I've posted this same exact note on immigration. The reason for the double post is a lot of members on this site have been very helpful, have more experience and insight and my question is both immigration and relationship.
Hi I appreciate anyones thoughts on the Club Hombre site, about the path I am going down.
I've been visiting the 'spot's; off and on for 20+ years,
I used to visit the old Firehouse, before that was shut down, now, nothing seems to come close to the selection and quality and feel. I spoke to my American friend who moved to Makati 20+ years back, he actually moved given a job as a consultant to the old Firehouse. Anyway, I digress.
Now, I just returned a few weeks ago from a visit,
Makati , walked the strip looking at almost every club, and A/C, I found A/C distasteful, sad, depressing, not for me. And , the girls were just so so in Makati. I didn't like the rules, the regulations and even tried to befriend a Mommesan offering her some excellent money to find the girls for me. That also did not work.
So, for a good looking guy, with panache, you can easily find many willing girls at the malls and Greenbelt in Makati, who may not be as work oriented and more my liking. I did just that and found a lovely woman.
I had a wonderful trip, I stayed in a beautiful suite at Dusit Nikko in Makati, I've a friend who lives there formerly from Hawaii, and his employee arranged 'local resident ' price of 6,600 pesos for the suite I adore, ..3 large rooms, 1,000 sq. feet with lounge right outside my door that has breakfast, snacks and drinks during the day and early eve,,
Anyway, the clubs were not for me, I walked them in Makati and A/C, so I picked up a woman, 30 year old, from the provenances, she says she has spent 6 years in the nunnery. Left the nunnery, joined the world, got a boyfriend , got pregnant, he left her, and she struggles to support herself with her sisters, cousins, etc, tiny little grocery store, a few piglets and such.
Still does not make enough money and says, that is why she came to Manila, yes , to meet a man who could pay far more than the work her sister gave her, in the mayor's office of some small provenance earning 100 Pesos a day.
She is very sweet, I won't go on, cause I know the drill. We spent a week together, in the suite and in Boracay, and it was beautiful and the communication was very real and honest. Of course she'd love to come here, "to be with me"...
I made it quite clear we are no where close to any stage of knowing each other that I would even open a dialogue about a future. She does have 9 month old child. She was completely with the program, fully understanding. I treated her with respect and she responded to that.
I am actually feeling quite detached from the entire relationship with her. Partially that is my nature, partially the sum total of my life experience, and partially the reality.
I am returning in December and will spend 10 days with her. She has tried to work on getting a Visa and sent me the realities of bank account and other requirements. Which I simply told her I do not want to even begin to put time into understanding her needs at this moment. I will not send her money, which she did not specifically ask for, just told me the costs of completing all Visa requirements. I did say to her, rather naively, that I'd love if she can come to America, she has a passport, and left it to her. Meaning, if it is easy and I just need to buy a plane ticket or something great. I've since respnded to her explanations of the requirements that she has to accomplish much or as much as she can on her own, and I'm not ready to start sending money or making any such commitetmens, which she expressed complete understanding about. She reiterated that Fiancé visa is this requirement, and some other Visa is another requirement, and I told her I do not want to even deal with it now. And we are not at the point to make that kind of commitment. I will enjoy my time with her in December and Jan. And what I did offer her, is she would like to become a professional in the culinary field. I have a close relation with one of the great chefs in the U.S., he and his restaurant will help if it is reasonable.
Is there some student, apprentice, work, visa she could get with this established restaurants filling in some papers, then I would happily pay her air fare to come stay with me and work at the restaurant.
Do you see any other hazards in my plan? I would buy her air ticket, my friends restaurant would complete some papers if it is not overwhelming to verify her apprenticship, work, training, schooling at this restaurant. And,I'd enjoy her stay. If it grows while she is here great, if I get bored, she has to leave.
Is such a visa possible?
Am I missing something in my planning?
I have been setting clear expectations about many issues to her and she is responding in accord so far.
Any thoughts? Or feel free to email, I'd be happy with any helpful ideas.
thanks

I replied on the immigration post but I would like to expand. You are fooling yourself. The worst part is you are not just fooling yourself but leading this woman on.

Basicly you feel that straight up P4P is bad so you search for something "more pure". You want a consort AND an emotionally fulfilling relationship. Can't have both. Go for the consort. It's easier and you hurt fewer people.

There's a good book that should be required reading for any monger (preferably before they touch down). Think it's called Private Dancer by Steven Leather.

