There's been a lot of off and on discussion here about the importance of learning to speak at least a little Spanish if you want to maximize your experience when you visit here.

I thought it was time to start a separate thread to discuss this and to share learning strategies, talk about language schools, ask questions and, in particular, to share vocabulary and expressions that may be helpful talking about sex (most of which you won't learn in textbooks or language schools).

I've been living here for about six months and my Spanish is improving but I'm still working on it so I hope those of you who are more fluent than I will participate. (Gitano, are you listening?)

What do you think, guys? If you want to participate in this sort of discussion, fire away with your questions or suggestions.

TG

TampaGringo,

Gracias por el complido, pero temo que mi español sea peor que sugieres. (Thanks for the compliment, but I fear that my Spanish is worse than you are suggesting).

Anyway this is one of my favorite topics and I have worked hard at improving. There are a lot of more knowledgable people on this board, Reytj for an obvious example. I have been at it a year and a half and put in about 3 hours a day on it. My suggestions:

I will ignore the topic of sexual negotiation. I am sure that will receive sufficient documentation without my assistance.

Read some books. Eureka did an excellent job of documenting the best of these back at RedSnake. I copied his research into a a thread at RedSnake under TJ called "Books for Learning Spanish".

Take some JC courses. If you want to go beyond me and my girl bar talk, you need some more formal education. The girls will talk Gringo pidgeon Spanish with you unless you can demonstrate more. I get a big kick out of a girl jumping back a foot because she is surprised at my Spanish being better than expected.

Buy some cassettes to play in the car. There are several aspects to learning a language and listening skills can be difficult to develop. This has been my biggest problem.

Get a fav. My Spanish improved 300% in one month. Now if I could only make that rr sound. I'll put up more info if people are interested. I have a lot of links and recommended materials. Don't have time right now. I am leaving for Central America, no not CR.

Gitano

Gitano's suggestions are right on. I made the investment and bought Pimsleur Language CD's. You can buy then direct from Pimsleur and they will negociate on price. You can come close to 50% off list price. Ph is 800 831-5497. I have had good luck with David at x-206. I went the CD route because they will last forever and have a good resale value.

But the CD's are not enough as it is only listening and repeating. You never see a word or how it is spelled. I read "Madrigal's Magic Key to Spanish" twice. Once while going through Pimsleur Spanish 1 and again while going through Spanish 2. Excellent book. Another good book to read in Spanish 2 is "Breaking Out of Beginning Spanish" by Keenan. Both books are available through Amazon for $10-$15 each.

Doing one Pimsleur lession a day while driving and 1/2 hour reading at night, most people can make good progress in 4-6 months.

And having a favorita is definitely a motivator and an excellent additional learning source. Plus, it is a lot of fun.

Additioinally, there are many free internet resources. Just one is a free Spanish lesson every day at http://language.msn.com/main.asp

Want to know the best way to learn Spanish? Live in a Spanish speaking country in a situation where you are forced to use it. Total immersion.

The easiest part of the language is speaking it. It's a lot harder to understand it when you are talking with someone. Harder yet is when you walk into an ongoing conversation. Figuring out what the guy on the radio is saying is the next step. And understanding what some chica in AB is saying to you with the music at its ear splitting level is maybe the hardest thing of all.

OK - here's my take on the subject.

Try everything! Some approaches work better for others. ¡Si deseas, puedas! If you want to, you can!

Here's my route to arrive at a fairly good level of ability.

I started by wanting to enhance my experience south of the border. I bought phrase books and dictionaries - I took junior college courses - I still look over the books available, and buy new ones for new ideas. "Breaking Out of Beginning Spanish" is superb. I still re-read it and learn more!

I got a great electronic dictionary (Seiko SII O* - Berlitz, Advanced Verb Translation model TR-2720) Carry it everywhere! use it fathfully. It will be a great kick when you don't need it anymore, or when you discover mistakes in it!

