Greetins to this board. Tonight I sent this email to a friend who is in need and found myself quite moved at the end of typing. I decided to post this for the benefit of the board and the good thinkers that I believe haunt the recesses of it. I submit this to you for your comment, your perusal, your feedback. Thank you for the time you take to consider it.
-wmax2

Once, about 11 or 12 years ago, I was very ill. I had had my 2nd (of 5) heart attacks and I was only 40 or 41 years old. I had children, young boys, at home, my marriage was unsettled and my life was worthless because my health was critical.

How I despaired, my friend. I sought for hope, a reason to go on, an answer to "why" and so much more...I am sure you can understand. After my surgery, then in October of 1990, I was finally wheeled from ICU to a main cardiac unit room and I had a roommate. He was a man of 72 years, gruff-a farmer all his life. I felt terrible and was in no mood for an old man asking me what I , a young man was doing in this place. I told my son to pull the curtain and I refused to communicate with the old man.

That night, 4 people "coded" on our floor. That means they rushed crash carts into their rooms and shocked them, or treated them for heart failure. During one of the episodes, they failed to close our door and it was a woman across the hall from my roommate and I. We could see her lower part of her body and when they put the paddles on her chest and turned the electricity on, her body leaped off the bed in response. It jumped as they hit her again and again. Finally they gave up and pulled the sheet up, over her nude 80 year old body. I was stunned. I was scared and I do mean it.

My roommate and I began to talk. His name was Gabriel, like the Angel. We shared our fears that night and our indignance at our situations, similar as they were. I cried much of the night through, and shivered in fear and tremblings.

The morning came and our breakfast was served, such as it was for heart patients. We each sat up in bed, draped our legs and feet over the edges of our beds and we found ourselves six feet apart, looking at one another. I asked Gabriel, a farmer, what he did when he had invested his life in a crop. One year of summer fallow, dragging a plow over it, then planting the crop in the second year, fertilizing, watching as it grew, nourishing and hoping. Watching prices as they rise and fall, making contacts to sell the crop, planning on yield and hoping against the mounting costs that the price would outstrap the expenses. Then, before the harvest, perhaps one week, two weeks, as the heads filled as the crop matured and as it ripened, a large dark green and black cloud appeared on the southwest horizon. With two years invested in that crop, that he had watched every morning out his window, as he drove around it and nurtured it, a hailstorme blew on it and left the fruits of his labor on the ground. The plants broken, bent and shredded, he looked at disbelief and discouragement on his prize. What my question was, was 'what do you do Gabriel? What do you do?' This was my life I was describing that I had wept over during the night and was beholding even at that moment there in that hospital room. I was relatively young, in the prime of my mental life, bright, able, but struck down. I was mourning my own loss of life.

Gabriel responded with oatmeal dribbling down his bottom lip, " Well, you just salvage what you can and go on". I felt like those words burned into my soul on that day, Charles. I remember them as words from the mouth of Almighty God into my ears. This 72 year old man, who certainly HAD experience exactly what I had described and had done exactly what he advised....'salvage what you can and go on'. There is really nothing else to do.

So, I had other episodes, many other critical moments. Somehow, I have survived these ten or elevn years and actually they have been more productive than any of those that preceded. I found the courage to leave a horrible marriage, but not until my children were raised and responsible. The youngest was 19 when I finally left five years ago this month. I left, not for another woman, though there have been many since, nor because she had another man, though I do not know if she has. My business life has prospered and I have generated more income in these 11 years, by three or four times that all the 40 preceding years. My attitude has changed, I have changed. I am about "salvaging what I have left and going on."

My experience of life actually did not begin until I finally made that difficult decision to strike out on my own. I have erred along my way sometimes and I have truimphed, too. Overall, I am grateful for the wonderful experiences in which I have been allowed to partake. I envy the successful marrriages I behold around me. I see couples dedicated to one another and am humbled by their dedication. I think I realize that I will not ever have that, as I am spoiled from within about ever allowing myself to be trapped in a committed relationship again. Trapped is a poor word and a poor thought, but I view it from that perspective and I do realize it is a pitiful point of view.

Perhaps, if I am fortunate yet again in my pitiful life, I shall know the joy of true love and the pain of committment in the absense of any other physical reward.

I humbly submit this to you and ask for your thoughtful consideration.

