Confusion
I'm so confused.....
Lemme see, have I got this straight?

Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in
Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq -
bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim
Albanian terrorists -good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator -
bad...

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad..

Clinton says mass graves in Serbia - good...
Entire world says WMD in Iraq - bad...

No mass graves! found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Recession under Bush - bad...

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...

World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton -
good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam in custody - bad...

So, all you lefties, can you enlighten me on the major differences between these two leaders?

How about just a different take on the two most important ones...

Clinton manages a policy of containment while adapting to the evolving threat of terrorism
Bush creates a situation accelerating the growth of stateless terrorism in al Qaeda and other terrorist groups

Clinton gets some oral action in the Oval Office
Bush TODAY fuzzies up "sex tourism" in his pressuring of Castro on Cuba

I could go on, but I've no interest in sending this debate off into a bunch of other different directions. Related discussion is covered in War or Peace, Fahrenheit, & numerous other threads.

I have two primary concerns.

A. United States Security (particularly my own)
I have yet to see a conservative on here refute or even recognize the difference between stateless terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism. The threat after 9/11 was al Qaeda. After our "successful" mission in Iraq, the threat is still...al Qaeda. An unstable Iraq, a likely possibility despite our 90% committment of troops and money, will further lead to the growth and threat of...al Qaeda. We all agree the world became more dangerous after 9/11. Many of us left of right believe the world is MORE dangerous because of the Bush Administration.

B. Our Hobby
The way Bush is trying to establish a relationship between human trafficking and sex tourism sounds painfully like the way they've tried to establish a relationship between Saddam and al Qaeda. ("We said there's a relationship because there is a relationship") . There is so much out there outlining a threat to our hobby posed by Ashcroft, Bush, and the bible-thumping right that it just completely boggles my mind that anyone on this site would not recognize it. I'm tired of trying to explain this though. I'll just say that if you have your way, my prediction is that the Bush Administration will be emboldened enough to do some serious damage to our hobby, and if that comes about, it's going to be too late to regret your vote and inconsequential for me to say, "I told you so."

BTW, the oversimplification("dumbing down") of complex issues and situations as illustrated by your points is the kind of take that makes me believe the Bush Administration is so dangerous to us. The Bushies can't tell the difference between a) human-trafficking and b) prostitution as a consensual business transaction, it's all criminal to them. Well...at least we'll have a missile defense shield to protect us against suitcase bombs and poisoned water supplies if the right wins.

I dont agree that the world is a more dangerous place after 9/11. Clearly the world was just as dangerous, perhaps more so BEFORE 9/11 or 9/11 wouldnt have occured. If the same threat existed now then we would have had more 9/11s because I dont for a minute believe the terrorists have decided to give us a break.

I also dont accept that the world is more dangerous because of the Bush administration. Deeg makes good points about these clearly partisan points of view the lefties on the board tout as factual.

On point B, obviously the Bush/Ashcoft package is why I cant vote for Bush. I am praying to all things Pornographic that they lose this election. I believe their arrogance will be their achilles heel--they wont waiver from some of these silly positions and will end up losing as a result.

Deeg,

Wherever, you have Clinton Good, you need to write Clinton Bad.

Just picking one example:

Clinton commits felonies while in office - BAD!
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad..

It reads much better this way, and it makes the same point without the sarcasm. The point is that Clinton did a lot of stupid things in office and so has Bush. Right?

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim
Albanian terrorists -good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator -
bad...


Clinton does this with the blessing & help of the rest of the world, Good

Bush gives the middle finger to the world, and makes more enemies for us , Bad

Clinton sucks too though DG.

But I respect him for getting head from an intern

Dart,

I can't believe Bush said that yesterday. I was in another room putting a table together when I heard it on the TV then ran to the other room to see the follow up. I just can't believe he said it. Even that should affect Deeg.

Bush said what yesterday? Did I miss something?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=5&u=/nm/20040716/pl_nm/campaign_bush_dc

Larry; One thing to remember the U.N. and France are fucking worthless! Just about every other post you say we need them.

In the 90's there was a little war going on in Eastern Europe. The European powers could not take care of it. I know first hand as I froze my ass off living in a tent in the Balkans Aug94-Mar95 as a UN peackeeper.

If we just wait until the UN grows some balls we will all have to start bowing towards Meca.

You have better belive this quote from Dennis Miller "It doesn't matter whether you are for the war or against the war, you're an infidel and the terrorists want to kill you too".

I worked for uncle Sam and spent some time in North Africa. I survived my incounter with the Islamic Brotherhood. Will You?

I dont really remember saying we need them every other post. Its just that it does wonders for your credibility and we wouldnt have to take all the blame If we had a world wide concensus.

