Book Guy (myself) and Ejack1, among others, have been discussing Book Guy's (my!) continual failed career choices and results. Book Guy (that's me, like I said) just got fired. You can see the initial phases of this discussion in the thread, "Living the Dream, Part 2."

I'm looking forward to E helping me solve all my problems. Where do we start?

Im sorry to hear you got fired.

First, lets start off with a little background about you. Age, degree, field of business, etc. Any kids? Ever married?

Next, lets address the exact reasons why you got fired. Be honest with yourself. Have you been fired before in the past? Did they give you reasons? Did you see it coming? Its important to address these reasons as its very expensive being unemployed. Everyday of unemployment is a true loss of cash.

Most of the time, the main reason why a person gets fired is their attitude towards work, the person that manages them and/or their co-workers. The golden rules of the working environment are the following:

1. Always smile and appear confident no matter what the circumstances. If a fight breaks out in the middle of the office, keep smiling. If an irrate customer comes in and yells profanity at you, keep smiling. If your boss throws water in your face, wipe it off and keep smiling.

2. Everyone in the workplace is your friend. Well, not your true friends, but friends as long as you are there in the office. Outside of work, they are not your true friends. Therefore, never appear negative or unfriendly towards them. Never say anything bad about another person who is employed with the company even if they truly are bad people. If you hate your boss, do not tell anyone at work your feelings. NEVER EVER tell anyone your true feelings at work.

3. Never, *EVER*, send an email unless you really have to. When you have to send an email , always make it as short and concise as possible. Try to make it nothing over a sentence long or stick to short answers "yes" "no". Always use the words please and thank you in the email. The reason being is that emails usually come out the wrong way and are permanently saved/filed away. That email sent back in 2002 is still archived away on someone's computer. If someone wants to discuss something by email, do not respond to them. Pick up the telephone or go meet with them in person. Know that if you send an email, it will probably be taken the wrong way and permanently filed away in private folders for all to see later on. You have the right to remain silent, exercise that right when using email.

4. Get to know the people who manage you. Ask them out to lunch. Call in before you get there and ask them if they want some coffee. Occasionally sit down in front of them and just tell them about your weekend. Write down their kids names. Write down their wife's name. Make sure you know all the small details so you can ask about it later.

5. Always make your desk appear organized and tight. As well, always have a tight appearance.

6. If you can see your coworkers or manager, then they can see you too. When you see them, always appear busy and working.

7. Always act in a professional manner no matter what happens.

Its a given that most work environments are unenjoyable places that contain a cast of characters that you may despise. However, this is one of those challenges of life. Many jobs are unenjoyable and you just have to make it work somehow.

Next, lets move on to investment. You have to *ALWAYS PAY YOURSELF FIRST*. If they have a 401k plan, contribute the max to it. Open up a mutual fund account with Vanguard or Fidelity and invest in a balanced fund if your not sure where to put your cash. Whatever you do, you must place your money somewhere where it will accrue. A person over 30, should have at least 100k in liquid assets. A person over 40, should have at least 500k in liquid assets. Do not depend solely on your job.

Next, a word about fitness. Use your time while unemployed to work out and lose that extra weight. No matter what happens in life, good or bad, always keep fit.

Finally, living the dream may seem like a good option. Living out in Asia or in Rio fucking some young women each day seems like a good lifestyle. However, it will get old after a while and you will lose focus in your life. Look around at some of the guys that actually did it and ask yourself if you want to be like them. What is their attitude towards life in general?

Ok, I read a little bit about your situation from "Living the Dream, Part 2". There are a few factors at work in your situation.

I've been to Florida quite a few times and its not a good place for someone to have a career. A good place for someone to start is New York City or San Francisco, for example. The other day I went to a restaurant in New York City and spoke with the CEO of a certain company and the cfo of another company. I also met up with some hedge fund managers and traders. I didnt plan to meet these people, I simply went to a restaurant that was outside of some major corporations in NYC. They were there sitting around the bar having drinks. These guys were not telling me stories, they had business cards and I looked them up on the web afterwards.

In Florida, where can you network and meet people that will put you someplace? I've been to Florida a few times and it didnt impress me as a place full of industry or influential people. The people I met the other day could snap their fingers and give me a job or give me millions of dollars to start up my own business.

Ask yourself, why are the people in third world countries poor? They are simply in the wrong place. If they were in NYC, they wouldnt be in this situation. Location location location is the key to sucess.

Your attitude seems a bit negative and poor from what I have read. You have to look within yourself and ask the question if people enjoy working with you. You have to question yourself and be introspective.

At the age of 41, you will have to lie about your job history. Im sorry, pure and simple. Lieing is not a problem on a resume. All you have to do is get yourself a bunch of prepaid cell phones from the local cell store. Have a buddy create a voicemail stating that they are the manager of the company that you worked at previously. When they call for references, they will get a voicemail and then your buddy will call them back. If they want W-2s, no problem, easy to forge on a computer. I can forge just about anything with a scanner and color deskjet.

Lastly, its time to file a lawsuit against your previous employer for discrimation. The Supreme Court has stated that the age of 41 is a magic age where a person can file for age based discrimination. Even if the employer wasnt discriminating purposely or had no bad intentions, you can still sue and win. If they replaced you with a younger worker, then maybe you can get some cash out of this situation. Thank the Supreme Court!!!

Hmmm
eNTj I only got the "Rational" part right...bummer. Oh well, it's the most critical part in determining your behaviour and thought patterns.

Seeing as Cat has the same temperament, maybe we will get him involved in this discussion as well. We'll see.

I hope you're purchased the Keirsey book, and maybe one or two more on temperament and career, such as: Do What You Are...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316880655/sr=8-1/qid=1152160848/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1079685-8755928?ie=UTF8
or Work Types...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0446672173/ref=cm_lm_fullview_prod_10/104-1079685-8755928?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155
or Type Talk at Work...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0440509289/ref=pd_bxgy_img_b/104-1079685-8755928?ie=UTF8

I'm not endorsing any of these three, as I haven't read any of them, but they are definately on subject.

Another that I have read much of is "The Art of Speed Reading People..."
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316845183/sr=8-1/qid=1152161470/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1079685-8755928?ie=UTF8
I'm getting fairly good at the recognition part here, it's the "Speak Their Language" part I still have trouble with...part of me refuses, lol.


Anyway let's start here...
`"In fact, it was only quite recently that it even OCCURRED to me that people might be comfortable in a structured organization while NOT being the top of its pyramid"

Guardians are our worker bees.
Guardians are all about working "in the system" and working their way up to whatever level they can possibly reach. They are about rules and loyalty and tend to believe that the person that has been around the longest should be in charge. They strive for status and will fight anyone that might diminish or threaten the status they believe they deserve. But they see themselves as earning that status by continuous effort over the long haul.

The Rational finds it very confusing that Guardians see the effort rather than the result as being worthy of reward.

The Artisan will work in spurts of rapid activity offset with periods of play...they can generally get the most done in the shortest time.

