A little correction on the "Me cais bien", literally "Me you fall well", translates as "I feel you are a good person". Like my little friend says "Me cai bien tu hermano Chino Loco" meaning "Your crazy chinese brother seems like a good guy." (Real life example)

To actually say "I like you" say "Me gustas (tu)" like the Mano Chau song.

cf/ja,

You are right but you are spelling caer incorrectly. "me caes bien" and "me cae bien' would be correct. Obviously it becomes "me caiste bien" and "me cayó bien"in the preterite.

gracias for the correction. all the conjugations of caer are appropriate depending on who your talking about. you can also negate it as "no me cae bien" or "me cae malo (o mal?)" {3rd person example} when you think someone is a jerk.

cf/ja writes "A little correction on the "Me cais bien", literally "Me you fall well", translates as "I feel you are a good person". Like my little friend says "Me cai bien tu hermano Chino Loco" meaning "Your crazy chinese brother seems like a good guy." (Real life example)"

cf/ja in addition to relying on your "little friend" for your translations you might want to consult a dictionary before rushing to post your 'corrections.'

The following was taken from the Vox online dictionary at http://www.vox.es/consultar.html


|| caer bien, (persona) to like: cae bien a todo el mundo, everyone likes her. || caer mal, : (persona) not to like: Juan me cae mal, I don't like Juan.

BTW when I respond to a query I do so as a professional interpreter/translator living in Tijuana. That's what I do for a living and I have the credentials to prove it. Does that mean I never make a mistake? No it doesn't. It does mean however that I'm not answering off the top of my head.

Reytj,

Does that mean you're answering off the bottom of your head?

"Chino Loco" now what kind of weirdo would end up being called that?

Some minor corrections,

"ir a..." as in in "voy a..." "I'm going to..."

is always used with the infinative form of the verb.

so if your novia was going to say "I'm going to die"

it would be "voy a morir". You would not conjugate the verb.

Gustar is a verb that is almost always used in the third person.

If you wanted to say "I like Maria" using the verb gustar you would say "me gusta a Maria". What you are actually saying loosely is "to me Maria pleases" or in better english "Maria pleases me=I like Maria"

You would not say "me gustas a maria".

Remember that in spanish like in english songs are not always writen using correct grammer.

Sometimes a lyric will flow better when correct grammer is not used. I personally like listening to spanish music and think that it really helps your ability to learn the language.

However if you want to speak grammatically correct you should get a book on learning to speak spanish and pay close attention to the sections on grammer. Many words are used in a unique or unorthodox manner.

However, it isn't necessary to speak grammatically correct spanihs to communicate effectively. Just like many americans don't speak grammatically correct english but have no problem communicating.

ReyTJ, thank you for your input. I was not relying on my little friend. I had another friend who is a mexican explain the difference between these statements. It was not "off the top of my head". I also live in Tijuana if that means anything. Your translation I'm sure is more correct and proper. And living in Mexico I'm also sure that you are aware that COMMON usage of words and phrases is very often different than PROPER usage.

Bigbadblkwolf, If you were talking to a third person about Maria your example is perfect. If you are talking TO Maria, "Me gustas" is acceptable and common.

Bigbadwolf,
You say: "If you wanted to say "I like Maria" using the verb gustar you would say "me gusta a Maria".

Why wouldn't you say, "Me gusta Maria"? Why the "a"?

Abuelo, In spanish when you are referring to a person, it is correct to use the "a". You don't use it when referring to things. This does not translate directly into English and is something I still forget to do.

Thanks, cf/ja! Glad to learn something new.

Why is the 'a' in 'me gusta a Maria'?

Wouldn't

'a mi, me gusta Maria'

or just

'me gusta Maria'

be correct? Not that I am any expert in this language.

Actually, I think Explorer is correct. You do use a personal "a" when the object of the verb is a person or animal.

Visité a Reytj in TJ.

However, in the gustarle example we have been discussing María is not the object of the verb, she is the subject.

me gusta Maria = Maria is pleasing to me.


