Quite a bit of stir started when I posted a year ago about being fed up and wanting to leave the US for better pastures.

A lot has happened in that time. My business took a turn for the better, I'm winding up a marriage that is failing, and I've nailed down short list of final retirement destinations.

But how do you live overseas when you have no job? How do you avoid going broke?

I plan to use this post as a jumping point to let you know what sources I used and what I plan to do to live the dream!

First let me tell you a little about my background. I'm 40, my net worth is about $750K USD, I am self employed in the Financial Services industry, no kids at all, and an MBA in Finance. I speak a little of a bunch of languages, but am only fluent in English.

First, I want to suggest a few books:

1. You can retire young by Larry Ferstenou. He and his wife never earned a combined income of $50K their entire life yet they both retired in their 40's.

2. Living the American Dream by Paul Terhorst. This guy has been living on the road with his wife since the early 70's. He's an inspiration.

Second, I would suggest 2 websites:

1. International Living

2. www.escapeartist.com

All of theses sources helped shape my thoughts.

Now for the meat of this post, how to live on your savings for the rest of your life.

Its important to note that those who completely stop working often live only 10 years or less before they pass. This is largely due to boredom and not exercising your brain.

I believe any plan requires at least part-time work, not only to make your savings last longer but to also to keep your sanity.

Your first order of business is to set up residency in a non-tax state. The best places for this are Nevada and Texas. It is best if you get a part-time job in this state for a few months to establish that you have moved out of your old state.

Also remember to move your bank account to the state.

It is very important that you pick one of the big banks like B of A or Citibank because of their ability to work internationally with international bank transfers and other financial services that you will need when you are out of country.

In order to set up residency, you need to get a physical address and registar to vote. What this will do (especially for you California guys) is that it will get your states grubby little hands out of your pockets when you go overseas. California for instance taxes foreign earned income!

Second is to get a mail forwarding service where you will get your mail to you no matter where you are. Always pick the service that can let you know what you have electronically before they send it. This will allow you to sort through your mail before they send you a bunch of shit you don't need like grocery circulars. Most mail forwarding services that do this internationally have web browsing of your mail where you can tell them to toss or send the mail. You want this address to be a physical address that can accept packages and other things, not a PO Box. PO Box addresses will not do period, do not let the owner of the PO Box store tell you any different!

Start using this address for all correspondance even while you live in the US. Notify the IRS of this as well.

Third, you want to move your money to an advisor that is comfortable with only speaking with you a few times a year and has a LOT OF RETIRED CLIENTS. You don't want the speculator or the idea guy. You are retired and you want your money to grow steadily.

Have him arrange a salary to be auto deposited into your US account on a quarterly basis. Monthly is too often because it may trigger earnings busting transaction fees and yearly is too long because your money sits in a low interest account that isn't working for you.

Better yet, if you are able to manage your own money, move it to Schwab or some other low fee online broker. Schwab has their own bank with ATM and has no problem wiring money or any other services for retirees overseas.

Next, sell all of your stuff. Everything including your car. Get down to 3 or 4 suitcases. If you just can't part with the old baseball cards or old Playboys, leave them with a trusted friend.

All of your old paperwork (tax stuff etc) should be boxed up and given to this same trusted friend. I've gone one step further and I scanned all of my documents and burned it on a DVD which is stored in my free safe deposit box hooked up with my B of A account.

You now have established that you live in a non tax state, you have reduced your worldly goods down to a few suit cases, and all of your financials are in order.

Now where do I put my money?

Part 2 will continue!

Good advice, what are your thoughts on the recently passed tax changes that greatly affect expat Americans?

OK, now Investment 101.

First, you need to answer 4 questions:

1. How much cash do I have?
2. How much cash do I need on a monthly basis?
3. How long does my money need to last?
4. What is my risk tolerance?

If your goal is to retire and you are 40 with $100,000, you are fucked. It aint going to happen unless you die at 45. Even if you get a job while in your new country, you are going to live like you have no money. No money in a different country sucks.

In most countries that we are looking at, you are going to need to generate an after tax income of $30,000 USD. $2500 a month in most of our favorite countries is just fine as long as you live a normal middle class life and don't go to Termas everyday.

Supplemented with a part-time job to keep your social life in order, your brain active, and reduce your need for dipping too much into your principal. Also it increases your chance of looking like a regular guy and attracting local non pros thus reducing your need to spend money at your local bordello!

Given that you now are a resident in a non tax state and foreign earnings are not taxable in the US up to $80K (you won't even get close don't worry), you need to earn a pre-tax income of approximately $35,000 USD.

Your capital requirement is simple:

At 10% you need $350,000
At 7% you need $500,000
At 5% you need $700,000

Now you need to work in inflation. Not only your inflation in the new country but also currency fluctuations and even US inflation.

A suggestion is that you basically "net out" the rate you need. For instance, if you have $350K, you need 10%. With what I will call as the "X" Factor of 3% (for example), you need 13%.

This will give you a basic starting point.

Now I'm not going to lie to you, the more money you have, the easier this is. I stated earlier I have about $750K (after my impending divorce), but I know that in a few years, I'll have quite a bit more. So I'm going to wait (It's painful but the wait is worth it).

What makes it easier with more money is that you don't need to make huge returns to meet your goal. Even if you do, you gave yourself a huge raise because you started with more money. Less risky investments mitigates any downturns. Even to the point where CD's may be enough for you.

Forget tax free investments. At the tax rate you are going to generate from your investments, it isn't going to be worth your efforts.

If you are older, you may feel comfortable dipping into principal. If you are in your late 50's and you have $700K, you can pull a little from your principal and still have plenty to live on.

If you are younger, you can take a little more risk in order to increase your principal and live longer on your investment.

Now for the few of us that are accredited investors, we have more options.

Just as an informational note, an accredited investor makes over $200,000 a year, has a million or more in net worth, or both.

There are some very safe investments that pay 10-12% without as much of a risk factor as stocks or mutual funds that pay the same. If you fall into the accredited investor status, let me know and I can point you in the right direction. You will need an investment advisor to participate (not me). I'm currently in an investment that has consistently paid 11-12% for the last 15 years. Every year without exception. Its not guaranteed but no investments are.

For others, this is what you need to do. DIVERSIFY! Don't put everything in one place (even if you can find a steady thing). Figure out what rate of return you need and use the following to figure out how to diversify:

Emerging Market 14%
US Small Cap 12%
US Large Cap 10%
Foreign Company 10%
US Real Estate 10%
US Oil & Gas 8%
Corporate Bond 7%
Foreign Bond 7%
Treasury Bond 6%
Muni Bond 5%
Money Market/CD's 4%
T-Bills 3%
Gold 3%

The above list is a long term annual rate of return. It isn't a sure thing, but if you look over the long haul, this is about right.

The reason for diversification is to smooth out the bumps.

For instance, if Emerging Markets goes down by 20% and you have 100% of your money in that type of investment, you are screwed. But if you are spread out and let say large caps go up by 10% at the same time, you only really lost 10%. You get the idea.

Diversify into 4 or 5 asset classes by taking for instance 20% of your net worth and buy emerging market securities for a rate of return of 2.8% (20% x 14%). Figure this out for all the different asset classes and add the rates together to get your final rate of return.

For example if we bought 2 asset classes Emerging Markets and Small Cap, we would expect a blended rate of 13% (EM + SC= 50% x 14% + 50% x 12%).

Do this with 5 different asset classes and you can figure out how to make your required rate of return.

So to go full circle, if you need a rate of return of 10%, you would need to do the following:

1. Take your required rate of return (10%)
2. Add in your "X" Factor (3%)
3. Get your blended requirement of 13% (good luck brother)
4. Divide your net worth into 4 to 5 asset classes. Older hombres should pick more towards the middle of the bunch, younger can pick higher risk investments.

Now this sounds too easy. Well it isn't. What do you buy in each asset class? My suggestion, buy mutual funds. Unless you are an insider, you are unlikely to make any decision that is revolutionary and will mint you money.

Mutual funds with low fees and a long term performance that is best or close to best would be the way to go. No load is great but it has to be a consistent top performer. Don't skip loaded funds because of the load. There are plenty out there that do great that you could miss.

When you take withdrawls, take them proportionally from each investment class. Always reinvest your dividends and capital gains. You gradually increase your net worth if you do this.

If you only take the capital gains and dividends as income, your principal stays the same and you never grow.

If you reinvest, this helps mitigate your "X" Factor. Doesn't eliminate it, but it makes it less of a factor.

There are a number of retirement books out there that will give you these formulas. I just suggest that if you are risk tolerant, the securities market is an excellent way to retire with less than you actually thought.

If you are not risk tolerant, then I would suggest that you get into a very safe investment and you should start with more money.

Be realistic, don't live on pipe dream returns.

By all means, work! This will reduce your need for extra money while out in the world. There are thousands of jobs for English speakers out there. Teaching English is only one! Tour guides, hotel consierge, others.

If you have a specialized skill, use it. It may even qualify you for a residency visa in the country of your choice.

Anyway I hope this section helped.

Next, psychological factors!

Cat,

Good question! I'm still digesting that. Given that I am not an accountant, I would defer to those out there.

But as I suggested, your income outside the US is going to be minimal. If you make more than $10,000 a year I would be suprised. So I think that tax impact will be minimal.

You essentially are a retired person living off of your investments. The US government really is only worried about earned income.

Now I'm a bit of a novice in this subject. I've been an expat but not for a very long period and never in a mongering country.

That being said, this comes from a wide variety of sources including many conversations I have had with expats, reading periodicals, and just what I have experienced in extended stay situations.

There are 3 areas where I think we should be concerned with.

1. Keeping your mind active by having something to do.

I suggested working. I know I need this. Hanging around with hookers all day and other mongerers sounds enticing for about a month. Any longer than that, you would have to lobotomize me.

But there are certainly other things you can do. Perhaps write a book, volunteer, whatever. You just need to create a sense of normalcy in your life.

More importantly to me, I associate who I am with what I do. I intend to teach. I will be a professor. I have a role in society.

If I am "retired", I am dead. Thats just me, maybe you're different.

There are some guys out there who live the mongering life 24X7. Some very active on this board. I just don't think this is healthy.

A matter of fact, there is a prominant guy in the Brazil section of the board that is only about 5 years older than me. But I think he looks 10-15 years older than I am. I also felt he was dull witted when I met him face to face.

Now maybe this was because he actually is dull witted, but I really think it is because he isn't exercising his brain. He just parties.

2. Be prepared to slow down.

Wherever you go, this isn't the US. There are lines, long waiting times etc. Get used to it, don't expect others to change, you are the foreigner!

3. Keeping a lifeline.

We all have friends and family in the US. I am fortunate (or unfortunate) to not have any family that I am close to in the US. However I do have many friends that I talk with on a very regular basis.

I know I won't have problems making new friends, but I believe its very important to keep a lifeline in the US. No matter what you think now, you may want to come back to the US in your final days. It would be nice if you have kept in touch with friends and family all the years you were gone so you have someone to see when you come back (even for a visit)

Picking a country is next. Where do you go?