But because of the constant grind work ethic, and the attention to detail, and the focus on structure, the Guardian will typically get the most done over the long haul. Even if watching their plodding work is annoying to the other temperaments, it is apparent that given time, Guardians generally end up the moneyed people of the world. Guardians are about action...and as Keirsey points out, they are not beyond making very good time going in the wrong direction.

Anyway, as a Rational, you look for efficiency.
For you, it's not about putting out the most effort like the Guardian, and it's not about speed or some kind of beautiful fluid motion like the Artisan...It's about getting the best result with the least effort.

Guardians, are constantly comparing themselve to everyone else.
The Guardians get irritated with the Artisans' play breaks...but that's nothing compared to how they react to watching the Rational work. If you aren't putting out their same effort, they resent it....and then when you miraculously accomplish the goal, they are certain you are somehow cheating...breaking the rules...They can't exactly define what's pissing them off, they just know that they're working harder and you're still keeping up, and they resent it.

Then they begin to undermine you. They work their network to find allies which help them undermine you.

And all the while, you the Rational, not quite the heirarchial team player, are oblivious to the entire process. You are watching the results and think you're fine. So when they spring their attack, you never saw it coming.

That's how you got where you are now.

But what are you going to do about it???
That's harder, and frankly, you can only determine that for yourself.

The short and simple answer is that you either need to be on the top, or off to the side in some fairly autonomous role. In that autonomous role, you would be wise to have a Guardian secretary to keep you organized and on task, but YOU set out your own methods and agenda.

In so doing, you avoid the entire heirarchy game which you don't understand how to play.

How do you do that??

If you're sticking with the large corporate environment, you need to be the expert at something...anything...so that you specialize and keep your activities separated off from the larger group. That way you're kind of outside the heirarchy.

Alternatively, and probably the easiest method, is to keep your job search focused on small companies, where heirarchy problems are less likely to develope. The smaller the better.

But the prefered route would be to somehow get something going of your own.

I don't know your financial situation, or whether you could get someone to back you, but look into franchising as the quickest way to get yourself into business. A good franchisor will give franchisees the training and support to succeed, and there are franchises out there for just about any type of specialty or interest.

Then just be certain to hire people of varied temperament to be certain you have people to fill each skill need. Artisans, to get the job done quickly and, if need be, creatively. Guardians, to keep the machine rolling consistently and smoothly. You, the Rational, set the agenda, the principles, the methodology, and watch the Guardians and Artisans move in and get the job done.

That's all pretty general....so if you want me to get more specific, I'm going to need more personal details.

Hmmm ... this is an interesting example of my point.

What IronEagle says is exactly true, and a very good list of rules to follow, though I wouldn't advise the deception on the resume....creative writing is much safer.

But compare and contrast his response to mine.
While he is technically correct, his focus is entirely different.

Which one sounds like YOU?

The SJ focuses on the rules...the NT focuses on the concepts. As you begin to grasp these differences, you will begin to understand why office politics are not your forte and possibly why you have failed in the work environment up to this point.

I know there are some obvious problems behind deception and fraud. It sounds immoral, illegal and evil. If bookguy was 21 (or even 31), then I would say to attempt to work with the history you have.

However, bookguy is 41 years old and he appears to have a rocky employment history. We cant go back and change that history. So my belief that outright lieing is an option.

However, if an outright lie is chosen as an option Bookguy will have to do a LOT of homework to backup the lie. Its the very small details where a person usually gets caught. Lets say he stated he worked at Company X, then he should know all the restaurants around the building, how many floors are in the building, etc. Very small details. . .

Guardians, clearly, are weak. They must be ruled by me. I get the concept ...

More soon.

Weak or strong is not the issue....actually they're usually the toughest, and usually you will find one of them at the top. And there's far more of them.

I'm listening! My response, finally:

This post will be a whopping-long statement from myself. And I'm not expecting people to read it all unless they're anticipating examining helping ME with my career and income troubles. (And girl troubles, too, if that's plausible.) It doesn't have much that will help others. We can get to that, I'm sure, and I hope we will so that I'm not the only topic of discussion.

I also hope everyone realizes I'm not doing this as an exercise in Narcissism, though it inevitably concerns me. My intention is that within the next five years, on the basis of choices made this summer and then ongoing into the future, I'll increase my income and, generally, I'd hope to increase happiness as a byproduct, though some trade-offs may be inevitable. Maybe I'll return to school or to a technical college, maybe I'll attain new self-awareness, or learn to fit in to an office culture, or merely learn better to cheat.

I'm not in Florida any more (as one of you seems to misunderstand). The recent firing took place in Jackson, Mississippi, which is where I relocated in order to take the job which I just lost. Many of the factors directly causing my firing may indeed already have been discussed, \the "work culture" issue and my personality type. But before we get into that, let me add another wild card to the mix.

Some of my failure at this workplace might be a "Katrina-related casualty": although I didn't actually see it at the time, now I can look back and understand that my home town, New Orleans, and its flooding tragedy, and my focusing on NOLa instead of on Miss., bred resentment among my pro-Mississippi co-workers and superiors. There's a real ethos of "why does everyone pick on us" and "we're just as great as anyone else, why do they think we're inferior" in Miss., and I now see that I failed to keep quiet about my own dismay at how Miss. received more repair dollars than they would deserve, relative to New Orleans. But that's likely only as much as 30% of the problem. There are many complicating factors, too; the Director wears a sari, my immediate superior was a seriously self-immolating Catholicism-convert with a need to damage others, the list goes on. Why examine specifics? Every workplace has its wonky personalities.

Including my own. Which is an ENTJ, I think.

The particular excuse for the firing was, "You're not happy here, and it's not working out." Platitudes! I had understood that my work was going well, but then I found out through the grapevine that I had been, for as long as six months or even more, the scapegoat to some of our clients. I believe now that my immediate superior had done some things to undermine the perception of my productivity, by, for example, intercepting my messages before I heard of them, then complaining later that I had failed to respond to them. I know as well that in that shop are several "non-performers" who looked much worse than me -- showing up habitually late, failing to meet deadlines, etc. -- who nevertheless are still working there. So, to some degree, I actually believe that the "not happy" excuse actually did cause their desire to dismiss me (and of course it's true -- who IS happy with a job?) since other less productive but happier workers remain. That I was a scapegoat (bad work being done over my name without my knowledge, messages being intercepted so that I could later be blamed) suggests I should have seen it earlier and gotten out on my own. But that doesn't change the fact that I fail to "fit in" to a work culture and to understand what social responsibilities I have.

Iron Eagle suggests the following rules:

1. Always smile and appear confident
2. Everyone in the workplace is your friend.
3. Never, *EVER*, send an email unless you really have to.
4. Get to know the people who manage you.
5. Always make your desk appear organized and tight.
6. If you can see your coworkers or manager, then they can see you too. When you see them, always appear busy and working.
7. Always act in a professional manner no matter what happens.