Learn to leave your emotional needs/weaknesses at home and enjoy your time fucking and having FUN. Now if I could just stopped getting sidetracked myself... fortunetely I gain perspective soon as I'm in the air. Unless your trying to wind down a busy trip, repeating with providers should be avoided. That is unless your trying to test your emotional sanity and resolve.

Private Dancer was an engrossing read, and I found it quite informative about Thai bargirl life and some aspects of Thai culture. But I don't know how much relevance it has to Filipinas. Maybe the falling-in-love-with-a-bargirl aspect could be useful, but the guy was more nuts than a monger; Manonmission has monger experience.

Still, I recommend the book, if only for enjoyment. And it should be required reading for anyone coming to Thailand.

Thanks for all the caring help. Good guys, really. I don't know, some of the comments feel right on, some I wonder about. I wonder deep inside myself for the truth. Ultimitely what would satisfy me is a woman, what someone referred to as a courtesan, as a full time relationship, could be very satisfying for me. My world and other friend ships are complex enough. If a woman's love is pure, total, and I've discussed that I demand total surrender, and she is prepared to offer that, "as she learned in the nunnery", and I in return offer her what she wants and needs, and that fills us both. And no follow up of the family, and my strict limits and guidlines adhered to, why not?
I've been through 3 unhappy complicate marriages, interesting my closest friend now is a brilliant psychiatrist, he's had 4 previous marriages, in short, the woman were extremely bright to brilliant, 2 or 3 were M.D.s, the other some other intellectual, now he's so in love - 10 years with a former air stewardess, American from Iowa, simple farm woman, and he's so in love an happy, and he knows she's ditzy, but emotionally very present....what's wrong with that? If it fills the emotional needs...I've plenty of stimulation from many other sources, I think I know what I want at home now..Im being quite clear and very straight forward with this woman and I'm prepared to accept her 9 month old child, not any one else in her family, if I keep the boundary's very clear, why not look.?
I'm placing tremendous demands and being very clear with her, i.e., my bday is dec. 26, she asked me what I wanted, I told her 3 woman, and we had discussed the jealousy this brings up for her, she's willing to go throug with it to learn, to grow, to experience if it will bring us closer in love...to face the pain..last time she said yes, I saw the pain and called it off...why not see?

And maybe the emotional fulfilling relationship for me is to be with a consort. I don't know. Maybe I've enough other stimulation with business, friends, etc, that at home exactly what i want is a consort. That is a real possibility for me.

Now that I reflect on some of these comments, the emotional connection was what I found fulfilling. Even altering my needs to be attentive to her. To care for her. And the depth of our connection as it grew, the closeness, ...The tenderness, the caring, the sharing, it wasn't fukcing, it was making love...it was a real closeness. I had the opportunity to be with other woman and I repeatdly chose to be with this one woman.

HMAN, just about everyone on this board has mongering experience and even the best of us leaves our brain home on occasion when it comes to bargirls.

MM-- your talking to the wrong audience methinks. You may want to seek counseling due to the fact your actually entertaining marriage after 3 failed attempts. Most learn their lesson after one, if not 2 mistakes. BTW, the "it wasn't fucking, it was making love" is nonsense. If she's hot, she getting boned (ohh I mean making love) probably as I write to another punter for less than what I spent of dinner.

I thought it was 3 strikes and you are out.

MM

Gee, DM, I don't know--some girls I fuck, some I make love to--it just depends how attractive and sensual they are.

Of course I realize that occasionally, the little head gets the better of the best of us--hopefully only briefly. The point I was making was that Manonmission already has the monger experience detailed in Private Dancer from which a NEWBIE might benefit.

But it kind of does sound like Manonmission is falling in love, looking for that fourth strike....

"the emotional connection was what I found fulfilling... altering my needs to be attentive to her. To care for her. And the depth of our connection as it grew, the closeness, ...The tenderness, the caring, the sharing, it wasn't fukcing, it was making love...it was a real closeness."

Can this be a healthy monger relationship? Would many of us FALL for the skilled courtesan? --Mistaking an extremely well-crafted fantasy for reality? And if she successfully sustained the fantasy long-term?....Actually, I wouldn't mind a little personal experience with this question....

A lot of assumptions are being made that do not fit my life. Assumptions that marriage is forever. Assumption that the girl is a working girl. Assumption that the end of the marriage is a 'strike' and strikes out.
Maybe the point is missed that this is not a bar girl. We did not meet in that world. She does not or has not ever worked in a bar.
I'm not planning on marrying this woman. I have found a woman who had surrendered to God in her experience living in a nunnery and is now surrendering to me in the very same manner. That suits me perfectly.
For my birthday present during this trip she is going to find 3 girls to join us for an evening, if she cannot find them, she and I have discussed this and I or my local friend will find the girls.