I only have one piece of advice here, pick a place that is livable. Don't pick a place beacuse of how hot the girls are. I can certainly understand why you would, but resist.

I've got news for you, there are hot girls everywhere. Even in the US. Its just how much money you need to play the game.

I have a multi-millionaire friend and client that has no idea why I want to move overseas.

Well, he goes places and picks from any 9 or 10 in the place. He drives a $400,000 Bentley, wears a $17,000 Rolex, wears a $5,000 Suit, has a 4000 square foot house in Atherton (very posh), and hangs out at clubs that are for people of his wealth.

Great, I have $750K, I make about $250K a year, I wear a $1000 watch, a $500 suit, and I have a 1800 square foot condo in a middle class neighborhood. Oh yeah, I drive a pickup truck. He just doesn't understand.

Many would love to live in Rio. Great, but did you know that non-pros are difficult to get to know there? Americans have the reputation of being mongerers. Its hard to break into the social circles.

In short, I wouldn't want to live in Rio.

Look for a place that isn't anti American. PSST...Thats you! No matter how long you are in their country, you are an American. I don't care if you are not an American! If you have a different accent, you are an American unless you can prove otherwise.

If security is a main concern, I would stay away from Rio and Colombia.

Both great places, but if you are oblivious to your surroundings, you'll find yourself in a heap of shit quick in either country.

But I'll tell you, there is no better place on earth for non-pros than in Colombia. I've been all over, I had a very easy time meeting non-pros and I didn't even try.

Do you like Asians? Do you like Latinas? Do you like Europeans? Figure it out!

I am not fond of Asian women, I know there are plenty of nice ones, but I live in San Francisco. I can walk out my door and find 50 hot Asians here.

If you like standard European types, try Prague or Moscow. Very nice! Prague is actually cheaper than most Latin American countries. Watch it though, they are succeptable to currency risks because they are now part of the European Union and I believe they will be switching to the Euro very soon. This will wreck havoc on pricing for a bit. But Prague is a very safe place and the women are HOT!

I suggest before you put down roots, make a short list of places you want to live and stay in each for a few months. Then pick where you want to go.

Nice thing is that if you decide you no longer want to stay, you can always change.

"Don't skip loaded funds because of the load. There are plenty out there that do great that you could miss."

Actually, DO skip loaded funds because of the load. Loads are one of the biggest rip offs in the industry. There are plenty of other non-load funds that are equal or do better than loaded funds. With loads, you are simply paying a sales commission. They're an utter waste of money. Better yet, invest in ETFs.

"...but I live in San Francisco. I can walk out my door and find 50 hot Asians here."

And unless you are a 25 yo stud, or drive $400,000 Bentleys and live in 4000 sq ft mansions in Atherton, you have about a snowball's chance in hell....

---And that's from a 35-year old stud!

Murasaki -

Don't mean to split hairs, but your last post confused me a little.

Just to clarify from my understanding:

No-load funds seem to misleading, as if they cost nothing. But they do have a fee associated with them of a few percentage points a year, every year, upon every year upon the entire value of the investment. May sound cheap when you have $1K and pay only $30.00 in fees. But, as that investment grows to $100,000...now you are paying $3K per year. If it hits $1,000,000...now you are paying $30K a year.

Now consider a front-load at 5%. You invest $1K and on the first day you have $950 sitting in the account. Theoretically, you can grow that $950 investment into $1,000,000 and will have paid only $50 in fees...just on-time when you started...not nickel'd and dimed forever.

But, I am not a mutual fund king of guy...I only buy and hold quality stocks...and trade a few more speculative ones on a regular basis.

Sniper - I haven't read this entire thread...where did you decide to settle down? Colombia?

I am now sponsoring a 1-year-old in Cabecera through an outreach program. I donate a little under $300 a year ensure a proper diet, medicine, home improvements and a basic education. I figure since I take so much when mongering, I should give back a little. The wife admires this move, But, I now have an excuse to visit Colombia. If you are living in Colombia, perhaps one day I will swing by and say hello.

AJ

If your marriage is failing and does fail then get ready to watch the 750K that you possess start melting away in attorney's fees, community property laws and good ole spousal support.

Saving money is great but if you are too old to properly enjoy it or too old to look good driving a Ferrari, then whats the point.

Hi Sniper,

I have been living in Brazil the last 3 years and I am in my 40's.

1. Interest rates in Brazil are quite good. I am getting about 18%, and it ties into your checking account so the funds are always available.

2. Timing is everything. If you have no plans of returning to the US, then one key is to move your money to the foreign country with a favorable exchange rate. The Brazilian real has has had huge fluctuations in the last three years.

3. In addition to having a nice wad of cash, I also built another business which I am able to run out of Rio using an internet phone and my computer. I work about 4-5 hours a day. It keeps my mind active, and the extra income is nice.

4. Getting exercise is key. I have a quite a few friends that have retired in their 40's and we all excercise on a regular basis. Even if you are overweight and have never exercise, start going for a 1/2 hour walk every other day.

5. As far as your investment advice, I go by the saying, you can never have too much cash. I disagree with your analysis on age and risk tolerance. Your risk tolerance is a function of your income. If you have no other income source, then your risk tolerance goes way down.

6. Because of my business interests in the US, plus personal ties, I travel back to the US 5-6 times a year for short stays. Because of this, it has not been necessary up to this point to get a permanent residence visa. In Brazil in particular, it is difficult to get a retirement visa when you are in your 40's. Some people choose to stay here illegally, and strongly recommend against that approach.

7. I chose Rio because of the weather, the quality of life, and also scenery. The women, for my tastes are fantastic, and great in bed. But that was a secondary consideration.

8. My last comment is whereever you go, be careful. As an American living overseas, you become a target. People want your money. Not just the locals but also Americans that live in that country. Many are con men. I learned this lesson the hard way. My golden rule. Don't ever try and make money in the country in which you retire.

I wish you luck.

BT

I like these comments, let me clarify my position:

1. I'm 40, in very good shape (better than most 25 year olds), and make good money. My point is, if I wanted a 25 year old girlfriend, I could have one. I just couldn't afford that lifestyle without working for very long.

2. Prenup baby! The $750K is all in my name and is not subject to any community property rules. If my wife wanted to go after it, then she would open up her net worth to my attorney as well. I'm in a very good position since she has more money than me!

3. Loaded funds and no loaded funds cost money. Period. The problem with not looking at loaded funds is that you skip a huge section of the market that has some of the best performing investments. Also, if you look at performance (I don't mean Money Magazine, I mean Lipper or Morningstar that compares funds to peer groups), the top funds are loaded funds.

Now if you want to get a little more advanced, I wouild suggest Exchange Traded Funds over mutual funds. They are essentially mutual funds but are traded like stocks. They get the benefits of diversification but have the tax benefits because their turnover isn't as great.

As far as buy and hold, I am a cyclical investor. I pull out of the market and go into other investments from May 1 through October 31 every year. These months are the times that the market generally doesn't perform as well. I've missed on a few rallys but for the most part I've done well (missed a 300 point drop since May 1!). Buy and holders still can do very well, but to be in one asset class isn't very smart in the long run.

4. Moving your money into a foreign country is dangerous. While as of late you may be in good position, US Dollars and Euros are the standard currency of business. Places like Brazil, Colombia, Costa Rica, Argentina, all pose possible currency risk problems.

While your dollar may not be worth as much against the Real some days, over time you are over exposed to wild fluctuations.

Of course you are not taking any more risk than the average Brazilian, but the point is that you are an American that may eventually have to or want to return.

5. 18%!!! Nice. The currency is fairly stable now in Brazil from what I understand. Why not move all of your money to a Brazilian CD? What is the inflation rate like now? I suspect that the inflaction rate is close to 18%, thats how CD's generally work. So you are just keeping up with inflation. Not a recepie for long term success. Maybe CD's are different in Brazil?

6. I would like to retire in Medellin Colombia because of the weather. I don't like humidity or excessive heat. Panama and Rio are generally too hot for me. Sure I could get used to it, but why? Colobmia isn't lacking hot girls.

I am having a major problem getting a residency visa in Colombia. I may be forced to choose another country. If so, I will take Panama over Rio. Don't get me wrong, Rio blows Panama away with the quality of sex. I just felt it more difficult to meet non-pros in Rio when I lived there. The weather is a toss up. I also think Panama City is much more livable than Rio in terms of safety, banking, transportation, etc.

Don't want to argue the issue, read my posts on Panama for why I think that.

7. BT I agree that risk tolerance and age are not the only factors, but age is the main factor if you look at any financial planning publication.

I currently run a business that generates about $3 Million in revenue a year. Now thats not all going in my pocket!!! (I wish). But what I can tell you is that when I move to my final destination, I'm not going to want to do anything that ellaborate to make money. I'll probably be a financial planner for expats, teach English, maybe just volunteer for charitable organizations. I no longer want the headaches.

So your advice is good for those trying to make a living while overseas. But I think many of us don't fall into this category. Most of us will have our investments and we'll work to keep in shape mentally. Diversification of assets is the best way to keep you going and growing.

Great advice on your last comment. Fortunately I don't trust anyone with my money. Nobody! So I am less succeptable to swindlers than most.

(Message edited by sniper on May 30, 2006)

Moving all your money a foreign country is not so dangerous if you are going to be spending all of your money in the foreign currency. Actually, the opposite is true. I know some guys that leave all their money in the US and go to the ATM. I do not recommend this for two reasons. First there are limits on the ATM machine. So if you want to buy something expensive, then you have to go to the ATM machine multiple times. You are also getting hit with a lot of ATM charges. Secondly, you are truly exposing yourself to currency risk like this.

I can't comment on Rio vs Panama since I have never been to Panama, but it is not hard to meet non pro's in Rio either.

18% interest rates are definitely a reality. Brazil has some of the highest interest rates in the world. Their president Lula, has done a great job at attracting foreign capital. This has strengthened the real, and fortunately has not reduced the interest rates, yet.

I retired when I was 39, and some financial planner showed me a chart at what my risk tolerance should be based on my age. This was in 1999 and he wanted to move all of my savings into stock. I did not listen to him, and I am sure glad since right after that the .com bubble burst.

One other thing that I like about Brazil over Colombia and Panamá. Brazil is quickly becoming a world power. Their energy policy is solid, and the country has fantastic natural resources. I bought property here, and I feel very confident that this is a sound investment.

Sniper, you should have no problem getting visas for Colombia, nobody else I have helped in the past has, but they all started the process in Colombia not from overseas.

I am busy on two other projects at the moment, so haven't started on the company to help foreigners get visas for Colombia yet.

But I have several meetings with my lawyer, his company is the best legal firm in Ctg, he has been researching about different visas in Colombia for foreigners over the last couple of months at my request and is finding out a lot of usefull information, things that I had never even heard of before, all of them positive.

So if you have no luck on your trip to Medellin, drop me a line, I should be ready by then.

As to leaving all your income in a diversified portfolio in your home Country, I would disagree, if you believe the laws where you have chosen to retire to are OK, I would over time invest some of your money in that Country, for a source of income, you are taking more risk by not doing that, seeing as you live there and therefore buy things in their local currency.