I told my first favorita that I wanted her to correct me when I screwed-up. I re-told her! I made sure she knew that I wanted to learn her launguage. I got her telephone number and called her. It is a lot tougher talking on the phone than you would think. I put all my pushbuttons on my car radio to spanish stations, I watch spanish TV, subscribe and read spanish newspapers! ¡Plactica! Talk! I forced myself to carry-on a conversation in spanish. I visited other locations in mexico, not just the zone.

If you can, move to a spanish speaking country for an extended period of time! Like forever! After I did this, I was amazed at how fast I improved! If you can't make the move, take an imersion course, or seven. Vacation in spanish speaking countries where you are forced to use you new language! You are already much more fluent than you may think, because there are so many common words in both english and spanish!

Interact with as many people as possible. If you are forced to live in the north, find and make friends of residents who have no english! Make sure he/she/they know that you want to learn spanish. For those of us close to mexico, forget the vosotros form and avoid the castillion versions. Except for Costa Rica, they aren't needed here in the americas!

You already use the net, so use it to improve your spanish! There are/is a huge portion of the net in spanish only. Use any search engine and go from there!

Be extra polite in your new language. Avoid being the ugly american! Don't ignore the polite forms! Go to other bars other than AB and CC if in TJ. Other locals search out the local bars and become a regular. After the other regulars find out that you are sincere in your manner and desire to learn spanish, everyone will help. Be patient, anything worth getting takes time.

Take little rewards with gusto! It will be fun the first time that you are in line in a grocery store behind a couple of gosipping old ladies and you understand what they are saying. And no, they are not talking about you!

Again, try everything! Si deseas, puedas!

Diego-diego

My Espanol is still pretty horrid but I do know of some good sites....

BTW, Tampagringo you really buried this topic under a lot of subsets. I never paid much attention cuz I wasn't interested in "Other Locations/Central America/ Costa Rica"
Maybe we can get TJHombre to move it to a more general location.


http://studyspanish.com/tutorial.htm.

http://www.transparent.com/solospanish/fun_facts.htm

http://www.wannalearn.com/Academic_Subjects/World_Languages/Spanish/

Another good one is Parlo - Language Culture http://www.parlo.com/flash.asp

A couple of more links:

http://www.indiana.edu/~call/

http://college.hmco.com/languages/spanish/fuentes/

These are intermediary college courses. More focus on the subjunctive and things of that nature. BTW, I agree fully with the "Breaking Out of Beginners Spanish" comments. I just reread it on a 6 hour flight and found a lot of things that went over my head before, especially in the verb sections. The man does a very good job of explaining the imperfect vs. the preterit.

The submersion theory is right on. I just got back from a few days in Latin America and got another taste of how far I still have to go. Once I get out of simple question and answer patterns, I have problems.

And the jokes. It's like sometimes I'm in TJ with fav and she falls off the bed laughing about some skit on tv. I am laughing watching her, but I have no idea what the joke was about. She usually falls off the bed again when I explain what the punch line meant. She ought to be paying me.

I agree that "Breaking Out of Beginner Spanish" is a great book, although it's not a text and will be more useful to you after you've been studying for a while.

For basic texts, I have two favorites - Berlitz Essential Spanish (ISBN 2-8315-5718-6) and Living Languages Ultimate Spanish (ISBN 0-609-80247-X). Both books are excellent and are readily available at Barnes & Noble and Borders or on-line through Amazon.com.

At 260 pages, the Berlitz book is much briefer but is very-well organized and is amazingly comprehensive given its size. I loaned my copy to one of my Costa Rican friends who teaches Spanish and he likes it so much he's planning to use it as a text for his beginning students.

