The vast majority of posts from fellow hobbyists show that the mainstream approach to p4p is to do as many different girls as possible. The 3x rule is considered an operative guideline by many. I would like to discuss the pros and cons of a different approach which I call the serial honeymooner.

As the name suggests, this is when you stay with the same girl for a period of time. Could be few days, a week, or longer. The difference between this and an outright relationship (other than the p4p angle) is that we are really talking about very long sessions, but just that.

There are scattered reports from hobbyists who have done something along these lines on some trips, and they often report that these were among their most enjoyable experiences. Since there should be no shortage of advocates to the "lots of different girls" approach, let me argue in favor of the serial honeymooner approach to get a discussion going.

1. If you do many girls in a short period, you inevitably have to compromise on the quality, since there are only so many 9's and 10's out there. If you prefer quality to variety, you should get the most out of the 9's and 10's you run into.

2. It does not take long for intimacy to go up considerably, while it takes longer for the level of excitment to wear off.

3. The unpredictability of session quality is avoided when you stay on with someone of proven performance.

Of course, a mixuture of the two approaches is possible. Perhaps "interviewing" different girls initially and settling on one for a honeymoon.

Opinions? Stories? Flames?

Although I am out of the hobby for the next few months, I'd like to throw my two cents in here. I have been hobbying for about 2 1/2 years. I have always had the 1-2 hour sessions with many different women. And that kept things in perspective. My home life, where I'm not getting it, and my hobby life where I am. In my home town there are no shortage of high quality ladies in the business (9 - 10's).

I have only seen one local hooker repeatedly (3 times total). Our sessions went through the roof to the point where she was asked me to come to her house to meet her kids and have dinner. I scrammed after that 3rd session.

Repeats have the big probability of a lot of emotional attachment between both parties if you are going for the total GFE package. And friends that isn't good in this hobby. Believe me I know.

However, having just recently come off a trip and spending 5 nights with one Nica and her not wanting my money, was the most unbelievable time I have ever had. It made me realize where I stand in my marriage, and what I need right now to make me happy (more freedom to fuck who I want when I want). I don't see how anybody can spend multiple (more than 3) days with a GFE lady and not feel something for them.

We all just need to weigh it out and see if that is we want.

In summary, I think there is no emotion on the short timers (1-2 hour sessions one time only). Pay them to leave. There are however huge emotions on the multi-day rock your world sessions, or with repeats.

As you note, physical intimacy goes up in a honeymoon relationship. But so does emotional intimacy, and that's a two way street. Lots of these girls are very ambivalent about balling for dollars and the promise or self-delusion of a way out of the life is a gigantic brass ring for them.

A monger who goes into such a relationship with a "take no prisoners" approach, doesn't tell the girl he only just wants to pork her until the excitement wears off and couldn't care less if she gets emotionally carpetbombed in the process, in my view, mirrors the actions/attitudes of the worst type of garotas, those whose only interest is in squeezing every Real/Peso/Baht they can out of the guy as quickly as possible while giving the minimum service. (Man, that is one long sentence...)

Even if the monger is up front with her there is a high likelihood of emotional damage to at least to her and probably to BOTH when the honeymoon is over because the reality is most mongers AND garotas WILL wind up getting involved emotionally when they are together long term.

Also, P4P girls are often poor candidates for any type of long term relationship for all sorts of reasons. CH posts on this subject -- including mine -- are ubiquitous. Hombres aren't necessarily the greatest catches in the world either.

So my first thoughts are that the honemoon approach strikes me as fraught with potential for incoming, shrapnel and regret and the 3x rule is for everybody's protection. But hey, lightning bolts strike and relationships happen. If you conciously pursue a long term GFE, then chances are you want an emotionally involving honeymoon relationship (along with great sex) and chances are it WILL happen. In fact it will probably happen anyhow whether you want it or not. That's the good news. And the bad.

Per GCL "There, I've said it. It's out. Now deal with it."

I always mix ST sessions with LT with multi day sessions. LT and multi day sessions costs are less predictable, it may be less expensive or it may end up a lot costing more.

The other cost is emotional attachment. If you spend a number of days with the same girl in another country it is hard not to think of the girl when you think of the country. I've said a long time ago on another board, the 3-D rule: On the third day thou shall fall in love.

