When I look back at my life (not that far, I'm only 38), the most happy moments are those spent with my friends mongering throughout the world.

Ten years ago I went on my first trip to Rio and unknowingly found the fountain of youth. Since that first trip, I've been back to Rio 3 times, Thailand, Amsterdam, Germany, UK, Costa Rica, Mexico, Czech Republic, Russia, and Spain.

While all have their qualities, there is no better place than Brazil.

I have given up on love since it always sours as does the sex with the girl we fell in love with. American women are fat, ugly, and constantly looking at your wallet. Enough is enough.

I currently in the process of consolidation of my assets and money to understand what is it going to take to be a full time mongerer.

In two short years, I will be teaching English to Cariocas during the day to pay my food/rent/transportation and using my savings to monger a few times a week for the next 50 years.

If I have to move on to another destination every few years, I'll do it. I have a friend who moved full time to Costa Rica and teaches computers to kids for the past 5 years. His investments sustain his lifestyle and he mongers regularly. He's my hero.

I'm looking for those who are thinking the same as I am.

A regular part time job overseas really can make this dream a possibility for many out there.

Who's with me?

McClapp
Shit now you're becoming my hero.
What makes you think, you can get a job as teacher in Brasil as there are many teachers want to be?
How much do you think it takes in assets to quit the labor force?
My feeling is you need around $1M in cash to give up work to live in Brasil.
Are you allowed to live there full time, i thought you needed a permanent visa to do that?

McClapp



I am in the same situation as you although I only discovered the delights of our hobby less than 5 years ago and at an older age than you as I am now 46. I am from the UK and have hobbied in Spain, Czech Republic and Germany in Europe and Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia, in Asia as well as having one great trip to Rio. I have a great, well paid job, that is secure, a good partner, but now I realise this and everything else the rat race offers is not for me, discovering our hobby just made this 1000 times worse. Yes, it’s a tough call to give all this up for an unknown future, but hell you only live once and life is a risk. Now my kids are grown up, the maintenance has finished, I can make the break, it has taken a little while to get have the balls to make it, but hopefully I am nearly there.

I have been looking at my assets and seeing how I can best pull them together to give an income, that at worse can sustain the basics of living - food, housing for example or at best allow me to live a reasonable lifestyle without working at all. I also have to consider extracting myself from a relationship and deal with the difficulties that this entails. My plan is to stop working in early to mid 2006 and take my company pension early at age 50 (the earliest you can in the UK).


My original thoughts were to retire to Thailand where I estimate the costs to maintain the basics of life of around Baht 50-60,000 per month. That is taking into account good accommodation and all utilities, phone, internet, laundry, food, transport, gym, medical and costs of Visa runs. I have not included booze, entertainment, flights home or hobbying costs in this. This could be reduced if you chose to live in lesser accommodation. I have also assumed eating local food most of the time. In addition I have budgeted for hobbying based on 7-10 sessions a week. Overall I think you could live well on $2-3,000 dollars per month in LOS, including hobbying at the levels mentioned above. I would appreciate anyone else’s comments on this.

In terms of jobs I have found this difficult having only come up with two options teaching English or diving instruction. The former seems to pay around Baht 20-30,000 baht for a pretty full week, which is not very much for the precious hours you lose, the latter for me would be more enjoyable as I get to do something I like and get paid, but again the money is not great. I have no other suggestions on employment, again if anyone else has any input it would be welcome.

Since visiting Rio, I have upped my ambitions as I could not see myself not visiting there, so I am looking to see if I can to split my time between Thailand and Rio. I am just starting my research on the cost of living there, so would appreciate any input on this subject.

There are a few problems I still have to consider, like where and how to invest my assets to give me the income I require and how to deal with movements in exchange and interest rates, which could affect my income greatly.

If anyone wants to swop notes or go in to more detail on my estimates I am more than happy to share them and moderate them in line with other experiences.

Athos,

I have ran the numbers, actually about $800K will do it. At 5.75%, which is what many bond/bond funds are paying now, I am looking at around $46K per year without dipping into principal.

As far as teaching English, there is a worldwide shortage of those who teach English with the proper education. Some poeople who go for teaching jobs are just coming out of school with a Bachelors degree and a TOEFL certificate.

I have an MBA from a fairly prestigious university in California, I have teaching experience, I also have been in upper level management for a long time in Silicon Valley. I made a simple inquiry about a month ago to a few schools in Brazil and I receive frequent correspondence from companies that will sponsor me for a work Visa. They need people who business people wanting to learn English will respect, a 20-something is not it.

The downside is that the pay is about $500 US a month. That will cover an apartment, food, and basic transportation. I then basically have about $46K per year to be used for everything else.

Now I've done a lot of thinking about money management and have done a large amount of research.

1. Money-Keep it in a US bank in dollars...No exceptions. Only keep the wages you make in Brazil in a Brazilian bank. Do not break this rule! The absolute best bank for ExPats is Citibank. They are all over Central and South America. They will take foreign deposits and convert them to dollars at a competitive exchange rate. When you need a few extra Reis, go to a Citibank ATM and the charge to you is $1.50 US for a overseas withdraw. If it is a special account for ExPats, then the fee is waived in your home country.

2. Job-I covered the teaching English situation earlier. But I have one point. Get a TOEFL certificate from Oxford. It is the most prestigous out there and will open doors to teach English all over the world. It is the most rigourous and will take about 6 months to complete. Don't try to go the easy route and get the 6 week TOEFL certificate. Most certificate programs have lifetime placement for their graduates. Remember, you are just trying to make a living wage, not break the bank. As long as your earnings cover your expenses, you are golden.

