This thread probably won't go far but I happen to believe that most of the bloodshed since the beginning of recorded history is due to the hatred of others for the Jews. I don't know why. The latest episode in this history of tragedy is the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis.

It's ironic, but the last mental image I have of Mr. Arafat is him getting on the airplane to die in France blowing kisses to everybody.

Israelis are themselves some of the most bigoted war mongering people imaginable. They treat the Palestinians like animals. If I was a Palestinian, I imagine I would be violently fighting Israel as well. They should bury Arafat and Sharon next to each other. They are both pieces of shit and deserve each other. America should cut Israel loose and not involve ourselves in Israelis racist holy war. Arab, Moslem extremists are a bunch of assholes and Israeli Jewish extremists are a bunch of armholes. Why take sides in that fight.

>>>America should cut Israel loose and not involve ourselves in Israelis racist holy war.

I've long felt that we should refuse to sell them any more arms until the Palestinian issue is resolved. Unfortunately, neither side seems inclined to accept reasonable compromises on this issue.

>>>Arab, Moslem extremists are a bunch of assholes and Israeli Jewish extremists are a bunch of armholes. Why take sides in that fight.

Amen to that.

It must be tough to take a bullet up the ass that is made in the usa, and have love to the country that gave the arms to the country shooting at you. Everyone has so much outrage out of some black woman getting welfare, but still think it is some sort of god's will to militarily arm a whole country. Israel can't even give the guy his last wish, not that they need to. But Israel talks a big game as long as they get USA support. Suspend US monetary support to Israel and resettle the country in one of the red states. lmao.

The religious Bush crowd seems to think that Israel is a necessity, because for the big "Second Coming", there needs to be a free Jewish state, or some such shit.

After what the world did to the European Jews I guess one might say there is a debt. Yes, that's over 50 years ago, but it's a large debt.

As is the one white America owes the black man... or the American Indian. Those go much further back in time, and it's clear the debt is there there (tax-free casinos?).

If we look at all known history, then IMO the largest killer and distributor of suffering is the Catholic Church.

Muslims, Jews, Catholics, extremists... they're all just categories.

In the end, my favorite bumber sticker reads:

"Guns don't kill people, Religions kill people."

The English owe the Irish and Scots, the French owe the English, the Goths owe the French, Attilla owes the Goths.......

What we need is armies of jewish and palistinian mongers. Each would infiltrate the other and monger all night. I bet they would value the opponent's pooying a little more after the excercise and stop blowing it up.

polysci 101 from DM

sancho-- how do u really feel?

Well put Sancho! A FUCKING MEN!

Yasser Arafat represented many of the issues that are central to world conflict.

Arafat was a lifelong homosexual (his marriage back a dozen years ago was a sham) and many suspect his passing was due to AIDS.

The Arab world practices separation of the sexes at an early age, which probably accounts for the high incidence of male homosexuality.

Does Arafat's passing increase the chances of peace in the Midddle East?
Hardly.
The Palestinian population possess a mindset that is not thinking of peace with the Israelis.

Lest anyone think the problem of peace with the Muslims is a peculiar Israeli fault ... if the Muslims got their wish and drove the Israelis from the region ... that would not appease the Muslims.

Muslims have already expressed their opinion that Spain, a once possessing a large Muslim population ... Spain would be next.

Eventually the USA would incur the Muslims wrath. Until the Muslims obtained their wish ... a world populated only with Islam adherent peoples.

The non-Muslim population are considered infidels and the extreme Islamic viewpoint is that those blasphemous people can choose to either convert to the Muslim religion ... or die.

Unfortunately for the Muslims, they lack the numbers or muscles to carry out their privately held view.

The examples were everywhere during the early years after Mohammad's arrival in the 7th century of the "convert or die" mentality ... particularly in northern Africa where the old sun religion and Coptic religions were forsaken by Egyptians when faced with death.

Just as Hitler would tell the world "this is my last territorial demand" only to make another territorial demand after annexing Checkoslavakia ... to believe you can appease the Muslims, that the Muslims are making their last demand when asking that the land that was once Palestine is their last territorial demand when in reality they want back Spain, all the territories of Alexander the Great, etc. ... well, the world might as well draw a line somewhere and Israel is as good a place to tell them "No" as any.

To think that any President of the United States is going to impose a peace settlement upon Israel is prepostorous.
The American Jews are a very talented group of people with their intelligentia and industriousness. The American Jews, although a very small segment of the US population, dominate the leadership positions in this society due to their talent; occupying large portions of the medical field, the lawyer profession, the engineering sciences, performing arts, and the media.

In short, the Jews dominate public opinion in the US given their entrenchment in television, major newspapers, movies, news magazines, the theatre, etc.

