My novia lives in Sinaloa, and is vacationing with her children and her sister in TJ for the month. I am commuting back and forth (what a nightmare that is). We plan on getting married near the end of the year. I've read the State Dept / INS web sites, but need a bit more advice.

My novia has an expired health card (she no longer works in the bar). I am of the opinion that it would be better if she applies for her Mexican passport in Sinaloa, rather than in TJ, because it may not raise any obvious questions, or does that matter?

We plan on getting married in her hometown, and once that is done, I'll return to the US and start the INS nightmare. Anyone know how simple/complex that is going to be, and what the timeframe is for her visa to be issued?

Once she is allowed entry into the US as my spouse, how long will it be before she is able to travel back and forth to visit her family? Her two children are very close to her sister's kids, and it would be difficult to keep them apart for a couple of years.

Would a Mexican immigration attorney be of any help? Or should I be looking for one in the US?

I'd hate to get married, fumble the application and have her denied.

Any other thoughts or tips?

RJ

RJ,

Let me start off by saying I've never done what you want to do myself, but have looked into it bit. From what I understand getting a Mexican passport is not that easy. There are all kinds of requirements. I would suggest talking to an immigration lawyer on this side. I can be done. My friend did it with his wife (pre-9/11). Good luck. Keep us updated please.

RJ,

From what I've been able to find out in my own research is it would be easier if you brought her over using a Fiancee Visa then married her here. If you marry her in MX, you have to jump through whatever hoops the MX gov't requires in order for you to marry one of their citizens THEN you can file an Alien Relative petition with the INS.

Haven't filed any paperwork myself, but have read and been told Fiancee Visa maybe a 6 month process while Alien Relative petition could take more than a year.

Hope this helps. Good Luck!

She will be denied if she has gotten a health card in the past 10 years. I mean denied for the visa.

Getting a Mexican passport is ridiculously easy (if you are a Mexican, that is). Getting a US visa for that passport is near impossible.

Applying for a visa from Sinaloa would be the better idea, especially if she has been working a legit job for some time, and can demonstrate roots in the Sinaloa community.

As for Ahora's comment, well, I know chicas with health cards with US visas, so that can't be right.

Keemo is absolutely correct. Apply for a fiancee visa and bring her here. She will be sent a packet to the nearest Mexican consulate to her home where she will then get the required documents and be issued a visa to visit the US and get married within 90 days. She can't leave the US during that time. After being married you go to the INS and they issue a permanent residency visa, and she can travel again. Do the ceremony all over again in Mex. I've been their and done that.

Everyone I know who marries in Mexico first and then tries to come to the US waits years.

Ahora007
"She will be denied if she has gotten a health card in the past 10 years. I mean denied for the visa."

I've heard this before and always had the question, how do the puta-bar chicas that have visa get them?

RJ I have about a dozen friends who are married to Mexicanas and live here in the U.S. The finance visa is the correct way to go. An imigration lawyer on this side can speed it up a little but expect to pay the maggot about $3,000 to do so. There are several on the internet if that is what you want to do.

An ex-favorita has a health card and was issued a visa. However, I don't know whether it's a student or fiance visa as she is taking English classes in SD and no longer works in the bars. I agree w/previous posts: get an immigration lawyer and get married in the US. Buena suerte.

RJ,

There was a pretty good thread posted in June on this topic under: Brazil/Advice/Bringing A Girl From Brazil. Check out the info and links found there.

Until last year, the K1 fiancee visa was the only way to get your foreign wife into the US without long wait times. If you got married overseas then applied for a visa, it could take two years or more to obtain permission for her to enter the US.

Now, the laws have changed. There is a new K3 visa that speeds up the process and may actually be better than the K1, because it permits travel in and out of the country - which is restricted under the K1.

Despite what many people advise, I DEFINITELY recommend using an attorney or a commercial visa service to help you with the process. There is plenty of info on the internet. Fees run between $300 and $1,500 on average.

The health card is a potential problem if she has worked within the past ten years. GET ADVICE ON THIS. If you fail to disclose it and INS finds out about it, it's fraud and you will have trouble ever getting the visa. On the other hand, if you disclose it it's grounds to deny the visa. So, be careful how you handle this.

Buena Suerte,
TG

Explorer,

Where are you going your info about mex passports? I have spoken with several Mexican citizens and they all tell me that you must have (any of the following) a business, home, ton of money in the bank, etc. to make sure you come back to Mexico when traveling abroad.

