Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Archive 01	50		2002/06/03, 04:11 pm
	Archive 02	50		2002/06/10, 02:12 pm
	Archive 03	50		2002/06/17, 01:58 am
	Archive 04	50		2002/06/23, 08:10 pm

I am surprised that there seems no provision of moving the final to Seoul if Korea beats Germany. I know this sounds absolutely crazy in terms of logistics. But, if there are two countries that are capable of making this swap, they would be Japan and Korea, not only because of their extreme efficiencies but also their power structures are such that their governments can make this sort of decision.

Okay, I know absolutely nothing about soccer but I'll give my predictions anyway based on the "flavor" of the matches to this point.

Korea gets the Seoul goal of the match and beats Germany 1-0.

Brazil has Turkey for lunch. 3-0.

Brazil wins the World Cup with a goal in the 88th minute off of the foot of _________ (which is described in heaven by Ed Sullivan as "a Rio Rio big shoe").

The final game is one of the most exciting soccer matches the world has ever seen. World attention towards soccer is thus dramatically increased, so much so that the Al Quaeda fields a team in 2006, but are disqualified in their first match for failing to be able to get past the security guards.

A Death to all the Al Quaeda guy,

Out-of-Towner

I have to admit, being a big euro guy that OG was right...Go Concacaf...Go USA...
I just hope US can field as competitive a team in 2006 which is very possible.
Germany wins wc in 2006
2010, hope UEFA learns by then to give a full month preparation for biggest event.

Ootie agrees with me, i am so smart no bet for me.

Captain Claudio Reyna and forward Landon Donovan were named to the World cup all-star team

http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=218927&lang=us

They were selected among the finalists, all star team will be announced later in the week.

OH was I glad to see the maggot Koreans go out on there worthless asses. I guess corrupt oficiating can only get you so far.

Athos or anyone, what do you guys say we meet up at AB on Sat. night (actually Sun morning @ 245AM) to see Ronaldo and Rivaldo pull their tricks??? C'on, it's only once every 4 years...I'll bring some of my 400 chicas nekked pix from BA to keep us awake if we get too hammered.

Prediction: Brazil 2 - Germany 1

A Hope that makes Sada happy kind of guy,

Out-of-Towner

I need Brazil to win world cup to win my future bet. But I am rooting for extra time to win straight bet at +260.
European teams are just realizing the problem of starting 10 days earlier. Germany in a way was lucky with late season injuries. Brazil had injuries the whole year.
This is reminding me of USA 94, I can see winner on pks after 0-0, if no team score in first half, I am looking at extra time.
Germany has such an average team but they have history on their side, biggest upset 1954 3-2 over Hungary and 1974 2-1 big upset over Holland.
Go Auriverdes

SB
I need sound man... Sorry I am watching at home.
Kickoff 4:00 AM Pacific Time.

Athos

Claudio Reyna made the World cup All Star team, 16 players picked from 8 1/4 finalists.
First time ever for an American.
Tonny Sanneh is being pursued by Arsenal and Glasgow Rangers.

So what is up with Claudio saying he might not play with US side in future? Is he afraid of the young kids beating him out?

No Reyna is 31. Has to concentrate making more money in England before retiring. He is taking 2 years off from national team.
Better hope someone younger can replace him to make team better.

Brazil 2 Germany 0

The mighty Kahn finally fluffs one!!!. Pretty entertaining game, but the offensive power of Brazil finally won out.

What really impressed me was the all-out abandon that Brazil pursued their headers. They were fearless. If you look on the set peices especially you'll notice that rivaldo, cafu, etc were consistantly winning headers, charging into crowds like there was no tommorrow (there wasn't!!!). I think this caught the Germans a little off guard. Brazil was sending a message that if you wanted to pursue an aerial attack, you'll pay the price.

Germany sorely missed Ballack and I think that when that was apparent, Voeller waited too long for an offensive replacement. The black German (what was his name??) was a liability on defense, but what was a foward doing defending Rivaldo??. Germany lost the cup when it missed its defensive assignments, not when Kahn fumbled the ball.

I really think this World Cup proved my earlier contention that while the cream of the crop is still Brazil, below it is wide open!!!. Germany was lucky to get to the finals, but good teams manufacture their own luck, and Germany still deserved to be there.

Concacaf must still be smiling, The onlyConcacaf team that didn't get to the second-round, Costa Rica, was the only team to score three goals against Brasil, They unfortunatly gave up 5 and then missed the 2nd round by goal differential, allowing eventual 3rd place Turkey (whom they tied) to advance out of the thirs round. Talk about a tough group!!.

The so-called "Group of Death" really was the "Group of minor discomfort" as Argentina and Nigeria went wimpering out, soon followed by Sweden and England.

Mexico relegated a vulnerable Italy to second in their group, and then the Korean executed the coup de grace. Italy could be accused of overconfidence, they expected, like the portugese to advance easily out of their groups of Concacaf and Asian opponenents. as Gomer Pyle once said: Surprise!Surprise!Surprise!, ....The rest of the world has got a LOT better!!.