An extreme example of this is Singapore, I lived there as a kid and there where 14 Singaporian dollars to the pound, now there are just three.

Hunter

We had a chat and a long discuss thread on a similar topic a while back - what jobs allow/provide/require travel to mongering destinations and how to get them. That's probably the best route for guys who aren't ready for retirement or aren't rich enough to retire at this point. "Mongering on the company dime" is what I've always called it!

This would be a great topic for an organized chatroom event.

Great subject with some good ideas. I am always playing around with the notion of leaving the cesspool that California has become.

Two quick points. Correct me if I am wrong but the 80k exclusion on US taxes if you legally reside outside of the US does not apply on investment income. And you have to have a valid residency in whatever country you are living it to exclude the 80k on earned income.

Another issue that always holds me back is the fear of being locked out of the US sometime in the future. I am talking about the returning and no longer being able to afford anything because of overheated realestate markets, out of control medical costs, etc. Right now that doesn't bother me because of how I view the future of this country but you never know.

One last point that ties into the preceding paragraph and what you said about always being an American to the people around you. I feel that the US is in a serious economic and social unraveling. And this didn't start with Bush either but has been going on for several decades now. At the same time you have increased violence and chaos in many parts of the world. The idea of finding a place to survive an uncertain future is a good one but don't make the mistake of thinking your new host country, and your neighbors, are going to view you the same if things really go down the tubes. An extreme example would be for those who live in Mexico. It wouldn't take much for those happy smiling people to turn on you like a pack of dogs if the fear of retaliation were to suddenly disappear.

I asked my accountant about the 80K exclusion, and he told me that three conditions must apply:

1. You must earn the money abroad. In my case, my company still earns in the US.

2. Your company must have a presence in the country. Kind of ties in with #1, but it makes me think that this is for people that are paying taxes in the foreign country.

3. You must be in the foreign country more than 300 days per year.

Therefore, he told me that I do not apply. Another thing to think through is medical. Whenever I go back to the US, I schedule appointments with my doctor and dentist. I just prefer to do these type of things in English, plus right now I don't have health insurance in Brazil. It is easy and inexpensive to get, but I just have not bothered.

That said, just going to the doctor without a health plan is damn expensive! I went for a consult and some blood work a few weeks ago, and it ran me over R$1000. It would have run me $20 (which is my copay) in the US.

I recently read (within the last few weeks) that Congress passed a bill that takes away alot of the benefits of the 80K exclusion. I believe it has either been signed, or will be signed and become law. I don't know the details, but this is certainly something anyone considering a move based on the exclusion (which at one time I was) should look into.

BT is correct, the US is interested in earned income more than anything. Investment income is passive.

Still subject to tax in the US, but not usually in the foreign country.

I really disagree about how to keep your money, that being said, to each his own. Just look at what happened when Argentina was having problems in the 90's. Anyway, just be careful.

I can understand the fear about being locked out, if you want, just buy a rental property in the US and have it managed by a company that you really can trust to manage it properly. Then you'll have another place to go if you decide international living isn't for you.

On the subject of health insurance. I just think its worth the money to have it in the country you reside. Despite the cost of healthcare.

You never know if you are going to be in some horrific accident where you will need the best Doctors available. I can tell you, most of the time those Doctors are going to want someone that will pay top dollar. You may or may not be in a position to do that.

On fears of persecution for being an American, I guess that could be a problem. But I do believe that most countries can differentiate you from your country. Even more so than the US. We seem to be the one's with hangups about foreigners.

Just ask anyone thats Muslim living in the US. Believe it or not, most Muslims are not terrorists. But try to tell that to Billy Bob from Kentucky!

I am going to sign up for health insurance this week. Health care costs are very small. I can get a plan for about $R200 per month. Whereas in the States, my company is paying for me $350/month. Like you said, it is just a good insurance policy should I get hit by a bus.

I agree with LA Guy. I am not going to use the 80K exclusion, and I certainly would not base living abroad based on this exclusion because it very well might go away.

To be honest, I have moved only a small portion of my assets to Brazil. I really wish I had moved more when the real was at 3:1, but that is hindsight. To the extent that you move a bunch of money immediately and you are happy with the exchange rate, you are effectively shielding yourself from exhange rate fluctuations. That said, in my case, I am cool if the real is at 1:1 or at 3:1.

I still maintain a residence in the US. I have my car, two satellite dishes, lawn service, two telephone lines, internet. The whole works. I love the United States, and I will always be an American (even if I don't agree with our governments policies). So when I come back, I want to feel like I am at home, and not just visiting a foreign country.

And how would you be able to "sling" in Brasil if you didn't keep at least one satellite dish or cable TV connection going in the States? The case has been made.

I have a sling box but I have not used it in months. It was really nice to watch the NFL playoffs on my big screen down here though.

Lately, I am watching American Idol and Bellísima. That's all I got time for.

“Now consider a front-load at 5%. You invest $1K and on the first day you have $950 sitting in the account. Theoretically, you can grow that $950 investment into $1,000,000 and will have paid only $50 in fees...just on-time when you started...not nickel'd and dimed forever.”

Alec, I see where you are getting confused. With all funds, load or no-load, you pay a management fee. This usually varies between .5% and 2% per year. So the example you cited above is incorrect, because you assume that after one pays a front-end load, you’re done for good. But they don’t work that way. You pay the load (if it’s a front-end fund; some are back-end, which means you pay when you cash out), PLUS the management fee every year. In addition, most load funds also charge yearly 12b-1 fees, which are used to cover marketing costs. These fees usually vary from .25 to .75% per year.

Loads are commissions that are paid to the broker/advisor that sold the fund to the client. Theoretically, when you are in this kind of fund, you are paying extra for advice from the broker – they explain the fund to you, and advise you on when to sell, like they would a stock. That’s the theory at least.

When investors get a portfolio as large as your theoretical $1M, they would be nuts to be in mutual funds (and so would their advisor). There is a threshold that gets crossed as wealth grows in which it makes much more sense to be invested in individual stocks, bonds, etc., rather than paying management fees for mutual funds. Most advisors know what this threshold is, and will advise their clients accordingly when it is reached. As Sniper mentioned, when you get to a certain level, new investment opportunities are also opened up to you that aren’t available to those with smaller portfolios.

Personally, I think mutual funds are a ripoff, especially load funds. In light of the diverse offerings of ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds) that I mentioned in the earlier post, savvy investors should be switching out of mutuals and into ETFs if they want to stay in broad-based indexes (as opposed to placing their entire portfolio in individual stocks). ETFs do have management fees, but they are anywhere from a half to a quarter of mutual funds. Vanguard now has a full lineup of ETFs, some with fees as little as .10 to .15% if I remember correctly. A great advantage of ETFs is that they trade like a stock. They are priced throughout the day, and you can trade them at any time the market is open. I think there are some 180-odd ETFs now. I recently read on the wires that a lot of advisors are starting to put their client’s money into them; some have switched completely over. You’ll be seeing a lot more of them in the coming years.

Now having said this, I won’t dispute that there are some load funds that may be worthwhile investments for some people. Their returns may be great, even after all the fees are deducted, and you figure in the sales charge. However, for the general investing public, they are ripoffs. And wherever there are great load funds, there are usually equally great non-load funds. And these days, increasingly ETFs.

Mutual funds are not that great tax-wise, so unless they are in a 401(k) or IRA, you'll pay some taxes on them just about every year. I don't think I've put much new money in mutual funds since ETFs hit the scene bigtime. My general exception to this is small-cap mutual funds - I own Buffallo small-cap and mid-cap and the returns the last three years or so has been amazing. Also, targeted mutual funds for international or particular market segments are useful, I stick to no-load funds like Fidelity for those instruments. However, for the vast majority of people, a few individual stocks and some ETFs that track the Dow, S&P 500, mid-cap, small-cap and international indexes is a good and cheap way of tracking the market as a whole, which has seemingly turned out to be a good way of doing things.

One giant advantage to mutual funds is that they are easy and you can make monthly or bi-monthly or whatever contributions and as long as you stick with no-loads, you're costs to add additional money is about zero. With ETFs, you'll pay commissions and you have to remember to make your purchases and have the patience and tenacity to do so every time.

A very interesting thread, to me the real question is flexibility. If your single you have tremendous options. Personally given the possibility I'd choose an approach similiar to bluestraveller. While I dont have the pure net assets (roughly 1 million) or income (just over 280k taxable last year) I have the luxury of a consultancy that is truely portable. I'd probably buy a place (if favorable circumstances permit) or rent with the idea of staying June thru Sept {my favorite time of year} and sprinkling in a few visits otherwise. Given a reasonable exchange I'd move 250k or so into reals. Assuming (wishing for 2.5/1) that would give me $R600,000+ which should yield about $R90,000 a year in "rio money" without seriously depleting my financial base. since I'd work in Rio my expendatures (after the initial mongering{I typically bring $1000/day for mongering) would probably be $R7000 or less....

so my 4 month primary stay would run $R12,000 for month 1 and 21,000 for 2-4....so roughly R$35,000. My income would be less but still ~$50,000 (US) for that time....subtract all my travel/housing (legit erite off as i've done business in brazil for 15+ years) and I'd still net out nicely. My total assets in brazil would gain roughly 8% a year (at current rates) and provide "self funding" + principle growth that would allow me to "retire" in Brazil (6 months) in 15 years as a "brazilianaire"...with no further out lay of capital investment and without effecting my continued wealth creation here in the US. In effect a quarter million $$$ "life share that self funds and returns 200% of principle in 15 years...

A no brainer if I was single, obviously any such strategy has risk...but the deck in Brazil is stacked to the wealthy...and for a small reasonably small investment you can play to...

I have an innovative solution to the mutual fund tax problem. Just carry forward more capital losses than you could possibly ever wipe off the books, let's say by investing heavily in the NASDAQ when is was around 5,000, like I did. Now I can invest away in mutuals with full tax immunity!

Laguy,

One thing I learned long ago, losing money sucks. Unless it was a short swap of some sort, for personal taxes, I would rather pay taxes on everything gaining than being able to offset gains with losses. Losing half your wad or more isn't completely brushed over by the tax offsets, right? If you were like the rest of us, when the averages were taking the beatdown from 2000-2002, you weren't thinking "gee, my tax liabilities for the next five years just went away", you were probably thinking "fuck, I just lost half my shit".

Yes, I look forward with great anticipation to the day (hypothetical perhaps) when I will be able to pay taxes on capital gains again.

The other thing to consider is what you will do if things do not go according to plan. What if the you lose your job? What if the exchange rate takes a serious turn for the worse? What if you get very sick? Etc.

I have seen it so often. Bad things happen, and people start spiraling downward. They fall into depression. They refuse to go back to the United States. Some turn to a life of crime, trafficking women, conning Gringos. Others start making porn movies. Or perhaps snaking R$5 from their friends every chance they get. Dón't get me wrong. I am not judging anyone, but you just have to think through how far you want to stoop to continue to live the dream.