By the way, if you have a profession that is sorely needed overseas, then use it. With a small investment of $100K (not too small as you see), you can open up a business in Brazil and get an automatic Visa. Brazil wants to attract businesses they don't have too much of. By the way you can also start something in the travel industry fairly easy and as long as you employ 2 Brazilians in the business, you will be open for a Visa.

Lastly, I have a few friends that live in Brazil and did so by just going into Brazil on a tourist Visa, and extended the visa for another 90 days. About half way through the Visa he goes into the immigration offices and asks what the fee is to get a residency card. Brazilians don't make much money, you will get the Visa fairly easily if you don't outwardly bribe the person.

3. Investments-This is a tough one. Stay away from direct stock purchases as you will be inclined to sell at the wrong time to protect your stake. I found that municipal bonds (in California) can pay up to 5.75% tax free (federal and state). They are backed by the full taxing authority of the state of California. Good enough for me. These are basically safe.

Also there is a Real Estate Investment Trust out there (CNL PROPERTIES) that is paying 7.1% dividend and hasn't missed a dividend in 25 years. Not a bad mongering wage.

Now if you don't mind taking a little more risk, you can go into index funds or specialty funds. I do a lot of this to make ground on my investments while I work. I have a diversified portfolio of about 70% stock funds 20% bond funds, and 10% cash. I'm making about 8-10% on my money right now.

I should mention that if you have all your money at an online brokerage like Schwab/Etrade etc. you can manage your money from anywhere. You just need to make sure that your Citibank account is able to take deposits from your brokerage account. Fortunately I've done the research for you and it can. No problem.

Once a quarter (during dividend season) you deposit your earnings into your Citibank account. NEVER dip into principal until you are sure you won't outlast your money.

4. Health-Buy private insurance in Brazil/Thailand as well as in your home country. This is important because the basic healthcare available in those countries is poor unless you have private insurance, then it actually is fairly good. The reason for health insurance in your home country is that I anticipate that I will come back to the US from time-to-time for a yearly checkup. In Brazil, that would probably cost you about $300-$400 Reis, in the US thats about $3500. I don't know, it just seems that is being safe. I know that isn't totally needed and dips into savings. If you are a UK or Canadian citizen, forget the private insurance in your home country, your existing coverage is adequate.

5. Friendships-Now this is the area that I am most stressed about. I have a lifetime of friends in the US that don't share my dream. A matter of fact, only one does and he is backing down from the dream. He is too addicted to his Porche and his 3000 square foot home. I, on the other hand, know that my life is a series of events and memories. I can't ignore the best times of my life for a sports car. Just can't do it.

So my biggest fear is that I'll be in Brazil, teaching English, and will not have people that will be consistently around to share experiences with. A good example of this is...have you ever been on a mongering trip alone? I have, its not nearly as fun as going to dinner with friends after visiting a Terma and sharing war stories. I can't replace that.

That is the main reason I am reaching out here. I know everyone on this site is here for the same reason I am. So I hope if I share my knowlege and ideas, that it will resonate with others and we can create a community of such.

In otherwords, I don't want to do this alone if I don't have to.

Please comment. I like the interaction.

I read Wickeds post a little closer. I actually know people who live quite comfortably in Bangkok for about $1000 a month and he mongers about 1-2 times a week.

$2-$3000 you would be living like a king.

The biggest thing for me is that I can't monger 24x7, I need to work to keep my sanity. A 30-40 hour week doing something normal is done to keep me sane more than make money.

But I think if you can focus on just covering living expenses with a job, you can monger more than your fair share on $2K per month. Just about anywhere on earth.

Just scale back your expectations a bit on where you live. My only rule is it has to be clean and safe. I don't want to live in a shithole.

That is possible in Thailand for about $250 month. Thats pretty cheap. As long as you are not going to the restaurant everyday, food is cheap also. The problem is many full time mongerers live like they are on vacation. That lifestyle will break you no matter where you are.

Also, I think mongering 7-10 times a week sounds great now but it isn't sustainable.

I was an ExPat in Russia for 1 year. During the first year I mongered everyday. By the end of the year, I did it once or twice a week. I also made a point to pickup a "Girlfriend" while I was there. She understood what here role was and all I had to do is take her out a couple of times a week to a basic meal or movie.

This will happen in Thailand for you as well. Set real expectations otherwise you will be the guy they see at the Terma everyday.

Also you will find that if you are a regular, the prices you pay will go down. Your favorites will know you by name and will often not charge at all just because they want something familiar.

Just my thoughts.

Mclapp, kind of amusing reading your turnabout. I met you a few years back and you were in Rio for you final fling before getting serious with your gf. Always heartening to hear somebody snap out of it.

Rather than trying to find a job to sustain your mongering habits...why not buy a bar/cantina/restaurant/resort on the beach and sell sex to the world-wide mongerer?

Somebody is doing this...why can't we?

I'm just brainstorming here...but if a group of guys...say 5 guys pooled together $160K each for a total of $800K...collectively we could buy/build a $4M mongering resort/club with 20% down....may not even require that much capital.

AlecJamer

Stayaway, glad to bump into you.

I unfortunately didn't snap out of it in time. I married that girl and still am married, but soon divorcing.

I fortunately had the foresight to get a Prenup agreement.

Since marriage, I have been to Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Finland fulfilling mongering activities. So much for wedded bliss.

