I accidently corrupted this thread while moving it to the off-topic section. The following 72 posts were restored from e-mail backups.

By 76ers on Sunday, July 15, 2001 - 04:27 pm:

I like all women. As long as they are attractive, and slim
I'm into it. I have preferences, but for the most part I
can be attracted to any nationality/skin color/etc. As a
preference I like American girls, well, because I live in
San Diego and the genetics here are better than almost
anywhere else in the world.

If you go out to the clubs and dance you can pick up a lot
of ass. If you club it up a little clothing-wise, are
decent looking, and know how to talk a little sh*t you're
in. I was coming back from hanging out with one girl I've
been seeing last night and was getting gas when a pickup
truck with 3 girls coming back from the clubs pulled up
behind me. All 3 were HOT!!! Way hotter than 99.999% of
the chicas in the zona. I got one of their numbers after
talking to them for a few minutes (they were buzzed, and I
was still a little off from some activities earlier in the
evening). I just go through phases where if I get tired of
playing the club game I dig the no-hassle of hooking up with
tj chicas. But if I want some REAL hotties I work the local
talent. That's my 2 cents anyway...

P.S. 76er's next year baby!

By 694me on Sunday, July 15, 2001 - 04:55 pm:

Non American girls have a better attitude and do not have
the hang-ups that most American girls do.

By 76ers on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 01:43 am:

If you're basing it on cost, maybe you're looking in the
wrong places. If you want to get married spend a lot of
money. If you want to get laid (I don't think we're here to
marry the chicas in ZN) then it isn't more expensive than a
trip to tj. It costs $10-15 to get into a good night club
here in town. Spend another $20 in drinks for yourself.
Maybe $20 on a girl's drinks. You dance, and talk in
ENGLISH about whatever (definitely more entertaining than
stumbling through my knowledge of spanish), then take her
back to your place. Cheaper than 30 minutes with an AB
hottie (they definitely stay longer than 30 minutes), and
the girl is hotter. If they have attitude I move on to the
next one. Little more work (although the same if you try to
get a girl in one of the dancing clubs like La Tropa to go
up). Having it be straightforward in TJ is cool, and I
partake quite a bit, but I don't want to bag on a group of
women from which I will (probably) marry someday.

Somebody has to play devil's advocate, right?

By 76ers on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 01:45 am:

Oh yeah, I forgot to add something. The ones I've met at
the clubs here don't have too many hang ups. The sex is
always raunchier (unless you go with RM). If you are
straightforward about not being exclusive and don't get too
involved with the ones that are wanting to get married
you're good to go

By Lovepussy on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 08:58 am:

I doubt too many of us who are 40-plus and overweight would
have much success with the
18-19 year old girls in US nightclubs. For us, being able
to fuck several young girls in one night at a reasonable
cost is something we can only do over the border.

By Penecito on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 01:10 pm:

i agree...76ers , you are probably a stud with the
ladies...what the hell are you going down to tj for to get
laid..? just stick to latina clubs in los angeles....for me
i am about 5 feet tall, weigh about 200 pounds, balding,
glasses and a tiny little cock.....i doubt i would have much
fun picking up 18-21 year old american women..i just stick
to banging the 18-21 year old sgs for about $20 a pop....

By Joker on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 02:32 pm:

Yeah, it kinda begs a question why you'd still go to a
professional chica, when you can get any chicks here or in
TJ. Is there certain mystique about the Latin women or
prostitutes in general? I am always fascinated by them,
which explains why I monger this site.

I am approaching 30, but I don't think I can fuck several
girls in one night. How many girls do you usually do in one
night? And is it good every time you do it in one night? I
am curious.

By Athos on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 03:17 pm:

Joker
I am speaking only for myself but the reason I frequent bar
chicas is that it is a sure thing. And good time can be had
with most working chicas.
I guess I am on the oppostite end, I wonder why the hell any
guy would ever want to date any chick let alone marrying
one. Why get a chica for free when you can get her for a
fee? Like my friend at work says, I am institutionalized.

By Senor Pauncho on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 05:04 pm:

"I doubt too many of us who are 40-plus and overweight
would have much success with the 18-19 year old girls in US
nightclubs" ??
How about those of us who are 55-plus and very
overweight..... It's heaven to screw a beautiful young
woman for U$10-U$20. But even nicer, I've found a 30
year-old who isn't beautiful(but believes in SERVICE with a
smile), spent 3 hours with her, got my dick sucked for an
hour and-a-half (talked & fucked the rest), and paid only
Ninety bucks, plus the room. You can bet I'm going back -
frequently. And another - older and less attractive (Ellie)
does all nighters for U$40, and is still wet & warm (and has
nice sexy skin). If this keeps up, I may start fucking
their grandmothers.

Pauncho

By Toehead on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 07:19 pm:

While you probably wouldn't have much success with the 18
year olds I think you might actually have a shot with the
grandmothers here in the U.S.

By 76ers on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 09:02 pm:

Heheheheheh on that one. I can watch granny sex videos so
I may have to try that to talk a walk on the wild side :P

All I was saying that I like both groups of women for
different reasons. I value having a relationship where the
person actually wants to be there with you pretty high. I
can't have that with a working girl (not to pay them
disrespect; I really care for a few girls down there). To
say that you prefer working girls means that you never want
to marry somebody? Or at least have a relationship with a
woman? Maybe if you've been screwed over and are divorced,
I understand it. But I'm not ready to make that leap.
Sorry to be optimistic about women in general

By San_Puto on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 11:52 pm:

"I value having a relationship where the person actually
wants to be there with you pretty high

Do they really want to be with YOU or the person you tell
them you are?