I think the issue is defining the "dream". Giving up your "professional identity" and comprimizing your earning power isnt really a "dream" its a disaster in the making. When I actually run and rerun the math its interesting. I average 2 trips a year....both are a week and lets say $4,000 {I bring more but never seem to chew thru it all)...so thats 8k a year. So at todays rates a 40k investment would yield $R91,688 (XE.com). At 18% that returns just over $R16,500 a year (or roughly $7,200 US). So if we assumed I would pay airfare via US funds and use my brazilain investment for in country expenses I'd be saving $6,000 US ($1000 ave cost of travel) to invest annually and still have a $R8000 real budget per week. Now if you invested your 6K in your "brazil fund" you'd still have all your "US" finances status quo (after your initial outlay) but each year your brazil "fun nut" would grow....

You'd need to build a spread sheet to work it out but of the top of my head you'd be able to leverage a reasonable cash position in brazil relatively quickly with no actual net drain on your resources beyond the "start up". Assuming a 2.0 rate you'd get $R12,000 additional for your 6k...at 15% you'd get $R1800...so assuming you maintain a 5 year continuality while you learn the country and laungage and develop a real plan you'd have roughly $R200k in the bank in addition to whatever you'd normally save in the US. Giving you enough income to live in Brazil 3-4 months a year at no cost...

One thing to consider is whether interest rates in Brazil are going to remain as high as they have been recently. If I recall correctly, interest rates have fallen a few percentage points the last few months. Although the rates have been relatively high for a long time, the present government's economic policies are reminiscent of Clinton's, or so it appears. Although they govern from the left, their economic policies are geared towards fiscal conservatism, and hence the possibility interest rates will continue to gradually decline. On the other hand, with an election coming up, there may be a fit of governmental spending which could drive rates up.

Whether it is possible to lock in a 15 - 18 percent rate long term is an issue I have no information about, but would be critical to planning over a five-year (or longer) term.

If you talk to just about any GDP, they cannot stand Lula, but honestly, I think that he has done a pretty good job from an economic viewpoint, although he has done little on his promises that got him elected plus a few good scandals on top.

That said, foreign capital is entering the company like never before, keeping the real strong, and inflation in check. This is probably his major success. My view is that they would rather see the real weaken, than decrease interest rates right now. That said, everyone buys on credit in Brazil. I am amazed at this. This means that small decreases in interest rates could result in large increases in consumer spending, which could create a nice economic boom. So where interest rates go, is any one's guess.

I think you have to assume fluctuation....the real wont likely hit 4 or 1 but it'll bounce between 1.75 and 3.2 (just a guess)...I'd say interst rates will also move within a double digit band. (10-20 lets say)...

From the responses I got on the SA chat I think the big problem would be even opening an account with out living there. That changes the investment equation significantly since your buying or renting property....given a suitable work around it looks like a no brainer, basically a brazilian "lifeshare" vs a time share with zero recurring cost and a 100% or greater "cashout" (not certain but highly probable)

Hey Blue,
"As an American living overseas, you become a target. People want your money. Not just the locals but also Americans that live in that country. Many are con men. I learned this lesson the hard way."
Without getting too personal, what is the nature of these cons that you referred to?

I agree with the ETF comment, if you look at my post, I also talk about them. They are good but not managed in the way that a mutual fund is managed.

ETF's are great taxwise. Not a lot of turnover. Very efficient.

But I have been very successful with some fully loaded mutual funds that are professionally managed. This is particularly good for emerging markets. I agree though that a fully loaded mutual fund that targets an index is very stupid. But there are very few funds that even get close to EUROX and PRLAX for emerging markets, load and no load.

But the real importance is that you need to do something. Even the most loaded fund that performs is better than nothing. Do what suits you. I begrudge nobody!

But since up until recently I made money selling securities, I feel that if you are going to have a person that is going to help you meet your financial goals, that person deserves to get paid. We only get paid when you buy, not when you sell (at least I didn't).

Its those unethical people that churn your account for commissions that are the real problem. But on a $250,000 investment, I would get paid about $12,500 MAX, more realistically is about $7500. I can tell you that most of the time, I put people in investments that made up that in the first few months.

Now I have 15 advisors working for me. We sell insurance primarily but also sell securities. If you are a do it yourselfer...more power to you. Most people are not. We provide a service, we deserve to be paid.

That aside, I think my main post was for at least my dream is to get away from the hustle and bustle and live what I call the Jimmy Buffett/Hugh Hefner lifestyle. Play hard, don't work hard.

I realize that giving up your professional identity is a problem for some, keeping active and engaged is what I need. I might stay in the financial services business when I finally make it out of the country, but only if I can't find anything else.

That being said, as in the original "Living the Dream" thread from one year ago, its great to see this exchange.

With technology today, there are so many jobs that could literally be done from the beach, it's amazing more people don't do it. Brasil and Argentina are too far for the most part, but most of the Caribbean and Central America are a 2-3 hour flight from Miami. Add an hour or so either way and you're that close to Atlanta, Charlotte, Houston and Dallas. All major airline hubs, so that if you do need to attend a meeting once a month or just in case something happens and you need to get some facetime in, you can hop a flight and be there maybe even same day.

Actually, Brasil and Argentina arent too far, because of the redeye flights. If you're in Rio and you get a call at 5:00 in the afternoon that you need to be in a major East Coast city by lunchtime the next day, that's easy. You can grab the late American or Delta flights out, be at Miami or Atlanta by 5:30 AM, through customs and on a connecting flight by 7:30, and be in Boston, New York, Philly, DC, whereever by 11:00 AM. About as fast as if you were already in the US.

For me Brazil was a logical choice because of the differences in time zones to the US. At most, during daylight savings down here there is 6 hour difference with the west coast and 3 hour with the east coast. If I work in the pm, I can catch both coasts. Compare that to Europe or Thailand and it becomes tenable if I want to talk to the US every day.

StayAwayJoe,

I think Bluestraveller is too much of a gentleman to say anything. The best thing that Blue is able to do is make you aware that these exists. Some of the perpetrators probably read this board as well. I know several people who have been stung by con men (american and european). I won't name names either. Be care of any investment where the Gringo has a great investment deal. Check out his reputation, who's name the investment will appear in. Always ensure that there is a good business plan with reliable references, I will not invest in Brazil except for what I have already done.

My saying is "Make your money in the US and spend it in Brazil."

My comment was more general. The lure of Brazil is very strong and it attracts all kinds of people. It is quite common after one has visited Brazil for the first or second time, that they immediately begin planning their next trip. This is the lure of Brazil. As this threat title suggests, this is the dream.

My point is that it is a two edged sword. Many are so caught up in the dream, that they are willing to do virtually anything not to lose the dream.

I am not writing this to make people aware of one particular individual, but to make people aware of the other side of "Living the Dream."

I'm curious Bluestraveller about your perspective on the lure of Brazil. I understand well the lure of the garotas, but the danger factor makes Rio in particular a hard place for me to consider paradise (perhaps my comments represent a Rio-centric view of Brazil but most people of this board who consider moving to Brazil are specifically interested in Rio); yes, Rio has beautiful scenery, but it is hard to fully enjoy it when one has to always be on full alert against hidden dangers.

Also, from a business standpoint I find dealing with Brasileiros frustrating, since their professional standards are not up to what one typically finds in first world countries IMHO; even the Sao Paulo business people have too much of a Carioca way of approaching business, i.e., not real diligent about getting things done right.

The music is great, and certain aspects of the culture I like (e.g., generally friendly so long as you're not dealing with a thug, or walking in a crosswalk against traffic--a sure death wish) but the police and judicial system have an unacceptable level of corruption, as do the politicians, and this can affect the person on the street. Also, the disparity between rich and poor is so great that even committed Republicans can become offended by it if they allow themselves to think about the situation (sorry about the political reference).

So, my question is, what do you see as the lure of Brazil that attracts all kinds of people? Keep in mind, this question is coming from someone who has spent about 1/2 a year in Brazil the last two years so I have more than a passing interest in this question.

My version of paradise would have the weather of San Diego, but with water temps like the ocean off of Miami. All the girls would be top-tier garotas and I wouldn't have to spend a dime to fuck them. There would be a Dunkin Donuts down the street for breakfast, my BMW would never need gas and my DirecTV would be free.

Cat, that sounds close-- just add a never ending bull market (or another constant cash flow)and yes, we would indeed have paradise!

perhaps govt subsidized poontang? ya, add that to the list.

Rio is definitely a dangerous place. The killings are daily and numerous. They also target tourists. There is no doubt, this represents a huge minus. I try to minimize my risks by staying away from Copacabana in the evenings. Also, in the day whenever possible.

That said, the pluses for me far outweigh the minuses. The beaches are considered to be some of the best in the world. Carnaval. Running around the lake. I have a nice apartment in a great location that I bought at a great price. There are some fantastic restaurants in here also.

At this point, I have no regrets on my decision. My comments however were about many others that have bitten by the Rio bug. They have bitten so hard that they have sacrificed everything just to be here. You would never know it but many of these guys are just flat out broke. That's my point. Many guys may think they are living the dream, but being broke in paradise in not one of my dreams.

I've lived in Rio off and on for over 20 years. I would live there even without the garota action. But violence has escalated incredibly from when I lived there the first time. Drugs, economy, and political corruption has taken a deep toll. I live near Copacabana, but do not venture there late at night. In fact, I try to stay off the streets after 10PM.

Rio has ALOT to offer. For me, it is one of the cultural meccas in the new world: music, dance, theatre, literature (if you speak and read portuguese) are all great. It is one of the intellectual and cultural capitals of south america so alot to keep someone busy -- if you choose.

The biggest concern for me is the utter despair of the uneducated working class. Many brazilian drop out of high school, have children early, and are forced to work menial jobs at "salario minimo". I cannot count the number of people who should be retired, but are working in bakeries, warehouses, kiosk, etc. If you are 18 with no future prospect except for salario minimo, what are your alternatives? For quick buckss? Drugs, prostitution, jogo de bicho, etc.?

I agree with BT, alot of americas are in Rio, some are retired, some work there, many are trying to live out a dream. This sometimes means scratching out a living and they can be happy with that.

My only word of advice is do your research, know your financial limitations, evaluate the risk you are willing to take, and don't make an emotional decision unless you can afford a "life style" decision. I heard of alot of people selling their homes, cashing out of 401K and retirement plans, getting divorces, splitting up with girlfriends, getting involved in high risk ventures (or what they thought as low risk), only to be disappointed.

Rio is beautiful in alot of ways -- it is also very ugly in others. Tom Jobim (great brazilian composer) once said "Rio is not for amateurs".

http://www.fool.com/news/commentary/2006/commentary06060605.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y

. . .but that couple wasnt thinking of one thing. Ben Bernanke. Imagine a huge college party. Lots of women, lots of beer. Everyone having fun. Thats how the stock market has been for a while with TIE and HANS going up literally 15 times in a year turning a $10k investment into $150,000. Then a cop shows up, Officer Bernanke.