Regards,
-Bill (wmax2)

Bill;
You get me thinking.From all the research I have seen done on aged people,the common thread they seem to repeat over and over again is the ability to let go and move on.This is the key to living a relatively happy long life.
I am close to your age and discovered my freedom a little earlier than you.I was one who went from one long term relationship to another,hopeing that this time would be different, and I would be able to be faithful.It never happened in 25 years of trying.Some of us just take longer to learn our lessons in life.
The one thing I am committed to is not getting into a relationship where I cannot be totally honest with my partner.I do miss some aspects of being in relationship,especially as I get older.Having spoken to a few highly liberted females about the subject,I think it is possible to be in relationship with 2,3,4 females at the same time and getting different needs met by all.This is my long term goal.Perhaps 1 or 2, 20 something's having the kids and a few older women that can meet some of the other needs.Of course,if someone doesn't like women,this isn't an option,seems like there are a few mongers that fit this bill and prefer the company of males,I'm not one of them.And if you don't have the bucks this isn't an option,but if you do the sky is the limit on living your life exactly the way you see fit.Our american western ways are so screwed up it is just beyond belief to me how many people in this country live up to someone elses ideal of what life is about.
I would like to hear from others what life is really like in other countries,Netherlands,Thailand,Phillipines.Costa Rica,etc.Not just the chica reports,as we all know the chicas are great or we would no be living this lifestyle,but rather where one can live a free life.....any thoughts...I am very dissapointed in our country of late,after hearing about this guy in nevada with the five wifes ,getting locked up. These are the kinds of things that make me very concerned about the future of our country.

Bill- all of my patients who had heart problems
not associated with artery plaque closing blood
flow off-have not had any more heart attacks
by taking the herb Hawthorne (1000mg a day) and Coenzyme 10(50 mg a day). Do research on the
internet on your own to see all functions these
two substances offer and be heart healthy for a
long time

Thanks for the report from the heart. It's nice to be reminded now and then that behind all the chica posts there are real men who have lives.

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far ... at least not about myself. I would only admit to being a real MALE who IS alive ... not a real MAN with a life. I need to GET a life. And I'm definitely not a real man.



Seriously, I always check in on the "from the heart" threads. It's my own community-therapy, here on the web. There are times when I have pensive thoughts to share, and people are usually pretty helpful. I've entered into some useful email exchanges because of them. And, since Club Hombre is for mongers and by mongers, you don't end up having to mince words if you meet your correspondees via this website. None of that Politically-Correcting yourself out of any benefit.

BG

Greetings to the board, and thanks to those who responded...and to those who have read and were not moved to respond, thanks for reading and ingesting.

To Swadi: I am shocked at being called aged. We are nearly the same age you said, and I wonder if you feel "aged". Actually, I understand that you were referring to longevity being preceded by a willingness to adapt to life's challenges. Each of us seeks, knocks, looks, listens and yearns-do we not? It seems you are finding your way-in your own way.
In response to your question about culture, my observation is this...in Israel, where I travelled in 1997 I observed that the men and women are friends. I guess I attribute that to them having enemies on all sides who want to see them driven into the sea and thay have but one another for comfort thus the young and the old, the able and the infirm dance in the streets to the ballads of old Israel every Sabbath. It is a sight to behold and it seems to foster a unity among the men and women.
In Costa Rica, it is different. There are so many single women with children. The women are matriarchal and there is trouble between the native tico's and tica's. The men are generally unfaithful, but the women dress so provocatively. It seems to be a tragic struggle to me.There is also much Catholic influence and some of the older families have rigid rules for their young women, so, there is contrast in the culture, so far as I have seen.
In Canada, they are overshadowed by the United States, as are most Western Hemisphere countries in some way or another, and the Canadians are constantly seeking their own identities. But the men and women are very much a melting pot....many, many foreigners occupy Canada's Cities and I wonder if much of their true culture isn't being camoflauged by the onslaught of peoples who seek a better life, but do not qualify to come to the United States, for whatever reason.

To DoctorGood:
How I appreciated your response, your care and obvious concern. Thank you so much.
My problems are plaque related and blood clotting is the problem. THey have me on Plavix and my platelets are so convinced they will never have to join forces and clot again, that they proved it to me during a recent minor injury to my skin on my knee...I bled and bled and the injury was painless so I never realized I was bleeding and my socks were soaked. Then, I bit my cuticle and peeled it off the other day, wow, I had to really take care of that because it wouldn't stop either.
About the enzymes you mentioned, I have seen so many physicians, cardiologists, cardiac surgeons and general surgeons that I am afraid to add to the plethora of prescription coctails I am presently imbibing daily for fear something new to the mix might not set well with the chemistry of it all. I hope you understand.
One more thing, Doctorgood, I have lost about 90 pounds in the past 5 or 6 months and that has seemed to go as far as anything I have yet done for myself proactively speaking. I am tall, but was carrying some extra luggage so I feel better now than I have in 30 years.
Again, thank you for your input.

