Travis

I've not read any other responses to your post and so I'm probably going to be repeating what others are saying. Let me give you a feel for what you're getting into.

Unless you are a "man of leisure" you have a job in the USA. You will spend time travelling to and from, along with 8-10 hours of work. You'll be around peers that you have things in common with and can easily chat with throughout the day. Some might even be friends of yours from the past few years. Let's estimate you'll be busy for 10-12 hours a day with work and commute. After your long, difficult, draining day at work, you're going to come home to someone that hasn't had a social outlet for the whole day and wants to have some fun!!

This girl, while she's sweet, caring, loving, attentive... (I'm sure the list goes on), she's also a very SIMPLE person. If she's from a wealthy family she's completed high school (maybe some college) - the equivalent of grade 8-9 in the US. However, I've NEVER met anyone from Samar that's wealthy!! Rich families do not send their daughters to work in AC. So, she's probably got a 4-6th grade education. What are you two going to talk about EVERY day you two are together? The weather? How the US economy is weakening the dollar to most foreign currencies? Perhaps the latest issue of US News and World Reports will provide some interesting chit-chat over dinner...

When she's in the Philippines, she's surrounded by many people that understand her. This is not a language issue, but rather cultural. She can easily communicate with others because they understand she's more then the words coming out of her mouth - they understand Filipinas. When she comes to the US she loses this support system. How are you going to react when you get that first telephone bill for $1000US? What about when you come home to find her crying in the corner because she misses her family? These things are NOT easily fixed with a nice shag and pat on the ass.

When she wants something to eat, she goes outside and waits for the street vendor she wants to push by his cart and then she can have lunch. How about your house? Can she walk out the front door and have access to this? Will she walk to the grocery store? Is it close? Will you buy her a car and teach her how to drive?

One of the things that makes her so... intoxicating is how "different" she is from the women you meet in the US every day. Once she starts living in the US she's going to learn to BE like women in the US. If she hooks into the local Filipino community then ALL the other Pinays that befriend her will accelerate this process.

Do not doubt this is someone you will be TAKING CARE OF FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!! She's going to be dependent on you regardless of whether you two are married. If you stay married you better get used to her frequent trips to the PI. I hope you like the smell of fish because your house will SMELL LIKE OLD FRIED FISH FOREVER!!

Let's revisit the family issue. Her family SENT her to work in AC!! Now, you may say "they don't know she's working there." BULLSHIT!! Suddenly their beautiful, young, sexy daughter is earning more then ANY other family member and shipping home a LOT of money!! You think they DON'T know where it's coming from?!?! They are encouraging her to sell herself so they can have a better life. This is the reality of her family. If you marry her you will be supporting people like this FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIVE!! After a few years (if she doesn't divorce you and take ALL your money) the flow of family members will begin. I hope you realize you are expected to host all visiting and recently naturalized family and friends. They WILL stay until you kick them out!! This is, pretty much, your BEST case scenario unless she really DOES have a Filipino boyfriend you don't know about!! Then all bets are off and you will bleed money until the day you drive your car off a cliff...

Marriage will change your life - marrying a FOB Filipina will stress you in ways you CANNOT imagine!!

She's young and immature and having a good time. That's OK. Realize she WILL get older, but she's not going to mature much. It's going to be like having a child that will never grow up.

Now, I've painted a GRIM picture here, but many that UNDERSTAND how ex-bargirls think/work (I know yours is "different") know you're in for a shitstorm. Ask Blazers how many "ex-cherry girls" are coming to him to help them fleece their Navy husbands!!

This is a rather disorganized rant churned out at 5am here in an internet cafe in BKK so structure and spelling are kind of out the window on this one. However, this is TOO IMPORTANT to just ignore!! You really have no idea what you're about to get yourself into.

I know you feel bad about what her life will turn into if you DON'T marry her. Well, did you feel bad about that first girl in high school you deflowered? Did you marry her too? Maybe she didn't turn into a whore, but she also didn't have a family PROMPTING her to become one!! You are not there to save her. If you save her are you gonna save her cousins/friends? What about all the OTHER girls in AC that "deserve" saving? Seems like a really shitty thing I'm saying here (or maybe shitty way of saying it) but you shouldn't marry her out of pity. Your pity will only keep you warm for so long before it turns cold. Then, you are left with an empty marriage/home...

Many like you have said "my girl's different." Asia vets have a saying: "Don't tell me your girl's different unless she has 3 tits." You may not believe this now, but it's true girl.Unless you've left out some VERY interesting details, your girl does NOT meet this criteria.