The Living Languages book is about 400 pages, and is available in three editions - text only, text and audio cassettes, or text and audio CDs. Buying the versions with the audio will certainly help with both listening and pronunciation, but there are disadvantages as well. First, they cost much more. Secondly, it may consciously or unconsciously limit your study opportunities to times when it's convenient to use your audio playback device. Thirdly, it's a pain in the ass to use cassettes with language programs because of the importance of repetition and review. The constant necessity of rewinding and finding the correct starting point will drive you nuts. So, if you do decide to buy one of the audio versions, pay the extra for the CDs. They're much more convenient to use. One very nice feature of the CD version is that it includes two separate sets of CDs - one to use with the textbook and a separate "On the Go" set to use in the car or elsewhere when you can't study the text.

I've also tried several of the computer CD-Rom programs, but I don't really like any of the ones I've used so I won't make any recommendations.

Some general suggestions - First, try to set up a study plan and schedule for yourself. The biggest problem with self-study of languages is that most people lack the discipline to follow through with their study schedule. Secondly, keep a notebook or, better yet, two notebooks - one for vocabulary and useful expressions and the other for grammar. When you complete each lesson, make notes of the important learning points in your notebook. Your notes should be detailed enough that you can do your review and study from your notebook without referring back to the text. Third, complete all of the exercises and activities in the textbook. Some of them seem repetitious and unnecessary but practice and repetition are the keys to learning a language.

There are four basic skills you need to master to learn a language - listening, speaking, reading and writing. Give some effort to all four skills, although the conversational skills are more important at the early stages and should receive the most attention.

Learn the pronunciation rules early in your studies. Spanish pronunciation, unlike English, follows very regular rules and it isn't difficult to learn how to pronounce the sounds or word stress patterns. Your pronunciation doesn't need to be perfect but it does need to be understandable, so make the effort to learn the rules and try to pronounce correctly. Both of the books I recommended have excellent, but different, approaches to teaching pronunciation. The Living Languages book focuses on Latin American pronunciation while the Berlitz book focuses on European Spanish, although it notes the differences in the introductory section of the book. Don't get hung up on this. There aren't that many differences and it's easy to learn them, so the Berlitz book is still an excellent choice for studying Latin American Spanish pronunciation.

If you have an opportunity to take live classes, do it. Self-study may seem quicker and more convenient but it's actually much more difficult. Usually regular college-level Spanish courses are better than the adult education Conversational Spanish courses, primarily because the adult ed classes seem to attract too many students who aren't serious enough or don't have the study skills to really learn a new language. When this happens, it poisons the entire experience.

In all of the Spanish-speaking countries, including Costa Rica, there are numerous private schools offering intensive Spanish study. Most of these programs are excellent but they are quite expensive. Do your research and check their references before deciding to enroll in a program.

Above all, once you start learning Spanish, use it as much as possible. Don't worry about making mistakes or getting into a conversation that may rapidly escalate beyond your abilities. All mistakes will be forgiven and most people will be patient and appreciative of your efforts. Even learning a few basic phrases from a phrasebook will go a long way towards bridging the culture/language gap when you visit a Spanish-speaking country. Be creative. If you don't know how to say something, try to find another way to get the idea across. For example, early in my stay here I had a flat tire. The lugbolts were too tight and my lug wrench wouldn't break them loose, so I needed a cross-handle wrench. My Spanish was still very basic and I had no idea how to ask for a lugwrench and the hardware store but I got my point across with my first effort. "Necesito la cosa cambiar mi llanta" (making a hand gesture of using a cross-handle wrench). The translation is "I need a thing to change my tire". I got just what I needed.

When you are first trying to have real conversations in Spanish, don't worry too much about the fine points of grammar and vocabulary. The important thing is to communicate. Your vocabulary and usage will improve rapidly once you begin to use the language for actual communication.

Buena Suerte,
TG

After you master the basics, one of the best books that I have ever seen to teach you the Spanish that is really spoken in Mexico is "Mexican Slang, A Guide" put out by Bueno Books in Campo CA. I bought a copy at Border Books. It just plain covers everything, including sexual situations.

hi all..

Im on my way back to CR the end of July 01 for a little over three weeks. I have enrolled in a imersion class at a school in Heredia for 3 weeks. I am curious to see how much my spanish improves in this forum.