Example of how Jews control television ... the most common name in the world is the name "Mohammad".
I would like somebody to tell me one, just one, person in the television industry whose name is "Mohammad".

Any politician, be it a president, senator, congressman or the like; any attempt to restrict Israel's right to determine their own destiny by a US imposed peace settlement ... that politician is going to be maligned as an out-of-touch extremist (bad guy).

Clinton was smart enough to not even try to impose a peace settlement on Israel.

Jews preferred the promises of Dubya over the indifference of Al Gore. Gore tried to stem the Jewish avalanche of favortism for Dubya Bush, by the Jewish controlled media, by picking an Orthodox Jew like Lieberman but it didn't work.

Israel temporarily survives the Arab hatred of them but time is growing short. The technology of a harmful weapon capable of mass destruction, carried in a briefcase by a terrorist/extremist and left in a bus, or in a shopping mall ... that is becoming more prevalent. Americans should wake up because if it can happen in Israel ... it can happen in the USA.

You know, nuclear weapon technology, once thought to be the sole possession of a few brilliant scientists ... nowadays there are a glut of smart people, including many Orientals ... building a nuclear weapon is not really high-tech. It's the rarity of a type of Uranium that is keeping every smart country from having their own arsenal.

Not unlike the computer industry. Computers, once thought to be high tech ... it is not a mystery anymore about how to build a computer. Everybody knows the 41 parts that go into a computer and the well known computer makers just happen to be a little more efficient at bringing the 41 parts together.

Back to Arafat.

Arafat represented a lot of things that troubled the world.

Maybe Arafat would be alive today if he was more like the members of this board ... a hetersexual man trying to get laid by beautiful women in exotic places of the world.

Maybe we whore mongers, who try to like the best sex providers of every culture ... maybe we are the solution to world peace.

Maybe?

I thought Barak's offer of peace to Arafat at Camp David was reasonable, and probably the best compromise one could have reasonably reached that would have benefited the Palestinians. In response Arafat basically spat in Barak's face, and renewed terrorist activities against Israel, thereby destroying the Palestinians standard of living and future for at least a generation.

While I'm not about to support everything Israel is presently doing, I agree that many of the problems in the region today stem from something Abba Eban, who was somewhat of an Israeli peacenik, once said, and that is that the Palestinians never lose an opportunity to lose an opportunity, such as at Camp David.

While one might arguably justify some of the early terrorist activity by the Palestinians as a strategic effort to assert some power in a situation where they were otherwise relatively powerless, the Palestinian terrorist activities of the last four or five years have absolutely no strategic value, and only serve to assure that the Palestinians continue to live sub-standard lives.

Hopefully, some of the moderates in the PLO will now be able to have some say, and steer the course to peace. Only then will I condemn Israel if it does not respond in kind.

FLHobbyer writes:

After what the world did to the European Jews I guess one might say there is a debt. Yes, that's over 50 years ago, but it's a large debt.

Please, the world didn't try to exterminate all of the Jews, it was the Nazis in Germany. Racism exists in many quarters and life is not fair.

Please, I get so sick of Jews whining about injustices done to them all of the time. The world is not 'just' for anyone or any race. Injustice is as common as weeds on this planet and noone is special in that regard and nobody escapes it either by the way.

Don't forget it took a lot of gentile blood to open up those extermination camps and put an end to that Nazi barbarism.

The Israelis just love the fact that America is now embroiled in the Israeli holy war against the Arab world (one billion strong I might add). What a costly alliance this is and will be for the United States. Name one thing that Israel has done for our country that has directly benefited us. It is all one way and one day Americans will all regret this quagmire that we have gotten ourselves into.

There is an old European saying that goes: "When God wants to punish a nation, he gives it leaders who have no wisdom".

What bothers me about the situation is that, acording to the numbers, Israel is practically a lost cause already. The average Jewish Israeli woman has 2.6 kids, the average Arab Israeli has 5.5, and the average Arab woman in the occupied territories has 6.5 (sorry, I can't remember the source of the data). By simple attrition, Arab Israelis will outnumber Jewish Israelis by around 2040 to 2050. There is no way Israel can survive as a Democracy or a Jewish state based on those numbers. Sooner or later, the Jews will be a minority in their own country. For it's own survival, Israel needs to find peace and establish a Palestinian state ASAP or Israel will inevitably be in huge trouble.

Lancer, no one said the world tried to exterminate the Jews. But does the world share the blame? I say yes... I guess you say no. The world (allies) screwed it up at Versailles, created the ability for something like Nazi Germany to happen (we always seem to create or own problems), and then allowed it to become what it was.

The world turned it's back on the Jews in the 1930s, long before exterminations started and the world was fighting as it could. There are documented cases of Jews not being allowed to enter the US in their flee (I remember a story of some ship that was not allowed in many ports - US and European). That's turning your back. We do it all over the world where their is no oil or money gain involved.