Though it is not always true, it is quite often true. Stay with a girl 3 or 4 or 5 consecutive days you risk getting hooked. Getting hooked may or may not be bad. Though usually it wrecks havoc on your life and you miss the girl. It does not affect everyone the same way though.

-DJ

Thank you, gentlemen, for your thoughtful posts. What I am hearing is that the risk of emotional attachment, both for the hobbyist and for the provider, is a serious problem in the honeymoon scenario.

Real_Thrill wrote: I think there is no emotion on the short timers (1-2 hour sessions one time only). Pay them to leave. There are however huge emotions on the multi-day rock your world sessions, or with repeats.

SF_Hombre wrote: the reality is most mongers AND garotas WILL wind up getting involved emotionally when they are together long term.

Dick Johnson wrote: I've said a long time ago on another board, the 3-D rule: On the third day thou shall fall in love.

It is also clear that the quality of these honeymoons takes the enjoyment of our hobby to a whole new level.

The question is: Does the reward justify the risk? This probably differs from one person to another, and I would like to hear from hobbyists who had honeymoon experiences about whether it was worth it. Remember, guys, we are talking about serial honeymoons, so we are still talking about mongering except with a different time horizon. We are not talking about relationships, at least not premeditated ones. I am also assuming that the girl gets paid for her services, as I believe non-payment confuses the issues considerably.

Since I have an almost insurmountable reservation about having a "real" relationship with a provider, I feel that the risk of emotional involvement on my part is small (famous last words ). As for the provider herself, it is a delicate issue. On the one hand, the moral justification for the entire hobby is adult consent, and as long as you are explicit about your intentions ahead of time, you are not responsible for inflated expectations that she may develop. On the other hand, getting a "husband" is quite innate in the psychology of so many girls that you practically know that sooner or later you are going to break someone's heart. It's a tough call.

Sabio

Each person is different when it comes to handling this situation.

I tend to stay with ST or 1 day LTs. I am a "variety" junkie and love to sample it all!! However you sometimes find those one-in-a-million girls...

Most of the multi-day LTs are cool about it. I am explicit about how this will go and if the girl's a pro she's not going to get "clingy". We both know the game and while she's more likely to try and up the ante (catching an American sucker is GOOD money for these tarts) she's not going to let a good thing slip away by becoming too emotional. When talking of "emotional investment" by a bargirl the second word is oftentimes more relevant then the first!! These girls NEED to be barfined and get some money off the top of those BFs. They will stay with you and do ALL they can to make sure you KEEP BFing them!! Best for both, eh?

However, there are the girls that just stop you in their tracks. You BFd her and now YOU'RE the one uping the ante!! I don't know why, but SOMETHING flips a switch and you're hooked. Your blood boils when other men look at her. When you are together the world narrows and only focuses on you. You are days away from the end of your trip and you CAN'T stop figuring out how you're gonna get time off work next month and catch a flight back to see her again!! Her smile makes your heart hurt. You stop going barhopping because you actually feel like you're cheating on her if you do. You convince yourself that the barfine is only temporary until you two can figure a way to stay together forever!! You're paying her everyday so she has money to send to her family and save so she can afford to leave the bar...

It's like walking/talking heroin.

This is the risk taken when you keep a girl too long. One of you begins to care... a little too much. Does the other one pick up on it an mirror it? If the girl's the one uping the ante is it for love or money? Maybe she's convinced herself that she's in love, making it easier for her to convince YOU!!

Think she'll stick around if the money runs out? Think her heart will stay true after you've been back home for a few months and can't be back for another few?

Rewards are high, but so is risk. People have the 3 day rule, but I find that's not what gets me in trouble. I have some girls that I've BFd 10 times w/o a problem. It's the ones that you lay your eyes on and suddenly can't look away. Part of you says RUN AWAY NOW!!!!!!!! The other part waves over a waitress to buy her a drink. Sometimes that first day is fun, but the NEXT day you two are on fire...