I had a couple of years of college spanish and usually had no problem communicating on my last trip, but there so much I didnt understand.

The hardest part in spanish I have found for gringos is the following:
1. Use of para or por
2. 2 past tenses....one is preterite (i.e accomplishments (or non-accomplishments) that are related to time. The other is the imperfect tense that one uses to describe background information. In english you use the imperfect in setting up senarios like "I was standing on the corner, watching traffic go by....etc." without really describing an event.
3. The use of the subjuntive which is required in spanish as it has very subtle different meanings. This is what gives the beauty to spanish as being very expressive, but it is some that has virtually disappered in English. The only very that we use in subjuctive mode is the verb "to be", when we say something like "if I were you" i.e. something contrary to fact or impossible.

So when I return Ill let you know my opinion if you want to spend $500 plus to be immersed in the language.

Mike the ZorroFox

ZorroFox,

I would recommend "Breaking Out of Beginner's Spanish" by Joseph J. Keenan. Among other things he gives a pretty good explanation of the imperfect vs. the preterite. As I am sure that you are aware there are considerable more uses of the imperfect than those that you listed. If you would like to discuss this I would suggest that we move it out of the CR area and create an off topic Spanish thread. Let me know if you are interested. This would go best if we stayed focused on individual topics, rather than trying to cover too much.

Dime lo que quieres hacer.

Gitano

Thanks Gitano...
Im sure your spanish is better than mine. I find it quite easy to read, but I need more practice in listening and speaking as it goes quite fast for me.

I aware of the other uses of the imperfect, i.e. habitual actions of the past, expressions of time, state verbs (to be, to think, etc.)

Even the use of the subjunctive is a 4 unit college course, and the rules for its use are many. I guess the point I was making was its not simply a matter of writing the rules down on a card and refering to it when you are speaking, but more a matter of developing a sense for it when speaking as to know when the imperfect past, or the use of the subjuctive mode is appropriate and/or required.

Wait till I get back and then we can decide whether or not to set up a separate thread for this. The book the school uses is called Dicho y Hecho. Its $88 from Amazon, and I already have a bunch of college spanish text books.

Good luck and maybe Ill run into you down there one of these days.

Zorrofox

Zorrofox,

How was your language class? Would love to hear a detailed report of what immersion was like for you, as well as recommendations about the school you used or others you know of.

I have begun to work on my Spanish in preparation for an upcoming trip. I'm pretty much a beginner, and one thing I want to do is make up a bunch of flashcards for myself about lines I wish I had in my head the last trip.

Right now, though, I'm making a bunch of flashcards to help me get down the verbs. Since the paradigms which I must have memorized once never stay with me I'm writing some sentences to take me through them.

I'm using a web-based translator (freetranslation.com) to help me, and in doing this I ran into a question which I know I've had before. It has to do with the second person and why its form doesn't always seem to change. For example:

You see me.
Usted me ve.

She sees her child.
Ella ve a su ni–o.

Why wouldn't it be, usted me ves? Is this a tu/ud thing? Would Ella ves a su nino be equally correct?

I have many many more naive questions and am hoping for responses from this group to encourage me to ask them.

Bookie,

As Eureka told me a little over 2 years ago, you get 100 points for trying.

In Spanish ves goes with tú and usted goes with ve. Ella would also require ve. As you suggest this is a tú-usted thing.

Additionally, unlike english, Spanish subject pronouns are typically omitted unless they are need to eliminate ambiguity. Since ves can only be used with tú, people do not say tú. Ve on the other hand could use él, ella, or usted. In general the contect of the conversation makes it clear what is meant, but if you feel that there is ambiguity then use the subject pronoun.

Another case where you use the subject pronoun is for emphasis. Yo no voy a pagar setenta dolares por una hora. (I am not going to pay $70 for one hour.). Cleary yo was not necessary because voy is only used with yo.

Buena suerte hombre.

