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	Archive 16	50		2006/04/29, 02:58 pm

Stats are rip 1981-1987
beltre 1998-2005

DM, a consistent .283 is a helluva lot different than .259 (look it up and subtract the one studly season from Beltre's resume and see what you get) plus ONE BIG YEAR for Beltre. Also note the 20 point difference in slugging %, which is huge, and would be a helluva lot more huge without the year hitting like he was Alber Pujols.

And again, shouldn't a 3B outhit a SS? Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith's HOF cases would be laughed at if they played 3B.

Baseball has had several one year wonders in the past. Why you think Beltre's better than any of them, who knows? It's looking more and more like a freak year. Without it, his stats are completely ordinary. Per at bat a stiff like Joe Crede eats his lunch.

Also, isn't arod domincan?

I'm not sure of all their ages, but the DR had a pretty good line this last year in the World Classic:

first baseman Albert Pujols (St. Louis), designated hitter David Ortiz (Boston), outfielders Manny Ramirez (Boston) and Vladimir Guerrero (Los Angeles Angels), shortstop Miguel Tejada (Baltimore), and second baseman Alfonso Soriano (Washington).

Arod, Pujols and Manny raised in US and drafted. Not signed at 16 off the island. Vlad and Tejada very good now, but who knows how they'll age? Dominicans have aged very poorly, historically. Of course they may have been 2-3 years older than originally advertised like Franco was.

Oh, and Pedro's not a player. He's a pitcher. And a freak of nature. One of the 5 greatest ever, and the other 4 are probably contemporaries.

heh-- he swings a bat now Agreed, Pedro is a freak of nature along with arod.

You guys always forget about Miguel Tejada, so this is what his April looks like so far:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG Season

24 95 18 41 2 0 6 20 0 .432 .466 .642

Sure. If Dave Winfield was "Mr. May", then Tejada can claim "Mr. April". Of course those #'s ain't even close to those of the immortal Brandon Phillips, the guy Cleveland cut 4 weeks ago.

Porker, if your position is that players from the DR age faster than other players, and your evidence is Sammy Sosa washed up at age 36, where do you think the drop-off is for players from the DR, compared with most players?

It started with Cesar Cedeno. Franco, Tony Fernandez, Pedro G., actually any Dominican I can think of. They started out with brilliant careers and were garbage by age 35. That's not a normal career progression. US players that are superstars before the age of 23 go to the HOF with 3,000 hits, 500+ hr's etc.

Most guys are washed up by 36...

First of all, it's been pretty well proven that a lot of Dominican players are a lot older than they claimed to be. Remember right after 9/11 when the paperwork requirements for sports work visas was tightened, and a lot of minor leaguers and some in the majors aged 2-4 years immediately? For the guys who already had a green card, who really knows how old they really are? Sammy Sosa may really be 38 or 39.

Second, and again this may not be accurate now, but some of the guys from the DR were shooting up horse steroids and everything and anything else they could to bulk up, get faster, etc.

I personally think it's a combination of those two factors that explains, for some, why they hit a brick wall seemingly a couple of years before most other players would.

That being said, a lot of guys just up and suck one day. They get injured and stay injured, nothing major, but a muscle tear in the arm can lead to issues with the shoulder, which can screw up your back, and so on. Maybe their vision starts to fade a bit and they can't pick up breaking balls as fast as before, any number of things. But, with the Dominican players, there does seem to be wide cross section of players who flamed out earlier than most.

Catocony, exactly.

DM, it'd be like Derek Jeter suddenly becoming a .260 career hitter with NO power or speed in 2008 and then being drummed out of beisbol within a year. Wanna bet that'll happen to Jeter? Maximus will bet big money that it won't!!!

BTW, the success enjoyed by old-fart rag-arms like Mussina, Glavine and Maddux so far has been increidble. Maddux has long since cinched HOF status (and is a charter member of the TOP FIVE I alluded to the other day), but Mussina and Glavine getting a 2nd wind heading for Suttonville is mighty impressive.

Statistically, about 80 percent of all players active at age 28 are out of the major leagues by age 32. Of course, the HOF candidates are the minority who play on beyond age 32. So, the question is whether Dominican all-star caliber players at age 28 are less likely to be playing 5 or 10 years later, which I can't answer.

In the same vein, is Jeff Kent washed up at age 38? He's hitting .190, and the Dodgers can't have a cleanup hitter who can't hit.

Any bets as to Jeff Kent's age 38 rbi total vs. Tejada's?

US-based MLB only!!!

And not to gratuitously involve fantasy beisbol here, Jeff Kent is THE BUY LOW guy in the majors right now, assuming you're not after steals.

Shit, beltre's 10 years younger and also not hitting MY weight!

Catacony gets credit for the astute observation that DR players are among the world's biggest liars.

Angels had a DR pitcher named Ramon Ortiz, who claimed to be 24 a couple of years ago. The Angels worked him into the starting rotation thinking that at this level of proficiency, he'd be a great investment in a starting pitcher with a shelf life of 8-10 years. During the 2003-2004 offseason an announcement is made that his real age is 29. Do ya think the Angels were pissed giving so much playing time to developing a guy who already was at his peak?

And who can forget a couple of years ago a Little League pitcher for a New York City inner city team from the DR. Little League has finally cracked down on verifying foreign players ages. The kid was not 12 yrs old, he was almost 14!

Little League had a lot of cheating. The Phillipines were stripped of the world title about 6/7 years ago for using kids too old.
Porker, given the penchant for lying by PI baseball kids ... you might think twice about accepting as true the young lady's contention that she is over 18yrs old (he-he-he).

Do you think Taiwan was cheating all those years they won world titles?

Think about it. As much money as there is in baseball, if a Taiwanese kid was really 12 yrs old and better than everybody in the world ... don't you think they would try to cash in on the millions of dollars to be had playing MLB?

But there isn't not even 1 kid from Taiwan that ever came close to making millions playing MLB.
The only logical conclusion was that they were lying their asses off. Nowadays with so many people in the USA who speak Mandarin/Cantonese somebody surely would do some investigating a find those cheating kids were all 8th/9th graders (and fucking their brains out with those AMP wannabees).

If Sammy Sosa is washed up prematurely ... he probably was lying his ass off to get an opportunity as an up-an-coming future star when really he was already prime time age.

Agree?

Porker
I thought Ted Williams was the last to hit your weight .

KM, you do realize that I'm a foot shorter than you are? Limited poundage potential here, but I'm working on it!

Its always been a puzzle to me why Taiwan wins the Little League title every year and never produces any major league players.

Its always been a puzzle to me why Taiwan wins the Little League title every year and never produces any major league players.

The puzzle may be that they haven't won the title since 1996, so what makes it seem like they win every year ??

http://tinyurl.com/jfb9k

"Brewers 1B Fielder wins NL Rookie of Month"

"Fielder on Tuesday was named the National League Rookie of the Month for April.

The Brewers' first-round draft selection in 2002, Fielder led all NL rookies with a .344 batting average, five home runs, 33 hits and 53 total bases during April. He collected 16 RBI and scored 15 runs while posting a .522 slugging percentage in 21 games. "

I think I heard of this guy before.

Explorer, What do Angel Berroa, Ben Grieve, Todd Hollandsworth, Jason Jennings and Eric Hinske all have in common?

U know Greive and Hinkse was on my mind at the onset of this discussion -- very good retort ;)

Prince Fielder is the Real Deal.


Someday, Porker will be posting "What do Fred Lynn, Kevin Mitchell, and Jeff Burroughs have in common?"

Explorer, they were terrific hitters that had disappointing careers?

Prince Fielder's a good young hitter. He had a good first month of the year. So what? He ain't the next Pujols or anything. It will indeed be fun seeing how good the guy can actually be. THIS YEAR? Probably not all THAT good.

What the HELL is up with Mark Prior? Anyone know? Is there ANY chance he pitches 100+ innings this year? He's running out of time to do so...

BTW, anybody miss Bill King? I did some time in the Bay Area in the late 90's, and that guy was pretty damned entertaining. So were $1 tickets (could easily sneak feild level) and $1 hot dogs back in the days when the Gumby A's were TRULY small market, dumping guys like McGwire and playing chubby kids like Giambi and Stairs!

Porker
As a long suffering Cub's fan I pray to Buddha that both he and Wood's are close to returning to some semblance of their former selves. The latest from the Cub's website on both--



SAN DIEGO -- Chicago Cubs pitcher Kerry Wood will make his first Minor League rehab start on Sunday for Class A Peoria, and he will likely need at least one more such outing before he's ready to join the big-league team.
Wood, rehabbing from arthroscopic shoulder surgery last August, is expected to throw 70-80 pitches for the Peoria Chiefs, who play host to Lansing.

"We're looking for him to come out of it healthy and continue to throw well," Cubs pitching coach Larry Rothschild said Saturday.

Mark Prior, whose rehab was slowed by a bout of food poisoning, threw 30 pitches on Saturday in a side session in Mesa, Ariz., and all went well, Rothschild said.

Prior will not throw Sunday and Monday, but he will do a side session on Tuesday which will involve more pitches. If all goes well, he could face hitters in his next turn.

Rothschild also said Wade Miller, rehabbing from a similar shoulder procedure as Wood's, is feeling better and has resumed his program.




With Derek Bell injured the Cubbies apparently need to win by shutout or lose.

KM, you have some wicked freudian slips on beisbol names: 1st Luis Pujols, now d. bell, currently facing those pesky possession charges!!!

If the Cubs get 250 IP from that awesome 2-some this year (and 350 ab's from d. LEE!!!) they might just be in the wildcard race, as the Braves look completely FINISHED. Of course, right NOW the braves are a better bet than the Cubs to turn things around.

KM, watching any of the hawkey playoffs?

Prince Fielder watch:

He goes 0-for-San Diego to end up at .312.

And has an owie. Still, everyone was right here, an impressive young hitter.

I think he's also gained 20 pounds since the season started as well. I thought his pappy had a gland problem , but the Prince makes Cecil look like Kate Moss.

By Porker on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 02:28 pm: And not to gratuitously involve fantasy beisbol here, Jeff Kent is THE BUY LOW guy in the majors right now, assuming you're not after steals.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4826/splits;_ylt=Aoyk1WHh1wM9XCxpuR0QNNuFCLcF

Kent in 12 May games to date: 12/43, 4 HR 11 rbi .959 OPS, currently hitting WELL above Porker's weight at .216

After sweeping Cleveland this weekend Detroit's 24-13. WOW. About this time last year Explorer was ready to call Frank Robinson manager of the CENTURY. What does that make Jim Leyland so far this year?

Add a solo HR by Kent in 3 AB's today. Wish I had him instead of Mr. Girlie Man Giles on my team right now.

I am not convinced that 38 year old Jeff Kent is not done.

Even if he's 1/2 done, he'll be fine.

BTW, the 1/4 way point between Kent and Fielder is Dan Uggla. That guy has put up damned good numbers so far with ZERO expectations.

Will Albert Pujols hit 500 HR's before he turns 30? Sure seems like he's just a couple months away...

Greatest start to a career ever, and now a CAREER YEAR? Fucking WOW!

He must be using the Wizzinator.

Jeff Kent shows some signs of coming back, maybe he is not too old, after all.

Prince Fielder watch: still hitting .326, probably the best hitter on his team, although I am still not convinced he is going to end up much over .280. He has a chance to be Rookie of the Year if he keeps this up.

The Dodgers are not for real. They are currently enjoying the longest streak of timely hitting of any Dodger team I can remember. They are enjoying the spectacle of a bunch of young players coming up at the same time and hitting more than their weight.

I do not think that the youngsters will continue to hit over .300 for the season, and I don't think that Nomar will hit .365 this year. On the other hand, Kent and Furcal may improve, Repko will come back and hit .280, the pitching is what the pitching is, except that Gagne is a wild card, and their timely hitting cannot continue.

I don't think that the Dodgers stink more than the other teams, so this could be a repeat of 2004, when they won the division with a crappy team, only to be slaughtered by a real time in the playoffs. If the youngsters continue to hit .300, anything is possible, but its unlikely.

So, enjoy it while you can.

Although better than last year I'm still waiting for the senior citizens to drop like flies and end up like last year with a bunch of no names in the starting lineup. Old guys can't last a season.

I got a casting idea for "The Barry Bonds Story" when Oliver Stone decides to make it.

Have Chris Rock play Bonds during the early years, and have Shaq play Bonds from 1998 to the present.

Some of the Dodger codgers are already biting the pickle - Mueller is out at third base, Kent is out at second for a bit, Garciaparra missed the first 18 games, and Lofton is in and out of the lineup.

The hope is the next generation, if they hit, life will be good for the Dodgers in the future.

Porker
Re ur question about Mark Prior. He pitched today for Peoria 2 innings 4 runs - 2 earned on 4 hits one a home run. Good news is he did have 3 Ks and no walks. Guess he has a bit of work to do yet.

Kerry Wood looked much better today and against the Reds a pretty good hiting club. 96 MPH fastball and wicked curve and slider. Bit of trouble with control but all in all very encouraging.

Here come Da Cubbies !!! hehe

I believe that the current Dodger starting lineup is composed of zero players from last year, which is probably a good thing, but I cannot remember the last time that a Dodger team completely turned over its lineup in one year.

Prince Fielder watch:

He goes 0 for June, to drop to .302.

How bout my Mets(my NL pick)????

WOW, what a game.

Can't wait for BOS vs NYM in the series to celebrate their 20th. No Buckner this time tho.

Mets have a pretty damned good middle of the order, and when all 3 of those guys homer in the same game, well, they SHOULD win!

DM, While congratulating yourself on how smart you are, I'm sure you knew Glavine was gonna reel off 9 wins in 10 weeks to start the season, right?

No, I wasn't counting on that, but then again they are 7 1/2 up, so even if he wasn't on such a roll, they would be in first. I still think they need another pitcher before the year is done, but so far Pedro and Glav are as good as any.

Prince Fielder watch:

A little better week, a couple of home runs, a few hits, down to .298, but sort of getting into a pattern now. He has 10 home runs, so this translates into a .300 BA and maybe 30 HRs if he doesn't get hurt. Not bad for a rookie.

If Milwaukee had one more bat, and some pitching, they would be a contender. Too bad they don't have any cash to get someone.

Uggla is doing better with no fanfare...

Is it my imagination, or have the Arizona Diamondbacks lost every game since Grimsby was charged with illicit drugs?

They won one the other night, but other than that, yes, you're right.

Fluke stat of the week: Gumby A's don't have a pinch hit since early in last September?

Prince Fielder watch:

Hitting .267

He is basically 0 for June and July. If I were the manager of the Brewers, I would sit him for a couple of days while he thinks about the hole in his swing.

Prince Fielder watch:

He rebounded a bit after the All Star break, and is settling in at .288, with 19 home runs. He is no longer a top contender for Rookie of the Year, though.

Prince Fielder watch:

Settling in at .286, looks to end the season around that mark, with 30 home runs or so. These are better than average numbers for a first baseman in the NL, and I look to his power numbers to increase over the years, he will probably hit 40 HRs some years if he doesn't get hurt.

The Yankees adding Bobby Abreu is just SICK! Damon, Jeter, Abreu, Arod, Sheffield, Giambi, Godzirra, Posada, Cano: That's one helluva lineup. If the Big Ugly and Mussina can put it all together in October, that team's gonna win easily.

BTW, Explorer, Adrian Gonzalez would give Prince Fielder a run for his money as best rookie FIRST BASEMAN in the NL. What a great year for rookies across the board.

