>>>If Osama is captured by the U.S., he would likely be taken to an undisclosed location and never be heard from again, like the other high-level terrorists from his organization that have been captured.
>>>Actually, this does raise an interesting point.

It raises another interesting point too. Whatever happened to the constitutional right to a fair, speedy, public trial by jury? If these people are being held by the US, US laws should apply. The fact that Bush is willing to play with legal loopholes to get around basic constitutional protections (ESPECIALLY where the 2 US citizens are concerned) really gripes my ass. And it worries me a lot that my fellow citizens don't seem to have much of a problem with it. These are Gestapo tactics.

Now it can be argued that such tactics are necessary to deal with terrorists. I'll gladly concede that the only way to deal with barbarians is to act barbarically - kill them before they kill you. Maybe we should change the constitution so that the protections it affords only apply to US citizens? I'd be ok with that. Someone once remarked that the Bill of Rights isn't a suicide pact. But to blatently act so directly in opposition to its principles and purpose, when it is supposedly the law of the land, tells me that this president doesn't give a rat's ass about the law or people's rights.

TASTE YOUR MEDICINE

Suddenly, not all talk radio is right-wing--and the National Republican Congressional Committee apparently can’t handle it:

Republicans have filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission accusing two Los Angeles radio personalities of “criminal behavior” for attacking a local congressman on-air and endorsing his Democratic opponent.

The National Republican Congressional Committee contends that ongoing criticism of Rep. David Dreier, R-San Dimas, by KFI-AM talk show hosts John Kobylt and Ken Chiampou represents an illegal in-kind donation of more than $25,000 to Dreier’s challenger.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041030-105758-8185r.htm

(Of course, “political experts ... say election law allows the media to make editorial comments, whether it’s a host endorsing President Bush, Kerry, or in this case, Kobylt and Chiampou pushing for Matthews.")

Ha, ha!

There are some great graphs dealing with polling data today

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

News from the Votemaster

Curious about who the Votemaster is and why he created this site? Meet the Votemaster.

I will stay up all night election night and update the site in real time. I am NOT promising to stay up until we know who the president is. I would definitely like to go to bed sometime during the month of October.

We have another bumper crop of polls today, 50 in all. Since Sept. 1, the total number of polls in the Polling data file is 937. Toss in another 252 polls from May 24 to Aug. 31 and we have the most studied election in the history of the world. And what's the conclusion? Nobody knows. If we just look at the most recent poll in every state, John Kerry will be elected the 44th President of the United States tomorrow with 298 votes in the electoral college vs. 231 for George Bush, with New Mexico and New Hampshire exact ties. However, even if Bush carries both of these states, Kerry still wins 298 to 240. But again, a caution is in order, Kerry's margin is razor thin in Pennsylvania, Florida, and Ohio. Pennsylvania will probably go to Kerry. Ohio is more iffy. Bush won it in 2000 and stands a decent chance of winning it in 2004 although he trails by 2% using the average of the Zogby and Gallup polls taken Oct. 28-31. Thus after 4 years of campaigning, more money spent on attack ads than the gross national product of small countries, and an exhausted electorate, what do we have? In the immortal words of Yogi Berra: "It's deja vu all over again." The whole thing comes down to Florida. where Kerry currently holds a tenuous 48% to 47% lead according to the most recent poll, from Zogby. The reality is that everything depends on turnout, how many voting machines fail, and how much monkey business happens. Oh, yeah. And there are those 10,000 lawyers ready to do what lawyers are trained to do--file lawsuits.

If Bush picks up Florida and the two states that are tied (NH and NV), then Kerry wins 271 to 267, the same margin Gore should have lost by last time. Actually, he lost 271 to 266 because one Gore elector from D.C., Barbara Lett-Simmons cast a blank ballot in protest of D.C.'s not having representation in Congress. It could be to be a long night, especially if Bush picks up either Florida or Ohio and a couple of small Kerry states in the East or Midwest, so everything depends on New Mexico.

As I have discussed repeatedly, normally people with a cell phone but no landline are not polled. Most of these are in the 18-29 year old group. Up until now, no one has known how their absence from the polling data might affect the results. Zogby has now conducted a very large (N = 6039) poll exclusively on cell phones using SMS messaging to get a feeling of how they will vote. The results are that they go strongly for Kerry, 55% to 40%, with a margin of error of only 1.2%. If they all vote tomorrow, the pollsters are going to spend the rest of the week wiping egg from their faces. But historically, younger voters have a miserable turnout record, so the pollsters need not yet stock up on paper towels.

