is your point on this one?? So do we now go after every "evil" country now?? well besides the mid east, that would include 20 or so countries in Africa, and many in the far east, so we need to just light the entire world on fire then, hummmmm sounds like we would be making the world very safe, hell if we killed everyone, then there would be no one else left so we would indeed be safe, ummm sorry this sounds like a good plan indeed, I think Kendricks would agree with this one, hell if we just nuked everyone then we could take care of all future potential threats and relieve the world of quite a bit of suffering, we would be liberating these poor souls to heaven, and we would have quite a bit more real estate.

Kendricks, as long as we're telling jokes:

A sailor in a bar leans over to the guy next to him and says, "Wanna hear a MARINE joke?" The guy next to him says, "Well, before you tell that joke, you need to know something. I'm 6' tall, 200 lbs, and I'm a MARINE. The guy sitting next to me is 6'2", weighs 225, and he's a MARINE. The guy next to him is 6'5", weighs 250, and he's also a MARINE. Now, you still wanna tell that joke?" The sailor says, "Nah, I don't want to have to explain it three times."

;-)

BS

Did you hear about the gay whale that attacked the submarine? He sucked all the seamen out of it!

As far as the ungrateful Iraqis go, I agree that we should stop insulting them, and not give them any more food.

(Message edited by kendricks on March 28, 2003)

Kendricks

agree, the food deal is nothing but bullshit, trying to win the hearts and minds of the people is just not going to work, it didn't in Vietnam and it will not here. I watched an ex general last night that said the same thing, and he went on to say that the only thing that will work is terror, in other words bombing the shit out of them, killing as many people as possible until they say uncle, like in Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki etc. This unfortunatly makes sense,.

The food deal is for the benefit of all the bleeding hearts in this country, who would get all twisted seeing thse little ingrates go without food. If the Iraqis interviewed were that offended at the gesture, they should so the right thing, and decline to eat it.

The general you saw last night had it right. We need to just light motherfuckers up with unfathomable violence.

" We need to just light motherfuckers up with unfathomable violence."



LOL, and world will become a wonderful and peaceful garden of eden, ummm after all the carnage, LOL

Man o Man. Does everyone have their flame suits on? LOL. Before I post, I want to say that it seems a whole lot of people on the board dont realize that wars have political fronts and battlefronts. The anti-war protests are part of the political front. And yes Dartagnan they do have an effect.

Mr canuckson,

I am sorry that your opinion of me has been downgraded. I probably won’t sleep well tonight. LOL. But I still think that Kendrick’s allegation that the anti-war protesters are traitorous has some merit. Let me explain.

My cousin is a UT-Austin Psycology graduate. She is a recently commissioned officer in the USAF. Her specialty is Psy-ops and she is attached to the command staff of an F-16 fighter-bomber wing. Her wing is still stateside and does not expect to get called up. But she obviously hears all the scuttlebutt. I saw her father last weekend and he said she recently made two points.

1. She contends that the fear inside the military is that if Saddam can hold on 6-8 weeks, that he can create enough carnage and get it broadcast he feels he can win the propaganda war. In fact, she contends, he is already winning the propaganda war. He believes if he can get enough people in the United States and Europe against the war and force public opinion completely against it, then he can force a negotiated settlement that leaves him in power. Then he wins.

2. People who violently and actively protest the war by marching with placards that equate Bush and Blair with Hitler and try to make them morally equivalent with Saddam, are indeed “aiding an comforting” the enemy. Indeed many protesters tacitly support Saddam. In San Francisco last week the protesters unfurled a banner that said “We support our soldiers when they SHOOT their officers. Why should that be protected freedom of speech? The protesters are indeed becoming pawns of Saddams propaganda machine. And, Jackson, aiding and comforting the enemy is behavior that borders on traitorous.

However, Lucky, you are correct. Only in the US is it Ok to protest against the government and its officials using tactics that are defamation of character, misrepresentations of the truth etc, public disorder, etc. Not even that great protector of Iraqi democracy, France, allows it. Just a few weeks ago a newspaper was fined up the Kazoo for calling Chirac a worm. How would they like 10,000 people giving shit to the police, damaging property, and marching with Placards stating Chirac was Hitler?

Kendricks never said that people who are against the war are traitors. He said that anti-war protesters are traitors. In a propaganda war being fought on the home front, whom do you think they help? Saddam or the US? I am sure that Saddam sees them just as Stalin saw his supporters in the west “ Useful Idiots”. And don’t just take my word that the anti-war protests help Saddam. Here is a money quote from the China Peoples Daily "But as things stand now, a more extensive anti-war movement plus the unsuccessful action of the US troops in the battlefield will help Saddam” There you have it from the mouths of masters of propaganda. Anti war movement helps Saddam. Who is the real enemy? Bush or Saddam. For jamesbr, and others, it seems to be Bush. They would rather, as the Chinese say, help Saddam.

But hey, we live in a democracy. And guess what guys? For the moment, majority public opinion is still in favor of this war in Iraq. I hope it stays that way long enough to put a stake through Saddam’s heart because, if he is allowed to escape, he will hurt us somewhere down the road. I paraphrase that “Great American Idol” Bill Clinton who said just over a week ago “ the risk that Saddams weapons slip into the hands of the wrong crowd is greater than the risk of inaction”. If Saddam wins we better watch out because, as Clinton also said, “Someday, somehow, I guarantee you he will use his WMD”.