As far as starting a business for mongers, I am currently self employed. I find that being self employed takes more time than if I had a meaningless job that I can do in my sleep.

All I need is a few good friends to hang with and I'd be happy.

When you start a business overseas that infringes in others of the same type (i.e. a Terma), you might find yourself behind the 8-ball with local authorities, even if you don't break the law. Countries often look more closely at mongering if non-locals are not bringing in the money.

Plus, do I really want to worry about the personal lives of hookers? If you employ them, thats what I am buying into. Sure some are cool, but how many screwed up ones are there?

Now a place like Blue Marlin in Cost Rica might be OK. Mongerers come there and drink and you are not breaking any laws or getting involved with them. You are just providing a venue.

I don't know if I need the stress, but I've certainly looked a little into it a little.

BTW AlecJamer, I enjoy your Panama posts. I'll be there in February.

Stayaway, I'm trying to figure out who you are (sorry, I've been to Rio a few times). Are you from the Bay Area? If you are, I know who you are. Shoot me an email anytime mhclapp@hotmail.com.

mclapp, it was through another forum that we met, before clubhombre. I had dinner with you and two of your friends(the ex-jhead and the MD) at Girl from Ipanema. If you still don't remember me, well shit, I don't leave much of an impression, do I? Good luck, see you in Rio. I'll be there shortly.

If you know you will be living in a foreign country for a long period of time, it is smart to have some deposits in that currency. This is a good hedge.

For example, you calculate all your plans... and then five years from now the Real trades at only R1.5 per USD - now your US$ savings have depreciated in terms of your daily/monthly spending needs.

I know exactly who you are. You had a job that had something to do with horseracing if I recall.

Hope to see you in Rio!

FLhobbyer.

Not a bad tip. It certainly would make certain transactions easier while living overseas.

I would keep the deposits fairly low in relation to your overall net worth,since the fluctuation in the Real against the dollar, the dollar generally is more stable. I know the dollar isn't that great now but if you were to look at the history against the Real, you are better off in dollars.

Also Latin countries have a history of getting rid of their currency in favor of the "new and approved" currency.

If I look at it at a macro level, the cost of living is probably going to be a lot lower (in general) in Rio than it is in LA. So barring massive fluctuations of the dollar, you will probably be ok.

One thought I didn't put before is that there are other places in Brazil that are very good and even cheaper to live in.

For instance, I really enjoyed a trip I took to Recife. Its probably about 25% cheaper than Rio in terms of living expenses and hobbying.

If you like Thailand, Pattaya and Phuket are cheaper than Bangkok. I'm not sure I could live there, but I know that this is paridise for some.

Anyway just thoughts. I'm beginning to love this thread. Keep it coming. I constantly research this subject because I am dead serious about doing this.

A great source of information for this is www.escapeartist.com and if you want to teach English, just search TOEFL on Google and you'll get a bunch of sites on how to work overseas. Just remember, the better the program, the easier it will be to find a high paying (relatively) gig. Oxford is the best and they have extension campuses all over the US and Canada. That extra $200 a month doesn't buy much companionship but it does help pay for the utilities and food.

Mclapp:

You might want to consider a "Platinum American Express" card. I know they are pricey, but there is one advantage with these cards you get nowhere else.

The advantage is overseas health coverage. If you are traveling (of course you are traveling permanently), they will forgive your hospital bills when you pay with the AE card. If you are really sick, they will even charter a jet to come a get you. Back in the USA, your regular health insurance kicks in when you get back.

Good luck buddy.

MM

McLapp,

Interesting that you should pic the Blue Marlin/Del Rey in Costa Rica for your example. It is Gringo owned as is the Key Largo around the corner, Also they have moved the resteraunt out of the Del Rey. It is now across the street attached to the Key Largo. The resteraunt is 24 hours but the Key Largo is only open in the evenings.

Val

McClapp
Thanks for posting all this thorough info, I really appreciate all the thinking that went into it.
I'd like to retire when I hit 50, 800k I came up with the same ballpark figure myself for Brasil.
You have not mentioned US and brasilian taxes, would you put all your money in municipal bonds in the US? I guess stocks and bonds in retirement accounts but you still get taxed when you start withdrawing from 401k.
You have to pay taxes in brasil if you work or from bank returns. Even if you didn't work, you still would have to file tax return to maintain your cpf number, otherwise it will get frozen, i read that somewhere, i don't have a cpf myself.
About Rio, why retire there? Have you thought about living in medium size city instead? You can always do rio and sp runs several times a year. I am like you I don't buy stuff any more.
How about the toefl thing, I took it long time ago from abroad to be admitted into US universities. Is that the same thing?

Mclapp

Thanks for the information, excellent stuff. One question, is it true you can get a Brazilian visa if you can show an income of $2,000 per month?

MM-Great suggestion, didn't know about that. Health insurance is one of my biggest concerns so this is timely. I think the rewards options on that card are good as well.

Val-I've only been to Costa Rica once and liked it but not really as much as Rio (not even close actually) but it seems to me that owning a place like Key Largo or Blue Marlin seems to be the best way to own a "legit" business yet profit off of the hobby. I think my thoughts on ownership remain the same (for me) is that I am looking for less stress in my life, owning something I have to watch might not be good for my mental health. However I am a little on the fence on this one time-to-time.

Athos-I went back and validated some of my earnings estimates and I think I may overstated a bit. Muni bonds in California are currently paying less than 4%. So I'll need to find something else. Thats OK I can do that.