I´m no expert either, but I have been studying grammar at a college level for the last 3 years.

Nero, you out there? Can you add insight to this personal "a" question?

I did some checking and you are correct....

In ....me gusta maria

We wouldn't use the personal "a".

I'm glad that we are here to help each out

OK...I looked in my spanish grammar book.
"When the object of the verb (except TENER) is a definite person or persons, it is preceded by "a", which is not translated. It is not used, however, if a number precedes the object".

Makes sense to me.....NOT!!

But I learned a long time ago not to make word for word translations in spanish...screw you up every time. You guys seem to be hung up on "caer bien"....word for word its like fall well...which makes no sense......but actually an idiomic expression that means "to get along well"

Mike

My technique is not to understand the grammar, but to listen to the locals to get to the point that things either sound right when I say them, or they sound wrong. I notice that a lot of gringos go down to TJ, and talk to the chicas, but don't listen to what the chicas say back.

Hell, I not only listen to what las chicas say back, I always ask mi amigas to correct my Spanish, if I say things incorrectly.

I've only done this with a couple of chicas. Two reasons. One, I trust the education of these two gals, thus I know that they are teaching me 'correct' Spanish. The second reason is that for una chica to feel comfortable correcting you, they have to have trust in you first.


StrikeEagle

WF;

Yes... 75% of the Mexican people were "happy" with the attacks. Mostly the uneducated or commie types - but it was still "uncool".

There is some asshole that has been having an "Osama Bin Laden" beer special in my neighborhood in TJ. What a fucking fool. I'll try to remember to take a picture of it, if any of you don't believe me.

Also, for you unbelievers, just go to the Mexican spanish-speaking chat rooms - and you can see for yourself what many of these assholes REALLY think.

I know you folks don't want to believe me - but it is true.

It has been hard for even me to believe how many of them have reacted in such an "evil" manner to the 9/11 incident. Very sad.

Can anyone recommend the site of all sites for buying books in Spanish? I don't mean books about Spanish, I mean in Spanish. I would have thought Amazon.com would have had a Spanish cousin, but I can't find it. My search gets me many sites with some books, but I want one site that has everything.

Thanks...

How about "drop yo drawers and on all fours bitch!"

I don't know that one but
"Callete y encuerete y a la cama rapida"
(Caw'-yah-tay ee ehn-cwair'-eh-te y ah lah cah'-mah rah'-pee-dah)
means shut up, get naked, and (go) to the bed rapidly.

Pauncho

Anyone out there bold enough to explain the usage of the subjunctive tense? What does the language gain by this tense?

There's an excellent on-line resource for studying Spanish with a good explanation of use of the subjunctive mood. The introduction to subjunctive is found at:

http://www.studyspanish.com/lessons/subj1.htm.

From there, you can go to the index by erasing the last part (subj1.htm), and see the rest of the material on subjunctive as well as other lessons. Best of all, it's free! Check it out.

"I wish that you be at AB at 8pm"

That's the subjunctive - it sounds overly fancy in English, unless its Ebonics:

"you be happy".

TG,

Great site. Where do you find this stuff?

I’ve noticed a lot more hombres learning Spanish. It’s the best advice I can give if going to C.R. or another Latin county.

Thanks,


HC1

HCI, actually that particular link came from right here, originally posted by Redongo (the psot appears in Archive 1). Skimming over the old posts, I also discovered one of my earlier posts that I think is worthy of re-posting since so few people have time to search the archives, so here is is:

For basic texts, I have two favorites - Berlitz Essential Spanish (ISBN 2-8315-5718-6) and Living Languages Ultimate Spanish (ISBN 0-609-80247-X). Both books are excellent and are readily available at Barnes & Noble and Borders or on-line through Amazon.com.

At 260 pages, the Berlitz book is much briefer but is very-well organized and is amazingly comprehensive given its size. I loaned my copy to one of my Costa Rican friends who teaches Spanish and he likes it so much he's planning to use it as a text for his beginning students.

