Not quite off-topic, but it didn't fit anyplace else.

I've been impressed by some that some of you are heading off for two months in Snatchistan or are bouncing between ten days Perversia and a week in Iblowia.

I'd personally love to be able to swing it, but apparently I'm in the wrong business.

So my question to all of you is, what the hell are you doing?

I can sort of understand the folks that are blessed by living 200 feet from the US border, but then I see guys like Explorer talking about every little town in Mexico, plus trips to the Carib and the former Primary Opponent, and I wonder.

So enlighten me, you high-mileage wanderers: What lets you do this? Incredible personal wealth, or is there a job category that has "lots of funny-smelling pussy" as one of the side-benefits. And if so, who's hiring?

Dem Gnomes

Yeah, I want to know, as well. Now that I'm unemployed, what job should I go into that will pay my mongering way, in terms of cash and free time.

I just live 30 minutes fron the alley...
I'd like to know how the other guys do it too...

1) 4 hours sleep a night, you can get used to it.
2) Work 10 hours a day 4 days a week.3)Live no more than 100 miles from the border
4) Have the philosophy that you will not live to reach retirement so you might as well spend it now.
5) If you reach retirement then you should be aware that the SS syatem is running out so you better spend yours while it's available.

Do all of the suggested things on your 3 days off.

Contract employment in the computer field. No stability, no roots, no restraints.

Besides, when you're payed by the hour you can do some interesting tax things...

Bon: more specifics? I'm your typical English major -- lots of useless schooling, never knew what I wanted to do with my life, and also was hatched from an egg (my parents are sheltered non-real-world academic types). What should I do to get to where you're at? I want CASH dammit ...

very interesting topic here.

i know of a few friends of friends who were laid off in nyc and san fran who took several week trips to south american i damn know for sure what their intentions were - all of these guys were in investment banking or traders with mega sized severance packages - never had time to take that kind of time off in their careers so they decided to just do it and look for a job when they get back. lucky guys.

what about you other lucky guys?

Bonvvnt,

More info, please. I'm a travelling rep with full-time employment, but my company has little presence in south (of) america. I was trying to wrangle a position at Ariba (b2b) just before they self-destructed. (Thank god for slow email...)

Dem Gnomes

Well, for the English major I recommend getting into technical documentation (the writing of manuals) which can be done as a contractor as your best bet into the field.

If you're in sales, try one of the companies that DOES have an SA presence (IBM, Microsoft, Seibel, etc) or one that is looking to move internationally.

Personally, I do all of myu projects here (with a few exceptions) and then I spend my spare time there. It doesn't pay any where near as well to work there. I bill my hourly rate here, pay myself less every month and then use the rest to pay myself ehen the project is over and I go traveling.

This project ends in 3 weeks. At that point I will be in Colombia for 2 - 6 weeks depending on when the next one starts.

Sorry for the confusion, I'm not in sales. I'm a "consultant", which basically means I'll do anything you want for the daily rate. The difference is, the company eats the DR, I get a (much lower) salary. This sucks, financially, until the economy slows down like it has. Then, it's good to have the security...

What I think I'm hearing from you is that you work a lot in the US, then spend your off-time down south. Correct? What do you do for a 'home' here in the land of the big PX?

Dem Gnomes

I can't believe anyone would, with a clear conscience, recommend that an English major enter into technical writing.



Seriously, I've thought about that route. It doesn't pay jack-all, and the frustration is that it seldom leads to an entre into a higher-paid position. Writers are sent away for a week, and then asked to return with their product. "Very good. Go away and do it again." This isn't conducive to interacting with people who could promote you or see your other strengths; nor is it really possible to move laterally from it, since the only skill used or learned is ... writing. It's a frustrating conundrum. My college professors lied to meeeee ...

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts despite all that.

Book Guy, you could always consider teaching. It isn't the best paying profession in the world, but it isn't that bad - depending on where and what you teach, and it does offer some significant benefits, such as time off, etc.

