This post has (almost) nothing to do with mongering, Tijuana, or anything else related to this board. I am only posting it here because I have found some of you to be the most intelligent, open minded people I am in communication with anywhere.

So feel free to skip this post entirely if you want, or if you prefer, go ahead and indulge yourself in my own shameless self indulgence.

I sometimes cannot help but wonder - is there any point to any of this bullshit at all? I have truly enjoyed many aspects of my life, but sometimes wonder what the hell the point is. I usually escape these thoughts with illicit sex, drinking, gambling, internet addiction (not that any of YOU would know anything about this!) etc., but every now and then hit a point where everything seems to unspeakably pointless,
nothing helps.

I have a great wife, a good job, and plenty of opportunity in my life - but sometimes everything seems like such a waste. Please do not respond with the stock answers, such as finding god adds meaning, finding a vocation that helps others makes life rewarding, etc., because these answers just don't work for me. They really don't. I have really tried to fit myself into the mold before, and it just deepens the pain when the promised satisfaction never comes.

If your thoughts upon reading this are, "what a loathsome human being. Why should I waste my time caring about him, or even responding to him?", my response to you would be: You are probably correct. If I were you, I would not care about me either.

Of course, these feelings will pass. I just need to wait it out, and I will be again be intoxicated with some other meaningless activity, and intensley enjoying every moment of it. I have considered the idea that some may consider meds appropriate for such mood swings, but I have no desire to take out the highs with the lows, which is precisely what I understand such medications to do. Of course, that is also
what my compulsive mindless activities do, but since this is MY self-indulgent rambling, I will forgive myself this minor inconsistency...

Basically, I am sometimes overwhelmed with the realization that I am essentially alone in the universe, and that regardless of the transient connection I may feel with other human beings (both those I am deeply involved with, and those who only momentarily cross my path) no one will ever truly understand. I desparately seek to avoid playing roles in my life, but cannot escape the feeling that I am truly not worth anyone caring about. Maybe that is because I essentially feel the same about everyone else I have ever met (at least on occasion). This is not to say that I don't care about others at all, only that my feelings toward often ride on the same rollercoaster as my feelings toward myself.

I have the evening to myself, and would typically use this solo time to either do something productive, or to lose myself in mindless fun. Tonight, I just can't seem to see the point in either extreme.

Anyway, thank you to those of you who have bothered to read all of this self-indulgent bullshit, and many more thank yous to those of you
who respond.

Kendricks

Here's my take:

To use your rollercoaster analogy, I see you getting on the rollercoaster expecting it to take you to that "special" destination, to the place you want to be, to where everyone says is success and happiness.

Well, I'm sure you've been on rollercoaster rides before and you know exactly where they take you.

Does that mean rollercoaster rides are meaningless? Some people might say so, but I don't think enjoying your life is meaningless.

You really don't need anything to be happy. That's a choice you make. Just because the world is fucked up doesn't mean you have to be fucked up.

My personal suggestion: stop looking for "something" and just enjoy the ride.

If you want, you can consider my strategies on life. I got these from a college sociology professor. He told me all I really needed to be happy in life was to focus on three simple things. They've worked well for me so far.

#1: Express
You've got that one down pact and to me it seems you find a lot of enjoyment in expressing your views. I don't know how you express yourself anywhere else, but you defintely let it out here.

#2: Create
I have no idea if you do this. For some people, this is art. For some people, it's their children. For others, it's their work. The idea is to create something that would otherwise never have existed in your absence. It doesn't even need to be completely original, add your own ideas or flair and it's yours.

#3: Learn
I think this is your greatest weakness. As open as I believe you consider yourself to be, I think the truth is that you have already accepted too many "facts" and "truths". You often write about "how things really are" and I find myself completely disagreeing with you. I think you have too many biases and preconceptions and it taints a lot of your experiences. Try to accept that you probably know very little, and your view of the world may change.

These are just my opinions, but I think you would be surprised to realize how similar we are in some aspects but different we are in others.

I like #2 a lot. I call it the "down stream motion," meaning that I only do things that I want and create things that bring me happiness. Living in an stagnant society where most people hate their jobs leads to a lot them trying to make you miserable as well. I like to read books about objectivism like "Looking out for number one" by Robert J. Ringer and "The Law of Success" by Napoleon Hill. Keeping my mind busy with work that I like to do and with meeting people that I like just keeps those negative thoughts away for about 75% of the time (25% of the time, I watch the news, listen to policians, and the mystics). We got too many folks with big egos and full of illusions about this world. The best advice I was told my soccer coach was to have an open mind.
If I fail at anything I just keep my perspective and remind myself that when I'm dead this won't matter anyways. However, to say that I got my shit together would be flat lie as I'm trying to deal with the same shit a lot of us face on our daily lives. I just live on day at a time and seal the doors to the past and don't stress too much about the future. Amen.
Thanks for reading my bullshit :-)

Kendricks,

Jesus Christ, there you go again, reading my mind.
I wonder is it just me, you or do lots of people find themselves in this quandry.

Trying to look thruogh the eyes of Buddhism has helped me somewhat but will not go there per your request.

Instead check out Sting's song sometime,"We Are Spirits In The Material World".