Here are some things to remember about voting. Read carefully. Your vote could decide this election.
1. Find out today where your polling place is by calling your county clerk or checking www.mypollingplace.com
2. Alternatively, call 1-866-MYVOTE1 to find your polling place.
3. Check the hours the polls are open with your city or county clerk.
4. Print the League of Women Voters' card in English or Spanish and put it in your wallet or purse.
5. Bring a government-issued picture ID like a driver's license or passport when you vote. Some states require it but if there are problems, you will certainly need it. If you have a cell phone, take it to call for help if need be.
6. As you enter the polls, note if there is an Election Protection person outside the polling place.
7. If you are not on listed as a registered voter, try to register on the spot. Some states allow that. Otherwise, talk to the Election Protection person if there is one or call 1-866-OUR-VOTE for instructions. If neither of these helps, ask for a provisional ballot, but you will need a picture ID to get one.

For other election resources, see the League of Women Voters website. Your vote counts. Don't let anyone take it away from you.

For the longer term, we need voting machines we can trust. One group working on this is the Open voting consortium. If you want to help ensure fair voting in 2006, check out their website.

A Tied Vote and Fear of Dirty Tricks on Election Eve

It all seems to be coming down to the six states with the closest races: Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa and New Mexico.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12453-2004Oct30.html?nav=hcmodule
According to the New York Times
www.nytimes.com/2004/11/01/politics/campaign/01poll.html
the race is in a statistical tie and a new poll finds “a majority of voters and an overwhelming number of African-Americans . . concerned that their own votes would not be counted properly, and one-third said they expected to encounter problems when they went to vote.” Voting in the swing states, if you come from an obviously Kerry constituency, is becoming quite an ordeal.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12514-2004Oct30.html?nav=most_emailed
According to Ion Sancho, supervisor of elections in Leon County, Florida "it’s just lie, cheat and steal, and ethics be damned."

There's some great stuff at this site;

The final Fox News poll -- with calls on Saturday and Sunday only -- has Kerry over Bush 48% to 46% among likely voters.

www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_31.php#003880

Received yesterday from a reader down in the trenches ...
Still in Florida.

This was one of the most moving, meaningful days of my life.

My job is to get people to the polls and, more importantly, to keep them there. Because they’re crazily jammed. Crazily. No one expected this turnout. For me, it’s been a deeply humbling, deeply gratifying experience. At today’s early vote in the College Hill district of East Tampa -- a heavily democratic, 90% African American community — we had 879 voters wait an average of five hours to cast their vote. People were there until four hours after they closed (as long as they’re in line by 5, they can vote).

Here’s what was so moving:

We hardly lost anyone. People stood outside for an hour, in the blazing sun, then inside for another four hours as the line snaked around the library, slowly inching forward. It made Disneyland look like speed-walking. Some waited 6 hours. To cast one vote. And EVERYBODY felt that it was crucial, that their vote was important, and that they were important.

And there were tons of first time voters. Tons.

Aside from some hassles from the Republican election commissioner ( … [ed.note: Here the letter writer describes various shenanigans intended to exacerbate the difficulties of waiting hours in line to vote. I’ve censored this detail to preserve the anonymity of the writer.], I actually had an amazing experience. No, actually, in a way because of that I had an amazing experience. Because these people know that the system that’s in place doesn’t want them voting. And yet they are determined to vote.

The best of all was an 80 year old African American man who said to me: “When I first started I wasn’t even allowed to vote. Then, when I did, they was trying to intimidate me. But now I see all these folks here to make sure that my vote counts. This is the first time in my life that I feel like when I cast my vote it’s actually gonna be heard.”

To see people coming out — elderly, disabled, blind, poor; people who have to hitch rides, take buses, etc — and then staying in line for hours and hours and hours... Well, it’s humbling. And it’s awesome. And it’s kind of beautiful.

Sometimes you forget what America is.

I think there’s hope.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_31.php#003880

I voted absentee ballot, for Kerry, and then a bunch of Libertarians.

TJ Uncle:

You certainly come a long way to have nephews and nieces in TJ! You don't have a bad site, but giving Kerry both Ohio and Florida is somewhat optimistic. And your Wisconsin call flies in the face of the actual polling data.

TJ Uncle:

Did you manage to actually vote in this election?