Ask away, I learn more by answering questions.

Gitano

Well, you COULD you use 'yo' with 'voy' in that sentence, and it actually would be clearer.

When you add the pronoun to the verb, even when the pronoun is obvious due to context, it adds emphasis to the sentence.

It's like this in Engish:

"I'm not going to pay $70 for an hour"

vs

" *I* am not going to pay $70 for an hour".

That's what I said.

Gitano,

Don't worry about Explorer, he's a nice guy...just get's weird when he can locate his bong.

Here's a question, what if you had left off "voy a" would you then in effect be saying "I don't pay...." or would that be incorrect grammar.

Red,

Your would have to change it to.

"No pago" or "Yo no pago".

Tonight's question concerns:

Te ves bien!

I must have copied it out of a book as meaning "You look good." But now that I think about it, the second person form suggests this would mean something like, "You see well." But now that I think about it some more and have looked up "te" I see that it is the direct object pronoun. So I get it, sort of. But is this a frequent occurence that a direct object pronoun makes you have to not think of the person of the verb as the doer of the action? And does the d.o. have to show up right before the verb, or where?

I don't know the gramatical answer, but I would think one would say "Se ve bien", as the seeing is being done by someone else. Is that called "reflexive"? It's been a long long time since I studied Spanish but I kinda remember that that form is used a lot.

Te ves bien is reflexive. The meaning would translate as you look good, even though the idiomatic translation is you see yourself good.

When the direct object (which must immediately preceed the verb, even if there are other pronouns used) refers to the subject of the verb, you have a reflexive verb. This merely means that the subject of the verb is doing something to themself.

ducharse - to shower
dormirse - to fall asleep
acordarse - to remember
maquillarse - to put on makeup
afeitarse - to shave

Many verbs can be both reflexive and non-reflexive and frequently the meaning changes a little depending on which. As an example dormir is to sleep whereas dormirse is to fall asleep.

Another good example is that ir is to go but irse is to leave. If somebody tells you to hurry up "Ten prisa" you can reply "ya me voy" (I am coming already). Good answer to a second knock on a door.

Thank you both for responses. More questions to follow. Just typing my question was a help. It does me so much good to know there's a place I can ask these questions where my agenda for asking them is understood.

Pareces bien. Rey?

Pues fijate que no. Debe ser 'te parece bien'

I have another grammatical person question. My phrase books gives me "What are you doing tonight?" as "Que hace esta noche."

To me it seems like it should be, "Que haces estas noche?" I guess, though, it would be sort of like me saying to someone in English, "What's happening tonight?" implying invitation.

So I guess my question is are questions put in the third person very often in Spanish? Or does it only happen once in a while?

p.s. "te parece bien"???--you seem ok? You're doing well? Is that you?

I'll be moving this thread soon to Off-Topic: Advice/Questions/Commentary: Speaking Spanish as it's kind of hard to find being in Costa Rica.

Bookie=Que hace esta noche-would be to someone
you are talking politely to and the conversation has not gone into the familiar mode
of expression. So using haces means you are
addressing someone in the familiar expression.
Esta noche means this night. Estas would be used
for more than one night...Estas noches...

One thing to note about the familiar: they don't use it in Costa Rica. Everything is Ud. not tu. As far as I know, that's the only country in Latin America that's that way. My favoritas made a bit of fun of me till someone told me.

I'd heard that about the non-use of the famililiar, but forgot it. It's good be to be reminded. Does anyone have any theory as to why this happened in CR and nowhere else?

Don't they use 'vos' in Costa Rica?

Below are some Spanish sentneces that I got by putting the correspoinding English sentences into a translation program. I know from fooling around with this thing that it's kind of plug-and-chug and there are likely to be far more standard ways to say such things. Please give me suggestions for alternate phraseings if any of these sentences would sound wierd beyond comprehension to tica ears.

-
I’m sorry, but last time I paid before and I was robbed.