A lot of people were saying : What was Korea thinking, by beating Portugal, they would play Italy instead of Mexico, a far more fearsome opponenent. Maybe they looked at the draw and figured Spain would be a less fearsome opponenet than Germany in the quarters. Who knows!!, but it might have changed soccer history (and it future) as we know it!!!.
Alllowing the US to advance, beat Mexico and reach the lofty quarters will have bigger repercussions for the future of soccer in the US. Who would of thought it came of the foot of a South Korean player!!.

Although WorldCup All-Star Claudio Reyna ( I never thought I would say that!!!)has intimated he would like travel less and concentrate more on football in the Premeirship, I can still see him playing in US friendlies, albeit only in Europe, and I think that ,with all the attention and potential US endorsements coming from the stellar US acheivements, We will see a lot more of Claudio Reyna.

So Europe keeps its record intact of not ever winning a WC off the European continent.
Good thing the next Cup will be in Germany. The poor showing by many of the Euro powers support my contention that many of these teams are simply, as Sams army pointed out to the Portugese as they left the field: Over-rated!!
The rest of the world has shown that they can play as good as football as anyone. They are just starting to find out that the Euro teams, have onlt play a few "minnows" score a lot of goals against the Estonia's, Latvia's and Luxembourg's or Maltas, and then be hailed by the Euro press as the "next big thing". They had their head handed to them on a platter and I feel that with 14-16 spots alloted to the Euro's teams in the WC is more than the rest of the world can tolerate, given the happenings in this WC.


OG

This was a good wc final with Brazil head and shoulders above rest of competition but Germany played their game and had a few good chances. Game was closer than score indicated.
Next wc in Europe, I expect Euro to come back strong. 1 good wc showing does not make you a power but I do have hopes for USA.
Germany favorites with England, Holland, Italy. Brazil only non Euro to have a crack at winning 2006.
Scolari and Arena two best coaches of wc 2002.
2010 who knows maybe USA reaches semi in Africa.
Concacaf is indeed much stronger now because of USA which will help Mexcio in the long run.
Now I can enjoy summer and waiting for NFL training camps.
Next soccer stop, Porutgal 2004...

Funny game...Kahn makes a blunder on winning goal and Marcos makes fantastic save on Neuville free kick deflecting off the post. For 1/2 a sec, my heart sank. Marcos played better and better with every game gaining much confidence especially in the air.

I don't call it a Kahn blunder for goal #1, I call it a wet Fevernova ball off Rivaldo's left foot -- and nothing else needs to be said, any soccer fan knows what a wet Fevernova ball off Rivaldo's left foot means. Spiderman would have spilled it. I call goal #2 a thing of beauty. I call the Semifinal results justified, the USA victory over Mexico sweet sweet sweet, and the Korean team my cinderella darlings -- never mind that they elminated Portugal, Italy, and Spain, my three most preferred European "beatiful game" picks after Holland failed to qualify.

I'm glad USA had a good showing. I'm glad the "right" team won the Final game -- we saw all the unpredictables and disappointings in the previous 63 or so games. LOL.

There were no tactical creative midfielders at this tournament. Zidane was injured and went home early. Totti never arrived. Spain played their tactics across the field, not up and down it. Veron got petulant, and Argentina self-destructed anyway. Ronaldinho played more of a hit-and-run type striker-in-the-centrocampista, than an actual playmaker. Even the Germans had no midfield general. Hunh?

I'm excited about Turkey and Turkish players, for their future in Europe. I'm happy about the Korean fans, they won my heart, but I suspect their players won't go as far as the Turks will --Korea is strictly a home-town phenomenon. But thanks to their victory over Spain, and Senegal's concurrent loss to Turkey, I can accurately say that the tournament's lone Dutchman did better than all the French combined. ORANJE!

I'm not surprised, looking back in hindsight, at Senegal -- they mostly all played in Paris, but mostly not first-team (or even first division!) and hence not tired out by the long Euro seasons.

I'm disappointed in the refs, and in particular in the CHOICES of who would ref. Examples: the team that eliminated Portugal got the Portugese ref; the teams that played to see who would go on to see Spain got the Spanish ref (and lots of cards to hinder their performance against Spain, what a surprise); the Final between S.Am. and Europe got 4 European refs; etc. But FIFA knows it's blundered on the refs (didja see that Italian TV is suing over LOST REVENUE due to refereeing!?).

What I learned at this World Cup. Speed Kills. Muscles Kill. Tactics DON'T necessarily win tournaments. Never bet against the Germans.

Or, to put it less succinctly, in my predictions and prognostications a month ago, I over-privileged tactical knowledge and "soccer sense," and under-privileged raw athletic talent. I'm disappointed that the overview of KJ02 will include the notion that muscularity and joie de vivre, alone, were sufficient to win games, and even tournaments; I am a tactics kind of guy. But maybe we'll see the pendulum shift back the other way soon enough. Certainly, the anti-tactics of Italian and German tradition have reduced the last few rounds of games, and definitely the final games, in the Cups of recent memory, to stultifyingly dull defensive affairs. We need the Dutch or the Spanish to lift our spirits in a teamwork sort of way; but they conspired to let Korea send them home ... odd?