If she's willing to wait a few months for you, maybe you two should wait a few years. Time will give you a better perspective. See if she pressures you to marry. I've heard it all and if you wait long enough you'll hear it too.

Do not think that ALL Filipinas living on that island are bad. Many are nice, sweet, generous girls that have NEVER worked a bar. Nurses, waitresses (in restaurants), movie attendants, shopkeepers at the mall have not worked a bar and so do not understand how to commodify their bodies. Sure, yours is a cherry girl, but she still understands this principle. She knows that when the guy buys her a drink she's gonna be the feature entertainer in a game of grabass. She can go back to AC and let some guy feel up her sweatermeat and delicious ass and make a whole P60 for that. Soon, she'll begin to think "Hey, that's not so bad."

She's a product of that environment whether you like it or not. Doing this can have consequences that could ravage/destroy your life.

Sorry to be such a dick about this...

E

Epi; Damm brother talk about tough love. This thread is HARSH......but true.

I did my time in the navy, and let me tell you that every one of those swinging dicks that got hooked up with a Filipina ended up with a house full of her relatives.

There are two things to remember.
(1) Friends don't let friends marry third world hookers.
(2) Leave the toys in the sandbox.

Roadglide

Right on, Epi & Roadglide. Well said. Sounds like good advice for us garota-philes, too.

Epi,Very sage advice,grasshopper,also roadglide.If anyone does`t "get it"they are beyond hope and help!This should be #1 cheatsheet everyone should carry.Otta be archived right under S.E.Asia

Actually this should be good advice for any section of Club Hombre.

True if you grab a Chica, or Garota from Central or South America the odds of ending up with her mom, dad, sister, etc is less.

However if you are 40 something and you are bringing back a 20 something girl, don't expect it to last after she get's that green card.

Roadglide

So you just go back and get another one?...

One myth though that keeps being perpetuated is that "good" Filipinas are less likely to give you problems in the U.S......not true...they're worse. The educated Filipinas can and usually are more devious in that they are educated and have a master plan as soon as they get here. I have seen more success stories with guys marrying Filipina bargirls than guys marrying "good" girls. This is only a small sample, but being a divorce lawyer in San Diego...I have seen a lot. The good filipina girls are craftier and are very organized...if you look at their Tony Robbins goal sheet it probably looks like this:

1. Marry Kano and get fiance visa
2. Wait two years for green card.
3. Start having condomless sex daily to get new anchor and retirement plan called child. As soon as you pop the child out, stitch up and go for another kid.
4. If he wants divorce before green card, get restraining order and make up false domestic violence claim to stay in country and apply for green card with domestic violence exception
4. Once you get green card, start wearing sexy clothes to entice new hubby to adjust mother and father and other children she didn't tell you about. Get them visas and have them all move in to your house.
5. Wait 3 more years for filing of divorce papers so I can get spousal support. Then get spousal support and attempt to claim community interest in a portion of his retirement. ALL FILIPINAS KNOW COMMUNITY PROPERTY LAWS. It's the number one thing they gossip about except food.

6. Apply for naturalization and wait for citizenship papers. Once I get citizenship papers, I will buy a plane ticket to PI and reunite with my boyfriend who I have been supporting(and you thought it was her brother) and apply for fiance visa for him. Once he gets his visa, we will all move in with relatibs in new house in San Diego and live off of hubby's spousal support, child support and retirement. This will allow the good Filipina to finish her education and get a good job to support the relatibs.

The caveat to this is that bargirls are a lot more simple at times and sometimes this simplicity can lead to infinite happiness BUT be careful in who you choose and take a lot of time to decide your fate.

Blazers, how about the Brasileiras?

Thank you, this is eye opening advice. I have been making friends with Philippina girls in yahoo chats. One is finishing her university, the other works in an office.

From what you say, this type of Philippinas (educated), are more dangerous than bar girls. Man, what are we men to do? It is nice to keep mongering but we are also not getting any younger.

Pre-Nuptials
Blazers, do prenuptials help? If so, what should be stated in a prenuptial? Can prenuptials be used to keep your house and, more importantly, your children in case of a divorce?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, Yes, and yes but not child support. I am a family lawyer so inbox me when you get to that point.

I am a longtime poster on the Mexico board who is known to many of you. I've been meaning to make this particular post for a while, but since it will require me to divulge some rather personal information, I decided to do it under another handle to maintain the privacy of my regular one.

