Watched about 12 hours of Womens World Cup football
Came to these conclusions:
Just about all the halfway decent looking women footballers are from the Scandinavian countries.
All the brazilian womens footballers are REALLY ugly. I guess if you can't make it in the boites or termas, you might have a future in football. The exception to this is the womens football pictures posted here before. It is obvious they do not come from Brazil.

My conclusions about WWC are as follows:

1) Top-level women's football (which this supposedly is) is about on par with 3rd-division men's football in any civilized nation (read NOT USA).

2) If it weren't for US soccer mommies this thing wouldn't even exist. Not to mention Sep Blatter's willingness/need to make a buck out of anything with 11 players and a round ball. Hell, if he could FIFA-ize amputee football or robot football (both of which do exist), he would.

3) As further proof that this thing is meant for soccer mommies, if it was meant for guys, the telecasts would be nothing but closeups of the scandanavian teams you mentioned. The refs would make plenty of convenient "miscalls" (shades of Korea in the semifinals in 2002), and the final would be Norway v. Sweden!

4) You're absolutely right, the brasileiras are FUGLY (with the exception of the goalkeeper, who looks suspiciously scandanavian). Even the CBF (Brazilian Football Assoc.) recognizes this, as they bought on Milene Domingues (Bald Ronaldo's somewhat cute football-playing wife) to give the team some pizzaz and good pub in Brazil - much to the disgust of the other players, considering the fact that her football skills are rusty, to put it mildly. Now if Sheila Carvalho could only play football....

BS

I completely disagree!

I was refering only to the outward appearance of the womens football players.

Most of these women, and especially the US are superior athletes. thier skillsets are among the best. It is true because of their stature and size they do not have the power or physical-ness of the men. But they are exemplary athletes nonetheless.

In scrimages and some close door matches against mens teams the US women's team has held their own and even beat their opponents.

There is a HUGE gulf between the womens's football teams around the world. The difference between the Womens US and Nigerian soccer made the match difficult and somewhat painful to watch, and don't even mention Argentina.

The football programs for US Womens teams have been around for over 20 years, Nigerias and Argentina's. probably 5.

The interest in Women's football aroung the world., ie. outside Europe and North America, stated in earnest after the 1999 WWC. It was only then that money was really provided by their national federations. The learning curve in some countries is fast. Brazil was a peripheral team, having maybe one or two good players. It is now an emerging powerhouse of women footballers, because of the coaching, facilities and talent scouting going on in the most prolific football country in the world. (unfortunatly their footballer are still FUGLY) It's true that Ronaldo's wife was brought on the team for publicity, BUT remember Ronaldo met her at a womens football match where she was a player.

If you go to any pro baseball game, most of the families there had, at one, time little leaguers that they brought to the practices and games by their fathers and mothers, you could call them baseball moms. Time and demographics have changed the sport, but not the way people have grown to love it, among them family participation.

The demise of the WUSA was not due to the lack of interest by fans, but by the piss poor management. Several executives of the league had not witnessed a single live football game before assuming their positions.
Teams were located in areas where there was no football/soccer history and ignored in the hotbeds of womens soccer mainly the white suburban areas, hence there were no teams in suburban LA or Orange county, hotbeds of womens soccer.

The attendence at the WWC is lower than 1999 true, but with only about 3 months to market the event, and having the event in direct competition with US football and baseball season was unavoidable. This was planned for and the crowd in some venues are still big and enthusiatic!.

This still doesn't explain why most of the womens's footballers are pretty ugly, but then if you look at most of women's sports, with the exception of the Anna Kournikova's, there is a lot to be desired. Still ABC picked Heather Mitz, a pretty blonde as an anchorperson for ABC's coverage, so they are out there.

But if you want womens soccer to explode I can only
say:

NUDE WOMEN PLAYERS

that will bring them in and although they might not be very pretty, they won't be fat and in my book nude women can't be all bad

OG

Heheh, Playboy do Brasil did a spread of a nude womem's soccer team last July (acutally they were wearing socks and cleats). Very, very sexy, especiallythe locker room scenes...