"Sorry to be optimistic about women in general"

Oh, I have nothing against women in general. I have
something against women in the U.S., however.

BTW, I'd love to have a relationship with a woman.
Unfortunately, I'm honest, sensitive, funny (often told so,
anyway), communicative, etc., which, to most U.S. women, is
the same as having AIDS.

By 76ers on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 10:59 am:

I don't lie to get a American girl in bed. I am just
myself. They know who they're there with. Would your chica
girlfriend be staying the night with you if you didn't have
a wad of bills for her in your wallet?

I don't hook up with greedy american girls. The ones I talk
to are really cool. If they are gold diggers who are more
concerned with status than anything else, I figure that out
very quickly and move on to the next one.

The things you listed:
"honest, sensitive, funny" are turnoffs to american girls?
Maybe to american lesbians, but I think they don't want to
give you a blowjob for other, more obvious reasons. I'm
funny, honest, sensitive (in that order probably) to the
girls I talk shit to here. Maybe you should chew gum (it
may be your breath; just kidding).

By San_Puto on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 11:51 am:

"I don't lie to get a American girl in bed."
".... to the girls I talk shit to here."

Hmmm. Well, which is it?


OK, I'll bite.
What do you do (or tell them you do) for a living?
Does your income EVER come up?
What kind of car do you drive?
What do they look like, based on the "American Dream Babe
scale (i.e. Cindy Crawford, Ana Kornawhats her name, etc.)?

Are you saying you haven't noticed that most women in this
country are constantly harping about not being able to find
the man of their dreams, yet continue to choose loosers?

Do you agree with them that there are "no good men"?

BTW, how old are you?

By 76ers on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:26 pm:

I'm in my early 30's. You sound a little bitter; are you
divorced or something? When I'm out at the clubs, the girls
don't see what kind of car I drive. They might ask what I
do, but I don't have a glamour job. I never tell anyone how
much I make. They are all hotter than the girls in TJ (for
the most part; there are hot girls down there too). If the
girl is some harpy bitch that whines all the time about guys
nobody will talk to them (at least in the clubs; maybe
you're lucky enough to have them all go to your neighborhood
bar). All I've said is american girls that go out are after
the same thing that guys are after when they go out. To
have a good time, get wasted, and hook up. That's been my
experience in the dance clubs anyway. And there are some
UGLY mother fuckers pulling ass in there.

By the way, talking shit and lying are 2 TOTALLY different
things. Talking shit, talking trash, it is all just having
a flirtatious conversation with them. I don't talk about
politics; that usually doesn't get them to want to blow me.
There is more of a chase with US girls, granted, but
sometimes that is fun. Sometimes it is fun to have some
gymnastic sex with 18 year old farm girls from sinaloa. I'm
not disrespecting your opinion of latinas being better than
gringas. I have my own preferences too. As long as they
have a vagina however, I'm with it

By San_Puto on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 09:51 am:

You are correct. I do have issues.
However, I find American raised women to be much more
superficial and un-realistic then foreign women in what
interest them in the opposite sex.

I blame Disney, MTV, the ad companys, etc. in perpetuating
the fantasy that Prince Charming (read biker, rock star,
millionaire, etc.) will come and rescue them from their
boring life.

I didn't always think this way. It's the result of 40+ years
of listening to women say what they want in a man, and then
going for the opposite.

You apparently have something that attracts women who are
only looking to hook up for the night. Perhaps thats my
problem, I've always looked for relationships, which seems
to turn women off (in spite of what many of them claim). At
this point in my life, I wouldn't mind a few one nighters,
but I guess I just have the "lost puppy" look.

The sign of death for sure.

BTW, I "Talk Shit" with the best of them. Clearly, it takes
a little something else.
Hope you appreciate what you've got.

By Chargers on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 08:25 pm:

San Puto(nice handle BTW)

I totaly identify with what your saying. I had much the same
experience dating American women. Plus by the 3rd date thier
attitude towards relationships would turn me off.

When I started dating Latin women, it was jsutr the oposite.
Our attitudes, and personalities, just seemed to mesh. I now
wouldn't even consider dating, or marrying, anyone but Latin
women.

By San_Puto on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 11:09 am:

Thanks, Chargers. I needed that.
Your post brought a tear to my eye (sniff).

It's my own fault, I guess.
I actually BELIEVED women (and the media) up until a few
short years ago. You can't imagine the stupid things I've
done for them (women, not the media). Makes for a very
lonely life.

If only I'd enrolled in Lycos 101 ten years ago!

By Redongdo on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 12:45 pm:

Then you'd know a lot about search engines.

LEYKUS 101 would teach you how to leave your headlights on
and kill your battery when you forget on Fridays.

By Joker on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 08:39 pm:

Well, this is my perception of American women. They are
bitchy, possessive, self serving, and irresponsible. They
blame men on just about everything. They want to get
married like crazy, yet they do not put any effort into
stabilizing a relationship. They want all the attention from
their men. If a man forgets to say "I love you; you look
extra beautiful tonight.", then you can just forget about
sleeping until you can come back with a bouquet of flower.