Yo’M último tiempo arrepentido pero que pagué antes y fui robado.
-
Last time I paid first, and the result was I was robbed.

Ultimo tiempo que pagué primero, y el resultado era fui robado.
-
First you please me, then I pay you.
Primero usted por favor mí, entonces yo lo pago.

Try saying some of those phrases in a whore bar, it will be good comic relief. Those translaters are pieces of shit. The first sentence translates back to English as "I last time sorry but that I paid first and was robbed."

Bookie, hmmm, some of those translated phrases are sure weird.

For "I'm Sorry, but last time I paid before and I was robbed" I would say...
Disculpa, pero la ultima vez que paque antes fui robado.

First you please me, then I pay you.
Primero tu me complaces y luego te pago

I think that sounds a little better, for the first phrase, accent over e on paque.

Nero

The "familiar" form is very reserved in costa rica. Probably more so than any other latin country. Most people in CR use the "vos" form of the informal, but that is definately not the rule, because the "tu" form is still commonly used.
In most countries south of mexico, to varying degrees, you'll find people who say "vos"... especially argentina and costa rica..

usted es
tu eres
vos sos

P.S. those translator programs are horrible. I recommend not ever trusting the results, let alone using them in real life to avoid the potential embarasment.

I know those translators kick out funny results, that's why I brought them to the board. I guess I was thinking that it might be interesting to have pointed out how and why they're off.

Thanks to Nero for the suggestions. I've put your phrases on my flashcards.

How about this one?

I don't think you're going to be able to please me. Here is 1000 colones for a taxi. Please leave.

Yo no pienso que usted será capaz de complacerme. Aquí está 1000 colones para un taxi. Por favor hoja.

"I guess I was thinking that it might be interesting to have pointed out how and why they're off."

In a nutshell these programs don't work well because they translate word for word rather than in context.

For example in your latest frase the program translated 'leave' as leaf a noun rather than to leave as a verb.

BTW I realize this frase is intended for use in Costa Rica but if you should ever come to Tijuana I wouldn't advise using it. I could see how a mexicana could consider it a putdown and respond accordingly.

Bookie, take a semester at a community college of Spanish, it will not make you fluent by any means, but it ought to give you enough knowledge to avoid embarrassing mistakes. And take that translater machine and set it on fire.

My two cents worth: When you are first beginning to study Spanish and are struggling to learn all of the verb endings, why bother with the second person familiar endings at all? The usted/ustedes forms are always correct and by eliminating the task of studying the familiar forms, you cut your work by 1/3. You can learn them later.

Sheesh.

Rejtj,

Si tienes unos minutos. En tu repuesta a Porker, usaste la palabra "fijate". Que querías decir con esta palabra ? La he visto antes, pero no puedo encontrarla en mi diccionario de Oxford. Es verbo, verdad ?

TampaGringo,

I agree that it's a good approach to focus on usted and not worry about the tu stuff for the first few months. Notable excpetion would be if you are specializing in TJ bar girl talk, in which case you should start with the tu forms of the verbs.

My method - I go to comercial mexicana (supermarket) in zona rio. On occasion they ofer cheap US videos (in english) with spanish sub-titles (about U$4.00). They offer some experience .......

"fijate" means "check this out" or "look" as in "look, it works like this"

Gitano said, "Notable excpetion would be if you are specializing in TJ bar girl talk..."

What, there is another reason to learn Spanish?

Im getting ready to post my report about immersion spanish but before I do, I want to anser a few questions that I see about grammar stuff in recent postings.

First of all. I was told that they dont use the familiar form 'tu' in Central America. They prefer the Ud. form, and reserve their 2nd person singular 'vos' form for good friends and family. You will hear the tu form in the bars as many of the ladies there are from Columbia and D.R. which use the tu form.