The Living Languages book is about 400 pages, and is available in three editions - text only, text and audio cassettes, or text and audio CDs. Buying the versions with the audio will certainly help with both listening and pronunciation, but there are disadvantages as well. First, they cost much more. Secondly, it may consciously or unconsciously limit your study opportunities to times when it's convenient to use your audio playback device. Thirdly, it's a pain in the ass to use cassettes with language programs because of the importance of repetition and review. The constant necessity of rewinding and finding the correct starting point will drive you nuts. So, if you do decide to buy one of the audio versions, pay the extra for the CDs. They're much more convenient to use. One very nice feature of the CD version is that it includes two separate sets of CDs - one to use with the textbook and a separate "On the Go" set to use in the car or elsewhere when you can't study the text.

I've also tried several of the computer CD-Rom programs, but I don't really like any of the ones I've used so I won't make any recommendations.

Some general suggestions - First, try to set up a study plan and schedule for yourself. The biggest problem with self-study of languages is that most people lack the discipline to follow through with their study schedule. Secondly, keep a notebook or, better yet, two notebooks - one for vocabulary and useful expressions and the other for grammar. When you complete each lesson, make notes of the important learning points in your notebook. Your notes should be detailed enough that you can do your review and study from your notebook without referring back to the text. Third, complete all of the exercises and activities in the textbook. Some of them seem repetitious and unnecessary but practice and repetition are the keys to learning a language.

There are four basic skills you need to master to learn a language - listening, speaking, reading and writing. Give some effort to all four skills, although the conversational skills are more important at the early stages and should receive the most attention.

Learn the pronunciation rules early in your studies. Spanish pronunciation, unlike English, follows very regular rules and it isn't difficult to learn how to pronounce the sounds or word stress patterns. Your pronunciation doesn't need to be perfect but it does need to be understandable, so make the effort to learn the rules and try to pronounce correctly. Both of the books I recommended have excellent, but different, approaches to teaching pronunciation. The Living Languages book focuses on Latin American pronunciation while the Berlitz book focuses on European Spanish, although it notes the differences in the introductory section of the book. Don't get hung up on this. There aren't that many differences and it's easy to learn them, so the Berlitz book is still an excellent choice for studying Latin American Spanish pronunciation.

If you have an opportunity to take live classes, do it. Self-study may seem quicker and more convenient but it's actually much more difficult. Usually regular college-level Spanish courses are better than the adult education Conversational Spanish courses, primarily because the adult ed classes seem to attract too many students who aren't serious enough or don't have the study skills to really learn a new language. When this happens, it poisons the entire experience.

In all of the Spanish-speaking countries, including Costa Rica, there are numerous private schools offering intensive Spanish study. Most of these programs are excellent but they are quite expensive. Do your research and check their references before deciding to enroll in a program.

Above all, once you start learning Spanish, use it as much as possible. Don't worry about making mistakes or getting into a conversation that may rapidly escalate beyond your abilities. All mistakes will be forgiven and most people will be patient and appreciative of your efforts. Even learning a few basic phrases from a phrasebook will go a long way towards bridging the culture/language gap when you visit a Spanish-speaking country. Be creative. If you don't know how to say something, try to find another way to get the idea across. For example, early in my stay here I had a flat tire. The lugbolts were too tight and my lug wrench wouldn't break them loose, so I needed a cross-handle wrench. My Spanish was still very basic and I had no idea how to ask for a lugwrench and the hardware store but I got my point across with my first effort. "Necesito la cosa cambiar mi llanta" (making a hand gesture of using a cross-handle wrench). The translation is "I need a thing to change my tire". I got just what I needed.

When you are first trying to have real conversations in Spanish, don't worry too much about the fine points of grammar and vocabulary. The important thing is to communicate. Your vocabulary and usage will improve rapidly once you begin to use the language for actual communication.