As for quality of football played by women's teams, I'm sorry it's just not the same crisp ballpay, incredible playmaking, and overall skill you see in the top men's clubs. Of course, that's not becuase the women aren't as good, there's just a smaller talent pool to choose from than there are with the men (less women involved in footie) and therefore less superstars. Still, USA women's team is nowhere near, Brazil men's national team, or Real Madrid, or whatever other 1st level men's team you care to mention. A good 3rd-division team, yes. Howver, as a footie nut, I still enjoy it, and any football on US television is better than none.

Cheers!

BS

I love watching good women's footie ... I think the game is inherently more tactical than the men's, mostly because the women can't whack the ball well over one of the field's zones and into an unrelated area, but instead must work the ball by possession across almost every blade of grass between them and the target.

There are times at lower levels where you just get inept athleticism. My first live women's game was a warmup friendly to the 99 WC, between Australia and Canada in Toronto. I was unimpressed. Amazingly stupid things were happening, including several of the women running to one spot on the field to try to compete for a keeper punt's arrival, all to find out that the first person's judgment (which they'd all rather sheepishly followed) as to where the ball was going had missed by about ten yards. Boink, the ball bounces as six women leap somewhere in no near proximity to it.

But that poor athleticism turned out to be more a function of the weakness of those two teams, than a weakness of the women's game in general. Hamm and Parlow don't run to the wrong spot on the field often.

I am sometimes a little bored by it, when it doesn't get very electric for long periods of time, but that's a risk for any Serie A game as well. The imbalance between attacks and defenses is a funny thing -- a 7-1 score in a World Cup Quarterfinal could only happen among women, for exapmle -- and I think that's largely due to the disparities of national programs, and might work itself out if and when more professional leagues develop.

Thing is, women and competition is an odd mix. I'm happy for all the girls who now, thanks to Title 9, are in competitive sports, and I do believe that sort of cuts down on the princess quotient out there, the manner in which (as we're all familiar) the American woman is almost never a team-player and has very little experience at keeping herself fit. Turning those around, are good developments for planetary ecology in general.

But I just can't quite work out how to motivate young girls to have grit and determination and perseverance. For the girls I have coached, soccer is "fun" for them, like everyone at the family reunion getting together to play badminton while Dire Straits plays loud on the boom box. It's not life-or-death, like it is for the boys.

But it's a good thing. I hate the WNBA -- that particular sport just gets worse, all its weakest points exacerbated by changing the gender. There are sorts of basketball games I love to watch, but the women simply can't provide those. But I loved the WUSA -- that particular sport doesn't change as much, and even might benefit in certain contexts, IMO, by changing the gender.

By the way, women's professional soccer is practically the only sport out there in which the girls play by exactly the same rules as the boys. Same field, same ball, same goal, same time, same fouls, same everything. The only comparable one I can find is a tennis set (and not a whole match).

Yeah, the Brasilian women's team is FUGLY. They look like butch-dykes to me, maybe it's something cultural about who's "supposed" to succeed at sport in their country. By and large, the other successful teams are all from nations that have longstanding traditions of socialized athletic programs for all -- northern Europe, China -- and those nations as well seem to have less trouble than Brazil in reconciling femininity in appearance with success in athletics. Interesting.

The Swedes are certainly the hottest looking for two WC's running, although I loved number 6 on the Russian team, and of course everyone has to agree that some of the USA's players are quite attractive. Then again, some look like men: top half is a horse-racing jockey's, bottom half is a sumo wrestler's, no tits, square jaw, big nose, stringy hair. Yuck.

As an antidote, here's the "Brazilian national team for mongers" link again. I keep it on my bookmarks:

http://www.mealymouthedmotherfucker.com/teambrazil.html

Enjoy.

"The demise of the WUSA was not due to the lack of interest by fans, but by the piss poor management. Several executives of the league had not witnessed a single live football game before assuming their positions. "

That's damn scandalous. And shades of NASL all over again.

Oh, and by the way, why don't they exchange jerseys after the game?


(Message edited by book_guy on October 02, 2003)

(Message edited by book_guy on October 02, 2003)

(Message edited by book_guy on October 02, 2003)

Pity about the USA women's loss this evening, but what an exciting match to watch! Loved it! By the end, I was thinking the Germans were the better team, and when they then got the two late goals (really, the score is misrepresentative -- it's "fair" to call it a 1-nil game) and then survived a few scares in their box, I just respected them all the more.

I've always said about Germany, that they prod and poke until they find their opponents' weak points, and then BEAT BEAT BEAT that damn horse until it is DEAD. If they're ON their game, then you can almost smell the opponents' desperation and fear. That's what happened to the USA today.

The main story is twofold. The German keeper came up big. She was awesome. And the German midfield consistently pressured the USA's distributing players -- primarily Boxx and Lilly -- to the extent that they weren't free to distribute, but instead had to hustle and tackle merely to stay IN the match. Boxx was excellent in the first four matches as a midfield general, but she turned out to be too young to handle the change of dynamics and modify her game to one of holding and backing off, as would be the right response to that type of pressure.

So, the Germans won the midfield, and the game. They deserved it. Sorry I won't see Hamm, Lilly, Sobrero, Chastain, Foudy, MacMillan, Milbrett, Fawcett, Scurry together again. It was a dynasty. They're already missed by this fan.

But props, big props, to dah Tchermanss, for using the right tactics for the opponent. I'm afraid the Final game looks to be a sleeper, Germany by eleven clear goals over whomever gets there from the other Semi.

Maybe in two years the German men and women will have a Doppelfußballweltmeisterschaft.

(Message edited by book_guy on October 05, 2003)

bookgy:

I love watcing any goo footie, and you're right the USA-Germany game was great. Too bad about the result (becuase it definitely puts the nail on teh coffin of reviving professional wona'ms football here in the States), but the better team did win.

I enjoyed your commentary and thanks for the link back to that Brazil Playoy spread ;-)

BS

I liked it when Brandy Chastain ripped her top off a few years ago, setting a great example for all women, everywhere. That's about all I know about women's soccer.

Bullwinkle, you know more. You know how to make an obvious, tired, predictable, old joke about women's soccer, too.

The problem with womens soccer is twofold: one, soccer really blows as a spectator sport, unless your kids are playing, and two, womens' sports are generally boring, except for tennis (figure skating is boring but isn't really a sport these days). It's the double killer.

HAhaha what an amazing exercise in logical fallacies that is. The reason women's soccer doesn't work, is cuz it's women and soccer? That proves ... umm ... a circular argument, duh.

Not that I agree or disagree. But five billion people disagree about the first assertion ... let's not go there ...

Yeah but, from an idiot american point of view, he has a point. MLS barely scrapes by (don't get me started), so how can WUSA have hoped to make it? And women's tennis is the only women's sport with any major coverage - and that's just because of all the teenies and 20 year olds hopping around in short dresses. For that matter, women's football is a marginal sport even in football-loving countries (Brazil, Spain, Italy all have professional women's leagues). Too bad WUSA didn't make it, but they were doomed from the start...

BS

Yeah, I have to agree that, as a business venutre, it was a doomed investment from the start. I was just objecting to the categorical notion that soccer is inherently boring.

Oh, and PS, I think women's tennis gets successful coverage and fan-base not only because of your points, but also because of the fact that it's only ever covered on TV DURING major matches that (obviously) include men as well. There aren't any women's-only Grand Slam events ...

The WUSA folded because of terrible mis-management and absolutley horrible marketing. Some teams played in areas miles away and were demographical opposite from their fan base. Television was non-existent, and when it was televised on Saturday afternoons, It was directly opposite ESPN's MLS matches. WUSA virtually had no communication or tie-ins with the MLS. In short, the organizers of the WUSA were really clueless. It was doomed from the start.
The MLS has made sure they got some deep pocket investors as they knew they had an uphill battle. The business plan for the MLS estimated that it would take some 10 years to show some profit. Even though the league will still show a loss this year, two teams, the Columbus Crew and the LA Galaxy will actually show a small profit. They are the only two teams with their own Stadiums.

The WUSA , was probably the most important factor in the Team USA loss in this years WWC. The equity in a lot of teams was due to the fact that a lot of them played on WUSA teams. Every single country with the exception of Argentina, had at least one of their current players play at one time in the league.

Several of the teams directly attributed their success to their players participation in the WUSA.

In a back handed way this is good for American womens soccer. If we had not improved their (Germany and the rest of the world) talent so much, we might have been playing tommorrow.