Lately infact all of these feeling s have intensified for me. Like a fish out of water.

"I got to get some shelter, or lord I'm gonna fade away", Mik Jagger...

Dazed & Confused & actually rarely Innocent

I've written 2 responses and deleted both of them. Each one I come up with sounds like a coach motivation speach. I like all 3 answers already posted alot.

"What is the point of all this"?

I believe alot of the masses ask this question, but only a few find the answer and move on to the next game level. the rest fall back and make up the stagnant society.

Stuff like this proves the average intelligence level here is far superior to almost any of the other boards related to sex travel. I have tried them all and this is the only one where adults can discuss what is on their minds without getting rocks thrown at them.

The imigration thread would have wound up with sexually explicit gestures made towards peoples mamas on the WSA.

Kendricks - I think you should really consider writing a book as you have quite a knack for making words flow. We dont care what it is about but if you get ready I am sure you will get plenty of topic suggestions from people here. I think as long as it includes Latin Women, Beer, and Lap dances it will be a best seller.

Your are currently going through what the majority have experience(or will) at one point or another in their lives.

Some call it a mid life crisis and buy a new porche and screw young women.

Others call it depression and take prozaic.

Personally I would call it being too wise for your own good and seeing life as it is. Of course one can argue, you should only look at the good things in have in your life and be grateful you are better off than another person. Hey, whatever works.

I do think that most people are "generally" good but this is imho only due to the fact that they don't want to end up in jail or the electric chair. Damn laws are like women, you can't live with them and you can't live without them. As screwed up as the world today is, imagine it without laws. One thing is for sure, the "generally" good people population would plummet faster than Enron stock did.

I woke up today after about ten hours of much needed sleep, and my first thought upon waking up was how this post would be received. Needless to say, I am impressed at the quality and thoughtfullness of the replies I received. To respond to each of you:

d'Artagnan: I usually do enjoy the ride, but sometimes I fall off. Your strategies are well thought out. I agree, I have #1 down pretty well. #2 is lacking in my life, mainly because some of my earlier efforts seemed pointless. My work now allows for some creativity, but only in working toward business goals, not creativity for its own sake. This is definitely an area where I am lacking.

Your commetns on #3 are interesting for me, as I have always condiered myself open minded, and my world view has changed dramatically over the years. Maybe I am guilty of serially thinking I have all the answers, until I am proven wrong?

Jaracho: Robert Ringer is actually one of my favorite authors. I have read several of his books, including the one you mentioned. When I was in high school I read "Winning Through Intimidation", and through all of my moves, still managed to keep my hands on the original copy I bought. At the time I read it I wasn't much interested in business, but I applied a lot of his advice to the goal of getting laid (which actually worked out well, believe it or not.)

Dazed and Not So Innocent, I would actually be interested in hearing your thoughts on Buddhism (and I am going to check out the lyrics to the song you referenced). A couple of my favorite books deal with this subject to some degree, including "The Tao of Jeet Koon Do" and "Zen Without Zen Masters". As you have pointed out before, it is not correct to lump Buddhism in with Western religions, and Buddhism is not about accepting dogma as truth, as it is about seeking enlightenment.

Bluelight: I agree with your conclusion, and would be interested in hearing some more of your thoughts.

Beavis: I'm glad you like my writing. I actually did write a book once... The protagonist was a sympathetic (in my view) drug addicted quasi urban terrorist, and the kindest words I received form any potential publisher or agent was "although your work obviously has merit, it is not for us". This relates back to d'Artagnan's comments on creating, I believe - Now that I have a aquired a few more years of experience and (hopefully) wisdom, maybe I should stop spending so much time on pointless endeavors, and try my hand on writing something that a few other people could actually relate to.... Latin women, beer and lapdances are some great ideas, and maybe I could throw in some existential angst as a bonus.

Anyway, it's nice to know that you guys can actually relate to and appreciate my feelings on this topic. Maybe I'm not as alone in the universe as I thought.

I am not a good writer. I generally have a hard time expressing what I am thinking. None the less I have always wanted to write a guide book to Mexico with a heavy emphasis on bars, nightlife, whores, etc. Maybe Some of us with writers aspirations could team up and do some research on the topic. LOL

But to answer your question as to the reason for our existence. I have a very shallow opinion. I think I am here to enjoy life to the fullest extent possible. Abraham Lincoln once said "I believe people are just about as happy as they want to be" Well dammit I want to be happy. And I try to always remember that. I try to never let the bastards wear me down.

I love to argue politics. I have some pretty extreme positions. And I can be very opinionated. But in the end I think none of that is really important.

I work because I have to and I have not found a better way yet to support all my bad habits. And I am pretty good at what I do. I have had a succsesful career. But I don't think that in the end that is very important either.

I have a good wife and a daughter. We have a good relationship. And I think that is probably the most important component of my life. So I spend my life trying to keep that relationship good, while participating in the ativities that make me happy. Sometimes it is hard to balance my illicit activities with what is really important, but I try to do it anyway.

I don't profess to know what our existence is all about. So this is not based on the hope of a heavanley reward, but I have a motto I go by: "Do no harm". When I die, all I want is for em to say. He did no harm. I don't need greatness etc. If I am happy and did no harm, I made it through life in fine style.