As far as taxes. The income earned from investments is not "earned" income it is passive. It is subject to Federal taxation. Your residency is outside the US so there is no state tax (good if you are from California). You also don't pay disability and social security tax on "passive" income. The first $60K of income overseas is not subject to US tax, only tax from Brazil (or wherever you are). So you are correct, you can't get away from US taxes unless you give up citizenship. No matter where you live, that US passport is important. Don't give it up. I'm expecting I am going to need $800K to earn enough interest/dividends/growth that after tax income is going to be ok to live on.

As far as the TOEFL certificate, it is a certificate to teach English as a second language. If you got it to teach ESL in the states, I believe it is the same thing. I would go to www.toefl.com to see for sure. I don't have it now so I've not really looked into what else you can do with it.

Wicked-You are correct on the $2000/month requirement except it is important where that money comes from. The $2000 must be from a pension or from social security (or similar social program from your country). In other words, it can't be from an insurance company anuity or from your IRA/401K. That knocks a lot of us out.

In addition, there are some other requirements including I believe health insurance and a few other items. They basically are looking for retirees with this. I tried to get around it by using an Insurance anuity and they wouldn't take it. Most important is that you need to deposit that $2000 a month in a Brazilian bank in Reals to qualify.

By the way, you can also petition for residency when you are in the country on a tourist visa.

There is this German guy I met in Brazil last time I was there that told me that Brazil often grants amnesty to those who are long term residents there illegally or who are persistent. It is best that this is done while in country rather than from your desk at home. I don't know too much about this.

No disrespect dude, but it sounds to me like you're making a major life decision based on some fond memories from your 20's and some romantic notions about a country from your experiences there as a tourist. Experiences not likely to be duplicated once you're an expat. I'm no shrink or Dr. Phil but I believe we tend to take our "issues" wherever we go. Talk to a friend about this or even better, talk to a neutral party, like a counselor/therapist. Are you leaving because you want to escape from something, or trying to relive a past experience, etc. etc. Don't let the shrink fool you into going more times than you need, probably just 2-4 sessions is enough to give you additional insight into yourself so you can go forward and make a decision.

On the more practical tip:
I don't know how the Brazilian visa thing works but why don't you try living there for 6 months, THEN come back to the U.S. for at least 3 months. After those 3 months, you'll be in a better position to see how you really feel about being an expat. You'll be more prepared to make a permanent decision and take that chance. But before that, I personally wouldn't.

Have to admit though, I'm becoming more and more attracted to the idea of simplifying my life myself, getting out of the corporate IT treadmill. Been looking into the ESL thing too. I live in NYC and was thinking about Teacher's College (part of Columbia). TC is prestigous and where you go if you don't want to teach to inner city kids, heh, heh ;-)

Thanks for the Oxford tip, I'll have to look into that. Please let me know if you have any scoop about Columbia TC as compared to the Oxford program, I would appreciate that. :-)

I spent a lot of time as an expat in Russia and I did a year in Rio in the 90's. I didn't really go into my background but I spent a lot of time overseas in Europe mostly as a Global IT Director.

Being an expat has its challenges, mostly isolation. But there are many expat groups that operate throughout latin america. If you stay active in them, you can meet a lot of good people. Just make sure to keep your hobby to yourself.

Two years ago I took an early package (I was fortunate to have an employment contract) and started an Insurance & Financial Services company. My trips now are purely recreational.

What I really should have said in addition to my mongering comments is that I enjoy the slower paced lifestyle and not relying on having all of the conveniences of life. I don't need that Plasma TV or the Porche, I'm OK living in a condo with a regular TV and a regular car. I want to live well and at my means. I can't do that in the US unless I move someplace like South Dakota and live like a hermit.

I guess we are all running away from something. I frankly have been married twice and found its not what its all cracked up to be. I don't know even one marriage that didn't involve MASSIVE compromise from both parties which created bitterness between them. Not one marriage I know of is truly happy. Sure they might say they are happy in a group but EVERY SINGLE TIME I have talked with people about their marriage, one of the parties would say confidentially that they just got too comfortable to leave. That sucks if you ask me.

I figure I'm here for another 40-50 years. I have to make the most of what is out there.

Frankly the only fear is that I'll be alone and bitter when I'm old. I think if I start to find others like me, we can do this together. The only companionship I need is with good/close friends. I don't mind paying for tail when I'm 70. I just don't want to fuck a 70 year old.

So, your advise is well taken and appreciated.

As far as the Oxford tip. I think you probably would be OK with just about any program but I know that Oxford has a good placement program once you pass the TOEFL test. Its also lifetime, which is really nice. I think you would be OK with either program.

That's cool, and sorry if I sounded too much like Dr. Phil, heh :-)

The thing I need to know or prove for myself is if I can really live in a different environment. It sounds like you actually have a lot of experience in this already :-) To me, the concept seems really appealing and liberating -- but maybe I'm too used to 24/7 hi-speed internet access and all the other amenities I take for granted to be able to adjust successfully.

As for marriage, heh, here's a news flash: it's never about you or your happiness. It's about the kids. Marriage is a scam perpetrated on both men and women in order to raise kids. Tough job, but someone's got to do it. :-)

I wouldn't worry too much about the loneliness thing. Keep working on the language skills. The ESL gig should help you make lots of friends - and one or two favoritas will get you acquainted with her family and friends. More than enough if you ask me, heh :-)

No problem with the advice. Its nice to see that people may identify with everything I am thinking and actually seem to care enough to voice their opinion.