I had already understood those and other points to "office culture": dress for the job you want, not the one you have; treat your superiors with respect and defer to their opinions when in the presence of anyone from outside the organization; claim pride and happiness in the organization's product regardless of its true qualities; etc. You can probably go on for a while, Iron Eagle, and you might find something that I didn't do, but it would be a mere 5% of the culprit. My dismissal was partly about interpersonal freakouts and politics; partly about petty insecurities; partly about organizational ineptitude and lack of long-term planning. Probably quite similar to a large number of other poorly justified dismissals in the work world, and therefore hardly worthy of note. Except for the fact that I personally get a lot of them, and so I must look to that which is consistent among all those experiences -- my own behavior.

I had initially concocted a long response to Ejack1's first attempt at describing me, though the parts where I objected may be more due to the fact that he incorrectly guessed INTP instead of ENTJ. I'm willing to go with either hypothesis, by the way, but I would have to guess that because ENTJ is consistently returned by many internet tests, I'm probably closer to that. Some of the "Artisan" description above fits me more than the "Rational," by the way. But I'm not going to post the long response to his first description, since I'm now posting this long response to his SECOND discussion.

So here's my story. And note, the items below are not meant to be construed as a resume; it is more a tell-all biography, not meant to make me look good:

-- born early in 1966. You can work out my graduation years and age from that. I'm a year younger than my class, generally.

-- my first memories are, roughly, of New York City, where I think I was happy as a little kid among the museums and constant mental stimulation, but where my parents were miserable because of the work and the traffic and the pressure and the logistics; dad got a transfer to New Orleans, closer to both sets of grandparents; we are "Southerners"

-- dreadful early experiences at a snobby church-related grade school; I was the "outsider" kid who got the academic scholarship even though his mom and dad couldn't afford to join the golf club where all the other parents congregated

-- successful in High School; found schoolwork "easy", got straight As, also MVP in soccer (though I was too small and too late a bloomer to be allowed to participate in most other sports; this was the great era of "soccer is for weenies")

-- bachelor's at an "elite" or "selective" four-year small liberal arts college (and no, I would NEVER send my children to a similar institution) where I found the social elitism beyond my grasp, and where I was again academically successful but interpersonally miserably unhappy; made no connections, have no friends from there; degree is in English Literature

-- master's at another "selective" university, again in English Literature; again did well "naturally" but got burnt out on school

-- I was most happy in college and grad school when playing soccer or singing in a choir or working on a theater production. No office, phone, paperwork, or fax machine has ever held my attention to that degree. Standing rather than sitting seems to be important to me? (Though, I sit here during my free time avoiding the nice day outside and instead deliberately typing what does amount to a memorandum on a computer, so I have to wonder about that analysis.)

-- then I worked in an arts administration organization, and later as a staff writer for consultants, for a while in urban Chicago. I hated the experiences, but was basically a "beginner" not expected to accomplish anything. I did well, in that my work was judged positively, but I left each of these jobs early in the process because the setting was clearly "not for me." I look back now and realize, the things that felt like they were not for me weren't the arts administration or the consulting or the staff writing; but rather the going in early, the working all day, the wearing uncomfortable clothes, the fluorescent lights, the cheap microwave, the fat ugly stupid secretaries and their goddamned fingernails, the daily commute, the early alarm clock, the late arrival home, the lack of time to eat or sleep enough, the pale wan look under my eyes after a hard day of staring at a word-processor, the lack of connection to any long-term goals (wanting to be a Senator but reasonably anticipating no more than becoming an underpaid newsletter editor as a long-term prospect really surprised me), the obvious status as a (rather unimportant) cog in the machine, rather than as the General of an Army. I had no idea that a Master's in English wasn't the ticket to success, and it was a come-uppance I have yet to reinvigorate.

-- then I got out of work by going back to grad school; I spent almost a decade attempting to receive a Ph.D. from an institution known for its specialization in medieval literature; despite having written two full doctoral theses (which is one more than most candidates) I never successfully convinced the supervisor or other power structures that I should be allowed to defend either document as the final step in the process; therefore, I am not "a Doctor" though I do know a lot about Chaucer; during this time I taught as a graduate instructor and worked a lot of odd jobs for cash, including as a bar-back at all-male strip revues (I guess the soccer buttocks came in handy for something! urk Ö), as a bail bondsman's office help, as a stringer in various elections and big games, and in other jobs that were temporally limited

-- I can still find myself excited by academic treasure hunts (John of Gaunt's library of missing Chaucer manuscripts, for example, will be found some day in some Bibliotheque in Flanders or Catalonia and I would love to be the researcher who first unearths them) but I hated writing papers and trying to convince the old fuddy duddies that I was "like them"; I was very good at teaching (which, in itself, is generally the kiss of death among academics: demonstrating an interest in pedagogy means you're "not devoted to your research")

-- my longer-term hopes for my life had always included "success" (however defined) in a given field to a great enough extent that I could be a "pillar of the community" and run for small local office in whatever city I lived in, and then build up to major national office (I know that I now must reconsider that hope); that I would some day get back to New Orleans (this was a desire I held before Katrina, and I am unsure of how I have realigned it since the storm); that I would marry a woman who was physically attractive to me and raise a family with her (but not before having sex with a lot of other physically attractive girlfriends)

-- by the way, on the woman front, I did date several people, but they were all "not hot enough" and, should I say it?, I felt myself to be a "better catch" than they were and I think they felt that I was, too; each relationship ended at 18 months, usually by my own instigation; I am "good friends" with nearly all my exes (it adds up to about six or seven) except one (and she's a psycho lunatic); I go long periods without (either a relationship, or sex), and do not perceive myself as having enough of the social skills necessary to "meet, seduce, and lay" hot chicks (not even, "hot enough" chicks); and this is a major focus of disappointment in my life; my judgment of women as potential romantic/sexual partners is almost entirely based on physical attributes (I would probably reject someone who had a totally disastrous personality, though I would first want to lay her) and I feel that IF ONLY I could manage to hook up with a female who seemed physically "hot enough" for me (or if I had a variety of "hot enough" choices such that I could select a female with a desirable personality from among those who did not physically disappoint me), I would probably be quite happy to settle down (of course, that is all theorizing; I've never managed to hook up with ANYONE "hot enough" yet, nor are my prospects improving, at 40 years old)

-- after the graduate school debacle, I retreated (in the late 1990s) to my family's old pioneer home now swallowed up by the suburban Tampa Bay area, and basically did nothing for four years, wondering why my society hated me; I maintained the house and a storefront we have there, mowing the grass and putting up "parking for customers only" signs; I sent out a few desultory job applications, and did teach once as a sessional instructor at a community college nearby, though not in a position that had longer-term potential; I eventually (and only regretfully) took an opportunity (which fell in my lap, thanks to family friends) in Jackson to be an unpaid intern in a publishing organization; after four months I was hired full-time, and after another nine months I was given a major raise and a major title increase to become a member of near-senior-staff (third tier) in this organization of eighteen to twenty individuals; then in another twelve I was fired and, indeed, it was quite a surprise, though I have to admit I'm delighted not to have to go in to an office tomorrow morning!