Dennis miller is a clown.

The problem is I think that I have everything figured out. And I laugh when we have all these Idiots dividing us, the Rush Limbaughs , Michael Moores of the world ,the democratic and republican party ,the elected officials that dont really represent me and you , I dont have enough money to grease these guys. the whole thing becomes a sport ,democrats vs. republicans ,conservatives vs. liberals. The U.S. vs. the world. Jews vs. muslims ,christians vs. hindus .Who will win ? who knows? I dont give a shit, as long as I am not inconvenienced ,I tried to care but for what? Do we really think that it matters if bush or kerry are president neither of them has said that he would do what is necessary to stop terrorism and the hatred of americans. They are the same thing puppets.

At 28 I have it all figured out and I think the solutions are simple in theory, not sure about practicality.

1. Stop supporting Israel. This is the big one, I really have a hard time understanding this , The American people have been convinced that a religious group has claim to a piece of land promised to them by an invisible man living in the sky!!!!!! What the fuck is going on ? We have also been told that if you disagree you are an anti-semetic Racist. I like jews as much as the next guy ,I try to judge people based on my personal experience 1 on 1. But I hate the Zionist agenda and I REALLY hate the fact that I have to pay to have it carried out. Religion is nothing more than silly traditions based on geography.


2. Stop putting economic interests in front of human interest, OK this one is total bullshit ,will never happen and should probably be #1 because if this one was reality we wouldnt have the Israel problem.


So all this shit is moot ,because as Ive said before the owners of this world do whatever they want whenever they want ,so just pick a side, sit back, and enjoy the ride. As long as this world continues to have poor desperate people there will be terrorists, and thankfully beautiful hookers.

Thanks for posting that link Mitch. Clearly Bush is relying on outdated information for his outrageous claims of Cuba 'welcoming sex tourism'.

I hope he doesn't start seeking WMD's in Cuba, 'cause there ain't many Whores of Male Destruction left as far as I can tell. Me thinks Castro got the jump on this situation, and preemptively shut down the sex tourism industry in anticipation of this election year. With his USA intelligence force, Fidel probably knew about GW's plans to campaign on this issue long before GW spoke the first word.

Now all that remains is the collateral damage GW will inflict on my otherwise fine reputation in our community. People might actually think I went there for something other than diving and cigars?

In response to all of the political rhetoric above, permit me to draw this conclusion. Both Clinton and Bush are a couple of boobs, and our country needs LESS government intrusion in our lives. As does the rest of the world.

If a country wants to choose democracy, let 'em. If not, it's their problems. We have no business liberating any country. Noone liberated Americans from the British tyranny in the 1700's. Remarkably myopic, but sage advice as our world enters a new phase of terrosit warfare. Plus, I'd sooner see an $80 billion tax cut than a war with any country that is not directly challenging us.

Our new frontiers for warfare are terrorists and the Chinese. The time will come when China will overtake us in economic might, and rise to challenge the USA as a world superpower. THAT is gonna be some scary shit.

Currently, there is an intense shortage of concrete in the USA. Why? China is growing at an explosive rate, and vying for building supplies. They'll soon need oil as much as we do, and they'll be financially and militarily prepared to take steps to 'protect their interests' just like the USA has been for so many years. Chasing a few thousand Al Queda quacks around the world will seem like childs play when China matures and begins flexing their economic and military might.

Let's not forget about Europe either. With the advent of the EU, America is already losing ground in world politcs. Notice how the garotas at Help Disco and everywhere else in the world are gravitating towards european men? Over the past 2 years, the dollar has weakened agains the Euro from .79E:$1USD to 1.29:$1USD. When the service providers see the fall in the strength of the US dollar and begin flirting with the Dutch before me - THAT's some scary shit right there.

There's more currency challenges ahead for Americans too. For years, the Chinese currency has been artificially tied to the dollar. The WTO has mandated that within the next two years, the Chinese Yuan (currency) must become an independetnly valued and traded currency. That move alone will have a DRAMATIC effect on the world economy. Why?

Chinese exports will no longer be as inexpensive to import.
American import prices will surge and the trade defecit will skyrocket.
Chinese export income will fall, and the staterun economy will feel an uncomfortable squeeze.

Fun times ahead lads. And neither Bush nor Kerry impress me as astute enough to guide America through this new worldmaze.

The writing is on the wall. While Americans have 'liberally' pursued all sorts of agendas designed to stroke their collective egos, the rest of the world has been moving to supersede the USA. And I hear NOTHING about any of this from any candidate for President.

"At 28 I have it all figured out" I hope you do Larry. Just be carefull, there are a lot of folks that pray to Meca that will kill you if you don't agree with them.