To tight fit: It takes one to know one, my friend. Doesn't It?

To Book Guy, I am the same way. I have fed here in a way that I have not eaten for many years. I consider the men of this board, many of you, brothers in common pursuits, which seem to be diverse and many in nature and number.

Warmest regards to the board,
-wmax2

"I have fed here in a way that I have not eaten for many years."

Isn't that the truth? It wasn't more than a few years ago when boards like this one simply did not exist.

I have no idea how "real" men in the dark ages learned how to successfully deal with prostitutes. The continual appearance of newbies with their same questions tells me that most guys didn't have a clue about even the most minimal aspects of prostitution. Guys who have traveled a bit outside the US maybe have had a better chance to learn something.

Even more striking than the lack of good prior information is how many men are talking about themselves and others, including women, in ways that our society would deem totally out of character. Compare the degree of openess and sensitivity in many posts with the actions of a typical male in the movies or on TV.

If women in this country believe they have much to fear from prostitution and the men that use such an avenue for release, imagine how troubled they would be if they understood how much depth these men really have. And how so many men over the Internet and slowly in real life are realizing the role they have been forced into throughout their life by women.

One man's freedom may be another women's greatest fear.

Yeeowser!

Well said.
-wmax2

I tend to think in longer historical views, and here's my one point. (It's longwinded. I can't make short points, I'm constitutionally unable. But it is just one point.)

Back before the internet, but AFTER the Victorian era, men were miserably unhappy. We had depth, like you say, and we had emotional needs, like you say, but we had no connections to other men, like you say. But if you look FARTHER back in time, to the eras when women were not so fuggin' manipulative (for lack of a better word) you'll see some interesting things.

First, you'll see stories of men travelling together to distant places. Surely they exchanged information among one another at those times?

Second, you'll see stories of WOMEN corrupting MEN because of the "wanton" sexual desires of the FEMALES. They were acting more in concert with their natural biological desires, rather than merely as control-freaks who clasped their knees together out of a need to get an economic slave.

Third, you'll see stories of wedlock and "commitment" arriving in sanctioned form only long AFTER children have been borne, and the couple has LIVED together for a while.

Now, these stories won't necessarily be the norm, but they'll be much more prevalent than they are today. And they'll be stories of HAPPY, well-balanced people, not some bunch of phreaky strangers out on some island who end up resorting to cannibalism and decapitating one another.

These varieties of stories suggest to me, that the current anti-male state of things isn't a permanent condition in the human experience. That in many ways the gender wars were never so bad, as when you and I were growing up. And that the internet is one strange liberating phenomenon that is tending to swing the pendulum slightly back toward the middle.

So, when you say "back in the dark ages," Tight Fit, I think you didn't realize that you said more than you might have meant. Because I believe you were referring strictly to the times before internet information on prostitution was available; but actually, in the actual Dark Ages, I think information was exchanged in a similar manner. Believe it or not.

Look at it this way. The video screen has been controlling North American assumptions about marriage and bonding for a little over half a century, and only recently has a new variety of video screen arrived to temper somewhat that malicious influence. But before ANY video screens, things were radically different again.

And that's my one point.

My God, Bill, what a work. I mean, not just writing your heart, but surviving your experiences. Until recently, I saw my 35-year old body age beyond my years due to various things, and foresaw that a stress-related heart attack was in the cards. I just want to thank you for your words. Not much else I can say but, "I am salvaging. Oh, and I'm going to Bangkok."

Book Guy:

Not having lived in medievel times, I can neither confirm nor deny your point.

From my limited knowledge of history, most wars have been fought over Race and Religion, the quest for territory, and women.

Men usually did the fighting and dying. We seem to want to perform for our women, yet we wander in our lusts and desires when we secure them.

The way I see it, men usually get along with one another pretty well, until there is an interjection of outside influence...most often a woman, or her affections.

IndySeattle:
Believe me I did not choose my course. But, having lived it, I would not trade it. For the approach I now take is without equal to me for the sake of value.

Thank you for your kind words, and I hope Bang Cock(intentional) is good to you. By the way, did you know that on Paul Harvey's program the other day, they said that the leading cause of Death in Thailand is Aids. No longer heart disease, cancer, war, accident or any other disease, but Aids.

Regards to the board,
-wmax2