Sanneh and Donovan impressed me. They never really developed soccer sense, but their lack of it, in the aforementioned athletically superpowered environment, turned out to be an asset rather than a liability. Joe Max Moore played too little for my taste; Lewis too much; Regis alone didn't get playing time (except for the backup keepers, and the ill Cherundolo). Reyna is ... as always ... pretty much God, that didn't surprise me. Pope is as well, and that didn't either. Agoos is unfortunately a has-been; cf. again, athleticism versus tactical knowledge, he was a fish out of water. If we'd had Armas we might have beaten Germany.

But then, if England had tried versus Nigeria, they might not have met Brazil until the Semi-Finals. If France had had Zidane fully fit, they might have breezed through their group. If Bielsa hadn't been an autistic savant instead of a coach, the Argentines might have breezed through their group, too. If Stephen Gerard had been fit ... if Mbo Mpenza ... if Mehmet Scholl and Deisler and Novotny (but didn't Ramelow step up his game nicely?) ... if Raul hadn't been suspended ... if Ballack hadn't been ... if Seaman (nyah nyah) had stayed on his line ... if the English tour company hadn't performed truly as though they were, by all accounts, only English (smugly self-satisfied that their inferior performance was eminently superior, and therefore doing nothing but the bare minimum of effort) ... if ... if ...

I loved the hosts. The Koreans, as I said, won my heart ... and that despite the refereeing.

And I hated the way the whole damned Brazilian side seems to be a bunch of born-again Christians. I'll never root for that team again. But I note that Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos, and Rivaldo stayed markedly aloof from those epizootics. I'll continue to root for those individuals.

Ronaldo is vindicated. And still a phenomenon. This is NOT 100% FIT!!?? Lord help us come 2006, when he'll play on his fourth World Cup continent ...

book_guy
Kahn was disconsolate as he knew what happened. I just wished he could have done the same vs USA.
I did not realize Ronaldo ever left the bench in USA 94?
WC is a tournament, nothing to do with Euro leagues. Desire, talent and preparation will help you win with some luck of course.
Referee was excellent in the final, nothing to do with being European. Best team won.
This was one of the best Brazilian side ever with 58 and 70. Good goalie, great defense (given up 1 goal in last four games), good midfield and super star forwards.

Kahn was disconsolate, yes; but I'm not disconsolate for him, as I said Spiderman would have spilled it, Spidey-sense and tacky webbing combined. He'll always be harder on himself than anyone else.

Ronaldo never left the bench in USA 94. But he was there.

Euro leagues were a big factor, in my estimation. They tired out the "hot" players, but not the "minor" players. Same phenomenon as Mexico 86, in which the Germans looked anorexic by the final game -- Bundesliga had finished ONE WEEK before the tournament's first round. FIFA is moving to address this scheduling glut ... or, at least, pretend to address it, as they pretend to address all things.

Final ref was awesome. Best in the game. Still, it's gotta be a BIT questionable to pit four Europeans in a Europe-versus-South-America match, ain't it?

Best team won, definitely. It's all about trajectory. Brasil looked for shit for early qualifying, getting it together for middle to late qualifying, becoming brilliant for early tournament, unstoppable for late tournament. Reminds me of France in 98.

Not one of the best Brasil sides ever, though, in my opinion. 70 was of course awesome, 58 was pretty good. But 82 deserves mention before 02. Great goalie, I agree -- Taffarel has been trumped, and we can no longer say Brasil has never had great shot-stoppers. Good midfield, but not great, I agree. Super star forwards, I agree. Great defense? Are you NUTS! Luzio ... Owen ... nuf said. Roberto Carlos and Cafu are wingers, essentially midfielders pressed into retreat service.

But they sure did look happy. I love sharing their joy. Them and the Koreans, they can come to my barbecue any time. (As long as they promise not to pray goddamned born-again shit. How can you sign up for a religion that believes in "family values" and "promise keepers" in a city with Termas the likes of Rio? I just don't get it ...)

[Do you like the way I brought this back on-topic for this website. ]

40 day sex ban is finally over for Auriverdes players ... Now I know where they got all this extra energy.

Athos,

You think Ronaldo, Rivaldo, and others will have a problem getting laid back home?

Can you even imagine the quantity and quality of pussy anyone remotely associated with the team will be getting right now.

Hombrecito1

Hombrecito1
They deserve all the free pussy they can get. Actually they get it all the time so no big deal for them.

Hey Athos, free pussy was what got to Romario according to a garota. She sez the reason the team left him off this world cup wasn't just because he's aged, but he's a constant fixture at Cafe Foto in SP with beautiful women, booze, and powder.

Where does Romario play anyway? He must be fun to hang out with but terrible to coach. With Romario it's me, me, me.

He plays for Vasco de Gama, a defending champ of the Brazilian First Division League.

Damn I gotta see the lineup at Cafe Foto at least once in my life.