-- I am 40.5 years old (as of now, July 2006); never really "believed" that in my life I'd be able to afford to own a home (though this is self-contradictory, for I always intended to work toward being a US Senator; I admit it, I have issues!); have no close friends (except on a correspondence- and phone-only basis with ex-girlfriends and a few college and grad school acquaintances) or family except mom and dad (all three of us are only children); and I wonder whether my parents (or just, their generational assumptions) are, perhaps, my worst enemies, (although of course they would claim to have nothing but my best interests in mind) because of their strange intercessions at odd key moments when they sabotaged my progress; I hate the clutter of material possessions, and am looking forward to using this unemployment time to seriously dump about 3/4ths of my stuff (I always "hope" to do this, but this time I'm actually going to do it!)

-- I have done the gamut of career testing, personality testing, guidance counselors, self-help manuals about work, and so forth. In my experience thus far, it all comes down to something or other I can't really reconcile in my mind, and I'm asking this thread for help. Usually it's, "What do you want to do with your life?" to which I will happily answer, "Not work, that's for sure!" Or any number of other soft-headed pablum type introspection questions that don't help.

-- another issue to keep in mind, is that I often feel that my "calling" would have been music, if I had had the opportunity. My parents both play instruments quite well and I always wanted to do the same (it's hard not to, growing up in New Orleans!), but somehow (I can't really take responsibility for the negligence of the parents of an eight-year-old, considering I was eight at the time) I was never given childhood music instruction until it was way too late for me to "keep up" with those who had started much earlier than me (I first touched a piano when I moved away to college, at 17). Sometimes, though, I wonder whether I'm not just convincing myself that my calling "would" have been music merely because I know that now it is unattainable, and therefore it's a handy way to avoid the question. So, I am an adult beginner at a number of instruments and at singing, about all of which I can talk a great deal but can perform only rudimentarily almost nothing. I will never have the finger dexterity necessary to gain money at that type of endeavor. I would have wanted, not just to be a no-name session musician, but to be a solo performer at Carnegie Hall.

-- In fact, in all my interests, I want to do them to "Carnegie Hall" level rather than merely to "good enough to get by" degree. I didn't just want to be a professor; but rather, the President of the college, and then a State Senator. I don't just want to be a violinist, but rather, the first chair concert-master violinist of the New York Philharmonic. I find it hard to be willing to do a "good enough" job, and this attitude is probably intrinsic to my failure to find a "hot enough" female partner as well. For me, it has NEVER been about sufficiency, only ever about supremacy and excellence. Unfortunately, this has merely led to greater disappointment at the unfulfilled promise that I perceive in all tasks I've ever been allowed to undertake. It probably also suggests to my co-workers and superiors that I think I'm too good for them, and it doesn't even occur to them that the same evidence in my mind suggests they're slackers who are proactively holding me back from my true potential. I can see where that would spell trouble!

-- I have no criminal record, no family, no wife, no drug addictions, no bad credit history. (In fact, the fools at American Express sent me a Blue card the day I was fired, and a week later the fools at Visa upped my credit limit to $20K on my Platinum card. Just who runs these companies anyway?) I have a happy relationship with my parents, who have both retired but who continue to "help out" my little financial emergencies, to which they have become all too accustomed. I'm bright, well educated, presentable, clean, white, middle class, American. I'm not obese, I speak English as my native tongue, I can fix Windows settings to start a TCP/IP setting, I know how to backup my files, I get my teeth cleaned regularly, and I only need reading glasses if the light-bulb is too dim late at night. According to all of this, I should be not so bad off. There must, therefore, be something "in my head" that is screwing with me.

My first response to the personality type analyses is, yeah yeah, I knew all that. I know I'm an ENTJ, unreasonably (and uselessly) over-intelligent and rational. Capable of remarkable Rubik's Cubing. So what? First, it doesn't really do me any good to know that I'm different from other humans, if I can't actually change my personality type sufficiently that I manage in the future to ingratiate myself to humans in a way that I have thus far failed to do. And as I understand it, you CAN'T change your personality type, you can only live with it and suffer its consequences. So I'm not quite getting how it's going to help.

Second, only if there IS a variety among which to choose, would knowledge of my temperament aid me in choosing optimally from among that variety of potential career options. However, I've never experienced a sense of variety in options for my future at all. This may be a major misperception, or a self-sabotaging set of beliefs that I need to overcome, or any of a number of other psychoses; or it may be a clear understanding of reality. In any case, the task at hand becomes one of, first and foremost, increasing the number of real options that I might pursue and finding out what those options are.

I don't discredit personality type analyses. I merely don't know what the fuck to do with them. I am an ENTJ. I want to run the army. (Though the US army won't have me because of my size and asthma.) I hate being a soldier. This means all the (metaphorical) sergeants kick me out of the army! I'm discharged well before I get promoted to Corporal, much less General. I've never really seen any options other than that type of systemic order that boots me out well before my chance to shine.

In fact, the perception of scarcity rather than plenty of options, seems to me to operate not only in my career paths, but also in my choice of female partners (of the non-pay-for-play variety!). I would have loved to have looked around myself, found five women about whom I could say, "you're all hot enough for me," and then chosen on the basis of personality: Amy's a lunatic psycho, Annie's a prissy rich bitch, and Allison isn't interested in me, but Abby and Annabelle seem cool, so why not date them for a while to get to know them and then choose the one I get along with, am attracted to, or somehow have a "click" with? Instead, my experience has been much less along the lines of choosing among viable options, but instead along the lines of making the most of an already disappointing situation: Natalie won't date me; Natasha won't date me; Natalia won't date me; Nixie won't date me; Nan won't date me; but Nadia will give me a pity fuck, so I guess I'd better somehow let her be my girlfriend. Never mind that I'm bored with her, don't find her "hot enough," and know that it will never work out.

That description of my dating opportunities parallels what I have perceived to be my work opportunities. Because of circumstances beyond my control, I feel forced into something not to my liking that I must try to make the most of it, yet aware even at the outset that it is such a stretch for me that it was unlikely to work out.

The finances continue to get tight because of this. It's particularly disappointing considering that I've always been a "responsible investor" relative to my acquaintances and peers, but have never had any money to invest! Iron Eagle says, "A person over 30, should have at least 100k in liquid assets. A person over 40, should have at least 500k in liquid assets. Do not depend solely on your job." I think I would have been bright enough to stow away a little bit, year after year, if I weren't living hand-to-mouth for so long. I have $12K in a 401K, and another $10K in a bank account that I would have put into something for growth, but I've decided to try to remain more liquid until I get work again. And yet again, as I look at my life, I construe it in terms of KNOWING the right choice, but being DENIED the opportunity to pick it. Sure, I WOULD HAVE picked a hot girl (if she'd wanted me), a good career (if I could have gotten hired), a great investment (if I had had the money), but my experience has been one of scarcity rather than plenty, in terms of those opportunities. I didn't invest, not because I had the money but spent it on a fast car and a bunch of trips to Aspen; but rather, because I never had the money.

"At the age of 41, you will have to lie about your job history. Im sorry, pure and simple." Yeah, probably. The lines between "lying" and "creative writing" and "presenting yourself in the best light possible" will have to be tested. The trick with the cell phone messages might be in my future. Hmm.