I was planning to vote absentee but when I found out San Diego has a paper ballot I decide to vote on Nov 2nd, I'm now regreting it. I really don't have much faith in any polls but I allow myself some hope over anything that sounds like Bush is going down. Electoral-vote is not my site although I really appreciate it, the conclusions are averaged over dozens of polls. It's telling that the guy who runs it admits alot of the data is questionable. The key is to keep the faith and get out the vote. I want to thank you guys for putting up with me this year. I was involved in a accident a few months ago and have been kinda house bound. I haven't been down to TJ in a while and I enjoy keeping current through clubhombe. I've been impressed by the calibur of politcal discussion I've read from most contributors, and
whatever happens tuesday I
would like to wish everyone well in the times to come. No matter who wins the divisions in this country are going to take a long while to heal
and I hope we all come out better for it.

I hope this makes the Bush haters feel better,I live in Florida,and tomorrow I'm voting for Kerry.I hope it helps.

Talk about frustrating:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=electionsNews&storyID=6681154



After all this campaigning, the Zogby state polls show Bush leading in the states he won in 2000, and Kerry leading in the states Gore won in 2000. In most cases, their small leads have grown into larger leads over the last few days.

There is one state that is tied. Guess what, its Florida.

Forget the recounts, this is a re-run !!!

Explorer beat me to it!

I was just going to post the same thing. Looks like the election will be decided in Florida again.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry_sbys.html

I wish Kerry would just pickup Ohio instead....

Oh, BTW. I'd be willing to bet money we won't know the winner by midnight tomorrow. I'd also be willing to bet money that all kinds of votes and voters are going to be contested (by both parties) and this will most likely end up in the Supreme Court again. I hope I am WRONG!

SNL's presidential gag show this evening included some of the old classic clips of Phil Hartman as Clinton and Dana Carvey as both Bush the Elder and Ross Perot. While the debate skits have been SORT OF funny this year, the classic stuff is exactly that. Anyway, for those in the West Coast, it's worth a look.

As for tomorrow, I hope Mr. Bush is sent off into vaction-land for good.

Explorer:

Your're fucking with my mind! First you "guarantee" that if Kerry polls within five points just before the election, he will win (boy, was I happy when I heard that), and now you are posting that "this is a re-run," that will come down to Florida, which is tied. If I go insane within the next 48 hours, I am going to hold you personally responsible.

Current Vegas odds, anyone?

Bush -139
Kerry +129

I can't believe no one made note of the Redskins game on Sunday. Since 1933, the Skin's final home game before the election has correctly predicted the winner. When they won, the incumbent remained; when they lost, new administration. On Sunday, it was Green Bay over Washington, 28-14.

Go Packers!

Top secret exit poll data:

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109053/

CNN coverage:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/president/

I've heard a lot of stuff about Bush's 'base', but from the results so far, it looks like his 'base' is a bunch of rednecks. The more hicks in the state, the stronger they vote for Bush. Yeehaw!

CBS is calling states a LOT faster than anyone else, I mean 30-45 minutes at times. CNN's repeating the same shit over and over and over between the intermittent reports on something outside the presidential race. I understand the importance of getting things right, but why not talk about the significance of the partial vote counts already in? It's like the result comes in like MAGIC -- '5 seconds ago we had NO clue, now it's DEFINITE'. The best example, what took them so long to call Pennsylvania?

It's starting to look a lot like Pres. Bush will have another 4 years in office.

FWIW, I agree.

With 83% if the precincts reporting in Ohio Bush is up by 138K votes. Kerry can't win without Ohio so it's pretty much over.

So I guess we can look forward to:

-Four more years of tax cuts for billionaires
-Four more years of limits and new laws against porn
-Four more years of Ashcroft
-Four more years of attacks on our hobby, which will probably be outright illegal by 2008.
-Four more years of being the most hated country in the world
-Four more years of less privacy, less free speech rights, less due process in the legal system, and more Patriot Act type laws that basically let law enforcement due whatever the hell they want and without judicial oversight.
-Four Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia like appointments to the Supreme Court.

Say goodbye to privacy and say goodbye to jobs that will continue to move oversees. Say hello to limits on freedom of speech and due process. Say hello to even more copyright laws limiting how you can USE the technology and music, software, movies you BUY, Say hello to more indency prosecutions for the porn you view in the privacy of your own home. Say hello to laws that will make it illegal to visit a prostitute ANYWHERE in the world. Say hello to RECORD BUDGET DEFICITS as well.

Well it's looking like the Democrats are getting there butts kicked tonight....Not only has Kerry lost, but the Dems gave up seats in both the House and the Senate.