On health card, if you disclose it, then it is an automatic disqualification, so there is no point of doing it. What I was told was, Mexico does not have a centralized database for healthcards. If a woman goes to the American consulate in TJ for a visa request, though, they might/could/would run a search with the local health department. This is near impossible at Sinaloa.

Harold Johnson

You're confusing the passport a mexican document with a visa which is issued by the U.S. or another foreign country. Mexico could care less whether its citizens ever come back. If they stay abroad they will undoubtably contribute to the Mexican economy by sending money home.

This confusion may stem from the fact that here on the border many Mexicans used to refer to their border crossing cards issued by the U.S. government as 'pasaportes.'

As for health cards, in the past it has been relatively easy to present false documents to get one. The health department's priority was testing not verifying the real identity of the applicant.

I have seen some employees at the consulate just being lazy and dont even check some persons paperwork so it is possible to slip through. However there is a database and if a check is done they will see that she has had a health card and she will be denied. Some working girls do not have health cards and also there are some that got their visas before they got their healt cards. Now the next problem is getting the chica over here and then marrying her. A law is being made to prevent that. It was actually going to take place about a yeaR AGO. iF AT THAT TIME YOU WATCHED THE NEWS YOU WOULD OOOPS have seen tons of people getting married and going to an immigration office to apply before the deadline which has now been extended while in court. That law would mean that if you are in the U.S illegaly and attemt to get married and start your INS paperwork, Then the person that is illegal would have to go back to their country of origin untill the paperwork was approved.

Mexican passports are *easy* to get, I've done it, or rather been with a chica that had little money who went through the process. As long as a Mexican has the standard documents (credentiale, acto de nacimiento, etc) the biggest hurdle is paying the 700 pesos for the passport.

TO SUMMARIZE THE DISCUSSION:

a) Get her a passport

b) Marry her in the USA on a fiance visa or the equivalent.

c) Don't mention the health card - if you do, she can't get in.

d) Hire an attorney if all else fails.

"the biggest hurdle is paying the 700 pesos for the passport."

Actually the current fees are (in pesos) one year- 315, 5 years-830, 10 years-1335

how bout 20 years >?

ReyTJ mentioned in the past it was relatively easy to get a health card with false documents. This is true in the present as well. The same goes for IFE cards. Both only require a birth certificate and maybe a receipt showing where she lives. The receipt can have anyones name on it and birth certificates would be extremely easy to forge.

I think that they are a little more strict on ID's required to get health cards now. I know that if she does have a health card in the next 10 years the consulate does share that data base as an agreement with mexico. She does not have to say anything.

First off, many thanks to those that have participated in this discussion.

My main (and obvious) concern is over the health card issue. She quit working a few months back, but worked previously, with a card issued in her true name, off and on for about 5 years. She has had no contact with the police locally for any reason. While we understand how the disclosure would impact the issuance of the visa, I'm still not clear on if (or under what circumstances) that information is centralized and accessed by the consulate, particulary if our process will be done in her home state 1000 km from the border.

As far as her roots in her hometown, she owns a small house that she built on land that she purchased in a very poor colonia. I have NO idea what kind (if any at all) of title exists on that house). Most of her family still lives in that same area, and she has one child in school there. She does not have a job, nor has she worked in her hometown for some time. I'm not certain why,or how much bearing that would have on issuing a fiance visa, as her intentions are different than that of a tourist visa, where one must show economic/social ties to Mexico.

She would prefer to marry in Sinaloa, and apply for the K-3 visa, and that was my first thought as well, but know I'm not so sure. I will consult with a local US attorney for his opinion. Any other thoughts?

RJ

1 - A Mexican passport, which is issued by Mexico in Mexico is easy to get, as several people have pointed out. Have her get one IN HER HOME TOWN, NOT IN TJ!

2 - A VISA is a document issued by the U.S. that allows her to enter and stay in the U.S. for a specified period of time. Apply for a Fiancée VISA from the U.S. Consulate IN HER HOME TOWN. DO NOT EVER EVEN MENTION THAT SHE HAS BEEN IN TJ!!! EVER! Make SURE she understands that. (I am assuming her health card was issued in her real name (mistake number one) in TJ, and NOT in her home town/state. The rules are changing, so you *might* want to talk to an attorney who specializes in this area. IMHO it is not really necessary IF you and she are willing to do the work and spend the time to figure it out. It can cost several thousand dollars, and IMHO is no faster.