"Lastly, its time to file a lawsuit against your previous employer for discrimination." Several friends have suggested as much. Not that I think I'll win, but I do think it might be a good idea to "start a file" with our family's lawyer, and with the Labor Department, so that in the future any other employer who finds out that I have this black mark will also find out that it was disputed by me. But then, I have SO MANY gaps in my resume, why would this one be any more significant. I should have filed a lawsuit against my doctoral supervisor back in grad school, or just against the university itself, complaining that I completed all degree requirements but didn't get the degree. (And how about the total misrepresentation, still going on in most humanities departments, that they'll prepare you for a career in academia when, in fact, there are so few jobs in academia per qualified applicant that 99% of all people invited to pay tuition in order to prepare for a career there ought to instead be told at the outset that they can't have one? Can you sue over that?) But people who go through life suing others for the bad experiences that happen to them, well, they may or may not receive recompense, but they won't exit their pattern of accumulating too many bad experiences. For me the more important issue is to learn to be someone who avoids some of those bad experiences and starts collecting unto himself some GOOD experiences instead. Sure, "they" may have wronged me; or not; but that's beside the point. The point is, how to get someone to do RIGHT for me in the future.

Ejack1: " Guardians are our worker bees. Guardians are all about working "in the system" and working their way up to whatever level they can possibly reach. They are about rules and loyalty and tend to believe that the person that has been around the longest should be in charge. They strive for status and will fight anyone that might diminish or threaten the status they believe they deserve. But they see themselves as earning that status by continuous effort over the long haul. The Rational finds it very confusing that Guardians see the effort rather than the result as being worthy of reward. The Artisan will work in spurts of rapid activity offset with periods of play...they can generally get the most done in the shortest time."

By this description, I see a lot of Guardians in my former workplace, and myself as the Artisan (though the tests say I'm the Rational). I'm stunned, by the way, to find that any human would be so stupid, especially in the current highly competitive work climate, to believe that results matter less than sweat expended, but you're just describing their "natural tendencies" so I guess I have to be sympathetic. This was a small workplace, your very suggestion; and I was "off to the side" in a field of expertise, again your suggestion. Corporate America makes so much noise about results and effectiveness, that it seems preposterous to me that anyone gathering a salary can think themselves noble for having toiled, merely, and not toiled to a point. Well, I will endeavor to remind myself that they know at least one thing more about work than I do, which is that fitting in works for them. It never occurred to me that I made them resentful, especially since there was so much positive response about the productive results I was engendering. In addition, I had (before this internet exchange) come to something of a contrary belief: that my going in for extra long hours, and working weekends, had been my downfall. Though I had initially hoped it would send the signal that I was putting in the extra work, after getting fired I re-interpreted, to believe it had actually sent the signal that I was not capable of getting the work done in the allotted time. Now you're saying otherwise again? that it sent the signal that I was TOO effective at speed? How does one balance all these jillions of conflicting micro-signals? I can't manage to walk and chew gum at the same time!

I definitely do agree with the "efficiency" of a Rational, and not so much with the "beautiful fluid motion" of the Artisan. My home and car are efficient, so my wardrobe, facial hair (no shaving!), kitchen. Work sucks, learn to avoid work.

More: "Guardians, are constantly comparing themselves to everyone else.
The Guardians get irritated with the Artisans' play breaks...but that's nothing compared to how they react to watching the Rational work. If you aren't putting out their same effort, they resent it....and then when you miraculously accomplish the goal, they are certain you are somehow cheating...breaking the rules...They can't exactly define what's pissing them off, they just know that they're working harder and you're still keeping up, and they resent it. Then they begin to undermine you. They work their network to find allies which help them undermine you. And all the while, you the Rational, not quite the hierarchical team player, are oblivious to the entire process. You are watching the results and think you're fine. So when they spring their attack, you never saw it coming. That's how you got where you are now. "

Indeed. This is exactly my experience. You got it on the button. So, what to do in the future?

Well I've read your stuff and am surprised your parents are wealthy. I've never meet anyone
with your background who hasn't come from wealthy families. From what I've read here is
what I would do. Take from it what you like.

I'd become a teacher at a 2 year or 4 year school that doesn't have a graduate program. A
master degree will get you into either as an entry level instructor I think. I would look for
a school that has an open campus, so you can set your own hours; a school that has a
good selection of degrees for "hot women", clothes design, nursing, acting, modeling, etc.;
a city with a low cost of living, allows a higher standard of living. If this city has a larger university that would be good also, socialize(happy hour) with students from the other univerisity. I would try to hook up with some performing arts(theather) at the other school. I would also learn to the play the organ with the goal of getting a job playing the organ in a church.

Bluelight:

(First, I think you meant, "I'm surprised your parents are NOT wealthy."? It seems the "not" is missing. That would make more sense relative to the rest of your post.)

No, we aren't rich. Mom and dad are typical middle class, though we're all three of us only children so that simplifies the inheritance picture. A bit too intellectual and bleeding-heart-liberal for their good, mom and dad, but they "came of age" in the 1960s so I forgive them.

The teacher route is my current "out" plan. That's where all the application energy is currently going. The "self awareness" energy such as I'm expending in this thread is a different (though, obviously, related) question.

Thanks for your response,

BG

Book Guy,

My two cents:

You education experience isn't in anything applicably useful. Teaching is your best bet, be it high school, community college or university. There aren't many high-paying jobs for guys to talk about Medieval Lit, are there?

You seem pretty bitter about things, which a lot of liberal arts majors are. I'm sure you've heard the old joke "what did the English major say to the business major - Do you want fries with that?" It's kinda true. I left undergrad with a pretty big group of friends and every one of us who got BBAs (Bach. of Bus. Adm.) make at least six figures now. Every fucking one of us, from the smartest accounting major to the dumbest football players who majored in marketing or management. Shit, I finished 33rd out of 36 Economics majors (the last two got busted cheating on the final exam of their final class, I've always wondered if they eventually got their degrees or not). I can't think of one non-BBA grad making over six figures.

I worked one shitty year as an actual Economist and then moved right over to high tech, so I could make a lot more money. This was just before the Internet became widely known (mid-1993) and I rode the rollercoaster all the way up. Now, I work very little, spend my work time traveling around the country/world, I got to live in 3 countries and have visited 25 plus almost every state and territory, and I make an obscene amount of money. I even picked up a couple exra post-grad scraps of paper along the way, compliments of the companies I've worked for. They hang on the wall of my office, and have about as much value as a double roll of Charmin Ultra.

So, what's the trick? You need to position yourself. No one is going to hand anything to you, particularly with your background. I grew up fairly wealthy but a good lesson was taught when I turned 14 or so - if you want anything beyond $10 or whatever a week in allowance, you better work for it. I started working the minute I turned 16 - in a hospital and a bowling alley - and worked all through college. I quit a job working for a professor in the Athletics department to work in the dining hall taking out trash and installing giant bags of milk and juices into despensers. Why? Because it paid a buck-fifty an hour more than the other job.