Genocide is not specfic to the history of Jews in Europe. Ask the Armenians what happened to their people in eastern Turkey. To this day the Turks totally deny the fact that they either killed or ran out an entire society. Ask the people of Rwandi about genocide. Or southern Sudan. Or Bosnia. Or any number of places. The tragedy of some of these examples is compounded when in later years members of the oppressed become the oppressors. This is what has happened in Israel.

The example given above regarding the name of Mohammad is a good one. Jewish controlled media have made darn sure that we have a continual stream of tear jerker stories about what took place in nazi Gemany along with modern day stories of the dirty evil Mohammads of the world.

Arafat and millions of other Palestinias would claim, and rightfully so, that the only difference between Hitler and Sharon is geographic and what point each of them was on the curve. Arafat had his problems and was certainly not a perfect man. Neither was Martin Luthur King nor Nelson Mandela. But all of them are genuine heroes who fought to end racism and exploitation of their people.

I suppose embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars from the Palestinian authority was part of Arafat's being a genuine hero who fought to end exploitation of his people. The level of corruption (in this and other regards)in Arafat's regime was outrageous. I suppose we can excuse this by saying he was not a perfect man. Right?

Anyone who's going to go out and cry for Arafat really should read this piece: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/11/11/arafat_the_monster.

I found this section especially powerful:
===============================================
It would take an encyclopedia to catalog all of the evil Arafat committed. But that is no excuse for not trying to recall at least some of it.

Perhaps his signal contribution to the practice of political terror was the introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.

Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?

So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.
===============================================

Arafat a hero? Not in my book.

On the other hand, it only takes one look at the settlement map on this page (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5729488/) to see why the Palestinians are upset with the Jewish settlements on the west bank. Before seeing this map, I never realized how many "settlements" there were. If these were settlements in say, Manhattan, protected by foreign troops that we were powerless to fight, how would Americans feel about it?

Thanks for the link to the Globe article, very interesting. One thing about Arafat, however, that I'm not sure ANYONE can answer is to what degree he personally was responsible for the terrorist actions committed by Palestinians. His Nobel prize would indicate that there are at least some that think he wasn't responsible.

On the other hand, while I don't think anyone can defend the killing of innocent children (or adults, for that matter) under any circumstances, in a situation when a people are being oppressed by an overwhleming occupying army, isn't terrorism an effective way to strike back? Or does the side with the more expensive fancy weapons (supplied at a considerable profit by US, of course) always automatically do whatever horrific things they want with impunity?

(Message edited by porker on November 14, 2004)

Phoenixguy

This is why in my initial post I said Arafat is a piece of shit. What I also pointed out is that the article does not cover in typical US media style is that the Isralies in general and Sharon in particular are equally guilty if not more so of many atrocities. My point is why are we taking sides in a war of "the bad guys vs the bad guys".

Robewarrior
Points out that the ethnic purity of Israel is threatened by the birth rate af the Arabs and uses this fact to justify Israels barbarism. All I have to say to that is, that is a problem commonly faced by racist countries based on ethnic purity. Hitler had his way of dealing with it. Sharon's ethnic clensing is, I supose mild in comparison.

Whoa Sancho....
I never stated that the Arab birth rate justifies any barbarism nor was it implied. I stated they need to make peace now because in a few decades Arab Israelis will outnumber Jewish Israelis. For Israel to survive as a Democracy, they need to resolve the Palestinian issue quickly. Otherwise, Israels survival as a Democratic nation may be threatened since the majority of that nations people will be Arab and much more sympathetic the the Palestinian cause. Who knows? Israel may end up with a civil war on it's hands like Bosnia.

Change ethnic groups in your post to any two groups other than the protected and untouchable Israelis and the Arabs and your statement comes off as very racist. I point this out only because I am forever amazed by how people readily accept Israeli racism but reject other racism.

Try this. Take your post. Copy it. Paste it in notepad. Go edit, replace, and change just three words. Take all instances of the word Jewish and replace it white. replace the word Jews with whites. Replace Arab with black. Then reread your statement and see if it doesn't sound like you are a member of the KKK. Why should I read it any differently when the ethnic groups are changed?

I am Sancho: I didn't realize whites constituted a religious group, as your analogy suggests.

I was making a comparison based on ethnicity not religion. My analogy stands. For the record I do not believe any religion makes one ethnic group superior to another. Nor do I really see the difference between Iran being an "Islamic state" and Israel being a "Jewish state". I certainly wont support Iran's religious government. Why should I support Israel?

heavy stuff!!!

Here's a topic: KY or Astrolube?





(Message edited by donmarco on November 14, 2004)

Astroglide..... Definitely.