3 - When she fills out the VISA paperwork she will be asked if she has ever engaged in sex work of any kind, or prostitution. She will have to lie. Note that she will be swearing UNDER OATH that she is telling the truth on her application. Bottom line - DO NOT GET CAUGHT! MAKE SURE she understands that if they discover or suspect she HAS worked as a prostitute SHE WILL BE DENIED. This is SPECIFICALLY listed as a reason PREVENTING the State Dept from issuing her a VISA. The U.S. Consulate AUTOMATICALLY assumes ANYONE with a health card is or was a prostitute, BTW.

4 - In Mexico the health cards are issued and administered locally. Mexico does NOT have, to my knowledge, a national system for tracking health cards. In TJ the U.S. Consulate can (and usually does, in my experience) checks locally and WILL discover she has/had one. IF they discover this, she will NEVER (for at least 10 years, per the U.S. law - but in reality never) get a U. S. VISA. This is in part because the U.S. Government has computerized the VISA process and WILL record that she is a prostitute, so even if she then tries to apply someplace else she will be denied a VISA. Make SURE she understands this! I know at least two chicas who applied in TJ and now cannot get in to the U.S.

5 - BE SURE she understands - NO MENTION of prostitution or TJ!

6 - Work out - IN ADVANCE - all the details of your stories: how and where and when you met, when you have visited her, etc. Keep your plane tickets, etc. Take pix of you together - preferably showing spending time together over a long time frame (a friend once celebrated Christmas in July, just so he could take pictures....)

7 - Since 9/11 the process seems to take longer, but still is your best shot, IMHO. It was taking 6 months or so to complete the process of getting the fiancée VISA, and another few months after you get married to get her paperwork complete. It is a SLOW process with lots of BS to deal with. If you are not the type who can deal with asshole civil servants get a lawyer to do it for you. They WILL treat you and her like shit, and you WILL get pissed off more than once. Plus, be sure to take #12 to heart and the P.S.> ate the end of this post.

8 - If you contact your Senator or Representative they MAY be able to get the process moving IF you run into delays. Note that the Consulate people WILL be somewhat angry if you do this, but it can help if you get stuck. It is especially helpful if you are friends with a Senator. (I once got a call from a Consular official telling me how much of an asshole I was for having a Senator who was a family friend call his office, and that it was NOT going to speed up the process of getting a VISA issued. I explained that the Senator was a family friend, that I was best buddies with his son, and that I had simply been venting while visiting at his home. We had been working on getting the VISA for 8 months. It was issued two days later.)

9 - DO NOT LET HER MENTION PROSTITUTION!

10 - If she cannot show what she has done for the past few years to support herself - which actually is less important for a fiancée VISA than a travel VISA - you can get documents in Mexico to build a history for her. Expect to pay some money, and get the real deal. And also weigh the potential risk of her getting caught. This should NOT be necessary as long as she has family that lives in her home town.

11 - The chicas who think this thru ahead of time almost ALWAYS get their health card in a fake name. It is very simple to get fake ID in Mexico. I know many chicas who have papers in two or three names - voter cards, drivers licenses, and of course health cards.

12 - MAKE SURE SHE UNDERSTANDS NOT TO MENTION PROSTITUTION OR TJ!

PS - The Consular people you will deal with have HUGE latitude in issuing her VISA. HUGE LATITUDE. And many of them are not exactly the salt of the earth, and chances are they really don't give a damn about you or her. Keep in mind that the person you are talking to may seem like a lowly peon and an asshole, but they hold your future in their hands. DO NOT FORGET THIS!!

First off, many thanks to those that have participated in this discussion.

My main (and obvious) concern is over the health card issue. She quit working a few months back, but worked previously, with a card issued in her true name, off and on for about 5 years. She has had no contact with the police locally for any reason. While we understand how the disclosure would impact the issuance of the visa, I'm still not clear on if (or under what circumstances) that information is centralized and accessed by the consulate, particulary if our process will be done in her home state 1000 km from the border.

As far as her roots in her hometown, she owns a small house that she built on land that she purchased in a very poor colonia. I have NO idea what kind (if any at all) of title exists on that house). Most of her family still lives in that same area, and she has one child in school there. She does not have a job, nor has she worked in her hometown for some time. I'm not certain why,or how much bearing that would have on issuing a fiance visa, as her intentions are different than that of a tourist visa, where one must show economic/social ties to Mexico.