And worst of all - say hello to 20 years of exceedingly right-wing supreme court decisions.

>>>Say hello to RECORD BUDGET DEFICITS as well.

Ironically, OBL seems to understand better than Bush does just how rapidly our country is approaching a fiscal point of no return (also known as bankruptcy). For those who have never taken a look at the national debt from a personal perspective, this might be a shocker: http://www.nationaldebt.org. Yeah - that's $25,000 owed by every man, woman and child in the country.

Xen, this is truly sad. We are losing the cultural war in this country to the blue-haired bible thumpers. They are dangerous people and impervious to logical thought. Wave a red cape like 'gay marriage' at them and Bubba and Marge charge like elephants to the polls. Bush's popular vote margin in the states he won REALLY hammers this home. Piss poor showing by the Democrats in the south this year. And does anybody see that CHANGING anytime soon?

I would think that the biggest impact of this Bush win will be the Supreme Court. And of course Joe Bob Six Pack remains oblivious that Bush's deficits and tax policies are fucking THEM more than anyone.

Well guys I did what I could here in Florida,but it didn't help.I'm very depressed also.Makes more determined to retire to LOS in 4 years.Xen I wouldn't be too worried about making our hobby a crime in other coutries.They'd have to make it a crime here first,and it's legal in many counties in Nevada.

We need to form a Nation named the United States of Northern and Coastal America, allowing the Confederate states, along with the other similarly-minded inbred states, to finally go their own way. Without it, this ain't gonna get better. Never.

I just heard on CNN an analyst's opinion based upon exit polls that the reason George won is "values". Not economics, not foreign policy, not any particular social issue, but "values".

I wonder what the heck that means. Does it mean that the born again evangelical Christians were the deciding group?

Yikes

What can I say .....except.... I told you so!

Who would have thought Bush would win Florida by 5%....except me! I am telling you Kerry and the Democrats had very little to say about the 4 hurricanes that hit us here in Florida...because they hit mostly Republican strongholds. In all of Kerry and Edwards visits here they didn't visit any of the places where the hurricanes hit!

Tom Daschle.... goodbye!

When are the Democrats going to fire Terry McCulliffe?

Here in Virginia, at least Fairfax County and the other DC suburbs, Kerry won the day - 53-46 in Fairfax (pop. 1.1M) Arlington and Alexandria, Falls Church and Fairfax City were over 60% for Kerry. We're the only reason why Bush only won by 8 points. Take us out and Virginia is Alabama with Bush winning by 15 points.

The voter turnout was about 72% in Northern Virginia, not too damn bad at all.

My precinct was 60-40 Kerry-Bush. Ah, the joy of the northern half of Fairfax County - we're a little bastion of intellect in a sea of Red!

Kerry got his ass handed over to him.
Even Daschle is out of a job now.

It is SO over for the Democratic party it is not even funny. They are gone, dead, buried. After so much talk, energy, hope about a "fresh new start," and $$ poured in, there is NOTHING to show for it, except setbacks. A crushing defeat.

As for Laguy's comment. . .

I'll admit to daydreaming of a new separatist movement, possibly arising from the intellectually charged and financially deep northeast. I read an article in the NY Times a week ago saying if you took the tri-state region and made it a country onto itself, it would rank second only to the rest of the U.S. in a bunch of key economic and tax revenue figures.

If people who live here get pissed off enough about subsidizing the tax incentives of the red states while having to eat their moral agenda, that could lead to a change.

But I wouldn't bet on it. The smart thing is to hedge, that's why permanent residency in another country or dual citizenship is the way to go for me. . . ;-)

Four more Years!
Four more Years!

Congrats to President Bush

The majority of American voters, the stock markets (non hicks) and I are very happy.


BTW I was raised Democrat, and my family is not rich. its just that the Democrats are no longer the party they once for.

Heck there were even many Bush signs in the yards of liberal west LA / Brentwood. (non hicks)

If you watched MSNBC last night you would of heard actor Ron Silver say that even many well known actors were secretly voting for Bush even though they were contributing to Kerry and out on Kerry's campaign trail.

In Hollywod if you don't support the Gay and lesbian candidate you don't work.

What a shame in a supposed free country and democracy.

The better candidate has won.

Four more years!

Gee I wonder why Tjuncle has not posted about his boy yet....Bush took both the Electoral and the popular vote this year.

Going to be hard for the MoveOn.org and Mike Moron to find a reason to bitch about this election.

Actually....