They get upset with just about everything and bitch
constantly. Yet they think they're beautiful enough that
they can get away with such irrational behavior. When they
live with their men, they stop working and go into
hibernation. They claim that they need plenty of sleep
because of various physical ailments.

When they are forced to work, they complain about being
tired. You can just forget about free sex, cause you will
only get sex when they want it. And it's usually after
midnight. But you have to do it, otherwise she gets upset.
Or you can forget about sleeping until you give it to her.

On the other hand, hookers are unattached. They just want a
few hundred dollars, not your entire bank account. They
work. They never think about getting married to you. They
service your need, not hers. And most importantly you can do
it when you need it.

Well, do I sound bitter? Sure. Why shouldn't most married
men be bitter, cause women just do not have any
accountability and rationality.

Sorry to rumble, you guys talked about marriage, and it got
me upset. I am in my late 20. I fantasized about finding
that right woman. Now, I know how Al Bundy feels like. I am
trapped by a blonde spyder with a big hair.

By 76ers on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 09:58 pm:

Boy, it looks like I'm the only opposing voice here. I'm
sorry you guys have had bad experiences with American girls.
I've just had a different experience is all. Give me a few
years and a wedding noose around my neck (oops, I mean
wedding ring through my nose) and I may come to your way of
thinking. I was debating the question in respect to
American girls compared to TJ putas. If it is US hookers
vs. TJ hookers the TJ girls win hands down (I've seen some
of the $500 a half hour skanks in Nevada). However,
comparing sex with a U.S. chic and a TJ puta isn't fair. Of
course a hooker is more interested in satisfying you and not
bitching to you about the crap you're complaining about.
That is what they are paid for! I think we're comparing
apples and oranges here...

Also, if the relationship you have with your wife is bad, is
it totally the woman's fault? In some cases it probably is,
but have you stopped doing the things you did when you were
'courting' them? You might start out great and all
gentleman-ly, but then if you start watching sports on TV
all the time (I know I do) and stop being romantic with them
of course they don't want to fuck you!!! It is really easy
to blame someone else rather than take responsibility for a
bad relationship. That is what I have witnessed in friend's
marriages anyway. Is it any wonder I'm not married???

By San_Puto on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 10:29 pm:

Ah, the days of innocence and naivety. I remember them well.

If you read my earlier post you'll see that I said that I
USED to do all those things - and got nothing!
Now I do NONE of those things and still get nothing... but I
can spend my money on my computer! (Which, BTW, never tells
me it just wants to be friends).

And Redongdo, I may not know how to spell, but at least I
can tell a real girl from a, er, fake one.

By Redongdo on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 10:40 pm:

S. Puto,

At least I HOPE you did in time!

By Toehead on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 12:31 pm:

Basically the problem I have with most american women is
their just like most american men, i.e. selfish, spoiled,
self obsessed, materialistic, often lazy (sure I'm missing
something)..you put two people together with those qualities
and its only a matter of time before they're at each others
throats. Compound that with the mistake most guys make of
marrying a gal based solely on how good she looks with
little thought of her personality or if any real
compatibility exists in the relationship and its no wonder
the divorce rates are so high. When I've talked with latin
men about women they often feel AMERICAN women are the most
desirable, pointing out their beauty (especially blonds),
independence, self reliant attitude, etc..I always
respectfully disagree and insist Latin women are the most
beautiful and desirable. I think the old adage applies
"familiarity breeds contempt".

By Dog on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 02:03 pm:

The Latin dudes I talk to like gringas cause they give good
head. I'll second that but so do chicas. Deep stuff.

By Toehead on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 03:01 pm:

That's actually a good point Dog, the gringas are sexually
much more liberal then their latina counter parts who grow
up in a very conservative catholic society. The average
latina considers oral sex as being something only "dirty"
girls engage in, few are on birth control and having
intercourse means making babies as abortion isn't an option
for most.

By Dog on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 04:29 pm:

American chicas are also like Baskin Robbins: they cum in
many flavors. I've had great no pay for play sex with a
variety of Americanas: White, Cherokee, Vietnamese, Latinas,
Chinese, Indian, Mulato, etc... There is no one stereotype
of an American woman. Women are women when the lights go
down and the action begins. Party on.

By book_guy on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 06:40 pm:

If you are interested in meeting and getting for yourself a
mature, responsible, hot-looking woman, you have to offer to
her something that will catch her and keep her. She can be
found in many places ... although personally I tend toward
believing that the current American culture allows women to
really take very little responsibility for their own
wellbeing. If things go well, they congratulate themselves;
if things go poorly, they blame the man. Sex, in their view,
is something they only reluctantly trade for a rather large
amount of needy economic and emotional support, and,
unfortunately, most American males cooperate with this
charade.

Finding a woman who's willing to stand outside that social
construct, and be a full human, is a difficult task. It's
just as unlikely in any country. But finding a woman who has
OTHER ancillary benefits -- like, being a cheap puta; or,
having a high-paying lawyer's career -- is going to be
different in each country.