Given that Prince Fielder isn't hitting .335 anymore, you could be right.

A lot more important than Prince Fielder, in the big scheme of things, is 2nd year 1B Ryan Howard. It's August 26 and the fucker has 46 HR's and 121 RBI. In about 200 career games, the guy has almost 70 HR's. Unbelievable.

Yeah -- Too unbelievable.

I heard he's got a wizzinator in his locker.

Howard may be the best player from St. Louis since Yogi Berra, who by the way not only swung a big stick at the plate, allegedly swung an even bigger stick in the locker room if you know what I mean.

Yes true Porker
even with EROD / Chokle Rod.

By the way wimpy Jeter was moved in the lineup this season and responded by making the AL ALL Star team again and competing for the AL batting title

and all your boy EROD has done is receive a new nickname.

Bosox are done

He better compete harder for that batting title as Joe Mauer has a stranglehold on it and nobody gives a flying fuck who finishes second. Get it right, dude, that's 2005 AL MVP and future 1st ballot hall-of-famer that you're giving your little nickname to.

AROD is a great player, but he is constantly being judge by his $25 million a year contract, and no one can live up to that. He needs to get out of NYC, but no team is going to take him unless the Yankees agree to pay part of his salary.

Porker

Erod/ChokeRod is on my team so I have to support him in order for my team to win the pennant. Maybe this year third time will be a charm and he will produce IN THE PLAYOFFS AND WORLD SERIES.

2005 is in the past and Jeter is being touted as being in the running for 2006 AL MVP and will also be a first ballot hall of famer.

Jeter better get into the 20's in HR's or win a batting title if he wants to even SNIFF an MVP award. He's gonna do neither. You can give the award to Joe Mauer now, bitch.

And, of course, Jeter can lick Giambi and Arod's balls until he wins such MVP award. Maximus votes don't count for SHIT compared to such awards.

Re: 1st ballot HOF status: Your boy Jeter, since he hits like A LITTLE FUCKING GIRL power-wise, better either start accumulating 3500+ career hits or some gold gloves at SS. You know, the stuff Arod pretty much already has in his pocket...

LOL!

The only thing Erod has in his pockets is his hands!
How else can you explain missing little league level ground balls and having all the fans in the seats by third scared to death?

BTW, David Ortiz' 'heart' troubles only emphasize how little the guy exerts himself on the field as a DH. I get more exercise in any given day than that guy gets in 4 AB's and jogging to first base. Any talk of him being an MVP on a slightly above average team is a JOKE.

Good points on Ortiz.

Morneau has a better chance of winning the AL MVP than Mauer. Right now, I would put money on Jermaine Dye though.

Ryan Howard has 28 HR's in 198 AB's since the all-star break, 54 games, exactly 1/3 of a season. .496 OBP, .833 slugging. Unfuckingbelievable production, and it's only his second year in the majors. He was an old rookie last year, but his 56 dingers so far and 28 in 2 months is beyond description. He makes Prince Fielder look like a pimple on a flea's ass.

Anybody else think the National League is a fucking joke? The White Sox and Twins are EXCELLENT teams, and one of them won't be playing in the postseason this year. The Red Sox and Angels are good teams and are waaaay out of the playoff race.

Meanwhile, Houston hasn't sniffed .500 in months and still think they are in the wild-card picture. The Mets have by far the best record in the league and the immortal Steve Trachsel might be their 2nd best starter (behind Pedro, assuming he's ready to go come October. If NOT, Trachsel's NUMBER ONE?). The Mets have an awesome top of their lineup, but there's not a team in the race in the NL that has so much as TWO starting pitchers worth a shit. The whole LEAGUE is a joke?

Interesting about Morneau being the AL MVP, and he had another huge, huge big hit last night with an impact on the playoff race. If Mauer doesn't hit .350 and/or win the batting title, then the race might be open to others, but I say if Mauer DOES, that's the single greatest offensive accomplishment by a catcher, and even more so considering his age and the serious injury he has come back from.

For a 1B or a DH to be considered for an MVP award, he better make all the other hitters in the league look like little girls, like Howard is this year and Pujols has done in the past.

Mauer is a great player and I actually have him on my fantasy team. However, winning the battle title as a catcher is not going to get him the MVP with only 11 HRs and 76 RBI right now.

Compare that to Morneau hitting .318 with 33 HRS and 118 RBI, or Jermaine Dye hitting .328 with 41 HRS and 112 RBI and you can see that Mauer doesn't have a chance at MVP.

I think Dye will actually win the MVP and Frank Thomas will be the comeback player of the year.

Re-visiting the AL MVP discussion, I'd vote for Johan Santana, actually. A man among boys this year for starting pitchers in baseball, and easily THE most important person to his team's success. As mentioned, Mauer just didn't have enough power. Of course he had as much power as Jeter and there are rumors that Jeter's an MVP candidate as some sort of B.S. lifetime achievement award.

In the NL, despite Explorer's considerable hype for Prince Fielder, I'd say it's between two other 1B's, Pujols and Howard. Tough to say anybody's BETTER than Albert Pujols, but Howard did have one HELLUVA year. Still, I'd say Pujols.

Hey, all I said was that Fielder could hit, and that we would hit .280. He turned out to hit .267, and stopped hitting HRs in July, for some reason.

Explorer, the ONLY thing remarkable about Prince Fielder is the extreme young age that he has had success in the major leagues. That historically has boded well for hitters' long-term career numbers, but when you're a FAT 21 year old, how do you project the guy is going to be at 30+? It will be a MAJOR surprise if Prince Fielder EVER reaches the numbers Ryan Howard just put up in his first full year in the big leagues.

This Yankees lineup is frigg'n INSANE. Bobby Abreu could hit .300 in his sleep and add in 120 BB patience and the power/speed ability, and he's just a PERFECT middle of the order guy on ANY team, but elevates this Yankee lineup to all-time awesome status. When Godzilla Matsui and Posada (one of the 20 greatest offensive catchers of ALL TIME) are vying for the status of your WORST hitter, that's one HELL of a great lineup. Before the season, obviously, it would be easy to single out Cano as the worst hitter, but the fucker hit THREE FORTY in HIS first full year in the bigs?

Of course the Jankees pitching looks as mediocre as their O looks STRONG, so may make for some loooong, high scoring games. My favorites!

CAN YOU BELIEVE THE GAME JETER HAD LAST NIGHT FOR THE FIRST GAME AGAINST DETROIT!!!!!!!!!!! GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!

SP

Who the HELL is Hong-Chih Kuo and why is he on my TV screen pitching a playoff game in October? At least John Maine (started for the Mets last night) was some sort of decent prospect before becoming a DECENT rookie.

The N.L. BELCHES suckitude!

Just another day for PLAYOFF AND WORLD SERIES RESULTS Producing MVP JETER

Not bad for such a sissy hitter as according to Porker

Jeter Gets Yanks Off to Quick Start in Game 1
MVP Candidate Collects Five Hits, Homer in 8-4 Win
By RONALD BLUM

AP Sports
NEW YORK (Oct. 3) - In the New York Yankees' modern-day Murderers' Row, one player always stands out: Derek Jeter.


The Yankees captain tied the postseason record for hits, going 5-for-5 with two doubles and a home run to spark New York in its postseason opener, an 8-4 victory over the Detroit Tigers on Tuesday night.

"He was great," Yankees owner George Steinbrenner said. "It was good because it was a tough game."

Now as for the great Choke-Rod what did he do today? Cost my Yankees a playoff game. Sure wish he would for once in three years show me how Porker could possibly call him one of the greatest players of all time.

However here is what he did do.....

Alex Rodriguez had another tough day, going 0-for-4 with three strikeouts, including one that ended the first with the bases loaded. He's 1-for-8 with four strikeouts in this series.

"I didn't like him that well," Yankees owner George Steinbrenner said.

Booed loudly after his final two at-bats, A-Rod hasn't driven in a run in his last 10 postseason games and is 5-for-40 (.125) in his last 11.

do you have a link for your paste Max?

nevermind-- I saw that @ yahoo. it is a weird quote by the fat man. I suspect it was taken out of context and certainly sounds like it was truncated. The biggest joke is even putting the letters MVP next to Jeter's name this year. The MVP will be a pitcher. If the sox had a better year, Ortiz would have it-- o well.

But DM, Santana gave up 2 runs and his team lost a playoff game. Can't give a guy an MVP when he loses a playoff game. In fact, according to NY frontrunners, that's a good reason to get shipped to Kansas City or something...

OMG-- that's almost A-rod-eske! What am I thinking ... bestowing the MVP to the one who post unreal #s for the entire year and get them to where they are. Yes, your right, the NY-hater crowd would shun Santana for being on the field during a loss...

Santana had an unreal year and deserves every award one can muster up.

A-Rod should be the first recipient of the "Atlanta Braves Memorial Regular Season Champ/Post Season Chump Award". He's great April - September but you may as well leave him off the postseason roster.

He's my favorite Yankee.

my only retort to all the A-rod haters is to send him over to the red sox.

Well, the Yankees fucked up again tonight, but my guess is they will win the next two just to bring it back home to the Bronx.

SP

It's a best-of-five series Steve.

An error by A-Rod. Hmmmm ... that's going to go over well back in the Big Apple.

Hopefully the tigs will put us all out of our misery and finish off the yanks today. BTW, I don't see Sheff drawing any critism-- I think he had 1 hit this entire series.


Does that diminish what he's done for them in the last two years?

Christ! Another depressing year for Yankee fans............I just can't take this shit anymore.....they are now down 7 zip and I happen to be visiting in NY with tickets for game 5 in the Bronx! Depressing indeed.....

Cat........Yes, I know; I meant win it in the Bronx by winning the next 2.......now it will take a miracle.....

SP

Well like any good New Yorker I am now a front runner and chanting "Lets go Mets!" . I will be a Yankee fan when they return to the World Series.

Atlanta Braves Memorial Regular Season Champ/Post Season Chump Award

Looks like the whole Yankee team should be up for that award. You certainly cannot single out A Rod in this series.
What a monumental tank job by a bunch of overpaid divas. Pretty lame effort.

BTW
I could not be happier.

Yeah, when the Yankees lose, they do so without much of a fight. I guess those fat contracts do buy happiness since they don't seem to try that hard to win in the playoffs. I expect most of them have tee times on their favorite Florida golf courses most mornings this week and were more focused on that.

I know many of you will think I'm crazy but I believe this is an example of how overrated Joe Torre is as a manager. Whenever he goes toe to toe with superior managers such as Jim Leyland or Mike Scoscia, he cannot match up.

The Yankees were winning championships because they had leaders and character players such as Paul O'Neil, Tino Martinez, and Derek Jeter. They also would add free agent vets like Clemens and Boggs who were hungry for championships and are good character guys themselves. Now, the only hard nosed player I see out there is Jeter, Abreau and Mussina. Now, Randy Johnson is also a great competitor but his best days are well behind him.

When Torre makes his acceptance speech at the Hall of Fame, the first person he should thank is Derek Jeter. It is Jeter who won those championships..not Torre. Torre was just there for the ride.

You absolutely can single out ARod. He went 1 for 14 in the series, with no RBI. That's the second post season in a row that he hasn't had an RBI. That's what 25 million a year gets you. He will not be a Yankee next year.

I can't believe the Twins went out so fast. If you would have told me in April that the A's and the Tigers would be the last two teams standing in the AL , I would have laughed in your face.

Blazers--- another Jeter butt licker eh? I think Rivera had something to do with those championships along with several other key ingredients. Point being they had some awesome TEAMS (vs. players). Someone didn't come thru, another dude would pick it up. A guy going into a slump is not a major deal when you win, only when you lose.

KM--- my feelings exactly. I'm pulling for a tigers vs mets series. I liked the met's all year, but don't think they will take it with their current rotation.

As for coaching honors, that should be extended to Girardi.

Arelius, then "single out" the entire team. Besides jeter, the next best hitter was Damon at .225

Sigh.

I have mixed feelings about the Dodgers - given this is a transition year for them, just getting to the playoffs was an accomplishment. They look like they have the foundation of a good team for years to come, once the Madduxes, Kents, Garciaparras ride off into the sunset (or Cooperstown). So, although this year may not end well, the youngsters are getting plenty of playoff experience.

AHHHHHHH, Why be miserable for a bunch of guys who make 15 million a year? Fuck em, Let's go Mets! You can't blame Torre, if the players don't want it then you can't coach them. Look at good ole Wille Randolph, Torres latest pupil who will bring home the glory for NYC! Just remember when the Mets win it's because a Yankee brought them to the promised land,lol.

Ah Mets fans, dont count your chickens before Jim Leyland takes his troops into the coup to break the eggs before they hatch.

DM, Damon, or Jeter for example, aren't usually chokers in Oct. ARod is.

I'd like to see the Tigers win it.

Arellius, your right, please write Stienb. and have him send Arod to Boston free of charge.

Never knock Jeter. He is a hall of fame player. Torre is most likely gone after this nonsense............The team definitely has 90' Atlanta Braves - itis. Bring in Lou!

SP

If George gets rid of Torre and brings that drunk Pinella in it will be the worst move in Yankee history. Torre stays until the end of his contract then it's Donny baseballs turn.

Sounds like a done deal TRW. I strongly doubt Pinella will do any better than Torre .

In fact I cannot see any of those overpaid prima donnas accepting Pinella's overbearing personality. Except perhaps Godzilla who's used to discipline in Japan.

The Yankees need a change and a big one fast. It might not be Pinella, but I believe Torres days are numbered since he too is most likely fed up. Great as he is, and not placing any blame his way, it would probably be a good idea for him to retire now and let the Yankees reboot. Getting rid of A-Rod is probably a good idea as well. They guy is a fantastic ball player up until the playoffs; however he just can't psychologically cut the heat in the NY sports market, and this is what fucks with his head. Also, playing next to Jeter who is a far better ball player all around, and who is loved by all, is something else he can't handle; all this and more is why BIG STIENY should cut a deal and get a few great young pitchers for A-Rod, and let him move on to someplace where there isn't as much pressure. I believe that is good for all. Donny would probably be a great manager as well......this year especially wore Torre out.....I'll bet any amount of cash that he is gone, solely by choice.

SP

A-rod's $25m a year is already being split between Texas and New York. That guy has sunk two franchises with the same fucking contract, if he is traded the Yankees will have to pick up a lot of the tab. In that case, he'll be getting checks from three different teams every month.

As a Met fan first and Yankee fan second, I was hoping for another subway series (in which case the normally beloved pinstripes automatically take on the look of a svastika to me). However, I believe the Yankee debacle really improves the Mets chances of going all the way considering their starting pitching deficiency. I just don't believe that any playoff team with the exception of the Yankees and now possibly the Tigers, have enough of an attack to exploit the Mets pitching problems considering that the Mets will score plenty themselves regardless of the pitching thrown against them.

The Mets bats were actually rather cool in the Dodgers series - I still think they are shaking off their 3 week lumber slumber following the early division clinch.

I do confess that Detroit concerns me as guided by Leyland, a powerful force he certainly is. Still overall, I thought the Yankees were the biggest threat to a post season failure by the Mets.

Erip, aren't you concerned by the reincarnation of Juan Encarnacion? He's been there before, and he's won it before, likewise Eckstein and Spiezio?

Huevon, I am not cocky about the Mets chances. It is hard to be cocky when you back a team that may have the likes of Oliver Perez in the starting rotation. Also, I haven't seen the Cardinals since they last played L.A. so I'm not really prepared to do an in depth analysis.