Rewards are there, but the risk is too. Will you have a good time together and just enjoy? Will she get possessive and try to make your life hell when you go back to her bar? (if they REALLY piss me off I go back and BF her BEST FRIEND!! I can be a real dick...). Will YOU lose sight of the target (having a good time on holiday) and end up wrapped up in your heart?

This is the nature of the looooOOOOooonnnng time, vs. just LT.

E

I have long been a proponent of the 3X rule ever since I first saw Moondogs post on it. I have also justified (in my own mind of course) when I have broken the rule. With a few exceptions of favoritas at a couple of Termas, I have pretty well held to the 3X rule. Not this last trip to Rio.

I succumbed to a little Paulista cutie and spent several days with her. All the guys were giving me a hard time about it and a few even expressed concern. This was not the Sandman they all knew. Of course, I was managing a few ST's on the side but was mainly spending most of my time with her. (read trip report....and the "lest we forget" conclusion)

Last night there, she tells me she is going to SP to see her family but shows up on my doorstep at 2:00AM (fucking security never even rang her through like they are supposed to). Anyway, I was occupied with a Help cutie (natural D's) and sent her away....

Did not see her the next day. Figured she was pissed at me. Didn't really care cause I was pissed at her for not telling me the truth.

Sent her a letter telling her about the great photos I had of her (and even asked her to explain why she had told me she was going to SOP on my last night). She called me in the US on Enamorada day. Said she wasn't sure if she would be in Rio or SP when I returned but to call both her numbers. Even offered to come to Rio if I wanted her to!!! Also told me she had broken up with her boyfriend.

Even the best of us can fall off a log guys. If I see her, I will lose a bet with my travelibng buddy...(that thought pisses me off to no end)If I don't see her.....well, theres lots of fish in that sea. But, if I do see her, I know the sex will be incredible, especially now that she doesn't have a boyfriend (supposedly...?)

To keep the theme of this thread going. ST's are a lot of fun and can be great sex. LT probably generates better sex as many who have GF's on this board will attest to. Many (AS SF said), have also gone through the trials and tribulations with somewhat ubiquitious results...heartbreak and longings.

I know me all to well and the thought of being with just one girl drives me crazy. I like the variety wayyyyyy tooooo much. The thought of stellar sex with a trophy for several days also drives me crazy.

Will Sandman succumb? I have interpreter contacting her to "clarify" a few things. If she answers correctly....well maybe she is in for a trip to Rio. If she doesn't, I can always mail her the photos. But, what if she decides to stay in Rio and doesn't go home?

If you see me in Rio with a stellar 9.5 on my arm getting away from the hordes at Alcazar, you will know the result. If you see me at Alcazar/Terraco chatting up garotas as they walk by you will also have your answer. If you see me doing both, you will know that Sandman has regained his senses.

I don't care how jaded you become in the hobby. Anyone can fall for these girls no matter what their ulterior motives are. As many women as I have been with over the years, I still find that the greatest sex is with those you are more familiar with and they with you. On the other side of that coin; I have still had some pretty damn fine ST/one time sessions with girls as well and never went back for repeats. Probably what keeps me on the quest and coming back for more. But, every now and then, you find one that just rocks your world and does things to your head....both of them...he he


Case in point...I am trying for another chance at non-pro beach babe on this trip...interpreter contacting her as well. She thinks its funny as hell!

Like I said earlier...can happen to the best of us and don't ever think you are immune. Almost as dumb as thinking you won't ever get an STD with unprotected sex. Do it long enough and you are bound to catch something........


Sandmanontwofences

It seems to me that few mongers are able to reisist the appeal of the "lightning bolt" chica. DonGringo has his BTG, BluesTraveler has his Patricia, and so on. Last time we saw BluesTraveler, he had stopped writing reports due to privacy concerns, but I'd be very surprised if he is not back seeing her again, at least sporadically.

I think it simply happens and we are powerless to prevent it.

That being said, I think we are just trading a generic addiction to Rio for an addiction to a specific girl. In other words:

Pre-specific girl addiction: I just gotta get back to Rio and fuck those gorgeous Garotas.

Post specific girl addition: I miss Patricia. I just gotta go back to Rio so I can see her.

So are we really that much worse off with the more intense relationships, which give us more satisfaction when they're occuring?

Maybe as long as we have friends to cure us with triplas when things go sour, we'll be ok.