USA climbs to no 11 in FIFA ranking, tying best ever.
Donovan is due to report to Bayer Leverkusen on Nov 1st. I believe he can start for these guys, since Michael Ballack is moving to Bayern Munich. Donovan has more potential than Turkish player no 10.

Korea climbs up 18 POSITIONS in FIFA ranking!! Good for them. But the top ten or so are still (inexplicably, annoyingly) teams that didn't impress me (Mexico ...). I guess the points system doesn't fall out after just one or two matches. USA picked the wrong team to lose to, as far as ranking goes, since they were the worst of the lot before the Cup. But it's just a numbers game anyway.

Did anyone else catch this snide tidbit on the FIFA website: "In the lower half of the table, the world watched as Bhutan (199th, up 3) notched up a victory against Montserrat to claim a place in the top 200." LOL. There are only 203 nations ranked in TOTAL. Someone was being witty ...

In the Montserrat - Bhutan game both teams split the Cup Trophy right down the middle after the game, the field looked like a it was in the middle of a jungle somewhere....

Yeah they actually played a FIFA sanctioned and SPONSORED game (FIFA picked up the whole tab) to decide who would be the last place team. And yeah it was a CONCACAF team that lost. It was kind of ridiculous, but FIFA wanted to show brotherhood, solidarity..yada,yada,yada...

The really weird part of the FIFA rankings is that they "went out the door" when seeding the WC. How do you think Germany got its seed?? During the group and team "lottery", FIFA announced that the seedings are determined (except for the hosts) by previous WC placings. I want to know 'then what good are the rankings??"" Furthermore FIFA has a policy of not having teams from the same confederations face each other in the same round. Except of course of UEFA teams who comprise half the Cup slots. This of course gives UEFA a pretty good statistical advantage in advancing to the second round. This was turned on its head this year (thank god) when few of the Euro seeds lived up to their expectations. There is no doubt in my mind that Germany would have not reached the finals had not S. Korea and to a lesser extent US got rid of all the seeds in Germany's bracket.

The Montserrat-Bhutan game was nothing more than the UEFA faction in FIFA trying to highlight and draw attention to the WORST teams which incidently were not (as a UEFA press release enthusiatically pointed out) part of the European continent!!!

OG

I never even heard of Montserrat. I thought she worked at AB.

Organgrinder:

Yup, you guessed it, FIFA's seedings are warped. In both 98 and 02, although in qualifying England placed ahead IN THEIR QUALIFYING GROUP of a team that got seeded, nevertheless they themselves did not get seeded. I suppose something like Italy's "historical" World Cup record (teams from the 1930s, ferChrissakes!) takes precedence over England's recent 5-1 thrashing of the Germans in Munich. I dunno, you 'splain it to me. I think it's all about "big name" envy -- same reason Kahn got tournament MVP (hello? he LOST the biggun!), Friedel didn't get named to the top 5 goalies (despite setting a record of being the first to save more than 1 penalty in gametime play at the WC) and Seaman did (despite personally signing the travel voucher for England's Tokyo Heathrow Return), and Rio Ferdinand didn't make the all-Cup team but his invisible teammate Sol Campbell did.

And about the groupings. The "reason" Europe fills up half the Cup, is cuz European teams tend, in FIFA's mind, relative to other qualifyers, to be better teams. I mean, we COULD let Africa and Asia get even more spots in the final 32, and then suffer through Tunisia and China all over again. Sure, a few Africans managed to actually play, and the hosts did admirably; but the rest? Who would you put in the place of a reduced European contingent? Not more Africa or Asia, I hope. Didn't you miss Holland, Romania, the Czechs, the Norwegians, the Scots? I certainly did.

Now, if you meant more from the New World, I'd be with you. I wouldn't object to another spot or two for CONCACAF and / or CONMEBOL -- regions that seem slightly under-represented, and are verifiably soccer-mad already. I missed seeing Honduras and Colombia, for example. But why would FIFA do that? FIFA's advertizers on soccer telecasts are guaranteed an audience in Guatemala and Venezuela no matter the number of Latin spots at the Cup; but they won't get such dependable TV time in Addis Ababa or Bangkok unless they WOO the Third World. "More Iranian with that stew, mister Muftahli?"

Then, once the teams are selected for the final 32, I TOTALLY agree that the various groups should be mixed up. Why keep the South Americans separate from one another? And any CONCACAF team --Mexico, for example -- is guaranteed to get no African team in its group, simply (as I figger it) because CONCACAF + Africa equals a neat 8 and so they're all bumbled together into one urn. They oughta seed top 8 (by performance and/or ranking), then NEXT 8 (by same criteria), then next, then next, and do those by mixing the continents. And then have each group have one of each, top next weaker and weakest. Now THAT would be a fair distribution -- you wouldn't end up with a Group O' Death with four legit contenders (this year's F); or a Group O' Idiots with four lightweights (this year's H).