Spanish uses about 70 different verbs to express reactions to events and situations. These were called 'verbos especiales' and they are set up using only the third person conjugation. Singular if what you are reacting to is singular, or plural if what you are reacting to is plural.

i.e.
1. Me qustan las chicas.....or the chicas are pleasing to me (spanish doesnt have a verb equivalent to 'to like')
2. Le interesa el libro......he/she/you is intersted in the book.
3. Nos perece que la comida sea bueno.....it appears/seems to us that the food is good.
4. Me da tristeza que los ninos no tengan bastante comida para comer......it makes me sad that the children....etc. (literally 'it gives me sadness)

Immersion Spanish

I attended three weeks of immersion spanish in Heredia CR during Aug 2001.
They have a web site at www.learnspanishcostarica.com for their prices and description of the course. The school is owned by a gringo married to a Tica. He speaks perfect spanish and is well connected in the community and he can get anything done for you. He even made a dental appt for me when I broke a filing. Trying to tell the dentist what is wrong with you in spanish is a real trip....cost me all of 4000 colonies to get it fixed. He can arrange all kinds of trips and offers alot of side things if you are interested, but really who goes to go to Costa Rica to see a butterfly farm.

Four hours a day of being hammered on in spanish. The instructors were
students from the local university and were generally friendly and had varying English skills (some almost zero). This is by design as they want to conduct the classes in Spanish. My last week and a half was one on one with a beautiful young Tica and I was usually more interested in her than what she was trying to teach me. I love their ability to hit all those words just perfect. It wasnt until the second week that I found out she could also speak English almost perfectly but she wouldnt use it with me.

Even as she picked up the speed I was able to hang with her, and I would stop her if she used a word I didnt know, and she would either explain it to me in spanish or translate it for me. It was easier to listen to than to speak as the words just dont come quick enough.

It was trying to get a drink out of a fire hose....and Im still overwhelmed by the amount of stuff I still have to go over to to find out what it was that I learned. I did get a feel for all the various grammar structures but need a lot of practice to get them down perfectly.

If you are planning on taking a class like this, I would recommend the following before you even go, depending upon your spanish background. I personnaly had two years in college, but never had that much practice in listening and speaking.

1. Get yourself some basic spanish book like "Spanish for Dummys". The easy part of spanish is that the vowels are always pronounced the same way. Once you learn the sounds of the letters, you can pronounce any spanish word by looking at it.

2. Understand who are the people in first, second, and third person; singular and plural. This is how spanish verbs are conjugated in all tenses. i.e. I, you, he/she, we, all of you (not used in latin america), and they.

3. Spanish grammar rules are very similar to English grammar rules (except they put the adjectives after the noun, and the pronouns before the verb). So therefore get yourself a high school grammar book, or go on line, and understand how we use different grammar structures. This will save you a lot of grief as you must know english grammar in order to understand spanish grammar. Find out how we form present perfect and past perfect tenses (i.e. I have eaten, and I had eaten). Find out how we use imperfect structures in english vs. perterite stuctures in English. Imperfects tend to be past tense descriptive in nature and perterites are past events that can be correlated with time. i.e. I went (event) to a party last night and I met (event) a lady named (imperfect) Susie. We were dancing (imperfect) and listening (imperfect) to the music when a fight broke out (event).

Spanish has separate past tense conjugations for imperfects and preterites and its one of the hardest things for me to use them correctly.

4. Get a feel for direct object and indirect object pronouns. i.e. I bought a gift for my daughter, or I bought it for her. 'It' is the direct object pronoun as it is what got bought. 'her' is the indirect object pronoun as she was the recipient of the action.

Doing the double substitutions in real time in spanish is not easy and takes much practice. 'I give it to her' becomes 'Se lo doy" but I finally got to the point where I could handle them.

5. There a different sets in pronouns we use in English for personal (I, you, etc.) direct object (it, that), indirect object (me, you, he/she, us, them), possesive (my, your, his, our...) object of prepositions (him, her...), and reflexive (myself, yourself....). Many of these overlap, and spanish has their sets of this very same pronouns that overlap. In many cases its necessary to further explain the 'who' you are talking about (i.e. a ella) as the pronouns for second and third person are the same, and the direct and indirect object pronouns are identical in the first person.