No problem with high speed access even overseas. The only convenience that I won't give up is on a good Gaming PC and internet.

Very easy to come by in Brazil.

I agree with you on the kids thing. I don't have them and don't plan to. I live by the 2 V's. Viagra and Vascectomy.

Useful websites:

Citibank Expat Site:
www.citibank.com/pboe/homepage/index.htm?BT_X=1&ProspectID=885C296F8AD1403E809DE48B52785D93

Good stuff on teaching:
www.english-international.com/

By the way I've been using TOEFL throughout this discussion. Error on my part, it is TEFL. Slip of the fingers.

Expat services:
www.expatfocus.com

www.escapeartist.com

If someone were to go live in Bangkok an get involved on a small scalein the import/ export business....I am sure they could make enough money to live the dream quite comforably.

I you research it out you could basically keep your US citizen and write off all your expenses of living there and any expenses flying back and forth.

If I didn't have such a sucessful Real Estate and Mortgage business here in Florida..I would pursue it full time. I wanted to do they same thing in Costa Rica a couple of years back......but the products and opportunies in Thailand dwarf what is available in Costa Rica.

I agree, Thailand would be the easiest place to do this. Its cheap and there is a lot of activity and opportunities.

I like Bangkok as a city but I'm just not into Asian women. It would be difficult for me I think.

When I was in Bangkok, I just got a vibe that some of the women there might be there against their better wishes. It may just be my perception after reading too many articles about the area.

I just don't get that vibe from Latin American Pros. They may treat this as a job sometimes but there is "Free Will".

My business is booming as well but there is a point in life that you have enough and you can move on.

Maybe you can take on a partner and have them run the business while you travel. Just a thought.

People are driven by different things so I can't blame someone for not wanting to leave their current situation for the unknown.

Have never heard anyone say that they got a vibe from a Thai BG that she did not want to be there with you. They may be the ultimate in making you think you are special and that they would rather be with you than anyone else in the world. I will grant you I have never done a Latin American pro, but I have talked to hundreds of guys who have been with Thai girls and have never heard about the vibe you describe.

They may not be as overtly sexual as the Latin girls but they damn sure know how to make you feel like you're boyfriend material.

Its hard for me to respond to Khun without starting a large argument about Asians vs. Latinas.

I don't want to get off topic but I have been in Thailand, Brazil, Costa Rica, and I will be in Panama in February. I have been with Asians and Latins.

I believe that you either are crazy for Asians or crazy for Latinas. I don't know many who are crazy for both because they are different types.

I think guys who like Asians like petite and shy women. Guys who like Latinas like hot, passionate and firey personalities.

I personally don't see the passion in Thai women that I see in Brazilians. Yes they are sweet and treat you like they love you, but I found them to be too shy for my tastes in bed. So for me thats not a GFE.

Thats just my opinion.

Mclapp

Check out some of my new pics posted today and tell me about those "shy Asians"...

E

Mclapp,

I find GFE as a difficult term to define. I have not had many GF's who are as wild and entertaining in the sex department as Brazilian women, nor many that would look after me like a Thai girl would. So perhaps a GFE is one were the lady complains all day, tries to get you to do all the work and has a headache everytime you get frisky. In which case who the hell wants a GFE when hobbying!

E & Wicked

Point well taken.

I guess I look at the "ideal" GFE, meaning wild sex that leaves me drained at the end. Lots of passion and so forth.

Like I said before, you either like Latinas or Asians. I'm a Carioca lover. Just personal taste.

I think Brazil is what ruined me with American women. I think I can resist Thai's.

However to get back on the subject, Thailand is certainly more friendly towards my wallet than anywhere in Brazil.

I'll tell you what, maybe I'll move to Bangkok for a year and see if I can develop a deeper appreciation for Thai women.

BTW, I posted some information for those who are back door and DATY lovers in the section on Men's health that is interesting. Certainly more of a concern if you are full time mongering since your exposure to health issues is higher than normal.

Also I have a good book for everyone to look at if you want to see what it is like to live full time on the road.

I've actually corresponded with the author and he is not a hobbyist so if you feel compelled to contact him to see what it is like to live overseas, don't let on to what your intentions are. I don't think he would be amused.

His name is Paul Terhorst and he wrote a book called "Cashing in on the American Dream."

His website is at:

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Shores/5315/

I've sampled the fruits of 7 continents and liked it all. I'm partial to travel in Asia because it's often cheap and the taxi drivers are not afraid to come to a full stop at stop signs after dark.
If we are going to attempt to compress all the women of any particular culture into three initials, I'd have to say that my own experience with the ladies of Brazil was PSE while Asia is GFE. What they have most in common all over the world is the ATM experience.

Well said. I guess I enjoy PSE but I can see the draw for GFE.

As far as safety goes, Asia is for the most part safe. I think our size (if you a 6'4" 220lb American) really helps us in most parts of Asia.

You most definately need to be careful in bad areas in Brazil and other areas. But I grew up in Los Angeles so I think I am fairly saavy on keeping out of bad areas.

When I was in Thailand, I felt perfectly safe at all times. Nothing really weird happened to me while I was their, and other than a slight misunderstanding when renting a Jet Ski in Pattaya, I never felt I was being ripped off.

I can't say the same thing for Brazil. I think if you are not careful, you could find yourself at the wrong end of a gun or knife.