My grandfather used to say when you are 90 and at deaths door, the only thing you will have left are memories. So you need to make them good ones. Of course he died of Alzheimers and did not even have his memories. But I liked his way of thinking. So call my life plan shallow and simple if you will, but it works for me. I hope to die with a smile on my face and nothing more.

There’s lots of coherent, compassionate, wise thought here about living the life worth living. But I don’t think anyone here has really tackled Kendricks’ original point which is the sense that life, the universe, and everything are unspeakably pointless – a continuous onslaught of bullshit and futility. Not to belabor the point, but the common reactions to what Kendricks is describing don’t cut to the chase. They involve suggestions about how to escape or change that feeling and that sense. They don’t legitimize Kendricks’ actual experience in any way. The desire in each case is to make the unpleasantness go away.

The suggestions/strategies that you find on this thread and most other places can be generally placed into one of 3 ordinary categories: (1) Some people suggest avoiding the feeling-sense of pointlessness, in favor of more “enjoyable” aspects of life. This is at its root a fear-based strategy, involving a retreat from the seemingly unpleasant and unbearable face-to-face meeting with your “demon.” Don’t worry about it, don’t think about it, stop looking for “something” and just enjoy the ride. Such a strategy certainly has its place, and can, paradoxically, connect you with much that is meaningful in life. But it doesn’t, IMHO, address the underlying inevitable fear and cowardice directly and it doesn’t explore the experience of emptiness in a way that promotes “deeper meaning.”

(2) Some people suggest attacking the feeling-sense, in favor of more positive, “adaptive” thoughts. This is at its root an anger-based strategy that involves running a steamroller over unpleasant thoughts and feelings. The meeting with the “demon” is not face-to-face, but rather mano-a-mano, an attempt to kill that which is unkillable, and not understood. Change your ways, change your attitude, change your beliefs, change your cognitive schema, improve your values, and you can supposedly replace the demon. Such a strategy certainly has its place, and can, paradoxically, change the meaning of your life. But it doesn’t, IMHO, address the underlying inevitable rage and violence that accompanies the futile emptiness, and so the demon will continue to block your path to deeper meaning and laugh at you, in all your weak and worthless glory.

(3) Some people (though not here, apparently) suggest simply acquiescing to the feeling-sense, letting the forces that rule a senseless, futile world rule one’s life. The idea is to completely modify oneself to fit the environment, amassing external goodies such as money, prestige, chicas, etc., etc. in an attempt to achieve authenticity. Within this scheme, the “demon” is accepted and even glorified; he rules the house and you follow his rules at whatever cost. And with this strategy, it is the outside world that decides your meaning and worth and fate. Such a strategy certainly has its place, and, paradoxically, can buy you all sorts of opportunities that will allow you connect with authenticity and deeper meaning. But in the end it is, under usual circumstances, a trap because all the external trappings can help minimize the pain of emptiness only so long. In trying to medicate away the pain of emptiness and futility, the strategy creates numbness and depression and more pain. And perhaps most relevant to this discussion is that it creates a false sense of life’s meaning.

Anyway, I think that there is a “fourth approach” that legitimizes and explores what Kendricks describes without simply avoiding, attacking, or acquiescing. Most of the “spiritual” and “religious” traditions have attempted to integrate this fourth approach into their practices, though the approach itself doesn’t require spirituality or religion (thank God…). As far as I can tell, most religious practitioners miss the point entirely, focusing on “God” and “Morality” and “The one right way” at the expense of nurturing powerful tools for living one’s life and finding meaning.

I should add that I’m in agreement with most of what has been posted here. I personally find the wisdom traditions (Buddhism, Yoga and others) to be remarkably helpful to me in living a contented life and in exploring the meaning of things. I’m saying this as someone who isn’t religious, doesn’t trust most organized religions, and who basically doesn’t believe in God. But many of the preliminary practices (e.g. meditation, yoga asanas, pranayama, etc) will put what Kendricks describes in a new light. Basically, by engaging in certain practices, I’m repeating an experiment that has been conducted by different individuals over thousands of years. The results I’ve gotten, over a period of 8 years, have changed my views considerably, as predicted.

Sooo… I've certainly hit points where everything seemed unspeakably pointless, with self-destructive and even suicidal force. Today, I haven't the foggiest idea what the point is. I mean, I could blather to you what I've heard other people say, and some of it is profound. And I've certainly done my share of reading and listening on this front. But when all is said and done, I still don't "get it" - the meaning of my life, that is, let alone yours.

But for me, this pervasive sense of “not knowing” provides a source of strength. Does this make ANY sense?

Kendricks and Dogster:

A. Yes it makes sense. Glad you said it (both of ya) because I couldn't have kept it under about a sixty-volume dissertation.

B. It's too bad we have these sensations and ideas sometimes. They aren't "just mental emanations" but sometimes I profit from dealing with them that way anyway, from simply applying myself to them as though they were strictly physiological. I go out for a hike, or a long jog, or something else PHYSICAL. I keep up with an exercise routine, improve my nutrition, gather more oxygen for my brain, etc. That is another (albeit admittedly rather superficial) solution nobody's mentioned yet. What ever happened to that thread about weight loss? Hmmm ...