But I do think the Mets get the best of most of the match ups position by position with the Cardinals and with the remaining AL contenders. The only team I think that out matched them 1-8 was the Yankees.

I also think that the odds in a 7 game series have to be overwhelmingly in favor of a team that finished 35 games over .500 against a team that finished 5 games over .500 in the same league. The Cardinals won their division by default in the horrible NL. Nobody else stepped up to take it until it was too late.

The Mets remind me of the Big Red Machine of the 70's. Great lineup with speed and power top to bottom, good bench, mediocre to lousy starting pitching and Captain Hook ready to employ a superior bullpen.

I think it will most likely be the Mets and Tigers in this world series, and although the Tigers would be favored I hope the Mets can pull it together enough to win. Ya never know.....when I was a kid they were known as the amazins since, in '73, they came back from last place in September to win the division and make it to the world series.....

SP

I am a Cardinals fan, but I gotta tell you guys, I like the Mets to win it. Every year it's the same thing for us, we get pumped up in the divisional playoffs, then deflated in the championship series.

At least you're not a Yankee fan! We have been depressed ever since the Yankees lost the world series in game 7 in the 9th inning with Rivera on the mound in 2001.....what a fucking nightmare that was! Many of us have yet to recover from 2004 when we lost to the Red Sox after winning the first 3..........I wish I were a Cardinal fan.

SP

Yeah, but the Yanks have 26 world titles to help ease the pain, we only have nine.

Huevon, this is a "what have you done for me lately" world in u never took note

DM, I know all too well of what you speak. As a matter of fact I use that line more often than I should myself.

Perhaps no sport embodies that mindset more than all-star football.

I ask myself, where would pro football be without the media-generated, off-the-field storylines, the Atlantic City boys setting the spread, and the fans consuming mass quantities of alcohol to get fired up before the game?

Baseball, however, is viewed by many people as something where actual records are remembered and do, somehow, mean something. We all know one man's creed is another man's belly laugh.

That being said, I hope Parcells decides to involve T.O. more in the offense this week...

I am perhaps one of the biggest TO fans and always have been. However, I must say his antics in Dallas are getting old. He's never bothered me in the past as he performed and was full bore game time. However this year, he's been not only a circus act, but lame ass receiver. Not a good combo.

Good to see he found the zone today-- specially since I own him in 2/3 fantasy leagues!

Big start by John Maine to force game 7. That guy got absolutely ABUSED by Albert Pujols in a game at Shea in August. Looks like Pujols is the only bat in the Cardinals' lineup right now, but just might be enough.

Helps, of course, that a guy like Oliver Perez is gonna start a game 7 of an LCS. 3-13 with a 6.55 ERA ia all the Mets have left to throw out there? U-G-L-Y. Jeff Suppan looks like Bob Gibson compared to him!

Of course the METS O looks a LOT better too...

Damn shame the Met's pitching went into the shitter... I would of liked to see a decent met rotation/offense vs. the young guns of detriot.


Go Mets!

Pedro vs. Suppan would be mighty exciting, wouldn't it?

Oliver P. obviously has a talent, but has little command. Looking GREAT in the 1st...

DIGA ADIOS A ESTA PELOTA!!!

se va, se va, se fue!!!

Pitching to Pujols with a man on... OOPS!

Love Leyland's 'genius' lineup decision in game one to bench Thames and play Guillen at 1B and the immortal Ramon Santiago at SS. The guy wasn't good enough to play all fucking season, and now he's in the lineup in game 1 of the WS? BRILLIANT!

Pitched to Pujols AGAIN with man on base. This time he only hit a ground rule double on a pitch a foot outside. More brilliance...

the series is turning out be to a real yawn. The shit on Roger's hand has been the only thing that kept me awake thus far. I can't imagine the ratings being up there.

Slightly more exciting than the Super Bowl and the NBA playoffs were however.

Eckstein > Pujols. Uh huh...

Porker, that is definitely not fuzzy math!!!

In a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately world, the Cardinals have just won the World Series.

LaRussa taking a scrap-heap team to the title, has finally lived up to the genius moniker.

The rest of the nation, give us and this series the Bronx cheer, the Cardinal nation is gonna enjoy this for a few days...

It's the year of the team that underachieving head coach finally living up to expectations...ie. Cowher and LaRussa. Maybe Schottenheimer can complete the trifecta? Crazier things have happened.

its the year of dog shit teams (steelers/Cards) and coaches getting lucky at the right time.

Yeah, that first Patriots championship won on pure skill and talent...NOT.

Pujols' final batting average for the series was .200. But he was easily the single most important player in that series. Hard to give a Series MVP award to a guy that hit .200, but anybody that thinks Eckstein was a more important player, even in game 5 when he got 2 RBI without hitting the ball out of the INFIELD, sorry. Not saying Eckstein sucks, but if you're building your team around that guy, you have serious problems. Pujols and Carpenter were GODS, everyone else was competent/average. Looks like an NBA recipe for success.

Carpenter is the best righ-handed pitcher in baseball and played great but Pujols did nothing. It's always great to have a player like Pujols as it protects the other hitters but he is not the reason they won the World Series.

Eckstein has two rings with two different teams in two different leagues and he's still young. He provides the intangibles and fundamentals that rubs off on other players. He doesn't have the skill level as other shortstops but I would start a team with him any day if I wanted to build a winning team. Of course Jeter would be my first pick.

Pujols put game one out of reach with his 2 run HR. Next time they pitched to him with anyone on base was in game 3, and he had a double on a pitch a foot outside, 2nd and 3rd, game over when Edmonds got a big hit and both scored, and as it turned out, series over too. Is it Pujols' fault he never really got a pitch to hit the rest of the series?

Nothing wrong with Eckstein as a key player on a good team. But field a team with 9 Ecksteins and you'll get your ASS KICKED.

"Yeah, that first Patriots championship won on pure skill and talent...NOT"


Your right, they were so damn lucky they just went on to win 3 bowls in 4 years. They were about as lucky as Bradshaw and Co. Hey btw, how's your TALENTED steelers team doing? i think Ben (Wee) is QB.

DM, those Patriot wins are SOOOOO in the past.

What have they done for you lately?

BTW by how many TDs are the Pats gonna flatten the Colts this week?

What have they done for you lately?


Past? LOL. They are in serious contention is where they are now. Colts? Phew-- queef city.

Morneau AL MVP? Tom V. of SI makes a good case why he shouldn't have been. IMO, MVP was clearly Santana, 2nd choice was Mauer, who hit .460+ for the most important 6 weeks of the season that lifted the Twins from 4th to a dogfight for the best team in the League.

Santana was my pick as well. Truly remarkable year!

Derek Jeter deserved it without question.

Arod sucks.

Homeruns in April, strikeouts in October. A-rod's a choker in the end and that's what matters.

Some guy wrote the other day, "If Arod really DOES drive in 300 runs this season, will he STILL get booed the first time he strikes out in October?". Apparently he WILL get booed by the folks that believe that Adam Kennedy and Brian Doyle are the TRUE baseball legends. IDIOTS!

I'm praying to Buddha that A Rod thumbs his nose at the NY idiots who think he is a choker by exercising his option and rejoins Lou Pinella with the Cubs next year. Ramirez, A Rod, Derosa and Lee - pretty damn good infield.

"Homeruns in April, strikeouts in October. A-rod's a choker in the end and that's what matters."


The idiots in NY boo everyone they don't like-- who cares. Arod is a stud amongst a bunch of unicks. From what I see, what AROD does in Oct won't matter much, because the "team" has no business in the playoffs.

And what he does now is counting-- he's in my starting lineup! A steal at the 4th pick!

Arod is Mr. April and maybe Mr. May. Enjoy now, because in October he is Mr. Choker.

Instead of the Yankees flushing all of that money down the drain by getting him, wouldn't it have been a better idea to get some good pitching instead?

Mr. April, May, June, July, September, apparently:

career stats pre all-star break: .307, .387, .576

post all-star break: .305, .385, .578

.963 OPS exactly between the two halves of the season. I doubt there's ever been a player ALIVE that had exactly the same splits.

Arod is a LOCK for the following #'s: 3,500 hits, 750 HR's, 2000 RBI, 350 SB's, 2000 runs scored. Thrown in gold glove defense at the most difficult defensive position for more than half his career, and he's easily the greatest player to ever play the game.

He has a ways to go before I put him in the same sentence as Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle. If he retires ringless, then he doesnt even get a breath mention as the greatest of all time.

One thing I definately notice about Arod these days is that he looks huge compared to 3 years ago. Maybe it's just creatine, maybe more?

Show me an Arod fan and I will show you a guy who is a fantasy baseball fan....ie. Porker and DM.

The SS's of Mantle and Mays' era were lucky to get a half dozen HR's a year. Easy to take for granted power numbers from middle infielders today after Ripken broke the mold, but compared to the old days Arod's Babe Fuckin' Ruth on STEROIDS!

Re: Arod's size, he is indeed noticeably bigger this year. Reminds me of when I saw Roger Clemens last year preparing to start his grueling 3 month season and they interviewed him next to his son the minor leaguer. Clemens looked like KING KONG!

Speaking of Fat Boy Clemens, isn't it time for him to start hinting about picking a team?

Oh, and speaking of Porker's fantasy team, Cole Hamels 15 K's tonight and Rich Hill has allowed 1 run in 3 starts. Unfortunately, my team hits like Willie Mays Hays

Re: Hamels, in the tradition of Chuck Norris jokes:

http://colehamelsfacts.com/

An example: "Cole Hamels will win 1 Cy Young, AND 11 COLE HAMELS"

Of course, he's about due for his arm to fall off soon...

BTW, Arod (in 16 games) already has 8 more RBI than last year's world series MVP had ALL LAST SEASON in 500 ab's. If you had a 162 game season of 9 Arod's in the lineup egainst 9 Ecksteins, The Arod's would win about 150 of them.

But random success in a handful of games determines 'greatness'...

Arod is a great player and does get bashed unmercifully by the New York press (I can't think what would happen if he were in Philly.) but I'll wait to put him up on the "best ever" list. It's not that I do not think he has the tools, I just remember that 5 years ago I would have had Griffey on that list. He's fallen off the face of the earth due to injuries. That could happen to Rodriquez.

Oh, and if I were an owner, I'd want him on my team - fantasy or not. Of course, he wouldn't be getting the ridiculous salary he does currently. But I'd may sure he'd be one of the top paid players in the game.

EA

Here is a listing of the Series MVP's from 1955 to 2005. I can't find Arod's name anywhere here? There are many great ones listed and a few underachievers like Bucky Dent who came up big. Adam Kennedy and Brian Doyle didn't make it though.

1955 Johnny Podres Dodgers
1956 Don Larsen Yankees
1957 Lew Burdette Braves
1958 Bob Turley Yankees
1959 Larry Sherry Dodgers
1960 Bobby Richardson*Yankees
1961 Whitey Ford Yankees
1962 Ralph Terry Yankees
1963 Sandy Koufax Dodgers
1964 Bob Gibson Cardinals
1965 Sandy Koufax Dodgers
1966 Frank Robinson Orioles
1967 Bob Gibson Cardinals
1968 Mickey Lolich Tigers
1969 Donn Clendenon Mets
1970 Brooks Robinson Orioles
1971 Roberto ClementePirates
1972 Gene Tenace Athletics
1973 Reggie Jackson Athletics
1974 Rollie Fingers Athletics
1975 Pete Rose Reds
1976 Johnny Bench Reds
1977 Reggie Jackson Yankees
1978 Bucky Dent Yankees
1979 Willie Stargell Pirates
1980 Mike Schmidt Phillies
1981 Ron Cey, Pedro Guerrero, Steve Yeager Dodgers
1982 Darrell Porter Cardinals
1983 Rick Dempsey Orioles
1984 Alan Trammell Tigers
1985 Bret Saberhagen Royals
1986 Ray Knight Mets
1987 Frank Viola Twins
1988 Orel Hershiser Dodgers
1989 Dave Stewart Athletics
1990 Jose Rijo Reds
1991 Jack Morris Twins
1992 Pat Borders Blue Jays
1993 Paul Molitor Blue Jays
1994 No Series Players strike
1995 Tom Glavine Braves
1996 John Wetteland Yankees
1997 Livan Hernandez Marlins
1998 Scott Brosius Yankees
1999 Mariano Rivera Yankees
2000 Derek Jeter Yankees
2001 Randy Johnson, Curt Schilling Diamondbacks
2002 Troy Glaus Angels
2003 Josh Beckett Marlins
2004 Manny Ramirez Red Sox
2005 Jermaine Dye White Sox

Lancer,

What's your point? ANYONE can get hot in a 7 game series and win an MVP. It takes a STUD to do it over the course of a season - which Arod has done twice according to MLB.com.

Let's face, New Yorkers are never happy. I guess that's the joy of being a New Yorker!

EA

lancer doesn't have a point...


I guess all these guys are WAY over rated rather than being immortals...

ty cobb
ted williams
dam marino
john stockton/k. malone
barry sanders
charles barkley
dick butkus
kevin garnett

None of these guys won a ring and guess what-- who gives a crap? They were all amongst the greats of the time they played or, in some cases, one the all-time greats.

The big difference DM is that all of those athletes you mentioned never truly had teams complete enough to win a title. The only argument to that MIGHT be Stockton/Malone but they had to play in the Jordan era. Arod played on a Seattle team that was loaded and had the best talent in baseball for several years. In addition, he played on a couple Yankees teams with the highest payroll in the majors and at least one team had the talent to win a title.

blazers, there's always a footnote eh... yes, it's arod's fault the rainheads and the dolts in NY didn't win. For all the whining NY'ers and others do about his contract, perhaps they should go calculate how much MONEY the yanks have spent on pitchers the last 5 years and have gotten zip... regular season and post!

Here ye here ye, don't any of you Jeter hacks be a hater just because of his inferiority complex due to AROD. Jeter could at least fetch arod a couple gatoraides while watching him carry the team this spring...

Maybe the problem for Yankee fan bozos is that Arod will never match the legend of Scott Brosius.

The Seattle teams Arod was on had ONE starting pitcher worth a shit and a bullpen legendary for sucking ass at the worst possible time. A testament to the Yankees strong lineup last year was Chien-Ming Wang finishing 2nd in the AL Cy Young race despite not even breaking 100 K's. When THAT GUY is your ace, you ain't gonna win a GODDAMNED THING in the post-season.

My point is/was:

At the time the Yankees signed Arod, they had plenty of sticks and were in dire need of pitching.

This was in my original post years ago. It is there for the world to see.

The money they used to sign Arod would have been better spent on getting some quality pitching. The passing of the years have proved my point had merit. The Yankees were/are a fundamentally unsound team and the presence of another stick in the lineup didn't/doesn't make any difference.

Arod in big games for the Yankees, has come up very small in postseason play. There is no debating this one. That is unless you suffer from dugout vision.

Lancer, I wont' argue that just about EVERY team is better investing in arms rather than sticks as you put it, but the yanks are where they are because they made the wrong choices (vs. no choice) when it comes to pitching. They have spent plenty on pitching is my point, they just all suck. For your premise to be worthy of consideration, then there would need to be evidence that by signing arod, they didn't sign a particular pitcher due to salary... I don't think that's the case.

Don't forget that Greg Maddox commercial from a few years ago - "Chicks dig the long ball." What's going to put more butts in the seats, strikeouts or home runs? Once you figure that question out you'll know why teams like the Yankees overspend on hitting.