I personally hate the fact that my sexuality can, and often
is, used to manipulate me. I had thought that growing up
meant, once you left high school, BOTH partners wanted it
bad enough that they didn't manipulate the other with it.
But I've never been in a situation where the woman wasn't
like that. Either the chica wants my money and I'm paying
her to go away; or the gringa wants my soul, and I'm paying
her day by day. Either way, it isn't my nakedness freely
exchanged for her nakedness, and until that happy evenness
comes to pass, it's an uneven universe.

We all experience that trouble. I've been searching for a
solution for a long time. I'm just glad I didn't make the
mistake of assuming it was somehow "right" to get landed by
a princess who demanded a lifetime of economic support just
for a little bit of poon-tang, and then she got to sit
around filing her nails and complaining. We do raise a large
number of those in the United States, and most of us don't
even think twice about it. We just think, "Women are like
that." Well, no, it's not biological. All humans can live up
to a higher moral standard, male or female. The question is,
can you find 'em and get 'em to enter into your life?

By book_guy on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 06:54 pm:

PS - 76er, I'm definitely jealous of your view of club
life. You say "All I've said is american girls that go out
are after the same thing that guys are after when they go
out. To have a good time, get wasted, and hook up. That's
been my experience in the dance clubs anyway. And there are
some UGLY mother fuckers pulling ass in there." I have to
admit, that's NEVER been my experience. I would have said,
before reading your testimony, 76er, that girls that go out
are after something very different from what guys want.
Girls that go out, as far as I know, want to compare to see
who can be the bitchest, who can mislead and tease the most
men, and all in all very very very few of them intend to
actually hook up (whether that means, an actual
one-night-stand right away, or just exchanging phone-numbers
to date at a later time) at the end of the evening. Girls go
to clubs to mislead. I'm in my mid-thirties, decent looking
or even good looking, very fit, have a good exciting job,
and I'm educated and articulate. What is this "talking shit"
that seems to work such wonders for you, 76er? I'm jealous
as hell ...

Anyway, here's a change of topic -- how many of you would
take your own advice, and STOP visiting TJ if you could pull
chicks in the dance clubs in LA? I mean, I certainly don't
feel that going to cheap whore-houses is my personal calling
in life. I'd rather have intense, intimate relationships
with women whose real names I knew (and the guys who do
hook-up long term with the TJ chicas are evidence that they,
too, want something more than the $40 hotelroom
interchange). I'd rather not be DRIVEN to providers. I'd
rather that American chicks not be so frigid as to FORCE me
to get my poon south of the border. I guess 76er likes it
both ways. What do you other guys say?

By 76ers on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 01:08 am:

You already know my vote ;)

I'm not some big player. All I do is look for girls that
look like they're having a good time dancing or whatever,
and if there is chemistry, buy them a drink (or maybe not;
it isn't a prerequisite). Maybe it helps that I go to clubs
where some people do E (I don't partake in that drug).
Hehehehehe! Maybe I thought it was my game and good looks,
but meanwhile I've been picking up on girls that are
rollin'! That would be a bitch It probably has
happened a few times (but not every time).

I'm sorry to say this but alot of the people in this thread
sound awfully bitter, and I'm sorry you feel that way about
relationships. I hope you guys meet somebody that makes you
happy. Whether it is a hot latina or a hot chinese girl or
whatever. I only want the best for everybody No
disrespect indended from my past emails!

By Toehead on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 11:07 am:

The girls that go to clubs have a very narrow agenda in
terms of what their looking for. If you fit in that agenda
you'll have a shot at hooking up with one, otherwise your
just another horney loser (girls perspective). In an ideal
world the gals would go to the clubs with an open mind and
not form an opinion about a guy until they've talked with
him for awhile, unfortunately that's rarely the case. Most
gals have already formed their opinion about you before you
even open your mouth, in the rare event they haven't
completely
dismissed you the next few words that leave your mouth will
decide your fate.

Twenty years ago when I was in my club going prime I would
often meet a gal at a club then later we'd have sex. Then I
started going to the punk clubs, at first I was having about
the same degree of success as I was at the "normal" clubs.
Then I cut my hair into a mohawk, suddenly I became "The
man", same guy, just a different hair cut. Honestly it
didn't matter WHAT came out of my mouth when I was talking
to these girls, they'd already decided I was exactly what
they were looking for, i.e. someone who would attract
attention, thereby bring attention to themselves. Of course
that was twenty years ago and short of becoming a celebrity
or fabulously wealthy I don't see myself repeating that
again. Sure if I was twenty three I wouldn't be paying for
it, however I can still drive down to the Zona and have
beautiful women eager to hook up with me, it may be a
contrived fantasy of passionless sex but I can except it for
what it is.

By San_Puto on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 03:20 pm:

"I'm sorry to say this but alot of the people in this
thread sound awfully bitter, and I'm sorry you feel that way
about relationships."

Perhaps so many of us are bitter because we've learned how
things REALLY work. As for myself, it sucks because
throughout my childhood we were taught "just be yourself"
and "Honesty is the best policy" and other crap that turned
out to be all but useless in my life.

Whenever I hear a woman talk about there being "No good men
left", I just want to smack her!

By San_Puto on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 03:50 pm:

Toehead,

My current belief is that the key to American bitches, er
women is MFP: Money Fame Power.

Any one of these will open the American pussy floodgates.

Look at the interest young women have in having affairs with
politicians. Or rock stars. Or athletes.