C. My personal "black dog days" (Cf. Winston Churchill) generally concern the lack of a legitimate partner in my life. I don't get all wrapped up in unhappiness about the "futility" of ALL of life like Kendricks -- maybe it's ironic that I don't because right now I lack a legitimate JOB and a legitimate FEMALE PARTNER. The lack of a partner, no matter how much or how little I attempt to allow mongering to resolve my sexual issues, is for me a question of my "worth" as a human. Paying for it doesn't work for me. I NEEEEEDD for those little lithe nineteen-year-old-looking skinny young blonde mall bimbos to respond positively to me ... and of course, they don't. And I don't know how to fix that.

At least I've identified the problem. :-P

Well, anyway, the point is, that the FEELING that I get from that dissatisfaction, is identical to what Kendricks describes as his own dissatisfaction / discomfort / sense of futility. He took the words right out of my mouth, but he changed the venue before saying them for himself.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. I'm glad he felt he could share, and no, I don't have any solutions. Wouldn't claim to.

Attn: book_guy, drop me a line.

Friendly14unsd@yahoo.com.

I think in the midst of all our "adventures" it's
refreshing to see some guys drop their macho egos
and reveal that we are not as bullet proof and bad as we sometimes hold ourselves out to be.

I hope this thread doesn't die out too soon.

Kendricks, there are some nice Thai Buddhist monks here in San Diego. I try to spend some time with them when I can. It's sort of the yin yang of my life. When I'm not with the monks I'm with the chicas.

If your interested I'll post phone numbers and address for the temples in Valley Center and Escondido. I hope you like Thai food because they will not let you leave until you're stuffed.

Very nice people. Like a slice of Thailand here in San Diego. Sometimes you need a light house to navigate...

Hang in there, Kendricks.

1) I would second Dogster's tip regarding Eastern disciplines - they don't tell you what life "means" but can help you find out for yourself. I went through a spiritual crisis many years ago, convinced of Western religions' worthlessness - vehement in my Atheism but still unsatisfied with it. I'm still vehemently Atheist. But studying Buddhism has made my God-less world seem anything but "pointless".

2) Being a veteran of over a decade of clinical depression myself, I strongly recommend that you don't dismiss this as a possibility. My experience is that when you find yourself wondering if everything is just pointless, something is wrong, and it's not a matter of life's purpose or the lack thereof. This is the first thought (pointlessness) that rushes in when the opportunity arises (depression). Lots of people spend their lives not knowing what "the point" is, but seem to get-by anyway.

What I would do is try to determine if you're suffering from depression or a bona fide existential angst. If it's the former, see a good shrink (they do exist). If it's the latter, look into Buddhism.

I think the bottom line is that it's clear that something is missing - make it your task to find what it is. No one can tell you what it is but you, but others can help. If you ignore it, it will keep haunting you. Keep your eyes on the prize, amigo.

Buena Suerte,

MrBill

B_G: Winston Churchill is the best!!!

Kendricks a Buddhist? Don't hold yer breath...

DazeInn: Just how much of Bangkok culture is available here in SD? (I mean this in all the on-topic ways!!). And in all seriousness, do any of the monks know about your hobby?

Dazed: That is very interesting. Any info you care to share would be appreciated. I love Thai food, btw.

Mr. Bill: I'm usually not down that low, and I'm usually pretty happy to be alive. It's just an occasional leap into the abyss, that I usually bounce back from pretty quickly. Is your depression in the past, or is it something you are still dealing with?

Dogster: I read recently that a lot of Busshist monks in Bangkok steal away at night to nail some bargirls. Makes sense to me - what could be better than pussy and enlightenment?

That should have been Buddhist monks, actually...

Kendricks, my problem is ongoing. I bring it up because I know that how you feel directly influences what you think (e.g. pointlessness). I would just ask myself, "Why am I having these thoughts?". Am I in a bad mood and this is leading me to think this way? It's something that most people don't realize can happen - and it happens all the time. It's a chicken and egg thing. Know what I mean? Examine the context of your quandry - what led to this frame of thought? Something preceeds your "occaisional leap into the abyss". Try to find out what that is.

My best advice is to ask yourself, "Why am I thinking those thoughts?" If you can answer that, you're 1/2 way there, IMO.

MrBill

Dogster

You are correct the community of Thai monks in Thailand, is, and has been for a long time, steeped in corruption and controversy as you describe. In fact the leader of this community Prah Ajan Yantra left Thailand to seek political asylum here.

He spoke out against the eclesiastical hierarcy in Thailand and had several attempts on his life as well as a huge slander campaign against him.

My favorite group here is at the Sunntaran Monastery. 9560 West Lilac Road, Escondido, Ca.
92026

Phone: 760-723-7232 or 760-723-7232. Go Sunday about 11:00. There is a small ceremony were everyone gets to give each of the monks a little rice. Then at noon there is a huge free feast.

It's mostly a family atmosphere but there is also
a smaterring of single beautiful Thai girls floating around. Woops there I go.

In fact I have met a couple guys who have met nice girls there developed relationships and one guy even got married.