I have been ripped off by a Help Disco girl before. When in Brazil, I don't really frequent Help or the cafe outside (other than to look). I usually go to a Terma, see someone I like and make arrangements to meet them before their shift or on their day off.

When I was in Rio in 1995-1996, I spent more time trying to bed local non-pros. Its actually fairly easy if you are not a tourist. If you are a tourist, non pro girls are not into the short time thing.

There are several discos and music clubs where you can go. If you strike up a conversation and let them know you are living in Rio (or wherever), its easy to get a date.

Just be very careful when dating someone who is a non-pro because they will most likely be someone that is not of high economic stature in Brazil.

Those with money in Brazil are fairly elitist. If you were to rank men in the eyes of women in society in Brazil it would look something like this:

1. Brazilian financial elite
2. Brazilian middle class (small but exists)
3. American/European-Caucasion (sorry guys its just the way it is).
4. Non-Brazilian/Non Caucasion
5. Brazilian Poor

So the hot rich women avoid gringos like the plague since they see us as the mongers we are. The middle class women stick with their own or upgrade. That leaves us with the poorer women.

Fortunately, thats the larges segment of Brazilian women.

What makes this important is that if you are invited to your girlfriends home, you are most likely going into a poor neighborhood.

Also important is that a Brazilian woman is very possessive and will react very wildly if they catch you doing something like going to a terma. You better be on the straight and narrow with a Brazilian girl or you might regret it.

Lastly, Brazilian women like a lot of money. Some of them can't imagine the kind of money you have or better yet they over-imagine what you have. They love to shop and if you spoil them, they can become spoiled-rotten quick.

Keep their expectations realistic. Let them know your not a bank and you should be OK. I think that if you come off sincere and more importantly permanent, you can successfully have a relationship.

The nice thing is that you won't get bored with your sex life with your full time girlfriend.

I suspect you are right about GFE in Thailand. I don't think you will get the same experience from a Thai girl if you make her your "permanent" girlfriend.

Sorry for the long messages but I forgot to provide a detail that is important. Most Brazilian women, poor or not, don't want to move to America/Europe. They are perfectly happy living in Brazil.

I have heard that many women from Thailand would much rather come here. Don't know if thats true or not.

One area that I would be interested in are those who may want to retire in Czech Republic. I found that to be a very cool place to visit and it appears to be a fairly inexpensive city.

Also I know a lot about Russia if anyone has any interest there. Believe me, there is nothing like a Russian woman. I don't mean that in a necessarily good way either.

The dream can be fulfilled anywhere. It doesn't need to be Brazil vs. Thailand.

Mclapp

Thai women like Thailand and want to live there. Filipinas are the largest export of the Philippines. If you're looking to marry someone from SEA and want to live in the US, fly into MNL and wave your passport with an application for a fiance visa. You'll be engaged before you leave the parking lot.

Most women are possessive of their boyfriends and don't want them fucking other women no matter the country. It's rare to find a girl that doesn't mind.

E

The only difference is that I think a Brazilian might have you shot! ;-)

Actually, the Brizilian women may have you killed, but the Thai women will chop off your cock. Would you rather be dead or dickless?

E

Dickless I could still use my tongue!

Better off dead.

OK any info out there about any other destinations?

Wow guys! I love this section of Clubhombre. I will definitely be checking back here every now and then. Acutally I'm pretty new to mongering, unless you count the times I went to TJ since 7 years ago.
Actually I first visited Brasil in 2003 and ever since then the idea of moving to Rio popped in my head. I used the services of David from Gringomanagement, who even gave me a few lessons about Real Estate in Rio.
Well, since I am barely new to this profession of mongering(and it's never to early to start making plans about moving to another country), I am curious about one thing. With the increasing Euro against the dollar, how much in demand do you think English professors will be in the future? I mean, Spanish is not far behind english in America and the Euro is prety strong against the dollar. Also,judging from the increasing immigration to the USA, how much longer will English teachers be in demmand in other countries before Spanish catches on? Just a thought.

The language of business is English. I finished off my last semester of my MBA in Spain and all my classes were taught in English.

The outlook has never been better.

By the way for all those who might be interested in investing safely to keep your lifestyle, Franklin California Tax Exempt is paying 6.5% over the last 5 years.

For those who can tolerate risk a bit more, check out this months Money Magazine. There is a comprehensive list of mutual fund performance.

OK guys, I've found a website that details getting a permanent Brazil Visa. Here it is:



Immigration visa to Brazil will be granted only to applicants who satisfy the special requirements established by the Brazilian National Immigration Council or the Ministry of Labor. In principle, there are seven cases in which a foreigner can obtain a permanent residence visa to Brazil:

The administrator, manager or director of a professional or business corporation

This category is designed to cover inter-company transfers. Thus, the applicant must already be employed outside of Brazil by the parent company or by an affiliate or subsidiary of the company that proposes to employ him inside Brazil. However, there is no minimum time for that previous employment. Necessary documents for the first step will include:

* Proof that the applicant is employed outside Brazil by the parent company, or an affiliate or subsidiary of the Brazilian hiring company;
* A demonstration that the Brazilian company is bringing in specialized labor that will transfer technology, increase productivity and/or bring social benefits;
* Proof that the company outside of Brazil or its parent has effected total foreign-capital investments of at least US$ 200,000 in the employing company in Brazil for each visa requested.