Your point is fair about Germany's opponents. They advanced further than their "deserved" spot because their legit opponents got eliminated earlier by weaker "lucky streak" advancers. Similarly, England destroyed its own fate by failing to try during the Nigeria game, hence placing themselves in the Denmark-Brazil quarterfinal bracket, rather than the relatively easier (for England) route of Senegal-Turkey semifinal bracket.

Also, FIFA should definitely do more inter-continental qualifying games or even whole rounds. I envision a "pre Cup CUP" in which 64, or even 128 nations, travel larger distances for elimination rounds; eventually, they meet up with the higher seeds to total 32, or even down to 16, at a "Finals" tournament at the host nation. The intermediate rounds would be exciting, region by region, and would increase the World's opportunity for being spectators as well. Currently, qualifying is too localized.

I like the Ireland-Iran type of playoffs, partly because that leads to less "Confederation Envy" in any direction, but also because it requires that multi-talented teams advance. If you're a successful Latin squad, often you only know how to beat other Latin squads; whereas, the best World Cup performers eventually have to beat Latins, Africans, Asians, and Euro's. This year's litmus test for ALL teams involved, was having to come up against a well-organized, stalwart, tall, traditionally European defense. Only two teams didn't: England didn't fall to that arrangement mostly because, that is a description of THEM in the first place. Brazil, the eventual winners, didn't fall to it, but beat England in the midst of it. Otherwise, 30 teams faltered in the face of Euro-defense, and that was the make-or-break arrangement. Consequently, nobody should complain if they get some practice against a Euro-defense earlier on ... or against any other style that isn't their "typical" familiar opponent.

Anyway, international jetliners make it all possible nowadays. Think of the mongering opportunities! Brazil meets Holland in Amsterdam, World Cup Qualifying 2008 for WC South Africa 2010, the termas garotas all descend on the Walletjes district. Ooh ooh ...

Byron
I think they had a volcano erupt in Monserrat a few years back.
I remember doing a dancer Monserrat at CC but cannot remember which Monserrat I did at AB. Faceless chicas as time goes on.
Monserrat is not known for mongering.

I agree they should have hi and low seeds then mix the rest as USA deserves a chance to play an African team. Germany is so weak they will not win the next world cup played on their home turf.

I'll quote you on that: "Germany is so weak they will not win the next world cup played on their home turf." Never bet against the Germans.

Germany in Germany will be very formidable. And UEFA and FIFA will not have to stack the deck with a seed for Germany this time.

What is inherently unfair about WC qualifying is that UEFA had 32 or so teams that were eligible to qualify for the finals. These included the Luxembourgs, Malta's, Faroe Islands, Icelands, Grand Fenwick, etc.,etc.
Applying the same formula would give Concacaf around 5 or 6 spots. We too have got plenty of minnows to pad our slots!!

Heh, we got Montserrat!!!

Concacaf and Comebol gambled and staunchly supported Blatter, even getting plenty of mud slung our way. This is going to pay off for the other federations big time. Blatter is cleaning house, replacing a lot of FIFA offices held by Europeans with other nationalities.

Where does this leave UEFA.?? Very bitter. They just announced they will not play in the Confederations Cup past 2005, The Fed Cup was always Blatters baby, so was the Club Championship which got the ax last year. The Euros are taking their ball; and going home. Although it is not too late to make changes to UEFA qualifying spots for 2006, I would be surprised to see that happen. Still I think a lot of the non-european nations will demand changes and soon!!!.

One solution would have a few of the existing slots be alloted as "at-large", lumping the losing team in each of the confederations qualifying play to a "repechage". This second chance group might seem to favor European teams, but I'd like too see a home and home series between the Netherlands and Guatamala. Canada and the Ukraine,? how about Columbia and Burkino Faso? make it a real World Cup even in the qualifying stages!!.

OG

You and I are right on the same page, finally.

"Where does this leave UEFA.?? Very bitter. They just announced they will not play in the Confederations Cup past 2005, The Fed Cup was always Blatters baby, so was the Club Championship which got the ax last year."

I hated both those competitions anyway -- they never seemed to "fall" right. Just like some of the first rounds of WC02, it was simply a chance to see some great players sit the bench, or play poorly, or wonder what happened. For both Euro's AND great non-Euro sides, I mean.

"The Euros are taking their ball; and going home. Although it is not too late to make changes to UEFA qualifying spots for 2006, I would be surprised to see that happen. Still I think a lot of the non-european nations will demand changes and soon!!!."

Yeah, can't blame 'em. They have consistent long-term soccer support. Because of the economics of developing a market, that means FIFA spends LESS attention / slots / money on them. Gotta piss ya off.

"One solution would have a few of the existing slots be alloted as "at-large", lumping the losing team in each of the confederations qualifying play to a "repechage"."

This is just what I'm suggesting, in different form. More inter-continental qualifying. I look forward to it. Loved the Iran-Ireland series, couldn't predict it, saw some good footie, got to know the whole "clash of cultures" thing that we look forward to in full WC-finals play.

"This second chance group might seem to favor European teams,"

Nah. I disagree.