Everytime something like this happens, I scream in my head "BUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!". I supported Bush, at first, but then things started happening. The planes crashed into the towers and I thought that Bush was our man. He sent troops to Afghanistan and it made me feel better.

Then one day I looked on TV and saw him threatening Iraq and I said "what?" My roommate at the time and I could not figure out the entire plan. I guess it was all downhill from there. . .

One of the points of the article was that the S&P 500 is up 70% of the time. So very true. However, the article took a starting date of last August. Instead, start on Jan 1, 2000. I don't know what your yearly return would have been since then but I do know that we are still down over 13% from my starting date. Last year was almost flat, the year before was around 11% up, 2004 was a very good year, and 3,2,1,0 were all duds if I remember right. In the long run everything always works out but it is the short stretches that can kill you.

IE-- Ben is off to a bad start for the individual investor, I hope he wakes up and smells the carnage sometime sooner rather than later instead of trying to keep up false pretenses as being an inflation fighter. Not sure how this lends itself to bush and iraq, but...

Tight fit, he's looking at long term averages ...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/krantz/2006-01-11-average-returns_x.htm, not timing it on a per year basis.

Since 2000, I'm up, but I have a blend of small, mid, and large cap domestic and intl in retirement accounts.

My investments are spread across the board, but I am completely divested from the 1st trading day in May to the last in October.

So I'm only invested November to April generally in the stock market. I then move to hard money lending on real estate. I focus on private money investments that pay about 10-12% and is backed by real estate where the owners have a lot of equity but shitty credit.

Its worked quite well for a long time. I have pulled about 15% per year since 1990.

My accountant thinks I'm nuts because I pay more taxes then, but my I quoted returns are AFTER TAX. So the proof is in the results, even if it does make my accountant insane.

As far "Living the Dream". I dropped the idea of moving to Rio a long time ago.

Don't get me wrong, I love Rio. Garota sex is the best in the world. Can't be beat anywhere.

However I don't think Rio is a livable city, too much is going on where a Gringo can be put in danger.

If I were to move to Brazil, I would probably go to one of the less touristy cities, Recife or Porto Allegre (Spelling?). I've never been to PA but I have been told that the girls are less mercenary and the town is much safer. I've never had a problem in Recife either. The scene is different but still fun.

I actually believe that the presence of a lot of Americans is a bad thing. We have a tendancy to overpay for things and drive up the local economy. The Gringo tax (as it is sometimes called) is often double what locals pay.

I am heavily interested in Medellin. Now I have a distinct feeling that Colombia will become the next Brazil in terms of sex tourism. I really don't like that in terms of living there. I hope to be well established long before that happens.

However we have a tendancy as Americans to like the beach, so I am hoping that CTG will become the choice destination.

If you have read my posts in the past, I was leaning heavily towards Panama City. But when my 75 year old uncle decided to buy a condo in Panama and I read that there are 30,000 Americans living in Panama City. And most importantly Casinos that will take my money that should be used for living expenses. I knew I needed to go to a different place.

In short, my "dream" is to live of my investments in the USA, live in a place with a healthy non-pro scene, a developed but not overinflated pro scene, stable government, pro-american government, stable economy, the same property rights for foreigners than citizens, great weather, and a much lower cost of living.

To me, Medellin fits that bill. Rio doesn't fit FOR ME. It breaks my heart because Garotas rock in bed.

Funny, after I finished this last post, I went to my performance chart for this calendar year. Mind you I pulled out on May 4th this year. I'm right around 12% before taxes.

I have completely missed the downward cycle that we have been experiencing since mid May. To be clear, the market was up over last year up until mid May. We have essentially been experiencing a mini crash.

If you look at history since the 1930's, May through October are generally the worst stock market months. Not ALWAYS, but much of the time.

So if you did nothing but invest in the S&P over those years, your average return is about 11%. BUT if you were to invest in the S&P from late October to the first trading day in May over the same period (using no other indicators) and putting your money in a money market the rest of the time, your return goes up to over 20%.

There are certain indicators that can even increase this but I am just not that good! Pull taxes from the mix and you are still over 15%.

My target income level requires only 7% given my current asset level. Easily done with the hard money lending that I do as mentioned earlier.

If you want to PM me, I'll shoot you a web link for a company that does this for you using a mutual fund type of instument (it has paid nearly 14% for the past 15 years and has never had a defaulted loan).

Now give me some of that Brazillian 18% checking action and I can retire now! As long as the Real stays healthy.

Sniper, excellent results. Rather than a simple comparision of yearly return - your net tho, a more intertesting one would be your return vs. dollar cost averaged investments (e.g., bi-weekly and/or monthly), thereby adding to positions on cyclical downturns.

Perhaps but since I stay in the same investment for the most part, I actually tend to sell at close to the high for the year and rebuy at close to the low.

I mean, its not 100% foolproof, but it has worked for some time.

There are some other things to help you to run in and out of the market. But at some point you are going to get burned with fees to keep on rebuying and selling.

I prefer to just keep my eyes open around the market during those times of the year and invest accordingly. Often I use the MACD index to see if there are buying or selling signals at the time. If there are, I act accordingly. However real pros do this constantly all year. I just don't have the time or skill to do that.

I can tell you that I missed most of the down cycle during the meltdown in the late 90's. Although I have also missed some mid-summer rally's as well.

Institutional investors do this all of the time. Even some of the buy and hold gurus really only talk about buy and hold. They all market time. Just look at Warren Buffet's trading history with Berkshire Hathaway. They buy and sell constantly.

Buy and hold is for those who don't know what they are doing, have particular tax situations that would kill them if they were to jump in and out of the market, or just don't want to mess with it for an additional 4-5% return after tax.

Frankly, I will probably go 100% hard money lending when I retire. Its predictable, fairly safe if you know how to pick loans or loan companies, it pays well (12% usually), and most importantly it pays monthly. I get a check for my loan interest on the 20th of every month like clockwork.

I also encourage people to look at www.prosper.com. You can get into hard money lending as well. Its not quite as stable ond low risk as mortgage lending, but if you follow the program and make a lot of small loans. You can make up to 22% and you don't service the loan.

Anyway, if you have a strong base, you can really reduce your performance requirements and live quite well.

OK I've received a few messages with the investment that I've talked about.

Rather than individually answering them, go to this site http://www.rescapfunds.com/Default.asp.

I think its the best investment of this type. It is actually allowed into retirement plans because they have their shit together. Most investments of these types are run by the seat of their pants, not this one, its really good. There may be a waiting list to get into it but its worth the wait.

I am not an expert at stocks but I always felt my return never matched what is posted in mags.
For example, let's say you invest $100 in russian stocks and you are so lucky and you get 100% return that year so you are at $200. then you get greedy so you stay another year and stocks are down 50% that year so you dont feel so bad as you're back at $100. But magazine or mutual fund will advertise saying wow we're number 1 as we averaged 25% return over the last 2 years but my f. account is at 0% return.
Am I incorrect?

Look at the fine print, its all about the time period they are quoting. When is it measured? They also show return without fees (12b1) and broker comissions if any. They are not supposed to without a disclaimer.

They are supposed to quote 1 5 10 and lifetime stats.

The best source for return info is Morningstar but even Money Magazine (not the ads, the stats in the back) are more accurate because they are calendar year usually.

If I recall correctly, it shows 1 month 3 month, and 1 year. Maybe 5 year also, I don't remember.

"Buy and hold is for those who don't know what they are doing, have particular tax situations that would kill them if they were to jump in and out of the market, or just don't want to mess with it for an additional 4-5% return after tax."

I am seeing a lot more short-term investing and active trading lately. Actually, Im doing a lot more active trading myself recently.

The end of easy money in the real estate market is now upon us and people are cycling back into the stock market. Its not a bad thing because I will stop hearing all these bozos at Starbucks hawking about their 2 bedroom house that they believe to be a million dollar investment. I dreaded visiting a Starbucks in Southern California because I would always hear these stories over and over again.

The difference between the active traders of today and the ones of the 2000 bubble is that the ones today are by far more educated. I can see this in the message boards. Traders are more aware of such topics as the VIX, CBOE put/call ratios, candlestick charts, P/Es, financials, etc. The investors of today are by far the most educated so far.

I love the stock market, I hate real estate. Real Estate is boring. Navigating and trading the stock market is fun and requires research. When your right, your richly rewarded. When your wrong, your given a hard spanking. I've been on both sides of the coin.

People have money and they need to put it somewhere. In the 90s it was stocks, the last five years it's been in houses. now nobody wants to buy a house since the prices are high, so I expect rental prices to start to shoot up and I think a lot of money will go back into stocks. The last couple of weeks have been rough but unless oil spikes a lot more than it has, things should be ok for stocks for the next year or two.

I do predict an outright recession by the middle of 2008, as interest rates continue to kick in. The Bushies have borrowed all they can and the debt is really piling up, the money from the tax cuts has all been pissed away at this point and we'll be in Iraq for a long time, so no relief there. Basically, two years out, we're in another small yet painful recession, and no tax cut is going to do shit this time.

what tax cut? They keep tapping me for more cash every year. I'm hoping AMT is finally gone soon.

As for trading, I don't close quality positions--I add to them on major down days. I've starting picking up defensive stocks C, boeing, etc and have been eyeing my fav pharmas, but they are still a little pricey in this market. Cramer had a pretty good show on Mad Money this week regarding tactics for this market if anyone caught it.

Awwww Jim Cramer. I monitor his shows on occasion and have traded the "Cramer Effect".

This purely speculative day-trade involves small cap low volume stocks that he chooses to front and center during his show. Emphasis placed on low volume small cap. It doesnt work for larger players.

There will be a spike during afterhours trading as soon as he states it on the air. The spike must go above today's high. Then, in the morning, there will be a sharp and sudden gap down when the market opens. It will capitulate until it reaches some resistance. Then there will be the spike. The spike will then gap down to a new low. After that, its unpredictable. There might be one more spike and sometimes a end of day rally. Sometimes the effect lasts longer then a day. However, most of his picks will always head to the dumper sooner or later.

I will give him credit that he does sometime pick some good long term runners, but there have been too many accidents for me to put him on top.

The best effect is when a stock is considerably shorted like BOOM with over 50% of the float shorted. It ended up in a big short squeeze with the stock up 5 points in one day. It almost looked like a tech IPO the first day out. That was an exciting day indeed.

IE, I haven't bought any of his picks, but watch for entertainment purposes

I’ve been retired nearly five years (now in mid-50s), sold the house and everything else and now live abroad. My original plan was to move to the sticks in Brazil and take up with a hillbilly gal I met. I knew when I was planning it that there was the possibility it wouldn’t work out, but didn’t put to much effort into a backup plan (positive thinking, right?). Well, that didn’t work out, so plan B emerged, which I called “taking to the wind.”
I am looking for one or two locations to live. I’ve been moving back and forth between South America and Southeast Asia. I had hoped to have found my places to settle by now, but not yet. I have two front-runners but still actively looking. I have certain criteria, which I am constantly adjusting.