I just hope that if he does, his first attack hits a crowd of anti-war protesters. That would be sweet irony indeed.

Flame away boys, I am going away for the weekend and so I wont have my feelings hurt by all of your unkind commentary until at least Monday. Maybe, by the time I get back, the thread will have died. Ben can again start writing SP reports with gratuitous sex details, Kendricks will have time to write some good porn fiction, Explorer can report on what happened with his non pro TJ girl, and jamesbr can have researcehd another 100 reasons for hating Bush. And maybe I can finally get some work done. LOL

Have a good weekend everyone. Play safe.

You missed my point Batstein

Kendrugs's argument as stated earlier is faulty in logic because anti-war protests may be a factor(debatable in scope), but they are not causal. If there were never protests in the US, would any of the following have changed?
A. A mild initial response by Iraq to lure Americans into overconfidence
B. Iraqi tactics of mixing military with civilians to use the civilians deaths that followed for propaganda
C. Public perceptions everywhere else in the world questioning the truth of the US administration's reasoning for going to war
D. Protests throughout the rest of the world that "encourage/embolden" Iraq
I think these points could more effectively be argued as reasons the war is prolonged, but none of them are causal, either. They are all factors, one of many reasons why a war might last longer.

Your point #1:
Of course! One of the biggest mistakes being made is the assumption that we could have a painless war of the week.

"Kendricks never said that people who are against the war are traitors" is an error of fact. Kendoobie just yesterday afternoon accused JimsBra of being a traitor (and others like him) for committing the crime of posting his reasons for being against the war.

I hope you are going away for the weekend to dickbomb some innocent latina civilians.

Kendricks:

Hehehe, very funny. Too bad you weren't in the Navy, you missed all the real fun. In case you ever change your mind, here's the:

US Navy "Oath of Enlistment"

I, Swabbie, in lieu of going to prison, swear to sign away 4 years of my life to the United States Navy because I want to hang out with Marines without actually having to BE one of them, because I thought the Air Force was too "corporate," and because I thought, "Hey, I like to swim... why not?" I promise to wear clothing what went out of style in 1976 and to have my name stenciled on the butt of every pair of pants I own. I understand that I will be mistaken for the Good Humor man during the summer, and for Waffen SS during the winter. I will strive to use a different language than the rest of the English speaking world, using words like "deck, bulkhead, cover, and head" when I really mean "floor, wall, hat, and toilet." I will take great pride in the fact that all Navy acronyms, rank, and insignia, and everything else for that matter, are completely different from the other services and make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I will muster (whatever that is) at 0700 hrs every morning unless I am buddy-buddy with the Chief, in which case I will show up around 0930 hrs. I vow to hone my coffee cup handling skills to the point that I can stand up in a kayak being tossed around in a typhoon, and still not spill a drop. I consent to being promoted and subsequently busted at least twice per fiscal year. I realize that, once selected for Chief, I am required to submit myself to the sick, and quite possibly illegal, whims of my new-found "colleagues." So help me Neptune.

____________________________________________________Signature
Date:


.......................

As for the present fucking war, everyone can argue untill they're blue in the face, but we're in it now. Godspeed and quick victory for our troops - but it's not going to be easy or cheap (in blood, the only currency that counts). In the meantime, let's all use our brains, voices, and votes to make sure this doesn't happen again.

BS

"Kendrugs's argument as stated earlier is faulty in logic because anti-war protests may be a factor(debatable in scope), but they are not causal."

You are dead fucking wrong. So long as antiwar protests are a factor, to ANY degree, in bolstering Iraqi resistance, those taking part in them, or publicly supporting them, are traitors.

Batster is right. You can privately be against the war, and not be a traitor. You only become a traitor when you publicly become a tool of Saddam's propaganda machine.

If some faggotass peacenik is privately against the war, but keeps his pussified feelings to himself, he is not a traitor. Once he starts helping Saddam, though, he is certainly a traitor, as Batster so eloquently pointed out.

Your position that "protesters may help Saddam to some degree but that is not causal" is pure horseshit. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy during time of war, in any degree, is obviously traitorous. I can't believe some of you guys are actually having a hard time comprehending this simple concept.

Just to clarify (or maybe obfuscate summore)...

Anti-war protests won't bring the troops home any faster - only victory will. But unquestioning acceptance of the shit sandwich of lies that's been foisted off onto the American public won't keep the Bushies from starting the next war, or from drafting our kids. If nothing else, be sure and vote in '04!

As for Kendricks, you're truly beyond reasoning, enjoy your war.

Well, enough outa me, OO

BS


(Message edited by badseed on March 28, 2003)

"In the meantime, let's all use our brains, voices, and votes to make sure this doesn't happen again."

The only way to prevent this from happening again is to nip problems like Saddam in the bud.

Vote Republican, in other words. Everyone else wants to just let these problems fester, until a prez with balls gets into office to deal with them.

Batster,

Jesse Jackson will do anything if it pisses off white people. He won't do anything if it doesn't piss off white people.

The best thing we can do for the POWs is capture Baghdad and Tikrit as soon as possible. Why negotiate with captors when you can kill them?

I would let Jesse Jackson into Baghdad and then "accidentily" drop a couple of 2000-pounders on his hotel. Just like we "accidentily" hit the Chinese during our little interlude in Yugoslavia back in 1999.

Hey, maybe when we're done with Iraq we can polish off Syria.

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning" - too bad we don't use napalm anymore.