Good luck,
TG

Teaching in Thailand pays $0.75 a hour but the cost of living is low. Its the entertainment expense thats high.

Actually, I suspect most tech writers are frustrated teachers, not frustrated writers. This is probably because once you "get into it", there's a set of rules and all that you can validate yourself against, writer-wise. But "Am I conveying the info" becomes the paranoid mantra. As a result, most of the TW's I've worked with have desperately wanted to teach me things.

PS: And they've all written a book, usually about training or technical writing. It just hasn't been published yet. :-|

Book Guy:

The teaching thing is a win because you can go to some remote location and set yourself up and make money teaching English. I promise.

My time in Mexico has shown me that basically every freaking streetcorner has computer and english (sometimes "computer'n'english" in one) classes, run by the head waiter, mechanic, laundress, whatever, that owns the "real" business.

It wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't be difficult to do one of three things:

1- Find&rent a good-sized casa, and run classes out of your sitting room.

2- Find&rent a storefront and run classes there. Many large houses are routinely used for business. If you've been to a dentist, doctor, or architect in the northeastern US, you may already know what I mean, but it's much more common to live over your workplace in Mexico.

3- Find a series (3-4) of small businesses, especially computer schools which don't offer english classes, and negotiate with the dueno to run english classes there. This gives you the respectable front (not NEARLY as important as you will think it is), as well as access to the internet (useful, I suppose, for homework, etc.) and furniture, but costs you half the take, or more. That's why I suggest 3-4 of them - you can go to different neighborhoods and make the same deal many times.

All this supposes, of course, that you speak spanish. If you don't, that's your first goal. Go spend a month in an immersion-language school.

Dem Gnomes

Interesting thoughts about entrepeneurial teaching, Dem Gnomes, thanks. I appreciate anyone commenting.

But my question was more ... how do I get OUT of the teaching / writing trap, not how do I utilize it. It's too much of a dead-end for me. I have an ego, I guess, or something. The "social disrespect" (just COMPARE starting salaries and see what ya get!) and so on ...

So, to rephrase my question. Given that I have a Master's degree in English literature from a HIGHLY reputable institution, but intend to change fields in order to forsake my previous universe and make scads of cash in some manner; and given that I would include mongering as a logistical consideration (income; time off; independence; etc.) what should I do with my life?

BG,

Become a trainer. When you're flying around, or sitting in an office, teaching someone's proprietary software, you can look forward to $55-75k.

If you can wear a suit without having to call tech support, and presuming you're not some drooling antisocial idiot who probably has to leave the country and pay poor third world women for sex ... oh, sorry, my bad, nevermind :-) ... you can stand in front of a group of total strangers, deliver the powerpoint and a few one-liners, and make good dinero.

Dem Gnomes

So how do you get a trainer job? I am PERFECT for this type of job. Computer background and a great temperment and presentation style. Have been looking for a job, but can't find out how to break into a HIGH paying training job. Suggestions?

Headinsouth,

It's been awhile. Sorry if you dropped off. I think the right solution is to become the 'geek' for some sort of software solution in your existing company. That's what I did.

Once the tech.support and field reps knew me, it was easy to ask for an interview when I couldn't take it anymore.

Dem Gnomes

Dem Gnomes --

I'm following this thread with interest. I'm still confused about the conflicts between what I "want to do with my life" (help mankind, become a famous Senator, solve starvation, etc.) and what I "want out of my life" (opportunities for more cash, more mongering, etc.). So I don't really claim to be intelligent on any of these subjects yet. But I hope you're still in on the thread.

I've just met my first trainers -- they train at a certification school that might (just MIGHT) get my money for something like A+, Net+, maybe the core for MCSE -- and I'm wondering if that's what you meant by "trainer." I don't know the tech industry at all. I have found that I can't break into it, largely because my assumptions (that computers prevent most humans from having humane days, and that techies need to get their grubby hands out of manipulating normal people's priorities, and that techies are most definitely NOT normal people) tend to run counter to that universe.