Checkout the address on mapquest or call for directions. Sam Chat speaks pretty good english and was a medical doctor before entering the monastery.

My wife tells me they all come from wealthy upper class families. Just a slightly different cut of the population the majority of the men that become monks because thet can't do other things.

There another nice group on 11th ave in Escondido.
I don't have the number handy but you can check 411. You just missed their annual Songkron Thai New Year Festival in Kit Carson park in Escondido.
It's a blast and like being in Thailand for the day.

Oh and LOTS of gorgeous Thai girls around...

Dogster,

And the hobby is never discussed but there are a couple of monks that I feel look right through me..

I would like to be a Pussist monk, and eat out Thai "food" all the time.

A question for you all -- Did John Wayne Bobbitt wake up feeling pointless?

MrBill:
There are "Cognitive" psychotherapies that supposedly work in the opposite direction to what you described. They postulate that thoughts precede emotions, and that if you can modify "maladaptive" thoughts, then you can improve your mood, emotions, feelings, etc. If you read my long post up above, you know that I view this approach as "helpful" in some ways, and somewhat limited. It is probably more realistic to view this as chicken/egg or as a cycle, as you imply.

Yours whoring. Dogster

Kendricks,

I don't have any real answers but I certainly understand the problem. Every thinking person feels this way sometimes, or perhaps most of the time. It's probably a good thing. It causes us to stop and take a good look at ourselves and try to think about what's really important to us and where our lives are taking us.

Several years ago, I think it may have been in Psychology Today, there was an article about the results of a survey where people were asked to make a list of the ten most important things in their lives and another list of the ten least important things. Afterwards, the participants were asked to go back to their lists and note how much time, on average, they devoted to each of the items on their list. There was an almost exact reverse correlation - most people spend the bulk of their lives occupied (and preoccupied) with trivial routine and devote relatively little time to the things they say are really important and meaningful to their lives.

Trying to discover or create some sort of meaning and purpose in life, or at least trying to provide some sort of insight into whether life has any real meaning, has been the central issue of every religion and philosophy since the beginning of time. In my opinion, none of them have come up with satisfactory answers.

The reason, I believe, is that there is no one answer that is valid and relevant for everyone. Nobody can ever really walk in another person's shoes. By our very nature, we view the world through the filters of our own perceptions, beliefs, experiences, personalities, etc. Likewise, we're viewed by others through their sets of filters. So, in a very real sense, we are alone in the world with no real possibility of ever being fully understood or of fully understanding others.

In the beginning of this thread, Kendricks said that he tries to avoid playing roles in his life, but how is that possible? I agree with Shakespeare, that you have to view "the world but as the world ... a stage, where every man must play a part...." Willingly or unwillingly, we are all players on the stage of life. Unfortunately my life has generally been a sort of tragicomedy played out in the theater of the absurd. Another playwright, Samuel Beckett, put it " life is like playing the violin in public and learning the instrument as one goes on".

So, in my view, you can't avoid playing roles in life - that's all there is! What makes it so absurd is that there's no script, no plot, no defined characters, no moral to the story, no real beginning or end - nothing but an endless, frequently monotonous, series of disconnected, incomprehensible images and impressions, sights and sounds, feelings and thoughts - again, all of which are processed through our own unique sets of filters.

If this validly describes the human condition (it does for me, but I can't experience your reality), then where does that leave us? Are we doomed to a life without meaning or purpose? I don't think so. What it means to me is that we are compelled to create or discover our own meaning in our lives, one that is valid and relevant to us.

The first step in this is developing self-awareness and honesty with yourself. Simply asking these questions and realizing that something is missing, and that missing "something" is making you very uncomfortable, means that you are also opening a door to a higher level of self-discovery and self-awareness.

In reality, that's where your quest must lie. You can never discover meaning "out there" - it doesn't exist or, if it does, it isn't knowable. So, whatever meaning or purpose exists in our lives is subjective and is knowable only to us, and discoverable only by us.

I agree that the Eastern wisdom traditions can help somewhat. I also think that a little reading in existential philosophy and humanistic and cognitive psychology wouldn't hurt. You aren't going to find real answers here, but maybe it will stimulate your own thought process.

I find the practice of meditation very helpful - simply because it is a discipline that forces me to slow down, let go of my defenses, and allow my subconscious, repressed thoughts and fears to surface. A word of caution, however - meditation can be quite dangerous if you are in real pain or crisis. Also, for many people it is difficult to learn without a teacher. The danger in putting yourself in the hands of a teacher when you are vulnerable is that you are overly impressionable and there's a real temptation to turn to the teacher for "answers" - he doesn't have them!

MrBill's remarks about distinguishing between existential angst (anxiety) and clinical depression bear consideration. Clinical depression is treatable, at least for some people. For me the response is the same - I don't trust therapy or medications, and don't think they have any answers for me.

The French existential philosopher Jean Paul Sartre spoke of the absurdity of life as being a result of our unfulfillable desire for complete fulfillment - saying that we are forced to ask ultimate questions by the very nature of our lives and by our yearning for orientation and purpose in our lives, yet are unable to find decisive answers. Therefore, we are forced to construct meaning through courageous choices in the face of this absurd situation, further saying that this kind of choice cannot be understood as achieving moral certainty; rather it is moral heroism within an morally vague and chaotic world.