It dosen't even have to be THAT straightforward.
Bad boys represent a sort of power. Even semi-bad boys are
hot with American bitches.
Foreign men = uniqueness = a sort of power, power that most
other women don't have.

Your mohawk represented a kind of fame/power to those punk
girls (not sure what having a toe for a head represents to
them though).
Hell, even serial killers have young babes pining over them
in the US!

I'm not saying women from other countries don't like those
things, I'm just saying I get a MUCH better reaction from
them.


If I knew then what I know now...

Hmmm... That sounds like a new topic!

By Ootie on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 05:36 pm:

Gentlemen:

Although I agree with most of the thoughts in the previous
posts, let me just say that it's always dangerous to
stereotype ANY group (even women) with phrases that begin
with "they all" or "every woman". Some of you seem to be
basing your opinion of all women based on your club
experiences. And you'd be correct too if all women went to
clubs. But all women do not go to clubs.

There's a perfect woman somewhere in the world for every
man, but you have to meet each other first. And for most
men, it won't be in a club. And for some men, it won't be
anywhere because they are either always looking in the wrong
places or they have given up the search entirely.

A Will never give up kind of guy,

Out-of-Towner

By San_Puto on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 09:28 pm:

"for some men, it won't be anywhere because they are either
always looking in the wrong places or they have given up the
search entirely.

A Will never give up kind of guy,

Out-of-Towner"


Well of course there are some exceptions. everything has
some exceptions.

As for there being a perfect woman for every guy somewhere
in the world, my comments were limited to AMERICAN women.

But since you mention it, NOTHING is perfect.
And since you say you'll never give up, I'm going to go out
on a limb and guess you haven't met the love of your life
yet.

Lucky you.

Now, how are we supposed to make out the wrong places from
the right places?

By Innocent on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 07:37 am:

I've just about totaly lost interest in America chicks.
Living thiry minutes from the alley surely
gives me a biased opinion. I have been fortunate enough to
live in Puerto Rico and Brazil about two years in each
place. It was all girlfriends no pros what can I say.

I guess the grass is always greener. I hear the Mexican
guys like blonds. Go figure they've never done anything for
me.

I look around at all my buddies who are all married or
partnered with American chicks and it looks like everyone is
really suffering. I'm talking real pain man.

No one , I mean no one is happy. They are being worked to
the max by high maintainace cunts that never are satisfied.

Mabey it's just my acquiantances. Do you see differently?

If you looking for a sexual Disneyland close to home the
some chicas in the zone can definitely take you there.

However if you want to settle down (or try to)

it's hard to beat old school Thai/Chinese girls.
Get the right one from a good family and you will have a
devotee for life.

By Toehead on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 09:58 am:

The fact that all your friends appear to be suffering might
have more to do with the condition of being married more
then who they're married to. I was married to a very sweet
latin gal for a number of years and found myself bored
beyond belief. I really missed the thrill of meeting and
pursuing someone new, plus there's the day in day out tedium
and predictability of it. Some guys are just better cut out
for marriage than others.

I think we know not ALL women are like the women in dance
clubs, who tend to be younger and probably more superficial,
we were just discussing the difficulty in meeting women in
clubs. Personally I think for the average guy dance clubs
are one of the worse places to attempt to meet a gal,
especially a guy whose at all shy.

Now where's a GOOD place to meet a "normal" gal? I can only
speak for myself. One good place is to take a dance class
(salsa?swing?), even if your a complete klutz you'll still
meet a number of women at every class and if you go often
enough you might actually become proficient at it, then you
can start going to clubs that specialize in that style of
dance.

By Joker on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 10:44 am:

Nah, it's not the boredom of American women that
dissappoint many men. As for me, the sex is great. I
sometimes wonder what it's like to do another woman, but I
know it won't be as good. It's everything else. I am not
sure about women of other nationality, but American women
seem to be very short tempered. They have no accountability
or rational. And they are always hanging by you. I just
need a space from my wife some times. I asked to sleep
alone on the sofa, then she threw fit and accused me of
cheating on her. I am not bored with my wife. She is
exciting every minute non-stop. I just need a break from
that. I look at my wife sleeping on my shoulder and wonder
if her neck is sore. Cause my shoulder is sure sore.

I am certain that even American women can be rational and
responsible of their own action, but I know that's pretty
rare. My buddy dates many women at the same time, and he is
up front about it to anyone. When any of his girl friends
show any signs of distaste, he just dumps them. He has
vowed to me that he will never marry any one of his girl
friends. That's all because American women are not good for
marriage.(I didn't believe this, but I am really convinced
of this now.) And he and I understand this. But the sex
sure is good.

Which brings me back to the original question of what about
chicas that is so exciting? What are their fundamental
differences? Toehead said it was the boredom, but boredom
is better than pain and suffering at the hands of American
chicks. If I find out Mexican women are much more stable,
patient and better in bed than American women, then I would
seriously consider ditching my wife. Maybe handing this
blonde chick from hell over to one of you. (Don't worry, she
is 38DD-26-36, 26 yo, and an ex model. So she ain't ugly.)

By Kendricks on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 01:20 pm:

Innocent,

I sometimes think you must be my alter ego, who writes my
thoughts and experiences onto this board without the
knowledge of my other personalities. It is uncanny how
right you are about virtually everything. With very few
exceptions, everyone I know who is married to an american
chick is leading a tortured life.... I could never
understand all of the fuss about blondes, either.