There is also the theory - particularly bandied about among those statistics nuts that play fantasy baseball - that there are too many teams and therefore a shortage of good pitching. I don't know if that is the case as there are quality pitchers in MLB today. However, one can make the argument that other sports, particularly basketball and football, have taken away quality athletes who would strengthen major league pitching.

EA

Jose Reyes hitting .353 and just stole his 18th base with obp+slg over 1000? WOW! Dude's a 23 year old Rickey Henderson playing SS?

On pace: 246 hits, 174 runs, 112 RBI, 12 HR, 104 BB, 104 SB.

Arod on pace (before tonight's 2+ rbi game): 246 hits, 90 HR, 220 RBI

Porker, numbers only lie. Arod is a worthless scab. Haven't you heard the New Yorkers and club hombre pros yet?

Chipper is lighting it up over in the NL as well.

I think Prince Fielder is a .280 hitter. Of course, I have been saying that for over a year now. Still, he has a lot of pop, don't know if he can hold up hitting HRs at this pace for the whole season.

Clemens back with the Yanks. Who didn't see this coming?

According to an AP article, "Clemens agreed to a minor league contract and most likely will join the Yankees after several weeks getting into shape."

This should send the BoSox fans into a higher state of agitation!!

EA

EA-- Roger is a washed up old man. We'll pummel him and make him wish he was back in astro land.

Explorer-- wow a .280 hitter with a little pop @ 1ST-- now that's something to get excited about.

DM,

I've been thinking that for the last 5 years and somehow that "washed up old man" keeps getting it done. While I'm inclined to agree, I won't put any money on it!

EA

(Message edited by el_apodo on May 06, 2007)

I believe Clemens had a 2.30 ERA last year and a 1.87 ERA the year before and finished third in the CY Young voting in 2005. If that's washed up, then what do you consider great?

Clemens is far from washed up (although he's been a 6 inning MAXIMUM pitcher in the NL), but it will be a much bigger feat posting those numbers in the American League with no pitcher to blow away the first two times through the lineup. At least he won't have to face his own lineup. But I'm with DM about Clemens not scaring the Red Sox.

What the Red Sox should be worried about, though, is that Dice-K and Beckett don't scare the Yankees.

Does that mean the Hall of Fame has to give him back his painted socks so he can awe the fans once again ??

I'm with DM on this one. Yet another AARP pitcher signed by the Yankees. Will they never learn ??

I hear Orel Hersheiser is planning a comeback. Would be a perfect pick up for the Bronxs Bummers.

El-ap-- well my post was part belief and part hope as I'm a sox fan. Rog is one of my ole favs, but he's done. Putting good #s together in the NL a couple years ago wasn't all that hard (his division sucked big time) and even with him @ 60-75% of his former self. AL is a little different story and pitchers fall apart fast at this age.

Pork- perhaps slice-k and bucket don't scare the yanks, but they are posting wins vs them and thats all that counts

KM-- I find it amazing that the morons ridicule arod as being "overpaid" @ 25 mill/yr when the yanks are willing to pay a washed up pitcher/s 28/mill for at best 3/4 the season. No they won't learn, and they deserve every ounce of misery they get.

KM, it's Prior and Wood that are washed up. Dusty Baker ran them into the ground and then ran over them with the groundskeeper's cart!

DM, W's because some rookie clown's giving up 4 HR's in a row! What the hell was up with that? I was on the phone with the sound muted, and I thought I was watching replays! When I found out it was back2back2back2back, it was like HOLY SHIT!

Porker not really sure how you can blame Woods and Priors problems on Dusty Baker. Who can really say where their problems stem, but if Woods problems is due to mechanics as many say, Baker was not the pitching coach. Prior who knows, was it the shot in the elbow he took? Maybe I cannot say. Woods is done, maybe this latest surgery will save Prior but I ain’t holding my breath.

The way Lilly, Hill, and Maquis are pitching, though, who cares (and Guzman looked pretty good yesterday). The short relief still makes me nervous but Soriano is starting to earn his pay, D. Lee is one of the best hitters in the league... I am feeling pretty good these days (not to mention still reeling from yesterday’s game)

"The way Lilly, Hill, and Maquis are pitching, though, who cares"


Well, anyone that can remember they are still Lilly and Marquis... They are 3-5 spot pitchers at best. Now Hill on the other hand looks like the real deal!

It's still really early but Marquis may be stepping up to the next level this year. Seven solid starts and threw a three hit shutout last night.

(Be nice I was born and raised in Chicago so May optimism is close to a religion for me)

So who has more angst in their lives, Cubs' fans or Red Sox fans?

A simple question from a fan of the team with the WORST organization in baseball.

EA

Come on, NOBODY'S a Washington Expos fan!

Okay, the worst organization in the American League!

EA

Letting them throw OBSCENE pitch counts goes directly back to the MANAGER, an attitude of "RUB SOME DIRT ON IT" towards injuries to 100 million dollar arms and the organization throwing them back into action after what anyone else would call a rather chronic series of injuries has resulted in Wood and Prior being chewed up and spit out. It's my belief that ANY pitcher that can go their entire career without a major arm injury these days is a complete freak of nature, but Wood and Prior are looking like they will NEVER be the same again, and that's all the Cubs fault, IMO.

Re: Marquis, he's off to a fantastic start under any standard. Lilly's always been good, but inconsistent and injury prone. He also had some strange home/road splits if I remember correctly. I have a vested interest in Rich Hill as I got him cheap in this year's fantasy draft and he's carrying my pitching. If Mark Loretta and Jacque Jones hit well this year, the Cubs would be a pretty good team with a 60+ year old Rick Reuschel (how fat would that guy be by NOW?) on the mound, as Soriano, Lee and Aramis can REALLY hit.

If only the Washington Nationals would pay Arod a bajillion dollars it would solve all of their problems and they would win many world series. Just ask the Yankees.

There was an interesting article on Yahoo Sports yesterday about Dr. Mike Marshall and his approach to pitching. Marshall is a former Cy Young Award winner who earned his medical degree later on. Apparently, Marshall claims that if pitchers would use his techniques, it would be an end to arm injuries as we know them. Of course, MLB thinks he's a pariah. Yahoo also have a video up of a former MLB pitcher using Marshall's technique. Seems to be a lot of controversy around Marshall, both in and out of baseball. Interesting stuff though!

Mike Marshall is not a MD, he got his a Ph.D. in kinesiology. I will never forget 1974 with the Dodgers, Cy Young award and pitched in 2/3 of their games. MLB considered him a pariah back then, he has probably not mellowed with age. While not as nutty as Bill "the spaceman" Lee, he was not your typical player.
CG

CG,

You're correct regarding the PhD in kinesiology. That's what I get for trying to remember what I read instead of looking it up again.

EA

If I recall correctly, Marshall pitched in 104 games one year, and completely broke down the next year.

Close but no cigar.

In 1974, Marshall appeared in 106 games but only 57 in 1975. However, games played is a bit of a misleading statistic in his case as he was primarily used as a closer. Between 1971 and 1976, Marshall's inning's pitched were 111.3, 116.0, 179.0, 208.3, 109.3 and 99.3. He did drop off to a mere 41.7 innings pitched in 1977, but jumped back up to 99.0 and 142.7 in 78 and 79. That's an average of 123.3 innings pitched per year for 8 years. He was the Cy Young winner in 1974, runner-up in '73, placed 4th in '72 and 5th in '78. And that's just the middle of his career, which as it turns out was not a bad one! Oh year, in '74 he had 15 wins AND 21 saves! Don't think we'll see that this year!!

Here's the link to check out his stats

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/marshmi01.shtml

EA

While Explorer overhyped the guy last year, Prince Fielder's a pretty damned good major league hitter already, and at a very young age. Too bad nobody gets impressed anymore until you hit 50+ HR's or approach 500 for a career.

His buddy JJ Hardy is hitting even better right now, though, and pretty much came out of NOWHERE. I wish I had that fucker on my fantasy team!

Actually nobody overhyped him more than I did last year when I drafted him in my fantasy league. Check my post about him last April.

What has happened to A-Rod! He sure is a great leader for the Yankees! Who ever said he is Mr. April was right!

It looks like signing Clemens was a HUGE mistake for the Yankees moral! Even spoiled, overpriced millionares are jealous deep inside that Clemens is getting such special treatment and a huge salary after playing head games with who he was going to sign with. The Yankee players deep down inside now know for sure that there is no team concept with the Yankees. The Boss has always just BOUGHT the best talent on the market and has never really won anything.....has just BOUGHT Championships!

So, how many home runs and RBI do you think Arod will end up with this year? 50 and 150? That's still behind the pace he's on. 5 homers in a "bad" month (the beloved Jeter has THREE for the WHOLE FUCKING SEASON) shows just how ridiculous expectations for that guy are. Anybody criticizing him is fucking moron. AGAIN, the guy's a fucking LOCK for 3500 hits and 700 HR's and would STILL be a Gold Glove SS if Jeter wasn't a fucking crybaby who refused to change positions.

Re: Steinbrenner buying "championships", he didn't buy SHIT for a span of 15 years. The glorious DON MATTINGLY era. Anybody that thinks Arod is some sort of "loser" better fucking reconcile their feelings that Mattingly was somehow a (very, very wimpy hitting) "stud".

BTW, is it amazing that Prince Fielder finished SEVENTH in NL R.O.Y. voting last year? A lot of times the WINNER of that award ends up being a total JOKE, but Fielder had a pretty damned good year and finished SEVENTH.

Lance Berkman, he of the .550+ lifetime slugging %, has ONE double so far this year. ONE! Next time anyone rags on Arod, think of the "mere mortals" among SUPERSTARS and realize that, GEE, sometimes they go through rough periods too?

Yeah - A-Rod is ging through a rough period. Cheating on his wife and cheating on the field! Even his own team didn't back him!

The Yankees didn't quite know what to think.

"I wasn't sure that was allowed," outfielder Johnny Damon said. "If it is, maybe we'll keep on doing it."

Rodriguez has been in the middle of an unusual, on-field dispute before. In Game 6 of the 2004 AL championship series, he slapped the ball from Boston pitcher Bronson Arroyo's glove, and was called out for interference.

You can qoute all the statistics you want......but where are those statistics when the Yankees need them in the the Post season or in their slumps. I'm sure 99% of the players playing the game and who have played the game would trade Jeter's statistics for A-rod's.....the ones that really count in the long run. Worlds Championship rings and Post season stastistics that made the difference in the Yankees getting those rings

Fair are not.... the greats are remembered about what they did in the Post season.

Look at Ernie Banks....outside of Chicago I doubt most modern day fans could tell you who he was.....and in his time he was one of the greatest statical players of his time. Do you think Reggie Jackson would be rembered as a great player.....if he put up the same Post Season statistics that A-rod has?

I, for one, would take Ernie Banks or Alex Rodriguez over a showboat like Reggie Jackson any day of the week. But then again, I expect players to be merely mortal not perfect.

I can't understand why Yankee fans continue to pile on Arod for this team's woes. What about your boy Jason "Steroid Poster Boy" Giambi? Why not pile on Clemens for being unable to win an A-ball game? Let's face it, a mega maniacal owner who feels like he can buy a championship every year and a GM who is at best known for making mediocre deals are the root of the current problems in New York. Remember this game canonizes people who FAIL 6 out of 10 times at the plate.

I hope Arod leaves the Yankees, gives up the big contract, signs for the major league minimum with a truly shitty team (the Royals or Senators come to mind) and helps lead them to the promised land. Something like that would make the current incessant whining of Yankees fans sound like a gentle breeze through a pine forest.

EA

A-rod leading a shitty team to the promise land! Like he did with the Rangers. All A-rod has done is taken the Yankees from the promise land to last place with he attitude and lack of leadership.

The guy is selfish....just ask his wife. Who is the blonde chick he is flying on road trips to party late with at the strip clubs!

Spoken like a true fan of the game Beachman. You know your stuff (this is sarcasm if it doesn't come across as such.) However, you still haven't enlightened me on why AROD ONLY is responsible for the demise of the Yankees?

And why do Yankee fans care about his personal life? Hell if I were a major league player, I'd have a big-titted blonde in EVERY town. On this board of all places we should celebrate the fact that he's a monger at heart!!

EA

Re: Arod's contract, I wonder how many dickhead Yankee fans realize that Steinbrenner's paying at LEAST 3 other guys on this year's team more than he's paying Arod. And for every cent he's paying Abreu (yet another example of a major league "star" not deserving of sniffing Arod's FARTS) is a huge reason why that team sucks right now.

Prince Fielder .... now where have I heard that name before?

Check out this article on baseball's most over-paid and under-paid players. Funny, there are two Yanks on the list of over-paid but NONE named Rodriquez.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-contracts052907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

EA

(Message edited by el_apodo on June 01, 2007)

Jeter's 2 errors blow open a close game to the Red Sox. Jeter on pace for 35 errors this year. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Of course, somehow that's GOTTA BE Arod's fault...

Porker you must be mistaken. After all, Jeter is a god. It MUST have been Arod channeling bad vibes and adulterous thoughts that caused the errors. I can tell that you are not a true Yankees fan!

EA

A pop fly in the Brewers-Cubs game just dropped on the mound for a "hit". I blame Arod.

News Flash!

The blonde that A-rod has spotted with in at least 5 different Major League cities has been identified as a man wearing a blonde wig! It is only known that the man goes by the alias "Porker" and worships the ground and bed that A-Rod walks and sleeps on! A-Rod knows who will give him the loving he needs when then the World turns against him! Who will get him "UP" when he is feeling down!

Re: Fielder, Miguel Cabrera is a year older. And has 721 hits, 115 HR, 443 rbi. Fielder? 233, 49, 135. Cabrera a bad 3B, Prince a bad 1B.

Beachman, you're an odd fuck, aren't you?

Arod pace: 64 HR, 167 RBI.

He sucks...

BTW, nice of Clemens to delay his season start to avoid the Red Sox, then the White Sox, so he could match up against: THE PIRATES! BINGO!

Wow, Detroit's Justin Verlander pitches a no-hitter against Milwaukee. One has to feel bad for Curt Schilling last week.

NL getting reamed AGAIN in interleague play. A sampling of lucky loser DH's/spare parts plugged in due to DH's might provide a clue as to why: Ryan Langerhans, Julio Franco, So Taguchi, Tony Graffanino... What a sad lot of shitheels.

I don't get it -- NL teams load up on 13 (THIRTEEN!) pitchers when entering a series with a doubleheader looming, but can't call up a Jack Cust type for a series where they need a DH? No wonder they get their asses kicked.

Let's put this reaming into perspective - the ROYALS are 7 - 3 in inter-league play. That's just ugly.

Although I don't consider myself a purist (I actually kind of like the DH and couldn't give a shit about astroturf), I can not stand inter-league play. GET RID OF IT! Inter-league play is inherently unfair unless everyone plays everyone. Plus it takes away something from the World Series. Just my opinion, of course yours is wrong!!

EA

I don't know if I am purist, but I don't like the DH.

As for inter-league play, the main purpose was so the major market teams could play each other during the season (big crowds, and big TV ratings). As a Cubs fan, I like getting to play the White Sox a couple series a year.

Anti-DH people crack me up. There is NOTHING more pathetic in the sport than watching a pitcher hit! Can anyone honestly tell me they would prefer to watch a pitcher hit than Fat Frank Thomas or David Ortiz? Or maybe they get their yucks from watching Thomas and Ortiz drag their fat asses out into the field?