Buena Suerte,
TG

YT,

An explanation of the subjunctive could fill volumes. My 2nd year college course was 50% directed to the subjunctive. My 3rd year course was probably a little less. The explanation in "Breaking Out of Beginner's Spanish" is a good enough starting point.

Also the subjunctive is not a tense, it is a mood. A primary use is in dependent clauses that are introduced by a WIERDO Indpendent clause and there is a change of subject between the clauses.

W = Will
I = Influence
E = Emotion
R = Regret
D = Denial
O = Opinion

Te digo que no vayas a Rio sin mí.
Quiero que me mandes fotos de todos de tus chicas.
Estoy triste que vayas a Rio sin mí.
Lamento que no podamos viajar tan mucho como queremos.
Nego que yo haya gastado todo de mi dinero en Tijuana y por eso no puedo ir a Rio.
Es posible que yo vaya a Rio en Augosto.

Basically the subjunctive is a mood to convey emotion, influence, and doubt. Notice that formal commands take the subjunctive form. There is a present and past tense subjunctive, but no future. The present is used for the future. It brings Spanish into full color, anything else is merely black and white. Most of all you use it to express what you hope for.

que tengas buen viaje,
tu amigo,
Gitano

Here is a site that I like that can be drilled to further explain the subjunctive.

http://college.hmco.com/languages/spanish/caycedo/fuentes/2e/students/index.html


G

TG,

More great info-what a wealth of info this site can be.

I’m lucky because my mom is from Spain. She moved to the US, married my dad and I grew up speaking Spanish with her and English with my dad. I also took Spanish in high school and college (big surprise).

The biggest mistake I hear is pronunciation. A lot of hombres have practiced vocabulary and verbs and can get sentences out, but are pronouncing the words as though they were in English. It’s hard to practice this-some pick it up, but others always have a hard time with it.

Gitano-describing the subjunctive as a mood is great way to put it. In Spanish class, they teach you that when using “quiero que” or “es posible que” that it triggers the subjunctive so you should memorize those phrases and use subjunctive. The textbooks have the fill in the blank which tries to train you to use it. I disagree with teaching it this way because it ends up making you think about how to say something and it slows you down. When I’m speaking Spanish, I find when I’m thinking about influence, emotion, etc..that my thought is in the subjunctive form of the verb first, not the trigger. For example-if I want to say “I want you go come”, my first thought is “venga”, not “quiero que”.

Pura Vida,

HC1

"The biggest mistake I hear is pronunciation. A lot of hombres have practiced vocabulary and verbs and can get sentences out, but are pronouncing the words as though they were in English. It?s hard to practice this-some pick it up, but others always have a hard time with it."

When I was in college I took one Spanish course - my first foreign language course. I found that people with 3-4 years of Spanish from high school could read/write much better than me, but none of them could SPEAK the language.

I'm currently studying the Pimsleur audio courses, and that's what I like most about them - VERY heavy on pronunciation. I don't see how I'd ever get that out of a book. There's no subtitute for hearing and speaking the sounds a thousand times.

Mis Amigos - thanks for the pointers. I always enjoy following this thread; great stuff.

Gitano - have a great trip to CR. Estoy seguro de que vayas conmigo a Rio en Augosto.

If anyone has DISH network.....they offer good spanish lessons every day for all levels.

I personally had to take a foreign language in college and I chose spanish cause I thought it was the easiest.....Now I think that English is easier.

Subjunctives are what gives spanish its beauty and expressiveness, and are a required part of the language. They have virtually disappeared in English except for a few verbs (i.e. TO BE), and the best example I can give you in English are phrases like, "IF I WERE A RICH MAN" (Something contrary to fact) or "IF I WERE YOU" (Something impossible). These are past subjunctives and notice that IF I WAS RICH MAN or IF I WAS YOU are incorrect.

Present subjunctive express something that is problematic in the future...like a desire or wish...something that may or may not happen.

Mike

You must use the language as much as possible in conversation. I use books quite a bit but I call the novia almost every day and practice too.

With the tapes, I like living language too. Pimsleur has a funny accent (more Spain the country Gra-THEE-as) so in South America it sounds odd.