Administrator, manager or director of a start-up company

Planned and recent start-up companies may apply for a maximum of three visas, essentially for the executives who will get the operation off the ground. The following conditions will apply:

* Proof that the non-Brazilian company has been in business outside of Brazil for at least five years;
* Power of attorney granted by the foreign investor to its new legal representatives for the purposes of setting up the company in Brazil;
* A visa of this type will be issued initially for two years. The applicant company must demonstrate that after this period it will be able to meet the minimum investment or job creation criteria laid down for transfers to an established company (see above).

Investor

A foreigner who intends to remain permanently in Brazil and will invest foreign funds in productive activities, so absorbing or training specialized labor. This category was planned for those foreigners who wish to invest funds (minimum of US$ 50,000) in any kind of productive activity in Brazil. This kind of permanent visa is issued conditionally for five years. Before this period ends, the foreigner must show to the Federal Police that he accomplished with his plan of absorption of Brazilian employees and his investment plan so his visa can be re-validated.

A researcher or high level specialist

The applicant must supply:

* A document from a Brazilian research institution manifesting its interest in the services of the researcher;
* A curriculum vitae and appropriate academic references and diplomas.

Retiree

A retired foreigner, over 50, who will transfer to Brazil the monthly equivalent of at least US$ 2,000. There is no limit to the number of dependents who may also receive permanent residence visas, but the main applicant must provide proof that they are genuine dependent relatives, as defined in Brazilian law - see Res. 4 of the CNI (National Immigration Council).

The main applicant must prove he has a pension of at least US$ 2,000 a month. This will entitle him to visas for himself and two dependents. The applicant must demonstrate an additional US$ 1,000/month for each additional dependent, over and above the two already mentioned, and must supply, amongst other things:

* A statement from the foreign agency responsible for paying his retirement pension, informing the total monthly sum of the benefit;
* A bank declaration authorizing monthly transfer of at least US$ 2,000.

Marriage to a Brazilian citizen

This case is covered by a resolution of the National Immigration Council. A permanent residence visa is granted to foreigners married to Brazilian citizens. Application is made to the Ministry of Justice (normally via regional Federal Police offices, which represent the ministry at a State level) or to a Brazilian consulate abroad. Evidence (e.g. marriage certificate, statement from witnesses) should be presented of the matrimonial union. Immigration officials will effect a surprise visit to the couple's home to make sure that the relationship is not a "marriage of convenience" that has the principal purpose of fraudulently obtaining a residence visa.

Foreigner with Brazilian offspring

This case is covered by a resolution of the National Immigration Council. A permanent visa is traditionally granted to the foreign parent or parents of a Brazilian child. Application is made to the Ministry of Justice (normally via regional Federal Police offices, which represent the ministry at a State level) or to a Brazilian consulate abroad. The offspring should be economically dependent on the foreign mother or father and be under the guardianship of the applicant.


Immigration to Brazil could be tough and lengthy process if you are not familiar with the laws and regulations. It is further complicated by the fact that the immigration authorities in Brazil barely speak English and all instructions are in Portuguese.

If you plan to immigrate to Brazil you may wish to contact us for consultation where we’d be able to provide with professional advice on your chances and opportunities and explain in great details the necessary steps to be taken.

What's the URL of the website?

The URL is http://www.how2immigrate.net/

By the way, I've spent quite a lot of time looking at Panama as well.

Immigration is easier and is more friendly to American "Retirees". Your pension doesn't need to be the $2000 needed in Brazil. You can get away with $500 a month and more importantly, you only need to be 18 to qualify, not 50 like Brazil.

Now I know the quality might not be as good (I'll let you know after my trip in late February) but it is important that you live in an area that is tax advantageous as well.

What bothers me a bit about Brazil is that the tax capital gains for all residents. Now if you own stocks, you can theorhetically be taxed twice (US and Brazil). I know there is a tax agreement between the US and Brazil but I'm not clear on how it works in this situation.

I have a few calls into tax people who may know and I'll get back with everyone. If I'm living on investments, I don't want to have to report that income in Brazil if it is in American banks/brokerages. More to follow.

I also spent some time talking with a Brazillian Real Estate Agent to discuss purchasing vs. renting.

All of those stories about "cheap" real estate in Rio is not 100% accurate. If you buy an apartment in Rio by the beach, you will spend $100K-$500K depending on the size and quality. Now if you are willing to go about an hour out of Rio, you can buy a 2000 square foot house in a safe area for about $50K. There is no financing unless you arrange it with the seller. Its all cash. That is a significant downside since I wouldn't be able to live in the $100K barebones studio apartment and I wouldn't want to part with $500K for a nice size place.

By the way, just because you buy a place in Rio means you can become a resident. You still have to meet one of the criteria above or be able to "bribe" the right person. I'm not sure how easy this is, maybe someone living in Brazil can comment.

This is a good website. I have found that Brazil doesn't really want Americans coming in unless they have a lot of money.

Although the sex trade is legal, they don't really want that as an integral part of their economy like Thailand.

I have a new angle (sort of).

You can start a business in Brazil for $50,000 and get a permanent visa.

If you buy a piece of property in Brazil, several Real Estate firms will hook you up with an accounting firm that will sponsor you for your permanent visa.

The accounting firm in Brazil will take you on as a partner for $50,000. Once you receive residency, you are given back your stake in the business. This is done because the real estate company wants to sell you a house and they know you won't do it if you can't live in it.

I spoke with a realtor today (an American in Brazil) that offered to do this for me as a condition of the sale.

The house was about 40 miles outside Rio on the beach in a safe community. The cost of the house is $50K! It costs $1.50 to take an hour bus to Ipanema from there. This is a killer deal.