Kendricks

By Toehead on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 03:21 pm:

JOKER wrote..."I would seriously consider ditching my
wife..Don't worry, she is 38DD-26-36, 26 yo, and an ex
model. So she ain't ugly".

Toehead wrote (somewhere further up)..
"Compound that with the mistake most guys make of marrying a
gal based solely on how good she looks with little thought
of her personality or if any real compatibility exists in
the relationship and its no wonder the divorce rates are so
high"..Though 38DD's would be hard to say no to.

This is great, I can just start cutting and pasting without
coming up with any new material.

I didn't intend to say Latin women are boring, I said "I"
became bored. I LOVE Latin women, I'm living with one now
(her kid is driving me nuts though). I was probably just too
young to have gotten married..still had a few oats to sow
(I'll be sowing 'em till I'm 70 at this rate).

Kendricks, I have 2 sisters that are beautiful, tall and
blond..and would be UTTERLY WORTHLESS as wive's, he who
marries one has my sympathies..or NOT, these guys will get
what they deserve.

By Innocent on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 05:55 pm:

Kendricks,

I'm glad you feel that way. It's allways good to find a
kindred spirit where ever it may be. I have not taken this
board very seriously in the past and used it at times for
attemps at satire,
sarcasm or just plain old ball busting. I've noticed I
never got much play.

Then one day I was commenting on one of Wesfargo's
posts and I can't remember who but someone said my comments
where terrorizing. I sat back and had to think and looked
at my post and couldn't figure where that was comming from.

I allways had the reputation of being a wise guy and even
now seem to often be in the center of controversy. I say
what's on my mind and it does often go against the flow of
the majority. I do definitely march to the beat of a
different drum

Life is short you have to speak your truth, hopefully
without malice. I have a very busy medical practice and
teach in between. (one of the guys posted that saying I was
a physician was one of the talles ttales he had heard on the
board). Hey truth is stranger than fiction. I have so much
responsibility and the pressure of being a good dedicated
family practicioner today gets to be so much that when I get
a chance to stop I think I like to become Mr. Hyde and
create a little mayhem.

I look at it as kind of the yin / yang of being the healer
and of being the pirate. The Bhuddists say the bigger the
front the bigger the back. Or the brighter the light the
darker the shadow. TJ has been the perfect place to lead a
double life and blow off lots of steam.

Based on some of the good advice from recent posts though, I
am definetly trying to throttle back.
I allmost went down today after I finished with patients.

I was thinking yeah, Durex ulta sensitives, yea that's it.
Just keep the condoms on for everything, yeah that's the
ticket. All I'm really concerned about is getting sick and
worse getting my wife sick. But just keep the condom on
everythng will be ok.

I'll probably go down tommorrow. Let's plan to meet
sometime soon. Good Health...

By Kendricks on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 06:40 pm:

Thanks, Innocent. Feel free to email me at jdk00@yahoo.com.

Kendricks

By book_guy on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 09:49 pm:

These are interesting points, although I'm a little
disappointed that folks haven't addressed one thing that's
nagging me. So, I'm gonna ask something, but here's the
preamble. Do me the favor of hearing me out ...

I think, currently, the thread is discussing one thing --
hooking up on a permanent, or at least semi-permanent basis.
All this about the pro's and con's of marriage; and whether
the grass is permanently greener on the other side; and what
Latin men "want" in a long-term partner, etc.

Furthermore, there's a significant point that many authors
in this thread make, about some of the problems with
marriage. But MOST (note that I did not say "all") the
respondents in this thread, are assuming that marriage IS
the major version of "hook up" that is an option. I
personally don't limit myself to such culturally sanctioned
choices. I think I would like figuring out the arrangement
for myself, rather than buying the one pre-packaged deal
that society has forced upon us (a deal which, we here will
mostly have to admit, is much more beneficial to the women
than to the men in about 75%, give or take, of the instances
of it in the US, if not the world over).

But I was kind of wondering about another thing -- HOW to
hook up. See, when I asked 76er what his "magic formula"
was, for meeting women that he's interested in "civilian"
dating with, I wasn't necessarily meaning to imply that I
was interested in a permanent pair bond. 76er, I don't want
your advice for marriage (hee), I just want your advice for
pick-up. I'd be willing to shuffle through a larger number
of women to see which ones were closer to someone that I
could spend a long time with, and maybe have some fun along
the way. In fact, 76er pretty well voiced my frustration (in
converse) when he said, that if he were 23 again he'd be at
the clubs pulling again.

See, when I was 23 I wasn't pulling chicks, I was pulling
pud. When I was 17 I wasn't pulling chicks; nor when I was
29; nor now that I'm nearing my 40s. I'm kind of glad I've
"found" the idea of providers, because it means I'm not an
emotional wreck. I can actually have a human hold me for a
brief period of time, long enough that the deadly sperm
build up redirects itself and I can pay attention to life
for a while. A short while. Unfortunately.

I hate going to the beach. I used to love sand and wild
porpoises and boats, but now all I see is a chance to share
something wonderful if only some chick would share it with
me. I hate going to restaurants. I'm a gourmand, a very
careful and discerning palate, I've even trained to be a
"nose". But now I dislike it because the only people who
accompany me there are either getting paid by me (as in, I'm
their boss and they had to go) or getting paid by me (as in,
for her time). And so forth. There's a soul looking for
bonding and too many women forgetting that bonding is what
it's all about.