This post deals with the topic of long-term relationships with foreign-born women, and in this case, marriage. I am able to view this from a perspective that few others can, for reasons that will become obvious as you read on. I am currently married to a woman from the Philippines whom I met through rather unconventional circumstances. I need to point out up front that she is NOT a former "working girl", but the means by which we met fall well outside the range of what society would call normal. I think there are many aspects of my experience that members of this board might find relevant, so I've decided to share it. Here is my story.

Back in the mid 1980's, I was a twentysomething, fresh out of school, just getting started in the professional world. I was shy, awkward around women, and definitely not what you'd call a Casanova. One day, a strange letter arrived in the mail with a Philippine stamp on it. It was from one of those international matchmaking (okay, "mail order bride") outfits. My first impulse was to toss the thing in the trash, but something persuaded me to open it. Even then, I had a strong preference for foreign-born women, and upon further consideration, I said, "what the hell," and sent in a completed application along with a fee.

Side note: To this day, I have no idea how that letter found its way into my mailbox. I suspect it was a prank performed by a co-worker.

A few weeks later, letters from various Filipinas started arriving. This was before the Internet and email; the letters were handwritten, and most contained snapshots. The letters ranged in tone from quite formal to casual. A few of the girls made no bones about their desire to find a foreign husband. Those didn・t get answered, for getting hitched was not really what I was after. But I tried to reply to most of them, not having any idea where all this would lead. I was simply having fun and enjoying this somewhat misdirected attention from beautiful, exotic women from a part of the world I knew little about at that point. It was fairly similar to the feeling I・d have, many years later, upon entering the Adelita Bar in Tijuana for the first time.

A couple more weeks passed. I'll bet I heard from 50-60 ladies, all told. Very quickly, one began to emerge from the crowd as my favorite. There were no innuendoes from her about marriage, nor did she appear to have any agenda other than being my friend.

Soon, I was writing to her exclusively, leaving a trail of unanswered letters from other girls. Gradually, over a period of several months, the letters acquired a romantic tone. Many pictures were exchanged; these were supplemented by cassette-tape voice recordings, and not long after that, by phone calls.

About a year after first contact, with letters still flying back and forth at a rate of two or three a week, I started hearing remarks from her about "other suitors", and all the other hints that typically go along with that. Being young and very naive, I didn't handle this attitude shift very well. I was totally smitten at this point, and my tentative plans to fly over to the PI were put on the fast track. I became frantic with worry when more than a few days went by without a letter from her. I lost about thirty pounds from the stress. But about a year and a half after we first started writing to each other, I made it over to the PI for a week. One week was all I could afford. The first day I was there, I proposed marriage and she accepted. I met her parents and siblings, asked for their approval and received it. Looking back at it now, that week is a blur to me. I remember very little of it. There was a heavenly three-day vacation in Baguio, but all too soon, it was time to fly back to the US, leaving behind a fiancee that I had spent a grand total of seven days with, face-to-face.

I applied for a fiancee visa upon returning home; getting one was much less of a hassle in those days. My friends were telling me I was nuts. What do you really know about this girl, they asked me. But I'd been writing to her for almost two years. And, I told myself, you can learn all you need to know about a person through writing. Can't you?

She flew over to the US, and within a couple of months we were married. And that's where the romantic fantasy ended, and reality began.

Almost from the minute she arrived in this country, she was unhappy. Homesickness was a big part of it, no question. That's understandable. But it went deeper than that, and perhaps "dissatisfied" is a better term than "unhappy". The romantic fantasy that had been nurtured through two years of being pen-pals with someone from a strange, exotic part of the world had raised the expectation bar so high, for both of us, that it would prove impossible for either one of us to approach it.

The cultural adjustment was formidable for her. And when I couldn't smooth it over for her, she put the blame on me. Resentment began to build, and it ran both ways. At that point, I was still a young professional and wasn't earning enough to be able to send large sums of money to her family in the PI. She got a job herself, but that still wasn't sufficient. This caused more tension, because as I'm sure many of you know, sending money home to the family is an expected part of the deal. I hadn't thought that through ahead of time. I was too preoccupied with the romantic fantasy.

Within six months after we were married, she was pregnant. This raised a whole new set of issues. After our daughter was born, she became extremely homesick. She was unable to share the experience with her family back home. And once again, in her mind, it was my fault. I was working two jobs AND staying up all night to help tend to a crying baby, but still... it was all my fault.