The problem with the DH is that it really takes away managerial strategy. That's why the best manager's in the game are normally found in the NL. Double switches, pinch hitting, etc are virtually unheard of in the AL. Guys like Joe Torre will end up in the HOF for doing nothing but bring out the lineup card at the beginning of the game.

blazers, I love ya, but that notion is moronic.

Porker glad I could crack you up, it’s the least I can do for someone who recognizes that A-Rod is a great ballplayer. The DH thing just comes down to different ways to enjoy the game. You like the added offense. I prefer the different strategies that having a pitcher in the lineup involves.

So, again (in case you missed it), do you guys LIKE watching pitchers hit?

I forget who said it, (Lou Piniella???), but about 10 years back there was a great quote about the 'strategy' involved in managing without the DH: "Oh yeah, that double switch stuff is just soooo challenging!"

As far as the "best managers being in the NL", forgive me for ROFL! Who exactly are you referring to? Larussa? Grady Little? Bochy? Willie "I got a .500 team with half a dozen hall of famers" Randolph? Give me a fucking break!

Or maybe you're referring to Clint "the rocket scientist" Hurdle or Phil Garner?

Blazers, when's your football draft?

In a word yes, to me it's part of the game. Would I rather watch a power hitter on a tear, of course. Do you even need to ask?

I am not on the same page as Blazers, I don’t think it takes some MIT grad to manage in the NL. I just think there are different decisions that need to be made in the NL. that make it interesting to me. A manager in the AL never needs to decide in the 7th if he should pull a pitcher that is going strong because he is down by one and has a man in scoring position (bunt, swing away, pinch hit?). I like to see what the decision will be, and if it works out.

I love baseball and have conflicting opinions about the DH. My strong opinion though is that the leagues should be the same - either both have the DH or neither do.

I don't care to see pitchers hit, but the strategy is to leave in or pull a starter who is maybe in sixth inning and pitching well, but the team is down a run or two and there are a couple of guys on base. You need a hit in that situation but the pitcher is having a great game. Tough decision. Also, managing the bench - a good pinch hitter gets an at-bat every game almost, but when to use which pinch hitter? The NL is a bit more interesting from a strategy standpoint but as far as double-switches go, that isn't rocket science at all.

The AL is easier but the bench guys can get lonely sitting there day after day. But, the DH lets a lot of older guys and great hitters who can't man the field any more extend their careers. Plus, just more offence in general.

Ask pitchers and I think most would prefer pitching to another shitty hitting pitcher a couple or three times a game than a mashing DH, even if they have to strike out or bunt a couple or three times a game themselves. They also get yanked a bit earlier than in the AL which can hurt their win-loss but I think it also preserves their arms a bit more.

Again, nobody wants to see a pitcher hit but putting in the DH takes away nearly ALL of the strategy of the managers. I would say that Mike Scoscia is the exception in the AL as far as a great manager is concerned, he would be a great manager in either league. Joe Torre is merely a guy who scribbles in a lineup made up of guys who make 8 figure salaries.

As for Porker, I have won my fantasy baseball league 6 of the last 9 years, so yeah, I do know what the fuck I am talking about. Cat was the only guy who made a proper response, the rest of you guys just spewed nonsense.

Your opinions about what "people" want to see leads me to the conclusion you drank a few to many Tecate's in TJ. As usual, you've been schooled by Porker when it comes to sports... I suggest you retreat now while, before you look like just another washed up high school athelete thinking they know something about pro sports...

Who is setting up this years fantasy draft?

I like the National League rules better. I have no problem with the two leagues having different rules, as it does give great hitters a chance to lenghen their careers, and it puts butts in the seats.

If nothing else it gives us stuff to discuss and that keeps an interest in the game. I am sure this same discussion is being hashed out on message boards all over the net.

Blazers, can I be in your league?

DM, people are entitled to their opinions, but, again, I have never met ANYBODY that likes watching pitchers bat. When it comes right down to it, that's got to be the most important thing.

Oh, and re: the dumbasses against the geniuses, looks like the AL guys are beating the snot out of the "brainy" types in the other league. Coincidence?

"Mr. April" just hit his 7th HR in the 9th inning in the first half of this year to bring his team into a tie in the 9th.

60-160, write it down.

That Jeter guy on pace for 11 HR, 82 RBI. WOW!

Yeah he really sucks! Hey, who's Yankee fan been bitching about since they've been winning a few games? You know win or lose, Yankee fan HAS to bitch!!

EA

Joe Mauer is a helluva catcher. I only saw Bench when he was old and slowing down, and Fisk and Simmons when they were also on the downslide. That leaves Irod/(Piazza???) as the default.

That said, Joe Mauer is easily the best catcher I have ever seen. Legit .330 average, and he will easily develop 25+ HR power when he learns to pull the ball. He threw out Hanley Ramirez today, and I bet there aren't 10 catchers in the next 3 years that do that. If this guy's knees hold up, he's gonna make all other catchers look like CLOWNS!

Fat Frank gets # 500, Biggio 3K hits. What, nobody could win their 300 game today to make it a trifecta? I'm SOOOO disappointed!

With the all-star came looming, looks like it'll be the end of July before Glavine gets his. Arod might have 500 HR's by then!

Would someone Pleeeez take the Houston Astros!
A friggin high school team could whip their sorry asses! You can bet Biggio is now on the way out, they have used him just about up, even delaying playing him in order to sell more seats (it worked: 3 sold-out days/nights) Great player tho.
Clemens: doesn't know when to leave the party!

I understand this Prince Fielder fellow is somehow connected to next week's All Star game. I vaguely recall mentioning him to you guys early last year, but I was told that he was a bum.

A BUM? Nobody EVER said anything of the sort.

Now that Barry Bonds has tied and will soon break the major league all-time homerun record, isn't it time cynical, skeptical baseball fans should start giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Face facts. You are innocent until proven guilty.

Bonds has never tested positive for illegal body building drugs, and says he's never knowingly used them.

We must all assume, then, that Bonds peaked naturally after the age of 35. His head size did grow two hat sizes, which has been scientifically proven to only occur after the age of 25 due to a rare pituitary disorder or injecting massive amounts of human growth hormone.

Bonds obviously is a sick man with a rare pituitary disorder, which makes his feat all the more astounding. I say, hats off to Barry Bonds--a sports hero, a legend, a role model. Let's all celebrate with him...

Forget about giving him the benefit of the doubt. He's guilty. The ability to prove that in a court of law is obviously compromised by the fact that he can't now be tested for a substance he took years ago that was not detectable then, and with the smoking gun witness obviously accepting his hush money to sit it out in jail refusing to testify. I trust Barry is discreetly gathering the cash now to pay him when they finally let him out.

Having said that, I've stopped swimming upstream against his greatness. Steroids aside, he was clearly one of the greatest of all time. Having achieved this number of home runs when opposing pitchers have walked him something like the equivalent of 5 full seasons of ABs is an astonishing accomplishment.

He also competed against steroid pumping pitchers. As pointed out, Aaron did not. Ruth played only against white guys, faced horrible relief pitchers and ragged armed starters going late into games before the era of quality hard throwing relief pitchers began, and was swinging at the short right field porch in Yankee Stadium.

Variables aside and with the understanding that MLB can only use total homers hit to measure the greatest of home run hitters, IMO the greatest home run hitters are actually measured by the statistic of home runs vs. at bats. Though we can commend the longevity of Aaron and Bonds, Ruth was a tremendously more prolific home run hitter in terms of that statistic. I don't know if he's the most prolific of all time among players with lets say at least 7,000 career at bats (roughly 15 full seasons), but among the current top 3 in career totals, he's way ahead.

I grew up a NY Met fan after the Giants moved to SF, but IMO the greatest player of all time was Willie Mays. You had to have seen him play to understand. His statistics impressive as they are, don't begin to tell the story.

(Message edited by erip on August 05, 2007)

What is sad that, while always a bit of an asshole, pre-steroids he was already either the best or on a very short list of the best players of the 90s. He would have hit well over 500 home runs and would have been a sure-fire hall of famer. Now, that's all thrown out. He may get into the hall of fame, but I doubt it. He cheated, and may still be cheating today. And, he turned from a minor asshole to a major asshole. Having a big record such as the homerun crown held by a completely unpleasent, spiteful, cheating druggie is horrible. I hate A-Rod but maybe in 10 years he can at least wipe Bonds out of the top spot.

To bad Griffey's been injured a good portion of the last six years. He could have been right behind Bonds and with more years to play could have the crown as well.

This may be a real amateur's question, but I have wondered about this for awhile and thought someone out there could answer it for me.

Statistically, right handers hit better against left handers, and vice versa. Given the majority of hitters are right-handed, why would a team seek out left-handed starters (we'll forget about Sandy Koufax and those of his quality for the moment)? It may make sense for a short reliever, e.g., bringing in a left hander in a critical situation when a left hander is batting) but I can't see a good rationale for a left-handed starting pitcher, all other things being equal.

Can someone enlighten me?

1. To get out left handers.
2. To change timing, swing, setup of all batters.
3. Good lefty starters are better than mediocre righty starters.

Not having a lefty starter is not a good situation but not killer, happens all the time and many rotations haven't had quality lefty starters in years. But, without a couple of good lefties in the bullpen you're basically screwed over the long run.

Generally speaking you put your best five starters out there regardless of throwing arm.

Cat: I'm not sure I buy the reasons you give (although I readily admit I may be wrong).

(1) Sure, left handers are more effective at getting out left handers, but the majority of hitters a starter is going to face are almost always right-handed, so this is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

(2) Before I posted my question, I considered the timing, etc., explanation as the only reasonable one that came to mind, but decided it probably doesn't work too well as applied to starting pitchers. Although I suppose if a righty pitched the day before, starting with a lefty the next day could throw off a team's timing, etc. to a small extent, I would expect the batters to adjust very quickly to this change that occurred over a period of perhaps 20 hours. I would expect this factor to play a bigger role with relievers, i.e., you had a righty in innings 1 through 8, and now you're facing a lefty.

(3) Of course good lefty starters are better than mediocre righty starters, but only 10 percent of the population (probably at most) are lefties. More than 10 percent of starting pitchers are lefties, unless I am way off in my recollections. Everything that I know about right-handedness versus left-handedness (and admittedly I don't know everything relevant to this issue) suggests that left handers at best would on average be equal in sports abilities to right handers. One would therefore be hard-pressed to explain the over-representation of left handed starting pitchers in terms of "good lefty starters are better than mediocre righty starters."

(4) "Generally speaking you put your best five starters out there regardless of throwing arm."
Yeah, but if one or two of them is left-handed, that begs the question why your team has more left handed starting pitchers (percentage wise) than exists in the general population. The answer, I suspect, is the team is actively seeking left handers and puts a premium on finding them (even if there are right-handers with comparable pitching abilities). This gets back to my original question of why.

It would be interesting to compare the aggregate ERAs and win/loss percentages for right-handed and left-handed starting pitchers. Also of interest (and I suspect this statistic exists) would be the average batting averages of major league players when they face pitchers from the same side, and from the other side.

Any comments?

The greatest advantage pitcing has is left handed pitcher vs left handed hitter...right handed pitchers generally have better sucess against right handed hitter but nowhere near the dominance of lefty vs lefty.

Bonds would be a HOF with or without the roids, and will without a doubt be a HOFer...maybe some folks will not vote for him on the first ballot to make a statement, but there is no keeping him out of the hall.

Agree with all of Sampson's comments. Bonds is certain for the HOF if not on the first ballot. They may as well tear down the HOF if they have a notion to keep excluding the greatest of the great of our time because they are assholes. But Rose broke the most time honored rule pertaining to the integrity of the game and does everything wrong trying to get himself reinstated.

It is true that right handed pitchers lose much of the natural advantage over righty batters for no other reason that the hitters get totally accustomed to righty pitchers by the time they get to the majors. Southpaws are exotic in the lower leages and the left hand batters don't see them enough to extinguish the advantage.

Southpaws also slow down the other team's running game. They hold runners on first base better than righties - don't have to look over their shoulders and are less distracted. They also move fleet footed switch hitters to the right side which cuts down on infield hits.

Rewind to Bonds...I saw a clip last night of rookie Tom Glavine hitting young Bonds with a pitch. I was astonished by how small Bonds was top to bottom. He looked more like Jose Reyes than Jim Thome. As for Glavine, I had forgotten that he was ever young.

Thanks guys. The question I posted goes in the category of "I always wondered" but never, until now, got around to finding an answer.

Everything Erips says is true but he forgot the common wisdom that lefties get more movement on their pitches. Why this is, no-one seems to know.

They fall off the mound towards first base which helps fill the hole in the infield caused by the first baseman covering the bag with a man on.

Also, while there are far more right handed hitters, many teams are seriously vested in having quality left handed hitting because of the advantage over righties. So neutralizing that advantage is valuable. Lefties tend to have a harder time against left handed pitching than righty vs. righty.

Lefties fall off towards third base, not first.

Adrián Béltre...not a bad year for all you haters...

Mike Stinkin' Lowell is eating his lunch, though, and surely went MUCH later in a draft.

Jesus, DM, Beltre's OPS .825, which is nothing special. Nice RBI count, but anybody can do that hitting behind Ichiro. Ibanez drove in 120 last year himself.

pork, lowell is having a shocker of a year. That doesn't negate the fact that beltre is having a very solid season. Like I said last year when he was being bashed to hell-- he is a solid player and will become more consistent both with time and on the right team.

Arod got a wake up call with the MRI on his ankle today: Got scared he was running out of time to hit 50 bombs this year, so he hit two in an inning to all but wrap up a playoff berth.

who? ohh Arod that OVERPRICED Choker (LOL). Ohhh by the way, how's that 26 mill rog? How much did Moose make this year.. hrmm how much is that per pitch?

All you bitches should bow down to hot rod. The wraith of gods can be nasty.

Ohh I can't wait for Arod to overtake Bond's HR record.

Arod is Mr. April and maybe Mr. May.

Mr. April just hit his 7th HR in September in his 7th game.

Oh, but these games don't count, right?

Dice K bludgeoned by a pathetic playing out the string (1-9 last 10 games) Orioles lineup filled with minor league lifers. The same Orioles team that has 1 hit in 12 innings in the last 10 days against Clay Buchholz, the guy the Red Sox can't seem to fit into their rotation and are probably gonna shut down on an innings cap long before the playoffs even come.


Dice K's 4th horrid outing in 5 starts. I guess pitching every 5th day is too tough afterall, huh? Poor 117 million dollar baby.

Beckett has allowed 30 hits in 3 crappy starts against the Yankees this year too. If they wanna win ANYTHING this year, they better hope they don't have to face New York, or it's gonna get ugly.

No comment.

Dice is a rook, I don't wanna pass judgement on him just yet. I'll wait to the playoff for that. However, I can't think of a player who got so much, still in their prime, who did so little, and people still think he's great. At least here in Boston...

Explorer and Blazers' favorite Prince F. hit # 50 tonight. AT AGE 22!!! One of the top 5 OMG stats of all time. But why do I get the feeling that he's gonna eat his way out of pro sports in the next couple of years? He's 270+ already...

BTW, ARod over 150 ribbies. I wouldn't bet he's the best defensive SS in baseball anymore, though: Troy Tulowitzki has wicked defensive stats in Colorado. Too bad he can't hit outside of Coors.

BTW, Arod has 2x Jeter's RBI total this year. Real man vs. Little girl anecdote # 177 throughout their careers.

agreed-- quite a year by prince!