I've never been afraid to switch companies but I keep the exact same job. I've done the exact same thing for 12 years but with six different companies. Oh yeah, I have even worked exclusively from home since 1999.

My point? You have to make the move, you have to recognize your environment and change your position and course, because one big thing I've learned is that the environment doesn't change. Your best bet is to head to a large urban area and get a job in a suburban school district or something that utilizes the 16 years or whatever of college education you have. It seems you've spent a lot of time in three fairly poor areas - New Orleans, bumfuck Mississippi and Tampa. Tampa has lot of rich guys but they usually got rich somewhere else and then moved there. New Orleans has, what, one Fortune 500 company? Not going to get rich there, unless you want to scam the government on rebuilding efforts. Jackson MS? Maybe when MCI was kicking around down there but if you ask me, relocating to Jackson to take a job was a bad move. You get a job and relocate to an area when you have an out and somewhere to go back to if the job falls through. Don't move to a shithole because when you want/need a new job, there won't be anything there to get.

I have read your response and have some more insight on your situation.

My belief is that your main problem lies in your focus. I too have made this mistake many times. Everytime I have moved or found a new job, I had to reset to zero. You need to focus in on one place.

Secondly, I still believe you are not in the proper geography for quality jobs. The midwest and Florida are just not good places. The northeast seems to be the best place. There are several cities within a few hundred mile radius. If you lose a job in one place, you can quickly go to another city. Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington DC are within a few hundred mile circle.

Thirdly, you need to look back and address the reasons why you were terminated. Only you know the reasons as to why. The next time around you must act in manner in which they will like you. The job world is very tough. Many different characters and bad managers out there. Its not easy, however, the simple fact is that if they liked you then they would have worked with you no matter what flaws you had. Next time watch carefully how you act and what you say.

Finally, I do have a job tip for you. You seem to be an educated man. You can type long paragraphs and your English isnt bad. If I were you, I would look for work in an industry that is booming at the current time. That industry is oil and energy. You may not be a scientist per say, but they still need lots of operational and administrative type people.

So, in short, its all about charisma. How does ugly Ron Geremy do it? If you ever met him, then you would know its all in the way he smiles and treats people. In the same way, you must be just as charasmatic. If you can be charasmatic, then people will work with you no matter how many flaws you have.

I hope this does not sound harsh. Im just trying to help. . .

Here is one job I found on Monster which is just an example of the opportunities to be found at the oil companies right now. The link is to an administrative associate job, however, if you play it right you can turn it into something bigger. There are no specific degrees for what is done in the energy industry. Once your in there, you basically learn the industry and the job.

The real trick now is presenting yourself in such a way as to get the job. Shotgunning resumes by email or fax DOES NOT WORK most of the time. There are a few concepts that have proven useful which are:

- Phonecalling the hiring manager

- Emailing the resume to the company's CEO. Most CEOs have a filter on Outlook that bumps the emails to the secretary. Some of the CEOs actually read all of the email without any filtering. In any event it will be forwarded to human resources. Human resources wont know why they received the resume. They only know that it came from the CEO's office and that its a priority.

- Showing up in person with the resume in hand

The wording of the cover letter and resume must be just right. Even the fonts, etc. Your name should be the largest words on the resume. There should be no spelling errors. You need to be enthusiastic and think of how you can sell yourself.

http://jobsearch.shell.monster.co.uk/getjob.asp?JobID=45229821&AVSDM=2006%2D07%2D05+06%3A08%3A00&Logo=0&co=xshellukx,xshellintfrx,xshellintdex,xshellintnlx,xshellinthkx,xshellintsgx,xshellintausx,xshellsix,xshellbex,xshellczx,xshelldkx,xshellesx,xshellfix,xshelliex,xshellindiax,xshellitx,xshellnox,xshellsw1x,xshellchx,xshellintusx&cy=us&sort=rv&vw=d

Right now there is a shortage of skilled workers and the energy industry is booming.

Words from the shell website www.shell.com

"Whether you’ve been working for three years or thirty, you may find yourself looking for a change. We can offer you both the opportunity to make your next move and the potential to continue progressing in your chosen direction."

You are correct, I meant "not wealthy". I believe once you start enjoying your job and building a life many of the "self awareness" issues will solve themself.

There is an alternative to the shitty weather of the Northeast and there is actually more money flying around...California, Nevada and Arizona. The Southwest is where the money is at now. Sure NY will always be the center of finance but do you really want to live there? Its a beautiful city but compare that to San Diego, Orange County and Bay area and I think Cali wins.

Secondly, oil and energy is booming for now but that will dry up faster than you think once Bush is out of office and our society is forced to look at alternative fuel sources as it relates to environment and agriculture. For now, oil companies will continue to rob the public blind as the pharmaceutical industry does. I truly hope both of those industries dry up but I doubt it as long as we allow lobbyists and campaign donations to control our country.

Southern California is a good place to get laid and have fun. Even if you have little money, there are still many things to do and the women are very willing. The women are a lot better looking in SoCal then many other parts of the country too. I remember taking off of work to drink beer on the beach in PB and watch the women. It was that good.

However, I never really saw the industry. As well, I saw many communities where people lived stacked in houses. There was definately a lack of liquid assets among the population.

The NorthEast has some serious flaws. The 4 seasons can be challenging. While there is a rich influential segment of people, there is also the exact opposite; an impoverished blue collar segment that looks and acts the part. Finding a slender woman in the northeast who appears doable can be very challenging. I have noticed many 18 year old women who seem rather chunky and utterly unappealing in the northeast. If you just look at food, you seem to gain weight unlike SoCal where gaining weight was more challenging. Everything is very expensive. Cramped living conditions and a high amount of congestion. You never truly have any room or privacy. etc.

The true advantage lies under 96th Street in NYC. Its easy to meet very influential people that, under normal circumstances, you would never meet. You walk into a bar after work in the financial district and there is a whos who list in the world of business standing around. CEOS, money managers, etc. Go to some of the local churches and temples and there they are too.

Along the Hudson is Trump tower and several apartments buildings where hundreds of thousands live. People pay $5000+ a month to live in these apartments. Each one of these big money people live in the city and bumping into them is not a problem.

So my verdict is that NYC is an excellent place to either start or to inject steroids into your career. Lots of industry, influential people are just waiting to give you the opportunity, etc.

SoCal is a place to go once established and your bank account full of cash. SoCal is about to go into a downturn. As the ten year bond climbs, the housing market will cool. All those mortgage outfits will be laying off people and many people will be out of work.

My first job in San Diego was at Wells Fargo working as a customer service representative. I was 22 and right out of college then. This was right around the the time of the housing cool down in the 90s. I saw many guys in their 40s-50s applying for this obviously entry-level gig. They were knowledgable and intelligent. The reason why they were there was because the housing market had a little hiccup and many of the mortgage outfits layed off tens of thousands.

As the ten year continues to rise there will be more white haired gentlemen in SoCal fighting for lowly gigs.

In comparison, I have never known NYC to hiccup. Maybe back in the 70s, but its been a roaring bull every year. There is always money and jobs there.