So these folks who just "assume" you "hook up," don't
realize that THEY ARE A MINORITY. They may just hook up; but
most of us don't. Whether it's in a night club, or an
ecstasy club, or a punk rock club, or a social dance class,
or walking alone on the beach, or playing weekend
volleyball, or going to church, or going to a political
rally, or going to a conference ... most males aren't
getting fucked enough for us to think we're living a
balanced life.

For me, the equation is simple. If I thought that I could
find success with "civilian" women who were to my liking
(and yes, I've TRIED the old adage of "lowering" my
standards, and raising them, and changing them, etc.), then
I WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN PROVIDERS. Period.

I wouldn't have been driven to them. I wouldn't have needed
them. I wouldn't have lost so much time and money to them. I
wouldn't be angry at myself for not being able to resist
them. I wouldn't be angry at North American women for the
manners in which they abandon the important part of the
"game" of meeting (that is, getting to know the other
person) and totally, utterly obsess on control and
manipulation. I don't want to be so angry at all those
people I haven't met, those NOrth American women who
wouldn't give me the time of day; I'd rather actually MEET
them. And so on and on and on. It's a vicious cycle, all of
which comes back around to "how can you get a woman
interested in you?"

Nobody has any suggestions, except for one noteworthy post
-- MFP, says San Puto. I frankly disagree categorically. I
think it has to do with skills. I actually have two of the
three quantities of money-fame-power, in some great degree
(don't know whether you guys would be impressed or annoyed
by me telling you what degree; anyway); and I know I'm
decent looking, and not a social klutz. I also know
SOMETHING'S been missing ever since I hit puberty ... a
willing partner.

Any suggestions? I'd love to hear that other men felt the
same way. Maybe guys who "hooked up" and ended up getting
"hooked" into marriage, realize now what it is that caused
their eventual wives to get attracted to them. Maybe guys
who have gotten married and gotten out, would like to beat
me with a brick bat and suggest that I have the greatest
opportunity on the earth given to any man, that of being
free of a woman's nagging. Maybe guys who are experts at
going to Tijuana, can suggest to me ways for me to handle
the emotional impact that often hits me, of realizing that
I'm "such a loser" that I HAVE to get laid at Tijuana, or
nowhere. I know, I know, that's a silly attitude ... but it
still feels that way.

I'm new to this forum, and this is heady discussion. I hope
you'se guys can just send me a signal or two that you hear
and understand -- you don't even have to agree. I'd like to
add, that I know that in general looking for emotional
support from a provider is silly ... it's like looking for
sex from a wife (ahahahaha). No, really, she's paid for
PHYSICAL stimulation, and all that emotional stuff that
might come along with the package is just icing on the cake.
I'm aware of that, so I didn't want my post to mislead
anyone into thinking I felt I could find "true solace" in
the arms of a provider, or that I expected to find it, or
sought it. No, I get the restrictions. This is a game played
with half your heart.

Too bad. I would rather play the other game, the one with
the WHOLE person, not a facsimile, just once. Is there
something wrong with me? Should I see a doctor? (Heh, that's
a joke.) No, I know I'm simply an average North American
male. 60% of the guys I know feel almost exactly the same as
me -- "yeah man, chicks are FUCKED UP and they are SOOO MEAN
unless you are Errol Flynn." We all play the same tune.
Sometimes it hits me in my self-esteem, and I start thinking
"I am such a loser." Most of the time, though, I'm capable
of seeing through that, and realizing that *I* am not the
person making the mistake. The woman in the equation is the
stupid one, passing up on meeting me, even though I'm (I am
confident of this usually) such a good catch.

Some of us, however, never fell into this trap. Maybe one or
two of you lucky ones could help a fellow to climb back out?

By 76ers on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 11:02 pm:

"I'm not saying women from other countries don't like those
things, I'm just saying I get a MUCH better reaction from
them."

I'm sorry San Puto, but I couldn't resist quoting you. I've
seen my words cut and pasted a few times now, so I want to
join the club :P

Anyway, I'm curious: Are the women from other countries
that you get a much better reaction from normal girls, or
working girls? Just wondering; I want to know the context
(I'm looking for the deeper meaning in everyone's posts ;)

By Kendricks on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 11:22 pm:

Book guy,

Thanks for opening up like that. I know I find it very
cathartic to open up like that, and spill my guts into
cyberspace.

Life is full of cruel jokes. When you don't have a steady
source of love and affection in your life, you long for it.
Once you have it, you are likely to feel trapped, especially
if you know the joys of picking up a hot, wild, sexy
stranger from a club, and screwing her like there is no
tomorrow, with no strings attached.

No woman will ever be with you, or anyone else, unless she
believes you are fulfilling some need she has, whether it is
to be taken care of, to be like the rest of her friends, to
be a sperm donor for her to crank out crotchfruit, etc. The
"provider" deal just cuts to the chase, and allows both
parties to get what they want in the short term, with no
strings.

I wish I had an easy answer for you. But, in my experience,
there is no lasting happiness, just fleeting pleasure and
momentary delusions. So you might as well just make the
most of them. Personally, I take comfort in the fact that
someday, you, I, and everyone we know will all be dead, and
none of this will have mattered.