Tulo's numbers at Coors are definitely much better than on the road but "Can't hit outside Coors" is a bit of an overstatement. If not for the absurd offensive numbers by Braun the guy is without question Rookie of the Year and, imo, should win it. Despite Holiday's numbers I would rather see Tulo at the plate in the clutch than anyone else on the Rox. Defensively the kid is unbelievable; there are not enough accolades to describe what he can do.

This run by the Rox has been amazing and the National League race is mind-boggling right now. Four games to go and not one team has clinched. The Mets collapse while the Phils come on strong, the Rockies win 10 in a row and stop a 7 game streak by the Padres, and will play three against the D-Backs with at worst a chance to tie for the division. SD plays the Brew crew with both teams fighting for a spot, and who knows what is going on with the Cubs in FL, but if they blow it I may hang myself. There will be baseball on Monday and who knows, things may not be decided until Tuesday night. Whatever you think about the strength of National league teams vs. American League teams you cannot say this isn’t going to be one heck of a weekend if you are a baseball fan.

Uhm, Tulowitzki hitting .330 with a .962 OPS at home, .257, .721 OPS on the road. Those road #'s are like a POOR MAN'S JACK WILSON.

He really does play the hell out of SS, though.

Now 3 days to go and not team has clinched even a playoff spot...AZ with a win tonight can guarantee at least a tie for the wild card..Colorado has ran off 11 straight and finishing the last three at home with AZ...the most exciting finish I can remember...If NYM blows the division and the Wild Card too, they may be once again called "The Amazing Mets".

Glavine yanked IN THE FIRST INNING? I realize his error didn't help things, but what exactly is there to be gained by taking out a HOF'er 300 game winner in your life or death game?

Unbelievable collapse by the M-E-T-S.

BTW, this "Diamondbacks clinch division title because they have 10-8 record vs. Padres" NFL-style tiebreaking is bullshit, IMO. The playoff games for division titles were some of the greatest baseball games I have ever seen (Bucky Dent, Randy Johnson destroying the Angels in '95), and the teams should have the chance to play it out.

When the Mariners and Angels played an extra game at the end of the 1995 season (for the AL Western Division Title) it was because they were tied with identical records. The Yankees, who has a better won/loss record than both these west-coast teams, had secured the 1995 wild-card spot for the AL.

If the same thing happened today, under current rules, there would still be a one-day playoff for the Western Division crown.

The Mets just lost 8-1 against the Marlins - which has several playoff scenario implications.

No team from the east (neither the Mets nor the Phillies) can be involved in a wild-card playoff. So even if ties remain (for the W/C or east division title) they will be resolved with single game playoffs tomorrow.

Well why in hell was Arizona declared division champs last night with a magic # of 1 (clinched tie only)? Had San Diego won today, they would have tied for the Western Division title, yet Arizona was already declared the champ, based on 10-8 season series record. That's a stupid rule, IMO.

Doesn't matter, though, still get a playoff!

If San Diego had won they would have tied Arizona if Arizona lost. In that case, since both teams would be going to the playoffs - after the Mets lost - then instead of a playoff to determine which team would be the wild card, the team with the better head to head is the division winner, the other the wild card.

Had the Mets won today, then Arizona and San Diego would have played tomorrow, with the winner being the division champ. Then, the loser, Colorado and New York would have done a round-robin three-way playoff for the wild card slot.

Go red sox! NL sucks just like the NFC.

IF the REDSOX get by the the ANGELS, which is a big IF, You better hope they dont get the YANKEES the way thier playing now! Period

I'll start an "A-Rod's choking again" special column before the first game. That way we can track his number of strikeouts, hit into double plays, runners left on, you know all the usual A-Rod playoff statistics.

Your all wasting your time .

It's the year of the Cubbies !

I will admit that as a diehard Cub's fan I say that every year.

However, this year is different !!!
(I say that every year as well)

cat, i love ya, but that post is pathetic given the yanks wouldn't be where they are without him. Period. The haters can lick his ass... no they aren't worthy.

DM,

No doubt, A-Rod got them to the playoffs. Also, no doubt, once there, "Mr April" will surely go 3 for 28 with 7 strikeouts, zero RBIs and 21 men left on base.

Maybe this year will be different from all the others.

Hey you stole my line about the Cubs!

Wonder which will happen first . Cubs win the World Series or A Rod series MVP ??

Wait a minute . Next year A Rod Series MVP with the Cubs !!

Yeah That's the ticket !

Derek Jeter career stats in 7 AL Championship series: .262 batting avg, 5 HR 20 RBI in 41 games. .339 OBP, .405 slugging %.

A Rod in 3 AL Championship series: .315 batting avg., 4 HR 10 RBI in 14 games, .413 OBP, .611 slugging %. Mr. April MY ASS!

Jeter's World Series #'s are about his career regular season averages. Arod has never played in a World Series due to the Yankees monumental collapse in '04.

Arod was horrible in the 1st round of the playoffs the last two years, but people have really short fucking memories calling him Mr. April. IDIOCY!

Why don't you all go back to picking on Barry Bonds? Oh, and never, ever let Tom Glavine or Trevor Hoffman in the Hall of Fame after they monumentally choked the last weekend of the season...

C’mon Khun_mor do you really want to see the Cubs drop that kind of coin on one player? And Ramirez is working out just fine (granted he ain't in the same league as A-Rod)

The Cubs are looking solid going into the NLDS. Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez are ready to play. Z and Lily will take care of business and when Hill gets an extra day rest he has been on top of his game. Cubs in 4. Rox in 5. I do kind of want to see the Phillies, but I already have great seats for the NLDS games in CO, plus the Cubs played the Rox much tougher than the Phils this season.

Seriously, this is the Cubs year; Lou doesn’t care about no goat.

Trever Hoffman chokes twice in one week and the Padres go home. The Rox pull one of the most amazing streaks ever; winning 14 of 15 to steal the wildcard after scoring 3 runs in the bottom of the 13th. It's a crime if Holiday doesn't get MVP and Tulo Rookie of the Year after that game. Braun and Prince look great on paper, but they are both sitting at home this week. (yes you could point out that it might not have gone 13 if Holiday hadn’t blown that play in left field, but...)

Hoffman is that last person I would want closing out games at this point. I know he is the all-time saves leader, but he has had a habit of choking in big game save opportunities the last couple of years. Remember the All-star games last year?

I've never had any confidence in any pitcher who's "out" pitch is a change-up. That's why Glavine always has so much trouble in the post season. If he isn't locating it, there's no plan B. The only type of pitchers that are consistently successful in the playoffs are hard throwers.

This is the worst group of National League teams I have ever seen in one year. All four teams are absolutely weak in a lot of areas and have no business being in the playoffs. The odds of the Phillies, Cubs, Rockies and Diamondbacks being in the playoffs at the same time must have been a million to one. I guess ya never know when it comes to the World Series, I thought that Cardinals team last year was aweful but a couple guys pulled shit out of their ass and had stellar performances. Baseball starting to have parity in the post season, regardless of how strong the AL is this year.

I still say Boston will take it in the end.

Philly is the best team at the moment and they're certainly not great. Colorado is certainly the hottest but you have to wonder how much they have left in the tank after two weeks of ultra-max effort.

All 4 of the American League teams are better than any of the National League teams this year.

I actually like Colorado though to come out of the NL. The middle of their line-up is as good as anyone's in baseball, and they are definitely hot.

I like Cleveland in the AL because they have the best 1-2 punch in a starting rotation of any of the teams in the playoffs.

Philly's got some awfully high end talent, actually, a helluva lot better than the Cardinals had after Pujols: Howard, Rollins and Utley are legitimate superstars, Rowand had a great year, and Burrell can certainly hit for power when he's on. Victorino is an excellent base stealer, but got hurt and then Werth hit like crazy in his place. Despite the parade of clowns at 3B, Philly's offense isn't a problem.

And if Cole Hamels is healthy (and 13 k's last time out says he should be), they have at least one dominant pitcher. And Brett Myers is usually completely unhittable at the back end if they get that far.

Arizona won despite a guy without even a .300 OBP leading off for them most of the year. Chris Young went 30-30, but 1-4 with no walks is a good day for him. But he had some insanely hot HR streaks.

Will be interesting to see which Carlos Zambrano shows up. Brandon Webb is a very good pitcher, but has bad outings more than he should.

Colorado's an OK team, nothing more.

It's going to be fun watching Joba Chamberlain blow people away in the 8th inning. He's a much better pitcher than Zumaya was last year for the Tigers, and Zumaya was pretty damned good. Too bad Clay Buchholz got a booboo for the Red Sox, as he would have been a tremendous boost for the Red Sox' bullpen. Does ANYBODY think Okajima will ever make an All Star team again? And what the hell happened to Eric Gagne? He was at least DECENT in Texas!

Gagne? Another victim of the ----

Curse of the Bambino !!!

Who needs a stinkin bullpen? I'll just order up 4 becketts!

Rodriguez's hopes of following up a certain MVP season with a glittering postseason is on hold. He went 0-for-2 and walked twice, once intentionally in the fifth when Sabathia wriggled out of a serious jam.A-Rod dropped to 4-for-43 (.093) with no RBIs in his last 13 postseason games.

Is Arod a no show in the post season once again?

Well it has been one game this year, so let's give him a chance. Certainly he would have preferred to be 2 for 2...

Unfortunately ChokeRod lives on
Just striking out with the the go ahead run on second. Knocking a hit in these situations is why he gets paid the big money. I really believed that he would come though this year as he wants to look good if he is going to buy ownership in the Cubs.
Jeter would have singled for sure. Chokerod really need to get it in gear 0-6 and two walks at this moment is unacceptable.

Mr. April - 0 for 4 tonight, hat trick on strikeouts. Yanks down 2-0 to the Indians who look really good on the pitching front.

I think all Yankees players that don't have at least 1 hit in the two games should be shot. I mean TWO WHOLE GAMES WITHOUT A HIT?

Exactly much did Ryan Howard's solo shot in game 2 help the Phillies? Didn't make a shit's bit of difference because the pitching stunk.

Have you clowns ever heard of a small sample size?

Come on Porker-

Now it is all the Yankees should be shot. " I mean TWO WHOLE GAMES WITHOUT A HIT? " I think A Rod is the only Yankee who is what 4-48 in the post season. in there last 48 post season plate appeareances!

A Rod had the chance to win the game in the 9th inning .....he choked!

He is a regular season marvel and a post-season choker. He is not even really feared by the American League. Porker you are big on statistics for A Rod. The intentional walk in the 1st game was a rarity. Correct me if I am wrong but I think he had less than 10 intentional walks all year. How many did broken down Bonds have.

I think in the history of the game someone with the numbers A Rod put up had so few intentional walks. A Rod really just doesn't put fear in the opponents. I wonder what his statistics ar against the upper tier teams versus his statistics against the farm teams like the Royals, Devil Rays, etc.

The guy choked in the 9th inning last night....he could have separated himself from the other Yankees....that is what great players do!

Well Porker has a kind of a jones for Arod. A little kinky isn't it porker.

A-Rod went 0-for-4 with three strikeouts and is now 4-for-47 with zero RBIs in his last 14 playoffs games.

Yeah, how is that for a large sample size? Of course you are a fucking genius though.

Obviously Porker this loss is A-Rod's fault. Let's forget for a moment that the entire team had 3 hits in 11 innings (including Abreu's SMOKING hot in-field single).

A-Rod should've accepted the fact that he's not a playoff player and worked with Jorge Posada on the proper way to BLOCK A FUCKING BALL in the dirt with a runner on third. Or perhaps he should have counseled Joe Torre on the proper time to take out a pitcher late in the game (most managers tend to yank them after the first walk.) Yup, it's all A-Rod's fault.

I guess everyone can't be Manny!

EA

ps. In case the sarcasm is not dripping through this post please insert it at your leisure.

54 HR 156 RBI seasons grow on trees... Completely irrelevant. I like a post I had about 6 months back: ARod had more RBI's in the first 3 weeks of April than last year's World Seris MVP HAD ALL YEAR!

I agree with Porker. The Yankees have run into a buzzsaw of superior pitching and NOBODY is producing on what is supposed to be a classic Bronx Bomber lineup 1-9. Is Jeter producing? Matsui? ARod takes all the heat because he has the giant contract. I won't feel sorry for him but baseball is baseball and that means superstar hitters often experience a huge quotient of failure when they face superior pitchers.

If the team as a whole can come untracked and get a chance to maybe come back in this series and play deeply into the playoffs, then we'll see what ARod can do. These 2 games prove nothing. Much of the recent past playoff history has been like this series - the Yankees getting blown out easily in the first round with the whole team not producing, including demonstrated clutch performers like Jeter.

Meanwhile, how about that Stanford Cardinal and dem Fighting Irish??? Appocalypse Saturday in Los Angeles!!! Sorry, as a proud hater of most teams playing in the city of my own present domicile, I had to sneak this in. Meanwhile, waiting for the BIG ONE tonight!!!

I'm sitting here wondering if the top of the 8th in the Sox-Angels game will ever end. The Sox already have 7 runs in and I'm wondering if they'll let either Schilling or whoever is relieving him hit just to be nice.

MVP-Rod could have had some golden RBI opportunities already in this game if that CHOKER Jeter hadn't already grounded into two double plays in 3 innings. They should string him up by his balls.

Game 4

Bottom of the 1st

1 out.... 2 Yankees on base

A-Rod chokes again..... 4 pitches strikes out!

Bottom of the 3rd

Choke-Rod leads off with another strikeout!

A-Rod 0-2 with 2 strikeouts


Bottom of the 2nd

Jeter gets an RBI

How many double plays has Jeter hit into again?

I'd be awfully damned tempted to let Betancourt pitch the 9th. Borowski really isn't much of a pitcher, and Betancourt is just about untouchable. Of course the postseason always seems to result in asking players to do something they've neevr done before all year/in their career. Bringing back Wang on 3 days rest when he's NEVER done that in his career, and with Cleveland obviously having his # in game 1 is a shining example.

I will admit that Mr. April played a little better this October. Solo homer tonight, he had four hits total and one RBI for the series, plus a couple of walks. But, with the Yanks done for the year, I'm ecstatic.

The ALCS looks good on paper, the NLCS is a crapshoot. Should be a good playoff run here out.

A-Rod....what a leader 4 years with the Yankees and in the playoffs they are like 4-17 with him on the playoff roster.

He is not a pressure player. The single and home run last night were in non pressure situations 5 runs down. While the game was close he choked when he was at the plate. One RBI in the playoffs, a solo home run in his last 50 something at bats in the playoffs. In the ninth he just was trying to make contact and not strike out...at least he did that.



When is Joe Torre going to stop sucking the Boss's cock and tell him to go to Hell! Everyone trys to make it look like Torre has dignity and pride but what a pussy he is.

Porker...what do you have to say about your super hero now!

Only 1 thing TO say:

M-V-P

I quote myself from April 24: A testament to the Yankees strong lineup last year was Chien-Ming Wang finishing 2nd in the AL Cy Young race despite not even breaking 100 K's. When THAT GUY is your ace, you ain't gonna win a GODDAMNED THING in the post-season.

my beloved cubs got knocked out fast by the dbacks in three games... Lee, Ramirez and soriano dont show up for the series, and the cubs hit into 4 GIDP in game 3.. the pitching staff melts down.. Hill and Lily give up early runs and walks.. I thought the Cubs had a chance to go all the way.. but as they say, wait until next year!! Bring in A ROD, play him at SS, move theriot to 2b and de rosa to RF... no problem..