" but I'd like too see a home and home series between the Netherlands and Guatamala. Canada and the Ukraine,? how about Columbia and Burkino Faso? make it a real World Cup even in the qualifying stages!!."

Of course, it doesn't matter WHO it favors, since they'd be PLAYING the games rather than simply allocating spots without comparing the different continents. I think Holland would bet Guatemala, but not necessarily Honduras. I think Ukraine is an EXCELLENT side. But there are lots of non-Euro possibilities -- Colombia and just about anyone; Slovenia, Faeroe Islands, Malta, fuggin VATICAN is fielding a team for 2006 qualifying! And they're all just "packing" the numbers.

But ... but but but ... where I disagree with your assessment is, that I don't think spots at WC-finals are allocated on the basis of a percentage of the whole. They don't count up the total Europeans, then say, "well, since they have SO MANY nations, they need LOTS of spots." I think they count up the GOOD teams in a given continent. Problem is, then they ignore the count, deduct from CONCACAF, add to Asia, and say "see, aren't we mathematical?" Heh. I agree Faeroe Islands or Malta shouldn't outweigh Colombia or El Salvador. Those Euro "nations" are just padding in the barrel, while the Latin ones are "real" soccer teams. But is that how FIFA comes up with its formulae? I don't think so. If they did, then there'd be LOTS more CONCACAF slots, given that there are so many minnows here as well (go Montserrat!!!).

Jack Warner, Concacaf President and FIFA vice president has already put in a bid for a fourth WC qualifying spot, touching upon all the issue that we on this board has thouroghly discussed in the last few weeks!!.

Meanwhile the middle-east is sweating bullets big time. Their luke warm support for Blatter, during the UEFA attack and the really bad showing by the teams (8-0???), have led them to believe that they might lose a spot. So it begins. Apperently there are enough people in FIFA that think a rearrangement of qualifying spots will probably happen.

Possible Winners and Losers:

Concacaf: Winner--great showing at WC plus staunch support for Blatter during the FIFA non-scandal. should net them that 4th spot.

Comebal: Winner: Support for Blatter plus Brazil winning it all, shows that they may get that 5th spot free and clear instead of a play-off with Oceania.

Asia/Far East: Winner. Despite lack of strong support for Blatter, You cant argue with the success of Korea and Japan, expect another full spot or at least a playoff spot

Africa: Nuetral. They should hold on to their spots, but not gain any. Only one team, Senegal did anything. And a lot of African nations but not all supported UEFA and Hayateu.

Oceania. Loser. Was lobbying for their own qualifying spot, kiss that goodbye for now.

Far East: Loser. Terrible showing, most vulnerable to having its second spot reduced to a playoff.

UEFA: Loser. Overall a dismal showing at the WC. The attempted coup will come back to bite them in the butt. I expect them to lose at least 2 spots.

Some reports have UEFA losing as many as 4 spots. I expect thats good bargaining table fodder for Blatter as he tries to push his agenda throught FIFA.

OG

Hahahah UEFA losing 4 spots. That's nuts. That could effectively have left out Germany, Denmark, Turkey, and Belgium ... all contenders. I understand your explanation of how FIFA works, don't get me wrong. But I'd really rather see the good teams at the Cup, than the teams that got to advance because they came from underprivileged regions. Sure, I'd love to see Honduras / El Salvador have a bit more of a shot at it, I guess; not to mention Colombia, Chile, et al.. But to privilege Korea over Holland, Iran over Germany, Egypt over Ireland ... is simply to pick skin color over ability. It's bigoted.

I guess FIFA's actually going about this from a very intelligent institutional model. They serve those who will most likely preserve the continued existence of the institution, rather than those whom they CLAIM it's their avowed function to serve. "For the good of the game" ... they're as smart as the Vatican ... clearly means, "For the good of the people who talk about the good of the game; namely, FIFA." Pity.

Maybe the pre-qualifying tournaments will become more interesting, as more intercontinental competitions will become necessary. Although the Australia-Uruguay series was kind of a yawner, I would like to see more of the Iran-Ireland type of thing. It's possible nowadays. Maybe USA and Canada could start competing more with Europe -- we can both afford it, we would benefit from the experience, half our players are over there anyway, and (most important!) NO MORE LATIN REFS FOR GAMES AGAINST LATIN NATIONS!!

Let me clarify, UEFA does not stand to lose 4 spots. They MAY lose 4 direct qualifying spots. That is, 2-4 spots may be playoff spots not between UEFA teams only, but may be split among other confederations. More like an "at-large spot". IMHO,this may be the only solution that may work. Instead of having the second place team in each of the UEFA groups play each other for a the final qualifying spots, you may be seeing those teams play the third Asian team, the fifth African Team, 4th Concacaf team or 5-6th place Comebol Team, or so on...

In previous years having at-large spots like this would be just like giving UEFA the spots. I think now, however, the other nations more likely would win several of the spots, given the evidence from the last WC.

This is at least an idea that is being bandied around FIFA right now.