Where should I go to find out more? Should I continue to follow this A+ Net+ track?

You should also know, I'm looking into teaching English somewhere somehow. I dunno, it might pan out. I speak limited (VERY limited) Español, but absolutely no Thai / Bhat / Hmong / Korean / whatever. I love soccer, if that's an issue.

Thanks for the convo. Great to hear from knowledgeable people. PS -- I've mentioned before, but thought I'd repeat (not to toot my own horn), that I hold a Master's Degree (unfortunately, perhaps, it's in English Lit.) from an Ivy institution. Can that help me in any way? So far, it hasn't.

BG,

I'm still following it.

I don't think you'll like the teaching english route. I looked more heavily into that, and it turns out that the "real" language schools pay virtually nothing.

If you're going to do something like that, your best bet is to be able to combine that with some other job.

OTOH: Frankly, I'm not sure how much A+ cert is worth. But if you were an A+ trainer it might be a different story.

What do you do now? (Aside from the food preparation industry, is there any way to make money from an Eng.Lit. degree?)

Dem Gnomes

Gnomonclature ... heh ... thanks for keeping up with the story. The short answer to your last parenthetical question is, NO.

I don't do much right now. I offer a technical writing and / or editing service via a web site with another dude; my family owns some rental properties, where I live rent-free and manage the stopped-up toilets and leaky roof; I play my guitar a lot; I surf the web. I used to be in a doctoral program for even MORE useless degrees in the humanities (medieval vernacular bibliography, it is to laugh), but academia and I parted company (and I can't say which was more happy to see the other go).

I have been "confused" as to what to do with my useless degrees in the humanities since I graduated with the bizarre notion that my English profs had known what the FFFF they were talking about when they told me to "do what you love, and the money will follow." (Like profs know ANYTHING about the real world.) Heh ... bygones ... grr. Anyway, I am qualified to teach; but not to teach something I don't know (such as A+).

The reason I'm pursuing A+ and Net+ is because I've done some research and think I need them. All the computer people whom I know and respect have sort of grilled me on what I know about computers, and then all agreed that if I ever wish to get FURTHER certs (like an MCSE or the database one, is it MCDBA?), which might be in my future, I'll really need the A+ and Net+ knowledge. They concur that some folks won't see any advantage to getting those certs cuz they're too hands-on and basic, but then suggest I'm not one of those people. So, I'm getting the basics down, I guess. I'm trying to do it at minimal cost, since they're only intended for background to something eventually lucrative. It's getting to where an MCSE is pretty common. I've always enjoyed programming, but don't know any languages sufficiently to either succeed at working them, or fool an employer into hiring me.

So, that's my current story. I also am considering pursuing a law degree (an off-and-on fascination of mine, ever since I was little; just like computers) and might do a correspondence certified-personal-trainer thing, just to have another odd-job to fill time and for the resume. Jack of all trades, master of none.

So, really, I'm investigating two questions. One is, what to do with what I've already got; the other is, what else to get. You'd'a thunk I'd be more pinned down by now, in my mid-to-late thirties, but actually I've been stressed and hovering over these same issues for a decade and a half now. Not that a web-board discussion with a stranger will solve all my career problems overnight.

Oh, and by the way, I test very high on the "you should be an entrepeneur" scale in all the peronsality tests, but frankly I hate business. I like attending to spiritual matters, and kind of disdain the whole "rat race" set of assumptions. It's a contradiction, I know. I want money but don't want to work for it; I want to impressive accomplishments but also want to enjoy the path there; etc.

Finally, I guess the last point I'd put on all this self-absorbed commentary, is that I'm actually surprised at just how hard it's been for me to get into an entry-level position in anything. I'm articulate, clean, decently dressed and presentable, cooperative, educated ... you'd think my generation would have had a chance to just sort of "fall into" something. I never really went the "career minded" route, thinking that would be too mercenary and too quickly caught out as either (a) immediately outdated or (b) under-educated (albeit over-trained). I quickly realized I was wrong on that thinking, as I saw the F students who barely succeeded in majoring in Economics making shitloads more than us careful responsible kids from the other side of the humanities divide.