I don't have a coherent, organized philosophy of life in response to all of this. Even if I did, I don't really think it would be very helpful to try to give you my answers, because you can't experience my reality anymore than I can experience yours. However, here are a few random thoughts:

1. I too see myself as essentially alone in the universe. There is no knowable truth or meaning in my life other than what I can create or discover for myself.

2. Whatever I know of others and of external reality can never be more than my own subjective evaluation or impression. My ability to know or understand myself, others, and external reality is flawed and imperfect.

3. I have full responsibility for my own actions, thoughts and feelings including any negative consequences, reactions, or effects my actions may have on others. I define myself to others by my actions, not by my intentions, my thoughts, or my feelings.

4. I live in society and to some extent must live within the rules of society - both because I fear rejection and because I'm responsible for the consequences my actions may have on others.

5. Personal relationships are important to me. For me, creating meaning in my life is largely achieved through creating relationships. Nevertheless, I can never really control these relationships or what other people think or feel. So, I really can't base my happiness or sense of self on the reactions or opinions of others.

6. I make mistakes, and sometimes conscious decisions, that have negative consequences on others. I'm responsible for the results of such actions, whether intentional or unintentional, and for whatever negative effects they may have on my own life.

7. My emotions and feelings, and those of others, are frequently irrational, volatile and changeable. I try to be patient with myself and with others in dealing with negative emotions.

8. Life isn't "fair" and we have no reason to expect it to treat us fairly. Resentment and casting blame on others are always unproductive. Guilt is usually, but not always, unproductive as well. There's nothing I can do to change the past. However, I am responsible for how I deal with consequences of my actions, and with any negative thoughts, feelings and reactions I may have as a result of my own past actions or those of others, and for trying to make amends for any harm I've caused others.

9.I am a thinking person. Intellectual stimulation is an important part of my life. I have an appreciation of literature and the arts that I try to nurture because they make me feel more human, more alive, and more connected with myself, with others and with society in general. I also think of myself as a creative person and try to find outlets for my creativity, but this is actually one of the weak spots in my life and I'm frequently disappointed in how I deal with this need.

10. I am a physical being with physical needs and pleasures, and I deserve the right, and have the responsibility, to feel good physically. This means that I try, with mixed success, to live a healthy life, exercise, maintain a high energy level, deal with minor aches, pains and maladies without letting them control me, eat foods I enjoy, use alcohol without abusing it, and lead a healthy, active sex life.

11. I try to maintain positive relationships with other people, no matter whether they are friends and family or merely casual acquaintances. I can try to claim that what others think of me does not matter, but in fact I define myself with the help of others. Other people are necessary for self-evaluation. Without others, we have no inherent meaning. Even rejecting other people is an act of self-definition. Try as we might, we use others as measures with which to compare our own lives.

12. I don't think of myself as being particularly optimistic or pessimistic about life - I try to take myself and my surroundings as I find them and to avoid measuring myself by my unrealistic expectations and desires, or projecting these expectations and desires on others.

13. Life is attendant upon a certain measure of disappointment, loss, and, at times, real pain and suffering. I can't avoid or minimize the reality of pain and suffering in my own life or in the lives of others. When I look realistically at the pain I've experienced (and at times it's been very real and very painful) in comparison to what others have survived, I begin to realize how trivial most of my problems have been and how fortunate I've been.

So, there it is. As I said, I don't have the answers, but maybe it isn't the answers that matter. Maybe it's enough just to be asking the questions. I'll leave you with one final thought from a book by Viktor Frankl called "Man's Search for Meaning" which relates his experiences as a survivor of a Nazi concentration camp.

"Whenever one is confronted with an inescapable, unavoidable situation, whenever one has to face a fate that cannot be changed, e.g., an incurable disease, such as an inoperable cancer, just then is one given a last chance to actualize the highest value, to fulfill the deepest meaning - the meaning of suffering. For what matters above all is the attitude we take toward suffering, the attitude in which we take our suffering upon ourselves.

"We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked throughout the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken away from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.

"We needed to stop asking ourselves about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life-daily and hourly. . . . Therefore, it was necessary for us to face up to the full amount of suffering, trying to keep moments of weakness and furtive tears to a minimum. But there was no need to be ashamed of tears, for tears bore witness that a man had the greatest of courage, the courage to suffer."

Pura Vida,
TG

Dogster,

You are a real fuckin' pisser...LOL

This is a great thread. I am always wondering about the human condition. TampaGringo said many things that agree with my outlook on life. My general life motto is "Do no harm and help when I can". I also try to remember "No one shot at me today, what do I have to complain about."

I don't have the answers, but I do try to keep a couple of things in mind.
We are animals and have animal desires. But we are social animals with awareness of reprecussions and the animal desires must be channeled in a fashion that fits in with a social order.
Throughout history people recognized as great thinkers have all had an awareness of something transending the apparent physical world. So I remember that my day to day issues short-lived and insignificant in the bigger picture.
It is often reported that on their deathbed, many "successful" people mention that what they remember/will miss are the personal relationships and life experiences, not the physical things they have possessed. So I try to make my personal relationships as positive as possible and not sweat the new car.
To paraphrase the Buddists, "Life is tension". These challanges are what allow us to appreciate the moments of quiet contentment. A full belly, a warm bed and the love of another seem to be universally appreciated.
Random thoughts with no supporting documentation.