OG

Since we are talking about soccor here is my favorite team.


http://www.rdaonline.com/demo/fifa2002/

FIFA is leaning toward 36 teams on South America suggestion. Oceania was given a berth so SA gets back spot it was losing plus a possible one with a playoff team (unclear which continent) and to keep Europe happy give them 2 more spots. I can't believe this B.S.. Concacaf gets the short end of the stick. With this formula, why not invite 64 teams like the NCAA, too many teams from Europe, South America, Asia, Africa.
9 group winners plus 7 runner up would move to round of 16. At least competition would force teams to finish first.
Anyway best team in the world is Real Madrid so they should get a berth too.

I seriously doubt that the WC will be expanded to 36 teams in 2004. Its a FIFA salve to the SA nations who were rewarded with their terrible play in the WC with a reduction of qualifying spots. Although FIFA will give it lip service, UEFA opposes it, and everybody knows, UEFA, who has the most votes on the FIFA board, pretty much gets what it wants....most of the time. Last summer I knew, after the results of the WC, that the qualifying spots would/should change, with the benefits going to CONCACAF and Asia, for their great play, and the loses going to SA, Africa and UEFA. This is pretty much what happened. Now SA want their spot back, and the only way they're going to get it, is to add additional teams.

The proposal doesn't add new spots to CONCACAF, or Asia, but to the, IMHO, the the underperforming African and and SA teams. It gives back a spot to UEFA for political reasons and to garner votes. In other words, it would "undo" the allocation for qualifying spots based on WC performance--back to square one.

That being said, I wouldn't say anything is a sure thing when it involves World Soccer, FIFA and the personalities involved.

OG

My suggestion is to allow two extra spots to the continent which is holding the world cup. This would force FIFA to have a different continent each world cup until all continents are filled. The only problem would be Africa, where their are very few safe venues or countries with enough revenue to support a World Cup. I keep daydreaming how great it would be if Brazil or Thailand would host a world cup. They both have the venues and the facilities for it. They would just have to add another state-of-the-art stadium as a venue for the semi-finals and finals. The next Eurocup is in Portugal and I would love to go.

OG
2004 is Euro in Portugal.

Blazers
Don't need to dream as WC is rotating continents after next world cup. Sounds like South Africa in 2010, then Brasil in 2014. Yes as all South American members have joined to have only one candidate to host SA WC.
Well I don't know about Thailand. We may be all dead by then.
2018 would be Mexico or USA's turn if logic prevails.

Athos

You are correct. I was of course referring to the next World Cup in 2006. By the way, the vote for 36 teams has been tabled for two months. Most likely to lobby those against it, particularly Franz Beckenbaur who is against the change, and who is also the organizer of the 2006 WC. FIFA does not make a habit of going against the wished of the organizing nation.

Another tidbit:
UEFA along with the major professional clubs in Europe is lobbying hard for a piece of the WC money. The believe they are entitled to it for compensation, for the time "their" players are called away to friendlies and for qualifying tournements, as well as compensation for injuries. The draft proposal does not call for any monies to other teams or confederations, apparently their losses cannot be as significant, therefore need not be addressed.

"La Revencha de la Mencha" is the hype the Mexican Press is giving this thursday's US vs Mexico match. As the US is only providing an all MLS team and is only really using this match as a tuneup for the more important Gold Cup and Confederation Cup matches this summer, the Mexican
team, which has called up several foreign players for this match, figures they will win and thus get some retribution for last summers loss to the US in Korea. The hype in the Mexican Press is far greater than warrants for a freindly.

OG

OG
Mexicans never win in anything important so let them enjoy themselves.
I think the major problem with European teams is UEFA champions league got too many games with round robin play. In the past, clubs never complained about international game.

My preference would be for 32 or even fewer (24?) teams at the final tournament, but more inter-continental qualification play, and perhaps a pre-tournament half-way-through qualifying mini-tournament in, umm, May-ish, to determine the final tournament's teams for June/July. So a pre-WC mini-WC, out of which the WC contenders arise -- thus the qualification for the final tournament is less continentally biased, more inter-continental.

I bemoan the lack of spaces for Central America -- with USA's resources, and Mexico's dominance, there's essentially only one remaining space for almost twenty oft-valid nations. But I don't like the idea of simply increasing final-tourney spaces to rectify that, cuz you don't necessarily give the spots to the folks who deserve it. More spots for Africa doesn't help Barbados.

Further, in 2002, even with lots of spots to (for example) Europe, we didn't necessarily see Europe's best teams at the final tourney. The Dutch and the Czechs both stayed home in deference to (ahem!) Slovenia or Denmark, because qualifying groups were skewed to favor numerical rather than able nations. So to speak. Same situ., diff. continent, with Columbia, El Salvador, Honduras, Morocco, Iran, Australia, ...

For me, the problem isn't the number of spots or the allocation of spots per continent. The problem is the use of an allocative system at all.

Why not mix-n-match more, such that final spots at the final tourney go to best teams through more mixed-up qualifying, regardless of what continent they're from? That way, we COULD get twenty European teams, OR six Central American teams, or any other numerical arrangement, all depending on who beats whom rather than on which continental association licked Blatter's bum the fastest.