My net worth is much less than Sniper’s and I live on not very much. But my budget allows me to live at a somewhat middle-class level in most of the developing world. This limits me in my travels, as places like Europe, Japan, and North America are out of the question, but I’m not troubled by this.
Visa issues are the central pain in the ass. While we (US passport holders) can do a 6 month total per year in Brazil on a tourist visa, a retirement visa requires you to change US$2,000 per month, and I live on much less than that. There’s a few countries where Americanos need no visa: show up at the border and get a three-month stamp. When it runs out you can either get it extended or leave the country for a few days and come back in. This is the best kind of deal I’ve come across yet.
BTW, if there is anyone reading this doing/has done the Brazil retirement visa PM me.

I have one rule I recommend to you all: never buy anything in a foreign country that you can’t take with you, unless you are able to accept losing it. IMO, buying real estate in a country where you are not a citizen, whether top economic tier or Third World, is out of the question. That money could be better put to work as part of the investment fund. Also bear this in mind when buying a car.
As a non-citizen you have no rights, none, zilch. You are a guest, and no one invited your ass anyway. A certain incident while traveling in my younger days registered this reality loud and clear. So you think the worst that could happen is they escort you to the frontier (or airport) with nothing more than clothes on your back? No sir, that could be the BEST-CASE scenario! Sure you can take it up with the embassy, US State Dept, hire lawyers, etc, and good luck to you.

I am really surprised to read of all you guys putting your cash into foreign banks. Interest and exchange rates be damned, I’d be more concerned about the security of my money. Not just from economic meltdown, but for some reason or other your funds are suddenly inaccessible and now subject to a prolonged period of investigation, review, pending periods, etc.
A slimy Buenos Aires realtor was trying to convince me to buy an apartment and sublease it to foreigners, something that appears to be a growing business there these days (and probably overdone by now). Sensing my reluctance, she said with a mixture of defensiveness (like I said, she is Argentine) and cajoling “Why not? What could possibly go wrong?“ and I asked her if she recalled a mere 4 years previous. That shut her up. I was referring to the country’s economic collapse in December 2001.

While living the expat life you’re bound to come across others like yourself, but be careful: you may be living this way by choice, but there’s quite a few out there on the run from the law. Thailand seems to Europe’s trash magnet, while Latin America seems to pull in US rejects. You need to develop a bullshit detector.
As for anyone with a quarrel with Sniper’s concerns about keeping your mind sharp, take a walk around Pattaya during the daytime and witness all those old farang “living the dream.” Paradise seems a bit tarnished. Seems a lot of P-town residents don’t really have the option of returning to Europe for “complicated reasons.”

I also encourage people to look at www.prosper.com. You can get into hard money lending as well. Its not quite as stable ond low risk as mortgage lending, but if you follow the program and make a lot of small loans. You can make up to 22% and you don't service the loan.

FYI I'm making a very goos return at Prosper.com.

Bendejo makes some good points, especially for you Brazil-bound hombres. Always look into what the property rights are for foreigners. My understanding is that you are disadvantaged in Brazil and many parts of SEA.

However if you're destination is Panama or Costa Rica, you don't have much to worry about in terms of your rights. They both have a long history of honoring foreign claims on property.

That being said, if $50K is a lot for you to lose and you are nervous, then don't buy. Also if you don't have a plan to live in one location, then don't buy. I plan to stay in one place and get a small-time job where I live a decent life, but not a life where I have to watch my finances too much.

My view is that as baby boomers start to leave the US for a better life abroad, places like Panama will be overrun by Americans and the price of real estate will skyrocket. Its already happening in Mexico and Costa Rica. Rio and (in my case) Medellin is perceived too dangerous by most baby boomers. Thank God!

On the prosper.com website, look at it. I like the concept. I have not gotten too involved yet, but so far so good. The key is to spread your risk. Senetor, do you agree?

Senator, do you agree?

Yes, I'm a lender on 47 different Prosper loans so far. And so far so good. It also pays to be in on groups that recruit lenders.

This thread has lots of good, high-powered advice applicable to people who have a lot of money.

That's never been me.

I'd like to "live the dream," too. But I just don't see my way clear to ever affording ANY of that stuff. I lost my job about two weeks ago (in fact, they dismissed me just in time for me to rush home and see the opening ceremonies of the World Cup on TV, which would have been a higher priority for me anyway, if you'd given me the option!) and I'm still wondering "what did I do wrong THIS time?"

I'm cursed. Although I don't want to sound like I'm bragging, I would have thought that my skills and abilities would have made it possible for me to develop a profitable life at some point. I mean, really, it's not like I'm an idiot. There aren't major lacunae in my abilities. Just for example (and these points are just to demonstrate that I'm capable of impressing others, and therefore there must be SOMETHING to say for me, SOME kind of merit) I almost got a Rhodes scholarship (made the second-to-final cut), I have a 152 IQ and a Master's from the intellectual navel of the universe (very reputable school; no, I'd rather not be specific on the 'net), but it's in ENGLISH LIT dammit. Not that those things ought to be PROFITABLE (they aren't; I'm living proof of that fact) but at least, they show that I'm not an idiot. I can master a multiple-choice test, or a small internal-combustion engine, or an imaginary four-dimensional cube-like projection, and I type about eighty words a minute, too! These things show me, at the very least, from the most non-subjective point of view possible, that the results I'm getting are non-representative of my skills and abilities. Therefore, my tactics and choices must be poor. Abysmal, in fact.

Here's what I've been doing. I spent ten years trying to get a Ph.D., but my supervisor refused to read my dissertation(s), even though all disinterested other parties said the document(s) would have been good enough for a degree. Then I spent four years bambling about (is that a verb?) in suburban driver-hell Florida, living rent-free at a home owned by my family, making sure the verge was trimmed and basically wondering whether I'd ever have a decent job. And now, two and a half years into THAT job, for which I moved heaven and earth to FINALLY secure and for which I crossed three states and restarted my entire life, "You're not happy here and it's not working out." Well DUH I'm not happy here. It's an entry-level job in an office building! Nobody is happy in an office. DUH DUH DUH. But I'm a lot happier WITH rather than WITHOUT a paycheck, so why does my "happiness" level lead to dismissal instead of a raise? Urgh ...

I'm almost 41 years old now, and yet my latest Social Security statement says I've made less than $50K. Ever. In my life. What gives? Yeesh. Someone help.

No, seriously, I'm just whining. All that business about my IQ? It's just my insecurities flying out onto the page, again. I look at me in the mirror, I think, "Hey, I do good work, I get to work on time, I'm not some dissheveled idiot who can't present himself or his memoranda properly, I contribute to the organization's bottom line, and quite effectively too, I might add. I'm not fucking up, here." And then, SURPRISE! I need to reaffirm my worthiness, every now and then, since nobody else does ...

I'd love some advice about where to turn. I've spoken here (at Club Hombre) about my career peregrinations before, and people have been intelligent and helpful, generally, and it's kind of cathartic for me to divulge emotions on the internet and see where they go. I thought I'd at least found a home, but it turns out I was no match for the political and interpersonal scene that is ... work. NOW what?

I think a monger / hobbyist community is probably the most likely of all places to offer "real" advice rather than "here's the official view as sanctioned by society." Mongers stand outside social strictures and are willing to think for themselves, and to throw off the typical "you have to" and "should" of the culture in which they were raised. In addition, an international monger community like this one tends to have members who are more willing to understand a variety of cultures, and therefore understand the implications and restrictions of their own cultures. Free thinkers.

When I ask mom and dad, of course they say, "get up early and work hard all day" and "they must have fired you because you weren't working hard enough." When I ask career counselors they say, "Do what you love and the money will follow" and of course I respond, "I don't love work. Work sucks. Nobody loves offices. Offices suck." And then the career counselors say, "I can't help you" (in more polite terms), and they have a bit of an angry, almost patronizing sneer, in their tone. "Who are you to say you don't like work?" is their deliberate implication. "Why are you so different from me?" When I ask women they say, "Why can't you get a job? Get a life, LOSER!" I used to think the women were just crassly materialistic (to want men to spend so much time in such a stultifying existence, while they got to spend their days as they wished, in pleasant surroundings, going outdoors whenever they wished, eating when hungry rather than when the clock struck 12, meeting friends, dressing at a leisurely pace, driving around when it was NOT rush hour, going to the gym at an optimal time for their body clock rather than late in the day or at the crack of dawn) and it was more about them, than about me, that they were so shallow, but now I'm starting to believe them. Why indeed CAN'T I get a job, me loser?

Does ANYONE here think work doesn't suck? I'm sorry to hijack this thread, but it's just TOO timely. I want to "live the dream" too! I don't know if that literally means, retiring to Costa Rica when I'm 48 in order to bang a lot of hotties (and not that I'd ever get there by 48, at the current rate). But for me, it's got to mean, paying the rent. Eating. Having an income.

Hell, I'm a bright guy. I guess I just hate business. (Well, not really.) Dollars and offices make my eyes glaze over. (Well, not true. I have an office in my apartment. I tabulate my cash and bank accounts and credit cards to the penny, daily.) People who have agendas confuse me. (Not always. I get that hot chicks are manipulative, for example. And that older formerly hot chicks are angry. And so on.) Organizational structures elude me. (No. One of my doctoral dissertations is about Roman power structures.) There's got to be some way to "contribute" rather than "be a parasite." You'd think that demonstrating that I can be effective, productive, beneficial to an organization's overall profit and success, would actually count for something somewhere. You'd think my country would want someone who wants to serve, who wants the dignity of earning his own way. But nooooo ...

I'm kind of down on the free market. It doesn't seem to be a force for good, really, at least not in MY life. Just as a silly counter-example, if I'd grown up in the Soviet Union in the 1950s, I'd probably have gotten some kind of field-specific training at a very high degree of success-orientation that would have allowed me a highly competitive shot at a career. Their little technical boards would have hooked me up to apparati and run me through standardized tests, found out my mental or physical capacities, assigned me something at a school with dormitories and facilities and more apparati, accounted for the fact that I'm physically a late bloomer and left-handed and good at numbers and interested in philosophy, and I probably would have ended up a well-trained fighter pilot, or soccer physical trainer, or linguist, or navigator, or something.

Something. But here in the USA, all I get is "general" education and "general" failure. What to do ...

I know, I know, many people from other countries would love to have the opportunities that I have. They want to move here and despite their lack of an undergraduate education. They'd love the chance for business success that is offered here, and all they're interested in doing is running a dry-cleaning operation or sewing buttonholes for fifty or sixty hours a week and they view that as an improvement.

I'm all damned glad and proud that Kenyans and Maori are free to move to the US and have sweat-shop lives that are better than the stone-age lives they had back at home. Really, I've seen some of the living conditions in destitute urban Mexico and the like. It's great that there's economic opportunity here ready for all, for the price of a visa and an ocean passage. Hooray for the Land of Opportunity. But if the USA REALLY genuinely offers "opportunity" for those of us who reach out and take it, then WHERE are those opportunities FOR ME? Trading up to a sweat-shop? How do I reach out and take something more than what I'm getting -- which is less than what a typical worker makes, for more effort.