I recommend getting Rick Steve's Latin American Spanish for Travellers for beginners. It has a lot of standard phrases and is pocket sized.

501 Spanish verbs is a must have book.

Also, check used book stores for books on Spanish. I recently got several Berlitz books from the early 60s that I think are better than the Berlitz books today.

Chao

While we're sharing, try this link...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/1960/

It has pages of Spanish variations and local slang for different countries.

Watch how the locals react when you use a phrase that's truly local!

Everyone badmouths the poor translations produced by the on-line English-Spanish translators such as AltaVista Babblefish, etc., but sometimes you may need to use them. Following are some tips for getting the best results.

I recently received the following e-mail from one of the board members asking for help writing a letter in Spanish: Hi, I have a buddy of mine coming down with me to CR at the end of this month and he is interested in a GFE experience. He has been to CR once and had a bad experience with a greedy Tica and wants to convey what he is looking for to them in writing. I see that you live in CR and wanted to know if I could send you his (less than half a page) note for the girls and have it translated. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks a lot.

My response is as follows: Learning to communicate in Spanish will certainly help you and your friend enjoy your visits to CR and to other Spanish-speaking countries. I’m really not interested in being anyone’s personal translator but, within reason, I’m more than willing to give general advice and assistance. Accordingly, here’s my suggestion to you and to other members with similar needs:

Try using a few of the free on-line English-Spanish translators. None of them are great, but they can produce acceptable results. Here's a list: http://spanish.about.com/cs/onlinetranslation/. Machine translators are stupid, so if you want a good translation, you have to be smarter than they are. Remember the First Law of Computing: GIGO (garbage in – garbage out), and the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid).

What I mean by this is that you need to write in clear, unambiguous, simple, standard English and keep it simple and direct. None of the machine translators will recognize idioms and expressions and will often produce comical results. So, avoid using any type of idioms and expressions that can’t be literally translated. Also, try to write in active voice, using simple tenses when possible. Passive voice constructions may translate, but often are very awkward and confusing to Spanish readers because they don’t use the passive voice as much as we do in English.

Most of the machine translators will handle progressive and perfect tense verb translations. However, you need to review the translation. If there are a lot of complex verb conjugations, you’re going to have a hard time checking the translation. Some of you may not have a clue what I’m talking about (active/passive voice? progressive/perfect tense verbs?). That’s okay – all I’m saying is to write in clear, simple, standard English!

Before attempting the translation, re-read what you’ve written in English to be sure it is clear, simple and grammatically correct. Once you’ve done this and made necessary revisions, try translating it with two or more of the on-line translation programs. Compare the translations. Differences in the translations may be indicators of ambiguities or problems with your English text, but not necessarily. Read over the Spanish versions (with the assistance of an English-Spanish dictionary, if necessary). Choose the one that seems most accurate. If parts still seem incorrect or unclear, try to think of another, simpler way to express the same thought in English. Revise your English version of the text and translate it again. You may need to do this more than once.

There’s a learning curve to using these programs, but with some time and effort you can get reasonable results. When you have a translation you think is correct, consider posting it here on the board – both in English and in the translated Spanish version. Most likely, one of us will give you more advice if it still needs work.

Buena Suerte,
TG

There is a Discus topic specifically targeted for help with translations. Refer them there:

Off-Topic: Foreign Languages: -Translation Assistance

"501 Verbs" points out fourteen (14) different cases where the use of the present subjunctive is indicated.

It's quite complicated.

Concerning the Subjunctive, most people don't know how to use it in English, let alone Spanish.

As for how to learn Spanish, my technique is to listen to the chicas. They have some expertise in this field, so stop talking and listen.

I flunked Spanish 101 in college, but I can get by now, thanks to listening. Of course, I can't spell worth a damn in Spanish.