D

I have always been the one to fall hard. You find a girl, seem to click and have a great time. You call send e-mails etc. etc. then the e-mail comes that always puts me back on a straight path.

Dear NYL,

I miss you, I am longing for you. Also I need $150 (or $200) because of (fill in the blank). blah, blah blah.

Once I get that e-mail I wise up. But during that time in Rio and the days that I return I am in heaven, thinking I have found the next one. Now I figure each trip I will try to find the "great next one" and wait for the e-mail to put me on the right path. Maybe one day that e-mail does not come. yea right. But I keep hopeing. :=)

Three points raised in the above posts that I would like to elaborate on.

1. The enjoyment question:

It seems fair to conclude that many people enjoy these honeymoons substantially more than they enjoy the hit-and-run mode. Sandman's thoughts of "stellar sex with a trophy for several days" resonated with me. For those who care about quality above all else, the rewards of honeymoons are unmistakable. However, as Epimetheus says, "Rewards are high, but so is risk." Of course the risk differs from one person to another, but let me point out that we do accept some level of personal risk, health risk, pregnancy risk, and even legal risk, for the sake of enjoyment in this hobby. It seems logical that a higher level of enjoyment (intimate honeymoon with a top girl of proven performance) can be worth the extra emotional risk. As Davidd points out, whether you are mongering or honeymooning, you are just trading one type of addiction for another.

2. The variety question:

Variety is definitely a lot of fun. It is fun in and of itself, like the variety in food for example. Furthermore,

(i) There is the fun of conquest. For some, this is at least half the joy. Of course, it is somewhat of an illusion of conquest in the p4p case, but, nonetheless, it is a source of great joy for many. If you are in this category, I can see why serial honeymoons may not appeal to you.

(ii) Just the potential for variety may be the important point. As Sandman says, "I know me all too well and the thought of being with just one girl drives me crazy." However, a hobbyist never has to be with only one girl, even if he is a serial honeymooner. As long as you are having a blast with your honeymoon, ride the wave. If you change your mind (or another girl changes it for you ), ride the new wave.

3. The relationship question:

Serial honeymoons are not relationships. Maybe part of the fun is that they give the illusion of a relationship, pretty much like mongering gives the illusion of conquest. Nyl12's remark about finding the "great next one" is spot on as far as characterizing what the serial honeymooner is all about.

Sabio,

Quit being so goddam complicated, you are giving me a headache!

S.

I think Sabio may be working on some kind of thesis here.

Man definately knows what he is talking about.

Wonder if some our other resident Psychologists would care to chime in here?

Sandmanwhoisleaningtowardsnotlosinghis bet

I actually haven't had an emotional attachment with a working girl since.......well, actually, never?! Must be my damned corazón duro, as a former TJ fav of mine once said.

I like the concept of serial honeymooning but I think a prerequisite should be having them with two different girls in quick succession. That way, if you start to fall for the first girl, a few days or a week later the new girl will make you forget the first one, and that will get your head screwed back on straight.

Cat...now you're talking

Sabio

"It seems logical that a higher level of enjoyment (intimate honeymoon with a top girl of proven performance) can be worth the extra emotional risk."

Logical from what POV?

Moneywise it can be EXPENSIVE to have a novia/honeyko/tirac!! Program girls all like gifts (clothes/jewelry/cell phones/etc) just like any other woman. Are you really able to tell her NO with any conviction if you both are having fun? You can end up blasting through quite a chunk of change with just one.

Exposure to health/pregnancy/legal issues is still about the same. Just because you concentrate on ONE girl does not necessarily mean she's disease free!! Also, when you're with one girl for a few days the level of intimacy goes up and sometimes people (in the heat of passion) forget to protect themselves as they should. This, of course, also leads to those pesky pregnancy issues!! As for legal issues - if the cops KNOW she's "working" then you've not reduced your exposure.