I suspect the 36-team arrangement is going to go through, over UEFA's objections. We'll see, and I hope Central America gets another spot or at least a half-spot out of it.

And I still want USA to trounce Mexico this Thursday. Dallas (?), 8pm ET kickoff.

Germany is opposed to 36 so that's not going to happen in 2006 as they are the hosts. So SA loses a spot to Oceania but WC winner does not get a spot so what am I saying, no one loses a spot.

Any system in which France plays Senegal and LOSES is fine by me....



BS

I don't know how many of you follow the EPL, but I though it was great that Brad Freidel was named the EPL's best goalkeeper a la the The PFA "Best 11".

Receiving these accolades has meant that he has been closely followed by every big name team from Real Madrid to Bayern Munich. With wins against Man United as well as Arsenal (in addition to a league high 14 shutouts) He is currently considered one of the best (if not the best) goalkeeper in Europe and possibly the world.

This bring up an interesting game this weekend. Blackburn Rovers (Friedels Team)who are currently 7th in the EPL, need to get to 6th to secure a place in the lucrative UEFA Cup tournament next year. Blackburn made it to the third round of the UEFA Cup tourney this year, only to be sent home by Glasgow Celtic.

By winning Sunday's game against Tottenham (Kasey Kellar's team)and hoping that Everton (curently in 6th) lose to Man U. Blackburn are in.

Many English football pundits are writing that if Blackburn does not make the UEFA Cup tournament (and get the millions each team receive), they most certainly will have to trim the payroll. Among those teams looking for a keeper of Brads caliber is Manchester United, who have not been impressed with the play of Fabian Barthez lately. Several papers have linked Freidel with a transfer to Man. U. Graham Souness Blackburn's manager, who is keen to keep Freidel after signing him this year to a new 4 year deal, has conservatively establised his worth to Blackburn (and a subsequent transfer fee) of around $20-25 million dollars. Which puts in in the same bracket as Figo, Ronaldo and Beckham.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out this summer.

OG
I think Figo was tranfered for 56M and Zidane for 75M or so but Figo was 3 years ago.
With less TV revenues, expect much less transfer fees unless Real starts transfering players to itself.
Everton is not a bad team, they can play for a tie as ManU has already clinched title.
The big game this weekend is Liverpool at Chelsea for last Champion league spot. Not sure who gets through with a tie.
Friedel is a very good goalie except he does not come out enough when the ball is in the air.
Keller is not that good, average imho.
Barthez is not any good. Alex is going to get rid of him.

Barthez has indeed slumped. What the heck happened? Something about the 'keeper's temperament, he just went walkabout mentally sometimes. David James does the same for West Ham -- they call him "Calamity James." When he's on, he's ON, but then sometimes he goes "off" just to see if he can challenge himself, or something -- turns into trouble, as it were.

Excellent point about Man U purchasing Friedel. I could certainly see Sir Alex wanting someone of that "big game" caliber ... especially thanks to Friedel's World Cup (and other "top level") experience.

About Keller -- he used to be awesome, but is slipping lately. He's still one of the top six or so keepers in England, and certainly one of USA's top three, IMO. He is the man who pushed Friedel to the heights that he's at right now, that two-man competition going on for the USA spot, and at WC time Keller and Friedel were 99% equal -- how big that 1% looks now!

But Tottenham (my favorite team!) has had a lot of oddity going on -- injuries, strange old-boy new-boy networking, defensive shuffling, poor man-management by the coach (who's really just a great ex-player, not much of a "coach" at all), bad results against bad teams but good results against good teams, etc., etc.. So I don't think Keller's EPL performances are a fair representation of what he might be able to still accomplish, because the context is misrepresentatively wonky.

I thought whatsisname who played for USA against Mexico did very well. The MEX-USA game was ho-hum -- I've seen it all before, really, yet more of the same stuff.

I was most impressed with

(*) Donovan and Beasley, both of whom showed not only (predictable) their blazing speed and great ball control, but also (surprising, at least to me) remarkable tactical and "soccer" awareness for such young, inexperienced, often poorly-coached people, and

(*) The USA defender, whose name I can't remember, who got subbed at about :70 minutes. Worked his ass off.

(*) the new coach for Mexico managing (how!!??) to squeeze out of the Mexicans their typically Latin temperamental hysteria, such that they actually played in order to win rather than in order to be bitchy. Plus he wears boots, jeans, a suede jacket, and a tie -- he can't be all bad with that "real people" outfit on.

Neither the USA nor the MEX side is "fully world class," there were so many passes that went awry I just wanted to moan "GET A CLUE!!" but it's still a great regional rivalry. I'm delighted the USA can finally field a team worth playing in that rivalry, after suffering through the 70s, 80s, and early 90s with 'em as a "fan" of the game.

Nice to see Karl-Heinz Granitza and Carlos Alberto getting to the USA Soccer Hall of Fame in Oneida (Oneonta? can't remember). Gotta go some day.