How many times have you had the CEO of the watch company try to sell you the actual watch? I would have never believed it until it happened to me. Only in NYC. . .

(Message edited by ironeagle on July 08, 2006)

Thanks for the many suggestions here. I think the telling comment is, 'You seem pretty bitter about things, which a lot of liberal arts majors are. I'm sure you've heard the old joke "what did the English major say to the business major - Do you want fries with that?" It's kinda true' (Cacotony).

Ouch. But yes. I think the discrepancy between legitimate expectation, and actual realization, is greater (depending on how you define "legitimate") in the category of graduates of small elite private liberal arts colleges than in any other category of North Americans. But I'm still not a victim of pogroms in Rwanda, or a sex slave (*yet), and the prognosis for me (presuming I should undertake appropriate changes as learned in, for example, these discussions) would certainly still be good. So I'm not complaining! And anyway, by that reckoning the only thing I got wrong was my own excessive expectations, so I only have inaccurate dreaming to blame. But they do say, "dream big" ...

I own a framed newspaper editorial cartoon that shows the "revenge of the liberal arts major": a Hollywood-type agent hollers into multiple telephones, "Look, if you're not talking signing bonus" and "you know how hard it is to find an English major with a 3.5?" as a mortar-boarded recent grad looks on. Har har. I also own a keychain that says "do you want fries with that?" Eh, humor as a recourse.

I had no idea my understandings would be SO FAR out of the mainstream. I guess re-fitting new sets of assumptions is something we all have to undergo from time to time--or, more accurately, continually as we strive to understand ourselves--so it's not like I'm doing anything inhuman. But I am doing it so slowly and ineffectually I wonder if I'll realize any benefit from it ...

Looking forward to other discussion of Career and Temperament, and perhaps something to the point of what MY temperament might suggest for the future. I have test scores. Anyone want to compare?

BG

I once was taking some abuse from the girlfriend of one of my roomates in college. She was complaining about the cost of the new College of Business main building and was deriding the fact that we were being "trained" whereas she and her lib arts buddies were being "educated". I asked what that really got her and she said "in the end we'll do better because liberals arts teaches you critical thinking". My reply was "great, so when you're standing in the unemployment line, you can be thinking how critical your situation is with no money and no decent paying job prospects."

"Thanks for the many suggestions here. I think the telling comment is, 'You seem pretty bitter about things, which a lot of liberal arts majors are. . ."

A negative (bitter) attitude will not be helpful in your situation.

If you were going to work closely with someone 8+ hours a day, would you want them to be bitter? Of course not. You would want that person sitting next to you to be positive and confident with themselves.

The first thing people gauge is attitude and motivation when they make decisions of forming business relationship with another. They want to see aggressive motivation, they want to see positive attitudes.

Most career fields are not that exciting and indeed very stressful. A person who displays the least bit of negative behavior now will probably not last or be a low quality worker.

You have to show them that you want it. . .

Yeah, Understood. But I DON'T want it and I'm a BAD actor ...

I actually often did a very good job of being positive in the work environment, and I'm a bit nonplussed that the manner in which I'm expressing myself in this thread (full of complaints, unhappiness, lack of direction, lack of interest) seems to be projecting itself into people's perceptions of how I acted at work. Of course, it's just a subjective question, but I'm not convinced that people would have assessed me as "the negative type" at my former workplace. I'm pretty much into my work and often "get lost" in the problems to be solved and the tasks to be done, I'm a convivial partner, people laugh, the secretaries flirt, I organized the soccer pool, etc. Fun guy? Positive outlook? I think I at least SEEMD to be that way. (We'll never know ...)

But then, in truth, I "wasn't happy" because, well, I had to do work. Work that I didn't want to do. So there IS a kernel of truth in there, about enthusiasm and desire.

Which is why I'm applying myself to the "temperament" question in order to find something I DO want.

Porn star. I want to be a porn star.

Do you have an 8" dick?

Can you maintain wood for 30 minutes while talking to a bunch of guys?

http://www.ishootporn.com

"I'm pretty much into my work and often "get lost" in the problems to be solved and the tasks to be done, I'm a convivial partner, people laugh, the secretaries flirt, I organized the soccer pool, etc. Fun guy? Positive outlook?"

You have pointed out another fatal flaw to the workplace. The first 6-12 months of a job, you must only be seen and not heard. In certain jobs, you need to be seen and never heard no matter how long you have worked there. You should never work too hard when you start a new job as well. Just do as much work as everyone else is doing, nothing more-nothing less.

If you just started a job and seem too into your work then thats a mistake. By working too hard and talking too much you show everyone else up. The workers who are presently there have already established a certain standard. You cannot either go above or below that standard.

Another thing to think about it is the more work you do, the more things that can go wrong. If Person A makes 10 widgets and Person B makes 20 widgets, there is a greater chance that Person Bs widgets will malfunction. That is because Person B has twice the exposure of Person A. Person A might be taking more time, as well, and paying more attention to detail.

From job to job, these rules change. For example, at a sales job, you want to be both seen and heard all the time. You want to be very aggressive and loud from day one doing whatever you can to build your customer base.

However, for a regular salaried or hourly non-sales job, the above rules pretty much apply.

So the moral of the story is that when you first start a job:
1. Its better to be seen then heard (at least for the first 6-12 months of employment).
2. Learn what the work standard is and then perform to that standard (nothing more and nothing less)
3. Dont work too hard or seem too into your work (or else the other workers might be threatened).

The porn star gig is actually harder then most guys think.

More guys could be successful porn stars if they (the producers and directors of the films) would be more sensitive with the guys. For example, have at most one guy in the room (not a crowd of guys that look like they just came back from a sweaty game of pick-up basketball) and use semi-attractive female camera people. Instead of letting the guy try to get hard by himself why not have the female star give him a blow job. She is going to blow him anyway?

Instead, directors and producers of porn films insist on abusing the male help and then hand him a small check at the end of the shoot. If they concentrated on making the workplace more friendly for everyone, then they would be able to make a better quality video.

(Message edited by ironeagle on July 13, 2006)

You can simulate a porn shoot on a mongering trip.

First, go around the mongering location and find 3 mongering males who are over the age of 40. Make sure at least one guy is in his late 50s( or older) and is especially overweight. Have them not shower for a day, make sure at least two of them run a few laps to make them sweaty and have them dress in some gaudy outfits like Hawaiian shirts, jeans and one has to have a Yankees cap and be from Queens.

Then get a hotel room and throw up lots of bright hot lights.

Then get your female and bring her up to the hotel room with the guys.

One of the guys will act as the director constantly telling you what to do and stopping the action suddenly. Another one of the guys will be the cameraman. Then the third guy will be the directors friend who just came along to watch the action and make funny faces.

The female will not be allowed to get you hard. You have to do it yourself and we will give you some porn mags to relax with in the bathroom.

Once the action starts, all of the guys will be talking, making comments and making faces. The director will constantly stop the action and then say something dumb and then restart the camera as if nothing happened.

Now this is a porn shoot.