Variety is indeed the issue. My last trip to Asia included Thailand and the PI. I was with 54 different women in those two countries in 33 days. In that time I STILL had two different "honeymoon" sessions. Here's the story of the two:

The first one I had fun with. She was an ex-cherry that most people had never seen BF. I actually had people that know her come up to BOTH of us and ask if this was a BF!! I was having fun, but she got "possessive" and wanted a honeyko. Once she started thinking that way there was NO way I could keep her around!! I can be as big a prick as the next guy, but I'm unwilling to lie about stuff like this. It does nobody any good to mislead these girls. I set her straight and she's not happy, but not looking to hire a trike driver to knife me!!

The other one kind of surprised me. I STd her twice and finally LTd her (while part of my brain SCREAMED at me to run!!). She was the perfect courtesan. Even though her English was limited we fit like a glove. I left town for a bit and came back 10 days later. We were finally together one last day (LT the day before I flew home) and that made me realize I GOTTA stay away from this one or I'll let it eat me alive.

So, this last trip highlighted BOTH problems I run into with these honeymoon barfines. I've had ladies that I've gone back to again and again w/o a problem, but you sometimes run into the above situations.

Some hobbyists are able to blissfully walk through these shitstorms w/o getting their white suits dirty. I wander in and most times end up brown from head to toe!! I'm certain it's part of my personality that allows me to get to the girls and girls to get to me!! Do I think it's "love" or "proximity"? Who knows - a mix of both maybe?

E

OK, Slicey. Here is the "uncomplicated" version:

Listen guys, I love peanut butter, but I can't have peanut butter every day, you know what I mean? So I am with this gorgeous girl and another beauty comes along. I can't help it guys. Got to have her. So my gorgeous girl gets mad, but it's not like we are married or something. The heck with that. So I go with the new girl and man! what a bummer. She goes starfish on me, and I am now saying to myself: You blew it, man. Just dumped your queen for this no-good b****. So I go back and say I am sorry I love you and all this BS, and my queen takes me back and we have a blast. Better than ever I tell you. So guys tell me, should I stick with the queen for a while or go play the field? Darn, I wish I lived in Rio.

Epimetheus wrote: I was with 54 different women in those two countries in 33 days. In that time I STILL had two different "honeymoon" sessions.

Epimetheus: Could you please take me with you next time you go?

Sabio,

Do you pay for your "Queens" time or is she spending time with you for free? I think that says a lot.

For me that was what fucked with my mind. When the total pro (I mean this lady is a pro to the bone) refused money and said I don't want any of your money, I only want you. Stay with me at my apartment, no hotels, just you and me, I will quit this job for you and bartend, etc. Guys we were talking $700 US. Not chump change.

If the money isn't her motivating or a factor for you, then either she's gone to far or you both have gone too far. You aren't in a P4P situation anymore, and emotions are playing both of you. Tough situation to be in, believe me I know. I have to stay with ST, because LT gets way too complicated for me and the ladies.

If you're paying her, then it's all still in perspective isn't it? She's milking you as long as she can. She thinks to herself, "Hey I'll take him back cause when he's not around somebody else is paying me. If he pays me why not keep him on the line."

Not the best person for advice right now, but willing to give my 2 cents.

Later,
Real

Real_Thrill:

1. My opinion is to ALWAYS pay. This is a business transaction: You get sex, she gets money. It can be warm and friendly, but that should not confuse the business aspect of it. I happen to be very friendly with my maid and with my secretary, but I still have to pay them for their work.

2. I also consider it a no-no to send money to a provider. At best, she may be sincere and in real need, but then it would be tantamount to charity. I am afraid that my list of more deserving charities is quite long.

3. Another point is to pay a fixed, agreed upon, amount in cash. If you decide to treat the girl to a nice dinner or to give her a present, that would be on top of her wages, similar to anyone else who works for you.

4. The economy of honeymoons (and the hobby in general) obviously depends on the financial situation of each of us. However, I consider the biggest cost to be the health and pregnancy risks, not the provider fee.

The now-departed great philosopher-sage of Club Hombre, Strangelove (a.k.a. Byron) weighed in on this issue numerous times, as have others through the ages. Here's one of his classic posts. Most of his pontification on this topic is buried deep within the Mexico chat archives, I believe...

ClubHombre.com: Tijuana: Advice/Questions/Commentary: Two types of mongering: Horizontal and Vertical.
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By Strangelove on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 11:34 pm:  Edit

Before I disappear for good, I wanted to move some of my posts to the permanent place. I believe this one is useful for some mongers. Nothing I say here is original, but I like the simplicity of the terms.