I don't want a sweat-shop life, of course, nobody actually does; I want a neat cadge that sneaks me into the upper echelons in terms of PROFIT. I want a loop-hole, or a fair break, either one. But I don't want what I have had all my life -- cheap shots. The "system" has rejected me. I guess I don't fit in. (Well, great! So why can't I be the outsider who profits from his novel point of view, rather than the insider who profits from his intimate knowledge of the internal workings?)

I work hard. Regularly. All the damned time. I was going in on weekends. (A mistake? Instead of sending the signal that I was willing to put in the extra hours, I believe instead ((now! too late!)) that I was sending the signals that I couldn't get the work done. Yeesh.) I didn't miss deadlines, except sometimes those things that were declared (not in writing; I guess I learned that lesson too) "non-essential" or "icing on the cake." I had friends in high places. I thought my butt was covered.

And yet it rendered me very little result. All that extra effort, for NOTHING ...

This is a stupid plan. I was making less than $20K (full benefits, though), and now I'll miss even that.

Grr. OK, I'm done. Hit the "ignore" key if you must.

Book Guy

If you're serious about wanting an answer, I'm sure some of us could begin to guess, and in fact I think you've partly hit on it already.

You seem to believe (possibly correctly) that you're smarter than everyone else. You seem to assume that is sufficient to qualify you as better than everyone else, and therefore you should be, at least, the intellectual authority.

Hierarchy oriented people (guardian temperament), which amount to about 41-42% of the general population, and maybe 75-80% of office workers, don't think that way, and if you can't fit into their hierarchy, or if they see you as threatening, they will undermine you at every turn. If you don't understand their game, you're toast.

And you make a vital, vital error.....you seem to think that life is supposed to be fair....life is virtually never fair.

Anyway, before I go assuming too much, it would be helpful if we (I) knew your exact temperament type...I'm going to guess, but let's be accurate here.

Go here:

http://www.advisorteam.org/

There is a test called the temperament sorter in the upper right....take it.

Don't read ahead on the site, just take the test and then read all about yourself. Then read other types descriptions. It will open your eyes to an amazing degree.

There are no "right" or "wrong" answers....there are only the correct answers FOR YOU. Don't over-think it...respond instinctively.

Understand...the blank-slate theory is horseshit.
We are all born with particular thought and action patterns, just as we are all born right or left handed, footed or eyed. But the differences are huge.

If you promise not to look ahead so you know what the letters mean, I'll tell you this much right now. My prediction: iNTp, but possibly iNTj, or more remotely, iNFp.

There are four sets...
I or E
N or S
T or F
P or J

This results in sixteen possible combinations, but they are not even close to equally represented. For example, N is about 17-18% of the population, leaving S with the other 82-83%.
These break down into four groups, with surprisingly similar characteristics: NT's ~7%, NF's ~10%, SP's ~41% and SJ's ~42%.

iNTp puts you in less than 1% of the population, and iNTp's tend not to recognize each other for some reason. (actually, it's because they're not looking.) Add in the unusually high IQ, and I'll bet you've never found another person on the planet that you thought was "like you."

However, people of particular temperaments tend to self-select, by activity, interest, occupation, habit, etc. I am certain that there is FAR greater than 1% iNTp represented on this board.

iNTj's make up about 1% and iNFp's make up less than 2% of the population if I remember correctly. But I'll proceed on my primary assumption of iNTp.

Anyway, to the best of my knowledge I have never met you, and to the best of my recollection, I don't know anyone who has met you or described you to me in any way....I'm going by your own words.

Let me try to describe you. Maybe you should stop reading here and take the test. Then come back and see how close I have come to describing you.
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No, seriously, go take the test and then come back!!!
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Did you take the test???

Okay book-guy....Here goes.

You have an extensive collection of books....and you keep on buying books even if you know damn well you don't have time to read them all right now. You are comforted with the knowledge that the answer is on your bookshelf if you ever need it.

Odds are high that are thin, (or were when you were younger,) likely light boned, likely taller than your relatives. (I'm reaching here)

Most of your clothes are solid colors, but may have very basic pattern. Those colors are likely muted. You don't wear jewelry, and don't like tattoos.

You were an early adopter of the internet, before most people you know, and in fact you tend to be aware of techno-gadgets and their proper uses earlier that most others. You enjoy tools, and may even tend to collect them.

You like maps. You have excellent spatial perception.

Large groups can wear you out, and you think most clearly when you're alone. You tend to select your words very carefully, with great precision. You can find flaws in other peoples logic without even trying.

In meetings, you tend to hold your opinions until toward the end, and you often make your points by asking pertinent questions. You probably end up giving the "sage" observations toward the end of the meeting.

For some reason, you enjoy the occasional company of young children and can easily tolerate, even enjoy, their many questions; in fact you LOVE to answer their questions and explain things to them. But adults annoy the hell out of you when they don't automatically "get it."

You hold yourself to an unrealistic standard of intellectual perfection.

Because you are searching for perfect information, you have a strong tendency to procrastinate large decisions, to the point that some opportunities pass you by. In fact, you don't even throw away all of your junk mail, holding a significant part of it back to review later.

You can juggle several tasks at the same time, but may have difficulty completing them unless there is some deadline you are being held to by circumstance of some other party.

Due to the last two facts, your desk tends to be cluttered. Your car too.

You can tend to forget appointments, anniversaries and social ritual, but you NEVER forget a concept.

You pride yourself for your ability to stay calm when others would loose their cool...you don't much show your emotions, considering others overly emotional and therefore flawed.

You trust your own logic beyond anything else.
You see yourself as visionary.
You pride yourself on your independent thought.
You analyze obsessively.

You will ignore the opinions of superiors if those opinions look flawed to you. In fact you have a problem with authority in general, prefering your own autonomy. "...authority derived from office, credential, or celebrity does not impress" you.* However, you will sit and talk to the janitor or maid, the bum in the bar, whoever, as long as their discussions interest you or seem to be on point, (whatever that may be.) Hierarchy is almost irrelevant to where you get your information.

You have found yourself, at various times in your life, to be the only person in a large group with a particular opinion or observation, but had no difficulty believing (knowing) that you were correct and the other twenty, thirty, fifty people were all wrong. At some later time it became apparent that you were correct, but you didn't even bother to point it out, expecting them to see it for themselves.

How am I doing? I could go on, but you can find it explained more coherently in the book

* "Please Understand Me II: Temperament, Character, Intelligence" by David Keirsy, the foremost expert on temperament theory, and an iNTp himself.

I don't know much about living the dream, but I'm reading a book "The World is Flat" right now. I think anyone looking for employeement in the future should read it. I agree with Ejack1, the personally test is helpfull. I'm an INTJ.

A couple typing errors:

"Odds are high that YOU are thin..."

"...unless there is some deadline you are being held to by circumstance OR BY some other party."
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You may wonder why I'm telling you all of this...It matters. I could be wrong on your temperament type, though I doubt it, but that's not the important part.

The important part is that you are NOT the Guardian temperament of most of your office co-workers, and there-in lies the problem.

Before you can understand how the vast majority of people operate, and therefore why you're not fitting in, you must first understand how YOU operate.

Understand yourself, then understand them, then learn how to either squeeze yourself into their world, or learn how to do some work-around...some end-run...some stunt play. You will NEVER be like them, but if you come to understand them, you will have a much better shot at making it in their world or avoiding them altogether.

I went through something fairly similar about 5 years ago. You can't believe how much of a revelation it was to me when I discovered this stuff.

I had to figure it out on my own. I didn't initially have anyone to explain any of it to me, didn't know there was a whole field of study on the subject. I didn't understand any of it until I accidently came across someone "just like me," after believing all my life I was one of a kind.

That got me thinking and I started specifically searching out the information and eventually found it. I can see things now I didn't know were there to be seen. And I'm in the process of making my end-run as I type this.

I am iNTp. I ran into the same walls. I know what you're talking about.

Take the test, read the basic info, then buy the book and read it. You can find it on Amazon or in nearly any bookstore. You'll get through it quite quickly. I'll point you to specific issues and help you where and when I can.

Thank you for your responses. I'd like to address some things. I'm sorry to hijack this thread -- maybe we should move our discussion to a new thread "all about Book Guy?" Or you and I move on over to emails? Let me know your preferences. I am glad to discuss wonderful ol' me! Really. I'm in need of help here, and I'm happy that you're willing to give it, EJack1. You can email me at Yahoo, "book_guy" at ...

(Message edited by book_guy on July 02, 2006)

Book guy, you can make a living wage teaching English in many countries.

It will help if you have a little savings, but even if you don't, you can get by.

I am 40, I also hate work, but I'm very good at it. My intention is to not work at anything that difficult and boring by age 45.

Work is a necessary evil. If you do what you love, the money won't follow. That line is full of shit. Do what you can tolerate and move on when you can.

Wow.

Please don't take it all to email, as I am learning a lot.

I guess that I fit into this mold as well.

I was EXTREMELY lucky - I had parents who had both experienced a wide range of work during their lives, and instilled in me that I could make it in the world in many different wanys, so....

When I graduated and went to work for a big company, I quickly realized that I didn't fit in. At all. Lucky for me I was sent to a review board the second week I was there for violating some "rules".

I surprised even myself when I walked out and told them I wasn't going to be back.

TWO WEEKS. That was it.

Since then I have managed to get by. I have made the big bucks by struggling to "fit in" to corporate America, and decided the cost to my person wasn't worth it. I now have my own business, and I get by.

Good luck.

I can hardly wait to read more on this....

I also own a business and do quite well. I fit in as much as I need to but since I am the boss, my employees must fit in with me!

My business is securities, insurance, and financial services. So I know how to take an investment and make it last a lifetime. Even if I am not allowed to say it officially, I can easily make 10% with little or no risk. Anyone can. Its if you want to play catchup and make more than that that will expose you to risks.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm just saying if you are already at $500K, you can probably retire now if you don't mind making $50K a year. Remember your taxes! Even if you make $50K, you really only make $42090 (including your personal exemption) or $3500 or so a month. Remember, you don't pay state taxes if you don't reside in the US! This is more than enough in most 3rd world countries.

Even if you were 20, if you have $500K, you can essentially live the dream outside the US. This assumes you can manage your budget and don't mind working a little to help stretch your dollar and keep your mind fit.

I don't care what anyone says on this board, greenbacks, Pounds, or Euros are the only currency you should keep the majority of your wealth in. I only add Euros because of the economic force behind the currency, but I've got to wonder about the house of cards that is being built with all of the diverse economies in Europe. That being said, the Euro has done pretty well for itself.

Currency risk and inflation are the biggest enemies to you living the dream.

I like to have a huge buffer, so I'm targeting $1 Million for my retirement and I am 40. It will take me 2-5 years to get there with no real stretch from me. I don't like to rent, but on the $500K plan, you should. Your real estate investment won't appreciate fast enough and that $100K that you spend on a house in Rio (or wherever) will be a "non working" asset. Meaning you don't make money off of it.

My advice, unless you can spare $100K from your plan, rent. Also rent in an area which is safe but not the best part of the city. Best part of city = $$$$. Clean and safe is what you are looking for, not swanky.

More advice, if you want to start a business in a 3rd world country, make it a small business in the services area. Cheap to start and if it fails, you have not put too much into it. If you are making too much money, a local will notice and will decide that they want to compete with you. You will be doomed, and for what? A few thousand dollars a year. Not worth the headaches in my opinion.

Don't have $500K, thats ok! Just plan to find a real job when you are overseas and live like a local. Most locals don't make what English teachers make. Doctors in Colombia make $20K a year...maybe. English teachers can make $1000 month if they apply themselves and work reasonable hours freelancing in addition to their main gig.

You won't be rich, but you will be happy!

Unfortunately, I need to be rich to be happy. So I'm fucked for the next few years while I earn away.

My initial reaction to taking it off the board is along the lines of Curious' response.

As I stated earlier, I am convinced that the "self-selecting" process has resulted in a community here that has FAR higher representation of Rationals than you would find in the general population.

The general population has about 7% rationals, maybe 2-3% Introvert Rationals. On this board...well,at least of the guys that do the talking....I would estimate over 25% Rational, probably higher, and that most of those are "I".

Also, as I stated earlier, I am in the process of starting my own "end-run." Specifically, I'm trying to do what every expert will say NOT to do... I've started two companies (LLC's) at the same time, which have nothing what-so-ever to do with each other. (Completely different product, concept, business model.)

So....Because I am going to have some very serious time demands, and because there is a very large community here that could both benefit, and benefit from the discussion, I am reluctant to take this completely off the board.

While I am willing to help, I am neither a career councelor nor any other form of guidance councelor.

If there are specific issues that need to remain confidential, we can do that off the board, and I'll send you a mail in a few minutes to make initial contact.

However, most of the guys who could benefit from this discussion will never be as open as you have been, so they need this to remain where they can see it.

Also, most of the guys who can help would never be comfortable taking on this issue in a one-to-one exchange...too must responsability. But if we keep it here, many just might pop in and help.

What we should do, however, is move this over to some other thread, starting with your initial query.

We could call it something like "Career and Temperament."

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Here's a free version of the personality test.

I took this test, and true to form came up iNTp once again. And the links take you to Keirsey's site for explanation, or alternatively, to a description by another guy named Joe Butt at the TypeLogic website. http://typelogic.com/

But be careful out there.

If you go looking for medical advice online, you know you are going to come across all kinds of quacks.

Even more so if you are looking for nutrients or nutritional info, home remedies, etc.

The same holds true whenever you are looking for physcology info, sociology info, or any of the soft sciences.

It is definitely true with temperament sites on the web.....all kinds of people are out there passing themselves off as authorities on the subject. I have even found blatant error in more than one published book on the subject, including a best seller.

As a matter of fact, the statistics given on the "advisor team" website had me going, until I realized that some idiot there is using the results from the site's tests and not explaining that they were not representative of the population at large.
This was a case of "self-selection" in about as pronounced a fashion as it gets...and yet to read the site you would think that the results are exactly representative of the general population.

I had to go to Keirsey's own web site to find the explanation. (and to be certain I hadn't erred in my quoted numbers above.)

Also, because people don't always know themselves as well as they think they do, results can often be invalid....therefore the reading of discriptions and explanations are necessary to determine whether your results are accurate.

Here's a discussion on the issue:

http://www.16types.com/Request.jsp?lView=ViewArticle&Article=OID%3A59622&Page=OID%3A59623

I really enjoyed taking these tests. I am an INTJ. This topic has taken an interesting course. The underlying supposition is that only certain personality types have the vision and risk tolerance to drop everything and live the dream.

Another INTJ(ya, don't meet many); Bluestraveller I hadn't thought of that angle, but yes I think certain personalities would be much better at "living the dream" then others.

I came up ENTJ, and with my percentages breakdown, it appears that my future lies in overthrowing the government of some small country and then ruling it with an iron fist.

Either that, or I'll express it by always demanding bareback blowjobs from GdPs.

That's funny Cat. Just warn me so I get out of the country first.

I would have guessed you as an ESTJ.

Just to amuse myself, I would like to request that a few specific members take the test and report their results.

My predictions:

INTP---
Badseed
GCL
Blazers
Sandman

I could work up a long list of predictions by going back and re-reading a bunch of guys' posts...but don't have the time.

But, if some of you that have written at least fifty discus posts would like me to guess and then reveal your answers to test my accuracy, just ask.

To answer your question, Bluestraveler,

Thinker Guardians could easily mitigate the risk by using their superior logistical skills, but that would require that they leave behind their extensive heirarchy network...something they would be loath to do.

Thinker Artisans have little concern for the risk, but are less likely to do so because,
a) the idea would not occur to them because they are too into the here-and-now...their immediate world
b) it would feel like too much work...they need immediate effort/reward.
c) they don't often achieve the financial where-with-all to pull it off.

Idealists might love to explore other places, but it's quite unlikely that they're mongers in the first place.

Yes...I'm certain that the vast majority of guys that would seriously consider "living the dream" are Rationals.

However, temperament and intelligence are not synonymous. While temperament can and does predict a person's specialized forms of intelligence, there are increadibly intelligent people of ALL temperaments. Furthermore, the unusually intelligent can far more easily adopt the patterns and methods of other temperaments, making them less predictable.

Damn, I'm almost sorry I read this latest turn to the thread. It's too late to take the test tonight, and I'm a little scared what I'll learn, so I'll wait until tomorrow. Is there is a category for smart but not real smart, hard working but with a drifter personality, socially inept with women unless he is paying them upfront, likes maps and even has a dynamite screen saver that combines a beautiful ever changing map with airline travel (you really have to see this, it is that good), is a gadget freak but doesn't understand what makes them work, and just doesn't fit in? Not me of course. It's a friend

I'll check this all out tomorrow. And do look at the screen saver if you fantasize about going somewhere and maybe never coming back. The first link is the actual SS itself. The second link is a picture I just now took off of my computer. Remember, this is not static and all those colored lights are moving.

http://www.staralliance.com/star_alliance/star/content/screensaver.html

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1107/screensaver0zw.jpg

Ejack,

As long as you have the spare time, analyze away. I have prior commitments in termas for the rest of the week but I promise to help out if the sex ever gets boring.

Hey dudes. Looks like a good discussion has been going on while I was out of internet range for the weekend leading up to the Fourth.

My suggestion that I take it off the board and into email was more for the sakes of the analysis of me, my own personality type, and how I could (or could not!) learn to fit in with work culture. That topic seemed all too much like thread usupration for me to feel comfortable blogging away.

On the other hand, further discussion of the main contents of the thread, itself, seems perfectly reasonable here, and I'm glad people are still chatting about it. But I'm going to keep my "personal grief" to a minimum. Except to say, thanks for the responses, sorry I whined. I don't really think that life SHOULD be fair or that I somehow "deserve" any more than I'm getting. I (painfully, sometimes) realize those lessons, as we all do and did. Sorry if my initial post sounded that way. I'm in a stressful time, OK?!

But I DO think (more about me) that there is an unfortunate disjunction going on, in which I am receiving negative experiences, and I do seek to improve on my experiences, including on my personal income. That disjunction is between (a) what any reasonable person, many on this board for example, might guess that my own skills and level of effort, education, and opportunity, would yield for me, especially considering the types of choices and plans I have often tried to make; and (b) what I am actually seeing as real yields. I've got a problem; probably solvable; and I'm looking for the solution.

As far as the initially mentioned website goes, I was already quite familiar with those types of tests before I got to this thread. I consistently score as an ENTJ, if you'd like to know. I can go further into it, but that would be all-about-me yet I'm trying not to hijack the thread. I think the percentages were

E 60 / 40 I
N 70 / 30 S
T 85 / 15 F
J 70 / 30 P

roughly speaking. Each test gets slightly varied results, of course, but the ENTJ response is pretty regular. That's the "field marshall" character -- Napoleon, Eisenhower, King Solomon. Interested in hierarchy, but only if I get to be the tip top of the pyramid. In fact, it was only quite recently that it even OCCURRED to me that people might be comfortable in a structured organization while NOT being the top of its pyramid ...

Ejack, thanks for your comments. I look forward to more. But, true to your suggestion, I'm going to found (or find) a thread entitled "Career and Temperament." I look for you there.

BG


(Message edited by book_guy on July 05, 2006)

Book_guy,

If you're so smart, why aren't you rich?

I caught the part about "hey, I'm looking for a trick to get a high-paying job with little work." Well, guess what -- we all are. Tricks just keep getting harder to find.

Try starting your own business.

Don't try coming up with a clever new idea.

Don't try inventing the next internet thing.

Just pick a well-established industry and jump in. Become a landscaper. Or open a bar. Or buy a McFranchise. Whatever. But if you don't work well with hierarchies, get on top. If you don't like an office, work outdoors.

How about driving a taxi?

Cleaning pools?

Painting houses?

If you're disappointed in your ability to get an intellectual job, then go do something radically different. At the end, you'll have a better view of your own likes, even if you fail. (And hey, failure just means selling whatever equipment you have and starting something different. Don't sweat it.)

DG

DG -- great points. Yeah, if I'm so smart, why AIN'T I rich? That's definitely something I'd like to answer. In fact, it's exactly what I'm working on.

All,

I just met with my financial planner this morning.

Given my current holdings, if I withdrawl a modest $21,000 per year and hold a part-time job for about $500 a month to help with expenses, there is a 95.5% chance that I would be able to retire NEXT YEAR!!!!!

There are plenty of places I can survive on $21,000 a year. Namely Medellin.

My planner ran a Monte Carlo simulation (a complex simulation of my portfolio against the market since 1871), so I believe it is very reliable.

I can add about $50K to my portfolio next year so I'll delay to 2008 for a little more comfort in my retirement plan, but I will tell you:

I'M OUTTA HERE!!! I'll be your Medellin tour guide.

Not sure I understand all this stuff. Usually Ejack's posts are above my intellect. But I took the personality inventory and came up as a ISFJ.

The description is as follows, "The primary desire of the Protector Guardian is to be of service to others...as guarding others against life's pitfalls and seeing to their safety and security. There is a large proportion of Protectors in the population, perhaps as much as ten percent. "

So much for predictions....

Interesting thread, just stumbled across it.
Sniper, are you now in Medellin? I hope to move there this fall

Wow, so in the spring of 2006, I predicted that the stock market would do well through early 2008, then a recession would kick in in the middle of 2008 and stocks would go to shit.

Why didn't you dumbasses listen to me? Why didn't I remember my prediction? I could have saved a bundle.

I followed a gut and got 1/2 into cash, after quite a to-do with my broker. Saved my ass a bunch.

I took the test above (for all the years I was married, I resisted the "wouldn't it be fun to take this quiz together?" bit) and found I am an ISTP. Kind of interesting, think I will go play with my toys!

I speed read this thread too - I won't post Sniper's 10/09 update - but you can click his user name - and read the post.

I think a lot of us can relate to making good money then watching it disappear. Ever since I lost my ass in FOREX - I have stuck with investments that I know about.