Right on, Tampagringo, Headinsouth.

Viktor Frankl - another one of the great minds of the previous century. Lived in San Diego ever so briefly, as I recall. We should put a copy of his famous book in POWERSLAVE's mailbox, then run like hell.

When y'all get tired of the Buddhism rift, we can move on to tantric sex. That way we can be on topic, on the off-topic, and off the off-topic, all at the same time. At that point we'll have esoteric philosophy coming out the yinyang.

Yours in enlightened whoring
Dogster

Dogster,

Have you considered doing standup ( I'm sure you've done all the other positions HAHA). Not bad spontaneous material...

Tampagringo, wow, that was a hell of a post. I'm not sure where to even begin to respond - that was all very solid and very interesting. I did read Frankl's book a while back, btw. Quite a saga...

DazedInn:
Seriously, yeah, I considered doing standup about 10 years ago, just for the fun of it. Whenever I go to the Comedy Club or whatever, my response is always, "That sucked. I could do it better." But trying to make bucks off yuks just ain't me.

A fundamental spiritual truth is as follows: "If you move to L.A. and try to be an entertainer, then your life will be a living hell." Kissing people's asses and being around entertainment industry whacks --I'd have to shoot myself. So for now, I'll try to lead a normal life. Rather than being a standup, I'll just stick to being a simple, humble pornstar. The consequences in that business aren't nearly as dire when you get tongue-thaied. And while I'm at it, I'll continue writing my book on mongering, "Man's Search for Moaning."

Some of my friends HATE my sense of humor, while others have fun with it. If they can't take a joke, fuck 'em. But enough about me...

The real "answer" to life, the universe and everything is "42"

Yours in whoring.
Dogster el nefario

Dogster,

"Some of my friends HATE my sense of humor, while others have fun with it. If they can't take a joke, fuck 'em".

I experience the same thing. All thought I do admit I am allmost constantly busting balls and goofing around. But like you say "fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

I've allways been facinated with the longevity and quality of life many comedians have demonstrated, despite some of their wild life styles.

There are exceptions of course Cris Farley, John Beluchi. The ones who seem to live a some what moderate life at least as thet got older seem to really hang in there.

I guess it won't belong for me, arggg,thud... LOL

Don't ever lose your sense of humor. This board is great in may ways but where humor is concerned
we can all ways use more... Seriously, LOL

Kendricks - You posed a serious question that I thought deserved a serious answer. I actually wrote my response more to clarify my own thoughts than anything else.

I really wish I had some sort of workable philosophy of life that I could tell you helps me with this sort of existential angst, but I don't. I feel as you do much of the time, but I refuse to wallow in these feelings, because I really don't think it gets me anywhere.

When I feel particularly dissatisfied with my life, I usually find it is because I'm loosing perspective and taking myself too seriously. Learning to detach myself from emotions of the moment and keeping a sense of humor certainly helps, when I'm able to do it.

Tampagringo,

Well said but where you say,"I refuse to wallow in these feelings, because I really don't think it gets me anywhere".

You are talking about controling your mind, si?
If you can that's great. The challange is to be able to do it on demand and not be swept away by emotion or illusion.

Buddhism says," The mind can be the best friend or the worst enemy. One should try to control the mind knowing it that is easier to control the raging wind"...

Dazed, Confused and trying to be Innocent... <;)

If you don't control your mind, who does - little green men from Mars? Sorry, I couldn't resist asking that.

Seriously, though, I think it's very important to learn how to stop constantly playing and replaying negative tapes in your mind. This was once a problem for me, and now it isn't. I can't really tell you what I did to stop indulging in this sort of thinking. One day I just realized how damaging and unproductive it was and stopped doing it!

Now, when I find myself wallowing in self-pity or dwelling on my negative thoughts and emotions, I just stop. For me, it isn't difficult once I realize I'm doing it. I don't have any trick or technique to give you. I just refuse to think about things in this sort of negative, unhelpful way.

I don't know if this makes any sense or not. I don't repress or deny my negative thoughts and feelings, I just change the way I let them affect me. They don't necessarily go away, but I don't let them consume me. Does this help?

Just a little suggestion from Neuro Linguistic Programming that works wonders for me. Take it literally.

When you're feeling down, look up.

Regards,
RickFeliz

Kendricks et at:

If you could be given the guarantee to become immortal what would you decide?
Maybe is my youth, but the possibilities of having that much time (eternity) excite me. I read reports from Brazil, Colombia, and other from other places I would probably never visit in this short life. I want a piece of everyone of your experiences, become an expert in every field, and fuck everyone women in the world :-)
Maybe, there will be enough time left to explore try to understand if life has any meaning at all. Would I then fear poverty, critism, poverty, losing a love one, or worse yet-discovering that life has no meaning?
Just how off-topic would we get we our concepts?

Jarocho

Emotional proactivity rather than reactivity. That's been my mantra recently. Folks are describing it ... it's a sticky concept, almost self-contradictory. But don't just meditate on it, PRACTICE it. (The French call practice "repetition", by the way.)