She would prefer to marry in Sinaloa, and apply for the K-3 visa, and that was my first thought as well, but know I'm not so sure. I will consult with a local US attorney for his opinion. Any other thoughts?

RJ

1)she owns house in hometown needs title papers
2)go hometown lawyer or doctor and pay him to draw up proof of employment papers.
3)go to local mexican counsolet and apply for tourist visa dress nice, be profesional.
4)never been to tj,want to see the sights in the usa, never bring up health cards they don't share that information.
5)fly in usa get married then go to the ins, find cheap consultant to handle paperwork.

randall

So Curious should she mention prostitution when applying for a visa ?

Just Curious

Milkman

My source of information is Curious, so I don't want you to think you have two independent sources.

Good luck.

So, Curious, is it not a good idea to show $10 photos of my GF and me taken in CC as proofs of our long-term relationship?

All right, now I can't say I met my GF in a whorebar.

So, what story should I make up? I traveled to Michoacan mountains to do a research on the monarca butterfly migration. As I was taking pictures of butterflies, a young Mexican stopped by and offered to take a picture of me and butterflies together. I thanked her, and then, after chatting a while, we discovered that we shared common interests in biology, books, arts, architecture, and classical music. That's how I met my future wife!

For reference, here's the link to the Department of State Visa Services...

http://travel.state.gov/visa_services.html#dv

I just talked to a friend of mine who works for the INS. He says the whole process is changing, and expect delays over the next 12 months as the changes are implemented. He says there will be changes in the law, changes in the procedures and forms, changes in the way they apply the rules, and changes in the way they enforce the rules.

It seems the folks that run things in Washington are upset at all the recent publicity about how they have screwed up - little things like issuing VISAs to student pilots who crashed planes on 9/11 months after they died in those terrorist acts, etc.

Student VISAs, which have always been one of the easiest VISAs to get for a chica IF she had completed the equivalent of high school in Mexico, will be MUCH harder to get, and will require that they be a full time student.

Enforcement will be much tougher - follow up will be a lot better than in the past. Students will be checked to see that they really are full time students. Fiancée VISAs are still an OK way to go, according to him - BUT expect more through investigation both before and after it is issued. For example, there will be 2AM phone calls to see if both you and she are home in bed at that time. Maybe even actual bed checks - an agent showing up at your door at 3AM to check on your married status (ie: are you living together, sleeping in the same bed, etc.).

He says expect 6 to 8 months or more, depending on the changes that happen in that time before she gets a VISA, then up to 18 months beyond that after you are married for her to get her residency permit.

His suggestion is to get started ASAP.

As far as he is aware, Mexico still does not have a centralized database of health cards. Presently I have no other way to check on this. You may want to have your chica inquire about this, but I would caution her NOT to give them her name or home town! She could ask in TJ if they share that info with anyone else.

As to Randalls advice to get her a tourist VISA and have her come visit and get married, that will result in a longer process. First, getting a tourist VISA is a LOT harder than getting a fiancée VISA. Secondly, she will be forced to go back to Mexico while you apply for her residency permit. Getting married here will NOT allow her to stay (legally anyway) and if she stays anyway, that could lead to her being denied entry in the future even if she is already married to you.

The idea of contacting a lawyer about a K- 3 might be a good idea. My friend seems to think that is a longer process, but it might be worth looking at.

Oh, and Milkman - not if she wants to get the VISA!

Curious, If she was wise and the Tijuana health card is NOT in her real name, is there another reason not to use her Tijuana address?

curious, i did it no problem, no one has to go back to mexico as long as ins papers are filed while visa is current. my wife and child both recived permanent residence cards last week.

randall

CF:

I suggest only using TJ as an address IF she really is from TJ (ie: born and raised there) OR if she has family that is native to TJ. (State Dept asshole: "And just WHY did you come to TJ? When? How have you supported yourself while living in TJ?")

In my (admittedly limited) experience the Consulate in TJ looks into young chicas backgrounds more carefully in TJ, and imposes tougher standards on them (at least for tourist VISAS). They seem to assume a lot of people come to TJ in an effort to enter the US and that fewer of those people plan to return to Mexico after their visit to the US.

If she is going for a student VISA or fiancée VISA it might not make any difference.