So, I'm willing to jump the divide, and forsake the past mistakes I made. I made them as much because I (and my folks, and most of the people who I respected at the time) made a similar mistake, that "he'll do fine" since I was so clearly skilled in a large variety of things. But that assumption was based on a previous world, a world where an English major was "educated in everything" rather than (as it's now assumed) "trained in nothing." That's where I'm coming from. I describe all of this as much in the hopes that you can empathize and understand -- I don't mean to denigrate people who've accomplished something through a path other than my own; I simply want you (and anyone else reading) to get a "sense" of my plight.

Maybe I just want sympathy.

No, seriously, what I want is money. I just have NEVER had a knack for figuring out how to get it. Ever read "Rip van Winkle"? Ya know at the beginning, how he's always plowing someone else's field but his wife has to beat his ears to make him plow his own? How he volunteers to help raise the community church, but then lets his own roof fall apart? Well, I like working on my own roof, but the metaphor holds anyway. If it's "career professional," I've never done it, and never really realized I OUGHT to have done it, because I always thought I was "more elite" than to NEED to do it. Hubris got the best of me ...

Thanks for listening. If you'd like, e-mail me externally (bookguy at mail dot com) and we can stop boring the rest of the board. Or, other people who sympathize or deride me, can chime in with other commentary. I welcome all viewpoints.

BG

I guess I'll add my two cents worth.

I'm fortunate in that I travel worldwide for a living. I am a software engineer by education but have been doing mostly system engineering work for the past 3 years. Because I travel to different parts of the world I try taking a few days during my business trip to enjoy the "sites". I also try to work it in so that my layovers are in cool countries. Best example I have is the Middle East. There are no US flights directly to the Middle East. I will fly to Amsterdam, UK, or somewhere in Germany then take another courier for the remaining part of my journey.

Since I do so much flying I accumulate many, many airline miles. Nowadays many airline companies share their miles with other domestic and international airlines. I then cash in miles for trips to anywhere I want to go. I also live in San Diego so I can enjoy the treats TJ has to offer. My biggest problem is I use up all my vacation time early in the year. I end up taking time off without pay.

I have met a many ex-pats that live in Asia. They work as English teachers. Their base salary isn’t very much but these guys make the real dough by doing private tutoring. I also know a few guys that are in the civil engineering business. There is a real demand for this discipline all over Asia.

In Europe you’re best bet is to get some sort of DoD job that could land you jobs in the UK, Germany, Italy, etc… These jobs are hard to come by unless you have a specific skill or education.

If you’re single just start spending more time locating at the worldwide job ads. You’ll be surprised what may pop up…

…(prog)

Hey Progman,

You got a job for me? I'm in the SW side, and willing to travel.

Dem Gnomes

BookGuy,

Joke'em if they can't take a fuck.

I understand where you're coming from, since I'm in the same zone (mid-30's) and I *DID* actually "fall in" to my career. Bailed out of university and got a job in the computer biz.

If you're seriously interested in law, why not go for it?

I know at least one lawyer is round-tripping to Mexico to study Spanish (he was in the same school I went to) to support his career via migrant labor clients.

You could do the same thing. In fact, you might even be able to do the reverse, and become a local area expert on some LA country for US companies. (Brazil and Mexico are the two big ones.)

My thought is that you're too old to "fall in" to anything anymore. You're going to be too uptight and know too much about the potential problems to "fall" in anywhere. I think you're going to have to dive in, instead.

Take some classes again. Experiment with law, criminal justice, etc. Once you find something you like, dive in. Get a masters in it. You WILL find there's an international angle available, once you cross over to the "in" side. It might help if you moved close to the US border. That tends to stir up more international stuff than you might expect.