There are alot of people who pray to Jesus , buddah,and Joe pesci who will do the same.

I dont agree with anyone who prays period.

To paraphrase George Carlin,
Most people who pray also believe in the divine plan ,so if God has a plan for each and everyone of us ,and knows the exact path we are going to take, and everything is already written, Why pray ? seems like a waste of time to me , are the people who pray asking God to change his plan? That doesnt make any sense, God probably put alot of thought into the plan ,decided it was a good plan , and now you come along and ask him to change it. And suppose your prayers arent answered ? what then ? Most people chalk it up to Gods will , so couldnt we go strait to Gods will and skip all the praying nonsense? And I bet if you pray to your Dog your prayers will be answered with the same frequency as God, sometimes you get what you want , sometimes you dont, same as the wishing well , the 4 leaf clover , the mojo man, and the voodoo lady , 50/50 thats it .

Joe Bless You

"Stop supporting Israel. This is the big one."

Please explain to me exactly what problems are solved when the US stops supporting Israel? Is the entire Muslim world going to start loving the west.

Have you been watching what has been occurring in Saudi Arabia lately. Explain to me how this is related to Israel.

Do you think that Iran really hates us because of Israel. If you do then do a Google search on the phrase "Shah of Iran." Of course if you are 28 than you would have only been about 3 when he fled.

Well luckily you are not a foreign advisor for Kerry/Edwards.

We stop, Fundamental Islam (and all the rest of them) attempts to exterminate them todas, then we find out whether or not the Israelis have nukes. That will be great for the world economy.

Then the only nation in the area existing as a democracy, and creating anything in the way of freedom, struggles to keep her head above all the shit holes of sand and oil. Peace in our time.

Whether or not we pray or believe shit, you can be damn sure THEY prey(sp intl), and they will continue to destroy until they have their way. All face Mecca or die. Allah is great. Allah is great.

It makes no difference whatsoever whether you are killed by a terrorist that carries a flag or doesn't carry a fucking flag. A state that hides, helps or just turns away from terrorism is not acting in the world's best interest. Pretty simple.

Clinton is and was a Chubby Chaser...Bad and unforgiveable!
Bush Used Coke...at least classier than Chubby Chicks!

Clinton has the ugliest daughter in the World...Bad
Bush has twin daughters who like to drink...Good! Very Good!

At least now we are back on topic!

Peter

Peter, I think that your comment was way out of line. There is no way Chelsea can be considered uglier than Amy Carter. I demand you recant your words.

How many decades have you lived in?

Pter29 - Who among us has not gotten a hummer from a chubby chick?

Beachbum2: I'll tell you one thing for sure. If I were President of the United States, I am sure I would do better than a hummer from a chubby chick like Monica. I would accept nothing less than Marilyn Monroe quality.

I remember seeing early photos of Monica. She wasn't chubby. She was rackaliscious. But then she started drinking Bubba Beer and the suds went straight to her hips.

Perhaps the real crime was that she didn't swallow.

I would, of course, be a much prouder American had Bill nailed Halle Berry on the desk in the Oval Office. But I still can't hold it against him for letting Monica climb between his legs as enjoyed a cigar.

You gotta figure that Kerry was getting some P4P action while he was over in Vietnam. Just one more reasone to support the Democratic ticket.

JFK really did bring more style to the White House by banging only the super hot.

Mitch, I believe the answer to your question is 5.

If I were President I would get at least 3 hummers a day from the ladies on the White House staff. Of course, that would be after I enact my staffer exchange program with other world leaders, focusing initially on Brasil and Argentina but then expanding to other friendly nations like Thailand, the PI and Sweden.

In an unrelated matter, I would deport DonGringo back to Canada at my earliest convenience

these guys are cousins

http://msn.ancestry.com/landing/strange/bush4/tree.htm

Everyone is a cousin, even some of the apes down at the zoo.

Agreed. Clinton's failure was to denigrate the image of the oval office with an ugly chic. Anyone except a feminazi or a wimp can see that Hillory is a frigid bitch so Clinton had every right in the world to look around for a little TLC. He just should have showed some class.

If I were Mr President there would be no ugly chics in the oval office. I would also get out of Iraq, napalm Israel, lower taxes except for anyone in the Sierra Club and/or registered Democrats, and seek to promote very close relations with Brazil and Colombia. Maybe legalize marijuana even though it's been a long long time since I inhaled the stuff. Definitely legalize prostitution while ending the tax free status that churches enjoy. And a mandatory death sentence for spammers after one warning.

Tight fit
And all this time I'm afraid it's just me whose the radical thinker in the bunch

Tight Fit --- You liberal wimp-- Why give spammers a warning ??? :-)