6. Now the hard part, which takes a lot of practice is the subjunctive mood. It is something that has almost disappeared in English except for a very few verbs. It is an essential part of spanish as its use is required in many situations. Find out how we use it in English. It conveys a very subtle different meaning to the listener. Spanish is either 'indicitive' or 'subjunctive' in its moods. Indicitive is expressing/reporting facts and truths and the way you think the world is. Sunjuctive moods are used in many expressions where you are trying to influence the behavior of other people as in "I want/wish/demand/hope that...etc that you do something". It is used to express emotional reactions "Im glad that....Im sorry that"... Its used to express doubt, and about things that are unknown to you....and many many other cases.
This is probably the hardest part and Ill give you a few examples as many of you have already encounted them.

the verb IR...to go....normally its 'voy, vas, va, vamos, van' in present indicitive. Its one of the few verbs that has a irregular present subjuctive and it is 'vaya, vayas, vaya, vayamos, vayan'. You will hear many times at the Blue Marlin from the Columbians, and the Dominicans that "No te vayas" or "no se vaya" (reflexive)....as they are requesting (trying to influence you) as to "Dont go away"

If you were looking for a country that has beautiful beaches it is NOT 'Busco un pais que tiene playas hermosas' Its 'Busco un pais que tenga playas hermosas'. This is because it is something that is unknown to you, and for all you know such a place might not even exist.

The nice thing is that the word 'QUE' or 'that' in many places tips you off that the second clause has to be in the subjuctive. So subjuctives kinda represent probablistic, unknown, future, uncertainity to things that may or may not happen or exist. Many times you could translate it as 'may have/be/etc' or 'might have' to reflect its probablistic uncertain nature.

So spanish grammar is much more difficult when you start considering present perfect and past perfect indicitive and subjuctive structures.

Over all I tend to think that spanish is more difficult than English. They told me the hard part of English is trying to master all the different vowel sounds, as many of them are new sounds for them and are only acquired after much practice. They dont understand why words such as host, most, lost, and cost dont rhyme, and wanted to know the grammer rule that we use to determine how the word should be pronounced.....hmmm...good question!

Another difference I noticed in Central America is their accent. A 'y' is pronounce with a hard english 'j' sound. So 'Yo' became 'Jo', and 'vaya' became 'vay-ja'.

Sorry this report is so long and I hope that TJHombre doesnt revoke my password because of it. But I plan on going back for more class after I get a better feeling for what I learned. I never did get to the point where I understood the street talk, as it is still too fast for me...and the tend to slur their words just as we do in English

Mike el Zorrofox

Que onda Gitano? Veo que se me adelanto Powerslave. Busca bajo fijar o fijarse. Oye que envidia me dan tus viajes a todas partes. Bueno, envidia de la buena!

Gracias Reytj and PowerSlave.

Hippie,

Hippie said:

Gitano said, "Notable excpetion would be if you are specializing in TJ bar girl talk..."

What, there is another reason to learn Spanish?

Answer yes: One could learn Spanish to chase Ticas. Actually in CR, at least at the BM, many of the girls are Dominicana or Colombiana. They tend to tu speak like the TJ girls.

Reply to Gitano (3-2-01) on making the "RR" sound. I found that the difficulty pronouncing words like "burrito" lay in the incorrect way I divided my sylables in spanish. I used to say "bur-ri-to". This places your tongue in the wrong position. The "rr" in spanish is ONE letter, not TWO. Try saying it as "bu-rri-to" with your tongue a little forward of the "r" position, almost to the "D" (english) position. Try forcing a little more air thru your mouth at the time of the "rr". Works for me about half the time. After you get the knack, the problem is to not say "rrr", "rrrr", of "rrrrr". When the comics portray a gringo mispronouncing spanish, they often use the "rrrr" is the speech baloon.

Pauncho