Dem Gnomes

To all and future: thanks for the commentary!

Dem Gnomes,

OK now I know what you were asking.

I am employed by a US company with operations in Tijuana. I live in Tijuana and work in Tijuana.

Prior to moving here, in early 2001, I worked for a Mexican Company in the same industry. I was based in Mexico City for 3 years, but spent a lot of time in the Yucatan.

Before that, I was a consultant to several Mexican manufacturing companies and lived in Quadalajara.

How did I end up working in Mexico? My employer wanted sales in Mexico. I spoke Spanish so I started making frequent trips. My industry is not very large, so I was able to make a lot of contacts and make a name for myself. Some customers began to pay me on the side for assistance with their manufacturing lines. I parleyed that into a full time consulting contract in Mexico and have not looked back since 1996. I am now going on 5 years of full time residence in Mexico.

I would suggest if you are looking for employment in Mexico or South America that you might look into Software consulting. Check opportunities on LatPro.Com, headhunter.net, and Monsterboard International.

On a related note ...

I've been reading some books that have helped me "put it all in perspective," and now I realize that I had a few major problems in formulating my questions. As I posted earlier, I had realized that I was struggling with both (a) "what to do with whatever skills I currently have" AS WELL AS (b) "what other skills to go get," but that's not the only misconception of the rat-race that I had.

A larger misconception -- or, really, correct conception -- that was keeping me from really getting at the core of "what do you want to do with your life" was, that I was trying to WIN the rat-race. Rather than trying to ESCAPE it.

See, we all want money, but we also don't want to work for it. Books like (highly recommended) "What Color is your Parachute" suggest that we can all find a "niche," a place where we LIKE working for our money. Life becomes fulfilling because our time is spent on enjoyable pursuits which, guess what?, we also get paid for. Nice theory. In practice, though, the "enjoyable pursuits" for me would have been fucking, getting sucked, visiting TJ, etc. Obviously, not what the author of "Parachute" meant. There ARE some people who like software engineering, or writing news stories, or dancing the polka, enough that they feel they've found a "fulfilling career" in doing those things. Teachers, for example, often seem to glow with that sort of fulfillment. I've just never had a "calling" of that sort -- I wanted to be an astronaut, a rock star, a fireman, a porn stud, a professional soccer player, a bestselling author, you name it. None really was worth the investment of time and study and climbing the ladder, to me; I didn't "care" enough about one or the other. In fact, I know very few people who DO ... most humans submit to the rat race on the principle that they "should" try to win it, but few recognize how much the race is actually running (and ruining) them.

Meanwhile, works like "Your Money or Your Life" (also highly recommended) would try to teach that there's a way to END the rat-race, by controlling expenses and managing investments such that you end up, eventually, seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. It's basically, rapid-fire retirement based accounting. And self-denial. You create a way to account, month by month, how frugal you're being, and reject all expenses that would prevent earlier and earlier retirement. The extras all go into investments. Naturally, mongering doesn't fit in to THEIR world-view either. If you want to go to TJ between now and retirement, don't read "Your Money or Your Life," or, at least, don't take it literally.

I liked certain aspects of both of those books. I liked the idea that I wouldn't have to work "forever," or until I was so crinkly and rickety I couldn't take advantage of the leisure time I'd earned off from work. I liked the idea that I didn't have to "keep up with the Joneses" in terms of fancy cars and similar stuff, but instead could put that money away for something else. I liked that there might be a community of like-minded people. But I disliked having to be either (a) a nine-to-fiver (you lose so much daylight!) or (b) an entrepeneur (you have to be so danged "committed" all the time). And, as explained, I didn't have a "calling" -- I just DON'T CARE about capitalism all that much. I frankly think the free-market system is obscene -- everyone forced to be radically self-interested in a manner that doesn't come naturally to most humans (was your dining room table a free market of cynical investors out to cut each others' throats, or a communist system of giving and sharing, each Thanksgiving when you were growing up?). I am GRRREAT with numbers, and am obsessive about personal accounting -- I'm down to the penny on everything I own, and regularly catch bank errors -- so there must have been SOMETHING to put my acumen to, right? But WHAT?