Sorry if this post turned out to be a downer, I just felt
the need to open up a vein and bleed into the keyboard a
little...

Kendricks

By San_Puto on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 11:42 pm:

76ers,
Normal (whatever that is) girls.

My guess is people from every country are looking for
something different.
I happen to be two things that make me repel American women:
very nice and very shy.

If you don't agree then you can't be very much of either.
Believe me, reguardless of what they say, there's a reason
why these women end up with insensitive jerks so often!

By El Gato on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 12:31 am:

Hey book guy...

How to hook up? Probably not the best place to ask as many
of us don't put a lot of energy into trying. For me, it's
not a matter of not believing that I can't hook up with
American women on my own, but the time commitment that's
involved. I'm reaching the age where every women I know has
or wants a serious commitment. Me? I want to dance, play
volleyball, develop in my professional career, and lots of
other things. I hardly have time to do the things I want to
do without a relationship.

Now, if you're willing to commit the time, and a lot of it,
I don't think the meeting part will be that difficult.
However, maybe maintaining interest will be a challenge. I
don't think you can sneak off for sex trips and seriously
pursue a relationship at the same time. So your pursuit will
probably mean sacrificing your sex life for a while.

You'll need to understand that you'll probably make
mistakes, a lot of them. You'll say the wrong things, you'll
fall for women who might not be compatible, you'll fall
victim to circumstances you have no control of, but each
time you'll (hopefully) learn a little but and be further
along on finding the right girl.

I also think you need to go easier on yourself. Feeling bad
about sex is in my opinion one of the most damaging aspects
of relationships in America.

Which brings me back to the topic of this thread: American
women vs chicas. I think American women have a very
difficult time dealing with the contradictory messages sent
by US society. If they dress sexy and are sexually open,
they're sluts. If they dress conservative and are not
sexually open, they're prudes. They're driven to both
promote and surpress their sexuality at the same time, and
this conflict messes with many of their minds. Some of them
will play games and become manipulative so as to gain
"control" of the situation.

Women in other parts of the world, be they latina, asian, or
even caucasians in more liberal countries, are less likely
to see sexuality as a conflict. Even in highly religious
countries, the reality of selling one's body to provide food
and shelter breaks down those walls of seeing sex as
something bad.

Men all over the world don't need to worry about such
things. We're all dogs and are often expecting to think with
our lower head.

Ah...I feel like I'm rambling. Let me summarize. Just take
it easy. Decide if you want to have fun with chicas or if
you want to pursue a serious relationship. Don't feel bad
about what you've done in the past and realize you always
have the freedom to change your mind.

Now go get laid.

By Innocent on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 08:19 am:

Bookguy,

Clinical counseling is not my specialty but it is certainly
part fo my training. In your post you say mabey you need to
talk to a doctor, well like the commercial says, "you just
did".

My curbside immpression is you sound pretty darn normal to
me. I hear your frusration but don't judge yourself to
harshly. You sound like your
physical and financial assets are intact so mabey your just
trying to hard.

Money, good looks and a hot car have always been kind of the
abc's of getting chicks but nothing else drives 'em crazy
like being detached from the results of your encounter.

Your post is heavy and needs to be examined on many layers.
For now my opinin for what it's worth is to relax and enjoy
your self and keep the condoms on. You'll sleep better at
night.

You do sound a little confused. You are in a big club here.
We all got opinions then go to TJ and get crazy.

I think you need to try to get a little clearer on what you
want. We all want our cake and want to eat it to.

There is an old Bhuddist saying that says to the effect that
if you try to pick up sand how will you be able to get more,
by grasping a handfull and holding on as tightly as you can
with white knuckles or by relaxing and opening your hand
while you gently scoop up a nice pile.

Some how or other we have to try to understand that we are
just where we are supposed to be. If
your interested un hot chicas I'll see you in the zone. If
your interessted in marriage I an get to know you and have
my wife introduce you to one of her gorgeous nubile
girlfriends in Thailand.

Actually the best ones are most concerned about if the man
they are meeting has a GOOD HEART. If your not sure what
you want once again your in a big club here so welcome and
good luck.

By Balam on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 01:19 pm:

Hey book guy,

Just wanna say that your post brought my heart up into my
throat--*I* could have written that (had I your eloquence).
It sounds like you COPE with the situation pretty well for
the most part. So do I. Prostitution is indeed a wonderful
thing and it makes ME, probably you too, less hostile and
bitter. But even if you don't let this get the better of
you, it stll HURTS a whole fucking lot; and being told to
relax doesn't really do the trick. I DO know what I'm
missing by not being able to hook up at ALL--I mean at
ALL--because I've had relationships that have been good--not
permanent, but good for a while. I know what it's like to
feel really well cared for and to break down the walls with
another person. And btw I've got my own share of all three
of MFP, I'm in my mid-40s, I'm not Adonis but not overweight
or bad looking, and I'm even not-so-bad a salsa dancer; if
anything I've perhaps got an overly strong sense of
entitlement which just fuels the despair.

Well anyway book guy, I really wanted to thank you and to
empathize; and I'd be very interested in discussing this
some more offline, give me a holler at qitze@yahoo.com if
you like...