Two types of mongering:

It has come to my attention that I can roughly classify mongering into two types, and I coined the terms for them: HORIZONTAL and VERTICAL.

HORIZONTAL mongering is the type in which the monger tries to do as many prostitutes as possible. VERTICAL mongering is the sort in which he attempts to conquer chica(s) as deeply as possible.

This classification does not mean that a given monger commits exclusively one or the other. I certainly have done both. However, each time I was with a prostitute, I think I knew which type of mongering I was currently in. Due to their natures, horizontal mongering precedes vertical activity; i.e. you survey chicas before you repeat with some. From my own experience, the distinction between the two activities could become evident rather quickly. When I met my girl, I sensed I would be going deep with her in the middle of the first session.

What I think worth pointing out is, these two types of mongering have conflicting interests. Most obviously, they share the limited resources (money, time, and cum). Thus, even the monger who does both must make a choice/sacrifice each time he goes up.

Then, there are mongers who are exclusively one, typically horizontal, and reject the other. This might come from the pure preference, or their belief system. In fact, for nearly 20 years, I was strictly horizontal, using the guiding principle of "don’t repeat, it is a waste". I don’t think I believed in the relationship/friendship with pros, either. Things have changed since then.

The presence of the two types of mongers also explains why the subject of naming chicas is often contentious among us. One poster suggested, "chicas are replaceable", so why should he care about their feelings? For the chicas I am only horizontal with, I might say the same. But, in vertical games, each girl is a unique prize.

I believe this note explains a large part of "different strokes for different people".

Purpose of the thread discuss the serial honeymooners.

For me, I can't do the long time dates anymore. It fucks with me too much. I guess I'm more of a romantic at heart. I'm not trying to be egotistical here, but on several occasions now I have pro's offering it to me for free. It really clouds things up. Yes it starts out as business, but at the point when a lady throws business out the window over emotions or feelings, somebody or both have gone too far.

Although my best session ever was on a LT date, ST keeps everything in perspective for me. Repeats have to become a no-no.

Later,
Real

Serial honeymoons seems to always cause problems from the neck up for at least ONE of the individuals involved.

I've had girls tell guys in the bar to fuck off so she could come over to see me that night for free. One actually quit her job and now lives in her province and she sends me emails all the time. She's lost perspective...

I've had girls that when I laid my eyes on them I couldn't stay away. I was a moth and they were fire. Problem with fire is it burns!! A LOT!!!!

Here in America, we start with meeting a girl, get together for coffee, a few dates, up the social ante a bit and eventually end up with sex and "I love you". Our hobby accelerates that process considerably. You meet a nice girl, chat her up for a bit, then end up with her knees in her armpits minutes later!! Now, if you're attracted to this lady and you spend a few days with her... you both have fun together, share intimate moments, walk around hand-in-hand...

Many times we pick our serial honeymoon partners for the wrong reasons. We're not grabbing the suck-start-a-harley girl, we're grabbing the ones that flip another switch. They make you feel GOOD when you're around them. Oftentimes the sex is good, but not necessarily the best part of it. She sees a need of yours and fills it. She becomes the glove on your hand... This is her JOB!!!!

This is what we've been programmed to think of as love. We're with someone that we're attracted to (what caused you to buy her that drink in the first place) and now you share something our culture views as the ultimate intimacy (sex) with a woman that you're attracted to. This is trouble waiting to happen...

This is when serial honeymoons go bad. For me, when things go south they REALLY fuck me up!! At least one person loses perspective and begins to make BAD decisions. This can cause serious bitterness on BOTH sides. Bad for both.

When serial honeymoons go good it's GOOD!! Both of you know the score and neither gets "clingy". You can go back to it later and it's still good. She sees you with other girls and waves. You say hello and buy her a drink and BS about old times. This tends to piss off your CURRENT BF, but that one's just a BF, yes?

You'd think that after all this time I'd have my heart coated with asbestos...