Then I found (also also highly recommended) "Rich Dad Poor Dad." This book is obscenely poorly written ... to the point that subjects disagree with verbs and pronouns with antecedents. No better than high-school vocabulary and grammar. But, the contents are remarkable. I have never seen the advantages of "Parachute" and "Money or Life" wrapped so neatly into one ball. And, better yet, "Rich Poor" makes mongering ENTIRELY possible within its worldview / schema / plan to do things.

I don't know all I want to know about any of these subjects, but I do know that I've been formulating my questions wrong all along. I've been seeking in the manners in which "Parachute" suggests we seek -- trying to find a "niche" that I would really like to lock myself up inside. A "happy confinement", as it were. Well, to me, the PROBLEM was the notion of niching myself, confining. "Rich Poor" suggests viewing your assets and liabilities, alone, as the indicators of your financial success, and hence allows you to be "successful" strictly on the basis of what you DO WITH your money, not on the basis of HOW you get it (for starters). So, you don't HAVE to decide whether you're going to be a doctor or lawyer or indian chief. You're MAINLY going to be an INVESTOR.

The thing I like most about "Rich Dad Poor Dad" is that the author says, right in his introduction, that he wanted to be rich and therefore he had to quit his job. Amen to that. I'd always suspected, that being someone else's lackey was a dead-end career ... whether or not that lackey-ness was exactly my "Parachute" niche or not. "Parachute" would have suggested I find some kind of lackey position that was meaningful and fulfilling to me. Haha. "Your Money or Your Life" would have suggested I figure out how to immolate myself on that lackey-ness with careful savings, in order to end it sooner rather than later. Well, nice enough, that they want me to take advantage of it; but not so nice, that they encourage me to endure the misery during the process.

I recommend all these books to all who are reading. The last, "Rich Dad Poor Dad," (and, presumably, all the rest in that series) is a real eye-opener, but I think you have to have the foundations of the other two before you can really take advantage of it.

links at Barnes and Noble:

1. "Your Money or Your Life: transforming your relationship with money and achieving financial independence" by Dominguez and Robin. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0140286780

2. "What Color is Your Parachute: a practical manual for job-hunters and career-changers" by Bolles. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=1580084605

3. "Rich Dad Poor Dad: what the rich teach their kids about money that the poor and the middle class do not" by Kiyosaki and Lechter. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0446677450

Comments?

Batster,

Didn't know about latpro.com. Thanks, I'll try them out.

Dem Gnomes

Bookguy,

I think the thing to do is split the difference.

All the career books assume one of two things:

1- You're okay with your career, but you want to make your nut and start spending time on the golf course.

-or-

2- You're unhappy with your career, and you want a safe way (meaning keep eating while transitioning) to start something new.

I think you need to look at option 3:

3- You're ambivalent about your career, but you have a hobby you want to spend a significant amount of time and money pursuing.

In this regard you're (we're) very much like olympic athletes -- we're mostly not living on sponsorships and ice-skating tours, but instead have to work real jobs to get the money to pursue "our dream".

The best think I can see is to take some of the advice from both groups. Certainly, you want to make a contribution here in the "Trip Reports" section, so you'll need to save up mini-eggs for tickets to Kmaniwanaleia and so forth (What color is...) and at the same time you want to maximize your savings by denying yourself things that DON'T PERTAIN TO YOUR OBJECTIVES.

In other words, be sensible about your trips. Skip two weekend trips to TJ in favor of one week-long blast, etc.

You're right -- the way to "win" the rat race is not to try to get ahead, but rather to steal a pit pass and stand in the middle, watching the other rats go round.

Dem Gnomes

I don't think that I ever answered the question here about what I do for a living that allows me to travel to Snatchistan.