Bonvvnt, I understand your comment "Pimsleur has a funny accent (more Spain the country Gra-THEE-as) so in South America it sounds odd" and agree it would be nice if they used native speakers from the part of the world we're interested in. But my primary object this early on is to be able to communicate. I don't expect I'll ever speak like a native, and I'm ok with that. Think about it - do you really expect to hear a Chinese immigrant talk like a native New Yorker?

HaHA..

In Spain...they speak that faggot spanish....cinco becomes 'thinko'...and they use alot of 'th' lispy sounds when they talk.

The security guard at the El Presidente in CR...he would say 'buenos diaths' instead of buenos dias...kinda of hard to follow.

I had a spanish instructor from Spain...I got real tired of listening to that lispy stuff.

But I noticed in CR that 'vaya' becomes 'vayja', which is their local accent there.

I provide this totally useless information as a comment to the previous post.

Mike

Well, whatever I'm getting out of the Pimsleur tapes, it must reasonably close. I was in Nogales Sat night and spoke to a couple of natives about pronunciation. They all seemed to think I was doing fine. That's good enough for me.

Although the pronunciation of "y" & "ll" (about the same ?) vary throughout latin america, it helps to "stick your tongue out" a little until you hear some sibilance.

At the extreme, I can't distinguish it from an english "J" sound.

Pauncho

For learning the basics ANY good Spanish tapes will do.

For me, I know I will be living in Colombia so I practice Colombian Spanish. A 'y' becomes a 'j' sound and I try to use Colombian phrases too.

Personal preference.

Would you rather sound like an educated person from the mid-West, a New Yorker or someone from Arkansas?

In the state of Puebla, "ll" is pronounced as if it were a "j". So is "y" for that matter.

So, "Yo voy alla" becomes "Jo voy aja".

Coger in Spain but not in Argentina fellas....

I learned Spanish in Madrid where it's very common to use the verb "coger" all day long as in "Te cogo manana muy temprano" as in "I'll catch you tomorrow very early," or "Voy a coger el autobus en la Plaza Mayor" as in "I'll catch the bus at the Plaza Mayor." Well fellas, the Argentineans take "coger" to mean the street term for "to fuck" so be careful. I was chatting with Gabriela, an edible receptionist at my BA hotel last year and she was telling me a funny story about how there was a Spanish family staying at the hotel one week and every morning on their way out they'd look at Gabriela and tell her "Te cogemos luego, Gabriela" and of course she knew they weren't trying to tell her they'd fuck her later but she said she cringed everytime they said it anyway.

I've also been told that due to the same logic the Argentineans shy away from the use of the very common Spanish verb "escoger" as in "to choose because it contains that same "coger". So remember fellas, depending on where you're practicing your textbook Spanish you might not always be saying what you think you are but remember that the only way to really get conversational is to practice, practice, practice. Buena suerte a todos los miembros de CH quienes estan estudiando para poder hablar con las chicas en espanol!! DownBA

British people staying in a hotel might ask you to come by and "knock them up" in the morning. I think most people in the US would quickly figure out they're not asking you to come by and get them pregnant. ;) You can't buy a "fag" in the stores here either - just cigarettes. Funny how languages evolve over time.

'evolves' or 'devolves'?

The COGER comments above are good for ALL of South America as far as I know, not just Argentina.

Also, In Colombia you'll hear 'mamada' used to express boredom or being tired of something as opposed to just meaning a blowjob.

Regionalization DOES make a difference.

In Barcelona they didn't immediately understand "coger", they say "follar". Also, "pussy", which is often "panocha" in Latin America is often "conejo" (rabbit) there.

In another part of this board, a monger said
"Ranchera bajada del cerro a tamborazos" means country bumpkin.

My contribution;
"Te veo la insignia dorada con la letra "P" means:
("P" for PUTA)

(in older English) You wear the "scarlet letter".

(modern) You've got "WHORE" written all over your face (You look like a whore to me).

Courtesy of ENLACE (The spanish San Diego Union-Tribune supplement)

I gratefully accept corrections and clarifications - Thanks.

I haven't had a chance to use these yet...