Soon after that, there was a brief, slight upturn. She became a US citizen. At about that time, she, along with our daughter, went back to the PI for a month-long vacation. I knew I'd be a third wheel if I went along, so I stayed behind. Not too long after their return, she was pregnant again. And after the birth of our second child, a long, excruciatingly slow period of marital deterioration set in, one that lasted many years.

Homesickness was no longer an issue. She had discovered that a large, close-knit Filipino community existed in our local area... something that amazingly, I had not been aware of. She began to make friends... lots of them. I encouraged that, because I thought that giving her an outlet would reap dividends all around.

But the more she became involved with the local Filipinos, the less use she had for me. Becoming an important part of this group became a major priority of hers. And her being married to a "kano" proved to be a hindrance in this pursuit. Once again, I became a third wheel, especially when our kids found friends within the same group. It became apparent that my presence was not especially desired at family-oriented social gatherings, not only by my wife, but her friends as well. How ironic is it that I found myself playing the role of the discriminated-against foreigner? And most who know me would vouch that I am a very culturally-sensitive guy. Eventually, I stopped going to these gatherings. I started to forge my own existence, and sought my own outlets, some of which landed me on this particular board. My wife and I had become two totally different people, with different goals and interests. Yes, this happens in many marriages, but when cultural differences are involved, this problem is readily exacerbated.

Our sex life was never that great to begin with; we both had unrealistic expectations in that area as well. At about the 12-year mark, it ground to a halt completely. But I had needs, and I had to meet them somehow. I had no desire to run out and have an affair, for that would introduce an innocent third party into this sad situation. So I made an appointment with a local sex worker. This was the first time I had been unfaithful in over 12 years of marriage. I ended up making several appointments with this one particular girl.

Then, about three years ago, I discovered Tijuana. I・m sure many will deduce that my immersion in the international mongering scene is a twisted attempt at reliving the past and trying to do things in as different a way as possible. Perhaps that is partly true, but I view TJ as, first and foremost, an escape. And when things get too weird or too intense, or begin to hit too close to home, I have the option of retreating back across the border, and leaving that world behind. And most importantly, I can do it without feeling a pang of remorse or guilt.

So where do things stand now in my marriage? Basically, it・s on its last legs. Divorce appears inevitable; the only question is whether it will come sooner or later. We inhabit the empty shell of a marriage that exists only for the nominal benefit of the children that we created. We hardly ever speak to each other; she does her thing, I do mine. This is the end result, after almost two decades, of unrealistic expectations borne from a misguided romantic fantasy, despite good intentions on both our parts. That may sound harsh, but I believe it to be accurate.

What does this story have to do with this board? Well, I'll tell you. I've seen plenty of evidence out there that many readers of this board grossly underestimate the challenges involved with maintaining a long-term, permanent relationship with a woman from another culture. I won't say that it can't be done. Of course, it CAN be done. I've seen a few examples of it myself over the years. But what one has to guard against is the mistaking of love for romantic fantasy. No matter how you slice it, you can・t claim to be certain of absolute compatibility with a girl you know only through letters, or email, or even (especially!) through a series of commercially-oriented trysts in a hooker bar. That last point deserves emphasis. I've had enough trouble with a "good girl". Introduce "working girl" issues, and everything gets multiplied tenfold. I've seen a few not-so-pleasant examples of that as well.

In summary, I'm not saying that all inter-cultural relationships/marriages are doomed to failure. I'm all for evaluating each situation on its own merits. What I AM saying is that one needs to be aware of the unanticipated issues you'll encounter. How will you handle her being homesick? You can fully expect her to blame you for it, and you'd better come up with a way of dealing with that. Are you ready to feel left out when she's with a group of people of her own nationality? Sooner or later, it will happen. And if you don't speak the language, you're doubly screwed. How much of your income are you willing to fork over to keep her family? And no matter how open-minded or culturally rich you may be, everyone has a comfort zone. How much are you and your sweetie willing to move outside of it, or even expand it, without feeling resentful or impinged-upon? Your HONEST answer is a good predictor of your success in maintaining a long-term relationship with someone of a different nationality.

And if you can do it, you're a better man than I am.

Magpie
Thanks for sharing such a personal story ! Very well expressed.
There are many similarities to my experiances when I brought my first Thai wife to US. Did not meet by mail but had been together physically only for a total of about 6-8 weeks before she came to US. I think a big problem is the 6 month fiancee visa. Way too short to really find out how you will get along. After a quick 6 months it's either get married or she's gone-- way too much pressure and leads to bad decision making.
Many of same problems-- no support group-- no Thai community in LA beach cities. Hollywood is a long drive away. She felt alone and isolated. Drained my bank account sending money back to mom. Blamed me for making her leave Thailand and her family etc. It is a relationship that frequently does not work. Seems Drewwwho is pulling it off so far but I believe his is a minority experience.