4 GIDP, Jeter almost did that by himself in the last two deciding games!

But he's "Mr. Clutch"...

arod in boston... however unlikely that may be, how sweet the tune.

Would be fun to see Arod play SS again wherever he may end up. Jeter's ridiculous inadequacy at the postion just hammers home what fools NY homer fans and media are for even lumping his SELFISH ass in the same sentence with the best there ever was.

I don't much mind Chip Caray, I have a ridiculous affection for his dad and late Grandpa, as I hung on their every word growing up and watching some mostly REALLY, REALLY bad baseball teams every day/night in the formative days of cable TV. But THIS quote should get his ass banned from national TV for-fuckin-EVER:

"Some people say that Juan Cruz was the MVP of the Diamondbacks staff this year..."

HUHHHHHH? Juan Cruz is 1 step up from a mop up man! WEBB? PENA? VALVERDE? Shit, even LIVAN!!! and Lyon???

NAAAHHHH!!!

Talk about posting good stats in a crappy role...

(Message edited by porker on October 11, 2007)

Todd Helton has a .332 lifetime average, and probably a lock for 3000 hits and 700 doubles, things that even in a pinball offensive era will get him an instant pass to the HOF (witness the hoopla over the BLASE Biggio's 3000th hit). And this is his 1st ever post-season series.

But ARod's a bum...

trot nixon-- bleh!

Man, this shit is getting boring. At least make it a little bit of a challenge. Beckett is a man among boys come october.

So Clemens and Pettite got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Every word anyone has ever uttered about Barry Bonds now needs to be said about Clemens.

There was some comment today from Clemens' lawyer about how "unfortunately, there's no action that can be taken to remedy this injustice" (from a lying accusation. Of course there is, Roger, the Mitchell Report would be LIBEL and the testimony of the guy that SHOT YOU UP is called slander. With your hundreds of millions of dollars, surely you can find a lawyer willing to sue people to clear your good name! HAVE AT IT!

Wonder what this does to the prosecution of Barry Bonds?

All these ballplayers of the same persuasion ... "if you're not cheating, you're not trying".

All these ballplayers have one thing in common, they are hiding a secret life of enhanced performance drug usage.

How a prosecutor could go after Bonds and let 80 other ballplayers have a "free pass" is clearly an abuse of prosecutorial discretion.

Hell, Rafael Palmiero lied his ass off in the face of Congress. Mark McGwire (do you really believe silence is nothing more than an admission of guilt?) refused to answer any incriminating questions.

It's time to drop the charges against Barry Bonds (unless you want to charge him with having a "shitty" attitude toward most of the human population).

Out!

Wonder what this does to the prosecution of Barry Bonds?

It STRENGTHENS the case. He is not being prosecuted for using steroids but for perjury i.e. lying about using steroids before the grand jury in the Balco investigation.

This is further proof he knowingly used steroids so is another nail in his coffin.

None of the other players you mentioned lied to the grand jury therefore they are not being prosecuted. Congress debated pressing perjury charges for Ralphy but decided not to. Up to them . Barry just lied to the wrong prosecutor. His bad !!

That Manny guy can hit a little?

Always amusing when pro sports teams talk about how some guy's a "bad apple" and he ends up wreaking holy hell for another team. Francona's job was to motivate Manny. Much easier to throw him under the bus...

WELL DONE!

Manny Ramirez is one of the greatest right handed hitters I have ever seen but Manny threw himself under the bus.

Manny Ramirez is one of the greatest right handed hitters I have ever seen but Manny threw himself under the bus.

He seems to be doing alright in LA?

Al Davis must have just LOVED watching Randy Moss last year!

What's your guess at Pedroia's true height/weight?

I'd say 5-9, 175.

He had a fucking GREAT season.

Joe Mauer's still the MVP, though...

Hamilton 2nd, Arod 3rd.

Cliff Lee 4th. Halladay 5th. Miggy Cabrera 6th. Quentin 7th. Ichiro 8th.

Then Pedroia.

Being an amazing little bastard doesn't make you Barry Bonds.

Sox appear to be 3 out away from going home......I want the Sox to win the Series every year....

Boras wants 6 year/$30 mil per deal for Manny. Anyone think he will get that kind of money? Who else wants him becides the Dodgers? I'm not a Yankee fan, but I would love to see him in pinstripes. It would make the 17 games a year of Yankees/Red Sox awesome!

I do not want Manny near Boston....I lived in his buidling for two years...super nice guy, but the way he dealt with the Sox in July was disgraceful...Boras was pulling the strings on that one....The Sox gave him a huge contract at the time....They took the chance on this guy, they had two one year options left, and Manny realized he was screwed from making another big payday so he QUIT....Moreover, Manny would have made a huge difference against Tampa, that makes it hurt even more....

I have never seen a more clutch player than Manny. He would have put Boston over the top against the Rays. They love him in L.A.

Baseball blockbuster:

Royals pick up Coco Crisp!!!

This one will send shockwaves through the sports world.

Sadly, he's probably the best free agent the Royals have picked up in the last dozen years. It's hard for us fans who remember the late 70s - early 80s.

EA

El apodo

Crispy was not even a free agent . KC actually traded for his tired old ass.

He was traded for relief pitcher Ramon Ramirez . Whoever the fuck that is. Major deal obviously.

KM,

Now you see why it is hard to be a Royals fan. (Living in Mexico I don't keep up on the Hot Stove League like I used to.)And to think that during the Series in '85, I made the conscience decision to root for the Royals over the Cards despite growing up south of St. Louis and watching Brock, Gibson et al in their prime as a kid.

I guess I qualify as a real fan, as I haven't given up hope on the Royals yet. I mean if the Rays can make the Series then everyone has hope, right?

Maybe Crisp will lead the league in infield singles this year. I'm sure that stat alone would make him worth the acquisition.

EA

A-Fraud-

It was just a matter of time before he was exposed!

His Playoff numbers-

24 games

234 batting average
4 home runs
9 runs batted in

Who said he was the greatest player ever?

The 3 greatest baseball players who ever lived, IMO, were Arod, Bonds and Clemens, and I have no idea in what order. Arod's almost surely first.

I personally don't give a shit about steroids. If Ben Johnson was half-man/half-HORSE, I couldn't fucking care less. He was the fastest "sorta-Human" ever, until the steroids got so designer-esque as to mask whatever steroids existed before.

"Supplements" and steroids are probably incestually linked. If athletes 40 years ago had access to them they would have taken them. If they played today, they'd get their lunches eaten. In the late 70's when Fred Lynn gained 30 lbs. and became a 'power' hitter (he hit as many as THIRTY HR's, like, ONCE), it sparked a "nautilus" revolution in baseball. I don't see any people-powered-putsch to take away Caminiti or Bagwell's MVP's or keep Biggio out of the Hall. They were freakishly muscular, but only one told the truth about where it came from before he kicked the bucket.

The one thing that I don't get is how other sports get a free pass. Anybody ever seen a 23 year old with a body like Dwight Howard or Rafa Nadal? If Shaq and Jordan listed their "health regimens", would anyone see any difference between Ankiel's and McGwire's and Arod's?

There's smoke here, and there's fire here. But there's an awful lot of grey fucking area too. The bottom line is that building bulk is revered and reviled.

Dustin Pedroia sure has a lot of power for a guy MY height.

So did Joe Morgan...

Pro athletes have been "cheating" as long as there have been pro athletes. In the case of baseball, and you're a pitcher, and the difference between a 90-MPH fastball and a 93-MPH fastball are some needle pricks, there's an incentive to do so. The fact that there's now testing and consequences means that guys will cut down, but again, if it's your lost shot, you'll do it.

Back during the 94-95 strike, a good friend of mine from college decided to be a scab player if the 95 season would have started with guys crossing the picket line. His point was simple - he was a six-year minor-league free agent, and had had arm problems (lefty pitcher). He had made it to AAA and then got hurt, and afterwards had lost a few miles off of his fastball. He had little chance of making it, so the strike was really his last chance.

Drugs aren't the same, but in baseball, a small difference means so much, especially for pitchers. People think it's all about power hitters bulking up, but I think most guys take them to either stay on the field in whatever position or to get back on the field after an injury. Minor leaguers make peanuts per month, if they're drafted high they get a decent signing bonus but after that, it's a grand a month or whatever plus meal money. You have to keep moving up, if you plateau at any level in the minors, it becomes harder and harder to get a shot. So you do anything and everything to keep yourself in the game.

This doesn't mean I'm pro-steroids or anything, but when people criticize athletes for using them, think of it this way. If you're working a job for $50k a year, and someone tells you that if you took steroids, you have a small chance of being discovered but if not, you could make $500k a year. That's the choice these guys have sometimes.

One thing I do think is bullshit is some of the "guilty" findings when some guy went to GNC or Medicine Shoppe and bought and used a supplement supposedly "good", then comes to find out there was some chemical in it that's a masking agent for some other, illegal drug. None of the leagues will do the obvious - test as many supplements and medicines as they can, then provide a definitive list to players that says "if you use these, you are clean". The leagues won't do it because they don't want to appear in bed with one supplement vendor over another. So, it creates a mess for some of these guys.

All I have to say is, Jose Canseco is looking pretty damn smart these days.

I'm agreeing with Cat on all counts.

I had a good time in TIJUANA THIS WEEKEND.

I still have a hard time finding value for 150 USD short times...

Nobody's perfect?

Today's NBA email SPAM (not kidding)

"Kobe NBA freak of the week"...

And if it came out that the NBA's standard "we test 1x a year in August" testing for "Vitamins/supplements/HGH(NOT)/Steroids(PUHHHH-LLLEEEEEEEEEEEZ. Maybe the 1999 versions...)", what would THAT do to America's (non-rape case, believing. Not too many baseball players accused of THAT!) 'darling'?

I don't think ANYBODY should be advertising the "freak of the week", especially with their past rape allegations?

Poor Choke-Rod
He finally has to admit he is not the true athlete Jeter is.

One of the "Greatest Players" becomes one of the "Biggest cheaters of all time".

Porker admits having a good time in TJ? Wow Sorry I was not in TJ to witness this. Congrats.

Sorry I forgot this entertaining link.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AmwHVk_UWWoglzn9AyVAPrARvLYF?slug=ti-arod020909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Sorry for some reason the whole link is not working at the moment.

Great interview with Rodriguez and Sports Illustrated

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3895281

Jeter still can't carry Arod's jock.

NEXT?

From my post on April 21, 2007:

"One thing I definately notice about Arod these days is that he looks huge compared to 3 years ago. Maybe it's just creatine, maybe more?"

Guess I was onto something.

Blazers-

Don't get Porker excited about A-Fraud looking huge....he will want to do a threesome with A-Fraud and his cousin.

A-Fraud choked more in that press conference than he has in the post season in his career.


His Playoff numbers-

24 games

234 batting average
4 home runs
9 runs batted in

Who said he was the greatest player ever?

this guy never talks about women....hmmm

Beachfraud,

Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

I'll put up $100 and take Alex Rodriguez. You can take any other single player in major league baseball. We will compete head to head based on the following statistics: Batting Average, Number of At-Bats, Number of Runs Scored, Number of Hits, Number of Doubles, Number of Triples, Number of Home Runs, Number of Stolen Bases and Number of RBIs. My guy beats your guy in a category, I win a point. Your guy beats mine, you win a point. Whoever wins the most categories is the winner.

Additionally, let's break the money into two wagers based on the number of games in the regular season and the post season. Since the maximum number of games a season is 181 (barring a tie), 94 dollars of the money wagered would be determined on statistics from the 162 game regular season. The remaining 6 dollars would be bet on statistics from the post-season.

Are you man enough to pony up?

EA

(Message edited by el_apodo on February 20, 2009)

Like Pork said, "Next..."

Stupidity and Character questions do not diminish the fact that Arod has more god given talent and physical abilities then anyone preceding him.

Looks like A-Fraud, A-Roid's problems are just beginning. Looks like his 2007 season he was doing some kind of steroids.....the rats are coming out of the woodwork....it is just a matter of time now more of the truth is going to come out!

Beachman, please explain the difference between anabolic steroids, HGH, and over the counter "supplements".

Then tell us ONE major leaguer that does NONE of the above (especially when rehabbing from an injury).

"When Cole Hamels passes 'GO', he collects 400 dollars"

http://mysite.verizon.net/heyjude421/chf/chf.html

While I'm sure the question has been posed, I can't figure out what's with the holier than though attitude when it comes to supplements and steroids use in MLB. I hardly see the outcry, media circus, and BS legal/gov interest in conducting a witch hunt in the NFL and NBA like we see in MLB.

Porker-

What about Jeter?

If everybody does it why don't they just allow it.


The only years A-Fraud hit over 50 home runs 204 and 2002 where he admitted using and he hit 52 and 54 home runs. When he hit a career high in 2007 and he denies using he hit 57 home runs.

Now it comes out during the 2001-2003 seasons a trainer from the Dominican named Angel Presinal admits to working with A-Raud during those seasons. Presinal has was named in the Mitchell report and was banned fro MLB clubhouses. Now it is being reported Presinal accompanied A-Fraud during the entire 2007 season.


Just because everybody else does it doesn't make it right. I suppose all of the Wall executives and Bankers who cooked the books have done nothing wrong because everybody else was doing it. It looks like there were no laws in place to make it illegal because of the thousands of corupted executives who has been arrested>

In fact just like in MLB they reward the cheaters with bigger and longer high priced contracts.....our government has rewarded the executives who cooked books with bail out money and are not holding them responsible for what they do with the money.

This is the culture of are society....crime and cheating pays. And if you give caught money will buy you a way to spin out of it!

Are some people actually arguing that ARod is the best of all time? There's a roll call of greats but Ruth is so clearly the best of all time. It's not even close actually. His stats are stunning. He easily would have had over 900 home runs if he hadn't lost 5 years at Boston as a pitcher. As a pitcher won 94 games with a 2.3 era. As I said, NOT EVEN CLOSE.

A-Rod's not even the best right now, much less historically.

cant compare eras like that stay away

Beachfraud,

As I suspected you're all hot air. When are you going to post about girls on this site?

EA

El apudo-

Why don't you go have a threesome with A-Roid and his Cuz!

Beachbitch,

I'll pass on the 3some, I wouldn't want to step into Republican territory. You guys are known to swing from that side of the plate.

Can't man up on the bet, huh? If you know the game - which you obviously don't, the odds are in your favor as I'm basically allowing you to have the field. Unfortunately for you, got to have more than a bucket full of bullshit to make a good choice. Too bad, it would have been easy money for me. However, your choice to not play does expose you as the poser that you are.

EA

The biggest issue is that baseball was built on history, stats. When you have guys like Sosa and McGuire taking away Roger Maris' record due to steroids. Its bullshit. Same with Bonds, etc.

Maybe we should throw the stats out? Old timers were not 100% clean, but I cant imagine they had anything close to what today's athletes take. Looking at pictures of Ruth, Mays, etc, its hard to believe they were using anything other than to heal from injury. Maybe uppers? I dont know. Does anyone know what they would have taken back then to speed up healing?

(wow, just had a huge flashback of watching Willy Mays running up catching a ball. Those were the days taking my glove to the ballpark, but I digress)

At the risk of sounding like a grandfather (which I am) I dont think it is healthy for young kids to see their sports heros all juiced up on steroids. Its not healthy. I would rather see them grow up and bang hot chicks in South America.

Just my 2 cents.