Sabio

You're welcome to join me on my next trip!! I've had 4 girls knock on my door at once for ST (cost was $24 total, I overpaid). I've BFd 3-4 at a time for WILD boom-boom parties starting at 1:00am and finishing 5 hours later!! I've had one girl spend days with me and confuse me... My trips are fun to watch if nothing else!!

E

I am surprised by how strongly people feel about the emotional involvement issue of honeymoons. It is clear that it is an issue, but the above posts convey stronger feelings than I anticipated. I would like to talk about this a bit.

As you gentlemen point out, the fact that the business transaction in the hobby is what we would otherwise associate with personal intimacy makes things tricky. Perhaps hit-and-run is less tricky than honeymoons because it is similar to one-night stands, which we do not associate with serious feelings anyway.

My question is: Does the problem arise because someone deep inside is looking for love, or it is inevitable even if we are just hobbying and know the score? If you want my opinion, I don't perceive a real risk of falling for a provider because of a honeymoon, if you approach it as just a different mode of p4p. Maybe catocony's suggestion is a good prescription if you feel vulnerable: Make sure there is more than one "active" girl at a time.

There are cases where things seem to be pointing toward a real relationship. Khun_Mor's Da comes to mind. This is definitely beyond the concept of serial honeymoons. It may be easy to confuse the two, and perhaps we need another 3x (or 2x, or 1x per year, or strict inter-leaving) rule for the honeymoons.

Sabio,

You are really getting deep on this thread and since you are, I think you need to expand beyond one dimension here.

Let's throw out some ideas on age;

Some younger guys that are studs and used to getting young pussy anyway probably don't think too much about the "Fucking a young 18-25 year old" as being too novel; They are probably more into the ST direction;

Other young guys I have encountered are shy, have been trodden on by women in the US and are beside themselves when they geat laid by a gorgeous, hot chica or garota and easily succumb to the honeymoon direction;

Now, let's go up the age curve a few years;

A late 30's to early 50's guy probably isn't going to get a second look from a 20 something US female so when it happens with a chica/garota and they know they can have this luscious creature for the price of a dinner out in the states, by all means they are enchanted. Some opt for the honeymoon quality direction while others go for quantity and take the "make up for lost time" ST approach.

Some probably do both, especially when they meet someone that rocks their world.

An American friend that happens to be a lady asked me why I go to Brazil so often. She coyly asked me if I had a girlfriend there. I smiled and shot back a saracastic response, "No, I have 5 that are all 18-25 year old hard bodies that fuck my eyes out" She snickered..."Yeah..right" (remember that one guys...couldn't believe it worked so well..he he).

What was funny was it was mostly true after I thought about it. Actually have more than 5 but 5 sounded like a good number..

So, Sabio....since I have no idea of how old you are, you may want to add this element to your investigations and study here. Might generate some different directions on the subject because I don't think it is a black and white issue.

Honeymoon or ST or both depending on the mood?

I'll bet ages, financial status, whether or not they are married or in a serious relationship and many other variables contribute to guys actions and preferences.

At least...that is MHO!


Saneman....no typo

Sandman, I hear you on the age aspect. I'm 54 and starting to get scared that my years of having fun may not be that many. Or maybe I'm just having another midlife crisis where I judge my life so far and find it seriously lacking in certain areas. Like female companionship.

Ten years ago I would have sneered at older guys chasing after someone half their age. Even more so with the guys who dump their wife of decades. Not any more though. The 20 year old hot body isn't really what I look for although I wouldn't say "no". Or "nao" as I am trying to learn. Ideally I like the woman in her 30s who is still in great physical condition and is emotionally and intellectually interesting.

Still, it is darn hard to deny the attraction of prime spots for horny guys where large groups of young women can be found for a reasonable price. The "normal" people can laugh all they want when I describe some aspect of another country and the women I have met. They can snicker or roll their eyes or condemn me to eternal damnation. I couldn't care less anymore.

As I have increased both the quantity and quality of women for hire in my life I have found a corresponding decline in interest in playing even the most basic games in what was once my "real" life. I just don't care anymore. At my age I wouldn't have a prayer for anything by a dented can of dog food in our society. Add the hassles of figuring where the woman is on the feminazi scale and it makes no sense at all to waste time and money for what at best could only be a pale copy of something I can easily find abroad.