I've learned my lesson--
This time I am moving to Thailand to be with my teerak-- Then I can do all the blaming !!

What a coincidence, the girl i know wants to go to Baguio as well!

But what about pre-nuptials? I told her about prenuptias and she agreed. What I do not know is this, can i put down in the pre-nuptial that i want to keep the kids, 100% of my salary and the house in case of a divorce?

thanks

Andres
You can put in anything financial but the kids cannot be included in any pre-nup. They are not property and custody ,if disputed, has to be settled by the court.
Be careful with pre-nup especially with foriegn girl. Her lawyer will no doubt claim you took advantage of her inability to speak English and her ignorance of US law to try to nulify pre-nup. Blazers would be able to help you more on this topic I'm sure.
My ex wife told me many times when we were first married-- If we ever divorced all she wanted was a one way ticket back to Thailand. I never got it in writing and Boy did I regret it later !!!!

Funny thing, i just talk last week with my lawyer friend on this same issue, he said any time you deal with a foriegner always have a translater so you can talk to her in her language.

>>>Be careful with pre-nup especially with foriegn girl. Her lawyer will no doubt claim you took advantage of her inability to speak English and her ignorance of US law to try to nulify pre-nup.

Sounds like it might even be a good idea to pay a few bucks for a professional translation of the prenup into their native language, and have them sign both?

If you do a pre-nup she needs to have it looked at by her lawyer and she MUST pay for her legal fees herself.

Just make sure her lawyer is a dumbass.

Always have her consult another lawyer and have him present at the signing of the prenup. The interpreter is usually a must but you must ask the preliminary language questions if you feel her English is satisfactory.

The thing I cannot understand about SEAsian people is how they want to get the fuck out of their country due to the poverty and corruption that exists but as soon as they get to the US, they suddenly think that life back in their shithole is better. Missing the family especially hits home for Filipinos because most of them come from a family that includes 10-13 brothers and sisters....it is a town unto itself. Pulling them away from that causes a huge amount of resentment.

Better yet, have the prenup written in English, and translated into their language. Make sure they sign both copies, and the copy in their language.

OH

Khun Mor, back when I got hitched, the fiancee visa was only good for 3 months. Imagine that... of course, at that point, there was pretty much no turning back for me.

I can't address the topic of a pre-nup, except to say that I didn't get one, and that yes, it could come back to haunt me.

Damn -- 3 months REALLY sucks. I thought I knew my ex somewhat after 6 months , but about a year later a totally different woman showed up. There has to be some kind of extension to the fiancee visa if you are not sure.
You cannot expect people to make a decision on marriage with a short time limit.
Sorta like a goverment run shotgun wedding !!
I am just now recovering from the lack of a pre-nup after 5 years !!

So, if I get a good prenup, and do this for reasons other than being madly in love with the chica, are there still down sides?

I can see where if I was romantically in love I could get hurt big time (been there, done that - and we never got married).

Are there other downsides for a 50's something monger who is getting tired of traveling and would like to have a 20's something companion in his bed every night??

Just
Curious

Khun mor - Just curious when you got married, are you sure about the 6 months, only asking because i have a fiance visa aplication and it says 90 days to marry, i know for sure that back in the 80`s it was also 90 days with no extensions because my friend married a pinay and he tried to get a extension and was told there was none. But who knows could of been a moron imigration officer, i`m sure there are many out there.

Once she recieves her visa, it's good for 6 months. Once she enters, she has 90 days to get married.

So, if she got the visa and waited a month to enter the US, she has the full 90 days. If she waits 4 months to enter, then she's down to 60 days. If she enters the day after getting the visa, she has the full 90 days.

RJ

Hey guys. Why worry about the 90 day rule? If you do not know her, send her back. You can always do a 2nd 90 day fiance visa.

OH

Sorry all -- now that I think of it , I do believe it WAS 90 days. We got married in 1991 so my memory has fogged a bit. Guess I just wish it had been 6 months although likely still would have made the same mistake. The costume did not come off until year 2 of marriage.

Otrohombre- Good point, do you know anyone who has done this successfully. I believe there`s no limit on the number of fiance visa`s one can apply for.

No limit , but each successive visa will be more difficult to get approved. It is a major hassle in any event.