A-Rod's not even the best right now, much less historically.

I'll bite? Name somebody better?

The 1 dude you've pimped here (Tejada) was more horse steroids injecting than the man, the myth, the legend, the all time stat leader?

AZ guy, I hear you. I hear that Mantle played SS in hi skool.

Here's the rub:

Cal Ripken was a pretty damned OK oversized Lurch-esque SS in his prime.

Arod was a gold glove winning SS.

Jeter is a frigg'n HORRIBLE SS both via the #'s and to the naked eye.

MAYBE Arod got a 5 feet per fly ball boost from juicing in his hitting #'s. MAYBE they helped him avoid pesky boo boos.

But where Arod was ALWAYS a freak, and why he's EASILY THE greatest player of all time, is that can ANYone EVER put a value on a 60 HR 160+ rbi 30+ SB producing GOLD GLOVE SHORTSTOP?

Duane Kuiper is a nice guy and a fine announcer. Fred Patek was an inspiration as the little guy who COULD. Bucky Dent, Dustin Pedroia, Phil Rizzutto, Pee Wee Reese, Blah, blah, blah...

Show me a 800 HR hitting gold glove SS.

I once upon a time LOVED Robin Yount.

What'd HE hit, 250?

Porker,

Yeah, I was big on Tejada - about 4 years ago.

A-Rod isn't the best player on his team - I would take Jeter over him in any game that mattered, that being playoff games. Yeah, A-Rod puts up the numbers during the regular season, but he's never hit for shit in the playoffs. Bottom line is, no matter how great your stats are, if you suck during the playoffs, you're not really that great.

So, if you're looking at raw numbers, A-Rod is impressive. If you look at leadership and intangibles, plus success in the playoffs, he falls way short.

The fact that he's a complete fagged-out pussy has no bearing on the fact that he sucks in the playoffs, when the pressure is on. If I had two current Yankees to pick for a team going into the playoffs, I would pick Jeter and Rivera, particularly in their primes.

And for the "rings rule" clowns, please comment on the following:

Robert Horry has more rings combined than Chamberlain, Duncan, Lucas, West, Shaq, Kobe, Wade, Ming, Mcgrady, Iverson, Stockton, Malone.

Cat, maybe you missed Arod's career LCS vs. Jeter's stats above.

Anybody that thinks Jeter can hold Arod's JOCK at any level, hitting fielding (Maybe baserunning?) has been heavily brainwashed by NY-centric media and isn't worth arguing with.

"Arod sucks because his also-ran pitchers sucked in the biggest games of his life".

Has anybody here ever watched both Arod and Jeter play SS?

The only retard in the world that would conclude that Jeter was somehow BETTER would be Joe Torre and JETER'S AGENT.

Oh, and 20 million Yankee fan bozos that are hung up on Arod's price tag and apparently oblivious to the FACT that Jeter has made MORE MONEY every year since Arod has been in New York.

For hitting as many home runs in a season as Arod hits in 2 months.

Rivera > Arod?

So i guess that means Frankie Rodriguez just had the greatest statistical season of ALL TIME, and Byung hyun Kim is a hall of famer?

El Pussy-

A-Fraud's Playoff stats

24 games

234 batting average
4 home runs
9 runs batted in

Adjust those stats for a 162 game season

234 batting average
27 home Runs
31 runs batted in


In any sport how you perform in the playoffs and in championships determine if you are considered one of the greats or not.

Who considers the Buffalo Bills who from 1991 to 1994 went to and lost 4 straight Super Bowls as a dynasty. No other team has ever went to 4 straight Super Bowls. What an amazing statistic. But I bet nobody even considers them even being close to being a dynasty. When it comes to saying who were the greatest in all sports.....how they perform in the playoffs and championships is what matters....not the regular season!

Beachbitch,

When, in any sport, did anyone extrapolate playoff statistics into regular season stats? Answer: Never. Who has ever suggested that Jim Kelly was one of the greatest quarterbacks ever - either regular season or playoffs? Answer: No one. You arguments are so asinine and nonsensical that you've lost whatever tiny little shred of credibility that you have had on this subject. (I must say, however, that your answer is very "Republican." I'm sure Rush Limbaugh would be proud of the way you can spin stupidity.)

You see, play in the regular season DOES matter. If you can't perform there, you have NO CHANCE of being one of the biggest playoff losers ever. (As a fan of a VERY bad mid-western baseball team I would rather see my team LOSE four World Series in a row than languish at the bottom of the shit heap as they have done since the mid-80s with NO HOPE of making the playoffs.) Additionally, stupid Yankee fans quickly forget that Rodriguez took a couple of very average (though incredibly over-paid) teams, put them on his back in the regular season and CARRIED them into the playoffs. (The fact that they lost in there I attribute to karma for forcing the rest of the world to have to deal with Steinbrenners and obnoxious Yankee fans.) You should actually try to bring LOGIC to your argument. But I digress.

So, you don't have the balls to put up any money? This is your last chance. Pure stats, my guy against yours. You gonna man-up or be a pussy? (I guess that's a rhetorical question as we all know what the answer will be.)

EA

Porker, I was waiting for the "ring" logic to surface into an argument of who the best individual player is... yes, idiotic is an understatement.

Toss out all the drunks and cheaters of days gone by long ago esp. considering that baseball talent improved by several orders of magnitude in the 50s due to blacks getting their due... Who are we left with?

Mays, Aaron, Bonds, and Alex as the 4 best, with Splinter taking 5th. Now considering the position Alex plays, start bowing and repent. If Alex stays healthy (and off the coconut injections), he's going to rewrite every major hitting record.

Jeter isn't even worth mentioning in the same sentence. Pujols-- maybe if he doesn't burn out and fade away like so many of the countrymen. Unlikely.

DM, nice list, but pitching is at least 40% of the game.

Maddux, Pedro, Clemens and the Big Ugly (maybe walter J?) should be vying for a spot in the top 5.

I think Clemens is the best, but Pedro toying with pinball offensive #'s may push him to the front.

But FUCKING RELIEVERS?

Jee-zus, FUK ME?

your right, I stuck to batting as it's impossible to compare the two. Clemens def #1 all time, then prob Johnson, Seaver, Maddux, Pedro.

Rivera by far is the best reliever, but I don't think anyone can put him up near these guys with a straight face.

You can't compare pitchers to positions players - apples and oranges. I think you have to have two lists.

For me, the position player list would be Ruth, Mays, Aaron, Rodriquez and Bonds (who I hate). I agree about Pujols he has the tools to be one of the greatest hitters ever - but he's probably on the juice like everyone else.

Pitchers are MUCH more difficult to judge, IMHO. You can't compare pitchers from the dead-ball era to today. I think you need two lists - one to cover each era. Having said that, my top five would be Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez, Sandy Koufax, Randy Johnson (the single most physically intimidating pitcher I've ever seen in person) and Bob Gibson. Clemens would be in my top 10, but doesn't crack the top five. I have HUGE respect for what Greg Maddux has been able to do with hardly any of the physical tools of the other guys on my list. Call me a sucker for a pitcher with brains!

EA

I can't argue again Ryan and esp Koufax. Ryan has #s to crack the top 5 and Koufax had the skill in spades and it's a matter of how you weigh career stats vs what he did in the time he was there.

I agree with your logic of splitting pitchers into two separate eras as incomparable. Likewise, I do the same with hitters. No way one can compare #s for Ruth, Wagner, Cobb with the modern era.

Yes, if Ruth posted his #s now when he did then-- the #1 ranking would be a no-brainer. Would he-- of course not.

(Message edited by donmarco on February 25, 2009)

I'm a numbers slave more than anyone.

And a slave to VELOCITY.

Walter Johnson supposedly pitched with similar stuff to modern day superstars, actually BLOWING AWAY a guy like Maddux.

Yet in today's era of JUICE, the hitting stats are totally skewed towards O-Fence (as the Canucks would call it).

Pedro, the Big Ugly, Maddux have been DOMINANT throughout the last 20 years. If Maddux used HORSE STEROIDS like Bonds did, he hid it well!

Re: the BABE vs. Arod droll, for the 15th time, can ANYONE imagine Babe Ruth playing the middle infield?

Nolan Ryan's value was in his pitch count. Imagine anyone today averaging 180+ pitches per game? THEY'D MAKE 100 million year?

But in the 2-1 era of the 70's, Ryan was a 20 w's, 18-losses wash?

Talk about somebody born at the WRONG TIME?

El_apodo

We can agree on one thing. I too am a fan of the Kansas City Royals! I grew up in in Independence, Mo and watched the Royals come into existence and build into a contender. Brett, Mayberry, Rojas, Patek, Paul Schaul, Otis, even Pinella when he was rookie of the year!


They are now just a farm team like all but 4-5 teams in MLB. Once players become stats...Damon, Beltran. etc....the big money teams buy them!

The teams that spend the big money have a 90% plus chance of making money make the PLAYOFFS> So the regular season stats don't have nearly the impact of how great a player these days have as do the stats they put up in the playoffs.

And A-Fraud chokes in the playoffs!

The reason I have Ruth and Mays as 1 - 2 is that they changed the game. Ruth "invented" the power hitter. He did it at time when power was unknown. If you compare his stats to players today, they are nothing special. However, if you compare his stats to players of his time no one in the history of the game (and I believe the history of sport) has done what he did. Of course, the biggest mark against him is that he didn't compete against some of the greatest players of his era as blacks were not in the game. I wish it weren't so, but alas there it is.

Mays was the game's first "complete" player. He could do it all - run, hit, hit for power, field, etc. He had the total game. There have been players since both who have done it better (Aaron, Rodriguez - if he stays healthy - "Melon Head" Bonds), but I tend to lean towards the pioneers in category when creating lists.

I'm not so sure about DMs assertion that Ruth could produce similar numbers today. The guy is LEGENDARY for how he ABUSED his body and still put up numbers. If you put Ruth in an era that includes personal trainers, weight programs, etc. (and yes, even the juice), it is possible that he would blow away the field still. Of course, we will never know. At the end of the 20th century, ESPN compiled it's 100 greatest athletes list. I thought Ruth got absolutely screwed coming in at #2 behind Jordan. Don't get me wrong, Jordan was a great player, but when you compare his stats to other players of his generation he in no way beats Ruth. (I also feel that Jordan was the beneficiary of TV marketing, but that's another rant.)

When compiling my pitching list I had serious qualms about putting Koufax on the list. After all, he's the only player there who failed the longevity test. I liken him to Gail Sayers in the NFL; mad skills - but for such a short period of time how do you know if it was real? If I were forced to drop Koufax from my list, I could live with it. I also agree with Porker about Ryan. Talk about a guy who played for shit teams! Imagine what he could have done if he had played for a contender.

All these and my list didn't include my favorite player of all time - George Brett. There's a guy NO ONE can accuse of being on the juice.

EA

Walter Johnson still holds the crown for greatest player on the shittiest teams. Even his plaque in Cooperstown notes that.

"There were no sophisticated measuring devices in the early 1900s, but Walter Johnson's fastball was considered to be in a class by itself. Using a sweeping sidearm delivery, The Big Train fanned 3,508 over a brilliant 21-year career with the Washington Senators, and his 110 shutouts are more than any pitcher. Despite hurling for losing teams most of his career, he won 417 games -- second only to Cy Young on the all-time list -- and enjoyed 10 successive seasons of 20 or more victories."

George, Brett "JUICED" a-plenty:

NIGHTLY the city's finest filet mignons with a 6 pack of Corona as a chaser!

HE might STILL be playing had he indulged in Willie Wilson's "regimen" instead.

Re: Royals nostalgia, I hear Brett was a talented HS QB in W. VA, while Wilson was a decade ahead of his time (a tall Rozier, a more ambitious Fryar, played half back).

DM, are we gonna have a fantasy baseball league this year, and can anyone figure out how it can aid my fantasy WHOREMONGERING TRIPS by getting the CLOWNS here to put their pera where their mouths were...

30 bucks per bitch means 3 days extra for me on the next vacation.

Ha, ha, some of Brett's exploits in the KC nightclub scene are STILL legendary.

I contend there's only two players in the last 20 years who haven't been on the juice - Brett and Bucky Dent. The only reason I say Dent is to remind SOOOXXX fans of that miraculous little homer in Fenway Park!!

EA

Any of you have MLB Channel? I like it but they ought to give us a feed for preseason games.

I don't. But I have subscribed to mlb.com's internet package the last several years (it runs about 100-120 bucks for the season), and they always offered 4+ spring training games a day. If I remember correctly, they had a couple of free spring training games online per week too.

It's been awhile since I lived in the US, but there always seemed to be spring training games on cable on the weekends...

The bad news about the MLB internet package for US subscribers --

They black out WAAAAAAAAAAY too many games. If you have the misfortune of living in Vegas, you can't watch ANY of the California teams' games. That MAY be changed starting in 2010.

Performance enhancing drugs mean nothing to you guys? Good job!!!

Some pantywaist nobody hitting .400 in the LCS or 3 HR's in the 6th and final game of the world series doesn't mean shit to me either.

David Eckstein was the 2006 world series MVP. Albert Pujols was an "also-ran".

Lancer, I repeat myself, repeat myself:

Please explain the differences between illegal steroids, (not yet) illegal steroids, HGH (legal if presribed by a doctor, but TABOO for athletes, and over the counter supplements (uhh, that MOSTLY show up on today's list of BANNED substances.

We're waiting?

Does ANYBODY want to play in the World Baseball Classic?

Unless they want to generate the average interest level of the annual "Caribbean World Series", they'll make it a weeklong event in the middle of July every 3 years. Qualifying can be done by minor leaguers in March. IF they did it that way, it may actually approach World Cup level interest in countries that actually GET baseball (all 5 of them!), which would be a HUGE boost for the sport worldwide.

From COLE HAMELS FACTS site:

#6. Pedro Martinez keeps a picture of Cole Hamels under his hat for inspiration.

apodo-- "I'm not so sure about DMs assertion that Ruth could produce similar numbers today"

I believe my exact words were, "Would he-- of course not."

DM,

Very cryptic. Can we assume you think Ruth would be more prolific?

EA

Not sure if it's me being cryptic or another factor at play...

Would he post the same #s today... of course not.

(Message edited by donmarco on March 01, 2009)

A Rod's cold, calculating last two offeseasons:

"If I pretend to isolate Boras, I can look like the GOOD GUY getting the richest contract ever".

"If I can have league average range at 3B, eventually SOMEBODY HAS GOTTA SEE that I'm a better 3b/SS combo than Jeter has ever been in his career"???

"If I dump me MILF wife for Madonna, it'll be the same as Joe's pursuit of Marilyn (Bogart and Gable were dying-choking-smokers, the rest of Hollywood was GAY! Ted Williams and Stan Musial played in hick towns...)"

"If I play for the Dominican I will be the hero of half the have-nots in the world, and the Gringos will miss me"

"If I fake a hip injury, throw "out for 4 months" crap, maybe the Yankees fans will MISS ME after I pull a Manny and miss a week of spring training at bats"?

Everybody likes a miracle recovery from injuries?

I'm sure Arod will pursue the doctors that "leaked" the surgery rumors like Bonds is and Arod and Clemens are pursuing their un-ethical brethren for their talking out of turn/LIES!

I'll bet Beachbitch is REALLY feeling like an ass for not having the balls to take me up on the bet. Well, I guess I should say "feeling even more like an ass."

EA

Great article on the current exploits of the Greatest Pitching Prospect EVER (Ankiel was Fool's Gold):

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-prior031109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns