OK mongers, hombres, and hobbyists, here's your chance to wax poetic about the advantages and disadvantages of your own particular class of vehicle.

I'm thinking of buying a new car, maybe take advantage of some of the deals available this holiday season. I am probably going to get something that is slightly used -- 98 model year or newer, I'm guessing -- and I tend to prefer the following characteristics:

* a bit zippy engine (not high-performance, but better than average)

* a bit tight in the corners (not high-performance, but more than a danged Taurus)

* a "hard" ride

* not necessarily many amenities in the interior -- I hate power windows, and probably would only listen to NPR or maybe a CD once in a while, and don't need power seats or multiple temperature controls or any other stuff like that

* fuel economy is desired, but only in the mpg 20 to 25 range -- nothing spectacular is necessary.

*some mild carrying capacity -- along the lines of a hatchback or teeny-small SUV. I hate the concept of a "station wagon" (reminds me of mom and the kids) so, umm, try to help me keep my gonads, OK? I coach kids sports teams sometimes, so being able to bring a bag o' balls and bats is necessary.

*I am good about maintenance, but I hate the idea of Detroit's "planned obsolescence," and so I tend to be leery of GM, Chrysler, Ford, although I'm impressed that my 89 Ford Bronco II has made it this far!

I want to stay under say $18K for a new car, but I don't have that much money to spend, so under $10K for a used is even better. Depending, of course, on whether I get the value of what I'm paying for.

Here's what I've been comparing:
Honda Civic Si (the "zippy" hatchback)
Ford Focus ZX3 and ZX5 (their answer to the Civic Si)
VW Golf and VW GTI
Toyota Matrix (not exactly in the same category as the above vehicles, but I liked it anyway)
Chrysler PT Cruiser (that cute lumpy thing)

and of course

Accord Corrolla Celica Camry Aerio etc.etc.

Thoughts?

(Message edited by book_guy on December 13, 2003)

Don't forget to check out the new Mazda 5 door hatch-back. It may be what your looking for and in your price range?

I don't own one, but I am also looking for a hatch-back to buy. sf4dfish

Those are some interesting choices, but you seem kind of all over the place as to what you want ...

GTI: Probably the "zippiest" of the bunch. It's OK stock, but with a chip and some light mods, you can easily add an extra 50 horses kick some ass. However, they are known for having mechanical problems. I think the current version has a coil pack problem or some shit.

Ford Focus ... don't even consider this car. It's a Ford for one, and you will get raped quality wise. If you get the Focus SVT, then that's at least a great handling car, but still. ZX3, ZX5 = crap all day long. If this is the car you want, just get the Civic Si instead.

Matrix ... I dunno, they look okay and have the engine from the Celica GTS, but from my experience they are not too quick. I can't imagine they handle all that well either, cuz they look bulky.

Celica GTS ... nice, if you can fit in it. I can't. If you get the Celica, make sure you get the GTS and the stick, otherwise you're getting nothing. The auto GTS is a dog, as are the GT's. Quick stock, great reliability, but kind of a girl's car. Excellent handling though.

Civic Si ... Man I think these things are ugly, but you will get great reliability and handling. I test drove one for fun, and it's sort of quick. The stick shift is in a really weird place though ... it kind of sticks out from low on the dash. This one probably meets your needs though. I think they run 17-18K new.

PT Cruiser? You must be an old man. Seriously, every chick I know thinks this thing is ugly. It looks like a mini hearse. Never test drove or rode in one, but I know a chick who had one as a week long rental and she said it had no balls. At least get the Turbo one. That has to at least be somewhat quick.

Corrola, Camry, Aero ... these are not even quick or good handling by even the broadest definition. Bleuh.

Accord ... probably out of the price range you're looking at. The V6 6 speed is badass, but the rest are more of a soft comfortable type ride.

Acura RSX and RSX Type-S ... maybe out of your listed price range new, but you could probably find a good deal on a used RSX. They corner nice and are quick. The base RSX shares the engine in the Civic Si. If you really want fun, the RSX Type-S adds 40 HP and better suspension, but is probably more than you need. It is faster and corners better than anything else on your list, and is easily the most fun. Good cargo room too.

If not those, used Acura Integra's (1996 - 2001 models) are probably well within your price range. You'll get excellent cargo room, good handling and they are pretty quick. Lot's of versions, but the GSR is the best of the bunch (unless you can find a Type-R, but you don't want that).

I would recommend the Honda's/Acura's/Toyota's any day of the week, cuz they won't break, but if you look at used Civic Si's, RSX Type-S' (maybe even the base RSX), Celica's, and Integras, make sure they weren't abused, cuz they are popular street racers.

-Superman-

One thing I didn't mention is I insist on stick. Automatic is for girls.

Superman, you sound like you know what you're talking about. How come you said I'm "all over the map"? Aside from the Matrix (which I admitted didn't fit the category of the other vehicles) and the last line of my post (the "etc. etc." line) I figgered I was pretty much comparing similar vehicles. Zippy hatchbacks.

You're not the first who's said the Focus is crap -- even the ZX versions of it. I'm getting very turned off of that car by all the bad publicity.

As for the PT Cruiser, I just threw that in for a lark. There are some deals on new 2003s still on the lot (Tampa is a good market for buyers I think), and it's a lot of car for the money. I like the ride and the interior -- hard and bumpy -- but I agree that the PT Cruiser is simply ... warped. You're paying a lot just to be able to say you're participating in the cosmetic retro look. It's my impression it's designed for wealthy stock brokers to give to their wives as a consolation prize or apology gift for when he comes back from an impromptu trip to Rio. "To help you run that antique business you always wanted to start, honey." Blah blah.

How does one go about the act of "make sure they weren't abused" for the used Civic Si's, etc.? I know I can do a title check on the Vehicle Identification Number somehow on the internet (lessee ... got the link here somewheres ...) for $24. That will tell me if it's been in an accident or flood, basically; and there's the odometer reading; but otherwise, it's anyone's guess as to whether it was driven by a lunatic drug dealer or a grandmother, isn't it?

Used Acura Integras ... I'll keep those in mind. Acura RSX too. I haven't been to an Acura dealer.

I'm really at sea here, I appreciate all the help I can get. I started out thinking I was going to replace my Ford Bronco II (not a full Bronco! the Bronco II is smaller than a Bronco "I") with whatever small SUV was out there in a comparable range. I have been consistently impressed with the Ford truck engine in it -- 2.9 liter V6 with electronic fuel injection, must have been about 180 horsepower? before I wore it out -- and only ever had to fix the clutch twice. Otherwise, nothing went wrong. Ever. Period. Interior electrics faltered when it was about 12 years old, and the passenger window leaks, but the ENGINE is an ENGINE man!

Nowadays, you can get 150 hp from some damn 3-cylinder hybrid, so I don't know how to compare. For example, the mid-range torque on the VW Golf is ridiculously high even though it lists at only 105 hp or so. And ferchrissakes, the GTI has 180 hp in a peeny-weeny 1.8 liter engine. What gives? Have the engines been freeze-dried to shrink them? Are they warped into a fourth dimension to save three-dimensional liters of volume?

I drive like Dennis Leary -- "that really pisses me off" would be my most common traffic commentary. I like to whip out of the stoplight and get in front of everybody. Constant lane-changing. But then, I basically go 3 or 7 mph over the speed limit like everyone else, and I certainly don't have any aspirations to street-rodding or even breaking the speed limit on the highway.

And I like my Bronco II's size. It's about the same size inside as a Matrix, although the Matrix is lower to the ground. A Honda CRV is MUCH bigger than a Bronco II, but because it's less boxy, the CRV looks smaller. Ford doesn't make anything smaller than the Escape now, so no "small" Ford SUVs any more -- my dad's theory being, that if they did, they'd have to admit the Bronco II was a mistake because of the rollover risk. I did do that to my Bronco II, rolled it over. Fun fun.

This new car will be used for some highway commuting, now that I think of it. Mostly in the 70 mph zones, rural American south. Don't speed there! You ever seen "Deliverance," that "squeal like a pig" scene? Heh, I hear that's what they do to speeders ...

I'm not into interior amenities. I need a decent cup holder and a radio that picks up NPR. I have no family and don't intend to strap a child seat into this, or any other car I own, ever. (You heard it here, you can quote me on it.) I like trucks with "clunky" interiors because I feel like I can work on them. A few bolts stick out here, a few nuts to screw back in there ... very homey. Remember the VW "thing" -- all the parts on the engine had a die-cast label on them, in three languages. ("Carburetor / Karburätor / Quelque chose qui faire avec beaucoup de le pleine aire et un peu de petroleum gaselline une mixture de grande vitesse qui s'appelle le charburretteuresemente." LOL @ damn Frenchies with their extra words.) That seems like my speed.

So I want a car that reminds me of nuts and bolts and of my balls. I'm in my late 30s. Maybe this is a midlife-crisis mobile? I don't really LIKE sedans -- even small sedans and coupes with great engines seem ... like grandpa. Furthermore, the less "functional" this car is, in terms of carrying hardware and carpentry equipment, the less handyman jobs I'll have to "volunteer" to perform for my parents and friends. It's getting old, having the only truck in the family. People keep asking me to help them move.

Finally, one last comment. The back seat needs to be big enough to make out with my high school girlfriend. Just kidding.

So, waddayathink, Supes? Gimme yer reco's!


(Message edited by book_guy on December 13, 2003)

I like to haul a lot of stuff around, and so I would pick the PT Crusier. The only downside I see to them is I want a bit more power.

All over the place because you have sporty hatchbacks with Toyota Matrix's and PT Cruisers, then you have sedans like the Accord, Corolla and Camry.

It can be hard to tell if it's been street raced ... the first two things I would look at are the tires and stock airbox. A lot of people revert their cars to stock before selling them. If the tires look brand new and are not high performance and the stock airbox is nice and clean, I'd wonder about it. Still, Honda, Acura, and Toyota all do pretty thorough inspections of their vehicles before reselling them. Carfax is a must to check things out too. I think if you buy a 2001 Celica GTS from a 30 year old chick, she probably never raced it.

Either way, the best thing to do is make a list of everything you want, then go test drive them all.

-Superman-

Make a list of everything you want:

Lessee, big breasts, small breasts, medium breasts. Check. Skinny ass, medium ass, fat ass. Check. Blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes. Check. White skin, Black skin, mulatta skin, Asian skin, Pakistani skin. Check.

On my way to go test drive them all ...



Seriously, thanks for the suggestions. As I said, the line about the sedans, and the comments about the Matrix and the PT Cruiser were already statements that I knew weren't "in the category" of the other cars. So, I'm not all over the map at all, at least not in MY warped little special universe ...

Seems like tomorrow (today by ET) will be the negotiation one. Gettin' chummy wid' used car salesmen, my favorite. Anyway, all the original criteria have evaporated as I have winnowed my way through a zillion cars and a jillion options. I'll let you know what I come away with ... as though y'all care ...

To finish up this thread, not that anyone cares, but I might as well make my final report:

Just before Christmas I bought a 96 Honda Accord with 58K miles on it. It's a stickshift in the LE edition with several of the EX options, including CD player and power windows / locks. No moon roof. One original owner, I talked to him. No major mechanical problems, very good to excellent condition, a few minor dings is all. I paid $6500 plus tax tag and title.

My thinking went somewhat like this. I realized I wasn't going to be able to get the car I "wanted" (or, at least, the engine I wanted) for the price range I was interested in. But in the process of finding out about my local market, I started to realize that the best "fair price per car" (by my analysis, at least) opportunities were in medium-aged or older Accords, Civics, Camrys, and some Nissan sedans. I then re-tailored my original criteria to that group in specific, found a few, jumped when a good one came up.

My biggest disappointment is that it isn't a VTEC engine. So far I haven't needed one, although it would have been fun to try to outrun that new Subaru WRX in the other lane yesterday ... And the power windows are weak, probably on their way out. I smell a trip to a parts yard for them little motors some time in my near future. Is that a difficult repair to do on your own?

Odd choice considering what you were looking for. Well at least it will run forever. Did you even look at Integra GSR's? You probably could have gotten a similar year and price and it would have met your "needs" in every way much more than an Accord. Then again, insurance would have raped you.

Anyway, you would not have outrun a WRX with any Accord VTEC. If it was the STi, he would have really smoked ya. 0-60 in 4.88 seconds stock ... mmmmm. Too bad they are 4-door and so damn ugly, or I might be driving one.

-Superman-