I design spaceships. This takes me to odd places on a frequent basis. I also get to hire employees in places like South America, so I get to supervise them in person from time to time.

As an example, Voronezh, Russia is the home of the Chemical Automatics Bureau, which produces more liquid rocket engines than just about anyone else. So, its off to Voronezh!

Explorer,

You are a Lucky Bastard. My uncle is fairly well known in certain sectors of your industry and he goes to Russia from time to time to help with their space program. He also does alot of work for the government. You may know him.

Batsterwhonowbelievesinsixdegreesofseparation

Gnomes:

Funny thing is, now that I consider myself a nascent mogul who has "an investment goal" rather than "a parachute-like niche," I suddenly don't WANT to monger as much as I used to. It was like, in the absence of long-term planning, I filled the void with false reassurances, such as getting "approval" (a.k.a. panocha) from chicas for a bit of money.

Maybe it'll pass. Sure hope so ... ;)

BG

ESL teaching Question: who knows about teaching English overseas? I have seen some resources which offer the standard bullshit for college students -- basically, no money and a bit of free housing. What about for us adults who need a career? Where / how do I go about researching this? Thanks

Well, talk about a low paying dead end job... But since you asked: www.daveseslcafe.com will give some insight. Stickman's site will get even further into the nitty gritty if it's Thailand you're interested in. Bottom line anywhere is that you can eke out a living in most of the third world by being a native speaker teaching at a language school. Getting a DECENT job usually requires a degree, ESL teaching certificate and a little experience in the field. I'd strongly recommend that you keep your day job unless you're ready to pretty much retire at whatever age.

BG,

Or maybe you'll save your money for ten years, retire early like Porker suggests, and then move south and work with Explorer on the Mexican space program ...

Dem Gnomes

Actually, the concept of not taking up an ESL position now, but building a nest-egg in the USA and LATER taking it up, does somewhat appeal to me. It would be a neato way to "see the world" and its chicas, especially if you weren't totally dependent on the income. Like try to break even on income but have a bit of retirement back in the States. I could see putting together an ESL resume over the next decade -- certif. of TESL, a few volunteer classes teaching adult immigrants or whatnot, maybe an article in an academic journal -- and then making the big switch some time around 60 years old.

The only question is, do the hiring institutions resist taking on a 60-year-old as a first-time employee?

Anyway, I'm realizing teaching ESL overseas is neither a "get rich and respected" nor a "get enough money to monger" profession, either.

BG,

See, I disagree with that.

You can't get rich working FOR an ESL company.

That doesn't mean you can't get rich BEING the ESL company.

If you have your own business, and you know where to put the mordida, you should be able to make decent money. But don't try to grow beyond yourself as instructor, and for God's sake don't work for anyone else directly -- split the profits or something.

Dem Gnomes

Yeah, fair point. Almost redundant ... you can't get rich working FOR x, but if you OWN x, then you CAN get rich.

Also, your point about not trying to "grow beyond yourself" is a good one, too. Lots of aspiring businessmen let their interest in the craft they're selling, overcome their interest in the income they could have been getting from that craft. It's probably nice, at some point, to back off on the business-obsession in order to be responsible to your calling and craft -- be it pottery or bookwrighting or teaching -- but I've just seen an excellent aphorism from the Greeks: acquire an independent income, and then practice vitue. Heh.

I'm not savvy enough (yet?) in business to take that kind of leap into the unknown. Especially since I don't speak much Spanish, I think setting up a storefront (as suggested earlier in this thread) would be a Sisyphean attempt.

I started working for a maquliadora in the late 1980's and one thing has led to another and until this day I know work for a Mexican-owned corporation here in South Orange County, a quick 2 hours to the border, with our processing operations located in the states of Michoacán, Colima, Nayarit, Sonora, and Chihuahua. International sales presence in most major cities throughout the world.

AB,

Are you in sales? And are y'all hiring in any white-collar position? (Someone on the board wants to know...even if they're not here right now.)

Dem Gnomes