Randall - I am Curious - a couple of questions:

1a - What kind of VISA did she have to enter the US?

1b - How long was it good for?

1c - Did it expire before she got her residency card?

1d - How long did it take for her to get this VISA?

2 - When did she apply for residency? (ie: how long did it take for her to get her card?)

3 - She is a Mexican citizen?

TIA

Just
Curious

Randall, I'm curious too. If she was in the US on a tourist visa and didn't fall under one of the old amnesty programs, I don't understand how she pulled this off. It clearly violates the regs, and I don't know of anyone who would advise this as a planned strategy.

curious.
1a)R-B1/B2 (i think, will double check)
1b)10YR
1c)no
1d)1 day,Mexico city 2) april 2000 (2 months temp.- 2yr permanent)
3) yes

Tampagringo, my wife has used this with her brother who also got married to us citizen, and four others to get visas,a brother just two months ago. They must have proof of property,
show profesional employment(which can be bought)act and dress profesional for interview and flash some cash for visa. Hell, we just got my wife a real college diploma from the principle for $180,out of her home town.
To everyone,
Please see a consultant, don't rely on what i have said, but it worked for us.
Randall

I just talked to my wife and i need to bring up the fact that her brother who recived his tourist visa 2 months ago, had to wait 5 months after he filed, for an interview in mexico city. It then took 2 months to recive his visa as they do not issue them on the spot as in my wifes case.
Randall

It is my understanding that the health card issue in the rest of Mexico is a non-issue. In NL, the health cars is a slip of paper issued weekly. This information is privileged as it is in the US and can not be accessed by the INS. If she keeps her mouth shut there should be no problemo

Well, in TJ they say that too, BUT I know two chicas who got "caught" because during the VISA process the local agency in TJ disclosed that they did indeed have health cards.

Better safe than sorry, IMHO....

OK one last time. The consulates have health records from all of mexico dealing with prostitutes period.

Are you saying that a Consulate in GDL, for example, has health card records from TJ and other border towns?

Just
Curious

It ain't possible! Otherwise, proive it!

you can prove it by trying to get a whore a passport.

BorderJumper: What isn't possible? I am Curious...

Ahora007: But of course I already have. Multiple times. That's why I am asking about this.

The first zona gal I helped get a VISA was very naive. She came to TJ using her real name, got her health card under her real name, even worked using her real name (and got posted about extensively under her real name!). She went home to GDL and applied for a travel VISA. Eight months later I kept my promise by taking her to Disneyland.

To date I have not personally known one gal who got "discovered" as having a health card (in TJ) when she did not apply for her VISA in TJ.

Just
Curious

Hi guys
I am Milkman
Curious take me to disneylandia

My gay buddy has a semi novia in Romania.
For the first time she was turned down by the us consulate to come back to the USA on a work visa.

She also had 3 of her friends turned down.
They said to her new limits are being imposed on fuzzy foreigners entering the usa.

They were even told to bring lots more paperwork than before , School papers , work papers everything.

I wonder if this will effect mexicans ?
I doubt it as Fox and Bush have anal sex sessions together

Milky

As I said they slipped through because some one was not doing their job.

Ahora, I have a question for you since you seem to have some sort of professional knowledge about this subject. I've never seen a health card and I am wondering what is on the health card that identifies the chica. Names certainly aren't unique. Are there pictures? And if so are you saying that there is a Mexican health department computer database with digitized pictures that US officials have access to and the identification process is based upon picture comparisons.

Just wondering.

Ahora007: What you said is an amazing indictment of the entire VISA process and a testament to the stupidity of the people running it, if accurate.

I have personal knowledge of enough TJ working girls who have gotten VISAs away from TJ without ever having their health cards detected that the Consular people must be a bunch of idiots, if the reason none of these women got caught was because "they slipped through".

One case in particular the chica was required to produce documents and go back with more three times, including letters from the local police chief and the mayor. Yet they never picked up on the fact she had health cards issued in her name in TWO places in Mexico (not counting the ones she had issued in a fake name).

If the system is staffed with people as incompetent as you suggest, we might as well just take the fence down and stop the sham now, and save all that money!!

Curious

I know you are being sarcastic here, but in a proper perspective, letting a few prostitutes slip into the US is NOT a big deal.

Is it possible to get their addresses in the U.S.?

Someone needs to look after these women. You know like being a sponser.