THere has been a lot of speculation about the WUSA being resurrected, I hope not. There is some interests from investors of the MLS in organizing a league, The, however, do not wan't to have anything to do with the WUSA, who although have suspended operations, still hold contracts to players. A New league will be formed when WUSA is dead and buried.

OG

I didn't know about WUSA being on TV at all! Haha, that shows how pathetic their marketing was, and I'm a big soccer-on-TV fan.

Same story as NASL, the demand was out there but the businessmen couldn't figure out how to tap it. I used to go to Tampa stadium and see a full house watch the Rowdies play, and then the next month there was nobody to play against. I always wondered how a league could evaporate in the face of 40,000 desperate fans.

Now, the Mutiny (contracted out of the MLS) was a different story -- they fuggin' sucked, the new stadium was only football-friendly, the seats were too expensive, everything was aggressively un-soccer. I wonder what it must have been like to sit through a WUSA game -- anti-soccer like the Mutiny, or pro-soccer like the Rowdies.

So you're saying the MLS is considering forming a female league? But that they would have to alleviate the contracts the WUSA still holds? Tell me more about THAT bullshit ...

Considering a league, YES, formulating a real business plan, sometime in the future.

They do, however, want nothing to do with the old WUSA. Therefore, unless, they want to face extra legal hurdles, they cannot talk to any players,coaches.administrators, etc until the league is truely dead and buried and contracts voided.

For a team like the LA Galaxy who have a brand new soccer specific stadium, having a womens' team is a natural. The location is in the heart of the AYSO (founded next door in Torrance,Ca) with huge marketing opportunities. I expect this is the thinking of the MLS, to naturally evolve into forming a womens league in the future, but with people who know what they are doing and know soccer.

The LA Galaxy is averaging around 20,000 fans per home game, and they are having one of their worst years ever on the field, but off the field they will turn a small profit. This is due solely to the ownership of the stadium. Remember they not only get money from the Galaxy games, but other events hosted there. Having a womens team to fill in the otherwise empty dates can only add to the coffers.

I remember going to a Rams game at Anaheim stadium. It sucked, as the stadium was designed for Baseball not Football. Going to a stadium that was designed for the sport is a world of difference. For the MLS to teams like the WUSA Washington DC team to play in huge NFL stadiums are, IMHO, the reason people do not come back.

I hate to say it, but if you build it, they will come.

OG

The DC soccer teams all play at RFK stadium, where the Redskins moved out six seasons ago. It was the first of the 1960's, multipurpose donuts like Busch in St. Louis, the Vet in Philly, the old stadiums in Cincy and Pittsburg, etc. Really a baseball stadium with movable bleacher-style seats for soccer and football.

They only play at Fedex Field (Redskins home) when a major international match is on. Fedex is huge (85,000 seats) and I doubt if MLS could fill it up, or international games. RFK has around 53,000 and they've come close on some of the international matches. Fedex is football and soccer only, by the way.

continuing to meander off subject, I've been to a game at RFK - Brazil x Ecuador. I t acutally wasn't bad as a footie venue, the seats were right up onto the sidelines, somewhat like La Bomboneire in B.A. (f-ing Boca, world's only team named "B.J."). On the other hand, the field itself was quite small and there is a 20-foot wall at both "endzones" before the seats start, limiting player-fan interaction. Still, it shows that sometimes a "helmet football" stadium can be good for REAL football. The footie games at the new Linc stadium in Philadelphia weren't bad either (and Barca-Man U. was sold out).

BS

While Linc Stadium was designed for American Football, it gave design considerationd to soccer. The sight lines, layout, and overall feel of the stadium for soccer games is good.

I had the pleasure of attending a football match at the new Home Depot Center. It has a real feel of and English style soccer stadium. If you've ever been to some of the more intimate football stadiums in Europe, you'll get that same feeling at Carson. Don't confuse it with the tremendous football cathedrals at Bernabau, Azteca, or even Old Trafford. The HDC is small (under 35,000) but the ingenious fiberglass roofs over the stand reflect the noise and sound and makes it sound much larger. When more of these stadiums are built around the country, soccer might be established as a 5th professional sport in the US.

OG

I honestly don't mind soccer being fifth wheel, last sibling. I just mind it not being ANY wheel at all, like lacrosse or professional duct-taping.