I think you guys need to take up golf.

Tampagringo - if you don't control your mind, it just runs out of control, on whatever programming it happened to pick up.

Jaracho - I would absolutely decide to become immortal. My life is going by so fast, I feel like I am speeding toward my death.

Baboseki - I fucking HATE golf! 8-D

Kendricks

Sorry, it's a mind-body thing, like Zen and archery...

How about Aikido?

Jaracho - Re immortality. A lighthearted suggestion to all. The movie Groundhog Day. Bill Murrey essentially had an infinite amount of time and found meaning only when he turned his attention to the needs of those around him.

Golf???!!!!

I'm swingin' and gettin' into enuff holes already. Better "one-in-a-hole" than "a-hole-in-one", that's what a say.

Not trying to be an a-hole.

Yours in whoring and miniature golf. Dogster

Jaracho, once upon a time I also despaired at the shortness of my life and time in which I was born. I still feel that way at times, especially when I read some of the same reports you mention or look at some of the discoveries that are being made in areas that interest me.

At the same time, I have moments where I begin to understand the language about death or, at least, the end of our consciousness. The notion of "rest" or being in "peace" seems not to be so much an escape from physical efforts but one of finally ending the incessant chit chat crap that goes on within one's own head.

There is currently a commercial on TV where the music is words from the Beatles tune "When I'm 64". At the time I first heard that song in the late 60s the idea of someday being 64 was inconprehensible. I don't know what 64 year olds were like back then but in my mind they were simply .....old and that meant not even being part of the normal life. Maybe nothing has changed or perhaps modern medicine and life styles have made 64 a time to still kick butt.

One thing I am convinced of is that in our prosperous reality each person makes their own happiness or tragedy. Unless 9/11 is the start of a new way of life, which it may be, we don't have to worry much about basic necessities or suffer the hardships that much of the world still encounters. Our complaints about "the meaning of life" probably seem trivial to many. Unfortunately, that doesn't make it any easier for those who do worry.

In nothing else, this thread shows that not all mongers are sleezy low lifes with just one thought on their sex crazed mind. Some of them actually have some fairly deep thoughts. It's too bad we can't get credit for this with the mainstream culture.

THANK GOD FOR TJ

San Diego County Reins In Exotic Dancers
New Club Near El Cajon Inspires Crackdown


San Diego -- The San Diego County Board of Supervisors voted unanimously Wednesday to tighten regulations on adult entertainment businesses, despite objection from dancers who said the changes were overly restrictive.

The board tentatively approved ordinances banning total nudity and direct tipping of dancers, and requiring that performers dance on a stage and be separated from customers by 6 feet. All the regulations will cover unincorporated county areas.

Dancers also will be prohibited from touching customers, and adult entertainment businesses will be restricted to areas zoned for industrial use.


A second vote on the ordinances is required before they can become law. The "second reading" is set for June 19.

Supervisor Dianne Jacob called the action the "toughest, most restrictive ordinance and regulations we can have that have been court tested."

The board's action was prompted by a proposed Dream Girls club on North Magnolia Avenue in an unincorporated area of El Cajon. Parents have protested because the site is across the street from a dance studio and an arcade.

The club is waiting on a liquor license, but apparently plans to open even if that is denied.

Dream Girls would be required to comply with the new regulations governing dancers. Under the new zoning requirements, it would have to relocate within three years, according to Jacob's office.

The board heard from about a dozen representatives of the adult entertainment industry, including several dancers and a club owner who said the regulations were overly strict.

One stripper said she uses her tips to help fund her education. She said she is seeking a master's degree in English from San Diego State University.

Another said disallowing direct contact with customers would seriously cut into her income.

The dancers who testified would not be affected by the new rules because they work in the city of San Diego, which has its own regulations.

On the other side, representatives of "Concerned Citizens for Community Values" and others spoke in favor of the restrictions.

They said the clubs promote crime and make "objects" of women.

I think it's terrible that someone would treat women like objects.

With that said I have to hit TJ now and fuck a whore in the ass ungreased.

I am very suprised that strip bars in San Diego still exsist.

Why would any loser go to one when they can go to TJ and get more for less ?

My friend went to one here in San Diego and spent nearly 200 fucks in just a few hours and only got a few lapdances fully clothed
When he got back and told me that I said he was the biggest loser i have ever met

Viva La TJ

MilkVato

sometimes too i think i'm the biggest loser in life, and then i think of milkman. thank you God, now i know the milman's purpose on this earth.

200 fucks in just a few hours is pretty impressive, though.

You're right Milkman... these dudes are pretty stupid.

I remember in the late-80's, early 90's; you could get full grind bikini laps for $1 in So. Illinois... and you could get full grind(mucho hanky-panky) nude laps in El Paso for $5 - then it was up to $20 a couple years ago(and no hanky panky).

... it just kept getting worse all thru the late 90's... I quit going years ago... TOTALLY lame.

Kendricks,

200 fucks in two hours could lead to instant and eternal nirvana. How about Siddhartha?

Good point, my friend. I finished reading Siddhartha, and was blown away. What a masterpiece.