M,

You are aware that you on a sex-travel board, and while we talk about everything on here, the primary purpose is to exchange information about pay-for-play relaxation. Thus, the information about secondary topics will of course be slightly slanted via our primary topic of conversation.

Basically, you're posting on a board that discusses international whoring. Club Hombre isn't a Lonely Hearts board, or a board about finding a mail-order bride, or a board about tourism to Asia or anything of the sort. If we conclude that your girl is a bargirl, it's because we are slightly confused by your story or that we may be a just a little jaded and find it slightly hard to believe that you go on a monger run to the P.I., find that you don't like the lifestyle, then find an ex-nun (of all things) with a kid who runs a grocery store and possibly a pig farm.

I'm not doubting your story - I'm sure that's what she told you - I'm just doubting her story slightly. The end result is, you are playing the Knight-in-Shining-Armor routine, and are seeking advice on getting your girl into the US. We are simply, in this thread and the other five or so where this story is being discussed, giving you our opinions. Don't take offense, and don't worry if we start to revert to our default programming, of sorts, and start mixing in the standard "don't marry a hooker you barely know from an impoverished 3rd-world country and try and move her to the US" advice with your situation. Just ignore references to her being a hooker but the rest is good for any situation that consists of elements of the "marry a _____ you barely know from an impoverished 3rd-world country and try and move her to the US"

Cat

Here, let me help: "marry a[n] "ex-nun with a child. A woman who had surrendered to God in her experience living in a nunnery and is now surrendering to me in the very same manner. For my birthday present during this trip she is going to find 3 girls to join us for an evening, if she cannot find them, she and I have discussed this and I or my local friend will find the girls" you barely know from an impoverished 3rd-world country and try and move her to the US"

Sure sounds like the behavior and comfort level of ex-catholic nuns around the world and not someone of "flexible" virtue like those aforementioned bargirls...

E

Epi,

Well, when nuns go bad, you just never can tell!

You're right, about the context here. I appreciate the depth of understanding. And of course who knows the truth of her story. I only have my intuition and heart, and ability of perception to sense the truth or not. Anyway, at this point it does not matter. Meaning, it does not impact me at this point if she's made it all up or not. From the discussions I've had with her in depth about how she spent her day at the nunnery, her thoughts on issues that came out of that experience, her feelings about the daily events at the nunnery, giving her life to god and why she has decided to change her life, I believe her. On our last visit I asked for a 3some which she said yet to, later that evening at dinner I sensed something wrong and we had an excellent discussion. I canceled the 3some. Now she says she will go through with it. We discussed jealousy and how common that is in relationships to come up during 3 somes or swinging. She would like to try to grow, she is prepared to have the experience and deal with it. I know from being in relationships playing with sexual energy is playing with fire, it brings up all kinds of stuff. Let's see where it goes. I am quite aware of the realities, that she hopes this leads to marriage. I know what she hopes and I've been striaght with her. And she is not pressuring me at all. I've not been introduced to her life, her child, her family, and have no interest in venturing outside of my protected cocoon. Nor can I imagine her functioning in my world, back in the states. The heart has it's own path. And of course my cock has another path. So, lets see what happens. I hit on this web site that has opened the door to so many beautiful young filipina's, that I may want to invite one or 2 of them to join us on the trip to the island resort. So, there are many possibilities.

With all the help which I appreciate, I will reciprocate later, I'll let you know how it goes. Also, I've found an incredible web site that has Filipina girls who are almost as beautiful as the top modeling agency girls I auditioned in the early 90's in Makati for a photo shoot I was doing. This is a level of beauty, grace, elegance and glass that you had several former entrants in "Miss World" "Miss Universe", ..I'm approaching these girls to see how that goes..