Sooner or later I am going to get nailed with a honeymoon relationship. Only the fact that my trips have had cut off dates and not too many repeat visits to the same place have kept me out of trouble. And yet, I don't worry too much as long as the ending of some future relationship doesn't leave me or the other person with lasting damage. All relationships are based on need and the fact that you are directly paying someone for a set amount of time or activity doesn't make them any more or less "good" than Joe Sixpack who woes some lady the normal way.

Age is an interesting factor. I have been following the posts of two hobbyists on another board, one relatively young and the other relatively old (to remain unnamed so I can talk about them openly). The younger guy is into fast food (how many girls he can get in a short period of time). The older guy is into fine cuisine (takes his time munching on high-quality girls).

If you read different reports and posts, the lots-of-girls reports sound very exciting until you see the pictures. I remember when I upgraded my CH account and saw the pictures for the first time in reports that I had already read. I was certainly disillusioned. The quality of the girls was clearly compromised for the sake of variety. I would want to spend my vacation with only the top one or two of the girls in some of these reports, rather than sample even the top 50% of them. At least one third of the girls I would not be interested in even for free.

On the other hand, the fine-cuisine poster seems to be getting deep into one of his "meals" lately. The jury is still out, but I feel he is headed for trouble. I hope not, as he sounds like a cultured and decent guy. I have to concede the collective wisdom of the posters here. There is a thin line that separates honeymoons from getting hooked.

Choices, choices

I very much tend to follow a pattern. I like variety, but while I am interviewing candidates for my next honeymoon - and I usually have at least one or two honeymoons already underway.

Three times this has come back to bite me, in that things have gotten more serious than just the honeymoon, and some sort of relationship has started.

I have been very lucky, in that I was never taken advantage of the way I could have been. In two cases I did help the chica out with money outside the pay for play arena. But by then, in both cases, I was no longer paying the chica for sex, either. So that muddies the waters - A LOT.

One really made me feel like her novia. Once there, I wasn't sure that was what I really wanted! Although I have to say sometimes the sex was unbelievable. Other times I felt like I had a wife. ("Not tonight honey. Just hold me and cuddle.")

One was honest enough to talk about it, and we decided to be friends. That made pay for play with her more difficult, IMHO. It also made me feel somewhat restricted when I was in her bar.

The third one.... well, that one is a whole other story.

I am now approaching 50, and I will admit that this is a pattern that has developed over the past 5 years or so. I remember shortly after I turned 40 I went to TJ and did nine chicas that weekend.

In those days I did mostly shorter sessions, more of them, and only repeated when the chica was really good. In those days it was ALL about the sex. The last few years, I like a little more than that, which requires more time to get to know each other.

Just my 2 pesos....

Aldaron wrote in his recent trip report:

I’m never disappointed with this one and a familiarity is setting in that is nice. Some of you reading this may think why do I want to keep doing the same girl. By now I have blown the 3X rule to hell and its going to get even worse with her and Tiana in the coming days. Frankly, I’ve had my share of variety in Rio and there is something equally appealing about being with a girl you are comfortable with and know what you are going to get. From what I understand, the 3X rule applies to staying out of emotional attachments. I can handle myself. Before I ever left the States, I had a talk with myself. I knew I was going to be seeing a lot of beautiful women and that I was going to have to harden myself to avoid complications. These women have hardened themselves too, so you have to do it. These women will rip your heart out if you let them. I don’t let them.

Blazer started an interesting thread in the Asia chat about a Filipina that he is considering getting serious about. The thoughtful posts over there highlighted a point that I would like to get some opinions about.

I see people talk about p4p with lots of girls almost without repeats, and I see them talk about long-term relationship or marriage. I don't quite get it. Why are people interested in the two "extremes"?

If the goal is quality sex, a long-term relationship is hardly the way to achieve that. Arguably, neither is the hit-and-run sex (the argument being that the quality of sex improves with familiarity faster than the excitement of novelty wears off).

I honestly don't see why a hobbyist would want a committed, monogamous, long-term relationship even if it were with Miss Universe. (no offense meant to Australian hombres ). I am all for the honeymoon, even repeat honeymoons, but years of sex with one and the same woman?