From Slashdot.org:

"Blackboxvoting.org has raised the largest Freedom of Information request in history. At 8:30 p.m. Election Night, Black Box Voting blanketed the U.S. with the first in a series of public records requests, to obtain internal computer logs and other documents from 3,000 individual counties and townships. Networks called the election before anyone bothered to perform even the most rudimentary audit. Among the first requests sent to counties (with all kinds of voting systems -- optical scan, touch-screen, and punch card) is a formal records request for internal audit logs, polling place results slips, modem transmission logs, and computer trouble slips."

http://blackboxvoting.org/#foia

I fully support this. Not because I think the election was rigged towards Bush, but as a computer professional I know how easily it could have been. Someone should take the time to audit and review all the logs from these new electronic voting systems regardless of who won.

Sorry I can no longer edit my post and what I meant to say was the Democrats are no longer the party they once were

and they don't stand for what they used to stand for.

Big winner = Hillary!!

There is nothing standing between her and the Democratic nomination in 2008, yes?

Bill Clinton as the nation's First Man anyone??

LOL

I've always wondered what the US will have first.

A female president or a black president? That being said I think Barrack Obama WILL be POTUS one day. That guy has something special. I don't think Hilary can win, although I wonder if she qualifies as a southern Democrat still?

It has been proven time and again the only Democrat that can win the presidency these days is a southern one. See Johnson, Carter and Clinton...

I would imagine that the top Republican candidates in 2008 will be Guiliani and Jeb Bush. McCain will be 72 in 2008. That is 3 years older than Reagan when he won in 1980 so I think McCain is done, although I would support him 100% over any Democratic challenger.

Although, all Giuliani and J Bush need to do is hire Karl Rove again to do some push polling in the South Carolina primaries. One of the attacks Bush did against McCain in 2000 was to call people up and ask them, "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain for president if you knew he had fathered an illegitimate black child?”

Then all the hicks and bigots in South Carolina turned on their televisions. The seed was planted and then there was John McCain campaigning all over South Carolina with his beautiful wife and their little adopted Bangladeshi daughter. The site of the little dark skinned girl made the seed planted earlier grow and John McCain lost South Carolina to Bush which basically ended his bid for the White House.

The Democrats don't get .....they talk about how Star Wars is not scientifically not possible just like opponents of the inventing and improving Rader was in the 1930's and if Rader wasn't improved and implented the way it was before and during World War Two there would have probaly been a much different outcome.

But when it come to science they want to force down our throats the Gay & Lesibian issue that people are born that way without any solid scientific proof that they are. If you noticed the American people by a 3-1 margin voted against Gay Marriage in the states where it was on the ballot.

Maximus is right....the Hollywood elite has made the Gay agenda its major issue and John Kerry stood up and said Hollywood elite is the heart and soul of America. How out of touch with the American people can you be. How many voters in those states especially Ohio.... went to the polls and saw the Gay marriage issue there on the same ballot with John Kerry and George W. Bush and if they were undecided and saw who was for it and who was against it.

They knew how strongly George Bush was against it.....just like 70% plus of the American people Bush stood with them. And John Kerry ....well ....they know he stood with the Hollywood elite.

Now my point is...is that Exit polls show that morals rank higher than any other issue on what influenced who voters voted for. Higher than the War in Iraq....Terrorism......The Economy....Health Care! It seems that George W. Bush....despite all the spin you Democrats will spin..... Bush won the election because he stood up for his values and even if voters disaggreed with some of his policies they trust Bush more than Kerry.

And to point out again....here in Florida...Kerry and the Democrats....Senators Graham and Nelson spent very liitle effort in assuring and comforting the people hit by the 4 Hurricanes that hit Florida because they hit mostlty Republican strongholds. I guarantee you if MiamiDade area had been hit with the hurricanes the Democrats would have been there in force!

Remember....I pointed out after the first debate down in Miami....while Bush spent the whole day visting areas showing support to victims hit by the hurricanes....while Kerry was getting a manicure. I think the people of Florida that day really saw who was the most compasionate canidate! Bush won Florida by 5%....but the Senate race was decided by less than 1%.

Billcink....I don't know where you live in Florida or if are in an area that was hit. But am I wrong in saying that Kerry and the Democrats spent very little time or effort in the areas that hit by the were hit by the Hurricanes.

NO ONE could rightly say, "I told you so"!

This election was very close and could have gone either way. It's very sad that it did go the way it did and even sadder that (slightly) 1/2 of the voters were either scared into the way they voted by Cheney's "Vote for us or you'll die" speeches or just don't care.