Ironeagle, you know a lot about how not to fuck up at a workplace. I'm disappointed in myself for not knowing all your useful rules (however flippantly you've expressed some, most contain a rather large kernel of truth) and I wonder, just how YOU figured them out?

Another point I'd make, is that I wasn't "new" at the job, really. I'd been there 2.5 years, with several steps of promotion during that time. And I'll never be the "new kid" ever again, not at 40 years old or more. (Unless someone here has a pill for that.)

But really, the whole paranoid / cynical / backstabby thing that you're describing as manageable, as long as I keep my head up and learn some of those suggestions you're posting? What a hellish existence. Why do you go in for that crap? Wouldn't it make more sense to find a setting, a LIFE, that isn't so damaging to the psyche? For me (especially when you consider that I can only rasonably anticipate less than $20K a year and probably only limited benefits at best) I just wonder, why would I WANT to get involved in that? I'd rather just be a slacker or day laborer, I guess. I dunon. It doesn't seem worth the trade-off for me. Now, if there was a remote chance that I would ever have a living wage, if I actually believed that I could earn a living and have a profit? Then maybe it'd be worth it. But for poverty-level wages? Why would I ...

ROFL @ porn shoot description. Esp. the Yankees hat.

To let off steam, I chose to open the pressure valve. I went mongering (as best as I can, from Jackson MS) this weekend. It made me feel worse, not better. Humph ...

BG


(Message edited by book_guy on July 16, 2006)

"Ironeagle, you know a lot about how not to fuck up at a workplace. I'm disappointed in myself for not knowing all your useful rules (however flippantly you've expressed some, most contain a rather large kernel of truth) and I wonder, just how YOU figured them out?"

I have been fired and asked to resign from quite a few jobs. One day, I sat down with myself and figured out what went wrong. I had blamed them and not myself for the instability. This was a mistake. The work and business world is the same wherever you go. Its one big game and indeed its messed up.

Th biggest sham is with higher versus lower paid workers at companies. Higher paid workers never seem to get fired. Once you are in upper management, you stay there. If things go wrong with the company, then upper management is lauded for its ability to steer the company through tough times and are rewarded with raises and stock options. On the flip side, if you are a lower paid worker, no matter what happens, you receive the perverbial shaft. If everything goes right, then you receive the right to keep your job another 6 months. You might even receive a 2.5 percent raise if they are feeling up to it. If just one small thing goes wrong, then you are fired and replaced by someone who works at a cheaper rate.

You have to be constantly on your guard. It used to be that if you were with a company for a few years then you gained tenure. As long as you did your job and followed the general rules of the workplace, you didnt have to worry. Now if you are a non-union, non-contracted employee then you basically need to be on constant watch and kiss as much ass as you possibly can.

Why do we put up with this hellish existence at work places? You have to open your eyes. These workplaces are by far not the most hellish workplaces in life. Imagine one of these third world mongering locations where women are having sex for a matter of dollars. Imagine Private Snuffy in Iraq who gets shot at and patrols around a hostile area for a smallish salary. Imagine working a job in Beirut? These are really hellish type jobs.

You have skills. You know how to work a computer, your written English is pretty good, etc. You should be able to obtain a job for more then 20k a year.

You need to conduct a "Manhattan Project" on your career. I believe the first step is to look in large coastal cities for opportunities. . .

You said: "You have skills. You know how to work a computer, your written English is pretty good, etc. You should be able to obtain a job for more then 20k a year. "

You think? I've really had a come-uppance in the last few years about that. Maybe there's more to this picture than meets the eye, but honestly, I'm starting to believe that a "living wage" isn't ever going to be a true possibility for me ever. I guess this statement could be interpreted as nothing more than self-sabotaging beliefs, but WHAT am I doing WRONG? Yeesh. So many people I know just "fall into" something and it isn't dead-on hell for them; they aren't fired regularly; and their income isn't laughable. Just normal pals; people who are my peers; they look at me and go, "Wow man I can't figure WHAT the fuck you're doing wrong but by now you've developed a pattern, hunh?" I mean, it's not like I'm an idiot or something. And in fact, many of the little rules you've mentioned are things that I've noticed myself responding to; you get a read on something (don't make other people look bad by working too hard, for example, or any other of your little suggestions) and you kind of "work it," figuring out how much of it to follow, when to risk standing outside it a bit, etc. I'm not a total idiot here.

Also you say, "I believe the first step is to look in large coastal cities for opportunities. . ." I see your point, and the suggestion is duly noted. Moving across the continent is an expensive proposition (though in the long run worth it, of course!) so I'll have to collect the necessary funds somehow. And the boxes ...

More of interest to me would be further discussion of the relation between career and temperament, as the subject of this thread suggests. I'd like to know where I'd be "more happy" -- what fields, what types of workplaces, what sorts of social situations. There's got to be a "better fit" for me than the constant fish-out-of-water I'm experiencing now. Some of the discussion of temperament might have bearing on where I and others of similar type should go; some discussion, on how to act when at work. It seems to me I've never really found a good fit, have always been dealing with people who had a sort of socially elitist "he's not one of us" snobbery against me. Temperament may be a key to that.


(Message edited by book_guy on July 16, 2006)

"Moving across the continent is an expensive proposition (though in the long run worth it, of course!) so I'll have to collect the necessary funds somehow. And the boxes ..."

I have one word, Craigslist. Craigslist has all you need for economical living. Many people are renting rooms out of their houses for cheap due to the perceived housing bust. You can also buy furniture and other things on craigslist for cheap. I found a free office desk on craigslist.


"Some of the discussion of temperament might have bearing on where I and others of similar type should go; some discussion, on how to act when at work. It seems to me I've never really found a good fit, have always been dealing with people who had a sort of socially elitist "he's not one of us" snobbery against me."

We all have things about us that might turn others off. For example, if I went around my office and described to people my trips to Angeles City, this would probably be a turn off and lead to my demise (at work). As well, if I told the work people about my wild single life (i.e. dating multiple women, having sex in the company car, going out at night to bars, etc), this also might be a turn-off.

When you are at work, you are really sitting at a poker table. You can only reveal to them so much about yourself. You can only demonstrate a limited amount of emotion and temperment.

So always have in your head the poker table example whenever you do business. . . You should always be guarded when doing business. Watch what you say, watch what you do. When you are in doubt or uncertain, simply smile and say nothing. Always be courteous, acknowledge everyone even if they do not acknowledge you.

At this point in my life, I feel that the workplace is a great waste of time. You run around and make other people look good. In the end you are "left holding the baby" or the "empty bag". In the true end, you die after having spent a lifetime of satisfying other people. No one remembers your work and effort. Ever walk along an abandoned warehouse or shipyard? People worked very hard at these places at one time and now their efforts have been long forgotten. No one knows or cared who worked there.

Thats why I say outside investment and IRAs are essential. At some point in my life, I desire to lower the flag, sound the cannon and give my final salute. Then retire (and die) in style, grace and pride. I certainly do not want to die while I am working. That would be the ultimate disgrace.

(Message edited by ironeagle on July 17, 2006)

You and I have the same opinion about work, Ironeagle. It's just that I've left it before I planned to retire ...