Sancho...

I am surprized at how well you can distort a comment regarding factual demographics and racism. Likewise, anyone can switch words around in any post and it can be interpreted as racist.

As far as cutting and pasting white and black, it doesn't change the fact that the demographics in the region are changing rapidly and peace needs to be resolved quickly before it's too late. Interpret my post any way you wish, the statistical facts will not change.

Why is it "to late" if Israel returns to being majority Arab? Why should I care?. What's in it for me to take sides in the fight for the ethnic purity of Israel? In recent history, the Arabs were there first anyway, and I have no interest in backing the Israelis on the basis of what god said. To be perfectly honest, I really don't give a shit about the whole conflict except the credibility of the US has been squandered in the Islamic world on the basis of our stead fast defense of that worthless chunk of desert land.

The point is, for Israel to remain Democratic in the long run, let alone exist, they need to resolve the Palestinian situation quickly due to the demographic fact the Israel itself is becoming more Arab. This has nothing to do with "ethnic purity". It's simply an inevitable political transformation that needs to be adressed soon before it's too late, for Israel's sake. Whether you personally care about the future of the country isn't the point. Quite frankly, I find it even more curious that so little attention is given to the British, who really are at the heart of this mess. Notice that the lines on the map of the Middle East were written by British generals.

It's simple when I apply my values...

Extract the female talent and let them and the palistinians blow each other to bits.

Regarding the different birth rates and the whole idea of both a democratic Israel and Palestinian state side by side I just came across an interesting article on Yahoo. Israel is not going to let the thousands of Palestinians in and around Jeruselum register to vote in the upcoming elections to see who replaces Arafat. Why? Because that would give legitimacy to a Palestinian claim to the area.

We always hear about how murderous the filthy arabs are while the Israelis are direct descendents from angel. And how one society is incapable of democracy while the other is second only to ourselves in purity of a government by the people and for the people.

Concerning the comments about what constitutes legitiment criticism and what is racism it is hard not to notice that certain groups, and not just Jews, are exempt from any negative attacks in a politically correct situation. For a long time I have believed that nut cases like the KKK and skin head anti semetic groups are receiving financial support from the very people that they hate. This way it is almost impossible for anyone in the center to discuss some of the crap that is pulled for fear of being branded as a racist.

Don Marco says, "Extract the female talent and let them and the palistinians blow each other to bits."

Good idea but don't say it too loudly. Look what happened to that Dutch film maker who was killed by Islamic extremists who were pissed off about his comments.

I am not going to dive into this specific topic much as I don't really know a lot about it. This probably isn't even the appropriate thread, but something TF just said made me think about a story two American GI's told me last night as I gave them a ride back to their barracks in Giessen.

Both had been in Iraq. They started their tour when "major combat was declared over" and had returned this past July.

My story has to do with mongering in Iraq. Apparently there was one lady that many of the soldiers used for, ahem, pleasure. $1 US for a blowjob and $2 or $3 for sex. One of the guys from last night said he fucked her in his tank.

Taking his story with a grain of salt, it turned slightly more depressing when he said that when her father found out about her activities he sliced her throat from ear to ear. Apparently this took place in front of their “gate” and there wasn't a damn thing they could do about it because it was "their religion."

I didn't get more specifics from them and still take the story with a bit of salt, but thought I would share it "as is" anyway.

Arafat died of cirrhosis, paper says

"Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat died of cirrhosis of the liver, but French doctors were loath to say so because of a common public belief that the disease is the result of alcoholism, a French newspaper reported yesterday."

"Allegations that Arafat, 75, was a heavy drinker — forbidden in Islam — would have clouded the mourning that began Nov. 11, when he died."

"Cirrhosis is a scarring of the liver. Scarred cells can't perform their functions, so a severely scarred liver stops filtering blood and producing the proteins the body needs."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002094120_arafat18.html

I hate anyone who wears a hat that displays his faith, so that includes jews , sikhs, the pope. I hate jews for other reasons as well, they are sepratists, they really believe they are special because they are gods chosen people. Well guess what, you arent there is no god and youve wasted your life.

As for Arafat while I sympathize with his people He was shit not because of terrorism, [Now there is a word that nobody knows the meaning of], but because he had so many back room deals cut with the heebs, at the expense of his subjects its disgusting.

Anyone wanna start a religion? And say that some part of the world is our promised land with a ficticious book as our only proof?

Larrydavid:

Although I have been amused in the past with the stupidity of many of your posts, I think you have outdone yourself. Congratulations on achieving super stupid status on this board.

Xeno,

Stop wasting time posting this and get that report on Germany done!:°)

I dont see whats stupid about my post, whats stupid is running around the strets with a yarmulke. I wanna start handing out visors so you guys can have proper hat