So, what's next? Iran?

Beach; I have to agree with you on the gay marriage issue. Out of the 11 states where there was a vote to ban gay marriage, it was banned in all 11, and 10 out of 11 of those states went to Bush.

The other power base that the Democrats have always counted on are the unions. In the 50's, 60's, and the 70,s they had lots of power but they hit there peek in the 80's and have been on a downward slid ever since then.

If anybody got screwed over in this election it was John Edwards. He gave up his Senate seat to run on the Kerry ticket, something that Kerry was wise not to do.

Edwards did not give up his seat to run on the Kerry ticket. He was not standing for re-election regardless because he was not going to win again there. He gave up his seat to "focus" on his "Presidential bid" back in September of 2003 long before Kerry wrapped up the Democratic nomination. He did not give up his seat to stand with Kerry. So that statement is just flat out incorrect.

http://www.hillnews.com/campaign/090303.aspx

Roadglide-

You are right about the unions....they are losing alot of power. Alot of members are getting fed up with the fraud and misuse of the dues that they pay.

Edwards probaly wouldn't have gotten re-elected if he had run again. That was his first term and the good people of North Carolina got taken by his slick talking....Gomer Pyle smiling.... I am one of you elected me....but they saw once he was elected he was far more liberal than he represented himself to be.... once he was elected.

Here is man if Kerry is elected....Edwards is a heartbeat away from being President ....and the people of his home state didn't trust him enough to vote for him and Kerry....it wasn't even close!

He reminds me too much of Gore....and the good people didn't trust Gore enough to elect him President of the United States. If Gore had won his homestate of Tennesse...he would have been elected.


Don't shed any tears for Edwards....he tricked the people of North Carolina to elect him to the Senate only to have him not represent the people of North Carolina.....but for him to represent the Liberal Northeast and West Coast of the United States by becoming one of the most liberal Senators in Congress.....his voting record proves.

The people of North Carolina would not have reelected him!

Hmm.

Simply put, the irony in discussing the role "morality" and "values" played in the election, within this forum, should be lost on no one.

Having noted that, McCain now has a clear shot at the White House in 2008 if his health holds up. That had to be the quid pro quo that kept him from clobbering Bush's record among moderate Rs and Independents. He solidified Bush's base where it sorely needed some shoring up.

Pendejo

(Message edited by pendejo on November 03, 2004)

I suspect that Xenono is correct about McCain being too old in 08, his long stay in the Hanoi Hilton was not good for his health, and as I have said in the past, I felt McCain was the better of the two Republican choices.

However this does play to Sen. Clinton for a bid at the Democratic nomination in 08. Give it two more years and we should see the playing field start to develop.

Tjuncle.....where are you?

Pendejo,

Exactly! If you think you've seen conservatives in action, keep up to date on current events the next two years.

As Davey Crockett said upon hearing that he lost his re-election bid for Congress, when asked what he thought about the good people of Tennessee who voted him out, he said, more or less "they can all go to hell, I'm going to Texas!" Well, just remember - half the country despises the Bush regime, even more so now than two days ago. The fact that he actually won, fair and square this time, is the only thing keeping a lot of people going.

By the way, since when did 282 electoral votes and a two-percentage point winning margin (by an incumbant no less) become a mandate? Reagan sweeping the board? Mandate. Clinton in 92 and 96? Mandate. Winning Ohio by 160,000 votes in 2004? Please.

Americans got what they wanted. We should all hope we want what we now get.

FOUR more years of MISERY and DISPAIR! Could it get worse?

We have no choice, but to give George W. a chance?

Kerry ran a horrible campaign. He was banking strictly on anti Bush sentiment, and he almost won. The problem is that he did nothing to garner pro Kerry sentiment, and it seems that some of Bush's tactics to generate anti Kerry sentiment worked.

I am sad about the entire thing but on the other hand, the fact that Kerry ran such a bad campaign does not suggest to me that he would have made a very strong president. I voted for Kerry for the same reason that everyone else did, because he was not George Bush.

Yep, BT, that sums it up. He did a great job convincing 48 percent of the population to vote against Bush. He didn't get the three percent he needed to convince to vote for John Kerry.

Catocony; It may not be a mandate...but he got more popular votes than any other presidential canidate in history!

Note to Mikey Mooron: Pot-smoking slacker losers, no matter how much you try to cajole them into voting, are still nothing but pot-smoking slacker losers.Enjoy your MTV

Tjuncle.....You have been real quiet today.