Taxes and insurance are about $500 per year and since you are outside Rio, your cost to buy food and utilities are about another $3500 per year.

Maybe you don't need as much money afterall.

Sniper -

If you buy a new apartment or house in Panama (must be new construction) you will not have to pay real estate taxes for 20-years...Panama wants retirees too. However, you have to prove a monthly guaranteed income (retirement/pension of any sort) of $500 a month, or deposit $100K in a bank in Panama. Have to get an AIDs test too.

You should check-out Yahoo Groups - I think it is expats in Panama or something like that...US expats and wanna-bees discuss this stuff all the time. Let me know if you are interested and I'll find the link.

AlecJamer

Absolutely interested.

From what I can see, Panama is trying to replace Costa Rica as a retirement mecca.

There is probably better mongering in Brazil but I don't monger 24/7 and Columbia is a very short flight if I feel the need.

I know you were there for awhile, how is the non-pro talent? I would imagine Americans are a hot commodity down there still.

Below is information if you want to establish residency in Panama.

THE FAST TRACK PANAMA PASSPORT PROGRAM

This plan requires a five-year time deposit (CD) in the Banco Nacional of Panama; the deposit must accrue at least $750 worth of monthly interest. According to today’s figures this would mean a total deposit of $180,000. The interest from the time deposit or CD will be put in a personal saving’s account from which the passport applicant can draw monies from at any time. The principal investment of, say, $175,000 will be held by the Banco Nacional for five years, the life span of the time deposit.

What Is Needed To Apply

1. For the immigration process to be started all documents must be given to a immigration firm. The client must also sign a power of attorney, so that they can represent he or she in the court process that must be followed in the filing of documents for a passport.

2. Applicant needs to open a bank account and make initial deposit of at least $175,000. Bank will give the depositor a deposit certificate, which will be needed in order to start the residency process.

3. Your representative firm will then submit paper work to the office of immigration so that the fast track process can begin.

4. Within two to three weeks a passport will be issued to you. You must physically go to immigration with an attorney to pick up your passport. At immigration you will be thumb printed and your picture will be taken.

What Documents Will I Need?

1. You will need all the pages of your passport photocopied, including the photo page.

2. You will need police records from your current location; a Panamanian consul in your home country must notarize all police records.

3. Marriage certificate; it too must be notarized by a Panamanian consul in your current location.

4. A Panamanian counsel in your current location must also notarize your birth certificate.

5. Six photos of yourself

6. A physical exam by a Panamanian doctor and a signed statement by the physician saying you have no contagious diseases and are in good mental and physical health.

7. HIV test done by a Panamanian laboratory.

8. A Special Power of Attorney signed by you giving our firm the right to represent you in Panama.

Documents Needed For Opening A Bank Account

1. A notarized copy of all pages in your passport.

2. Two Original Personal Reference Letters. These letters should be written by someone who knows you, or someone you have worked with in the past. The letter should be signed and have contact information for the person signing the letter so as to verify its authenticity.

3. Two Financial letters from a financial institution whether a credit union, bank; the letter should be on the institutions letterhead and be signed by a representative of that institution. The letter should have that person’s contact information, fax, telephone, email, address etc and job title.

4. Two Original Commercial Reference letters. Again the letter should be on the company’s letterhead and be signed by a representative of the company and contact information must also be given.



REFORESTATION BASED RESIDENCY PLAN

As an investor in a Panamanian government approved reforestation project, you can obtain a Panamanian passport after five years with a minimum investment of $48,000. There are many companies that offer residency and passports through reforestation. One such company is Futuro Forestal, which is based, in the Panamanian province of Chiriqui.



SMALL BUSINESS INVESTOR PROGRAM

This program allows foreigners to obtain Panamanian residency as long as they invest a minimum of $40,000 in a new business or an already established business in Panama. The business must employ at least three Panamanian citizens and also pay Social Security benefits to employees as well as pay the minimum wage of Panama.



TAX PROCESSING ZONE INVESTOR

This program requires the investor to rent a property within a tax free zone in Panama for at least 10 to 20 years in order to export products from Panama. Having shown proof of this, the investor will be given Panamanian residency.



RETIRED OR PENSION PROGRAM

To be eligible for this program of residency, the applicant must be retired and have a pension of at least $500 a month. If the applicant has any dependents he or she must add $100 dollars to the minimum requirement ($500).

Panama is a great place for retirement as your money is extremely safe.

Hey Sniper. I'm interested in that comment you made about Panama trying to replace Costa Rica as the retirement mecca. Do you know something I don't? I'm about to turn 31 and am Mexican by birth; however, I became a USA citizen. What do you guys think about a guy like me? I like Costa RIca and heard nice things about Panama. Mexico is a nice place to retire and I would have family members, but don't know where my dollar would buy me more mongering. I looooove Brasil. So, can you give me a site to look at for Costa Rica Sniper? I would appreciate it.

Panama is giving a bunch of tax incentives to move there including not having to pay property tax for 20 years if you buy a home.

Also you can be a retiree at any age (18 or over) as long as you can show $500 a month coming to you by pension or goverment entity. A retiree gets massive discounts on a bunch of stuff (too much to list here). Apparently businesses have to give retirees discounts on these things if they have a retiree card.

Lastly, you can move there easily my just investing a small sum ($40K) into reforrestation or another investment and you can get a resident visa.

There is more, but that is why I made the comment. I don't think Costa Rica does this anymore.

Certainly much easier than Brazil.