The continuing saga. The nun, or former nun, was given very specific and clear instructions on her duty and goal in life to be with me. She was to have total and absolute complete focus on my organ. We had also discussed at length my birthday party and how fooling around with the other girls was to be understood as sex without a relationship. Sex without any emotional connection and that what we did together was involved emotions and other levels of sharing. The former nun had done whatever internal dialogue and said she was comfortable with this. And she was going to come from her far away provenance and spend 4 days or so looking for girls who would join in for some Pesos. However, I continually sensed discomfort and realized I best make the arrangements myself. I found an international web site for meeting singles that includes Filipina girls. In the ensuing months leading up to me trip, I began to have contact with a number of these girls. My intent was to find girls for the birthday party. However, one young woman really caught my interest. She appeared to be of a different quality. We began a dialogue that become quite lengthy, regular and often would go on for hours. By telephone and internet cam chat. I was quite taken with this young woman, she had a breath of international knowledge, or the great literature of the past 100 years, world history, politics, and it all fascinated her. She had a hunger to broaden her horizons that fascinated me, her feel for world fashion, her aesthetics...She was a rare young woman from what I could tell from that distance. Her openness about sexuality was delightful and appeared to be so different than the usual crap, and if shared tastefully she was quite mature about all phases of this discussion, whether joking or serious. Whether introducing fantasy, past experience, wishes, human sexuality, no matter the aspect of sexuality, she seemed quite comfortable with the topic and open.
Although her story was that she had been a virgin, which she had given to her previous love, a similar relationship to her and I. She would turn 23 in January, and her previous man was 45, an American. She is quite aware that she is attracted to older men, and has some ideas why. Her previous relationship went on for a year and her version is that the man misled her and had been fooling around with many other women and was not there for her when she needed him. (Which is another story that is not relevant to go into)? At the same time I began to find how impossible it was to communicate with the former nun. Whether by internet chat, email or telephone her English seemed to get worse and worse. She was so deficient in basic communication I began to wonder how I had not noticed this in our week together in October. Was it that that when we were together she would be busy performing her duties for an hour or 2 several times a day and obviously could not speak at the moment, yet I felt that communication was taking place as I swirled in drug like haze?
Anyway, the more I tried the more impossible communication became with the former nun, so we both agreed to stop forcing it and wait till I arrived. Meanwhile the other young woman from Mindanao and I continued to share for hours and cover all kinds of emotional depth, to the extent that is possible on the internet.
Upon arriving in Manila, the ex-nun was waiting for me at my friend’s home in Makati and happily began her service of devotion.
The next day we moved into my regular hotel, a suite at the Nikko. That night, 5 other girls appeared for my birthday party, and the former nun was a champ. She performed exactly as had been directed. And a very good time was had by all. I was quite tired, still with jet lag from the trip and then the time change and the party further drained me. So I only kept one of the girls to stay over with me and the former nun. The next day, 2 of the girls phoned and asked if they could join us, and I was so tired I had to pass. I also felt the 2 I had would be enough. We spent the long full day and night in the suite together never venturing out. The 2 girls talked and by evening the visitor had told my GF, that she had been in communication with me for 3 months, and that I was looking for a wife. Of course this sent by GF into an entire withdrawn and angry mood.
I addressed this directly, by discussing it openly with the 3 of us, then sending the visitor home. I was now left with only the GF who I thought I could straighten her out. I never accomplished this task.
The 1 - 2 hour perfect oral sessions were not shortened by "fuck me darling" requests. In the morning we packed and headed for the Pearl Farm in Mindanao. My plan was to divide the week with the former nun and meet the new one who fascinated me so.
Over the next 24 hours, the nun no longer seemed interested in her only real task. The lengthy beautiful oral sessions now were shortened to 15 minutes and then "fuck me darling" requests. In spite of discussing the importance of her performing her task, the problem was repeated. I also found increasing difficulty in the English communication. And within 24 hours of being at the Pearl Farm at the 2nd or 3rd "fuck me darling" request. I found myself on the telephone to the new prospect asking her if she could come the next day.
So, the next morning I shipped out the nun, and in came the new woman. We spend almost a week together and shared all kinds of highs and lows including me being completely truthful when answering her question, "when was the last time you had sex?"
I really enjoy this young woman and am now seeking to bring her to America to find out how it will be together.
I am trying some clever ideas of getting her here, none of which seem to be working. So, I may wind up using the fiancée visa route, although we are both clear that we do not know each other enough to make such a commitment.
Of course there are many concerns, questions and things to be cautious of. I also need to learn all of the ins and out about the fiancée visa. From reading on this site it appears if I am thorough I can accomplish the paper work ourselves, and she could be here relatively soon. That the visa is for 3 months and then I could send her home, and bring her back with a 2nd fiancée visa. So, we will see what happens. I had just felt with all the help I received on this site, that I should update those who had given me some input on the progress of my travels.
A good year for all.

My experience (related to Mexico, not SEA) has been that getting a second K-1 is MUCH harder; getting a second one for the SAME chica is pretty unlikely.

Their attitude is "you already had a chance, and...."

I know a couple of guys who have managed to get a second chica a K-1, but never for the same chica - and in at least one case I know a guy tried, and was turned down.

Just a heads up.....